Gadgetory

it was just really hard to communicate how you know how a headphone and sound there's no reference you know something that may sound good to someone may not sound good to someone else yeah that's so that's really what I embarked on trying to get measured with a meaningful measurements tile and head were effect that you know a lot of those were referring to the head of a frequency response grass and that's you know that's one dateable but I wanted to see more and I thought why they hear more because as a DIY speaker builder I certainly knew what a lot of issues that that that we run into mainly the thing that I heard about that really hurt my ears the lowest place residences and we need and are there any folks here who are into the single driver type speakers high-efficiency exactly and you know their challenges there with with us with a full range drivers there's they're swinging the higher quality is that we don't have that are also advantages to not having a crossover and George you mentioned this headphones really give you a very intimate experience yeah the level of nonlinear distortion is very very low you put on some of these top quality wow you're just getting blasted with not necessarily blasted but there's all this detail all this information that's missing now you can walk around the high-end ones here you know he's these hundred-thousand-dollar speakers that you may not necessarily hear that with the best way $15,000 headphone center I know it's rather crazy but please what were you big that's where the room really kind of becomes a huge part of the equation exactly that room factor Trump monitor you don't hear that um you know there are a lot of great speakers here but one thing I know it is thing the rules are too small there's nothing here that 60 Hertz group residents and it's boom it's like oh he ordered that come from so there's there's none of that and so if I'm walking around the air I'm really struggling and ideally I mean most of us we don't have a speech organic rooms and as those are a good way to really hear what's on that recording without the inter pares but anyway so yeah as i mentioned right now you know where are we at in terms of headphones and I feel weird if we're in the late 70s early 80s in terms of we're heck more speakers were and that's why I through this thing out here with the scene in Boogie Nights busting England you know maybe three or four more plus a child you know we're getting there you know there a lot of companies right now I sennheisers done some good work Ozzy has really made great that phone and we'll start seeing what I'm talking about we get to these measurements that's the speaker I wanted 30 years ago I had the opportunity here for years ago i'm going to guess yep okay we should mention before you go on that we're going to have a guest to headphone gameship anybody guess from the ground which my point is we have 3d prices we have some headphone amps and some eggs to your own incredible intelligence because this particular that phone as a close fo i'll give instance even one guess we have some serious head boat good as your keys here this is the CSD plot is it does not cover the low frequencies and only Congress previously from 50 curves what would you do the computer finds bad there's not very much meaningful information below pie which occurs for headphones it's just a matter of interactions with the cops what Cutler are using let's get the burning oh yes he is i'm actually not using a double yet the reason is i actually did try a dummy head and there's some issues with that dumb because you have the ears any different yeah yeah then you've got you know the really good ones happen to you so and those create specific residences that that don't necessarily represent what we hear if i were to do a CSP measurement with one of those couplers there'd be all sorts of residences that are inherent to the human auditory system which i feel the brain filters out so what I actually did was I built a custom coupler well let you know more about the details if you're interested but I don't want to sidetrack it too much but essentially what it does it tries to minimize the effects of the year the canal at the same time trying to be realistic of what we actually hear the human brain is very very good at filtering them out no as I there some math behind it and so basically littelfuse out I'll gate convention response and by gating it because low low frequencies have a very long wavelengths they're not going to be covered and essentially filter out there but i can i'll bring some examples tomorrow you'll answer that question it's better to show rather than to try to explain so if you tell us a little bit of what we're looking at here in terms of the color the color hues invade well the very left 200 out its 200 Hertz is going up to 20 20 kilo Hertz in terms of debris nations you know a way to think of this is sort of a frequent frequency response over time it's not exactly like that but essentially if this were a perfect headphone at the very back you see a wall and then a modulator they would just drop a zero for the stretch marks go go just go just be evolving and just place your a walk along if I never intend to kill any ridges any extra information that's stored energy and with with a measurement system that I developed this it tends to focus more on a driver rather than the enclosure there are some enclosure effects is it accurate to call whose residences yes especially if their riches for this particular headphone and I don't think anyone's going to guess at this this is the freedoms frequency response for the head felt it's not very good it's extremely Basie and its guys got