Gadgetory

hello everybody and welcome to the Friday debate podcast episode number three discussing topics and android every single week i am of course your host Joshua Vergara what's going on everybody and I'm joined by our usual panel we have andrew grush who is also the architect of the friday debate every single week on android authority calm we also have writer Jonathan Feist here and our appt guy on YouTube Joseph Hindi how's it going everybody hello Internet hello nice as always we get together every single week and talk about a particular topic one that we post on android thorny com on which a lot of our writers give their thoughts upon and we made it into a podcast form so we hope you guys have been enjoying the podcast thus far we are now in our third episode officially since we did a pilot over in at CES but last week we weren't able to record because while not the least reasons where I was in China covering a media tour with Huawei which turned out to be a pretty good time and you can see those videos obviously I did some very nice vlog style video so you can kind of see our experience rather than just so you know watch some canned videos they were they really did a great job just sort of bringing us out and we got to see their canvas so thanks to huawei out there but also it was super bowl sunday on sunday and even though we planned on postponing it until then unfortunately we all opted for the bad food and watching the game i wanted to pop this question out there did you guys his team win i watch hockey okay so I mean did anybody watch any of you and I watched I was really rooting for the particular team I just think it's fun to watch Superboy ok so you guys didn't really put down like any bets or anything like I knew call that one right like 500 bucks in a pool or something it was amazing no I here's the thing I just moved to Portland Oregon and you know Seattle is kind of our rival especially when it comes to the college leagues and NFL of course is a different story they have the big league team in Seattle so that the kind of my team and so yes my team lost yeah I feel the exact same way that we don't have to get into it but I do have to just sort of echo everyone else's frustration over what that last play was I was like oh my god that was the worst call in history well not history but but in any case I just wanted to do a little bit of housekeeping and checking in with everybody of course you can find our podcast all over the web so if you are on YouTube right now watching where we put it up for you guys as courtesy for your ears what you can also do is find us on all the different podcast channels you can find us on iTunes on stitcher I'm very close to final not using the Soundcloud channel but of course you can use the podcast aggregation applications if you want to do it that way which is one of the best ways to listen to the Friday debate podcast actually so why don't we go ahead and just jump into this week's topic we're talking about Android one and if you don't know what that is we'll go ahead and give you a brief primer on it but here is our long-form version of the Friday debate topic that we put up on our site and we're talking about right now part of the alert of Android one was that it would bring faster almost Nexus like updates to lower end phones promising an affordable offering that would still provide a decent Android experience with the slow update to lollipop though and the fact that the sales numbers are reportedly not all that high is Android one delivering on that promise can Android one be a success or with so many other affordable devices is it a largely unnecessary program so we're going to be discussing Android one its implications on the market because they're supposed to be low end phones but the first thing I wanted to pose to everybody is we're all obviously familiar with Android one what it was supposed to be able to do but for just a brief primer about where it was supposed to be going and the reason why maybe us here in the West like in the u.s. don't really know too much about it how about brushy once you give a sort of your brief overview of Android one okay so Android one was never really meant for the West markets it was meant as a way to bring uh cheap phones to the next you know a billion or whatever is five billion whatever they quote people and it was it wasn't so much about cheap phones it was about creating competitively priced devices that had faster updates I mean you have these low end phones in india china you know throughout Asia basically and Africa as well anyway they tend to be stuck with the same version of Android for their entire life cycle and so the idea was to create something that was maintained by Google Google will provide the updates and it would create basically we get phones that had that Nexus like experience stock Android and we wouldn't be stuck with these old versions so it would provide the best experience possible instead of people getting you know something that basically never changes yeah definitely and the the whole idea that I mean updates are always a hot button topic for anybody that uses an Android device and I think right bright before our podcast we had a little bit of a pre-show thing going on we were talking about if all of our devices are on lollipop at this point obviously we're using anywhere between mid to high-end phones but just putting this out there like let's say feisty the devices that you use um are you on lollipop on the vast majority of them at least no not at all majority are still jellybean 442 oh wow jellybean okay well remember he uses a lot of low-end devices huh hey jellybean I'm sorry kid yeah okay that's not a parrot ation here sorry yeah I was about to say everyone raised her eyebrows were like wait a minute you uh you know Moto G though right so your Moto G should be on lolly yes the Moto G is up to date and of course that right now is my daily driver but the remaining I'm a remainder of the phones are running older OS okay which arguably isn't a bad thing considering all the bugs for lollipop but that's a conversation for another podcast yeah yeah basically how about you Joe what are you rocking and are they all on lollipop um I have four devices currently including my watch and yeah all of my devices are running lollipop but that's only because I mean you know I have a nexus in LA and video shield tablet which got official updates but my note 3 is rooted so I got you know i'm running a i think it's a note for port right now hmm and it's it's actually pretty terrible but it's functional so i'm gonna keep it yeah see so that's the whole idea behind making something that an ecosystem i should say like android one where you will be getting those those updates people all around the world supposedly will be able to get there there hands on the true Android experience no matter what the price bracket might be you but you know like where she said we're not really looking at android one as a real competitor to like the super low-end devices that are super affordable let's put it that way but you know I look through some of the Android one devices that are available in there are quite a few of them Gruchy correct me if I'm wrong but the actually one of the main marketing points of Android one was that its devices we're going to provide features that actually a lot of high-end phones don't have like dual sim microSD card slot and you know various uh oh like quad core processing even though that's pretty much ubiquitous at this point but I guess my question that i'm going to ask is is android one a program that is made to be successful or is it really just google sort of trying to extend the reach even farther um on my end of things like I think it is I think it's supposed to be that thing where you know Google