Sony Mobile's Decline? | The Friday Debate Podcast 005
Sony Mobile's Decline? | The Friday Debate Podcast 005
2015-02-20
hello everybody and welcome to the
Friday debate podcast episode number
five discussing topics in android every
single week I am of course your host
Joshua freghar from Android Authority
what's going on everybody and I'm joined
by our regular panel of co-hosts we have
Joseph Indy Andrew crush and Jonathan
Feist how's it going all you guys hello
Internet all right cool so as always the
Friday debate podcast discusses topics
in Android every week and this week
we're going to be talking about Sony but
Before we jump into our topic I want to
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gonna go ahead and just jump right into
what we have this week like I said we're
talking about Sony and if you've been
following our web site over the last
couple days you've probably heard a
little bit of interesting news from them
but our topic will explain that so here
we go earlier this week Sony announced
that its corporate strategy for 2015 to
2017 involves taking less risk when it
comes to TV and mobile with the company
and said electing to focus most of its
attention on areas that it thinks there
is room for real growth like the
PlayStation platform
whoo image sensors for mobile and camera
as well as its entertainment business
the bottom line
it seems Sony has lost face faith in
mobile what went wrong what can they do
to turn things around or are they better
off cutting their losses and selling
their mobile division just like they did
with their Vaio PC division early last
year all right I'm gonna open up the
panel right now I want to talk first
about what went wrong with Sony and why
don't we start off with if you're a fan
of the Sony smartphones and then you can
talk you can dive into what what what
what you think went wrong with the mole
division over at Sony any of you guys
can go ahead and start I'll start there
wait for somebody else to go first
um I don't know if I'm a fan of Sony
phones because I've never had one I've
seen a few of them a friend of mine just
got the the z3c or whatever the small
one which one was that
ah the small one the Z oh the compact
right do you start with the color yeah
yeah the compact one so I gotta take a
look at that for a little bit and like I
like the aesthetic I like the way that
they look and you know their high-end
phones with decent specs um but I think
that the big problem is lack of
availability I we've discussed this
before on this podcast I'm almost dead
sure of it but um
yeah you know you can't find a
consistent Sony experience Oh across the
whole world like you can with you know a
galaxy device or you know HTC has been
doing it a lot more with their HTC One
series devices and you know you don't
see that kind of omnipresence with Sony
and I think that that's their biggest
problem with with Mobile's they're just
they're not in enough places to make a
big enough of a lasting impact you know
what I mean yeah well I mean the the the
the fact that Sony isn't necessarily a
wide-reaching company is kind of an
oxymoron when you talk about a huge
company like it and I guess the mobile
division is one of the few places that
they have that problem but from what I
can tell and I have and we did mention
availability before on this podcast and
I think at that time I mentioned that
Sony seems to have a big foothold in
places like Europe and Canada but if
they're not making money in those places
I don't know maybe they're actually not
selling in Europe and Canada that's
something that seems like a bit of an
anomaly to me but why don't we jump over
to either Andrew or Jonathan either of
you guys want to give your thoughts on
what kind of went wrong with Sony's
mobile division sure okay so as far as
what went wrong there's a lot of factors
I mean it's easy to say that the whole
twice-a-year phone you know that they do
they do two to five chips a year
definitely contributed and I think
that's true
let's see there's that the fact that the
z3 wasn't really much different than the
z2 at all probably didn't help Emma
we've talked we've talked more than once
about you know a limited availability
particularly in the Western markets like
the United States but you know I think
those are all valid points and I think
they contributed but it I think it's
more complicated than that I think that
Sony was slow to get really into the
smartphone game I mean they've been here
since the beginning don't get me wrong
but as far as truly innovating and
bringing us something wonderful I mean
you don't like display the display
technology I mean correct me if I'm
wrong but the display technology was
pretty awful for a long time right yeah
I think that the viewing angles and yeah
I remember those very well the early
experience late when was it that they
addressed it with a Z 2 job yeah busy
too it was definitely the detail and so
I mean it's just it's just little stuff
like that it's like Sony's product looks
good
I have I I don't have I do not own a
Sony mobile device I've never owned a
Sony smartphone but I have a friend who
has the z2 and I think it's a solid
answer and I've seen others many times
and I like their the form factor I think
it's a little boring I mean it's in a
way I mean it's a square it has sharp
sharp angles and I think that the design
is gotten a little better with a z3 and
it's it's slowly evolved but it's been a
little boring in my opinion I think that
probably doesn't help but bottom line I
think it's just the fact that they
haven't been aggressive enough
they haven't you know even their
software I mean we can definitely say
that it's awesome that they don't add a
lot of blow and that's you know one of
their positives but the same time I
haven't used it a lot so you can
probably speak on this a little better
Josh but is there anything like super
amazing about their software either
though well from those I don't have some
yeah I mean they're they're software
tends to not focus on flash as much as
the rest which was always a plus to me
and I always thought that you know
people should be flocking to these Sony
phones because they they don't sort of
punch you in the face with all of their
features the way that say a Samsung or
now G phone might try to sometimes and I
don't know like while the look of look
and feel of the actual operating system
itself could use a refresh the way that
Android used to when I went from an ICS
to freaking jelly bean and to KitKat
after that like I do think that the Sony
phones I I kind of disagree with you
Andrea I don't think that their phones
are boring I actually think there's some
of the best made phones that are out
there well they're super super solid I
mean they are they're there I've always
kind of thought and not just in phones
but just in general I've always kind of
thought of and some people might take
this negatively but I don't mean it mega
differently they're kind of the apple of
non iOS and Mac world when it came to
their PCs when it came to everything
there was head kind of that you know
style that stood out that was just you
know they had the durability they had a
sleekness and I'm not an Apple fan but I
admit the Apple has good aesthetics to a
point um and I think that Sony is kind
of the was the windows world and the
androids world version of that in a way
and so I'm not saying they're ugly or
anything I just think that uh there has
been enough change in their the design
link which I guess was more of my point
was that right before we did this call
we did sort of discuss what our topic
was going to be like how we're gonna go
through and you mentioned the hundred
that you didn't think I'm Sony evolved
or they were very slow to evolve in the
mobile space can you kind of elaborate
on that was it really just in terms of
aesthetics and design or did you have
even more like underneath the surface to
comment on well I mean yeah that's
definitely part of it uh I just think