a lot of high truffle energy that's a monster beef I've got monster it looks well it's little worse than them but a lot of hobbies enjoy the step come because it sounds like a subwoofer attached to your ear in Venice it's really sparkly on top and the bid ranges sacré yea rather sucked out going back to that sales for illicit I would is this is this that i dented d7000 it's a closed headphone it is definitely regarded as one of the top closes hands a lot of aficionados what I websocket I like that I actually all right little brother who's a 25,000 and where I really had a shoe which was the high frequencies right there at 9k now that's a really sharp reach there and the fact that is really thin it's going to hurt ending in her minders and I think most most the folks here who are useless speakers it's gonna hurt me to do be clear I don't have your happy but is this little right over there to page now I write about a two minute now treasure subjectively evaluated headphones you pick this one's love it and then Apple were times and Rob's not so good this is exactly why it is there a checklist you say okay I want to listen this recording and it has this approach on Patroclus information well listen to this recording has this Lowell prequels the information one listen to this recording has female vocals or whatever you have so like a checklist so when you going up to these cams on start because both who's jealous I do have a set of ten reference recordings which I listened to you before I take these measurements and I like to look at my notes just to make sure that you know these measurements are reflective of what I hear and poorly against the same the sacred under we have a--your when you're damaged speakers measurements versus your you know subjective perception of what that what would it were that quick to put down Iran so we've had your daily headphone so I meant under certain measurement that you prefer poorly you know some things that you put up with you know as opposed to you know other I mean I guess my question is when you're evaluating are you looking for free look at your med res version no yeah so you're putting on and taking how I eat and then you and then you go get away around get what I liked it exactly and over time I started finding patterns things that would bother me because that would it you know this is this headphone has a pattern that bothers me may not bother other I'm speaker guy and I'm also a DIY speaker builder and something like that is completely unacceptable oh that's interest for because I come from the speaker world and yeah like I said I like because that's it is all subjective you said it really is I'm gonna side measurement i SPECT but all you know and i'll guarantee you you know with the cluster will follow us all speaker major like that it's you know i'd like to see some comments let's go into the next one here I don't think anyone's going to be able to guess this one either this is one of my favorite headphones it's very bright and so open anyone can guess pretty good hp's I was actually an HP hundred okay so wasn't fun it's an open headphone very clean let's go ahead got a minor residents there broad residents around 5 56 k some folks I've mentioned I snare drums can sound a little bit hard but overall it's that it's pretty good it's a little bit recessed as you as you head up towards the trouble in that blue between 501k explain what's going on you know that a lot of those a lot of the area there that's that's one of the major titles one of the reasons like cut that area off those tend to be ret effects from the enclosures and it's that data really is not eerie here you're coming so is that mechanical vibration is not the cat the capital residences within the air yeah idea where this I was it back but take a look at that that's close cut phone so you see more of that effect and these measurements kind of go down much farther minus 36 that's four decimals down definitely a a little bit more than what you see in this very loud magazines for something pretty deep to see what the behavior is now how does that work sometimes i do have six hundreds i don't have them here just generally generally what do you see with with the 600 says there's a little bit there's a lot of energy with the HD 800 from 5k out the 600 spend to be actually you know what I don't have to 600 but i have no half measures for the 650s which are which are different which we're different with your different do 720 I actually do have 700 I don't know i will see those or will see those like I just gotta make the next one here yeah this is uh that little dip their that's a measurement artifact these things happen sometimes this is uh this is a headphone that has very very good bass extension it's a laid back towards the trouble on purpose the designer of this headphone I assume probably wanted to create a more speaker life presentation because you know what you got speakers in the room a jangle little way but not blasting your ears did anyone guess what this might be it's an open it's an open headphones it's very clean very very clean there there's a little bit of hash there around eight nine k's that is probably now this is obviously LCD two guys up yeah I just we don't take measurements the same way little different the way you do good most people i put my question is on the marked on the chart we've got a red and a green one daniela the two single life Green is and red is left and left upright okay and so you got that dip he says artifact guess so you can disregard that disregard that okay move the hip bone centimeter and goes away move the millimeter a millimeter and goes away or volume half millimeter it's just it's just the