Gadgetory

today is Thursday februari 23rd 2012 my name is Stephen Beecham I'm Brian song and I'm Molly would welcome to buzz out loud seen its podcast of indeterminate length it is episode 15 82 and we're super excited today because buzz out loud general counsel Gil Cabrera special counsel that might be more appropriate legal adviser legal advisor special special calculus Jedi Council with we really just work on your title every counselor chief whatever otherwise known as Gil SD in the chat room IE joining us in studio once again at lend his expert opinion on all things tech well my legal opinion you you are the expert here so you guys will embrace it you might as well embrace oh it's all relative right and if we sump you we won't be mad because that means we don't know the answer we won't even know that we stem to discuss the good thing is I could answer it and nobody would know yeah you could all see you fake it or you could also talk in circles like a nice did last week man man that was brutal wow that's a good guy he's a good guy but once the mics went hot right was like oh who is this robot that was implant like it was like a chip it was like someone flipped a switch and all of sudden was like dude not cool anymore he's a well-trained man he really isn't loud that you were there to see him off camera so that you can know that why I still like him cuz I could tell if he was like why would you why did you like I like him he's no no I think he's yeah Wow but once the interview what turned on it was like wow I had a list of like a 30 questions and we are you always like to Manisa nice also had a list of 30 questions that he would ask out or you ask a question how he plays the heat which you went MIT ask this let me ask you a question killed let me ask you a question did that to me too everybody hates my question let's make up coal analogies that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and still not answer a yes or no question I can answer that question instead I'm gonna answer it this question I don't want to talk about that say that anyways Gil we're really happy to have you here so I'm having me back yeah thanks for coming back to the house and it couldn't be a more appropriate show to have you back on actually cuz there is it's like privacy week I mean every week in tech seems to be copyright patent and intellectual property issues week so it's that plus though there's a ton of sort of exploding privacy news this week which is really interesting it's very interesting a for example just just kind of the top of the breaking news over him just the whole legal news that we have going on the tech firms a large group of tech firms including Apple Google Microsoft and others have now agreed for privacy protection for their mobile apps they've agreed to require developers to inform users explicitly about their data usage policy policies before they download the apps this is let this is really being spearheaded in California first but these policies will then be implemented across the board it's just that obviously when apps are available in a state or nationally and globally help if they adhere to California's laws and requests they'll also affect how their apps are a distributed and that message goes across the board you're welcome to world thank you we like to give you our laws whenever possible this actually does it basically puts the California Online Privacy Act global yes which is an amazing thing by agreement and it was already the Online Privacy Act already was one of the strongest consumer protection laws in the country as far as I understand for disclosure purposes yeah right and now it extends to app behavior as well now what we found though Google responded and said will you this is fun for us because it's exactly what we do on the Android all the time the the potential problem here though is yeah we've all seen we've all installed an app and been like whoa dude this app wants to do a lot of junk that I don't think I like okay because we want the app so a lot of privacy advocates have come out and said that's super that you now have you know globally tougher privacy privacy restrictions and disclosure restrictions than anybody else but the fact is these apps are still attempting it is still their default behavior to try to collect as much information as possible so the fact that they're telling you may not be enough what what really maybe needs to happen is that they just need to dial back the collection well and it's and it's just disclosure and the disclosure is going to be these big privacy policies again right though they can just do a link really from the even their website and then and that almost complies with the law and then the problem generally with privacy is enforcement there is no private yeah really no private enforcement that has teeth the good news about this is that the Attorney General who you know some say wants to run for governor someday has a lot of incentive to enforce this very aggressively so she'll she'll probably be looking after this pretty well but it's going to be up to the AG's yeah Attorney General Kamala Harris she's originally from the bay area she's what they're saying is that developers and platform providers that do not comply with the law can be prosecuted under you know the California's unfair law competition competition law and false advertising lot of penalties which would be up to five hundred thousand dollars per use of the app in violation so if she really wants to spearhead this and also use this as kind of one of her platforms of this is what I pushed out here for the state of California for the people of the world for the technology world oh yeah former DEA of San Fran's it would be in their best interest to potentially in the future if someone does actively now try violate this kind of kind of bring it to the forefront and kind of make a little brouhaha if someone does overtly violate this policy in the future yes we might see yeah well state's attorneys general are incredibly powerful and it wasn't until Spitzer in New York that really just showed everybody else just how powerful these positions were and ever since then they've just been flexing their muscles a lot more and there it's Anene they oversee so much areas of law they're the top law enforcement officer they have subpoena power they can do that you really don't want them up in your business and what she's saying is if you if you break these laws I'm going to be in your business and you don't want that and a lot of these businesses are right in her backyard totally so I think she has an added incentive in terms of enforcement and it's a little bit easier frankly you know and she's looking right down at Silicon Valley she's like I have my eyes on you I am right up the road and if you you know if you step out of line I will be right there a lot of this actually yeah and a lot of these CEOs are on her Advisory Council to that they meet the General Counsel's are often on their little about an advisory council so she talks to all these people so what we could could we hope though that the the existence of the laws could change the culture of data collection with it ya know it's I don't think well I think I think it's going to be the consumer the consumer reaction in and this week all the all these different articles we're seeing about privacy I mean people are starting to get concerned and over time I think that will build up but I still think ninety percent of consumers don't care yeah it's they're gonna read the statement not read all the fine print and just say okay no but the fact that that exists okay fine if something bad goes something bad happens at least they're going to be liable for it it's a start and the level of noise about privacy and the level of concern at least among that sort of small but vocal group of consumers has led to president obama finally officially unveiling or attempting to work with Congress to enact the consumer privacy Bill of Rights which will be unveiled tomorrow that's been something that's been in the works for a long time something that Aneesh Chopra has been talking at length about for the duration of his subjects to us did he get to that wee-wee-wee-wee I did we kind of you asked a question about the Bill of Rights but then he started talking about something else right I recall that quite vividly but it's been in the works