is extending their reach the problem is that it I know that it's not available in a lot of places yet everywhere I keep reading you know it's it's set to launch in these other places sometime soon but really it's like last time I checked it's only available in a couple of countries like India and I think there's one or two more there's in India Bangladesh Nepal Sri Lanka Indonesia and I think one of the models launched or maybe two in the UK are those like that's about it are they actually available there because are they set to launch their so well uh Indonesia is still launching um but the others i think all have it i believe i don't quote me on that one hundred percent but i believe i know that one of the main markets that it was supposed to come out and was like say India and yeah an India does have I think they only have like a couple though right exactly and one of the reasons why we're talking about is because a recent story came out that Android one is supposed to come out in Indonesia very soon and on top of all of that you know the the other one the rumored not rumored but like the the small leak I should say is that these devices are the first ones to get an update to lollipop 25.1 which was why Android one was also the rest back into the into the limelight a little bit because well everyone's kind of following the lollipop train right now okay but this is the thing though the sales numbers haven't really been all that great what is it I'm questioning it's not necessarily a question for the panel but I'm just sort of questioning whether or not Google knew what the strategy was supposed to be for Android one and you know in sochi in developing markets developing countries where you should be able to sort of get a really big foot in the door with affordable phones if they're not selling very well could that possibly be because we have enough other phones on the market that are affordable anyway well you know these things take time to you know to develop I mean I'm sure that you know Android one was something that was in development in Google's you know brain machine or whatever they're brainstorming it for a couple of years and you know when you look at 2013 you know there weren't a lot of super cheap smartphones I think like what the Moto X hadn't come out yet you know the Moto G hadn't come out yet there wasn't a whole lot going on in the you know and the mid-range and low range phones you know outside of having phones that had super old operating systems that never got updated so like hey let's do this thing Android one and then by the time they came out with it now we have the moto x the 1+1 the Moto G you know and all these other super affordable phones essentially everybody beat Google to the punch here and I think that's I thought the whole reason obviously but I think that's at least a little bit part of it is it you know they're already you know low-cost phones that are getting updates pretty frequently and you know so what's the point of having Android one if these other phones exist well i mean the the question that comes to mind how low is low enough then when it comes to the price because we're talking about phones like though you mentioned the 1+1 the mode of wax even the Moto G let's put the mono gene that makes which are still let's say at best sub $200 phones if price really does matter to people that say in developing markets then oh yeah I mean know what I mean like the crush you go ahead well you know it's we have to realize to us it's like we don't see a lot like if we look at a foamer like oh that's 150 that's 200 that's 250 to us that's they're all pretty close to the same price but you got to realize that some of these countries are only making like 80 or 90 bucks a month you know and so when you're making that little bit of money and obviously I might be wrong on their number but I've heard that quota before for certain parts of Asia um anyway when you're making you know sub a hundred dollars a month you bet your you bet your you know but I did yeah i'm trying not because uh $55 you know there's phone to go as low as $55 $35 two hundred dollars doesn't seem like a big deal to us but they are for them you know that's a huge deal and i could understand that if i was only you know and so i think two people in the western markets were like oh there's not a huge difference between you know a phone that's 180 iphone that's 200 but if you were making a lot less i think that twenty dollars would make a huge difference to you you know yeah I do i do agree with that and you know it's this is this is a mark this is a particular system that android that nat that's re not android that google put out android one that might might kind of go over the heads of a lot of people in the west which is kind of the reason why i was excited to talk about it um feisty do you like your thoughts on Android one is there do you think that there's a reason why Android one is not really catching on is it really just a time game or did end did Google get get swooped on the whole idea of making really affordable phones well exactly what you say it is part of it no doubt by all means there's other phones out there other phone makers that are doing the same kind of thing now I've never had the chance to touch one of these phones I wonder if in this case inexpensive means cheap and certainly that's a debate for any phone from any maker but you know that's that's one of my concerns where you know if they're all so to speak cheap devices then maybe that twenty dollars makes that huge difference but what I really think it comes down to is availability even here in the Western market you know when the Nexus line of devices started launching you really couldn't you couldn't go into the verizon the attn star and pick out a Nexus device you had to know what you're looking for go to the google play store if android one was in every store at every carrier I think it might be uh you know a little bit better off mmm and now that that brings you to another idea I did think about that that maybe the e-commerce channel for Android one might be what might be hindering it because now far be it for me to say that I know how carriers operate in places like Indonesia or India but I would imagine having been to you know that side of the world at least that you know that the smartphone has become rather ubiquitous and there's so much choice in the market now that it does come down to availability I do agree with you on that but if an Android one phone is supposed to be let's say because I'm looking at the website right now and I what one comment I do want to make is that the Android one website android com / 10 if the program is supposed to be geared towards developing countries the website sure doesn't make it look like it's supposed to be I don't know if you guys have ever looked at the website but it's it's incredibly colorful and they're all these they're all these pictures on the website that show people using these particular phones and places where you know you could probably afford something more and I don't know just kind of irked me a little bit but I will say this the first time that the day that Android one was announced obviously was at Google i/o this past June I was super excited for it I thought that it was a great way of consolidating yeah I thought it was a great way of consolidating what's supposed to be a market that everyone in the world it's almost like the internet now you know the Internet is almost like a right for people to have it's becoming that ubiquitous and if smartphones are going to be the main way that people use it which it is in places in the east and this is a great way to have an entry point for it but it's a little disheartening to hear that's not really going in that route krushi when you when it was a when