Gadgetory

and good Wednesday morning on Wednesday October 11th it's time for the 359 podcast my name is BBG welcome everybody back sorry we spaced out on you yesterday well as per usual technical difficulty pens fault it's always been small that's right but it's episode 297 yeah holy cow and today we got there Roger Chang and Scott Steiner hello morning guys hey glad to be here so we've got a great show for you we're gonna be talking about virtual reality and who better to talk about VR than Scott Stein our resident VR expert and loup-garou Google goop goggle man Google Google man obviously today this lair this morning lair today oculus will hold or Facebook will hold its oculus connect event Zuckerberg it's gonna be on stage we know hopefully he'll address his little little faux pas snafu sure laughs ooh um whoopsie-daisy as well see Daisy and hopefully give us some more information about where the old world is going cuz it's you know it's been kind of like it's sputtered a bit it feels very stagnated but it's still there still there it's still there and the technology keeps changing kind of so as always if you have you have any questions leave it in the comment section I know you have questions for Scott leave them in the comments section Brian will get to them and we will answer them in three minutes 59 seconds from 3:00 to welcome to the 3:15 I'm Roger Chang I'm here with special guest Scott Stein I are you doing pretty good I would envy our but speaking of which we are talking about virtual reality and Facebook's oculus connect event which is later on today we want to give you a quick preview of what what you expect Scott being our resident VR expert what are you hoping to see from connect today well first of all Mark Zuckerberg is just coming off the heels of this moment where he showed himself in Puerto Rico virtually is a cartoon avatar that was very bad optics but it also brings up the point of where VR is at now which is which is feels like limbo you know VR has not sold a lot of hardware at all and a year later we're talking more about AR on phones than we're talking about VR now Facebook has has taken over most of what oculus represents after acquiring it yeah and there's been a lot of changes internally so I think that means that in the end it started on PCs but it's inevitably moving much more towards mobile and I think we're gonna hear a lot about that at oculus connect the continuing mission there and also how you get people to use this because right now people are trying a are a lot of people still don't have VR yeah and and if they have they feel like they kind of done it already right and the big impediment to your point about going to mobile is you have to buy these expensive PC rigs to run these headsets oculus still requires a PC and and I think you're right I think they want to get to mobile they want to get to as as many people as possible at this point it's not about I feel like at this point of VR it's not about making money on hardware or anything like that it's just getting people to actually use this stuff right and the bigger picture here which all these companies are pursuing Google Facebook Apple's getting into this a bit you're look at Microsoft you're looking at really the longer picture of shared worlds you know and whether that's a RvR mixed reality the blending of that it might be kind of post Hardware maybe that sounds like it like a duck but it is where these things are going what does that mean in the meantime though do you have to buy these rigs to hook into and how do you advance it because all these companies are looking at a future that is kind of well beyond that but you're still stuck in the present of a lot of little bridges and a lot of different things right he'll disappoint if for a lot of these customers like does that mean that they just they end up paying to be guinea pigs for this grand future that isn't here yet I stuck with hardware that you know is will soon become legacy equipment right and then you have you know Google is still sticking around with that with daydream VR Samsung's got your VR which is in partnership with oculus those are low priced and often come with your gear maybe Facebook talks more about how they're building stuff or developing new tech beyond that again using your phone and and socially what does that mean well it's like you know who else you're doing this with that's what Zuckerberg was trying in some ways to demonstrate in that video really not well at all yeah I mean that was that really terrible that was really cringe-worthy it to his defense mark being in the headset actually experiencing in first-person he probably doesn't see the optics of it you know right you don't see yourself you don't know you don't know your tune right and and and and there are tremendous powers of empathy if you can't get somewhere but it shouldn't be a substitute for you actually getting there and that's the difference between you know in activism and distance there's a lot of things there but that is a question go see these Facebook does want to get more political and social with VR Facebook's already super political than a lot of stuff going on with Facebook right now with with Russia and with a lot of other things so yes that is a big overarching question is as oculus is Facebook how does that get represented and what could you get in the future is it still the same hardware I also want to see I mean they talked about it a lot last year you know as oculus or VR as a communications tool we haven't gotten a lot of that you know these cartoon avatars that they're not really out there yet so I want to see I want some more of that frankly just how do we interact in this VR role because it is a very isolated experience it's interesting so those first demonstrates the spaces are fascinating but it is kind of like a weird ready player one mess we're like you know you have these cartoon avatars in your floating video and how does that all intersect I think they're gonna explore that a lot more that seems to be a really key focus of where oculus is going next you know we'll hear about it all right we that's we've got a ton more to unpack we'll try to do more the QA but for now I'm Roger Chang I'm Scott Stein thanks for listening well you guys can really crammed in a lot in four