for a long time it is now finally going to be unveiled and I think that that is it's not the timing is no coincidence this is definitely reaching a boiling point a little bit yeah I mean part part of its a agreement with the industry and that battle go into effect pretty quickly the part that's that's got some potential teeth is is the action Bill of Rights will go through Congress and that as we know nothing is going through Congress so that's I doubt is going to go very far yeah unfortunately but but the agreements the the voluntary agreements and everything else that'll that'll start going forward and again all these government agencies are becoming concerned about privacy and that's that's going to raise some issues yeah if you guys kind of want to break down at least just very generically of what the consumer privacy Bill of Rights will cover it'll give us the internet users the right to control what data is collected how our personal data is used and shared avoid having information collected in one context and used for another purpose right sometimes they might ask for like your birthday or maybe some of some of your demographics or your height or weight and then match that with the database that under this privacy Bill of Rights shouldn't happen you have control over that also have data held securely and to know who is accountable for the misuse of the data so this is it works on many levels the the thing about this is if we tie this into some of the privacy that we talked about in the previous story again it's going to come down to us just looking that ok button or not sure I don't I've got imagined I don't know if I'd see a company give us granular control within the app of what we want to give out or not let's say facebook says ok we know that they take a lot of our information they we know that they match it to serve ads we're not going to see a checkmark box I've use my information for ad serving for cut I just don't imagine us seen it in that specific detail and this is what the consumer privacy bill rights a loose without we can control in that manner but if it's not offer that way then it's either up to you to use the service or not use the service right and most of us are using the service well that's going to be the hardest I mean and we're going it will be annoyed if we get 15 different pop-ups to clear it each time we want to use it or one global one I mean that nobody's going to want to do that and there's going to be a lot of complaints and at the toughest thing about these areas generally is I sometimes I'm a temporary judge in San Diego and I hear small claims matter so one of the one of the biggest issues that I often face is people choose to do something and then the consequences of it they don't like and that's the hardest thing in our society right it's it's you know you didn't have to do that and you did and and and that's what all these apps are going to take us down towards is we're all saying sure you know what here's where i am here's where i'm going here's what I went and here's what I bought have fun with that well and I I mean I think I've been struggling with this for a while recently too because I've been thinking of myself as more of a ninety percent or in some cases like it i would think i think that could the rant that i want to write this week is like you know what screw it i like facebook and any at facebook to me has apparently a ton of potential problems in terms of privacy violations they've definitely done some things in terms of revealing information that i thought was private before that was kind of annoying but let's be honest it wasn't very valuable information and nothing that facebook has done to me is any worse than what my bank is doing to me on any given day right facebook is not the company that lost the database full of credit card numbers that caused my bank to turn off my credit card while I was traveling in New York City without notifying me so Facebook doesn't do that crap it's a safe place for me to put pictures of my kids up right I like it you know like it's it's a very it's sort of an interesting conversation I think that we have to be having about how much we should care because I think some of this the code of contact conduct the voluntary compliance that's all going to come from consumer pressure there's no way these companies are going to comply to the fullest voluntarily that just doesn't happen right because they know it's not good for their business and they know that ninety percent maybe even 91% don't care that much or can't put their finger on a discernible harm right and they can stop i mean you know i use facebook basically just to share pictures of my kids in and very generic things about life it's the private one I somewhat control who's on there and then twitter is different and and you can you can control these things so the interesting thing is when these companies start getting into all of these spheres and then they're able to you know like Google's new privacy policy right they're able to combine all that information I mean if you use Google Docs gmail you search on google and you have a few of google voice I mean they have a pretty good understanding of everything that's going on in your life and that's that's where it becomes concerning yeah absolutely and that I think people don't know about right I mean I I I think that a I think you're right a congressionally past privacy Bill of Rights would be important that there would there could be uh and and it's important because it addresses not the stuff about Facebook right it addresses the stuff about the companies that Lulu's the giant databases of credit card information that they obtained from data brokers who are super shadowy companies that are collecting unbelievable amounts of information about you behind the scenes that have nothing to do with the really relatively minor stuff that path and Facebook and Twitter are collecting about you that's serious information that in some cases being traded sold and unprotected to our extreme detriment and that i think you know it's easy to get distracted about what we're really talking about with privacy that's the stuff that Congress should actually take issue and that's the stuff that right now there's almost no remedy for when they lose your credit card data when they lose your privacy data there's there's not a whole lot you can do about it but you get this free monitoring you know for a year thing yeah you get you get a lovely disclosure that hey we lost your stuff sorry and that's about the extent of it yeah that's that's where the problem and it's like a nightmare by the way because if you ever turn on the fraud protection and that you know they didn't create that like my credit card gets declined i would say every two to three weeks because i have fraud protection turned on and so then it's always so I go on crap you're at the airport you're no you never shop at that store before and I'm always standing there like I swear to go to pay my bill if anyone is gas cuz gas is the first thing because it always shine down really yeah first thing people do is they make my guest a shame Oh gas is expensive right I know I know apparently I learned once when my credit card was stolen but it's because at a gas station you can authorize basically a dollar worth of purchase and it will let you know if the card is good so then no that's why everybody tries it first to make sure the cards still good well there you go anyway thanks for that inside too now I know way too much meanwhile also in privacy tip web firms now that this sort of privacy thing is growing and everybody so freaked out about it a coalition of Internet giants including Google have agreed at long last to support a do not track button to be embedded in most web browsers which is something they have been resisting for more than a year yeah this is a the interesting thing about this is that the new do not track button it isn't going to necessarily stop all the web tracking companies that are part of this have agreed to at least stop using the data about people's web browsing habits and serving customized ads but they've not agreed but they have agreed not to use the data for data sorry for employment credit health insurance purposes so the data that they collect still can be used for some what they call market research but not anything that's targeting