it was announced what were you looking forward to in terms of Android one did you really think it was going to live up to his promise I really did and I felt that that the idea was great um I still feel the idea is great and I don't think it's dead i think we're talking about like it's dead and i don't think it is um the problem is that there was big ambitions with the idea of bringing it but it hasn't lived up to it I think there's a few reasons that like we haven't touched on for one thing now I'm just speaking from the few i've seen but let's take for instance that in India there's the carbon Sparkle five I think it's called and the micromax canvas a one and then there's a spice dream I can't remember exactly what it is anyway there's remember the spice 1 yeah yeah there's there's three phones there that i just mentioned they all have 4.5 inch displays with 854 x 480 resolution they all have the same exact one point three gigahertz quad-core mediatek chip they all have one gigabyte of RAM they all have the same storage everything is the exact same they're boring even the aesthetics are pretty much right on with one another and so hell if I have three devices that look the same and then I have something like a yaw me or I have a you know even the micromax's that are not from this line yeah i'm gonna go with something else because he's a boring you know its stock android and i'm a stock android advocate but you know there's nothing that defines these phones is separate other than the brand so if you're a fan of carbon or your fan of micromax but that's about it you know there's no difference and i think that's part of the failing is that I don't think the Android one phones we've seen are worth getting excited about for customers and then the fact that lollipop took so long doesn't help because that's supposed to be the big draw is that hey these are similar price to what you can get here but they also have the newest version of Android well no they don't because Andrew lollipops now set from one sold and it's not here you know and so I feel like I still think that Android one it's a it's a great concept I just feel like we had Dave run into some hiccups but i do believe google could still turn around and i think Android one could still be a big program do you might disagree with you just a little bitch oh by all means perfect up now the concept i like it but I don't think it's dead on now my how I remember the google i/o was basically they were on stage they said we're going to give the manufacturers a blueprint for a device mm-hmm which is pretty much why we have the exact same devices for each one because they're just following Google's friend now that being said that that says to me that Google's blueprint the Google's overall overview of this project is a little bit off and I like it and I and I think it can go places but right now I think it's a little bit on and i don't know i don't disagree with you actually i said that i think there's potential and i still do but yeah definitely now that said they gave a blueprint but they gave specifics they said hey you can use this you can use that it's not like you have to use the exact same chip they gave a range that they wanted to get within a price range but everyone just decided to do the same cookie cutter approach and so that's not totally google's fault but yeah i think that the program was a little limited in the way it was approached and I have a theory I could be totally wrong but I think that the fact that we're seeing 5.1 arrived on you know on Android one speaks to the fact that even like advice to know you mentioned you know elsewhere when we've had conversations and stuff anyway you've mentioned that you felt that lollipops a little bit you know sluggish let's put it that way um and I think that that was part of the reason is i think that in its current form with its bugs and with everything that they just felt it couldn't be on there and so they needed to make some changes and I think that's why we're seeing 5.1 launch with Android one is that it's hopefully address some of those issues like I said that's just speculating but you know adding to that speculation I wonder if 5.1 is sadly an offshoot of for king of android or 5.2 and that stream will continue on for you know the bigger the flagship devices and the 5.1 will go to the lower end well or slower lower you know smaller hardware de but there's already talk about testing of the 5.1 update on Nexus so I don't think that's the case I don't think google would do that anymore you know they did that whack in the day with like honeycomb but I think we're past that huh Nico hope so has anyone used honeycomb that I it was a it was interest I still have a functioning logitech revue that runs honeycomb whoa logitech revue holy crap yeah well I mean we mentioned honeycomb and you know we can I know immediately what comes to mind of the different devices that used to rock that kind of stuff I mean I'm on I'm on a android like 1.6 right now using the g one from my flashback series I don't know I thought that lollipop knowing that it's supposed to be compatible with let's say lower end devices both do supposed to maybe it was a wishful thinking for me to think that that I could easily put that on a classic android phone no I i'm using a phone right now that could be considered what today's android one phones are and it still has the android market like i can I can't even use the freaking play store to get the essential applications that I need what if you know nostalgia is is not a very big thing in the tech world if you you know it's always about the cutting edge it's not really about nostalgia and going back to your roots but you know those that that's that's one of the caveats I have when it comes to lollipop is that you know it probably should have had it available for if there are versions of it I would work on any device pretty much then you know maybe make that make that reach like just so far that even classic phones could be used so we're mentioning a lot here that lollipop has some issues and maybe that's something that we will actually dive into in a little bit here actually actually think I want to sort of hash that out I want to hear so what your guys thoughts are on that but I thought came to mind could it be that these companies are creating the cookie cutter devices for Android one or even the the really cheap ones that they're making that are not part of Android one could it be that they're making the cookie cutter versions and just sort of their sort of focusing on the bottom line because there's probably not a huge amount of profit to be had in a phone that lets say is only about a hundred dollars am I am I out of line by saying that no I mean there they are in fact businesses and do in fact care about the bottom line so I mean you're probably right on there at least to an extent but I'm sure that there's probably something that's been worked out between you know these companies in Google or it's like you guys build the hardware you know we'll do the software and you know if something goes wrong you know I think that Google's like paying these you know these companies for every phone that they make but you know I'm sure that there's something there to help I encourage them to do to continue to do stuff like this ya know I think the biggest problem like feisty said earlier was its distribution really I mean you just you can't find these things anywhere except for what on the internet right like these aren't being sold in stores and in carrier stores and stuff like that yeah I don't believe I mean it though but I don't know much about that aspect to be honest well the thing is I've spoken to a lot of uh of Indian people who you know who use Android and a lot of them don't have things like credit cards