Interview: Ivan Van Norman is our guest dungeon master on Tomorrow Daily
Interview: Ivan Van Norman is our guest dungeon master on Tomorrow Daily
2016-07-29
welcome back to the show everybody our
guest today I'm very excited to welcome
to the studio he is a game designer he
is also a producer on tabletop one of
one of my favorite shows because I'm
gonna be on it next season he's also a
host on geek and sundry a master of all
things board games author of a
children's book what is it you don't do
I'm in van norman thanks for stopping by
hey thanks for having me so that was a
great intro god I should just put them
on my bio yeah aster of all facets of
all things i feel like i need that the
sword of omens in front of me why don't
say that so I'm very excited i as a as a
fellow tabletop aficionado I'm very glad
to have you here you first thing I want
to ask you about is writing your own
role playing game Oh God um so I wrote
it with my buddy in college it's called
outbreak undead at the zombie survival
simulation RPG wow it's it's it's real
world zombie real world zombie invasion
well it's got different scales but what
what people often like about it is is
that you can accurately simulate any
kind of zombie apocalypse in any type of
some situation you want with any kind of
zombies that you want to the degree of
realism that if you take a 30 question
personality test on our website it pops
out your course that's if you to play
yourself as a character Wow awesome nope
an avatar system which there are some of
them out in the world and there are some
zombie games in the world but not really
one that like makes them kiss my kisses
ami we're talking about it sort of seems
like a really great marriage of plague
Inc pandemic and Dungeons and Dragons no
I'm and in so it's and people always ask
us like what's the difference between
you and other role playing games and
were like well there's not a game zout
there that represent like the hack and
slash of like the classic like I'm just
going for body count right but then
there's uh where can like The Walking
Dead and which is just Fievel my
survival service you stay at a farm a
year right and sometimes your aural stay
in house yes stay I I would love to play
that because well I had a chance to play
the end of the world games right that
fantasy flat were similar in the sense
that they do want to try to make they
want to make us that you can make a
custom care
that might closely represent yourself
but they're the way that they do
character creation is is that you put a
dice in a bag and then you you have your
course that's laid out and then you
everyone boats right whether or not you
should have a higher lower state yeah
that's you or not which is very
interesting free political like you're
you're a star a way to lose friends very
quickly what do you mean I don't think
of a four yeah we did the same thing
mais at least hahahaha it's a good bit
but we tried to do an arbitrary device
cuz our test was designed by people who
build test for psychological essays Wow
oh interesting labs cuz my my partner
who helped make the book with it has a
background in psychology you guys go by
like Briggs myers or and all up in
specific crackers any other the IDS at
the test the test is supposed to like um
not lead you okay I'm not tell you that
you're supposed to be doing any
particular thing and it mixes the order
up so that there's no real um question
about whether or not that's going to it
like that's the right choice right
better situation like oh yeah that's the
one I want to answer for the stat that
I'm looking for yes yeah I get it I
guess so it's it's a it's good because
it doesn't give you it doesn't force an
identity on you that you that you that
you are personifying or that you wish to
personify it's very neutral cool I want
to ask you another question yes as a
deep dive I wargaming question say I was
so excited to introduce the two of these
yeah because I knew they'd we got about
site we did right away I want to ask you
about this field asst yaris because the
the biggest board game award in the
world was given out last week or two
weeks ago now so huge games up for the
camera video which is sort of like the
gamers game award time stories again I
absolutely adore which is great pandemic
legacy we have now the number one game
on board game yeah it has been for a
while it's like that's the jam right and
then one thought it was going to win
shoo-in but upset isle of skye one isle
of skye and played ilex guy have you i
have it and i haven't played it it was a
pretty big maybe we should not oh you
know sorry I have played it I'm sorry it
was one of the games that we were
actually reviewing for tabletop I have
played it it's a great game yeah I hope
so it's a really good game but their
hopes but in all in in this man's one
opinion embodying opinions
seriously thought pandemic legacy was
going to kill it yeah I did too I sort
of assumed that that would that would
when I saw you like traveled to Germany
to accept the award yet but here's the
said any this shows on his social media
tour he's like I'm ready yeah yeah but
it's uh I think that my only theory
around this is that in Europe the board
gaming circuit there is so vastly
different the likes and desires and
there are uh it's to the point of where
there's like euro games and then what
they're starting to call a Mara games or
if you're a little snobby some people
say ameri trash you know which i think
is a terrible harm because all games are
great in their own terms and ways and
well you wouldn't call another game
Eurotrash either well there you go there
you go but the point is is that they are
your acer different audience made for
different audiences and Isles the sky as
a lot more of a a robust kind of dynamic
game may have been more alert and
pandemic legacy while completely
changing the way games have been done my
old be fair risk legacy that at first