anything personal and a product development see when I think of market research and product development you need these things so it becomes very gray when you're trying to define okay what can we collect what can we not if they're saying if they're saying okay I'm not going to use you know where you live and your age and your sex and whatever for your you know for any health care or ad serving that's fine but I am going to use that information to figure out the other people like you and how they're using this product this way they're going to use here going to use they're going to use it you know how you go Falcon in the chat room just that by the way that's awesome name that's like the name of like a sword uh I give the do not track button about two months until it stops nothing well there's no just fit everything into though I mean if your bucket is market research and product development it's like they do not call this right i mean i still get called yeah constantly yeah I on all my numbers on the do not call this geez the other thing that you guys can do right now I'm not sure if you guys have checked it out or not but there's this actually really cool trap plug-in or extension called Do Not Track plus and what it actually does is you can installed on Firefox Chrome and Safari yes it works on safari as well Wow but what it allows you to do is it's a little indicator on the top of your browser and it will prevent your website your your activity from being sent out it's pretty scary because it shows all the ad networks all the other hooks or you know tractors behind the scenes that your information is going to it blocks all that activity it still allows you to interact with Facebook and Twitter but it just doesn't broadcast as stuff as freely as it normally does so I would it's a free extension I would definitely suggest you guys check that out because it's scary the list I went to CNN and there were like 10 to 12 different things that it sends out to normally but with that plug-in it doesn't yeah just just seeing that list is almost worth looking a little scary yeah its so-called Do Not Track plus you guys can check it out it's it's not a pimp it's an actual tool that you might want to use uh this in this case the do not track button would not block companies like Facebook from tracking you when you're logged in through the like button and all that so another giant loophole that is apparently right they like these all these larger Internet giants are agreeing to a do not track button up to a certain degree exactly not a it's not a truly do not track button we will we we and the app developers will take care of ourselves yeah Thank You app developer and when they agree to it it's like they're they're in control of what they're agreeing to it you know that's they're going to limit it as I so they can use it I mean that's the problem so basis so basically all this privacy stuff is mood I enjoy well you just have to kiss have to yeah figure out with yourself how how much you're willing to share and then control it i mean that's that's ultimately yet you have you still have the ultimate control over it and our lawmakers need to solve the real problems instead of the sexy problem totally like it's not about facebook like I said look for a column on that later today um so basically when it comes to privacy we are doomed we are though assumed apparently as poor for tmobile oh my god which ouch which as the Wall Street Journal describes it describes it had a quote brutal recent quarter brutal well let's just say how brutal in the fourth quarter alone remember t-mobile did not have a certain phone that has helped drive sales and the numbers for a variety of other carriers tmobile said in the fourth quarter t-mobile USA lost 800 into eight hundred two thousand contract customers revenues dropped three-point-three percent from the quarter from the previous quarter year before companies the last major US carrier as well to announce its LTE plans it's been questioned whether they even had enough spectrum to be able to launch LT now you do know that in the AT&T deal that fell through one of the concessions is that they received us I can't remember X amount billions of dollars in cash i can't remember how much yeah but also some roaming agreements and additional wireless spectrum yeah which you would think they would use to launch the LTE plans but again how much do they have how effective will it be it's t-mobile this is not really the one of the larger carriers it doesn't look very good and with no end in there looks like there's no other company in sight that's gonna that wants to pick them up or scoop them up for their assets or can yeah I mean cuz verizon can't buy them yeah so basically right now three networks anyway even though they block the merger we're gonna have three no yeah exactly US cellular that works out well okay see in Nevada when the cherub just said this will just make it easier for 18 to you to buy them a few years because they'll be so small and virtually defunct that it won't create a monopoly control or they'll just acquire the the parts of it right you know I their ads seemed to me such a metaphor for their condition like way back when they had Catherine zeta-jones a lot everything was cool now they have very acute / ad spokesperson but the ads are kind of low production and you're it's just that is sad because they're saying well we're not we're not the I we don't have the iphone but we don't need that yeah I mean they definitely they have they have bought themselves well they have received a tiny bit of the room in terms of that money the spectrum and the roaming agreements there is some possibility that if they have a really strong strategy that includes iphone uh that they might start to be able to rebuild I mean the fact is they actually in the in the areas where they have service they have good surface like I would say that at my boonies treehouse the so of the four tmobile works the best which is remarkable and if they could really start if they you know do some bold moves like sprint like get rid of data caps and and keep pricing competitive and really play up some of those unique features like the fact that they can do though the Wi-Fi calling there is some possibility i think but they have got to get a move on well they were among a disruptor like they said they were right they were well they were i mean they were the more they were the most because they had to they were the most innovative carrier with their plans they had the phone some of the hottest phones early on right they were willing to give those give those things to try the gal the end the first nexus phone was on their care they've done a lot of things but now you know everyone's mu not everyone i don't want to say everyone a lot of people decided that their next phone was going to be an iphone okay including people in this room no but but that point you'll downloads when I told him I got one of these what well I was surprised that she went from iphone 4 24 s that I should I had upgrade available that one I was like whoa anyway anyway anyway they need they need to do it even a lot more than me coming in of it they need a phone that people want I think they don't they don't have it it has to be more than that though because we even we saw from Sprint's earnings that you lose money on iphone that the iphone is a network killer so it can't just be that it's sort of like yeah would be they need to probably get that phone because it will bring subscribers in the door but then they've also got to innovate in terms of plans maybe some other hero devices because just the iphone alone will probably crushed well i meant they need they need a phone in addition yeah to the you know they need at least that champion phone in addition to some of the things that they've done in the past they need to bring that back any can't be the only one no iphone ashes but i don't ya I don't that just stops bleeding i think i think that stops a certain amount of bleeding if they have the iphone it doesn't necessarily bring them back the other thing I don't know is it's three billion a lot for for a company to wait for a big network company like this to actually you know rebuild infrastructure and things like that or is that a drop in the bucket of what they need to actually spend I that's what I don't know I never know where how much