and can't make purchases online and uh because that they use that and this is a whole different conversation but I'm gonna bring up for just a moment but that's that's the reason that they give for pirating applications like when the monument valley numbers came out there like oh yeah no we pirated the out of this because we don't have credit cards to pay for it you know week we're not allowed to buy it so you know but we still want to play anyway so you know a part of me thinks like you know if the main way of distribution is online and you know a lot of people in that in those countries don't have credit cards don't have debit cards and you know don't have the internet then how are they supposed to order these damn things yeah you know this is an incredible point and I'd like I mentioned earlier a lot of the people in let's say Eastern developing countries their access to the Internet is primarily through a smartphone so if you already own a smart exactly to get to the internet are you gonna get in why would you get Android one because you pretty much you got your foot in the door and uh you know the obviously there's going to be a huge socio-economic discussion that could be had when it comes to this which is which is why I brought up the fact that the Android one website looks like I mean come on there's this there's this picture of this asian dude walking through what looks like a farmers market you know he's dressed to the nines he looks like a you know a well dressed person and right next to it is a dude in like what i can only say is like a ralph lauren polo shirt I'm like what is going on here like I think that one of the failures of Android one is the fact that it doesn't necessarily realize that you can't really use money to market something that's supposed to help people who have no money and you know if this is supposed to be some sort of a grassroots not well maybe not grassroots cuz we're talking about Google here but if this is supposed to be something that developing countries supposed to take advantage of it doesn't really seem like it from from the advertisements from the marketing not not not in the slightest you don't would be a really great idea and I can't remember which we talked about it on this podcast a couple of weeks ago or a few weeks ago maybe but um what was the only weeks we had a Akobo but uh who was the company that had the like the refrigerator trucks full of technology and they're driving around and selling it to people that saw something that they're getting ready to do with they haven't done it yet but they're given to do that with um project ara that's the kind of stuff they need to be doing with Android one they need to be you know putting an ice cream truck full of Android one devices and literally drive it up and down the street and try to sell it to people like ice cube videos like Josh said it's a you know it's supposed to be a grassroots movement and how you're going to get to a grassroots movement if they don't have the internet yet you know you have to bring it to them yeah and in order for them to buy it and you know I mean the people that already have credit cards and already have enough money to buy a smartphone and have the internet I mean those people are gonna go the extra hundred bucks and get something a little bit better than this I mean let's face it that's what they're doing already yeah exactly and you gotta go to the people you know I have this image in my head of Google's basically saying okay we created this like you guys said feisty and grouchy a blueprint for you guys to create these phones go have at it and then they wash their hands of the whole thing um that's you know it's almost it's almost upsetting me just a little bit because i love the democratization of information of the internet and i love that you know at Google i/o I was drinking the kool-aid I thought oh man google is not the evil company that sometimes we say they are they really are trying to help people and now exactly right they work sometimes say I'm sorry i cracked me up like I to think that this was a focus this was actually a pretty substantial part of google i/o to think that this was a big part of it and that it had a focus it just kind of irks me a little bit that first of all the way that they're presenting it if this is going to be the main way of finding it android com / 1 i'm not really convinced and even then like we're saying the sales seem to be and in the down portion right now and that's just a little bit setting i guess to me but I'm talking existential water I'm not focused I've been eyes I've been sitting here trying to do some google searching it doesn't look like they have done some relationships with the carriers in India and stuff so there's a little um it's primarily online when I can see like Flipkart and you know amazon and stuff but they do have some carrier relationships so they've tried to do it a little but you know it's a lot it's a different landscape I don't know I don't feel like Google's necessarily let us let let down the program I just feel it's been our off to a rough start I'm not giving up on it yet I think it still has a lot of potential and Google's sometimes is that way it takes him a little while to get into the group with stuff you know so I don't think it's necessarily down now by any means yet yeah no I mean Google is always about these long-form things you guys remember uh you know google play music you know started out it wasn't really all that great you just upload some songs and stream them and now you can go online buy a bunch of songs and have them not stream because it's freakin broken still so you know but they're still working on it and that's the important thing yeah I suppose on some level though it's just that that's the way Google operates right we we have we are all basically beta test say you're partially in beta stage yeah yeah how all the things are for better or worse you know I know in some ways I don't mind that but you know with a program like this yeah i agree with you it's a little a little upsetting to think that it had the potential to be a big deal but then again you're seeing all these other companies that are still producing good handsets so i think that the goal is still being reached even if android one's not the one doing it you know yeah so good one I think is responsible for making this a success is this Google's Project do they own this or is it up to the manufacturers or they just have a guideline to follow I think it's supposed to be pretty 5050 was the idea but well we would you say manufacturers in Google but we also have carrier is involved oh yeah and that always makes things more complicated but yes yeah retailers distribution I mean yeah well I mean the air oh sorry good I said there's a lot there yeah other logistics there's so many channels to go through you know and and I suppose you know giving them the benefit of the doubt giving a multi-billion dollar company then the benefit of the doubt now they can only mark it so much I mean below those pick those ridiculous pictures I was talking about earlier are you know broken apart versions of an example of an Android one phone that has all of these features that supposedly are going to be really great for people who can afford it or the fact that it should be affordable for a lot of people so looking at some of these other devices that are also affordable now obviously we did mention already earlier that how low is low enough obviously for us something like that's two hundred dollars or even the one plus one which is three hundred forty nine dollars constitutes affordable to us but if Android one is having here front and rear cameras quad-core processor micro SD card all day battery well okay everyone says that but uh huh LOL yeah dual SIM cards well what