Gadgetory

and welcome to Martha expect and it is the waning days of November there's just one month left in 2016 and so far it's been a year dominated by some pretty wild politics but if you can get past all those headlines it was actually a really big year for the kind of technology that we wanted to watch you're far-sighted now I know the events of 2016 have changed the vision many people had and there are in their heads of what the next 5-10 years might look like in the future but the matter where your head is at right now one thing 2016 has shown us is that life and say 2026 is a lot more likely to involve self-driving cars and other connected technology that will move us and our stuff around so this seemed to be the year that this technology went being mostly hi to dare I say mostly inevitable you've got self-driving ubers we've got self driving big rigs we've got autonomous Tesla's and that's really just to name a few I had even an even bigger signal that this stuff is the real deal comes in the fact that there is an emerging ecosystem around this technology and company trying to figure out how we'll leave it into daily life and the future in a way that makes sense and is safe and so for today we've actually pulled in one of the folks who is doing that work that you'll probably appreciated that point too distant future so please look welcome our guest there's videos M Francisco fall Sakamoto the COO of Safari and thank you Eric are you doing Paul great so this is a company that's working on all the other stuff that we need to connect not just to our cars also to our cities and to their environment so that all kind of works together and works this is a fair description what would you say is your your fishing over this well on a time scale autonomous vehicles are great you know the whole idea of having a bunch of essentially robot cars but they don't really become truly fully effective and well they're all connected if you can't think of the real promise of having autonomous vehicles it be not having them be little islands of self-driving self-awareness but actually to be coordinated in their driving so that they are actually much greater than a human driver could ever be because one quick example they come to a stop light a bunch of cars are stopped and if you want them to all get going today even if you have an autonomous vehicle it's going to wait for the car in front of it to move before it moves if they're all connected they can all just take off at the same time and it seems like a small thing but if you think about the amount of efficiency that you gain in both throughput and safety and especially energy conservation it's it's tremendous there's one small example gotcha so I mean what do you what do you envision all this technology is going to mean for us you know about 10 years down the road are you of the mind that we're going to do away with you know human driven cars eventually how how long we look at that transition or is this more you know just going to be kind of a technology that doesn't go Mean Street artist well you know not only is the market evolving a lot Eric but also the the way that we're even thinking about the market evolves as time goes by and it's very geocentric for instance you know in the United States that's going to evolve a lot differently than it does and say Malaysia or Japan or some other area I'm like you can look at the different regions of the world and you can think of some places are already very very comfortable with much more of a public transportation or mass transportation kind of mentality and ownership of a private vehicle is actually something that is uncommon right and so those areas we think autonomous technology will just immediately take off and be of great benefit and rapid market turnover in areas like the United States there's going to be both regional and market differences you know across the nation if you can imagine once again a new york city much more likely to be a rapid take off san francisco same thing out in the middle of the United States maybe not so much because their needs are a little different and the sort of the market mentality is a lot different in each of those areas and maybe actually they're the real need to have independent transportation might be a lot different out there in the middle of the the Heartland that it is in a dense populated area and so your company suvari actually I turned me if I'm wrong but you you find some sort of a deal in China right where you go are you doing up there how's it different well we've engaged the largest manufacturer in China which is Shanghai automotive industrial Corp or as they call themselves saic so saic is a joint venture in a joint venture with some of the major OEM car makers like General Motors and others to manufacture those types of vehicles in China both the brands that I mentioned and their own saic brand we are using them as our distributor in China and also as our partner to help penetrate the Chinese market which is great because in China for instance is an example of a different market you do have to have some amount of government cooperation in order to have anything like this be successful and scic is a private-public cooperative company sort of a joint venture company between government and private sectors okay so so so lay it out for me what this is going to look like for example you and I had a conversation about an hour ago as you're on your way to see us to do there in San Francisco you were stuck in traffic and you know you're talking about the accident it was in front of you and you can