minutes there's a huge amount of effort to address some of the stuff yes definitely that was very very cringe-worthy hey guys this disaster zones kind of depressing you want to teleport back to back oh yeah well anyone defend it but I see got you need to make a microphone oh yeah thanks I so like I mean again - he's probably not seeing this in real time so I can see and he was trying to talk about the efforts that Facebook had put in to help the you know assistance residents of Puerto Rico that their own relief efforts but yeah the way it was done it just wasn't executed well as you said the optics of it was it's the optics so so I've had experience with the VR going way back and so it reminds me of him he'll talk about it and there's a lot of blowback there's a lot of discussions and people are getting really upset about the idea of you know VR and when when empathy is brought up and and getting angry because again the the optics with with Mark Zuckerberg and relating to people is always a lot of jokes about robotic and you know not relating to human beings and so that certainly doesn't help that image of that but you know one of my first experiences with with VR was watching the documentary has now become like the poster child for this but documentary clouds over Sidra which was awareness you know of Syrian conflict and and it was very emotionally overpowering I started a couple years ago I mean it was when VR was really in its infancy was before oculus rift was available and that was something that made me realize that you can cry in VR made you maybe more aware of the space weren't there correct me if I'm wrong number of experiences Hugh and Joan actually tried out the Tribeca Film Festival that yes like elicited the same kind of emotional impact right yeah I know there are really powerful experiences there was one there's one set at the you know it was a show a project set in a concentration camp where the survivor actually guides you through and and talks about it and if that sounds like a you know it's not it's not contrived it's um it feels real and and and unreal and that sort of the challenge with VR it feels like you're in a living museum exhibit there's great care about how you enter and how you exit that and actually a lot of those exhibits are not ones you can try at home they're designed to be in a public space because they don't want they want to take care of how you perceive it because it's a very it's very delicate and as I guess the best way to put it and that's something that you think about when you bring about oh you can bring up Porto Rico you do this like you have to think about how you approach these topics and these emotions when you use hardware like right you making sure you have the proper gravitas for some of these yeah more heavier topics i I did no serve on a side tangent that I've been seeing more VR arcades so speak pop up around the city even you're in Long Island where I live I was they they've been around a long time well no these are using the craze but these are a little bit newer because they're they're basically all new running on like HTC vive czar oculus wrist you have been using stuff you can't get like star VR like other like types of prototype right right I feel like I've noticed them popping up in more locations around just us but again that's the conversation we're having right now is it not are they still just toys is VR just gonna be the gaming thing so I think there's like two thing that's a really good question that's a good question I think it's a matter of renting versus buying for a while but it's also running I find that there's of those workaround balls there's the VR Akkad's yeah at the same time and I don't know if it's the same thing or different you have a continuous growth of escape rooms you have immersive experiences that are like kind of quasi escape room quasi something else the void is one that it kind of blends that that's one there they did a Ghostbusters experience so that was a and they're gonna be developing other experience as a Star Wars based one I wanted to go to that Ghostbusters thing well they're gonna right is it gone Ghostbusters is done it's contrived but the idea is that you you you start blending in a lot of these companies are saying we're not just about VR we're about other things there was one I saw at Samsung where this company is trying to develop one in Chelsea Market that's gonna blend AR VR and immersive but I think that there is a question of how much is this a band a door or a bridge to future tech and I also think that well going back to like clouds over Sidra I keep thinking about if you're gonna have empathy if you're gonna bring in the real world it's best to do it I don't know I my feeling is it's best to do it for places that you can't access yep and to be able to understand and so in that sense Puerto Rico is not a bad idea because the average person is not going to be able to travel there right now right so you could get an understanding but Mark Zuckerberg as a person could do a lot and go places so you know there's a matter of like is he us or is he representing him and so it's a very complicated question I think it's got a lot of power but I think when you see it like that it really creates a sense of distance and there is a distancing effect like and in the end if I'm watching a political conflict in VR should I even feel like I have the right to say that I understand it right right I feel that no way I shouldn't because that is really a primary purpose of that VR experience it's meant to give you a taste I guess the same idea of documentary work where you're like you know you or you meant to experience you know if you if you have a document about show a based uh you know there's a line between understanding and saying that you know they know what's going on it's it's very fine line but I think it enters into that so why don't we get to some questions right let's do just that so right up first Danny Green our boy Danny Green hey daddy I think VR will have a great future in the medical field it can provide a safe environment for doctors to Train definitely I don't think anyone's gonna oh yeah totally I mean actually I think frankly AR is more has more practical use because I've talked to a couple of doctors who use smart glasses with