would constitute an affordable phone to you is it let's look at this from another perspective what if android one is a way of telling people that you don't have to compromise for the features that should become standard for a phone feisty you're using a moto g would you say the Moto G is the bare minimum when it comes to what could be an affordable phone that has the features you want sort of yes now I've got my gripes with this phone and let's start off with the processor I mean the Snapdragon 400 you know I spent 200 to get this google play edition version and it's getting a Snapdragon 400 device right now can be done for thirty dollars out there so i don't know i'm not sure where the processor market is at right now there's no to me there's no solid successor there's the Snapdragon 410 but you know we're not really seeing it out there yeah I did so I'm not sure I think it really comes down to that we're anything below a snapdragon for under you know the Snapdragon 200 devices and what not tell you i just i don't think they have enough juice even now this moto g it's recently updated to 5.0 point2 and i notice it the slow down i am now feeling that the 400 is not strong enough snapdragon 400 we've seen in a few devices i'm looking i'm doing my own little research on the side just just a sort of bolster this it looks to me here that Android one phones from the various partnerships that they have primarily use MediaTek processor yeah there's that there's been talks about using a like there's partnerships with qualcomm it just hasn't happened yet yeah i think we're gonna see the second generation android one phones are gonna be a lot different to the first gen i think getting it out there they started with pretty base phones and I'm hoping that the second gym will really see what the program's made of wood they call that Android too I think it'll still be Android one but it's google they're gonna call it android 1.1 yeah coming soon now i have done i do have to say like you on we're on cheating we're mentioning a bare minimum and specs and the snapdragon 400 on KitKat does great lollipops supposed to be even better for that for lower end and so I really do sincerely think bugs are in the way and I think that 5.1 and later updates will fix that but anyway talking about Snapdragon 400 um now face says you know almost two hundred dollars but is that the bare minimum for a Snapdragon 400 device absolutely not um for instance Yami's up what how do they pronounce it as a red me or redeem shred me is that the line it usually it's me if his mi yes all right redmond the redmi 1s for exit for example is the equivalent of a hundred dollars in india and it has a snapdragon 400 in it it has one gigabyte of ram has an eight gig it has an 8-megapixel camera you know it has I believe it has 80 device the storage let me see um I'm gonna look it up uh yeah eight gigabytes of storage you know and so it's a hundred bucks and so there's companies that can do it that can produce a high-end device I think this probably speaks to why Android one isn't doing well as they're selling me tech device when yeah me and stuff is able to produce the vice with the Snapdragon 400 for the same price I mean kind of a no-brainer I'm gonna go with the yummy yeah and speaking from experience mediatek processors are they're not they're not terrible by any means but they just don't kind of hold a candle to snap dragons and even I am we're talking yeah if we're talking about entry level media tech phones lot of processors i should say oh my goodness I who's to know exactly what kind of experience you're gonna get on that wow I mean would with the sorry not to cut in but with like that no no no I do want to say with red me like the redmi 1s you are getting jelly bean and that was supposed to be the point of Android one is you're getting the newest version whereas with that well obviously it's running that me you I or whatever they call it but it's based on jelly bean and so you're not getting the newest version of Android and that was the point of Android one but to me if I was if I was low on money and I was in one of these countries and you gave me two phones that were one hundred dollars one had a crappy not to be mean but a crappy MediaTek processor but it had KitKat and it was about rating upgrade a lollipop and the other has jelly bean but it is running as faster processor it's more optimized as a better camera you know what I'm not I'm not gonna be petty about the android version i'm gonna go with the device that gives me more power for the money you know well i love that you said that because I I expected our conversation to move into you know the the scales you know which one are you going to pick if you had an Android one phone or something else that had a little bit more to offer feisty what would that be for you they are you a software monger in the sense that you really want the latest one or will the actual specs let's say really sway you in the other direction not to say that I don't want the latest OS but i definitely look at the hardware before the software and a software again plays a part and it always should but I mean hardware theoretically can be upgraded with new software and these devices it's not like an old pc where you can rip it out put in new round now you get what you pay for and that's it there's no upgrading these phones so hardware is always what I look at enter well yes that too our podcast will always go full service how about you Joe um am goodness gracious this is such a complicated answer because you know we were talking about the minimum specs a minute ago and you know everyone's like oh yeah you know I can deal with you know one gigabyte of RAM and Snapdragon 400 I'm looking at my current apps usage and I just flashed this from today right so i just reinstalled everything and all that's totally clean install and i'm using 715 megabytes of ram just for apps that's not including my system with including the system it's 1.2 gigabytes so a 1 gigabyte phone with the apps that i run is like impossible for me i would never be able to use it because everything would be slowing down because of lack of ram so like you know for me personally like my minimum is 2 gigabytes and you know if i'm looking at something that's you know lots and lots of updates or you know hardware i'm going hardware because hardware can always you know like feisty said you can always upgrade hardware with better software eventually as long as you buy it from a company that doesn't suck HTC i'm just kidding just kidding i love it i'm buying an HTC One m9 I'm allowed to say mean things right now but uh well you know the uh it's a it's a complicated subject I don't really have my thoughts totally in line yet for this and so I'm gonna shut up now well I mean that's yes the thing this is the reason why at least maybe brushy and I were hoping that Android one would be able to consolidate these issues and it doesn't seem like that it would it so far has been able to who knows what would happen two years down the road if all of these companies who are always looking for the bottom line will actually allow themselves to go below that line and say okay let's make a phone that is not only got the bare minimums and we mean bare minimums like two gigabytes of RAM like Joe was saying but we're also going to make it affordable it seemed up until Android one happened and maybe even until now if we're talking about Android one not necessary succeeding it was sort of a pipe dream and for people in developing countries I mean I'm Filipino and there are i have so many family members and people that i know in the teams who are stuck with particular types of phones and you know even my father who goes back to the Philippines every now and then he brings back phones he pretty much brings