Google is forced to address its diversity problems...again? (The 3:59, Ep. 263)
Google is forced to address its diversity problems...again? (The 3:59, Ep. 263)
2017-08-08
good morning on Tuesday August 8 that's
episode 263 of the 359 podcast in the
house today we've got Roger King Ben Fox
Ruben and special guest Brianne Garrett
thank you so much welcome I know it took
through the entire this is our intern
she's got she's wrapping up our 10-week
program this week exactly it took you
know a half took us nine 1/2 weeks to
get you on so I'm glad we finally have
you want me to yeah about damn time
sorry guys well I mean we did we did
lose about a month's worth of shows
whose fault was that supposed to me
welcome time sock yep we're retitling
the pod time so yeah this is got a kind
of crack operation that we're working
with here so we're gonna be talking
about two topics Google obviously in the
news for firing the engineer who
released that that internal memo
criticizing the company's diversity
efforts and then we'll be talking about
the HBO hack i've here a game of Thrones
fan you might be interested in that
obviously the script for that latest
episode that just aired leaked a few
days before the show and there's some
there's some new news you know they're
they're asking for a ransom now they've
got they leaked a bit more information
so up as always if you have any
questions leave them in the comments
section Brian will pick out the best and
we'll get to them in 3 minutes and 59
seconds from 3 to welcome to the 359 I'm
Roger Cheng I'm Ben Fox Raven and with
us is intern Bri and Eric so more on
Google News Google moved quickly and
reportedly fired the author of an
internal memo criticizing the company's
diversity efforts the company was in a
bit of a difficult position one hand it
didn't want to look like it was
squashing the admittedly unpopular
opinions of one of its employees but
also didn't want to condone the
proliferation of falsehoods that women
were biologically less suited to work in
tech it's part of Silicon Valley's
broader struggle to include more
representation
more diversity you know with women and
minorities in particular but it's come a
complicated position right there was a
situation right then yeah yeah we talked
about this before the podcast and I
think at least the way that the author
opens it seemed pretty well reasoned as
far as that you know it sounded like
this person was a conservative and said
look conservative or other opinions
really aren't being addressed or
respected at Google it's kind of like a
monoculture and we should allow
diversity of opinions as law in as much
as a diversity of other things as far as
you know gender right from background
and that all sounds pretty reasonable
right unfortunately right biological
yeah telezart takes a turn for the for
the worst yeah I think he tends to go
off track a little bit he talks about
how you know women and men are
biologically different and that's what
he attributed to the fact that there's a
huge gap in the tech world also saying
that underrepresented people shouldn't
be shouldn't have supported programs
there's just a lot of negative in there
and I think it puts Danielle Brown
especially in a bad position you know
she was recently just hired back in June
yeah as the vp of diversity and clearly
they're trying to foster kind of this
inclusion within the company so it puts
them in a position you know what do you
do when this person is kind of tainting
what they're trying to do a little bit
right Brianne you've been researching
while you've been here
diversity issues yeah you've had an
opportunity to speak with quite a few
chief diversity officers and different
major tech companies what have you been
hearing from them what are some of the
efforts that they're trying to do to
create buy-in or or address some of
these issues that have been percolating
in the tech world for quite a few years
now yeah I think Google and a lot of
Silicon Valley to Silicon Valley tech
companies have been saying that
inclusion starts within the company that
you know the biggest thing is that
employees need to feel like they're
included they need to foster a sense of
you know everyone has these different
opinions but we need to understand that
everyone has an idea everyone has a
contribution to the company in their own
way regardless of their background their
gender and so I think that Danielle
brown was put in a very awkward position
in this in this case because it's like
what do we do when someone is kind of
questioning other people of different
backgrounds you know she's clearly
clearly Google has been making strides
towards improving their diversity in
conclusion you know they just reached a
diverse release a diversity report among
other companies and so I think by doing
anything other than firing him it's kind
of taking steps back for them right so
yeah from a practical level right like
it's gonna be tough for this guy to have
worked with other people now right his
name's kind of tainted like what it
might say yeah I mean just in terms of
it within Google right like he kind of
had to go because from a Productivity
level like who was gonna work with this
guy yeah I I would agree I think Google
was kind of had their hands tied on this
one but if I think a silver-lining
potentially would be that if it does
address the idea of providing a
diversity of opinions even if they're
unpopular to a certain extent maybe
that's a good thing that may come out of
those all right next up and we'll keep
it quick the HBO hack drama continues to
roll on as you know last month HBO was
the victim of a hack which a hackers
claimed that 1.5 terabytes of data was
stolen including episodes of shows like
Game of Thrones and dollars I know the
latest development from last night the
HBO received a or HBO received a
disclosure of a month's worth of emails
from one of its executives and also
hackers released a video to HBO see
Richard plepler demanding and sum of
money which has been redacted or face
having all that data get released I
don't know what do you think what do I
think
yeah I hope they don't like and really
even if they do release it to everyone