does that take that how beam is like a lot but you know it's a huge network so who knows yeah for t-mobile all right we're gonna take a break and reflect on their sad sad state of affairs when we did a story it's a sad story that story I know we're good they were good if nobody wanted them to be saved accept them and then now they're screwed and now we're like full but at least you're not evil not much consolation for them at all all right we're gonna take a break when we come back we're gonna have what I'm calling cuz I'm the only one who gets this joke blah blah blah blah block with guilt Cabrera and into it not into it Google you you welcome back to buzz out loud everyone brian Tong Gil Cabrera Stephen Beecham in the house I hope that you were all googling blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah okay lob el aww thank you I needed this early it's from Arrested Development there was a character named blah blah blah and he had his blah blah blah blah blog it was hilarious all right anyway we have a bunch of legal stories what I'm getting at starting with a letter from Microsoft's general counsel which sounds a lot like a lot more like one of those letters that Google's General Counsel's always writing it's like this it's an angry screed entitled Google please don't kill video on the web it's like a bad you know when you read a brief in the lawyer just takes it too far over the edge and respect really really that's just cliche and this the other thing and it just loses the point in it but it's fascinating oh boy that a lawyer theoretically wrote this or put amazing well the other funny thing is that it's not a letter to Google it's a letter to Motorola yeah it's a motorola mobility specifically so what's been going on in fact okay so what happened this week is that Microsoft filed formal complaints with the european commission against motorola mobility in google / smartphone patents microsoft contends that they had had this friend agreement it was very reasonable and non-discriminatory that's why he's here fair reasonable and non-discriminatory agreement that when it came to web streaming and other types of patents that would they only deal with Wi-Fi stuff video and Wi-Fi stuff patents that were essential for kind of daily use right watching video on the web that that they would agree to license their patents to each other under these fair reasonable and non-discriminatory terms Apple both Apple now and Microsoft allege that motorola mobility has not done that that they've been asking for exorbitant rates in terms of licensing basically a couple of patents it sounds like a fairly small number of patents which I think Microsoft has referred to as a couple of pager patents right look at the crazy thing about this is first of all it underlines the just a huge problems with the patents generally right all of these people have like 30 or more patents each all of these companies and you need a combination of all of those patents to do h.264 right and so that and and so when you set up that standard you all agree all right since we all have a piece of this we all have to wear homies we're in it together we built this city together all of us I built the sources that you built the electrical I did there you know this is this we're good but how much does patent law where to get to h.264 to work you have to cobble together 60 million pounds i mean that's that itself is part of the plan you have to have all these weird random cross-license we may run cross licensing agreements and this stuff and then what in in what as i understand it in the EU the EU will basically decide whether or not it's fair and reasonable price they've been a little more aggressive when it comes to their panning down decisions or when it comes to technology patent law which makes sense of why microsoft would you know file this over into the EU now one of the things when you talk about like the the pricing right just just the scale of all this what what Motorola is essentially doing is let's say you have like a thousand dollar laptop motorola because this laptop has the ability to play h.264 motorola would like or is demanding Microsoft payroll royalty of $22 fifty cents for about its 50 patents that it owns on the video standard now they're available there's the things this is from a pool of over 2,300 pounds that is needed all right they're available from a group of twenty nine companies 29 companies that came together ridiculously they wanted $22 50 cent royalty for every laptop sold wolna right now Matt macro sauce patent royalty for that group is two cents they want 2250 right and they Tet and I think the other difference is that i think the Microsoft approaches is a number like a it's two cents per unit or supply got and then whereas Motorola's doing it as a percentage so if you get a bigger laptop it's more expensive the price goes up even though it doesn't change anything in terms of which is gonna kill it yeah 2250 is on like a thousand-dollar exactly that's to two percent or something yeah exactly it's it's insane the entire patent pool has a royalty maximum of twenty cents per unit Microsoft pays only two cents thanks to the volume discounts motorola mobility is asking for much more the reason that microsoft addressed their letter they're hilariously and professional letter that just is what people do it it's David Drummond from google pioneered this I want to know that like a blog post blog the blog post letter yeah angry lawyer blog post it's like a thing thank you David Drummond um it's weird as a lawyer it's just weird to see lawyers because it's so very casual and like the way that it's better it just doesn't you know like I said doesn't feel loyally and yeah you know you've got you better watch so online so it's like it's all right and so apparently i will never do work for Google so Microsoft Microsoft Wow the reason Microsoft address the letter to Google is that Google has apparently said that with their acquisition of Motorola Mobility they have no intention of changing this pricing structure no thank you we do not want to play in your little Club yeah I mean Google's funny cuz they you know they're they're late to the patent party generally they it's clear they didn't quite get but they're bringing some swag but now but now they're like well then hey we're buying this company we happen to have some patents we can play here too yeah now they're going to directly like super hard ball and they're going to break everything what's totally kids with marbles I mean Apple and every was picking on Google because they everybody else had pats and Google didn't now Google's about require those pattinson look like haha that's right we got all these patents out too I'm sorry friend we weren't there when you agreed on your frandy I don't know what the brandy little I don't know what this freighter frenemies we're not we're not there frenemies rather and if you're not frenemies are in a fan of me is like this sounds French I don't understand we get rid of software babe patents now yeah that's right sure I i think you know did you should make getting patents harder generally across the board I mean I I see this all the time where you were having all these litigations over stupid old patents that's costing these companies a fortune when innovation and competition will do the trick I mean look at look at the fight between Apple and Google right now Android you know apple says androids ripped off all the stuff it's not exactly the same right it's not a copycat there's your stuff that's the same but Molly thinks apples winning that battle right now because she likes that the Apple exprience matter and that gets either and you don't need to have the billions of dollars expanded on this stuff but you you need to be able to issue patent so that you can reward innovation true innovation that's the issue and that's where it's hardened but to do that you'd have to have this hugely beefed up patent office that nobody's going to pay so at the same time I remember when we had talked about some of them I climber he's a real he's a realist I remember when we had talked about some of Microsoft's patents and how they're going after some of these tablet companies but you had chimed in the chat though at the same time it's like they have it once the patent has been given to them they have every right to go after it so are you