back my hand me downs to give to people in the Philippines so they can have a more upgraded experience because otherwise they wouldn't have anything the the Philippines are still called the texting capital the world because that's what everyone can do not everyone has a smartphone not everyone can get on whatsapp or whatever the hot messaging app is nowadays but you know that's that's why this this topic sort of hits home for me is because I want to see the democratization and the overall availability of a program like this because I I know firsthand you know from from personal experience what it can be like for people who have that trouble to get a phone like this so only owing it to maybe a little bit agreed from some companies or maybe Google's reaches not as far as we thought you know the Android one program is something that we have to still wait and see where it's going to go I wanted to actually brushy I wanted to can I put you on the spot right now a little bit I guess with the other growth we I think mostly from you during our conversation now we've heard quite a few a little bit of shade against lollipop like Kim can we get a small crush he ran on like what's wrong with lollipop because oh um well grab a seat kids I don't want to be I'm sorry probably honestly I would say I really honestly thought you're about to do it oh hell no to go I'm just trying to kind of gather my thoughts here I mean I have lollipop um on my Nexus 5 uh and on my Nexus 7 and on my Nexus 4 and on my Nexus 10 I have a lot of Nexus anyway I have it um and I'm considering going back to KitKat whoa um I think lollipop has a lot of potential people are probably getting ready to bring out the pitchforks right now they're gonna be listening to this um I'm a Google fan I think lollipop has a lot of potential I just think it's very but it's very buggy whether or not that's justified since it's such a big is probably another conversation uh but ultimately it's just that I kind of feel like with the fact that we this time around had a testing phase where we were able to try out the phone and report our bugs you know I I downloaded it right away on my Nexus 5 you know what back before it was what it was just you know android l I felt like we were gonna get in a version of Android that was pretty stable from the get-go and it hasn't been um the battery life promises on my device saliste hasn't been what it's supposed to be uh I run into a lot of random glitches and shutdowns and I'm not going to say that I represent everyone and you might have the lollipop advice right now and be like I've had no problems at all and that's fine just my own personal experience I just feel like there was a lot of bugs there's been battery bugs that are draining bugs there's when Wi-Fi bugs there's been all sorts of and it just feels like we should have had this figured out before now um eventually when it gets all solved in Android point five point whatever 5.1 whatever is there I'll probably be very happy valley pop I like material design um it's a big change it's bright it's colorful I'm cool with it uh uh you know and there's a lot of good changes with lollipop but at the same time if you are still on KitKat don't necessarily be in a rush to get all the pop eventually it's gonna be awesome but don't be like I wish you had lollipop because you may not necessarily be thrilled what you get I mean there's still a lot that's not there I think lolipop it's a lot of potential but it's not polished to where I want it to be um and the analyst people are probably mad at me now for saying it but um personally I just feel like lollipop has a lot of potential but it hasn't all Richard and what do you guys think I mean do you feel like a lollipop is everything it's cracked up to be right now I I I have full confidence before I hand it over I have full confidence Google will get it there I I absolutely have confidence that Google will get it there I don't think a lollipop will be a disaster it's not gonna be the windows 8 of of the FAA windows I like it actually I like it was rarely stay but everyone hates a grenade I mean I windows 8 and Roy a dragon age Oh now no I everyone hates Windows 8 um except for a small subsection of people yeah I had no problem with it either jail but I don't like a lollipop will be remembered as a bad version it's what I'm saying but right now it's not quite there in my opinion what do you guys think is all about what you think it should be right now um I think the low end up first of all you're absolutely right lollipop it is buggy is all hell like I have three devices of lollipop and the one that's rooted the one with the broken warranty running a rum from a phone that was released a year later is the most stable device in my in my possession right now like you know my Nvidia shield tablet is a great device but it has audio bugs that keep you know like you'll be listening something you'll be like oh hello the ER on and then keep going uh my Nexus 5 sometimes connects to my Wi-Fi and sometimes it doesn't it's really up to it sometimes I sweet talking a little bit like aw come on baby please just for a little bit i really need to download this app to test it i'll buy you some flowers and stuff I'd never buy it flowers which is probably why it's mad but um all my listeners have a very colorful idea of what Joe does it this way yeah you don't want to know it gets crazy I I wish I would them I woo them to try to get them to work and they don't work sometimes it's you know it like brushy I've considered going back to KitKat on a number of occasions but given the nature of my work I pretty much got to stay with the with the latest because that's what people want to see but no um it it speaks to it thanks a lot crush yeah thanks for that that chat there totally derailed me garlic bread and phones my two favorite things anyways um if we were talking about it earlier the always in beta thing that pretty much everybody who's a Google fan goes through you know everything is always in beta all the time you know and we see that effect on more than just Android you know you have a Chrome browser that eats up a bunch of ram you know you have google play music which doesn't stream sometimes and now it's getting to the point where they're so rapid fire with these releases every single year with android that I think it's just starting to catch up to him a little bit you know there it's getting harder and harder for them to rebase and redo all of this stuff and come out with an operating system that has no bugs cuz you look at Windows 10 when it windows 8 come out like 23 years ago something like that yeah yeah and Windows 10 is even come out tonight that's for years for years that Windows has to work out the bugs and get these and get this stuff in order before it gets released and you know Google is due out for another version of Android and freaking nine months like are you kidding me like it's it's starting to get to a point where I think you know Google and people in general just need to calm the hell down a little bit and she's like you know the way I look at software's you know does it work great it's doing what it's supposed to do why are you in a rush to change that and it is just it feels like you know it's getting to a point where I don't even want to update any more I feel like I'm being forced to update because otherwise I'm gonna get left in the dust and that's that's my little micro rants on a on Android and just upgrading to quickly I think that's the real problem is just they had 365 days to do it and they needed more time okay um the reason why I love that you guys were going at length about this because I'm gonna bring it around in a second but I want to hear from feisty thoughts on lollipop and do you have any problems with it the way that it seems joe