that uh I mean I'm not gonna lie I'm not
gonna say that I've used tons of their
older I mean I've used like what was the
Xperia Play the varan Verizon that was
the plaid the PlayStation controller
I've used some of the older ones but as
far as like the ericsson some stuff I
don't have a huge amount of familiarity
other than just seeing them and passing
from other people but it just seems like
sony sony missed the boat in some ways i
mean i just feel like you know i wonder
and this is speculation but when it
comes to like software yes it's good you
know there tends to be two camps people
who like stock android and people who
actually legitimately enjoy the extra
features that you get from you know
sense and TouchWiz the thing about sony
though is they don't have a lot of bloat
but their aesthetics are still different
than stock two so it doesn't really I
don't know does it really appeal to the
stock crowd or the people who want lots
features that kinda doesn't hit either
side you know I mean okay so that's one
thing mm-hmm
and then I I just I mean I really yeah I
think that a lot of it just had to do
with the fact that as far as aggressive
new technologies sony's been more tepid
about it i mean it hasn't been huge
pushes forward in my opinion and that's
just my opinion okay all right let's
move on over to feisty feisty your
thoughts on Sony and what might have
gone wrong with their mobile division is
there anything left to say after crush
II you know I can only echo and jump off
of that you know obviously there's
availability issues there's pricing
issues I'll get into that in a second
but there's that design now we were
talking about HTC and the Samsung's and
stuff of the world a few podcasts back
you know we were talking about them you
know they're innovating they're the
actual design of their devices they're
you know they're going out they're
curved displays it's all this kind of
stuff and at that time we have we kind
of applauded Sony for just sticking with
it they've got a designed and they
ultimately they haven't changed it much
in the last few and you know we praised
them then but I would have to say on the
flip side right now it's that's part of
their yeah part of their down from using
the word downfall loosely here but and
this is again was a quick Russia was
saying what's up you know they haven't
done anything extreme
you know they haven't jumped off any
cliffs for us and yeah that's got to
hurt them just a little bit well but
isn't there any I think one of the big
things is the price tag you know when
this certainly in the in the United
States this thing comes out I look at it
you know great phone I'd love to get one
that's a little bit too expensive a few
months later six months a year whatever
the price drops hey no I'm still too
expensive maybe there's one more price
drop but you know what it still can't
afford it and then right there's been
three other Xperia Z's yeah exactly
there's more phones out or it just
disappears inventories done that's it
it's gone so by the time you know it
becomes affordable for a lot of people
it it's done it's gone mmm well I mean
before before we get into the
that I had in mind I did want to sort of
do a little bit of explanation the the
the idea of releasing a phone every six
mile most said two months that would
have been in saying hey do you have
putting out a phone every six months is
actually a very at the risk of sounding
a little bit a little bit odd here it's
a very Japanese way of business and you
have constant updates every time there
might be even just a little bit it may
be just an inch forward even when it
comes to a product they find a way to
justify to put it out it's something
that a lot of the companies happen to do
in Japan that are from Japan and it's a
bit of a weird notion to a lot of us
Western users who are used to like every
year or so and but the thing is that
even the smartphone industry itself and
this is just my opinion has made it so
that we don't necessarily have phones
for a long time anymore we actually have
to plan out to have a new phone every
single year they have put that in our
minds where back in the day we might
have had a phone for maybe two maybe two
and a half years because those were how
long our contracts used to be before
even any upgrades were a part of the
deal but aside from all that excusing
its feisty isn't there a market though
for people who want maybe going back to
basics isn't that not what Sony has been
able to do with their phones as of late
to sort of create a very solid like
Andrew said an attractive phone that
doesn't necessarily have to have all the
bells and whistles that people for the
most part may not really flock to yes
for the most part but I wonder if
advertising hurts that I looked at you
know followed along obviously the Xperia
z3 release and you know what I was
seeing was lots of stuff on there
triluminos display and you know they
promoted that and you know regular
consumer I'm assuming they don't care
what the display is moto it made out of
as long as it works and then use some of
the other things they focused on forgive
me I forget the name of it but their
camera software word superimposes you
know jungle scenes or you know that sort
of so yeah that's really a are cool but
you know I don't think the average
Android user really
they might really enjoy having it but
that's not so to speak a selling point
of the phone so promoting all of that
stuff I think you mentioned that the
Japanese market maybe it works excellent
there and people who are used to it you
know all the hype around the Hello
Kitty's of the world I assume there's
that benefit you know I'm not down
downplaying any of this I'm just stating
facts of speaking for myself I don't
care if there's a cute character on the
front of the box or not I'm looking at
the spec sheet well it's it's funny you
mentioned that because for the record
Sony hasn't actually been the company to
really do that too often from this from
my experience over the last year or so
it's really been like LG that does that
they yeah they bring in the sponsorships
from all of these like super cartoony
characters and they're the ones who made
that one phone that it goes into a
sleeve that has a face on it and then
you can like pop it up or something like
hey I just had like an image in my head
of like them getting like cuz you know
they're like Japanese coming getting
like like an anime character like Ash
Ketchum from Pokemon like I choose you
LG my lg phone again that's just so sad
I do have to mentioned that they never
be awesome in a way if he was here but
Mathew Benson's one of our writers he
lives in Japan he's lived there for like
eight years I believe something along
that line and actually he was talking
about Sony the other day and even in
their home market I think that they're
losing a little bit of of interest
though you know cuz he was talking about
how he doesn't see as many Sony's as he
used to and that's just one man's
perspective obviously but you know we
were kind of talking about that he said
that you could see that even at home
Sony is hurting in the mobile division
it's not just the Western markets okay
well you mentioned that even at home
they might be losing a little bit of
their foothold what what exactly do you
think would have been the reason why and
and I know we were going around talking
about the fact that they may not have
evolved they don't have much
availability but is Sony basically
here's my question is is Sony basically
the old mand and the old man in the
market that's starting to be bogged down
by all these hip new companies that are
coming out like the oneplus ones of the
world or are they getting it are they
getting inundated with people
Samsung and LG putting out like nine
different versions of their flagship
phone um you know I don't think I would
look at it as like an old man in a young
man's world kind of thing I would look
at it is like the the kid who can't swim