nature of measurements I think that was caused by I played tone sweets and I just couldn't hear it because I mean I can still hear up there round 12 okay hopefully it kinda said Harrison right i think was a combing effect from the move that the microphone you know that shows so hot pole structure you know with with headphones uh you know what i mean by measurement system iowa i would I wouldn't give it I'd give it plus minus and why this is sometimes I might too I'm not too precise with with with that you know just take it away no salt but generally kind of headphones I here within plus minus y you're not gonna notice it's really really hard to notice in fact these headphones on and which one minus for them or 40 the apartment in two channels there and the low frequencies yeah that's love frequencies when you're waiting from around 500 hurts a little bit of a gap there move on this one it's very well known it fell the very popular even right now but this was a couple years ago open up open headphone really really fun it's got a little bit of midday Sun midday stop very interesting mid-range I guess guitar players were folks really like the guitar sound love this headphone a few years actually it's a great artist once and my god right after listening to it's a fashion vintage bus where we show there's an artifact room for which one is in part especially our swimmers yeah this is uh you know what when I started out I had the artist once but i don't think i had this particular bottle when i had the artist once it was 1998 and back then i believe it had to paint drivers or something which are based a little bit closer to the joe raedle models for much more neutral I you know these probably can last a couple minutes before I really think they come up there a fun have fun and a lot of fun a lot of guys like them a lot of guys got their start with with the Gredos I'm even worked with but they do really well I'm not too sure what they do well well well those media see and then I'll exotic we missed live in the crash typically I should have brought the video pulse response for this it's a very lively very fun headphone very forward lady just truTV older style like the old cost pitbulls that measurements for an old cost letra stab at fremantle arm and that's that measures very well so in terms of you know using the graphs to choose a headphone is there a way to how to incorporate graft into your headphone selection process well I like things that look like that you know the LCD to my way things that look like that d HD I'm sure there is much cleaner they have frequency response aberrations and again as I as I mentioned going back to that first slide in a lyric were the early stages of headphone development I hope to see no more better linear distortion that is you know flatter frequency response and as I said nonlinear distortion is very good and a lot better control with with the residences the winning these these two are very good examples I mean they're they're my two favorite dynamic headphones right now for a good reason so going back to your earlier statement moving accurate to say they perfectly neutral headphone and that would exist would be that well his brother Bobby the terms would would be a wall and some people may not like perfectly neutral drobo speakers tend to be slightly dark when you measure them I've circle how she's feeling you know you said about her inner image he was so careful measurement exactly so the better you get Gail to turn to account for all the residents of those do that are not in hearing echoes of they do feel that you're measuring easily a lot more a lot better feel when you look at measure down at me out like round pick of headphones from now because right now you're still developing my question is for Alex another has a pet backward you said you don't you don't measure like this you measure a different way the dummy head no we also then before we install the driver ends in death poem because your once you install the driver and put that cup on your ear it all goes away it's just one so we measure before we put the driver into the cup we measure on an IEC backbone to make sure our QC is correct and everything is within our tolerances once that passes then it goes into the confidence installed but when you're voicing like well I can't speak your daughter you know that's your voices are certain things that you probably but if you take that your consumers respond I guess Alex White House a good inside there because he's also a speaker military obviously the Odyssey clerks they kind of other started designing minorities becomes that dummy head it's very difficult to see what's gonna happen because even a slight a screen position you're gonna get different rizal he's not yet and then everybody's here years here are shaped differently are you are you looking for certain that everything else figures on the trade-off right so what do you like when you're designing your need for finality is far as imaging thus far yeah but that's that basic you're cooking for us we're looking to have the fastest driver that would possibly can you imagine item grafts were lit up for consumer headphones is I mean you can use them to check whether or not you like you know that there was a justification you liking something but still they put them on your headless I was going to say correct ice how I always joke yet about my hat on important I know if I get lost in music and forget even that fun but also for us I think we're the only manufacturer that sends an individual graph with each headphone that is made by us for me there have been many times I was like why are we doing this i'm going to set up this because it takes a lot of