Gadgetory

3:59 is sponsored by USB technology the USB implementers forum reminds consumers that USB if' logos are displayed on certified USB products so the next time you're shopping for a reliable USB charger cable or device look for the logos get the whole story at enabling USB org hey good morning everybody and welcome to the 359 podcast it is episode 439 and I'm BVG the rude crude bag of P food - doot and here you host Joan Roger and Scott Stein here to talk about something that's making a big splash that's right morning everyone we've got special guest Scott Stein special agent Scott special agent backups his mission in Florida drive hard it was to not tweet from from the airport and in Florida and he's got on there who's got some special intelligence for us all talking about his impressions from the new magic leap one aar headset which how much does it cost is pretty pricey 2295 not for normal human beings like us no no no for 22 bucks it's about the price of a discount PlayStation 4 game yeah so as always we'll just be focusing on magic leap and so if you have any questions for Scott I know you don't have questions for us because we don't know anything leave them in the comments section Brian will get them is a lot to say about alright so as always leave your questions in the comment section Brian will pick out the best and we'll get them in 3 minutes and 59 seconds from 3 - welcome to the 259 I'm Roger Cheng I'm Joanie Sussman and with us is special guest Scott Stein who recently had the opportunity to try out the magically one yeah got thanks for joining us oh thanks can you share your impressions is this the big you know game-changer an AR that we've been waiting for no it's not the big game-changer rabbit we're done we're done um well you know magic we've had a lot of promises and I was and I've seen a lot of vrn AR and you want it to make a magic leap to another world and if you tried microsoft hololens odds are you haven't it's been out for a couple of years that unlike VR is trying to project things into the real world and I think magic leap has made steps they're using light-filled technology which is supposed to provide it does provide a crisper I think higher graphics feel but it still feels like a glowing almost ghostly type of thing like apparitions which do feel sometimes quite compelling but the limited field of view is still there it's very it's really like a squared off area so it means like you're looking through a window mmm that breaks the illusion and the controller and you know it's not perfect and the head doesn't work with my glasses hasn't very specified fit that plus it's 2295 $2295 that is aimed at developers and they very clearly say that so I think this is like early days kind of like the years before oculus even had a VR headset that was for the show you shouldn't be waiting in line for the magic leave one no and it's only available in six cities so you probably can't even win a line for it so it's gonna be white glove delivery in those six cities because you have to get a special fit and and if you're if you have glasses or prescription lenses with mine you couldn't even get that Wow okay so I mean look you tried out a number of demos while you were there well you know what impressed you the most um what a Presley the most were the small things and I think magically we talked about this too that they want to have little little details I remember a floating robot where the smoke trails coming out of the robot really looked nice and wispy there was a one cigarette as a musical a our experience called ten Andy was that the most highly produced it feels kinda selling you see the Museum of Natural History almost like where you're touching things and making musical tones happen but I thought that the the undersea creature II things look good there were particles in the air that I could move around in my video I sound like I'm tripping out talking it's but it was those elements that actually felt very nice but anytime you're trying to really layer something on top of the real world like at one point the gun the controllers holding became partially a virtual Raygun you can still see a bit of the seam there and so we're not at the point where it feels indistinguishable but I think that there's more potential but it feels more like a building block to try to begin just begin to explore what this can do and you didn't even get to see all of the panoply of things that they said that you'd be able to have like they have so many other partners that you didn't even get to see anything produced by those Pino I mean I saw about like over half an hour demos but it was a very run down I mean I got to see their the painting app which was like a you know cut if you've done the VR tools like tilt brush it's it's not as good as that but you can paint in the air I tried MBAs just brief preview of showing a floating screen of highlights and then a slam dunk and it was like a video game character very basic stuff New York Times and Wayfair had apps but you can get those things on phones and then yeah this this is the shooting gun game that was made by wetter workshop which was cool but more like a more advanced version of what microsoft hololens has been showing for years and you bring that up I mean what how does hololens compare hololens obviously been out for years now how does this experience compared to magically but i think it's i think magic leap is definitely better but hololens has distinct advantages you can wear it with glasses it's all self-contained in the headset and that's a two year old device so you know I'm sure Microsoft is working they said they're working on a next version of that too and there are many more players in the landscape all right so I mean bottom line what will be your final thoughts on what magic leap one magic leap one probably a really good step for a developer who has the money to explore this but you have to realize that there gonna be other players in this space that are probably gonna come out of the woodwork sooner or later that are also gonna offer things so I think magic leap is very intriguing but they have their work cut out for them all right there you go for more on these stories chicken sounds CNET I'm Roger Cheng I'm Jody salzman I'm Scott Steiner sitting all right