at the swim party like you know Sony has
had like one foot in the pool and one
foot out of the pool for all these years
now or like yeah you know what we're
gonna make this huge awesome flagship
phone but then we're not really gonna do
a lot with it you know we're not gonna
make it overly available we're gonna
make it super expensive and you know
we're gonna see how long this obviously
winning strategy holds out and you know
while Samsung and you know HTC and you
know even ACC's losing all you know they
were losing all that money for so long
even they were like you know what screw
this I'm jumping it all the way to the
pool let's do the HTC One m7 let's
release HTC Zoe to the Google Play Store
let's do some good stuff with our mobile
you know and release the the walk
because before the HTC One m7 HTC had
the exact same problem where they didn't
have phones available in all the
carriers it wasn't the same phone it was
like the HTC uh it was a she said one
like MX or something like that on AT&T
and then it was the Evo LTE on Sprint
and then it was like it's the sensation
on t-mobile is they were all over the
place with this stuff and then they
buckled down and said no we're gonna do
this right HTC One on every carrier HTC
One worldwide and now that's a brand
that they're building on and Sony
already has the brand to build on but
they don't you know if they just their
one foot in the pool one foot out of the
pool like you know we wanted but no we
know we don't yeah you know we kind of
know you know we don't now they're like
you know what
no we don't we're gonna get out of the
pool now so but something else I wanted
to bring up real quick is uh they've
also they've had like a lot of potential
to do that flashy stuff the grush II was
talking about earlier because they did
the the PlayStation thing on phones
right like the PlayStation Store on
phones and like you know they were like
all ready to create things we're gonna
let you stream old PlayStation games to
your phone like like you can with the PS
Vita and the PSP like we can get old
games and play them on your phone and
then that never happened and you know
there was supposed to be I remember
seeing a demo at one point someone
playing The Last of Us on a on a phone
well that might have been remote play
yeah the remote play whatever became of
that like that never came to fruition I
mean it's not is it's not like Nvidia
shield is doing what their grid where
they're making you know like lots of big
names it's available right now you know
well that might be true but the thing is
the grid is a streaming service while
the remote play requires you to have a
PlayStation 4 which I do and I will say
remote play is pretty freakin awesome
Oh in that case I was not talking about
remote play oh but uh yeah the
PlayStation Store on Android has largely
been sort of swept under the rug at
least from what I could tell from the
from from the last two iterations of
Xperia you don't really get any games
that you would recognize from
PlayStation on there you kind of get off
shoot android games that you would find
at the fifth page of the games page on
the Play Store yeah exactly like that
they didn't pay attention to this
feature and now it's a piece of junk and
they wasted a bunch of money and time on
it and I'm sure that's something that
was in that business meeting like you
know what the place you know we're not
doing anything with this store that we
have on Android let's just shut down the
mobile division but the other thing I
wanted to talk about really really quick
I'm sorry guys was walkman how the hell
have they not been cashing in on that I
mean that's something that old people
and young people like from you know 15
year old hipsters to 60 Oh everybody
knows the Walkman name and what did they
do with it they had this huge artists
own e Walkman smartphone instantly
recognizable worldwide what I do they
make it a freakin music app and it
doesn't do anything important yes what
the Sony Walkman app is like that they
could have done so much with it cuz you
know theythey was partnered with a
Spotify right for their PlayStation
Music in a couple of weeks ago why not
call that like you know Sony Walkman
music service and put it on the phones
too and like give people something to
like like oh she said you know there was
no wow factor there and that's all of
their attempts to create a wow factor
we're just so mild and tame and not
wowie at all so that's that's something
else I think probably contributed to it
too is just you know like they have
these awesome names in these PlayStation
Walkman and what do they do you know
when they've tried to bring it to mobile
they screwed it up Royall and now it all
sucks
hashtag wowie as we're going to use
sometimes in the future
Gretchen didn't you guys when we all won
we all went to CES didn't you guys get a
look at a Walkman iteration when you
were at the Sony booth yeah there is a
Walkman it's like $1,000
what issues yes looks like a thousand
dollars I have some I don't know off the
top my head but I was like a really
advanced like audio quality that makes
it like super awesome is all I know I
don't know you know I'm not super into
sound that way I know basic stuff Oh a
nice tag wowie the basic idea of that
guy is that it can play 192 kilobit
flatting files so a high res audio oh ok
so nothing like nothing for like
entertaining information because I did
not I remember writing about well you
wrote about it that's why I got the
write about it yeah you write about it
the guy who saw it's just like okay and
then I saw oh you know how CES is I mean
those who haven't been there obviously
are all most of our audience or all of
our audience I mean it's so crazy you
have so much going on you'd you don't
have time to like fully absorb things
just like the highlights yeah for sure
you know okay well so there is a Walkman
iteration but I guess they're making it
more of like a boutique brand in a way
like yeah it is it's supposed to be the
best of the music experience like he
said you know and it's cool but I don't
see it anyone paying it's $1,200 I just
looked it up dude who's gonna buy that
and it has jelly bean justjust just
saying oh my god those Lamborghini
phones are like $2,000 phones runs
Gingerbread like I've actually seen and
held the Darcy and I when we went to
China Rose a few weeks ago I we actually
went to one of the electronic stores in
the airport and they had the Lamborghini
phone right there and I held it in my
hand I don't want to hold it anymore
like it's it's a weird-looking phone
they put way too much into it
anyway okay I love that we brought up
walk
because I actually want to put this
question out there and we're I already
mentioned that I was gonna ask this
question so Jo like moaned first I can
oh groaned for assessment for a second
they're like oh I'm not gonna have too
much to say about so I'll let you answer
it first what Sony products do you have
like if we're going way it past mobile
now Sony is a huge company that has
their foot in so many different doors
there's got to be at least one kind of
Sony device in our houses or that we use
and apparently drill may not have one is
that true yeah you know not a damn one
you do I do what do you what are you
thinking
psy buddy your piece right the PSP
that's right I have a used PSP from 2005
that's the letter to account you're
right I apologize I have one Sony device
josh is a PSP it is green what's the
lesson is it what's the last time you
played that thing dude like three days
ago well really what are you playing on
your PSP Final Fantasy 9 dude like I've
been trying to beat it but the last boss
is cheap and stupid so apparently I know
what Sony products that you have and you
don't like think of PSP Sony products
like you think that's part of the
problem is that they yeah and you know
not to go back for where we're at but
you know I stopped my wow factor and
then you mentioned the PlayStation brand
I just feel like they kind of stepped