kind of saying they need to make it more difficult to award these pads so that they're more more specific or not as generic so things like this can't happen the future because once you're granted it as a company if I'm trying to protect myself I'm going to go after them totally it makes sense and the system is in large part set up so that the you know it you get them granted and then you fight over the validity and the infringement in court which costs a fortune and so these big companies have a total advantage on it and these little companies that are trying to innovate are getting their butts kicked simply because they're trying to defend themselves and I've been on both sides have been on both sides of this fight and so I you know I understand the relative aspects of it but I I think a fix to it would be to take care of the patents on the front and more than the way we're doing it now which is we're just letting the courts and juries figure out what's going on with them and I think that's crazy but it would take but but to do so you'd have to fund the patent off so you could still get them quick because right you need them fast that's the issue couldn't you just find new computers at the Patent Office I mean let's be honest some of this does seem to be an infrastructure problem well do you say fund the Patent Office do you mean fund the infrastructure throughout the infrastructure the people i mean the number of people involved i mean these patent agents are totally underwater and and the other thing about it that is brutal is I litigate these things but I am NOT I'm not a member the patent bar I'm a trial lawyer and I bring in the patent lawyer to explain what the hell this means to me and then I get to explain to a jury and you read these things than they make no sense is like it is like klingon man you're like this sub mate now saying no you know what i mean i have a case involving wave machines which is not you know cut wave water yeah just wait over a surface not complicated you read the patent you sub equid I'm this you know I'm just I and and the paddlers like well that's obvious nobody is that obvious but you okay so you need to you need a tool it so the front end it's a very look at a business right now though my god we need to talk more like these are the lawyers it's great uh just a quick breaking news update before we move on to our next legal story related to motorola thanks for cano 7 to cano 7 in the chat room for pointing this out bloomberg is reporting that current motorola mobility CEO sanjay jha will be ousted really is out and will be replaced by dennis woodside who is a senior VP at Google oh and who has been leading the transition of the two companies reporting directly to CEO Larry Page but they're gonna leave butter a little low they're not gonna they're not gonna integrate their they're not gonna have their own people go over molar up Motorola's reading had company yeah them they're gonna let them be yeah kind of them be except for tho except for the entire leadership it's kind of just like we don't we don't control them but all of our people are there yeah we don't tell them what to do that makes sense make sense big news yeah alright moving on in legal stories today pinterest you finally got to talk about pinterest and you're like there's a story for you about the interest except for like two weeks while I was gone every was like no more about Pinterest I was like but I don't get it I was really annoyed actually when I saw the story come back nilay patel over the verge wrote a story entitled pinterest uneasy relationship with copyright law what happens next and i literally i saw that headline i was like dude Shh put it dick jeon off be right k is kill bay so i'm sure that other people were gonna think of this but as far as I'm concerned Neil I bless his heart nice guy smart guy big buzz kill would you just like Shh anyway he points out the fairly obvious concern visa vie pinterest which is that what you're doing is just reposting a bunch of probably copyrighted pictures and somebody's probably not going to like that thanks a lot new I the good news about it is that i think as i understand it to try not to be a bummer anymore let me argue for Optimus kill let me let's hear it the good news is that as i understand i haven't played too much with it but a lot of it is retail like pictures from retail sites and things like that right stuff you like and that may want to buy and it's and generally they own those pic the retailer's own those pictures they're not going to shut you down because they're they're going to get an interest they have an interest in you sharing it the problem is there's this huge issue out there and i've had a lot of clients to fall into it when they have for instance a developer in india do their website and the developer puts pictures that they found out in the internet of like office random office picture there and then they get this letter from some lawyer in the northwest representing Getty Images saying hey by the way that's our image wow that'll be three thousand dollars in the my client why I had no idea it doesn't matter and copyright lathers there's no intent required or anything like that it's strict liability and so for those types of images there's a problem and then they could use a DMCA a bit to get away with that but I think again the big thrust of it is the retailer's I doubt would go after them and that's the good news right the retailers and especially not given the fact that Pinterest is apparently quiet eat quietly changing user links as we know to make them referral links so that Pinterest makes a little money but so that it's a more direct funnel to commerce so that's good news but it absolutely a lot of what is being posted here our blog photos that may be professional photos that were lifted from google images or professional photos posted on someone's blog you know it's it becomes kind of a complicated system pinterest right now i think it part of the problem is they didn't have a mechanism to deal with this and it sounds like they don't need much of a mechanism they just need something specific a copyright compliance office a stated policy around safe you know their compliance with the dmca safe harbor laws which is what they're going to rely and now and hopefully that will be enough they will probably I'm sure have to whether a lawsuit the problem is the resources are going for the like I read it somewhere that though that their CEO was there copy an officer music on what a small here's the copier question of the CEO you're like oh startup you know but yeah they're gonna have to create some infrastructure for that cuz the other thing is you have to get through these dmca takedown notices with a surmount of time so yeah and that's the thing for a company right that's small and there's not like they have a large staff to deal with this that procedure we've seen it on YouTube it's not a very direct one it goes through many steps and loops and so if it's an image are they going to be able to make this you know as frictionless for them as possible to handle this so better on it depends on how many people complain about it yeah that's going to be the big issue is if they've got these Getty lawyers that are just coming after them and they're brutal names all cold law firms just set up to send out these that's my image you owe me three thousand it's like a flat fee right take it down and give me three and I feel like you're ninety percent of the stuff i see is eighty to ninety percent of stuff i see as retail pictures and that's why i think they're probably okay as long as they you know reinforce their their mechanisms I hope on the positive side but they just get one one little lawsuit that goes all the way to establishing true fair use precedent so that Pinterest can live forever I'm not gonna and then we can have a bubble I'm just gonna sit there go well maybe Molly that could happen yes sounds great she really wants us to happen the problem is because the is that with copyright law you're you're you're on the hook for attorneys fees and so nobody wants to fight that on the distance yeah I'd be happy to step in and i know i want you i want to be the one that can finally a sterile and true codified fair use it have to be a big company with a big war chest to be able to do that and i don't think that's been interest no