Glenn Greenwald on the Snowden effect and Silicon Valley's conscience
Glenn Greenwald on the Snowden effect and Silicon Valley's conscience
2016-06-03
it was the first leaked top-secret
documents from the most secretive agency
inside the world's most powerful
government ever the first time I started
really really reading through the
documents I definitely did have a sense
of the scope and the breadth of what we
had obtained inside I had a pretty good
idea that we can make an extremely big
impact and would enable a lot of y can
be shined on many things that have
unjustifiably been hidden from the
public for a really long time obviously
there hasn't been a lot of change in
terms of domestic law the u.s. hasn't
enacted a bunch of laws imposing upon
itself draconian limits about how it can
spy so I think a lot of times people say
well what has really changed their
thinking of that you know NSA is still
open it's still spying the law that was
passed is is pretty modest you could
even say trivial in terms of what it
changes but we never thought that that
was where the real action is governments
don't go around imposing huge amounts of
limits on their own power I think the
much more significant changes have taken
place in terms of individual
consciousness so people now understand
the extent to which their privacy is
being compromised they as a result can
and are taking all kinds of precautions
to safeguard the privacy of their own
communications by massively increasing
their encryption use which is taking
place on every continent
I mean these companies for years were
more than willing to just run roughshod
over the privacy rights of their users
they didn't care in the slightest about
any of that they didn't just wake up one
day and like develop on conscience and
say oh I think actually actually went
wrong and privacy is really important
from this ethical or moral or political
perspective what change was the market
incentive the fact that consumers are
now demanding that privacy be
safeguarded and refusing to use
companies that won't do that the US and
the UK have now essentially launched
their PR campaign to accuse Facebook and
Google and Apple of being eaters and
abettors of terrorist groups essentially
being the best friend of Isis of having
blood on their hands these companies are
not being bullied by that kind of
rhetoric is damaging as it might be
because they fear even more than that
public relations campaign a huge exodus
of users who are not going to use their
services if they're perceived as
partners of the NSA and the GCHQ well so
I mean as far as encryption is concerned
obviously that is the key to defeating
the surveillance state and that's going
to be the battle that probably is with
us for not just years but decades to
come it's going to be like our arms
raised from the ones you're going to see
government agencies developing
technologies to break encryption to
invade communication and then the other
side you're going to see private
companies and privacy activists and
others trying to use math to build a
wall of numbers essentially around
people's communication and keep the
government and non-state actors out and
so the awareness that it's really
crucial now not to just tell individuals
go use encryption because that's too
complicated but to have companies
implanted embedded in their product so
that it's essentially automatic
so if you read me the biggest companies
we're talking about Google and Facebook
and Apple are now probably the most
powerful companies in the world more
powerful than oil companies or defense
contractors they have more money than
those industries they exert more power
and their core business is collecting
data it's not like it's ancillary to
their business you know if people think
of Google as a search company that's
sort of along the way collects data no
Google provide provides search
capacities so that you use it so that it
can collect data about you whether
that's to monetize it or sell it or more
importantly to analyze it so that they
can understand on the human brain work
so that they can develop artificial
intelligence products and the like which
they see is the future so I don't see a
way although it'd be great if it could
be done I don't see a plausible way
given that these companies are really
more powerful than governments now to
curb the the willingness and ability of
these companies to collect data so the
fact that he has ended up not in US
custody not in prison and most
importantly of all completely free to
participate in the debate that he
triggered around the world has been
immensely positive for him and I think
for for every citizen concerned about
these issues and not only does he
participate in these debates he had
become an extremely desired speaker so
he gives speeches he participates in
events he writes columns and he does
interviews he has large platforms and so
as he's talked about before he's able to
make a living a good living actually
I mean I'm not sure that there is a way
to avoid using these companies short of
removing yourself from the matrix all
together interestingly when I met with
that were sown in Hong Kong and you know
kept pressing him on his motive for why
he was going to risk his liberty or even
his life to bring this information to
the public that's essentially what he
said is that you know especially someone
his age who came of age already in the
world of the Internet it's not this kind
of ancillary technology that you can
sort of choose to use or not use the way
maybe if you're older you you think of
it as it's really it's the the window
into which you you interact with the
world it's unavoidable and and so to see
that he said compromised and turned into
a tool of oppression and corrosion
control as opposed to this this device
of you know this innovation of
liberation and and and and
democratization and was just so
disturbing to him that he couldn't in
good faith left in good conscience let
that happen so I don't I don't I don't
think that there are ways to avoid these
technologies I think that what
individual citizen can do is apply
various pressure points to make sure
that they can do so safely without
having a privacy compromise
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