you can see where everyone else was how is that journey different in the future if everything that you guys are working on comes to prove it well in in that future let's say it is the 20-26 vision you're talking about instead of having a sort of an estimate of time that ends up being off by a factor of two to come to San Francisco to make that journey from Silicon Valley up here the estimate wouldn't be me an estimate it would be a direct forecast and be accurate to the minute you know they're absolutely would be like a train in Europe or something it wouldn't be like getting in a car today and taking a journey I think at a very high level that the predictability of transportation the safety of it would completely change as well as the productivity because I wouldn't have to sit there looking at the license plate in front of me as I'm traveling along I could be doing some actual you know work work and you'd probably have cars there a lot better at doing their job and I am since I forgot to introduce everyone else yes so let's uh let's throw it to questions you guys these guys I've got this beautiful pour ce n'est pas si atoms Steve beach by the grove Jeff Sparkman and also joining us from Sydney Australia over the google hangout this Luke Lancaster I guys sorry tomorrow you go ahead and jump in um I was wondering we usually talk about smart cars in the context of sort of smart cities um at least when I think about smart cars is usually in a large group as you were saying maybe approaching lights or it part of integrated network and there have been contest to try and design smart cities and so on I'm so I'm really interested in this question of how you would how you take this technology to to rural areas and here or in China and could you say more about that sure the technology actually applies across all of these different situations I think the the way that you would want to coordinate traffic and use energy more efficiently or even clear the path for emergency service vehicles in a city is fairly straightforward you know you have control or a priority established between the car communication and communicating with the stop lights etc and also through the traffic management centers which look like a big war room like in the movies you know these things really exist but I think out in the country it's a little less obvious sometimes but the way that it plays out is you know you can use the same technology to locally broadcast road conditions for instance we could actually transmit a condition of ice or slick road or something that's hidden from a viewer like if you're traveling through a canyon road and it's out there in the middle of nowhere if a proper transponder was located at that blind corner where there might be ice and you wouldn't see it instead of hitting an ice patch at 60 miles an hour you would understand you need to slow down to a near crawl and therefore avoid a potentially very bad accident one example there's actually active programs that are going on now out in some rural areas to actually have programs we're in the middle of the United States you they end up with a lot of accidents which are believe it or not crosswinds bellowing semi trucks off the road Wow and so having a sensor that could actually say okay we've got a 60 mile an hour crosswind coming when you come down out of the past slow it down to about 20 miles an hour and crawl or else you're going over buddy is a message that could be broadcast back up the the traffic chain with enough warning so that the trucker could avoid that accident by the time they can sense that on their own they're already down yeah that's a it's an issue that's the number of trucks blown over in Wyoming is tens of incidents per euro stud yeah I actually saw a video the other day I was just watching stuff and it was just a somebody's dashcam video of a semi in front of them I just you can just see it starting starting an engine straight over yeah that sounds like a problem we could fix already before self-driving cars right we just need sensors and communication well the particular sensor technology that we use today you know where we envision a road map of different radio technologies but the actual algorithms and the idea of putting the little black box in every car actually our box is silver but anyway you get the idea the little black box in every car and then they don't run into each other or they can be messaged as far as issues go is something that we could technically do today most of the hurdles have to do with economics and regulation and the usual friction to life that we agree encounter yeah can you tell us a little bit about the devices that that pick up signals from the traffic lights so basically all the cars are just kind of telling each other where they are right and then so that they avoid each other right and then they also can that helps to to find it helps to tell a driver where there might be traffic and stuff up ahead or something well the the the number one mission of the vehicle to vehicle communication or v2v as we call it is to give each car whether it's being driven by a robot driver or if it's been being driven by a human driver about a three second warning that another vehicle path is about to intersect it now you think well a lot of those things you can already see you can use radar you can't slide are but specifically because this technology can cover a 360 degree field around the car me that when you're pulling out from say a blind corner like from behind a van parked in front of your driveway or near your driveway or some other time a tight