with images that are overlaid Oh under glasses that they can sort of use as reference when they're performing a surgery like that for me seems like a more immediate practical benefit than like VR training so it's interesting I kind of feel like it could go both ways because I agree with you but listen I'm starting my I don't know my brother-in-law who is an anesthesiologist and it kind of feel like he doesn't well he's already a trained doctor so he feels like in the end he's not gonna relate to it right but I I wonder if when it comes to AR pop-up information would be good but the lag might be something that from an from a practical standpoint of training might not be quite there VR at least can be very lag free and could give you a sense of yeah immediacy of the doctors that I've talked to usually they have like an x-ray it's not changing it's it's a reference but it's a reference point exact like a pop-up like AR as a diagnostic basically you know the map when you're playing a video game yeah it's the map that shows you which way to go and like with heads-up display that's that's exactly what's wrong classes are Oh Scott that's a title of your next podcast life with heads-up display that's good you like that let's just make that happen what he said I get 10% what's uh what's nice question 10% my bags I guess so the next question is really you're striking a lot of chords with this VRA our discussion well James favored early on in the chat ask a RvR which one is better and there's a lot of subjectivity to that I want to just kind of build on this because there's a lot of relevant relative comments before we go into any specific responses so imagine sake says VR will always be a niche product consumers would rather use AR it's more practical all things Austin says I believe AR holds much more value than VR but I don't hate it and then James favored requests 359 and VR never never oh well we tried that we did we did 359 and 360 that was miserable that was 360 videos pain should we do in his Facebook spaces no no no okay everyone so anyways I'm soon done AR vs. VR no that's a I was actually thinking about this a lot and and and coming off the heels of apples AR kit I'm used they are core for Google yet but I look forward to doing it I played around with a lot of apps I've been posting things on Twitter stuff and you know at first glance a so AR is interesting the future for it is wide open in the moment it looks pretty impressive terms of like a quick demo of what you can do but AR has got a lot more holes and a lot more bugginess from my experience the real world is messy and things have glitches all the time that's why I think AR kit these phones are doing it you're not putting it on your head because if you did the glitchyness would drive you insane oh yeah you probably goes sick yeah you get sick you know it would just all be broken for you so that needs to be the training wheels for it so there's a long curve there and I think the apps I actually spend less time in the AR apps because they often feel like one-off little novelties VR I got to go back and give it a lot of credit I don't spend more than an hour in VR I still feel like I can't it just gets you a giant screen in your face I feel like I've got like a 15 to 20 minute limit before my start to get time yeah an hour is like after a while dude yeah get up to an hour but afterwards I really feel like I've been on like a weird journey and at my eyes need detox which is not good but the thing about VR and I go back and I think about last year's launches I got to give a lot of credit to all the companies for the most part that they launched with pretty solid VR libraries and everything worked worked and was ready to go it didn't feel like a beta it felt all set and still the libraries the problem is they don't have triple-a games to me that beat well you can do outside of VR and that's why you don't go back in but I do just give a lot of credit that the general content of VR is more polished and evolved and what's an AR and the conversation being had in the chat right now is about what other triple-a titles they could see besides Resident Evil 7 and the wish list started coming down the line which is for ports are generally bad because there is they don't it doesn't map right it's kind of like the same thing happened when you move to 3d games after 2d platformer games it's like you have to reinvent the idea of what it means to make a game in VR actually you actually have to make it with the express purpose right being I just put it in there the epitome of that example that went extraordinarily right was Metroid when they went to Metroid Prime in 3d yeah and somebody suggested Metroid VR and yes a thousand times yes incredible well at one point well Nintendo enter VR cuz I feel like it's bound to happen I'm gonna just go ahead and say that they have a history with main there they are kind of the peripheral Virtual Boy was that VR VR I don't even speak those words in there but it's a Nintendo's DS or something like that they had the 3ds so buckle up for this one you know the other request was or wishlist item for video games in VR was dark souls 6 sick person what's that behind me oh I died again yeah they're just be the image of the words you died burned into the VR goggles come on I can't that's such a bad idea alright let's knock out a couple more questions and comments before call today Josh boy des last year I messed around with Google cardboard and I thought it was just okay is it worth switching to daydream Scott yes yeah it's cardboard is like basically the it's the poor man freebie version just check it out this is kind of a VR looks like it's super low res it's not the real experience laggy and click on things easily daydream if you've got the phone that supports it get daydream I mean it's worth the 82 $100 or whatever it costs for that headset a lot of apps are free you can play around with them though I mean the controller is great it's a huge difference both that and the gear VR which are very similar in their little controllers it's like a little magic wand you can point and yeah try it not being said I still think it's got its limits but there's a big leap forward yeah in what it feels like and the new version of daydream which I haven't used is supposed to feel more