but who cares who did it first it was a
great game really expand yeah so yeah
yeah I kind of feel the same way but
what are you playing stuff now that you
are you playing right now what's good to
like what were the hidden gems out there
cuz obviously the big games people have
probably heard about but because because
board games have seen such a huge
resurgence right in parking lots a story
and geek and sundry like we've seen a
lot of that come back up I've seen now
at target you can get you know ticket to
ride and you get settlers of catan that
was stuff you could not find at a
regular retail store you had to go to a
special board game store yet which are
getting you know there were rare rare
and now they're coming back you go to
barnes and nobles you can buy miniature
games they're back you can buy core
rulebooks for D&D and even even a dark
heresy which is the Warhammer 40k RPG
like they exist in these places now yeah
everyone to enjoy right and so the ones
i'm liking right now the obscure one
that's not new but it's one of my
favorite games and I keep coming back to
it over and over again is wrapped her
it's a two-player game mmm that's a
tactics it's a cat-and-mouse game in
which you each have an active deck
there's only nine cards in the deck and
you have a raptor who's trying to
protect her three babies and you have a
team of scientists who are trying to
capture the three babies interesting and
uh well there's actually five babies in
it but that's just being technical for
the people out there maybe there's five
babies in the set but getting off the
street nurse you I've ever seen click
but the the the reason I like it is
because it's a two-player game which are
rare and it has a high replay value and
it's the ideas that you each put a card
down that has a number value and just
like war whoever has the lowest number
wins and then if there's any difference
between the numbers say like the
scientists play two three and the Raptor
plays a six the rapture gets three
action points to move around the board
um you know likewise the sciences get to
do the same thing interesting and it's
kind of a tug of war tactics that just
really doesn't have what do they call it
non symmetry sim non Simmons
non-symmetrical tactics which means that
they both it's not just two different
factions that had the same thing and
they're just pushing at it with
different strategies they both have
unique ways of controlling the board now
with their cards and with their action
points we find that grab matter rectal I
love a good two player game cuz uh
because you know my husband I have no
friends somebody don't want a call to
bring your buddy over right I know yeah
that suppose you play a board game and
it's like oh then I gotta get people to
come to my house and it's like it's such
a thing in LA to get people to come to
your house because they're also spread
out which is why whenever I'd host board
games now it's like if you're hosting
you're paying for food like that's kind
of the qualifier if you gas to get over
then the host gets to feed hose feeds I
liked athletes yeah you drive post beats
I like it what's a good rule you
mentioned a new show you guys are
starting right that is you described in
a very cool way okay uh so we have two
shows on geek and sundry one is our
board game show called game the game
which we do every Thursday I was on it
you were totally how much fun we play
again I'm miniature tiny kingdoms for
all time you know that I just remember
us speaking in very small voice good
we have tiny epic Western now oh very
nice which is something that will be
doing a video on uh pretty soon I'm the
but that's our board game sure like 60
episodes at this point and it's so fun
it's with Becca right Becca Scott Kern's
who is just a real backstabber that's
not what I expected you to go she looks
innocent and kind she looks like a
beautiful medieval princess she will she
will take you a vicious cheater this
year unbelievable cheater I hope she's
watching this factor skater and also uh
one of the most ruthless board game
players I've ever encountered and I love
her for that girl ever for using extra
board game yeah is the dexstar board
yeah but then the show that we were
talking about before getting on here is
a weave a role-playing game show on
Monday nights from seven until ? usually
10 or 11 which we're it's basically a
certain set of characters that are
jumping from RPG universe to RPG
universe to our beach universe so it's
kind of like sliders and quantum leap
meets role-playing game interesting
somebody get me Scott Bakula all right
seriously here and what makes the show
fun is that they're all the same
characters so it's not you have a
character to identify with as you jump
our visitors yes max yeah cuz the
Thursday night critical role show one of
the reasons that people love it is
because it's it's like they get so
attached to the characters and the story
kind of unfolds around them right yeah I
really we can get invested you get
invested in your favorite character or
your favorite sort of storyline amongst
the characters while still showcasing
different role playing games things
which was mine key thing I wanted to do
I was like hey there's other things out
there besides D&D yeah you know so we're
playing World of Darkness right now
moved on to werewolf the forsaken which
is still part of world of darkness in
the past we play like outbreak undead
there was uh obviously there was a show
a couple silly one-offs we did uh
there's actually snakes on the plane a
plane role-playing game I found in a
wider net nice what yep so I love the
idea of not only not only are you you
know
jumping into a new story a new venue a
new time period perhaps but new systems
there are completely new rule sets you
learn each episode very challenging yeah
like have to learn a whole new system
like every three months or so or you
every month to pay what it is and so we
fill it in with lots of little things