circumstance it can see around that corners that's that's the the main advantage of this is being able to see around blind corners for safety now for the infrastructure piece communicating to the roadside unit that's got a safety piece which has to do with communicating conditions as i said but also on more common basis inside a city like in the smart city application we're talking about it doesn't matter if you have an autonomous vehicle or a human driven vehicle you can get information to the driver of the car once again robotic or human that tells it ok the stoplight is at this particular phase and it's got so many seconds to go to either turn red green amber whatever we can also do the emergency service vehicle preemption where you know the ambulance is coming through shut down traffic on all the cross streets oh wow which is a function that once again they can't they have a rudimentary version today but it's it's what we call line of sight right there's a there's a beacon that goes out triggers the stock the next stoplight but it doesn't clear the whole road so as a result you know it doesn't fix the problem for the whole route to the hospital the fire or whatever it's it's a much different you know kind of last generation sort of technology the those just a couple examples and and then there's lots of others you know one thing that people probably don't know about is we've already prototyped and demonstrated with the u.s. department transportation a cell phone based text so you would have like a pedestrian would have a cell phone so here's a quick pitch for why cell phones are a great sensor today most of you cnet watchers listeners if you were to leave your wallet at home you might not go back for it if you were to leave your phone at home you probably would go back for it because you're in a horrible state if you don't have your phone so what we've already done is shown that we can actually use a phone as a sensor for a pedestrian keeping in mind thousands of pedestrians are run over each year and actually use that to communicate with the infrastructure and say you're about to step into a busy street don't do that and and I think we read in the paper and one maybe once a month or so someone does that also we could signal a vehicle that's approaching that are about to run over a maybe a preoccupied pedestrian I'm going to be generous that's very cool so I wonder if there's no when you're kind of building your your environment and of your network of sensors so that you know these vehicles are always aware of this environment of how you kind of build in some of the you know more unpredictable factors i'm thinking like wildlife or you know we also recently published a piece here on cnet about how a lot of drivers are excited to self-driving cars because they want to mess with them excu with them what cut amount on purpose oh how do you prepare those kind of factors well you know my general statement is don't never let the great be in the enemy of the good right you know i think the USDOT is estimating they can cut down traffic dust by about eighty percent by complete installation of this technology we're killing about 35,000 people a year so i think the you know the twenty some odd thousand people that are saved that's that's worth saving not to mention the million injuries but to back up to those other things you know this is not a replacement technology for every other sensor that can go into a car it's one of a number of sensor technologies so if you can imagine the car of the future the 20-26 car that we're talking about would have radar it would have lidar which is the laser version of radar and it would have also echolocation it would have cameras of course cameras everywhere probably 360 degrees around the car of cameras and any other sensor that we can come up with including this one so that we can actually have beyond human sense for the car and I think that that's that's the car the future so we're absolutely looking at things like the deer okay the deer would be pegged not by the radio technology but it would actually be found by the late either ride out laser excuse me the lidar and the radar and the camera and those three would take a look at it there'd be what's called a fusion sensor sensor fusion computing program located in the the car and it would make a decision about whether that was a real image or not what the what the urgency is and a bunch of other factors and take appropriate action or recommend appropriate action if a human still driving the car so that's that's the net of it and then this communication technology could be used to send that information back to the car behind you which would be perhaps key information depending on how tightly the traffic's packed so it's a you know it's going to be amazing I'm curious what this sounds like to Luke I don't know Luke can you hear me ok yeah ok yeah so I was told when I was in Australia that they have a much stronger car culture there than we do here and here we have sort of a tradition of driving as a sign of Independence right and adulthood and so forth so I'm just wanting what this sounds like to you Luke um we definitely do have a car culture but that's because I guess we've got space of driving um in a city I could definitely say something like this especially because we have a very strong public transport culture as well um like buses and trains I guess that would be my question about this like in terms of shaping public attitude is it an easier sell to your average driver to do this as something that's based around public transport first hmm