thanks everybody for joining us for the recording of the audio podcast and as we watch the chat flood with fantastic questions for Scott I'm gonna try to start organizing these but anything that pops in your head about any of the topics ie magic leave one feel free to filter them through yeah we'll relay them to Scott and he'll he'll answer in briones divisibility bring them all what was like you mentioned at the some point in your view mentioned how they give you this like moment where there was like a giant dinosaur made out of flowers yes what that was really like okay you're seeing it yeah thank you that was so that actually was probably the best demo and it was outside of the demo room it was a closed office right it was it's like after the demo Connie and I got demos of some things Connie's energy pad seen it Connie's our boss so yeah really nice she made a really smart comment about something what happened so then they said to me Oh Scott um come with us we actually want to show you something Roni wants to show you something and so I was like what's this it's like I walk down the hallways like immersive theater I walk down the hall and then like I'm back at his office which was a shame we couldn't shoot some of that stuff because their building is beautiful um it's it's so cool and it said a lot of the expectations his office is a collapse office glass-walled in the middle of things lots of toys on the shelves and so we've been talking there for about an hour before and he brought us back there and he said here put on the magic leave I just want you to look out the window and apparently they had this idea day before and it was smart so I looked out the window of his office and they're floating in the hallway was this dinosaurs like this neon you know look like a toy building block kind of sculpture a dinosaur yeah but it was smart because what they were really trying to demonstrate was that because of that limited field of view and the same thing with hololens is they because what they're saying is that you can't see stuff in the peripheral but technically if you're looking through that window at your Disney ghosts you know they could go all the way further back so like you know 30 feet away much like the Mel Channing thing in Times Square so recently floating things in the sky could look bigger than something up close yeah I imagine things that are further away are actually more effective right the illusions are the better they can be if they can be placed well and right overlap with things so that's what he was showing was that if you put something further away in a fixed fixed spot mm-hmm sure it looked like a big thing and then he actually not just that he then went out in the hallway there was that in a space station and then they wanted to show how bright the display was he walked behind it and was waving and then they said did you Sam Miller I believe was saying did you see Roni now I could if I really tried I could see him there but if I wasn't looking for him so it it obscured him pretty well the light in the hallway was like a little more dim so it's hard to say what that would be like in bright light but I think what it showed was that I think if you're looking through like looking at us at a space at a glass box in an area where you want to project AR could create a cool illusion like a hologram right um but in the real world of lots of chaotic things right it's better for like not very many people live in glass rooms no yeah I think through a tank into a hallway it's you know maybe for a performance or a theme park er right I made me think of that actually just totally random reference I just saw a theater piece in New York which is great symphonie fantastique basil twist you should that's available call I should go see that about ticket to that last you did you just get paid like no turn doors before me a ticket to that that was just I saw 20 years ago though exactly I love when it's like just something I did on my own that I can then support in Ardis and say but no I the reason it's cool is that that puppet show is in a thousand gallon aquarium mm-hmm and it's performed to live music but it looks like you're looking into another world right and that's kind of what I think magically would be best used for so let me I can look into a window let me ask about the because I'm looking at the the footage of you wearing this thing and one of the pet peeves for VR stuff for me is it gets annoying to have all that gear in your head and wearing these dope backpacks what was it like wearing all that gear on you because there's it's not just the headset there's there's an attachment your pop yeah yeah it's weird it's weird the headset is surprisingly comfortable I think Connie and I both thought that we were like the way it rides high up on the back here it is surprising because it doesn't look comfortable though it looks weird and it angles down so it's like you're it's like this with my glasses it's like I'm doing right and I think that maybe you could help with light I don't know but outside light coming in but it felt fine it was well well weighted and and comfortable but you had to specifically set it up just right with the right nose pieces and I they were setting up the right fit oh wow and again doesn't work with glasses and the clip-on pack the the big cord once in a while dangled in front of me and they were sure to dangle it behind me so I was a bit of tether thing okay back that weird clip-on pack if you see it it's it's like a like a snack pack clip it's like a almost like a it's not just a discman but it's like a u-shaped clip so you put it in your pocket and the rest is meant to sit outside and invents heat so you're as opposed to like cover it because who knows well yeah yeah and that was that was odd it was like a fanny pack and there was a shoulder strap alternative that you could do uh it's not there it is yeah you can see it I mean it's not that much my god it does look like a Walkman yeah yeah it's a Walkman chip clip look a really small disc man um compared to the world of VR for PCs it's not bad there are there are things in VR called was a nukes and Intel makes achill little little self-contained pcs oh yeah yeah yeah better that you could power VR off of and I kind of feel like there are