Dave pinterest anyway I'm just saying any lie the first copyright lawsuit that comes down from this I'm just chalking up as you're at you happy cuz York it was your idea you're a copyright lawyer don't be representing them either alright amazon has turned off the Buy button on nearly 5,000 kindle titles from a distributor called independent publishers group after ipg refused to capitulate to Amazon's demand for better terms basically amazon continuing to ask for better pricing on ebooks publishers continuing to look at flicked aim and shoot twice double tap in their own feet anyway uh apparently they could not come to a group maybe not like I don't know I've just been annoyed by ebook pricing as publishers try to find the right the right sweet spots and then go ahead and just price them as more expensive than the print version which happens not infrequently about at all yeah yeah it's insane anyway they couldn't come to an agreement Amazon pulled the Buy button they've tried that before with one other publisher Macmillan and eventually they had to give it I mean look you're either gonna sell their goods or you're not yeah I mean the good thing here is from a from the publisher stand point is there's there's other places to sell your book still and so Amazon can't just dictate pricing like like a Walmart does to a lot of a lot of folks for their sheer volume and I get that Amazon from from the consumer standpoint it's good because they're trying to drive down these prices but you know finding that good middle where the publishers make money and the retailer can get good pricing ethic is hard and I think competition is a good thing here and thank God there are other people who have ebooks available yeah in the story the client publishers have also been pretty much extremely supportive of IP geez decision to hold their ground and tell them you there's still other places to get these books and it you know we don't see this immediate but it does give the Nook a boost and you might in the future if there's are there are more disputes about this we know how a lot of these retailers really try to squeeze blood from the stone to get the best as much of a margin as they can and just they try to sell it on hey you're getting better distribution well if you have other platforms outlet there like the note this could help them out a tiny bit because I like my neck I want my enough to stay alive bring all the books of the neck there I like it a lot I like it I like your little like just just what I'm getting at here all the other publishers just come over to the looks I'd like and stay there and just have Amazon figure it out well maybe and that's the brilliant marketing for Barnes and over and I mean if they're if they're nimble in quick they'll they'll take advantage of that and I'll be like a you know and they have you have it here I've been amazing at picking up those marketing messages really quickly yeah I wouldn't be surprised if they jump right over that one interesting story from our own Greg Sandoval and exclusive from inside google manager saying that so far google music not really living up to expectation not really not really doing much there they supposedly it was going to have the inside track to marketing music to all those 200 million Android users but as is Google's want perhaps you noticed that they utterly forgot to integrate it in Android in any meaningful or usable way better off you notice that probably you probably didn't notice it because nothing changed not integrating your Android experience because google music is not even a little bit integrated and like amazon mp3 is better integrated into android than google music I just seem to talk to these divisions just need to talk to each other and and get some people on the same day it's amazing it'll come in the next Rev of the next OS guys I'm a year later after it looked that they were hoping that they get some traction there's somewhere around over 200 million activated android phones you'd figure there's obviously people that want to buy music and media content we've been complaining one of the number one things that androids issue is building that media ecosystem they have the marketplace now it has books music movies tons of content that really is on the level just you know just a tad bit behind apple's with some of the exclusive content but it has everything you need they need to integrate it better so people spend more on their marketplace if the article even says here from greg's interval if they just managed to convert ten percent ten percent 20 million users then i use like a buck or two every month yeah that we get on that it would be heated on it they have i mean it in some ways it's not surprising that it hasn't taken up what i love is that they apparently had expectations about it taking off when they did not integrate it throughout the operating system did not advertise it in any way shape or form and did not market it on any of their other services like so you just you it and the introduction let's be honest at the time we thought was a little bit of a dud the intro was just like wow this feels a bit you know 2004 like oh staff recommendations really it just didn't you know wasn't offering anything that was cooler love hey there's love music created by computers because they don't think like humans they're also saying that they're in such a bubble I mean they Lobby ours is they are that the Plex is a crazy bubble and it's starting to sound like what it really is is a bunch of different bubbles yo yo inside the one big bubble with nobody steering the ship right now Google Music the service itself they don't have warner music group as you know one of the big four labels they're not on board and they're probably wondering to see what type of traction google music has been able to get up to this point not enough from warner music to jump on board also Google managers have according to the report has says they've been talking to label executives to try to boost the service with more hardware The Wall Street Journal two weeks ago reported that Google is working on building a wireless entertainment system I don't think that's still good enough what yeah yeah yeahs of our house entertainment system but you know for their music service so you know look we will we'll see but they need to do a lot more than just say hey we have a streaming box I'm just saying it guys why is today like the sad day because all right no like all of our stories are just like brought them to the mood down hill brings us to earth damn low interest brings us to earth it did not pictures is gonna stay fair youth ya llego Pinterest Pinterest a fair use also we'll see you also really the music game still is yet to be defined we don't know how these subscription services are playing out yet people are still trying them out not sure if they're really going all in or not I haven't heard enough of my friends say I'm all about subscription models you know it's it's still people are still figuring out I'm kind of doing a little bit of everything I've tried him I just don't what I would love is the sad music what I would love is a service that lets you turn let you to suggest music like Pandora and then you can buy it easily you know all integrate like if itunes would do that I think they would you know I think I island but that's what I'd like I would like music discovery I'm my own with the ability to purchase my music please I would like a combination of subscription recommendation and purchase in one well integrated easy to use service but I'm happy to pay for it dad please sir blesses all right we have happy news we have a little we have two stories that are cool like a cool story though yes oak about we're gonna pick it right up because we have to cool gadget story is you okay let's save ourselves all right in the Dickensian melodramas it is the music services world this is why I'm stoked okay online you guys you guys are you guys are into the online gaming service they released a desktop product but now they've release on live desktop plus what's amazing about this right if you're not familiar with it through your iPad device and they're going to support other iOS devices you can interact and pretty much stream a Windows 7 desktop through your iPad alright the beauty of this is not only will you be able to watch flash content from your iPad yeah some