their toes into all of these things but
they don't go far enough
I mean what's Josh you probably know
that what's the name of the streaming
service that they have on the ps4
instead I think now on the Vita - I
haven't uploaded the update but the
streaming service they have now for like
ps3 games and stuff well it's pretty
much from the PlayStation Store and and
they're saying the Civic name for it
that was was a PlayStation now is that
the one yeah
plus like it could be that yeah it's
anyway I'm not exactly what you guys are
talking about is what I was talking
about earlier when you guys thought I
was talking about remote play yeah it
should be I agree with you talking about
that what you're talking about now is
what I was talking about
yeah leveraging leveraging that on
mobile would be a huge deal a huge win
that's the kind of thing I'm kind of
tummo as Sony's been very you know you
were talking before the show about Sony
and Sony has been super progressive over
the years I mean it's not like they've
always been this way
I mean Walkmans
they Betamax which obviously didn't
succeed but hey still progressive
awesome man Betamax was better than VHS
I'm just saying that now I'm sorry VHS
sucked anyway on the point you know they
have all these great technologies but
for some reason they just when it came
to mobile they didn't get aggressive
enough with it
Oh see that's the reason why I think of
Sonja is the old man in the young
person's game because they came into
this this industry where we pretty much
knew what we were going to get you know
in smartphones you're gonna get a good
processor or in a flagship that is
you're gonna get a good processor you're
gonna get a particular screen you should
have a good camera experience and sony
has been doing that for a long time in
the feature phone category what there
were so many ericsson switch i yeah
freakin loved but once they jumped into
smartphones it was kind of already
established meanwhile in all these other
markets that they have like Betamax DVD
blu-ray PlayStation they were pioneers
because they thought out they they
thought outside the box and fulfilled a
need that people wanted that wasn't
there yet that's why I think they are
the old man in the young person's game
because the smartphone industry has been
established for a while now and Sony
just gives us exactly what would they
know we need but maybe they don't go too
far and I don't know it to me that's a
benefit like I would look to Sony as the
brand that I go to one I just want the
essentials a micro SD card slot really
good build quality a nice screen
especially after they enhanced it and a
really good processor but I don't know
maybe our users really need something
flashy like you were saying earlier well
yeah I have a quick question for you
guys real quick
when you look at all of the other places
they compete you know who are their
competitors like you look at the
PlayStation brand who are their major
console competitors like what Nintendo
and Xbox right yeah and then like you
look at um you know I Betamax and DVD
and blu-ray and all that stuff who was
their big competitor like can you guys
name their competitors and in those
other areas where they excelled a whole
bunch laserdisc exactly and then like
you know you look at their competitors
in the smartphone world and in the
laptop works I know Joshy wanted to
transition to this eventually yeah but
you know you look at this the Sony Vaio
and then like their mo who are their
competitors here like freaking everyone
yeah that's this one I'm you know it on
the laptop side you got like dell and
alienware and uh Asus Asus and then Asus
raagh which is like a whole different
thing that they do and then smartphones
you Samsung HTC you know LG whoever
whatever Google's doing with whoever
they're doing it with you know Asus you
know they have a whole bunch of
competition you guys think it's like it
could be likely that uh like that the
market is progressing too fast for them
to have an original idea and move
through because you know you look at
like you know the Walkman brand that
they tried to bring that could have been
seriously revolutionary but then you
know other companies beat them to it and
then you know you look at you know the
PlayStation streaming and then you know
Nvidia kind of beat him to it with grid
you know it's like hey do you think the
competition could be moving too fast as
opposed to them being too timid
well that's I'm saying I think there are
two met there's too much competition and
I think that I think that was my main
point I mean maybe my old man in algae
wasn't necessarily correct when I was
trying to describe it but that's exactly
what you're saying right now exactly
what I'm thinking you know there in the
market that has already been so
inundated with all these other companies
that they just can't really stay afloat
and now I'm back I was an algae but you
know we uh one thing we're not even
thinking about it's why I mean think
about it why why do they let it get
there Sony was a king why was if they
were entered early bike back during the
htc you know the the g1 era and stuff
you know uh they could have they could
have you know ran the show uh why didn't
they uh and I think it comes well I
think it comes down to the fact that you
guys we were talking about all these
great things that they've done and all
these innovative things they've done
Sony's everywhere they have compared to
even some of these other companies yeah
I don't know wrong Samsung does a lot of
stuff too but Sony has done so much were
they really was was mobile an
afterthought I think that's what it
comes down to uh it was an afterthought
I think I think and I the time they
realized that it shouldn't be an
afterthought I think it was too late you
know which is kind of my I'd you know me
going back to the whole I thought they
were slow to evolve I think that's
really what I was trying to get I
couldn't think of it at the time is that
they were they were slow to evolve in
mobile but not elsewhere and the reason
was because they were focused on
elsewhere they were focused on you know
the PlayStation brand they were folk
Don expanding the bravia you know lines
for the four monitors and you know
televisions and I think that they they
didn't realize the potential of mobile
maybe until it was too late you know
that's just a speculation but if you
think about it would make sense and you
know once you get behind it's hard to
catch up yeah and they're early phones
were not that good either no as well say
think that you know that like early um
pretty much anybody else you know it's a
bad hardware not really good software
and then they finally came out with the
Xperia brand like what just a few years
ago yeah after after smartphones like
Josh said had become a thing did yeah
Joe did you have those classic Sony
phones but from back in the day the
Erickson's know it was one of the things
I always wanted one because the design
was always really nice but again they
were never on the carrier I was on so I
know I won but I remember the specs
weren't that good I remember like they
were being compared at the same levels
like the old lg optimus phones yeah
where they started you before they did
the G thing where it was like mid-range
low range you know mid-range specs you
know regular prices but I don't remember
like them ever being like considered
along with like the HTC EVO 4G or the or
the Moto Droid or you know those other
big-name phones I don't remember Sony
ever being a part of that conversation
but I do remember Sony being there
somewhere hmm okay oh speaking of
classic Sony yeah um I may have not had
an Ericsson you know I told you I didn't
get into the phones you know I did have
though and I wonder if any of you I'm a
little bit older but not a lot older
than me I wonder if any of you else had
it a Sony CLE eh I don't think yeah yeah
I had a CLIA um I think the model was I
don't even remember it's been a while uh