some mobile VR headsets that LG have one where you plug it into your phone yes yes yeah that happened for one generation phones that just failed completely yes and there's a new standard in VR for like one USB C connection to everything mm-hmm I think plug-in displays and into devices make sense I mean I feel like more companies are gonna start doing that I feel like that's why it like Apple hasn't really gone in this because I think everyone's kind of waiting for that point where seems Teddy would do then you know tech miniaturize is where you can get it all into the headset I think that's all that's what everyone's waiting for right like I guess so but everything else seems just too clunky to me I think although if it was like one simple cable it wouldn't be terrible because it would be kind of like the equivalent of headphones like its yeah yeah basically it's not the cable it's the the clunky pack that you gotta wear around to that kind of it's not it's not bad I so I saw some comments too about like whether this is really just like the prototype of like the smartphone before the iPhone or whatever you know that I think that's definitely true I think we're probably gonna look at the prototype of what this all is and it probably is mapping out the hardware relationship of like what people will finesse later you know some device you have that's always on you that's gonna power stuff some thing that's hopefully not annoying alright and but it's again I think it's better the hard thing to say is well it didn't Wow me I think it's better than any other air headset but of course name another good AR headset no not really any it's it's a very small list and a very problematic list so yeah alright Brian do we have any questions uh yeah let's go ahead and start fueling things from the chat here first and foremost I want to say welcome to Peter Pan's playground a new listener from the Philippines shout out especially considering my random open one liner today was from the movie hook Joel GJ wants Super Smash Brothers news sorry man you gotta wake up wait till I am and Joel GJ also wants to know more how the field of view was you got to touch on that already and while you're at it I think syringe I wanted to know how the fit was so how was it expand more you're talking about how it fits kind of high on the head which I agree it looks weird oh by the way I'm uncomfortable with you not wearing glasses so don't do any more videos to put it back on I'm gonna battle you without beer and I'm like David Lynch in transformations exactly that's all so yeah kids I am wearing the same shirt that was in the magically video on purpose so I just want to say that yeah gosh my question for you I think the first thing I asked you is how's the field of view because that's like so crucial - yeah Scott will you go ahead and compare contrast field of view and comfort and fit how it fits specifically like on the bridge of the nose yeah those are some of the specific questions coming through compared to you know hololens - HTC vive - playstation to any of the others here we go to the best of my ability this is so tough um I wish when I tried eight vive pro back at CES I got to swap back in fortune of vibe pro and of regular vibe yeah and I kept doing that to be like do I really see the difference and I didn't really see much I wish I had a hololens in my pocket that I could have like gone back and forth with a magical I live in a really big pocket yeah just saying I already had that yeah this thing in there bulky so um know what it is versus hololens if you care about that I'd say it's close enough that you wouldn't notice it just reminded me I just saw holland's a few weeks ago it it's very similar to that versus VR it's a very different experience for two reasons one it is definitely a smaller field of view so again the best equivalent I could give is like if I was holding something this size right here that's kind of what I was looking at and yeah so kind of like that so it was like enough to kind of see yeah here's my little magic world but also to realize like oh wait where to go it's not here because I can see the rest of my room mom so it's smaller because the field of view I think that it's like a 40 by 30 by they may be the degrees and and in VR it's like a hundred degree or you know in that zone field of view so VR is definitely bigger but the second thing is that it's also that you can see the whole world we now AR yeah so now you know your peripheral vision is amazing and does all sorts of interesting things and like I'm aware of all that and how does that relate to virtual things that's strange VR your scuba masking yourself and that's actually like a good way to deal with the illusion because since you already kind of thinking with the feel that your parents scuba mask you kind of forgive it and it's like magic binoculars and be like so there's that too so that's the answer there for fit again it felt it felt I don't remember having it on my face which is a nice thing it rode high above the band came like all the way up here it was a stretchable band so like the back segments kind of extended to kind of know like segments so it kind of like I think and maybe had elastic in there but it was like a just other way the car segments your hard segments that kind of like pulled apart gently so you could like pull and then have it snap back to kind of well is that comfortable I feel like that that's gonna pressure head after a while I was okay it felt fine and it's padded as you can see there so it was like actually hard to see what the bat sorry the back was padded okay um the front part they were doing a lot of nosepiece adjustments that I didn't see they asked my prescription beforehand before the trip and Hani's Connie they gave prescription lenses to she couldn't wear glasses mine they said sorry we don't have prescription lenses for your - 8.5 8.7 yeah so I'm it's good I'm like the breaker I'm like fear me when I come to these demos this curve Scott I broke the curve so I got I luckily had just gotten a before this trip had gone temporary contact lenses so tried to do for Google glass back in 2013 I was like good that's not spacious yes exactly memories if that's the last I made to do this was Google glass but yeah it was it's uncomfortable