don't watch the stuff yeah you know just
wait you know be a good person Game of
Thrones fans are quite vicious - yeah
all right for those stories and more
check us out on Sina I'm Roger Cheng I'm
Ben Fox Ruben I'm Brienne Garrett thanks
for listening
all right let's jump right into the chat
we've got a lot of it's this is
sensitive subject matter so we have to
be as tactful as we can I think with
this let's go with Kyle Dawson he's got
a well thought out comment here this is
cutting off Asians and white at the
knees and force less qualified people on
the rolls just because of their skin
color we need blind enrollment not white
intellectual guilt and nonsense now
where do you think you're coming from
what that one sir
wait a minute I think the point is is
that as we continue to talk about
diversity you know out in public
I like those tend to be comments on a
lot of our diversity stories there are a
lot of people that have that opinion and
instead of you know going against the
those arguments and saying look you're
completely wrong I think ultimately you
know certain levels of buy-in need to be
created as instead of saying you're
wrong stop talking about that right shut
up like maybe I don't agree with this
person completely I don't think I do but
there has to be a way of like bringing
more people to the table to actually
explain why diversity is a good thing
for your company why diversity is a good
thing for you individually and your team
I mean I think there needs to be a
better understanding within these
companies that you know the the idea of
this whole blind hiring procedure that
you know that race and all that stuff
shouldn't matter par the prom is from an
institutional perspective all these
companies their hind processes are built
upon inherent biases that are already in
place right that that already kind of
excludes for minorities and certain
perspectives
and you know what I've talked to I've
talked to a lot of diversity you know
experts well they they talk to the key
benefit here you know it's not just
about being politically correct in
having you know a diverse workforce for
the sake of diversity it's about getting
different perspectives and you know a
company thrives when it has different
viewpoints because that's how ideas come
from right and so when you start to get
into that kind of like monoculture of
like one opinion that's when it gets
kind of dangerous that's when a couple
gets complacent and so bran did you get
a chance to
talk to the chief diversity officers
about that concept of buy-in is that
something that they addressed or they're
struggling with in any way yeah I think
a lot of them said there's kind of two
parts of the problem so hiring is one
kind of sector so you hire these people
you're doing the blind kind of
enrollment process application process
but once you are hiring these people how
are you keeping them satisfied when
they're actually hired so it's also
about keeping them you know fostering
exactly and fostering an environment of
inclusion once they're actually within
the company because just because they're
hired doesn't mean they're gonna stay
and doesn't mean they're gonna be yep
yeah what was the other part of that
getting recruiting and getting them into
the company and the other part is
keeping them happy once they're there
and gave them sort of advancing their
careers
exactly yeah I'm having a hard time
fishing for comments that I really think
are good commentary and everyone's
entitled to their opinion and I guess
I'm just gonna go ahead and start
sharing some Stanford says men and women
are different even psychologically men
like to deal with things women not so
much they are more on the human
interaction side I don't know if I agree
with that
yeah I respect your opinion I don't
necessarily agree with like like certain
concepts like that were what was
addressed in the memo so I guess it's
good that we're talking about it I mean
like it's pretty clear that you know a
lot of people in the tech world and
outside the tech world have those types
of positions and opinions and you know
it's it's important to like have you
know these types of conversation out in
public as opposed to just ignoring them
which is what we're not going to do here
yeah no I mean it's it's it's superfans
it's hard to be diplomatic in something
like this because it's hard to keep your
emotions aside of it but for sure I
think yeah the guy got fired the guy who
fired her you know like a lot of these
opinions were you know considered
against the code of conduct because
essentially it's like waving away you
know the justification for a lot of
people Act although you know the eating
that you know like which which does not
sound appropriate I mean playing devil's
afgan you know he says he's gonna
seek legal action that you know that
basically he was expressing his opinion
about the workplace and he was fired for
it I don't know maybe he has an issue in
case there I know it's too bad because I
don't think Google would actually be
able to afford fighting it you know
they're just like a small little startup
so they don't have employers you're
right you're really they're really in a
lot of trouble here over there I could
just sort of imagine that being an
interesting legal question I totally
agree and I think and if this does go
the legal route which I imagine it will
it will be very interesting to see you
know where the First Amendment lands now
do you think you'd go the legal route or
do you think that Google will settle
Google with the billions of billions of
dollars that's tricky
right I just I feel like you know it's
kind of the lesser of two evils in this
case when it comes to Google I think
they would have gotten a lot more
blacklash how they not fired him so
personally I think they want the correct
route especially given what they're
trying to do with their diversity
include iversity and inclusion so it's a
lesser of two evils and I pick I think
they picked the lesser of two evils in
this case right and you know ultimately
we probably will get sued for this I'm
sure this guy is heard from quite a few
lawyers oh yeah oh yeah and it's it's
yeah it could end up being a pretty