time to actually do that just just send each measurement with the head home print the measurement put it in their lineup serial numbers so i picked the special i was purchased for me yep i'm joe from super boy it's a reference it's just a graphical reference of what that driver did as it was attached to a dummy head okay so if i said i'm listening to your home ladies gather in the mail what channel is off do I just sit it back to you you said okay you look at the graph you're comparing I won't look at the graph will just take them apart while we re measure the driver and a loan make sure you're happy that's really article measure the driver on the picture or pepper on both so before it gets installed a a separate yes you can't say that because every time we reposition the headphones on the dummy had to change in say two minutes yeah but you've been locked position you can mark and walking fish doesn't help gotta go no hot dog there's too many tiny very tiny yeah kinda be amazed also in terms of the headphone measurements that we do with tile those are averages so in essence Kyle will take position 1 2 3 4 5 padded room together and those are the VFR specs bc ahead funcom so typically there's four to six positions in fabric together and some of us got our specs that we show that again is got the perhaps the ultimate way to do it because you're certain or take of those anomalies that you're you're seeing their kind of averaging other but it turns me being the most even keel what you do it if I think tov uses his approach oh my god alex says variables in the inside of your ear everybody everybody sigh hear your drum out silica canal just like we thought we go and try your luck on everybody has to change it because you can't get it with it because you're years older typical it took me forever to find a great seal for my wife method of being at a moment she is very now air conditioned to her attack she could be working and she literally can't hear you had walk right up to our region things that are we on years a lot of folks will have one tip type of 16 on is one ear a completely different tip in the other in circles she might just guys that I the alacrity true but 15 years so talk even the gene how natural closure what happens to the driver where it's longer than is gone how much research actually goes into the enclosure development itself or try to get some kind of standardization get some outcome that you want for us it took about three years to get the pad the way that we like it so to fit over the year to have a certain shape that can protect the sound into the ears I mean it took a few years for us but it really does the shape of a pad on the headphone is really going to affect the way it sounds yeah it's huge and even the phone that's used as either I mean we spent a lot of money and time researching the phone that we would use to the right amount push-on place so human that basically the measurement standards for me personally I don't put my money on the measurements even though I do believe in measurements in an IEC faculty so as the drivers standalone app and clean my cup against it I do believe in those measurements because those you can get pretty standard you know you can see a little lot less variation in your measurements interestingly enough there are headphone manufacturers of greater particular who do not take any measurements they do their headphones tuning strictly by ear and once they have the sound that John great oh and this team like that's it they do not do any measurements in fact typically the measurements that you see fredo at headphone calm or early months of cradle head from out there and it's not because John is anti measurement necessarily just doesn't think that they really impact what he does it his shock anyone who's visited greater at Brooklyn it's definitely a home considering the size of that plan it's a homespun operation for sure mama bird well done sir but he's w a manufacturer with a very strong reach the measurements yeah you've got kind of open the door here as to what manufacturers are making in terms of how they sound as opposed to measurements and I get what you're doing here but if I can just take maybe two or three minutes here if you had five hundred dollars only to spend on headphones what will each one of you purchase and why not let you or something I probably try to find a used LCD to be honest they go for more leather the webwork way wouldn't find in a book yeah I'm not just saying such a cat that but myself as well I don't know there is don't know is that maybe I try to get the baby I try to get my father stacks with 500 but I'll never happen well for me if you go a little bit over 500 at 699 there's a great pointer magnetic finding called hd500 something really good headphone in that point of magnetic style and hi-fi man also makes some other headphones that are very good as well but I'd say they g500 his mother Davis bad about George guy say I also want to say like for me it's just like anything else I'd buy you know I came up in the visceral high-end experience you know where I like actually touch me you know i like to make that you know that emotional connection I got indoctrinated into headphones by being a DJ and so for me all the variables matter meaning it's hard for me to really handle you wanna sleep you like someone asked me what are the best half of five hundred dollars well there's tons of variables that go into that so if someone asked me you know what would you recommend a 500 hours the first thing I would ask them is what style music deal love you know what what can you not live without what you listening too often you know what had ever you're going to be using all