that have like a rule the rules are all
fit on one page like everyone is John
which we played on a national tabletop
day great everyone is jon is or every PC
is John one person but they all bid the
players to take control of John's mind
and they go and try to fulfill their
their objectives while they have control
of John's body but any point John could
fall asleep wow they all have to bid for
control over Johnny I could be knocked
unconscious yeah John could slip and
fall I mean there's so many things i can
have too many things you can just fall
asleep because narcoleptic it tired yeah
yeah you just suddenly fall asleep
didn't get enough sultan it is a
hilarious system I gotta play that we
let sugar level I love indie
role-playing games cuz they're such wild
I was playing a game cool ideas yeah
right it's some things that you'd be
like I don't know if this works but I
like it yeah and even if you only take
the time to do like one session with it
yeah if you're getting that enjoyment
out of it that's wonderful absolutely
you know there's fake core which is
gonna be featured on tabletop this year
we had another game we call we played on
table hook on misspent youth which is a
really funny in the RPG in which you're
basically playing like the the 1980s
kinda was that uh Prime a disclosed
documentary of the punks oh we call it
something like if there was a chat in
front of me right now they'd be like why
are all the things they'll tell you on
YouTube in the comments comments bishop
post oh no you like Sid Vicious or
something yeah the whole point is that
it's supposed to be like a misspent
youth youth culture rising up against an
authority and the gym plays the
authority and youth the youth culture
whose part of this is trying to like
work in this dystopian or system that
they don't like and they have to go
through like the character arcs that you
often see
in those kind of movies are those kind
of stories a gattaca you know um having
hard time recalling some the other ones
right now but that kind of dystopian
society right yeah uh it's fun Hunger
Games the ideas that you the whole
mechanic is is that when you when you
when when the authority makes you mad
enough you're supposed to grab your
Dyson go I stand up and then you roll to
see at what level like as its 1 through
12 yeah and if you land on that number
if the authority has already grabbed
that number then you can claim that
number and be like I'm gonna use my
ingenuity to get myself out of the
system because each character has their
own personification yeah but the
authority claim that number previously
and part another role the authority wins
and then you have to find out how to how
to go around it in the next chapter
there's nothing quite as powerful to
stand up against something in a roll
dice yeah I stand up when we we're gonna
wrap things up but when can everybody
watch all of these shows like
specifically give us the schedule it's
got a lot going on so monday nights
seven to eleven the forever verse is the
show that's great Aang in which we jump
from the system to system from universe
to universe exploring all the wildness
that RPG systems have to offer and then
Thursday night game the game is from
four to seven and that's all both on the
geek & sundry twit show twitch.tv / geek
& sundry and which by the way has a
really nice chat room there's like nice
super nice people in the chat there I
was like it's it's a very strange like
internet phenomenon that particular chat
room really nice our community very
welcome AZ funny great if you're one of
those people come join us yeah because
we'd like to have you i'm in van doren
thanks you so much for being here man I
could talk to you for like two hours and
be that's fine it'd be so easy you're
easy to talk to so risotto so are you um
and then what's the book what's old look
if you're going to gencon board gamers
out there the ABCs of RPGs which is a
children's book and activity book will
be filled on that starting this gencon
fantastic title you can't pick it up
there because we have to ship at the
backers first but if you want to come
check it out look at it and then it's
going to be shipping in September you
came
pre-order it right now in backer kit
it's a 36-page full cover a is for
adventure may you always be on one B is
for book the source of all of our fun c
is for creatures of all shapes and size
D is for dice can you count all the
sides well done yeah easy I just felt
just in time where do you make us an
audio book that we can in fact also yeah
that's actually being done by Mary
McKellen oh great yeah she's right and
then the library bards did the
sing-along song Oh perfect haha one step
ahead he actually thank you so much for
coming on the show and hanging out with
us geek & sundry obviously they're right
down the street from us we love all of
our friends at Nerdist in geek and
sundry so make sure you check out game
the game because it's a blast and check
out answers cuz it's so good it is
really fun Swizz vanity oh my calm gonna
be part of the fun you want your neck
I'd like join one of the best moments in
all four seasons of tabletop I'll tell
you was it great that tabletop episode
that I'm on is pretty amazing John hands
anymore I could say who's there you
can't say who's there John Ross now I
was there Jackie Kashian which we had on
the show a while ago we had Michelle
morrow on the show will of course guess
Game Master and then Travis Willingham
Travis Willingham was there it was just
the most fun i am telling you guys you
can't wait for that show to come out but
Ivan thank you so much for coming on the
show we are going to take a quick break
and then we'll be right back to tell you
a little about everest VR I climbed
Mount Everest in Brussels rowdy and what
we're into this week and of course our
phone target for the day so don't click
weights tomorrow daily
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.