interesting legal argument yes as far as
like you do you do have a right to say
whatever opinions that you do want to
say but you know in in a workplace
environment directly related to code of
conduct right where does that land so
yeah well where's that line exactly is
that the code of conduct is that as you
said a thorny issue there is a really
great discussion going on in the chat
right now between Stanford and blue in
project Stanford latest comment was I
also think why there's more white males
it's because for every one minority
member applying there are ten from
over-represented pool it's not so much a
deliberate bias there's an interesting
perspective right and the memo addresses
you know matter of you know some some of
these you know gaps or differences might
not have a direct relation to you know
sexism or discrimination and that's also
another argument to at least discuss the
counter I'll give it to that is there
probably an equal number
women and men in Silicon Valley and you
don't sag you know even though it
doesn't look like that right yeah I
don't know but like in terms of
companies like the companies the rep the
breakdown doesn't represent the
population base I want to give a quick
shout out to Matthew dacher hey this is
definitely a topic that's then possible
to sum up in four minutes he is not
kidding yeah I tried I also want to
shout out imagine saggy who is
exemplifying exactly what was running
through my head through this it's
there's so many generalizations
individuals are individuals recruiting
women and people of color maybe harder
because of numbers but doesn't mean that
they are less qualified it's a cop out
of laziness I love that line yeah I kind
of blame a lot of things of laziness
personally professionally you know
yeah I'm just want to say thank you to
everybody for keeping it pretty civil in
the chat and it's an easy place to get
uncivil and it's neither shout-out to
our community here at CNET in the 359
totally like we should constantly
impressed and surprised but like the
cordial comments like the lack controls
about that yeah the lack control they
just kind of yeah yeah definitely not
the usual case right where the actual
discussion can happen so yeah absolutely
I agree with you Bryan and thank you
very much for everybody watching the
show yeah
imagine soggy says hi Ben oh well
bromance developing oh wait we can't
assume he's a man or woman that's true
romance of some sort then oh don't tell
my wife
all right so we could talk about this
forever and always and that would
probably get us nowhere
uh-huh let's just bring a little levity
back in and I am not as been
well-established on this show a game of
Thrones water so it's now for you guys
feeling throughout all of this are you
emotionally destroyed
that's a hack yes sport Oh
let's start did you see the legally
gonna do spoiler alerts here yes sir
alert if you want to well yeah that last
episode was kind of amazing right and I
wouldn't really well the thing of it is
the episode itself didn't leak it was
just an outline of the episode or like
the script I did not pursue it and so no
neither did I did you watch it by the
way I have yet to see a single episode
I just have I guess we shouldn't talk to
my thank you for not leaving me alone
that's not truth but yeah I I will watch
it too but I probably will forget so you
can even go ahead and do some spoilers
no no no I would just say like I think
if I had gone out as I'm sure some fans
didn't like read the script I would have
had a much inferior experience watching
the show like knowing what was to come
there were can you imagine like that one
fight sequence would have devolved into
just one line dragon provided an
emphasis no but I think it would have
ruined the experience right like I don't
think it would have been just like is
why I didn't even make an attack and I
know there are episodes of ballers which
I also watched starring Dwayne Johnson I
did not pursue those episodes I am one I
wouldn't recommend anyone do just
principal principal hey they wore
Charlie's episodes yeah rollers shut up
bad for the 1% hey it's a lot it's a lot
larger than 1% actually it's just
probably Game of Thrones fans are super
vocal and they're they're just rabid so
that's why it seems like there are a lot
more of us which I had a nickel for
every time somebody said you haven't
seen Game of Thrones and it's just like
I'm not doing it intentionally have
nothing against to him I'm just lazy I
don't pay attention yes I got all goes
back to laziness I get about 10 minutes
in doing is like what's going on already
you need a pen and paper and you take
note yeah first and there's why it's
endearing I get that first season was
really tough to get the first couple of
episodes cuz you're like everyone has
all these names
using a myriad of characters and right
and once you get to know them they all
get you know murder that's not a secret
everyone dies all right we should
probably wrap it up soon yeah yeah who's
asking about the forthcoming studio tour
we are working on it yeah I heard you
guys requests loud and clear
it can't it's it's kind of falling on
the backburner just because there's a
lot coming up I got another to Samsung
event on the horizon yeah we got to
crank out other stuff but I am talking
the Beecham in San Francisco and there's
definite interest it could be fun we
hope to get that to you guys soon thanks
for bugging Brian about yeah yeah we've
got we've got a really busy fall coming
up between note or a road trip series is
still going on and then we've got i
phone in september so very interested to
see what that looks like
same here that's I'm like debating
between buying that gsa versus waiting
for the pixel to I know this is serious
1% problem okay first of all problem
what was the problem first world problem
yeah you're not kidding oh geez all
right bring it home run all right if you
like to anything you saw or heard here
check us out on CNET our podcast is also
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right it's all right
see y'all tomorrow thank you bran for
joining us thank you yeah
you
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