I ran on Palm OS 3.5 I think originally
so it was like 2001 I think with the T
series that sounds right to me
anyway uh and I thought they were great
back then you know and it's Sony's done
almost everything Sony's done its bit
I've been a huge Sony fan for a long
time but you know we were talking about
how much Sony products you own I really
own very little now outside of the
PlayStation brand I own nothing outside
of PlayStation really no okay and I used
to I used to have Sony TVs everywhere I
used to have I don't know I think Sony's
kind of faded from my mind there's just
so many other options now ya see though
yeah yeah but that's what we're gonna
keep going back to um I wanna hear from
feisty like what what what Sony products
do you have cuz there's a quicker the
reason that I wanted to go through all
of this is because we're gonna see where
do they have successes in other fields
and maybe a little bit later we'll see
if they can apply that to the mobile
space and we'll pontificate on that but
firstly uh how much Sony do you have in
your house well just like the other guys
but talking about the Sony devices in my
house is a trip down memory lane
Sony VCR it's a great VCR it's 15 years
old it still works wonderfully
wait are you still using it today like
well it turns on once a year just for
the sake of turning it on to see if it
still works but but yes it's still
hooked up it's my clock what's a year I
try and set it yes I just imagine like
feisty living room in the middle of the
night just a blinking midnight clock
it's part of a setup I'm too lazy like
it out while you're talking about soneul
you know I have uh I have a Betamax
player but it's not hooked up but I do
have it in the box somewhere in my
basement
nice yeah well hook it up and let us
know how it goes I'm sure it might work
I don't know I haven't used it like
wasn't that wasn't the controller like
wired to the thing or or my the old one
yeah some of them were yeah I can't
remember I think mine I haven't brought
it out and so long I do have a via you
know I don't he's not the only one I do
ever VCR still I just don't use it it's
in the basement and it is hooked it is
hooked up to my basement TV though oh
well yeah go ahead so yeah so I mean
going back up but Sony was really and
and this goes to our previous question
as well kind of what went went wrong and
and how things are coming along you know
when I was growing up Sony was the
company to beat you know if you wanted
to the best products the most premium
devices out there you saw it for Sony
and you know I got up into my teenage
years later in the teenage years early
20s when I started working have some
real money to start spending on on you
know whatever I wanted
I went stereo shopping TV shopping car
stereo shopping you know phone shopping
all of these things and you know I
touched each of these Sony devices
because and that was my first stop
because you know that's the way to go
you get Sony that's the best and then I
found that Yamaha made a better car
stereo and well again Yamaha made a
better house stereo and and you know
Samsung for example makes a better TV or
you know these are just experiences for
the few devices that I touched but what
I really found and my point here is that
you know Sony was that the fact owed top
a line but they weren't you know they
were depicted as the top but when it
really came to touch into the devices as
nice as they were as premium as they
looked they just that they weren't the
best so I for me I kind of lost trust in
the brand in that front of course then
on the word trust you can come to more
recent times and they have so many
outages in their you know their own
networks and the movie side and the
gaming thing I think Trust really is it
is lost with this company that's an
excellent that yeah I didn't even think
of that yeah I agree I really didn't
even with the hacks and everything like
that like you know who's you know oh wow
the hacks I didn't know we were going to
jump into that their name has been also
dragged through the mud it's you know
it's not just the hardware stuff just
the Sony name yeah Sony has been the
subject of so much embarrassment over
the last couple of years
well the it's funny that we're
mentioning the Sony Pictures wing I just
realized when was the last time I
watched a Sony Pictures movie and I
actually thoroughly enjoyed it sure as
hell wasn't the interview holy crap or
or the new Spider Man I didn't see if I
heard it wasn't that good so I owe the
interview you mean no the spider did he
was Spider Man well they were both they
were both pretty terrible
so I never got it I will say I will say
okay very very much a tangent but you
know as much as Jo doesn't like the
interview I laughed
that's the laugh I never saw it hmm
but yeah I mean it's interesting that
you mentioned like the lack of trust I I
don't feel like I've lost that I guess I
mean okay here we go Joseph and boy like
no Joe's gonna be like mr. hipster man
again like I grew up with Sony and I
remember I I'm a very nostalgic kind of
person and I absolutely adore what they
did back then and I always look back
with very fond memories like the Sony
Ericsson Bryant I had the Sony Ericsson
t610 there's T 619 the the the the first
Walkman phone the W 800 and then when
they upgraded it to the slider Edition
which was amazing the 850 and I would
listen to music on those those things
were like my lifeline because music
really meant a lot to me back then still
does but I mean back then let's see we
had a Sony big-screen TV the old fat
models that had to come with the stand
and I remember those yeah yeah and we
had that forever and PlayStation 2 that
was my first foray and sort of like
console gaming me like real console
gaming because the one I had before that
was Nintendo and then I stuck with
mobile after that wow I must be way
older that I thought when was that was
that crushing I said I must be older
than I thought
PlayStation 2 what's your first major
foray into I know I'm sitting here like
NES SNES oh my goodness I'm more hipster
than Josh right now
well actually know what you just remind
to me I did have an n64 my bad I didn't
have an n64 before that but but they the
earliest one that I had was a Nintendo
and then Gameboy became my like my
ecosystem after that okay so you're not
completely yeah I'm not hopeless I do
regret my I my Nintendo is hooked up in
my bedroom right now not regular
Nintendo well I do regret not have a
pretend oh I do regret not having a
Super Nintendo I will say that much I
never ever owned one but yeah it was a
Nintendo then mold
than portable gaming and then and 64 and
and PlayStation 2 after that my god you
lived a deprived life I don't know how I
could deal with that my Super Nintendo I
said I I still bust it out from time to
time yeah you know I think Super Mario
RPG legend of the seven stars pal yes so
it was made by Square and it was the
last collaboration before they had a
falling out basically mmm
yeah and it was talking to March anyway
well well yeah but that was a long time
later and yeah I it's absolutely my
favorite game I've played that game so
many times over the years and I know I'm
an adult now so I should probably past
Mario the heck now uh-huh well my
favorite my favorite video game
character of all time is Mega Man X and
I think I've made that very clear over
the last couple years but yeah well so I
had bad and then I moved to the
PlayStation 3 obviously and now we have
a PlayStation 4 my Bluetooth extra bass
like large form factor headphones or
Sony and you know I I don't know I still
have the faith in them I understand
where there are some some caveats with
their products like for example the
Bravia TVs they really really up the the
refresh rate on those with their
software so much that movement on those
TVs looks absolutely fake like it's
weird how they do that yeah great and
then the PlayStation 4 has its own
somewhat issues online gaming is not the