you know actually that is something that's happening now a lot of the early projects for autonomous driving that include connected cars clinic connected vehicles rather are taking places with like some of the uber pilots and other things where they're they're looking at different ways to connect the cars they're looking at a bunch of a variety as a technology they're using autonomous vehicle technologies primarily to supplant their drivers which are their cost Center and I think the best thing about the public transportation is unlike private ownership you can very very tightly scope the mission of the vehicle and that's actually important for success if you think about it cutting down the checklist of things you have to do with an autonomous vehicle tremendously increases your chances of success with it and so if you can imagine i'm only going to do these ten blocks of downtown san francisco during these hours of daylight and if it rains forget it you know it makes it much easier task to do then then if you're saying i'm going to let any any Tom Dick or Harry have their autonomous vehicle and try to break it which is I think you mentioned earlier is that something that people will try to do well you know I think everyone talks about that guy who managed to Darwin eyes himself with the the tesla car and and that's going to happen that's going to be out you know i think it's there i'll be always someone who is somehow going to overcome the few thousand PhD man years of work that go into the safety systems and and then we'll pack another few years of energy into it i mean people have been doing that with like regular cars for years like Dukes of Hazzard i mean they're flipping cars over jumps and stuff so yeah people are gonna do that stuff no matter what okay for its jet pack yeah yeah people like to be Daredevils yeah i think what we're trying to do is we you know I think it'd be a little ambitious or arrogant to even say we're going to eliminate traffic death but we're going to manage them down a lot you know that's what some of the major car manufacturers have been saying though they want to eliminate traffic deaths completely by 2020 I think was the year do you think that's a realistic number or a realistic year no i think i would say that there's like what someone says like that i think is a goal right if you let me jump sideways clean out attack and go to management theory but you have to have a be hag right a big hairy audacious goal i think that's theirs and I wish them I'm gonna kind of bet against him good luck with that yeah but at the same time people are safer driving than flying but are usually more afraid of flying because we don't like to feel out of control right we don't like to go I think there's a lot of people that way but I think it's changing you know if you look at the dynamic from say 40 years ago even versus today I think it's shifted quite a bit I think when you look at the dynamic of the desire of the car culture you know people wanting to have their own independence and have their own car and drive it whatever way they please you know kind of being scofflaws and saying you know the traffic what is the speed limit as a serving suggestion you know that's that's a that's when I was a kid and now today I have to say Millennials like my children are you know the kind of like driving is kind of optional it you know it'd be nice if I had a nicer car but frankly I just need to get from here to there and I think it's a generation that's much more prone to start that trend so it to say I didn't really want a car I want to transport right and and I think that's a key market change and it's not going to happen everywhere same time it'll be uneven I gotta say I drove home from tahoe this weekend and I wanted an autonomous car back yeah I hired I was like telling my wife I'm like if my car can drive me like I wouldn't have to worry about you know I'm staring off into the woods you know like the robot wouldn't do that or the autonomous car when do that would be paying attention the whole time yeah oh my god I mean with this plane yeah so I mean I can't wait I can't wait so we don't have somebody in the chat room asking why do we need self-driving cars in the first place um and saying the tech has replaced a lot of middle-class jobs and is this a threat uh what do you like to just take on that basic question why do we need these well I mean I've talked a lot but I continue oh yeah always yeah so this is something that you look at in the u.s. maybe there's three three-and-a-half million jobs that are directly dependent on driving and with those jobs be affected eventually initially there's probably actually more drivers and the reason is is because you look at every autonomous pilot that's come out so far and what do they have they have another driver actually sitting there in the the drivers position ready to take over if the autonomous system fails you know so temporarily I don't think that there's an issue probably for years and years now eventually there's going to be certain classes you know when you break through in certain areas and certain market segments are going to be affected more than others you know maybe certain aspects of long-haul trucking might get affected but I think to say that we're going to push back on autonomous vehicles as something that's going to reduce a certain number of jobs in the trucking industry for instance is to say well why didn't they push back on triple hookups for trailers right because they were running one-third less trucks all of a sudden own didn't hear trucker strikes