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welcome to the 359 I rode Chang I'm Alfred Eng virtual-reality is supposed to take you to whole new digital worlds Oh hackers get involved and may become a crazy bad trip Albert you wrote about the potential dangers of this what should we be worried about so yeah a research team from the University of New Haven in Connecticut they demonstrated in this proof-of-concept attack that they can basically go into like your VR like software and then adjust where the digital walls are so when you're playing like a VR game you can like set up the walls so that you can you know look around but you won't bump into the wall like in real life right what they did in there you know malware that they wrote was essentially they could move the walls like accordingly so like you wouldn't notice where they're moving because you're doing like so subtly right and then like they can make a person like walk into the walls in one example they didn't really do this but they said it was like entirely possible that they could lead a person like to fall down the stairs because when you're wearing the headset all you're seeing is like what's in the game right so that was one of the examples of the malware that they had you know written for their experiment now just be clear like these tests assume that hackers had already gone through the computer that also does encryption right yeah so it was basically only looking at the VR system security itself not your computers so they they sent it through an email to like compromised a computer right but a suit I asked them you know what if they send this on like Gmail or something like that you know it's pretty it's a pretty like robust like antivirus system yeah Gmail plus like the anti virus on your computer itself like wouldn't they be able to detect this and they said yeah but that's not the point of like the experiment the experiment was more so about finding out like what VR itself could protect right so I mean the the theoretical dangers are there it's interesting to discuss but for a lot of these systems that are tied into expensive computer systems that generally have strong antivirus protections it's not exactly a practical threat yeah all right so let's talk about Apple the tech giant is reportedly getting into the news business or basically taking what left of its texture acquisition and folding it into its Apple News team there's obviously a free Apple News Service now but they want to create a premium this a plan for some time this year what do you think I mean it's I feel like it's gonna come down to how much it cost I don't I don't think I'd pay for that considering there's so much news out there that's free right now just a minor texture which is sort of like a Sebata v for magazines is ten dollars a month obviously the service is still going on but I could imagine something similar Apple already has Apple music which is a subscription service so it's I don't know if it's that Star Trek yeah especially if it's magazines like I I read magazines for free through my library app so I don't even really like see a reason but maybe if it's a curated selection of the best articles from multiple magazines but we'll see t-mobile is a hot war with the FCC the nation's third largest carrier admitted to injecting fake ringtones or dial tones into calls in rural areas so customers wouldn't realize that those calls actually weren't going through t-mobile settled with the FCC will pay forty million dollars to the US Treasury I mean I I'm just curious about why t-mobile would do that in the first place like why wouldn't they just acknowledge for customers hey this phone call is not going through like it's such a weird like so SIBO effective from what I understand a lot of it was to get out of being blamed for that call not connecting if the call doesn't connect you're like a crappy t-mobile with the call if you hear a ringtone you blame the other person for not picking up the phone it's kind of a shady practice but the call isn't connecting though no no that's a thing customers don't know that if they hear a ringtone they assume someone else is on the other line just not picking up so what this is just kind of like a cover-up on there and it was like hey we actually do have service here even though like they really didn't basically yeah if your customer you're you're less likely to blame t-mobile if you hear ringtone than if you hear the call disconnecting oh damn t-mobile and service it's important that Verizon also settled a few years back for doing something similar this is not an unusual practice before the end you know obviously forty million dollars it's a bit of a drop in the bucket for this it's a slap on the wrist for t-mobile which last quarter made about three billion dollars a years yeah me too for more on those stories check us out CNET I'm Roger J I'm out for rain thanks for the sing it was a dramatic pause you kind of slipped in there and I looked at the clock was like whoa we're way over let me make it more over by pausing a little bit another second all right now's the time for every to go ahead and submit any questions and comments about today's topics or even anything else that's at least tech related and we can try to get to them I'm gonna go ahead and call this out right now Roger your headline is total clickbait which one for this video yes we didn't mention a lot more manic no I mean okay so the consequence is that we got syringe or in the chasings what are the upper limit of consequences of this hack just bumping into walls or like what a potential heart attack because the hacker made you walk off a cliff I mean let's remember right now VR is pretty tethered yeah yes although there are wireless systems coming sure what are some of the biggest threats I think the point of the research was to like take a look at you know because we are still emerging like what are some issues that they're going to need to address like as this gets bigger and deeper and into more homes and things like that and like you said as they do get like wireless and there's not like a big wire holding you back from like hitting the wall or anything like that is it mostly just like pranks like getting you to like no there's a bit I mean what else can you do that's the point that I talked to about like that I talked about the most just because it's the most interesting to me but I mean there's other aspects of it like they can like the