best for it the PlayStation 3 look like
a piece of crap I'm just gonna say that
out right now I didn't think that design
wise the PlayStation 3 looked good at
all really yeah it was like this weird
bloated mess like I said I thought it
look like well did you have the original
yeah I did see this I have the sliver
model Oh got it
Joe's overlooked not the one that looks
like the George Foreman grill yeah so I
mean I I don't know I still love Sony
and it pains me to see that mobile is
not gonna be a big like like future for
them I suppose that's what they're
thinking but because some and so much of
what they've made on aside from just
mobile has been so great and and in my
opinion continues to be so so you do
have a ps4
yeah I do oh yeah that's right what are
you playing right now nothing it's uh I
bought Dragon Age Inquisition a while
ago and I and then I got far into it and
then I stopped and then I restarted and
I just finished it finally oh nice oh
but said since then nothing I want to
get the new infamous because infamous is
absolute my favorite series of all time
now that getting second son right that
one's on that one's on sale not good no
no that one good that one's usually on
sale these days so it shouldn't be that
hard to get yeah I need to buy it
because I love to the first the first
two mmm and see and I think I think Joe
made a perfect point earlier that the
PlayStation brand doesn't have a whole
lot of competition compared to the
mobile brand and that's why we're able
to talk about it at length like this you
know but they I mean they they have
throughout history I mean even when they
got started I mean you know I I think
that you know but I I as far as the
trust thing that Joe mentioned I still
have trust in parts of Sony that was
fine I can ignore me
feisty I am sorry he's always like just
the moment he jumps in it's always like
there's just something insightful
I know exactly he's over there watching
Ferris Bueller's Day Off on his VHS
player my favorite part yeah eyesores
trust I I no longer buy Sony TVs because
to me so many TVs were the best and then
kind of like what Feist did mention yeah
that they were the best and then I
started to realize you know they aren't
necessarily the best I just thought they
were the best and I think there was a
point where Sony did lose some of its
quality a certain aspects but are they
are they not up there though like maybe
we don't say they're the best but can we
say they are still one of top five but
at one point I would consider them the
best now I would say LG is what I all my
TV's are LG not everyone likes LG I
think LG's TVs are awesome Samsung is
pretty high up there actually which I
didn't even know this is looking at
stuff the highest rated for
satisfaction its Panasonic actually when
it comes to TVs okay they see they know
anyone who owns the Panasonic TV but I
do like Panasonic now if you were gonna
call me a fanboy for any company it
would definitely have to be Panasonic so
I'm just yeah I'm gonna hold my tongue
right now on the I own a Toughbook in
the 90s nice loved it so I want to say
quick things on this one I want to make
a golf reference I think of Sony as like
par for the course and that seems to be
their target you know and when you go
play golf E you're not shooting for par
you want to do better but you know they
seem to be happy with with par and then
Panasonic is mentioned and you know
they're kind of the opposite for me you
know growing up Panasonic was kind of
considered one of the lower rung guys
but the truth is they've got some great
gear yeah the opposite was saying about
Sony do you guys think that duh that
Sony has been kind of living off his
legacy is that part of the problem if
they knew that they've know they built
this big legacy and they've just been
kind of coasting on it I'm gonna counter
your question with another question
before when because like we think of
Sony like all the great things that Sony
did you guys noticed yet that like all
of most of Sony's biggest
accomplishments happened before everyone
had the Internet and could like go like
explore other products like it's stupid
or not because like you think like oh
yeah you know the PlayStation 1 was
awesome and the Walkman was awesome it's
like and then the internet came now
everything sucks like you know do you
think it's like just people were able to
get online like you know go get cheaper
electronics from other places because
like those other places didn't have the
money to you know specifically
distribute to regions that they didn't
have before like I'm with feisty like
when I was a kid Panasonic was like oh
you have Panasonic when you live in a
trailer park to like oh it was all word
of mouth like there it wasn't like
something like you go and look at the
reviewers and like you know you go to
I'm sorry the verge and like see a
Panasonic review and see the reviewer be
like lol do you live in a trailer park
now
you know if you go and you see these
reviews for Panasonic and they're
actually like really good stuff and like
well how come I thought that way when I
was a kid because that's just what
people told you but now we have the
Internet and people can pull a much
larger and in some cases a much more
qualified group of people to tell us
exactly how good or bad these products
are and maybe maybe I'm gonna get
blasted for this I know it may be
somebody was a little overrated
back then it it's on the moment just
that's exactly what I was saying good
you know they were I think I think the
company to beat but the products weren't
there were excellent products but they
weren't the best they didn't I say that
they were the apple of the that they
were the alternative Apple so there we
go I'm just happy that Joe made my old
man Michael bad analogy make perfect
sense man I can make all analogies work
just shoot them out there I'll
eventually do it nice we've danced
around so many topics this might be my
favorite episode so far
yeah we've kind of we're everywhere with
this particular topic but that's not a
bad thing I mean I think we all have
long histories with Sony I mean that you
have to say I mean who hasn't used a
Sony product I mean maybe you don't have
a pal but I mean all of us have used
probably multiple Sony brother I was
very Knicks fan boy growing up dude
PlayStation 1 & 2 were my crack and then
they dropped the exclusivity and I went
over to Xbox but I do two Final Fantasy
we're still PlayStation only I would own
weight more PlayStation things like for
sure here's a here's the level of my
commitment to Sony at one point I owned
a minidisc player oh my god I got the
hipster crown and mail it to crushy you
could walk in with all of like the 1980s
chucks references you want Grusha wins
week I thought it was great I you know I
I suppose like men mp3 suck this is so
much better quality
I am a minidisc Claire they're awesome I
can record things off the radio with
this model I can yeah it was it was like
a hundred you listen to the radio it was
it was do it to be honest the other day
I was cleaning though as going through
some boxes in the basement and I found a
bunch of mini discs that's like I think
he's going the trash oh my god moped
things you don't want to admit that you
owned the Big Bang Theory
wait Sheldon's like you're gonna regret
buying that iPod when the Zune comes out
like that's what your story just
reminded me which I will say I went zoom
when it came out I like all dude me too
I had a Zune yeah I just bought a Nokia
Windows Phone because I wanted another
Zune should we bring this back to
separately that we are coming up on our
last about 15 minutes of the podcast
which brings me to the final question we
have talked about very fondly at least
of our memories of Sony and of the
various products I think I might have
the most Sony products that I'm actually
still using now so knowing what they
were able to do with these other sort of
industries is there anything that they
could take from there or maybe is there