over driving that I think I think you know there's there's all sorts of issues and I think that it won't be an overnight thing we're all of a sudden three and a half million people are out of a job right I think that this is going to be a very gradual transition into each of these segments and you're going to find that for instance probably short haul truckers don't get taken over for years and years and so I think unlike some other things it's not like a factory closing yeah right it's not like saying we're going to move 20,000 jobs out of Detroit and into Mexico it's it's a lot different I think it's over time it changes which probably doesn't completely fix it for everybody but I think it's I would put it in the natural evolutionary kind of notion of job changes and job market changes versus overnight someone made a decision and killed three million jobs yes a gradual oh yeah any final thoughts um Paul in terms of not just where you think we're going with the this kind of technology in our cars but also in our cities will you Annette sure uh you know I think that the by the time that this actually happens like a lot of things that we've experienced you know whether it's consumer items like HDTV and things we were able to do it a long time before we had it and I think that that's the case here we're actually able to do actually all of this stuff the tech already exists it's already had millions of miles of road test particularly the connected vehicle tech when we pull up a couple things we already have you know a thousand of these things installed in test beds across the United States and in other places in China and other locations and this is the thing that communicates with the car and the traffic signal or back to the traffic management center whatever you're doing and can relay messages around to the other vehicles in the traffic stream as to road conditions etc it's called a roadside unit and these are available for the you know like a thousand ish apiece kind of level and the price is going to go down it's definitely one of those things that the price goes in half every couple years and so it'll be essentially something that's easily made ubiquitous when we look at this box here that with is actually not even our latest one this is the little box that goes in every car you know the eventual price of this is going to be a few tens of dollars that goes in every car so if you think about the impact to this you know we a social priority etcetera you know I'm frankly a little conservative on that so normally i wouldn't say it this way but actually it's one of the few places where government could come in do a mandate now save thousands of lives within the next five years and and they're going to have a tough time doing it right so the vehicle the vehicle communication of the vehicle that everything communication is something there for a few billion bucks and some effort we could probably save thousands wives and if you think about other ways that we spend money that don't do that I think it's a shame and hopefully everyone will kind of start asking the questions about why we don't and that plus autonomous vehicles you know let's think about eighty percent times the 35,000 people in the united states per year let's think about eighty percent times the i think it's actually closer to a couple million people who are killed or seriously injured in the end the world in traffic accidents and taking that number down by even a more modest amount it's it's actually I think it's a parrot of that we all get behind this and and back autonomous and connected driving and and in the devices do you're showing us those are going to be standard in cars pretty soon right the function will be standard in cars the fact is that most of the the power of this is located in a right now say a dozen ICS and it gets shrunk into a couple ICS there's some ambitious projects that have reduced it already I think very much that the physical contents going to be subsumed into the overall vehicle computing and communication architecture and that the the remaining thing and one of the things that we specialize in is actually all of the artificial intelligence and the algorithms that determine the hard part which is you know are you going to run into that car or not you know think about being in the traffic jam I was just Daniel you know we have to filter thousands of messages per second and determine which three are the ones coming from cars that are going to potentially harm you and and that's that's the thing that will continue to evolve also cool wait I'm really glad that you're working on this and we're all really excited to see where it goes and it's great to meet the person whose gun our safety definitely at hearts 0 or one of them at least and I wish you success in that I'm excited to see where this goes we'll be watching um I think we're going to take a quick break and then come back to you to talk about westworld I don't know if you're a West world band all the earth welcome to stick around and join the conversation or if you need to get on down the road please feel free well uh thanks for asking and thanks for having me here you got it yeah we'll take a little break and be right back guys still got Kofi Adams Jeff Sparkman and i am stephen Beecham there in the studio in San Francisco and Luke Lancaster joining us from cnet australia in sydney and so you know we started off our show with a few technical glitches but if there's one place where you really don't want to run into technical glitches is the world of Westworld hbo's latest hits sci-fi series