these other variables and then I approach that you know so consider a ride here that I have at home and i use it would be a parent you know that it's locked in so i take all those things into consideration from $500 DHD if the hd500 i agree George I mean it's a little bit more actually what about the HD 400 that's you may also need an answer those as well I thought the format is it okay oh yes united with you you know i was buying to actually like the done on t 2004 349 su a bad can discontinued but that was interesting headphone with certain recordings that had a certain synergy with others perhaps not not so much but you know what's that's been major question we get a bedroom every day it will cause the day what's the best headphone from that point on he really had to kind of break it down just like he's got the same you have kind of asked books where they're coming from musical taste is certainly big butt butt so there's no awareness are you on the moon where you're you're listening is it something that you know how are you analytical list are you being a more got it just wants a TV kind of sound you know we can kind of died in from those perspectives but what what's the best headphone that's always the tough question to answer also what are you plugging it into I would say there's certainly is something along those lines and when you listen to a lot of headphones in a row you know they can't tend to have I mean I'm not sure how long focuses audio memory really is some people argued so nobody second or two the device will tell you it's a week so it's always hard to do that that AV comparison and had it really be an honest a bee comparison we try to frame it as such in audio tapes in this head invisible but to the different volume settings are so he is the subjective experience obviously get a headphones loud out the other your brain can't hide out that's the better see those needy comparisons and Stroke give you a little bit tricky whether you come out to the booth with some type of headphones in a row or even you do so I think that's the same kind of force becomes yes the relevant food here is good Psychostick to change it's a great question it's like going to bestbuy trying to pick out a TV if you have a large like 50 TVs you're like that's the one I just have that experiment really that's not the one that's trying to say sir question you guys going to take a oh that we're advancing technology the enclosures now we have any air molded headphone you envision a time water you could have we spoken closures where they measure have some kind of measurement of your ears and then as a bachelor can give you the inclusion of a perfect either that it might have problems be aware headphone to the certain pressure forces so I own a pair that was fantastic you know sounded but it was aliens watching the market hurt you see somewhere that aligning that would be the bathroom I see a exactly we talking about think about four years now as the personalized measurements and grasp or for each user as well as potentially taking 3d models of their actual site of their face to make real custom iphone just like they do with the molds for your face yeah that's it's in the work sexually but then again you would think you are going to have going custom old rules for me to have completely different missions and the custom mobile for this crap so these all those you don't say what we're just going to throw those measurements out a window and because it's still better than slapping an artist named go that doing what with the IEM stone we bought ultimate ears by foot custom in your bed Jerry saw and believed they just came out they've announced some new service where you can actually walk into their offices at the point set of customized that the frequency response team to how you would like it I was it's really more tailored for us studio interviews at their office to run yeah the Georgia got 1146 I know if you guys want to do been where price breaks one doesn't do experience my life had closer decide sometimes for a particular market or global let's set a bike in her simple like American sample of speakers preferences shruti idea absolutely like he just made reference or a certain big company that attached a big baby artists to it and they sold a ton of headphones well when I got a pair of notes to review when I listen to them were they as good as my reference iPhones are far from it but I said look there they looked at their audience and what their audience is listening to him and no one could deny that they we can we can all improve that big brand they look at their audience the newer their audience wanted they knew that they were driving around heart pumping face that would rattle you know my mini mine but you know and it worked you know good or bad no its business goes totally right is your right is the guy you know i'ma get high right through thing but yeah who would be sitting here with all these other head put my back into dancin explode and you know Andy when i reviewed two solos you know how you and I laughs I said yet my favorite feature was the control talks and I use a mess headset but I said you know what in my review I said I'd love to tell you what he's headphones I would love to because now I'm going to hear from all my audio friends and I'm nuns but I'm gonna tell you that they were designed for a specific audience and work for that audience and you can't deny that sales and you're right what happened additional got his load of fans t-shirt if we know was the really good thing happen a pic of minded is dre me as important to his demographic yet and you can argue whether or not vinyl or whatever but all music slide it makes anybody smile