anything they can do better in mobile
that might make them bounce back a
little bit why don't we start off with
rushy wow factor I said it like five
times you know - tag wowie
hashtag wow we met we kind of touched on
some of this PlayStation branding they
could do a lot more with that uh but you
know even just I don't even know that's
that that they need to take anything
from what they already have they just
need to realize that it is a different
category and that things that may have
worked in our other categories don't
work with mobile mmm you know and I
think maybe that's the problem they've
tried to apply HAP you know not fully
really kind of you know like with the
PlayStation thing oh here's what we're
gonna do guys
here's a playstation phone Xperia Play
will be bla but they didn't really do a
lot with it and I think that they just
haven't had a clear direction with
mobile I mean yes they've had a clear
design and I didn't you know I think
they have a good design language I said
it was getting a little boring you know
I stand by that but there's a lot of
people who like it and I still say that
their phones look sexy they just uh and
so I think the design language is good
and I think that it's just that they
haven't done anything to really shake
things up and you know that you said
that Josh you said you know there's a
market for a back to basic I think there
probably is but are they doing enough to
market that more you know to market that
angle mm um I think they're trying to
push this onto so many fans and I don't
think they're doing enough to to make
Sony fans care I think that probably
would be my answer is like they need to
just reach out more I mean having
availability across the board is not
necessarily something that you need in
order to be successful then we look at
all these Chinese brands who kind of
stick to their own markets you know and
but if they are going to have at least a
phone here I mean z3 VZ 3 or Z 2 s or
whatever the the versions were that
we're on the various carriers t-mobile
and Verizon in particular
then yeah maybe they should just start I
want to see Sony Xperia commercials on
my TV you know and I want to see
marketing us they used to have Sony
Ericsson commercials all the time yeah
that's true yeah they were a bigger deal
oh they were yeah for sure and I think
that that would be probably the first
place to start that something's just
probably answer that's that's my big
thing you know because we're seeing
PlayStation freaking commercials like
every day you know greatness awaits and
stuff like that so no well yeah has
anyone here besides the internet seen
any kind of advertisement magazine and
billboard anything for Sony oh yeah for
if they're Bobo
for the mobile for mobile for mobile no
not in America I have not I have not and
I think that's part of the problem now
you know we're all we're all from you
know well feisty is Canadian technically
but we're all from the you know North
America or where we live here anyway as
I think feisty out of the call knocking
we represent you know a certain angle
that may not be accurate I mean you know
like we were talking with a Android one
it's accurate to our markets but I mean
OTT you know some people who are
listening this I'd be like well that's
not true here and you know wherever
they're at and but just from our
perspective Sony could be doing more
here but what about at home I mean cuz
like I said I think that it's even
leaning in in Japan so where Sony has
historically had a lot of you know
weight a lot of clout so we need to kind
of figure out what are they doing wrong
I mean are they're not advertising
they're either obviously none of us can
answer that because we're not in Japan
but I'm sure there's a feeling somewhere
yeah and I don't believe that Sony
should give up I don't think they should
sell the division I don't think they
should have sold their PC division
personally but because I was a big fan
of I had several values and I was a huge
fan of two laptops I mean they used to
be awesome I mean when I was even in
college I mean vaio was you know Mac
wasn't hipster cool yet it was vaio you
know that was the hipster thing back
then you know all the hipster types were
going for the BIOS back then yes I'm old
that makes it cool well I know logo was
kind of cool too you know yeah I did
they had the cool the cool netbooks like
instead of just a boring looking
netbooks they had these like really like
thin like ultra wide weird ones and I
remember thinking they were almost
awesome looking things ever because you
know netbooks were awesome apparently
for a little while I have a specific
angle that I actually want to ask feisty
about and I'm gonna ask you last so I I
I wanted to throw it over to Joe do what
do you think that that Sony can do
better and you're the one that doesn't
even have much Sony in your house all
right so here's the thing like and this
is something that has been kind of like
underlined you know obviously I think
that the biggest problem is availability
yeah and it's not because it's not just
like you know in North America because
the carriers don't have it and I'm angry
because the z1s on t-mobile sucked
compared to the zero and I know that's
yeah
but uh it's something it's I gave me a
second I'm articulating this in my brain
right now
all right so crush adjust said that you
know he saw those little netbooks and he
said they were the coolest little things
ever crush you did you own one
no why I wanted to buy one uh they were
too expensive right so it was like I
remember they were like they were like
seven or eight hundred dollars netbooks
were like three or four hundred dollars
exactly I was some crappy Dell right and
like you know you look at that and
that's the reason why I say that they
should be available on carriers because
carriers can take that you know because
these are all $700 phones anyway there's
no different than the Samsung and HTC or
Apple you know but they all you know
they're all doing really well because
they're on carriers and carriers can
subsidize those things turn expensive
phones into cheap phones and allow more
people to buy them and that's why I
think that availability is super
important and you know even with their
you know that's the thing that the vibe
that I get with Sony phones is man that
phone looks so great
god I wish I could buy one and like it
that that is the big point the the the
huge thing that I hear all over the
place is man that phone is really nice I
wish I could get one like my friend
bought a UH the z3 seed that I mentioned
earlier the z3 compact and he bought it
used on swap ax and I believe it's like
an international version or something
like that mm-hmm
and uh you know it's just it's just one
of those things they're just not around
you know people look at it and go even
if it we're on commercials people be
like man I really want to buy that phone
now where do I get it and the answer is
cricket cricket cricket cricket cuz no
one knows where to get it cuz it's not
available anywhere well you know I mean
you can you can go to Sony's website and
buy them yeah but then but then it's
hundred dollars you know of course well
you know of course there is the the z3
on t-mobile and there is the z3v on
Verizon so there is availability but are
they advertised well I don't know why
better yeah I think oh they go
hand-in-hand I do feel like uh and and
Joe brings up a very good point I think
in our history of ever having Sony
products there's never been a budget
Sony product ever it's well you you you
got the impression that your which is
kind of what Apple does you get the
impression that it's worth them
because it's the best even if it's not
really in the nest it's we've been told
it's the best and you know even back
then I have a I have a fond memory of
selling stuff too but was it necessarily
the best no there were other good stuff
but we were conditioned to it it was the
brand that we knew to trust and I still