and if you don't know you know really quick synopsis the basic idea is an amusement park maybe in the near future that is populated by incredibly lifelike robots that you can do all kinds of things too but in theory or relatively safe from them as long as the code remains stable and does it well you gotta watch to find out that the season finale is coming up on Sunday and I think everyone here but stephen has seen something so this is really just a seminar to bring Steven up speed yes thanks no open seen anything an interesting Lee it's based off a film the 1970s and tell me you guys think so you know in the nineteen seventies not actually a very good film on wood um you know it's basically more what you would imagine robots to be in the 1970s just kind of these metal tin cans with a really well done um layer of skin over them i guess and now the more modern version is you know flesh-and-blood robots that are basically 3d printed bank um but i always found it interesting that the show whereas i think if the show were based on something more contemporary see quick it was just big place virtual reality my only person who thought that do you think it's a virtual reality like a dream the whole shows a dream no the show takes place in a physical amusement park like in the West but I think it takes place that way because it's based off of 1970s movie when they didn't have virtual reality back then that seems like this concept lends itself so much more diverse reality I love do I have derailed this conversation Riddick then if half the point of going this places to have sex doesn't it make more sense to have solid object I'm sure if you're in a solid objects does it or just like a really really oh really good you know Bobby suits like I read where if anybody anybody so okay don't it's all about the nerves anyway what do you let's just talk about the show you guys think where you guys first I'm only caught up there episode for the whole virtual reality thing um and I guess this is kind of what I think about the show as well there's a whole sort of creating life element to the people who build a park and like there's a physicality to that you know and like they've been making people essentially so I don't know if the whole virtual reality think plays into that no I think I think that it is fair I think a lot watches logistical II be so much easier we're literally oh absolutely get her um I like much easier to turn off when if if things go poorly right really spoiling you Luke says it like he's never seen a holodeck episode mm-hmm those things never break um yeah yeah I'm super into the show I'm I'm in deep we've got like our um water cooler catch-ups which we haven't had in the office for ages so then can I ask right it's like game of throne oh yeah yeah okay and it's it's kind of the quick whip around who's up to date who's up to date so you don't spoil anything so can I ask you what makes it good God Kelsey what makes it specialists cuz I'm hearing a lot about this show people could tell me I need to watch it it's so good but I okay i don't i don't want to sound horribly jaded here but I feel like anybody who's been reading sign fiction watching science fiction the whole lives has seen all the all the basic plots and questions before like what's really a person what's really free will can you really love is it dehumanizing to hurt in a robot and you know I mean it just seems like I'm just wondering what makes this one particularly great or different or something um I I don't know if anything particularly does like I'm a pretty big sci-fi node myself and they're not new issues but they're done in a really entertaining way I guess like it's it's quite well mate like it's a very well-made show and it's HBO so the production value just through the roof and you know it does a really good job of hitting that in the serialized TV HBO format which I think has sucked a lot of people in and it's it's kinda like the game of thrones thing that doesn't do anything you in terms of fantasy but people have jumped on it because for a mass audience there might not be huge fantasy fans you know and it's kind of a cool aspect of it a meta aspect of it wish you know it is not completely unique but the fact that the characters are you know in a fantasy world within the fantasy world that you're watching I kind of find that appealing and it's you know it's a it's a lot of popular in kind of prestige TV right now in terms of this you know constant twists and turns and uncertainties and surprises but like Luke said they're just done particularly well do you guys have favorite characters are like the first good sorry I didn't realize you're still talking this sound is a little bit odd I was just wondering if you guys have favorite characters like are you sucked in on a personal level isn't worried about the ride the experience I I think it's more kind of the narrative for me rather than any specific characters um like it hasn't been revealed yet but I'm pretty sure there are several different timelines happening and it's kind of piecing that together as the show unfolds there's really interesting for me hmm yeah you know that and that's something I just ended keen to realize over the last couple weeks and people had to point out some kind of dance to this but yeah I think time is like an added dimension to the whole thing really obvious and that there's they're going out of the way to not being honest we think we're not quite sure but I've also noticed in terms of characters and Luke and Jeff you can tell me what you think but is another one similar to Game