and grocery have you know it's just some coffee not caveats but some reservations about it I hate it I'm sorry hey no no no the pups awesome eventually yeah lollipop but I have found a few minor things but you know in the UI in the front end I would specifically call out this priority mode on the audio settings it's an awesome option but why is it the default it should be a back-end thing that you can enable and then just allow allow us to hit the power or the volume rocker and turn the phone down and off but anyways that's being fixed in 5.1 by the way just just throwing it out there x2 little too late you can always wait for thursday my android customization series and if i cover these things and how to get by it no honestly though the biggest thing for me i think is art the Android runtime the thing that has been bothering me with the the phone specifically the Moto G I got a nexus 9 here it's been great the Moto G I'm finding that it's ram utilization is a blessing and a curse all at the same time yes it's loading apps faster however I'm glad you guys brought up windows it's doing the old microsoft thing where it's just slowly bleeding and sucking up more and more ram once every week and a half or so i have to restart the device I hate having to restart my device Oh boohoo that few seconds just ends your world see it goes beyond that I am a huge helium backup user or carbon whatever you want if you remember from the old days yeah come on so when you hook this guy up to your PC you get everything all set up you can run your backups and restores I don't like to have to hook it up all the time again that 30 seconds right but every time I restart the device i have to reconfigure these things and redo all this stuff and I don't like didn't have to before is my point I did not have to on KitKat feist have to now up for some clarification do you mean like reboot the device or do you mean like total like wipe the device re yeah factory just reboot power toggle okay which again it's a minor thing but and that is my largest complaint with with lollipop so I guess in the long run we're doing pretty good it's okay if that's the complaint okay well personally speaking I should give my answer on this actually two is uh I really enjoy lollipop I think the the aesthetic upgrade was something that was very truly needed as much as I love hollow material design is farm beyond a better way of presenting Android absolutely uh and I'm also one of those people I've said this a couple times before and I haven't gotten much reaction to it yet but I'm also one of those people who had the best way for me to describe it is I'm a very tolerant technology user if there are some minor issues i'll say minor because it's my scope if there's some issues with the way that i'm using my android I will find a way around it and and use up that like two hours to figure out you know is there a way for me to optimize a bed roars or something I can do to alleviate it blah blah blah so really when I run into any like little things I call Joe a what did I call you that other time I stutter not see i think is why I was um that I thought the cut that kind stuff doesn't really bother me where if I see a little bit of a hiccup here and there the only real problem that I've had on my Moto X at least what the what lollipop does that count the calendar app which I don't use keeps force closing on me and YouTube even when Moses on me all the time by the way that's probably while you're using it yes oh wow uh-huh a Google+ uh reboots my phone for me yeah that happened to me tues that happened to me too I'm lollipop see I by far do not get these types of problems on the phones that I use and that the worst thing that's happened to me on lollipop is that the calendar just every now and then no matter what I'm doing because I almost never touch the calendar app it'll just pop up a little window that says sorry calendar has stopped or whatever it says on there that's really all I get um and I can't really begin to even tell you why that is the case with me but I actually have had a very great time well with lollipop that's kind of why I mentioned that I'm not representing everyone because there's a lot of people who probably have to know of these none of these issues that Joe and myself have ran into and that's great and honestly if I reloaded lollipop who knows maybe I would maybe we better next time around you know sometimes sometimes just stuff happens while you're installing and just you know that has happened to me before where I've reloaded and it's been just fine I've thought about doing that to see you know and so you know I know with windows and whatnot in any operating system sometimes just stuff goes wrong and sometimes just you know starting it all over again is enough you know reloading everything from scratch is enough and you know maybe I should consider that before I get too angry but like I've had a a volume issue where now my nexus 5 isn't as high and who knows maybe my speaker is going out but it happened it coincided with the update 25 point 0 point too so I'm guessing it's a software issue and I just haven't got around to reloading to see and so that was probably the main reason why I'm oh no wait about lollipop is that I actually still use the phone unlike most people to call people um like my mom make my mom and people like that you know family members and so yes I call my mom she lives three hours away I have to call everyone so I'll see how she's doing um anyway and so when I'm making a call I can barely hear so I have to use a bluetooth you know bluetooth headset look like a dbag all the time running around with the Bluetooth and so which I hate Bluetooth and so I guess that's the reason why I'm annoyed by it it's just little stuff like that and like I said I I have nothing against lollipops design I have nothing against all the new api's I think lollipop is the biggest change the android seen since ice cream sandwich absolutely but you know then again when I ice cream sandwich showed up there's a lot of issues to wasn't there you know so maybe that's just growing pain yeah probably growing pains why not I I agree with you though grocery if I had that problem where I had to use a bluetooth headset all the time which I actually do use I don't use like the one year piece one so I use like full on headphones and I have a microphone on them if I had to use that just to talk to somebody I'd probably be pissed off too so I don't blame you at all yeah and like I said maybe my phone but I guess that would be a whole nother issue if my nexus 5 which is only it's not even I didn't get it right when it came out so it's only about a year old and so maybe my Nexus 5 you know speakers going out but if that's the issue that I'm even more annoyed yeah perhaps oh ok well here's where I wanted to bring it full circle been there are problems with lollipop and not the least of which is the fact that it's not necessarily available for even lower end phones right now if we're talking about Android one but bringing it back to the whole Android one thing if these are problems we're having with lollipop on higher end phones is it justified for Android want to use it as a main marketing strategy not really yeah that's a really good question um I don't know if it's not as if it's not a sustainable or even stable that's a stable operating system and and it's supposed to be their platform to create a democratization of smartphones is that really something they should be doing if these are the problems were having in the high-end market yeah um well like bro she said you know lollipop has a lot of potential in there they are gonna fix all of these stupid little problems eventually I got a feeling that it's gonna be like jelly bean where it's gonna be you know they're already 5.1 