people like I don't want to use a touch interface on Windows 7 the beauty of this also is that this is pretty much streaming like a video image to your iPad I've used it it's pretty killer it's connected to a 1 gigabit ethernet connection alright so you could download files through this on live environment and then access them somewhere else and boom you have your files like that but it's it really is you can watch flash video content from all those sites that is blocked on on your iPad that's insane right now the service is five dollars a month they do have a free version that allows you to just interact with a word powerpoint and excel but I've got to tell you it's the first example where you're starting to see cloud computing this idea of cloud streaming a computer really really my voice crack cuz I'm so excited so amazing really work effectively like I would do the demo but we're on audio but it's I think it's definitely worth checking out when you show Jim it's amazing the speed is amazed like having a desktop running right yes the only limitation is your home wireless access so you're going to want to make sure that your wireless speeds are good enough for this kind of but I love the fact that it just says to any tablet you are my terminal yeah you know and I will deliver device agnostic content to you online again like we just keep talking about how they are doing such cool things I'm really waiting for them to break out because I feel like 2012 could really be their year yeah so super cool check it also I am nerdily excited about yet another google project that they're not going to follow through on but they say we're just saying we've been burned before google claims that they will be selling heads up display glasses by the end of the year that will have low res cameras built-in and that will give you the ability to do like navigation local services you too sir maybe see heads up display call-outs about your Google+ contacts just like in freedom these are like the little these are the glasses that like that you'd wear in Demon's and freedom you guys where to be good where do we where do we begin make friends Mead people interact with the world without a HUD heads-up display sorry nerds I I think it's kind of cool but I'm not gonna wear these things what they look like what if they look cool odds are no I have a man i'm pretty sure that out the best part is how did you read how you navigate it it's its head tilts so so we're just further down the road of technology making us look crazy when we're walking down the street like before we start talking to each other ourselves yeah yeah now we talk to our phones in Syria and then later we're gonna be like twitching I'm sir this is they also no no they say that they are they people have been told at least if one blogger 495 google said he's been told it's quick to learn and once you're adept at navigation become second nature an almost indistinguishable to outside users just a little like a little it's a little you're going together if you're walking your heads are moving you're gonna get lost in this virtual world where no one matters we're going no no no I'm never going to get lost again because my maps are in my glasses and I know what I want and no one matters what happened to the art of saying hello sir do you know where that ice cream shop feels I'm like dude walk down two blocks over the right thing no thank you no they never know no one ever knows no I don't know you get your phone out both of you why can't it that's one of my glasses I'm just looking forward to the b-roll of Molly like this twitching down the street all I'm saying is it's getting worse we already have blue tools we're gonna have goggle Google freaks I yeah it's horrible it's horrible now would you pay 600 bucks for them though huh six months Laurel 252 602 59 start at 250 there's almost an impulse purchase Russo 250 maybe but 66 I don't know I'm excited I'm sorry ready I cannot wait to see you know what I I feel like what I feel like what I hear you saying is that you're not that into this oh I mean it might be something that I'm not really integrating talked about that last week on it or not into it the HUD glasses yeah I was into it then hell yeah still don't mean I love you back to it I feel like we're getting stuff like this makes me feel like we're getting even more disconnected and like I just it's it's sad to see for me I mean I love tech but come on I like people I would be scared about my addiction problems with cuz they would you know I get the dinner table like yeah honey that's great well how was your day that's nuts oh you don't like that bad yeah yeah yeahs the verizon adders I mean I'm the guy that has for gadgets in his backpack already that's pathetic I mean it's cool but it's pathetic I just don't think I just don't see us getting back to that world where the people nobody talks to me on the street like it well that's your own you talk to me and asked me where stuff is I don't know people have my glasses on i could just be like well I to say wait a minute oh let me tell you right away here's I always what I find here's what I find before we go into our into it not into it and I bet you know obviously people in our show live in different areas and there's different regions of the u.s. where if you kind of walk around with your head up and make eye contact people will sometimes respond to you not here in the exactly why bother I'm not here to be like laughs but when that happens here it's like amazing to me where I get like a half smile cuz someone sees me kind of walking and I'm already kind of by nature maybe just like oh this song's fun i'm kind of spine and the person's like smiles back I'm like dude that's awesome yeah where is that heads up my guys friends the future you guys augmented in virtual realities I don't I don't come in when it's in your fire back that'll be cool that is true the contact like this impossible I cannot wait for that Oh mission impossible 4 okay we move we do need to do a little disclosure our entire cnet team yeah cnet TV team took pretty much a half day off as a team-building exercise and watch em I for in imax that's all it was it was ridiculous anyways sings all the scenes on the verge dubai oh I mean bridge oh really I'm not gonna lie like I almost peed I can't even add a no shame in my game on me I released another bodily fluid but I was always takes you to sign saliva dance music dance music alive what were you guys thinking about I don't know why you're leaning about but I wants to even help I don't know okay alright so this all right it's my time to shine I've been sitting here silently chomping at the bit that's a whole show joining her alright so here we go you guys ready here we go yeah I'm into it I'm not into it everyone's going everyone's groove it all right welcome welcome welcome welcome this is into it not into it where we quickly run down some recent tech product releases and decide whether or not we are simply into it or not into it let's get started number one okay number one DARPA DARPA is planning to produce actual surrogate robot avatars for a military personnel which will be bipedal and remotely operated this is the real avatar flying dragons not included Mollywood are you into this I'm into it because the word bipedal Gil Cabrera are you know what bipedal is but I'm into it right o brien ton are you one of the few peoples who loved the movie into it hell yeah the correct answer is yes I man into it we all need robotic avatars but let's not give James Cameron too much credit he thinks he's the king of the world since you are crazy oh do I Iowa ok I'll stop it number to a UK research project will equip dairy cows with the same sensor used in Wii Nintendo controllers to alert farmers by text if their cows are getting sick or if they're in heat Hollywood are you into cows texting I'm not into it leave those cows alone Gil Cabrera this is weird Bryant are you into it totally into cows in heat into it that's the correct answer I am a pro Cal hopefully we'll get full iphone and android support for the cows because what's the saying cows taste bet happy cows taste better as I would have said oh sorry they make merry you guys don't eat meat come on okay 3d game number three number three researchers at Drexel University in Philadelphia are starting to create 3d scans of fossils to better study the