it's like okay I'm just you're the only information he turn these kids on to better sound than the white earbuds my son now stole my uh disease you started habit we thought they were cool now is it so what's better so I like growing growth here here in the Chimera minister you guys don't unity is actually the guy responsible for infiltrating the beats in the consciousness of North America was about that trouble a little bit it has pretty good effect there's not very much information up there in terms with national instruments while Liz it sounds good it just lets you hear the harmonics gives you at least in the sense of a more detail or here and what's interesting is you know Alex obviously you know this is an American company you know what do we like yeah you know let's get some bass hanging up not just trouble we want some bass so you know I do feel there's a little bit of that and what's really interesting is you go back to the HD Hydra when it was being developed you know I've heard rumors hey while you guys been a voiceless different voice it to to bother European mark Harry you know when you bring this over to the US reagan by going to voice it for the US market and Indiana decided not to and with many many the the headphone fanatics I I think there was only a little bit bugged out the fact that the HD hundred wasn't voiced a little bit more to what Americans like Sir do to xbox willing to go over latest content I actually do have all the stacks headphone measurements this one in particular is the SRO 7 mark 2.1 thinking here that a little bit it's definitely a very laid-back headphone you can see the the lower trouble permits are recessed very well it performs very very well the 1k aberrations there those are definitely caused by the air pants in the haircut that's right it seems like when you listen to head sometimes you hear more detail you've never heard George people that's a little now is that real where's the reception well it'll the resolution of it you're really in essence in certain create headphones here are at that mastering a recording session on us it's as close as you can get to being inside the museum these Tom can't see so we can mediate Sam I think it is a more detailed more resolved through the top headphones I mean like those set before those $1,500 sennheiser HD 800 or we get that level of speaker performance you'll probably be in that 15 to 20 grand terrain if or so again the bank for the above there's significant well agent which speakers reproducing that bitch getting Washington Post it's part of it that's part of it but I'll tell you what's interesting is to your question has a music reviewer for years I just relied on by reference system you know what speaker is my entire my big plan take system and I noticed recently thanks to a deluxe you know others who have really taken my headphone experience to another level that when I listen to an album in my reference system you know obviously I get this emotional connection which is the most important thing for me what I want for any system new headphone or highlights to just get the hell out of his own way and connect me and use it but I found now that when I was into and out of my system and then my honest mr. Niles on headphones it's almost like I can tell when some records are mixed for headphone listeners because there's so much transient stuff going on that even though i have a very resolving system how to say I do it's almost like now when I review music i use both where before i just use the references what if you had make a choice Lucien speakers your head from now on just personally personally to be honest at this point it's really hard to answer that but because I'm still of the beta music to me as a visceral experience meaning i love having music you know hit me and I love experiencing that because that's how I promotionally now with headphones i can connect emotion but i still prefer that visceral experience somebody better headphones now for giving me that same experience which actually blows my mind because I never thought I'd I mean now what I'm hearing with his and a decent headache you know that it's blowing my mind so so Ted closer right had four yet the reference systems but what else so you don't think it's here that it was your own you're always in the sweet spot yeah when you were missing speakers you have to be the same spot here absolutely the great thing about your hair's a little bit then you're out you know you always want wearing your head so it's always a sweet spots and to make some measurements tomorrow up between speakers drivers and headphones headphones just have an amazing low amount of nonlinear distortion they're just so clean in terms of being able to capture that low-level information it's just all their speakers you know the other the other issue of speakers they're designed to really move or move a lot more here and now you know when you're comparing miniature devices that are much smaller transducers that are up here there's definitely advantages in terms of a amount of air that needs to be moved to distortion but i will thanks everybody for coming to its really kind of fun i hope you guys enjoyed it what we're doing it again between 1 and 2 p.m. tomorrow and we'll help you know all kinds of different questions and hopefully a further a decision Alex doesn't have a little sale specialist mentioned yeah there's a slight show special if you visit our booth we're giving three hundred dollars off the LCD to and 150 oft LCD unnecessary 300 off the LCD 3 & 2 150 FDL cd2 and sentence our backboard for giving a hundred dollars own show specials so let's stop on by let's go thanks again guys want to see you tomorrow at one