same thing with like standards of like other breaches like they can like get you know how like you have to set up a camera also as like part of the scan or you have to scan through they can get like footage from your camera okay there as well right that's scarier than than like misg I know yeah yeah of course it was just like you know trying to find something that like separates like what's the difference between like you know a virus that like affects VR versus and fires that affects your computer in general because you know any any like a malware could also get access to like your camera on your computer yeah yeah so it was just like how do I separate it for like something specific and that is I mean it wasn't it's probably the most unique type of hack yeah literally hack someone's sense of direction sure it's it's an interesting call so maybe not the scariest aspect but I think it does as Alfred pointed out it sort of kind of underscores the broader issue of whether or not VR might have a security problem yeah like in the video that that they put up and that's in our story it's like this bow and arrow shooting game for like the HTC vive yeah it's like available on Steam VR you're only supposed to stand in one spot for that game like you only you look around and then like you shoot an arrow and like people coming at your castle or something like that in the video that they demonstrated even though the game you're supposed to stand in one spot he had moved like across the room while playing how did he do that did he like how do you how do you not know that you're I don't know they I mean it's I think it's because you're so like immersed in the game that like you don't you're like slowly in gender direction yeah that's what the point was like if you do like subtly enough but yeah I don't I don't know like what like real dangers there are besides like bumping into already you know it's only become super intelligent they they've brought up examples where I'm like I don't I don't think that's a likely scenario where it's like you know if you if if there was an assassin that wanted to like kill somebody through the window if he's not standing by the position you by the way I don't like that that's really that's if ik use case my story but I'm like that's just very specific yeah yeah and it's gonna happen like right so I need to kill this guy personally they said this video yeah hooked into this VR game it's yeah they've got a hack the VR I'm like he's probably gonna walk by the window at some point anyway I don't really think like our system is the way to do it but yeah I mean that's I think they're more so taking a look at I think the underlying issue for them was that they could have done it so easily right um they they bring up the fact that like there were no like safeguards within like the VR system once they broke into the computer right if if somebody like hacked my computer they wouldn't be able to get my passwords from like a password manager cuz it's still encrypted they're like even though the computer itself is compromised there's like several factors of like sensitive data that like they still wouldn't be able to get that was their issue of this with like all like the VR software that was like super simple to get right into it it didn't have its own yeah hunter is asking do you think with emerging technologies and equipment in places like hospitals or banks they should seriously think about multiple security flaws that could come and now let's go ahead and apply this to we were talking about virtual reality let's take a very small pivot over to augmented reality yeah and how that's being implemented in different healthcare technologies could that be possibly at risk I mean the the ideal example I always get with augmented reality is in surgery basically like you see a digital map overlaid on top of the body it sort of gives you instructions on where to make the incision or you just get data right you get like vital information on the upper left corner as you as you're doing the operation you can easily hack that so the digital information is completely different right like I don't know I mean theoretically patients you know the patient could be dead and like the wife vital signs are still going or you know give you the wrong information in terms of where to make the incision these are all theoretical risks I don't know if it's all possible I don't know how susceptible a our systems are to hacks but that's kind of the nightmare scenario that people would present when I think of emerging technologies for you know hospitals universities and banks any kind of business really I mostly think about the like many Internet of Things devices that they're putting in like hospitals and all these like places now that are really susceptible to write attacks and you know the I mean they can get it like fresh and like brand-new and if they don't patch it within like you know six months or anything like that I'm sure there's some vulnerability that's like available for it and that's the like issue is that like when you get these like shiny new gadgets when you get them at scale when you get like I don't know let's say you're like a 15 floor like hospital with like 600 rooms or something like let's talk about connected bedpans yeah sure and then so that's like what like six hundred different bedpans what you're gonna collect all of them and then like update them all at the same time and all this stuff that's like one aspect of it that that like is really problematic and that's like something that you interface with like every day there's also other issues with like even something small wears like a smart thermostat like just to like control like the temperature of like your hospital if you're not updating that regularly and that's like one thing think about all the new tech that like a hospital would be getting like that to me is like the bigger issue right yeah strange ROI points out the potential for a really cruel joke that someone could play VR for the elderly and those with dementia and other similar issues what if they get hacked and somebody tries to employ a horrible jump-scares yeah that was actually one of the examples that they pointed out when I was speaking with them there there was another scenario where you can put ransomware into like the VR games itself basically like instead of the game that you want it to play it's like just something like screen that they show and they're like