comfortable it's supposed to look a little less squished optically and is meant to actually not cause your phone to overheat as much it's got a heatsink built-in oh so that's interesting I don't know how that yeah because that's that was even with the original daydream I mean all these things gear VR my phones would overheat like that yeah it was a real issue Samsung I thought gear VR to be a better piece of hardware for VR and dangering up to this point but I'm curious about the new version of daydream and I think Google's making really introduced drives and integrating Android I think it helps that the newer versions are running on or using phones that run on the new 35 oh yeah Snapdragon platform like that that helps so much yeah because it was taxing the older processor and really just drained the battery like that so well they were trying to try to create a common ground for that and that's kind of what you need to do and that's what Apple's doing now with with a our kit is they've have the advantage of trying to build common platform for chips and that's that's what you already have with pcs so as far as compatibility goes Josh boy de also asks is the LG g5 daydream compatible no no g5 for sure is not daydream compatible effect the old g6 it might be make she knows I've taught my have G section Google has a list online there's about like a 15 phones that work if you want the most VR compatible phone samsung galaxy s 8 and s8 plus work on both gear VR and daydream they only cross VR because Samsung is the only one that does gear VR that's really cool but then you need to have two different headsets however you could because there are about a hundred just pick the one you want at that point you have one y at least you get the option but there are some unique experiences on both if you were like a mobile VR fanatic it wouldn't financially destroy you to do that but I really wouldn't suggest you get two different headsets - right not really worth it well I mean for mine to be fair I have both and they both collect us it right now all of my collectors my PlayStation VR clicks test I bought one last year I was tremendously excited and I can't find myself I I only dust it off and bringing out one like a guest comes over hey check out this cool VR thing and then they're like oh cool put it back in the closet I just yeah I stopped all right let's let's help somebody out with the the final question of the day Caesar in the chat has been very curious about the VR craze hasn't had a chance to experience it says he's been all-in since lawnmower man Wow so let's love it I love the enthusiasm let's talk about some 102,000 I used to read that possibly dabbled in and cardboard and daydream what's a good introductory system to get involved in with oculus rift vibe or PlayStation VR what do you think is the best foot first foot in the door of the VR world I don't think I don't think any of those were the good foot first foot I would say one of the mobile wants like a dream you know it would put those behind us Oh more heavy duty full-fledged yeah alright okay so assuming you have a PC that is VR ready check your graphics and make sure you've got that because otherwise you're gonna kind of invest into that but all these are running that similar platform obviously what was your what Scott what was your first was it when you were starting to dabble what was when you really went oh that was neat so I think oculus rift is still it's very debatable but I think oculus rift is a great one because what the price drop is good I like their software library I've liked oculus a software library for a while there's a lot of really solid titles I think the layout for if you come in for the first time the hub the dashboard the way it all feels and curates feels like a game console the thing about vive is that's a little more under the hoodie feeling with the way connects with Steam there's a ton of titles out there it's fun that it links into a lot of steam stuff there's a lot of like early access stuff on Steam is a little less clear auntie programs there's also things on Steam that are that are meant for different VR platforms or just cool it's spread it's a cross but it gets a little more confusing is a little less it's a look feels a less curated because a lot less curated and does anything crowdsource would be and vibe you can wander around it better you can still do it with with the the the rift sensors you can do it better with vibe but you can do a fine job with it with rift and I just like the controller is better too I think rifts controllers the touch ones are great PlayStation VR is great if you're rid of a PlayStation 4 but it's you know it's it's your your mileage will be limited surprise I don't know what the future is there with their Hardware over time yeah at least peace Caesars that there's a more upward slope just just let me say my first and only real hands-on experience with VR was with the psvr and I made the huge huge huge huge huge huge huge mistake of playing the Batman virtual reality game not critically anti Batman here but the first thing I did was a level called origin story use your imagination knowing the history of what the origin story level of Batman VR would be very traumatic yeah that's my two cents yeah I mean personally I like the vibe just because of the emotional freedom of motion feel like it's a little bit better than the riff but I don't know you've got more experience with software the titles so if you have the space yeah I want to create I don't have the space for a live system because it's it does require pretty much an entire room but if you're sitting down and you also want to get up and move a bit rift is the best of both worlds and I think that you're gonna be happier with rift software library just because they have a lot more they've been investing more in unique content and there are some great games in the back catalogue or really good games so I do like where I do like rift still gotcha alright that's a great place to wrap it up yeah Roger bring us home alright if you liked anything you saw or heard here check this out on CNET our podcast is also available on iTunes TuneIn stitcher SoundCloud Feedburner and google play music we'll see y'all tomorrow thanks for joining us kaat thanks guys thank you everybody