of Thrones where you're not really sure who's good or really if there are any any good guys good gals involved and so far the ones that do seem to be potentially the protagonists are worth rooting for also seeing DB to make just terrible decision to not be super uh great hmm um yeah hard to root for many of them absolutely like paul james marsden every episode you know put through the ringer on um so Jeff I think you if I understand right you um you watch me to the first two I were your impressions oh I like it a lot I went and watched another two episodes last night instead of sleeping and it's just it's it's interesting just to watch all of this kind of like unfold and like unravel but then also kind of like twist around and and I tend to have kind of a short attention span these days so the fact that I was able to keep paying attention seems like a good thing I just it occurred to me that like I feel like Michael Crichton must have really just hated the hell out of Disneyland because well I mean yeah because I I was just trying to describe this and I'm like well it's it's sort of like Jurassic Park but with cowboy robots and then I'm like well it kind of is not the series but the basic premise of the original movie and then I'm like well why does michael crichton have all these like theme parks that just go horribly awry like he just had a really crappy time waiting with the Matterhorn or something yeah yeah his childhood must have been pretty interesting so r g makes a good point in in the camera Tamela Griffis is kind of why it's hard to find many characters root for in that show because you know arm are proxies in the show are they people that are going to some use Minh park and I kind of by definition all self-absorbed rich people so that you know that that makes it difficult to find somebody's relate to in the show for a lot of people but you know I agree with Luke so you know the production values and the storytelling still make it worthwhile so it's been kind of hard to get invested in the character right that's kind of similar to the game of thrones as well right I still haven't watched it yet given what's game I'm that guy yes yeah sorry you st. if I was just saying I'm like the one guy who had it still hasn't watched it yet but you can certainly make a great show about terrible people that's that's no question about that yeah didn't climb Tarantino Quentin Tarantino just had a movie about terrible people all in one room I forget what it was called intern Tina a movie you're saying what is it caught Luke oh no um here like it's very much an along for the ride show for me rather than picking individual characters to root for and I think that's that's okay because it's not getting bogged down in a lot of those character focused moments like it is keeping the narrative moving even if it is teasing it out really painfully slowly you know great I agree um well you know it's West world and you haven't check it out I recommend it first season wraps up on sunday sunday on HBO um we're bad at a time but before we go i'm wondering if from any of you guys had any kind of a pop culture things that you're you're you're into right now or that you're looking forward and aviation if you want to go around the table anybody got anything just on the way it note reading east of west a comic it's kind of a post-apocalyptic thing about the four horsemen and the end of the world said in the future it's really weird but if you're into West world and also say check out east of west ah where do you find that uh comic shops everywhere you know what else you can find it's a comic book Luke sky one's called bad guys I do i do write a comic called the bad guys you should check that out as well just to shamelessly plug cool sweet all right anyone else final thoughts final recommendations oh well there's a big crossover been going on this week with the arrow Supergirl the flash in DC legends so that's happening and I'm really busy being terrible at overwatch personally what about you Jeff um I've been doing a whole bunch of nothing lately that's that's my new hobby fine beachin uh I haven't I have two kids I don't really have time yeah anything except sleep so that's about it I don't watch TV really separators Raiders go raiders in 20 to 26 gonna still be fighting over sports I I'll give a nod to to arrival although I would have liked to seen it shortened by about 20 minutes but I think a lot of people there into the same sort of thing we're into would enjoy it so check that out and as we go out the door i'll also give shameless plug to a feature i'm working on for cnet that i spoke to former apple CEO John Sculley and 41 he's the guy in between Steve Jobs the two times I if once didn't actually talk about Apple a whole lot he's working on some really interesting projects but also deal with future technologies and so that will be coming up on seen it in the next week or so and you want to check it out if for no reason other than to hear his prediction of how old Stevens children will lift the net think you'll find it surprising and entire generation not just even children he is enough even children person so so check that out and I think that's our show for today top of the hour it's probably almost time for lunch in Australia so I want to say thank you to Luke Lancaster Australia and also to our guests home sakamoto from Safari things so much for stopping by and also for Kelsey Adams and Jeff Sparkman there in the studio it's evil deeds behind the control quality Burk feel better we'll see you next time this is far sighted thanks for watching you