is already lolly there up so we're probably have a 5.2 lollipop but diluted I drop out there for a sec no no I thought I heard a noise over from grouchy also but it's okay oh yeah but uh yeah no that's right glad but I said I'm sorry maybe I dropped out install was that anyone quiet no no no we're fine guys but yeah go for it technical difficulties oh I totally lost my train of thought guys I'm sorry a potential or potential with Android one and potential with a lollipop that is oh yeah I don't got good google is gonna fix these problems and when they do fix these problems it's gonna be fine you know it'll work better I actually noticed I have a nexus 7 2012 right did I actually gave it to my roommates girlfriends kid because I yeah that's right that that that's the new demographic for tablets that barely were kids oh man that sounded bad I'm sorry anyways um but i had android 5.0 point 0 on it and it was garbage like the nexus 7 2012 was totally unusable a period like I couldn't even open and read a comic book likes flipping the pages took 2 seconds and it was just like I wanted to destroy the thing and then I put 5.0 point2 on there and a lot of those problems were alleviated not all of them but enough of them to where I felt comfortable giving the tablet to a kid and I know that the kid would probably still be able to enjoy it even if I couldn't um it's just you know like where she said it's gonna be one of those things where it's gonna take some time and they got to get all this fixed I just kind of wish you know like just one year I'd like for Google to go you know what guys we're not doing an Android released this year we're gonna do something really big next year we want to work on it make sure it's perfect no we need to change is now Joe quiet I know neither changes now hashtag Nexus Warriors google google can't necessarily be hideo kojima so i want this i don't know i want six point oh where is it it's getting to a point where you hear these things over and over again and it's just like it maybe it's just time to stop with the with the Nexus dile yearly updates thing like I just don't think it's working anymore no you're bad I I I do think I'm honestly those these are going to be my favorite moments on the podcast is why uh you know one of the golden rules of podcasting user should never be any dead air but I actually would actually love it I would love it every time I bring up a question and you guys like all I got think about that for a second because I think that's those are the questions that we we hope to be able to to to to answer you know that we get answers to because that's the whole premise behind Android one is the fact that you'll get the latest the latest operating system um but we've heard from three people here or actually to Brushy and Joe that you're thinking of going back to kick head although he is no I'm sticking out all day I just I've had those moments I'm gonna probably reload lollipop on my Nexus 5 to see how it goes and if it's still ok but I think we'll get there I think 5.1 will be a solution hopefully but that brings me you know you're talking about you know Android one and whether or not uh lollipop should be on there I think that's why it's not um you know I have to give Google credit there I think that they realized that it was going to be a subpar experience out of the box and so they waited and I think that's why it's launching in Indonesia with 5.1 and that's why Android one is going to be the first to see 5.1 is because I think that's they address the issues and I think that Android one will hopefully start becoming a bigger deal after this I think that you know and so I I have faith in Google I do I mean we probably sounds like the most anti google android podcast ever but no I have absolute faith that Google get it right and i think that they had the hindsight to realize you know if we throw a lollipop on here and it's just been it's laggy and buggy on a low-end phone people are gonna hate Android one so we're better off to take a little flack for waiting you know that's so funny if it works on our our crappiest phones that has got to work on that on the better phone yeah well that's what I'm thinking is that they if they optimized it for Android one if they if android 5.1 is is optimized for Android one then theoretically it should work fine for everything else because it's if it can work well on low end it should work well on everything else with a little bit of work unless it has a Tegra 3 in it because then it won't work at all trust me boo how about you feisty do you think that you know going to all the things we said about lollipop is it is is it justified that Android one is using s one of its main marketing strategies before I answer that I have to thank Joe for bringing up the nexus 7 i'm sticking with mine man i'm going to try and get this to work now i will say that the lollipop update on this old 2012 nexus 7 yes changing apps is a terrible experience but once I'm inside a nap especially a heavier game the it is running much better so your was it your roommates sister girlfriends nice now I hate the time they are something yeah so go into the question sorry um there is always that expectation when you upgrade an OS that it's going to be an improvement to the system to your device so certainly waiting and holding off for this you know proper 5.1 I say proper we'll see what happens was a great move that's absolutely what they needed to do so Android one I'm with the other guys absolutely I have high hopes for the program I think it has a future assuming they can looping back to the beginning get their marketing and distribution figured out okay yeah I I have hopes for it I am kind of on the fence after having been one of those people that was like oh my god my relatives and the Philippines are gonna benefit from this so much and then you know we get this kind of news from it that's why I guess that's why I was a little bit impassioned during our discussions because you know I really want to see stuff like this succeed I want to see I want to see developing countries develop you know and you know if Google was going to be at the forefront of providing smartphones to the masses who otherwise born to be able to afford the experiences that we are blessed to have here in the West then I you know I'm all for it so I have high hopes as well but I wanted to explore all the issues as why and if lollipop was one of them we were going to put it to task and I'm glad that we were able to do that so with that I think that we've thoroughly been able to go through this particular topic for this week's Friday debate stay tuned to android authority for all of the best coverage and for the podcast a Friday debate podcast of course and in the background we're having a little bit of a chat war the the Friday debate pockets of course is available every Friday on all of the podcast networks and we are discussing Android topics every week you can follow all of us on social media and all four of us the best place to find everybody is on Google+ using plus and of course our full names but you can also find us on various other sites as well like Twitter and if you want to find out what those sites are and get the links to all of our social media sites you can go to the post at Andrew 30.com on which we will have the Friday debate podcast ready for you to listen some flavor in your ear make sure you stay tuned next week also where we're probably going to have maybe one or two different guests on there from the android authority team so you can look forward to that but i want to give another things to our host for this week our usual group thank you again for being on as always keep it tuned to android authority for all the best get over to our 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