think Sony builds good products in many
ways ah but it came down to the fact
that you know we were willing to pay
that amount but I think consumers and
the internet probably has contributed to
that consumers aren't willing to pay
that anymore they would rather you know
this might only last me four years is
that you know if it's a TV or whatever
instead of seven or but that's fine I
just saved $400 yeah I guess so you know
and I think and I guess you know we
could not to go political but we could
you know blame the economy hunt some of
it too I said sure you know so it's good
that you mentioned it the way that you
did aggress you because feisty you
mentioned right before our podcast we
were sort of discussing how we were
going to tackle the topic that you
brought a band droid TV and what I
wanted to put out there was you can all
you can of course go into what you think
Sony can do better for their mobile
division but I just wanted to pose this
idea if Sony of CES made it clear that
they're gonna go all-in with Android TV
for all of their bravia sets and this is
just pretty much pure Android TV we're
looking at they put they just injected
Google's own operating system and
interface into their TVs do you think
that could be a route that they would
take with mobile what if they went
all-in with Google and just made Android
stock Android what they do and kind of
kind of cut their losses cut their costs
when it comes to their proprietary
operating system do you think that going
all-in with Android on their experience
might help that is a tough one to answer
it certainly I think it would help a lot
if they also introduced lower end phones
as long as they're gonna continue to to
promote themselves as as having premium
phones I think they have to have their
own OS to match that premium nature you
can I mean that all of the budget phones
and sorry I'm gonna make some
generalizations here but the budget
phones run pure Android the premium
phones run a premium experience Android
so I guess the philosophy from the TV
division probably wouldn't help the
mobile division you think again I'll
speak to the hardware here I there's
definitely room for them to grow I mean
we look at Samsung over the last three
four years that they skyrocketed to the
top because they had the gamut of
devices they had low-end stuff that you
know could make the bulk of their sales
and then they had the high-end stuff
that you know brought up the the appeal
of the line hmm but again the sales came
from the lower the mid-range device now
of course the the bigger device is sold
as well but I mean the bulk of their
income came from the lower devices and
Sony just doesn't have those so that you
know borrowing from the Android TV going
to appear Android there's room but not
on their current hardware platforms and
this speaks so sorry go on so feisty I
have a question for you yeah um the Moto
X is not premium to you at all it's it's
not the new Moto X hardware wise yes
with its decent specs with its metallic
edging with its customization leather
back I consider that pretty premium I'm
not trying well we don't write an
exactly stock Android either there's a
moto moto skin whoa just because the
skin is thin doesn't mean it's not there
I have to say I've got the Google Play
edition Moto G and the Motorola software
I'm missing I hate missing it
I can't even install it and so even if
it is thin like joe says it is missing
and yeah it's still basically stock with
it also there's no Nexus warriors all
like in the listening audience before
anybody like blows up premium does not
mean better folks premium means like
bonus extra you know stuff more
necessarily yeah more expensive exactly
it does not mean better so you know is
if we're not saying that like you know
that the the Sony UI or the TouchWiz is
better but it is in fact premium by
definition sorry go ahead
fine then the Nexus then the Nexus 6
isn't premium by this definition no no
but even though it has metallic you know
the design and it's I don't know I guess
I feel like stock doesn't have anything
do with it and I I think that that was
kind of my point earlier is that I think
that Sony hasn't lot brought a lot of
extras to its skin uh and so it's closer
to stock but it still looks different so
the purists the people who like Nexus
myself it's not necessarily what they
want and it's not necessarily what
people who are looking for you know
advanced features want either and so I
absolutely am an add a different side of
you I think that they could benefit
completely from not going pure stock but
going to a really really light skinned
the same icon same design just a few
extra apps a real PlayStation app that
has real streaming and just go to the
basically scale down their software and
focus on the things that Sony could do
well with oh yeah better PlayStation
branding better a better walkman music
app that kind of stuff all right did you
have anything else you want to add
feisty before yes absolutely
no no no problem I mean that's a great
point of view where I guess Android is
at that point now where the OS versus
you know the pure versus the skins is
you know it's blurring that line of of
the lower end versus the higher Android
which is good I like that and thank you
good rebuttal
but going back to our actual question of
today is you know part of it was that
then Sony wants to take less risks and
they want to focus on the markets where
they think they'll see growth you know
the thing is for me is I think they can
make that growth if they seek it out
don't look for the markets where they
can make growth just go out there and
make it and that goes to specifically
for mobile I mean they're they're
focusing on one type two kind of the
premium device where they think that can
make an impact where really they just
need to go all-in spend money to make
money if you will and just you know do
it own it they own PlayStation they've
you know they'll go upside down on that
brand if they had to it's theirs they
own it and they're doing great in the in
the in the gaming market you know
they're hesitant they need to take as
opposed to them saying they want to take
less risks I think that
to take more risks and that will help
them out overall in any division not
just mobile all right great
well I think that is a pretty good note
to go ahead and start closing off our
show here I'll go ahead and go into my
little intro outro I should say remember
to listen to the Friday debate podcast
every single week on of course Friday
using all of the different applications
that you used to access the podcast
channels you have iTunes stitcher and
like I said before pocket casts and I
want to thank our co-hosts once again
Joseph in the Andrew crush and Jonathan
Feist today we talked about Sony and
where things may have gotten a little
sour with their mobile division because
it's become clear that Sony is not going
to as they said take risks as much
anymore in the mobile division which for
a couple of us may have made us a little
bit sad or it made it made sense to a
couple of us me and personally I thought
that I always have faith in Sony and
personally I do call I do I do take a
little bit of sadness from that
particular piece of news but we went at
length here and we also kind of went on
tangent off tangent for a little bit in
the middle I hope you guys enjoyed this
episode that was certainly the month at
the most one I've had on the Friday
debate podcast thus far but nonetheless
keep it tuned to android authority for
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from there I think that we're good to go
this is the Friday debate podcast
episode number 5 discussing topics in
Android every week once again guys let's
go ahead and just sign off as we usually
do thank you guys so much for listening
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and yeah that was really fun that was
really awesome yeah agreed
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