hey you've been hacked send your money like here if you like want to play your games on VR ever Wolff Wow that is scary stuff when you really get down to it even though we kind of dismissed it in the beginning however a lot of people in the chat are more curious about what is a more imminent threat and let's pivot over to t-mobile Alex Mitchell is asking can you explain a little more on the t-mobile thing I have a t-mobile phone and I get fake calls all the time the end after just a few seconds I get that - that's different though that's a completely different thing and really this is a problem if you live in a more rural area where t-mobile's coverage has traditionally been weak to non-existent the idea again is these are these are fake ring or dial tones that get injected into the call so when you call instead of it going dead or going quiet you'll hear a ringtone you'll think oh someone's gonna answer and the known does and it was just just this just a mask from t-mobile to make you think like oh we're trying yeah it's more again it was more about yeah the creating perception and to be fair they say that this was some sort of inadvertent thing and they stopped doing this in January of last year it's just taken a while for the settlement to be reached Charlotte you know for them yeah I guess the idea is if you hear the ringtone you're not automatically assuming Oh two mobiles coverage is terrible just the other person is not picking up so it definitely is about helping their reputation so than passing the book kind of yeah scapegoating and in terms of the the to the question about sort of fake calls I mean those are those are bad calls like I would never I know you and I work in fields where we kind of have to take every call mm-hmm but if you don't recognize a number you should definitely not pick those two calls up if you don't have to it's not part of your job we need you a lot of random callers coming in if it's worthwhile they'll leave a voicemail exactly and they never did like these these random robot callers or they're just basically testing to see if the the line is someone worth picking up I do make it a mission though at one day I want to get all the way through and pick up one of those robot calls and get the human at the other side because eventually they're done I've done that yeah but I have a real artsy way of threatening them and I'm not going to reiterate my quote here because it's definitely not safe for work but I definitely made somebody cry one time I would just I would just say that that may not be worth your time because it takes it is satisfying though to just destroy someone really inconvenient experiences they like to hang up the moment they like notice that like you're upset cuz they're not actually trying to get like your info no that's why you got to play along oh you want to speak to me I love a free ship that's a lot of effort yeah dude so I love when they're gonna hang up right when your spiel starts I want Ryan to regret their life decisions that's all I'm saying you know if they're doing that pretty rough yeah yeah you're right or just they don't care that's true from Jay Brown how do they know that the call did not connect and is this happening with other phone companies so like I said Verizon has settled a similar issue back in 2015 so they they did do the same thing it's hard to tell that's the thing like I'm not entirely sure how the FCC like managed to really uncover this but you know one tip-off is if like it just keeps ringing constantly then maybe that's not a legit ringtone right if it doesn't go to voicemail it just sort of keeps ringing indefinitely maybe that's just the system putting in you know a fake ringtone in place or maybe no one wants to talk to you storm king why not admit that there was a problem and then announce a solution that would make t-mobile look proactive instead of reactive isn't that the question would you make a mature calculated part part of the issue and the other part of the settlement wasn't just about the thick ringtones there's also the fact that they had terrible terrible service in rural areas and they were told to clean things up to fix things and they just did get around to it yeah they just polished their pretty much I didn't even polish their turd though they just injected it with little bits of like stale candy I think this analogy is cut off the rails I'm trying here I'm not a writer let's turn over to Apple News Alex Mitchell says this is the true test for Apple could they sell dirt to a farmer people don't pay for news anymore though we've seen an actual statistical uptick right near Times The Washington Post Wall Street Journal CNN magazine they've all successfully implemented paywalls not seeing a magazine because it's a physical magazine no people pay for it people do pay for and subscribe to it people do subscribe to news quality news I think that's the issue and these the idea here is my guess is you're taking the best articles from various magazines and you're basically you're it's a free-for-all you pay you know a lump sum or a flat rate every month and you get access to all these articles that you may not necessarily have read because they were on the newsstands and not necessarily so here out of five for news here's a question though Alfred oh yes how is Apple going to actually curate this that's a good question baby well you know what they do that now I mean there is an Apple news section for iPhone users if you just swipe left or right left swipe left there there's a curated Apple news section people use it all the time in terms of who actually curates I'm not entirely sure I have staffing do it though but ultimately in the in the age of fake news how long until some controversy somebody slips their crap source through the the border and gets filtered into there and then a my difference is that they actually have like human moderators from where I stand there are there are folks you interact with like as a publisher I think we interact with people people at Apple news that that will highlight some of our stories we've had my Star Trek discovery profile from last year was like I was a marquee story on the Apple news one day mmm it's because we worked specifically with someone it's not a program got it got it got it I would worry just about something like an app store kind of situation where it's for sure I mean if it's algorithm based yeah absolutely but I think the idea if you're picking out