motion of giant dinosaurs through small scale robotic male models Mollywood are you went to this I am into everything 3d printing related hell yeah guild Cabrera yes I want one Brian Tom did you say dinosaurs did you see this shirt I'm into it baby that is the correct answer I'm into it not only my pro Cal but I'm pro dinosaur and if we scan them we can rebuild them and get Jurassic Park going on I love that I mean both fun and stare into that alright moving on number four researchers have recently showed off an iphone friendly tongue drive system which uses a retainer embedded with sensors that track a tiny magnet attached to the user's tongue which allow you to control computers and devices Molly win are you into surfing the web with your tongue I am into the obvious health benefits for those with limited mobility brian Tong your Cobra are you into this I want to say yes but it's weird yeah yeah brian Tong I know you like to lick apple products lose this guy's I admit my nicknames not brian Tong for no reason into it that is the correct answer I'm into it it looks crazy and invasive when I'm kind of grossed out look at this is to like yes but it would be great for people with special needs yes on RiRi winery a new app called rewind for the iphone let's you order wine for delivery right to your front door that is if you live in San Francisco it's forty dollars for three bottles of wine and a hip bike messenger dude will bring you your vino mollywood are you into this I'm not into it because I live in Oakland and I hate hip bike built Cabrera I want to be into this because i like a methods to deliver wine cool cool Brian song I'm down with the wine into it that is an interesting answer I'm into it drunk Driving's a big problem in the US and its allow you to get drunk and never have to leave your house thank you rewind ray up moving on number two is number six number six beam beam technologist has created a new smart toothbrush that works with an android app to improve your lazy oral hygiene habits it times you while you brush your teeth and tracks your tooth brushing history mollywood are you into toothbrushing apps I already have this in my toothbrush you do ok yeah I'm or something I'm well yeah my sonic ok got into it already have my sonic killed Cabrera hi to have a sonic gun into it Brian Todd I don't brush my teeth not in that's a cranky answer as hell no i'm not into i'll use an egg timer this thing's like 50 bucks my toothbrush is like 29 yes seriously so good Nanak and last but not least number seven this one's for BTW the internet has given birth to the Jeremy Lin word generation generator it slim credible mollywood are you Lynn spired I am so inspired and I totally want to have one of those Lin parties that everybody's having Gill Cabrera you'll insane i am lynne same brian Tong is this lamb tastic the technology has brought us the linter net it's very little tryst I'm so enjoyment I'm all into it baby I'll into it I think Jeremy Lin Lin dandy wait let's look at some of the words that you could do here we have Linda Bader ricky bahl Lin plus envision equal riddle in bloom oh nice limp courage courage and Linda oh man goes on and on i'm dull job i gotta have a lentini party that's good you're all invited all right that was it guys thank you very much they danced with you okay wait the track stopped and now we didn't write anyway we'll start it over okay I'm not into it oh alright that was into it not into it thank you guys I'm so happy around to it dude you know it's a fun it's a cool see some people were like dude I don't like into not when you're in the studio you are into somebody I know that I remember when it first came out I deleted them and blocked them from the chat anyone who's not into it now everybody's into into it now I'm soul into it I the pics ma I'm soul into this alright let's cruise through the emails real quick no voicemails today so let's see our first one because I'm having a Google Doc moment Jim the space engineer from Fremont California says in reference to Molly's recent cell phone purchase from episode 1581 sarcasm how wonderful it must be for Molly to be caught in the middle of the android apple fanboy war and sarcasm honestly as a person who switched from the iphone to the android HTC Inspire i sympathize with molly i love how smooth and reliable my HTC phone is nine months later after two carrier delayed software updates people talk about how the iphone is a year behind in technology but it took nearly a year for my bleeding edge android phone to become equally reliable by this time my carrier had already placed the inspire with seven new android phones with leading edge features that sort of work the Android manufacturers are too easy to push features over fully baking the technology and they are spineless to the carrier's wishes as an engineer I still love my more capable android phone over my current iPhone but my fellow android users need to accept that Apple's tightly controlled and feature limited management of the iphone does result in benefits that other people need or desire quit apologizing phandroid fanboys Molly I think it's pretty clear that the iphone is a better fit for you it's not like the Android population is going to collapse with your decision PS he says I own an imac adult laptop a mac mini and android phone and ipod touch and ipod nano I can't make up my freaking mind you I think I think it should be a requirement that people whenever they write us they can just list their technology usually yes what's in your pocket what's in what's in your pocket I think the only way to live is it sort of a happy balance of cub without without google goggles glasses without class totally get all right you can do that all right here we go our next email this comes to us from our buddy Craig HAP you make some very interesting points here he says hey guys first I have seen BTW wear a tie a few times now and after reading Molly's calm about apple winning and her purchase of a 4s everything Hitler said has come true I thought you guys might like to revisit his thoughts so we have this video clip this is from the buzz out loud going weakly Hitler mean yep that we've seen he was right and this was produced in September of 2011 guys so we're gonna jump to this little part so those you watching I do tongass in this this is a little crazy it's our biggest little traffic I've heard since Steve Jobs quizzo hair the next thing you know Molly Wood will be buying an iphone god damn gonna be your tongue will start wearing a suit and tie those things to both for the taco bell's moving to join an army farming community okay i would actually remember actually did happen how does it really funny react one that was right yeah so anyways we'll have the link in our show notes if you guys want to see the whole hitler reacts but uh it was actually right on the right one baby the dominoes just started falling them that has alerted fallen and then uh in the most awesome email ever i think change the name once again i think you should change the name to apple out loud AOL now that i don't know if any of you are using anything but apple products sent for my ah that's pretty great all right all right fair enough we're not changing well you know I think that's gonna pretty much do it for today's show right show we do want to make a show yeah it's been fun we do want to encourage you guys we talked a lot about privacy but how does this affect you guys what are your thoughts on all these privacy rules consumer bill o rights please email us we'll talk about it we'll let your thoughts be heard you can email us at buzz at cnet com also our show notes bol dat cnet.com and you can call us 1 800 61 62 63 8 is our phone number that spell cnet buzz at cnet com is our email address thank you so much you already said that I know I know I like we like copying each other I remember that I was there for that uh Thank You Gil for joining us gill st an awesome real of guilt Cabrera on twitter if you want to follow all your legal musings thanks for having me again it's lots of fun yeah you know I coming her for work and I look forward to the most you should honestly if you didn't say that we'd punch you in the face I know you need it that's true i get a better record on i think so yeah regular regular regular alright guys we will see you next week have a lovely weekend alright see you guys you