and this is all theoretical we're not sure the surface is launch is gonna launch but if they're picking the best of us you're looking for quality you need to have human curators I agree I agree 100% because it keeps me employed hunter Mons on Apple news at $10 a month i could see older generation subscribing now I think that I mean he's not wrong but I think there's definitely more interest in it because people do want to be able to trust their sources again yeah I've at my home we've subscribed to texture for a while it's a shame that they seem to be cleaning house there but ultimately it's proven to be a good service here's hoping the apple doesn't screw again like I said no time to the Washington Post's all seeing an uptick in subscriptions there are people who are willing to pay for a trusted source of information but do you think that they see this uptick in subscriptions though because it's like we want to support quality journalism and then we're gonna you know directly contribute to like the New York Times or The Washington Post whereas this model would be more so like we want to make money yeah we're kind of giving it to like Apple that's a great question I mean you can make that argument for music as well music has generally been you can get for free yeah but like the difference with like so Spotify like I want to listen to everything and I'm willing to pay for that but if I want to support like a specific artist there's different ways for me to do it like I can go to a concert I can write buy merchandise I don't really think that there's like a similar that's a thing Apple music has been successful no no but my point with like journalism though something there's like a specific like outside way for me to like specifically support like the Washington Post or something oh I gotta go to like a Washington Post concert right right right and so for you like if you wanted to show support for that's yes if equality journalism you pay for watching yeah yeah back that's the counter-argument that's the thing we don't really know it's but it's not just the New York Times a washer there are plenty of other quality publications out there with their own I don't know fan bases that may be willing to pay but it's look this is all up in the air it's a lobbyist Theoretical we're not sure if the service is even launching yet but it's sort of an interesting idea that Apple would want to get into this business yeah Josh Boyd is asking would it be the same for everyone will an algorithm try to tailor it just for me it's not as we said very much algorithm based but it's from my experience texture was an opt-in scenario so you picked and choose exactly what you thought you wanted to read and I'm sure there's some aspect of it yeah yeah they'll try to suggest but it's probably sheet unless you subscribe to seen that they'll be like maybe you like TechCrunch no no kidding it's not like on Facebook where it's like I subscribe to CBS news plug and Facebook goes maybe oh like Joe's news and it's some guy in the base I like Joe he's cool this basement is very nice yeah let's take one more James H aren't there any other services for magazines besides texture no there are I don't know them off to your local library is a great source for free magazines you know I'm saying like online yeah I I recently started using it I've been like so my girlfriend girlfriend has a subscription to like New York magazine and she like gets it every week oh there's a new magazine I just like pull it up on the apps like cool keep the whole issue yep oh wow and it's free freeze nice yeah you kept mentioning how it would try to tailor articles specific articles is that something that has been outright said cousin Mike I thought it was all just issue to issue could just they still publish them as magazine it could be issued issue I only flow the idea of article by article because Apple News curates it that way they don't acetic urate by publication it's like that's an RSS feed kind of but it's it's curated right yeah basically here's the best of the best from various publications sure I just wonder are they gonna try to merge those two things together could be I don't know maybe it could be you have two options have you have you used Apple News I mean yeah I've liked yeah I've like skimmed it every now and then but like I don't I'll be honest I only do it when my I don't use it regularly but I always hear like really good things about it like a friend had like quit Twitter for Apple news oh wow like she said she gets all their news from similar to Flipboard right I don't know I don't use that either ever no wow I mean in the early days of the smart I used Flipboard a lot more like I don't use as much now but it's it's the same deal it's like curated based it's specific articles taken from various publications oftentimes publications you say you like mm-hmm but obviously it's more online stuff hmm so there are some options we're trying here footboards not and flip or straight oh is it yes that's great interested to see if anybody else out there would be potentially on board with signing up for some subscription-based news type this seems like the right time for them to be trying to pull this off who do you think they're gonna try to market this to but could this be a great opportunity for Apple to kind of expand outside of their little cult could be although it's not a little it's a pretty big one all right fine I mean it's the same folks or subscribing Apple music right yeah I mean there are options before why won't the subscribing to Spotify so okay yeah by that by that logic you know brand loyalty okay same words now I mean they rely on that but the goal with any business is to try to grow and this I think is a better opportunity for them then anything else they're doing right now potentially well that's thoughts sure we'll go fine all right we are out of time for the day unfortunately we are not gonna have any more live shows for the rest of this week sorry everybody it's my fault I have to do some traveling but we will be back next Tuesday that is the 22nd we will still have the audio podcasts assuming Ben knows we'll find oh you can still catch us in iTunes but yeah so if you like things you saw hurt here chicken sounds CNET like I said iTunes tune and stitcher feedburner Google Play Music and the Amazon echo will be there the next few days and then we'll be back on Tuesday with our video take care everybody we'll see you next week