I don't like not wearing glasses and and also like changed my vision a little bit and I was trying to say that in the piece so that it's like the world seems bigger when I don't wear glasses everything is a little shrunken a little cooked bodily with these so and also to have the same type of focus like yeah yeah a weird amazing microscope the reason I'm saying that is because I like to come in with like all my normal vision and it sucks to analyze something we're all ready my vision is like a little different but I got I wore the contacts for for a whole day before going in so it wasn't like I just swapped them in there okay but yeah how did it feel yeah it felt um but but the field the headset was good and the visuals seemed seemed better again better than hololens was it was the feel better than hall ones as well cuz Hollins is it feels a little bulky in your head yeah I think it feels better than hololens um hololens feels like it makes it on your head like on a technicality yeah it's kind of like just yeah precarious moment just well I feel like I could wear but that work with my glasses which was nice but I feel like I would try hololens for like 10 minutes and be done you could see magically being worn for like I honestly could wear it maybe for like half an hour or so like I feel like it wouldn't be annoying to do that they claim it has about three hour battery life and roughly like an attendance which level battery life we'll see how that actually can imagine when one who seems for more than an hour I mean I can't either yeah is I think it would tie I did fine after a while that my eyes were sounds weird my eyes were burning a bit now breaking your door certified I know no I don't know that just from looking it a lot and wearing contacts I don't think there's so many variables um I dunno looking at VR a lot sometimes I'll have that if I'm wearing yeah like an hour demo I don't know if it's the attention I don't know if it's having displays near you all just your eyes having to use them so yeah it's like yeah I think it's just fatigue yeah yeah so it wasn't like a literal my eyes are on fire Bernie but it was like this feeling of like probably like staring at a monitor for a while right yeah you know like this feeling well staring at monitor like that's an inch away from me right yeah yeah it's a weird relationship you have to the glowing stuff now so hope that says something as far as headset I'm gonna say one other small thing I know one asked me this but I'll bring it up it's not the first time I've seen light field tech either so there are things that reminded me most of and and the two things most were like from a company hold avec on mm-hmm ah on I looked at this thing called the glyph which went on sale a while ago which was his retinal projection headset it was really just for watching movies but it apparently shot you know the the beams into your eyes that sounds not comfortable yes yeah a little dlp projector almost like it was like that projected into your eyeball yeah yeah so I will say sure I remember when I first saw that everything had like a gleaming really vivid look like I remember looking like an aquatic scene and going like oh it just looks really very nice and vivid and bright I wasn't as aware of the pixels no when you walked away from that demo like was the like the fish still like burned in your eyes yeah yeah but um magically if I would say they're right that the gleaming less pixel aware feeling using it was definitely the case oh nice Brian got the footage and there we go the the gleaming feel of magic leaps display was oh my god I forgot it geez Wow oh nice hair Scott this is awesome um felt like that I also got to see something else magically pacy you creepy yeah I also got see something else avocados me last year at their headquarters which I only wrote about very briefly but I should probably rewrite as a story on they had a prototype light field headset a few couplets got to write about it verge wire to think some people and when I looked at that it actually gave me a heads up preparation for magically because in a similar way it had something that was kind of glowing and projected except they showed multiple depths like I could focus on something farther away and closer magic leap says that you can do that but I didn't actually see any examples of that in the demos right we got to get some more question yeah sorry about that long digression it happens it happens so people are talking about you know if and when the day comes we can fit its technology into standard eyeglasses or furthermore contact lenses APEC says it's odd that they had to give you prescriptions for the lenses to allow you to see through it they do they do this for all the developers and then are they going to do it consumers when the day comes super good question and I have no freaking idea and I would doubt it come on that's well I said they need their own like health care division for I care well no oculis doc you let's go that 200 ollar headset has prescription lenses that they do with a provider you got to pay extra for it yeah you pay extra but it's not like you don't need a healthcare division you just give the prescription and then they just provide them and so it doesn't need any like accredited you know accreditation or anything so in that sense it was much like that except akio's go you can wear with glasses it's just an alternative to to doing that it's a I think it's a big problem I was not clear since I didn't buy one yet well how you get the lenses and maybe that's why right now ocula magically is only being delivered via this White Glove service so it's like this special concierge delivery I think because they from what I understand is to make sure the fits right maybe it's to make sure there are lenses make sure I can fit on your face properly does that mean if you buy one of these things and they throw customized eyes well we customize a fiddle before you how does it only means it's good for like that one person well that's yeah so that's the other thing is that what happens if someone else wants to try the hell happens then so that all remains undetermined and is a huge problem not just for using this in the home but also using this in any installation so I was thinking oh this would be cool in a theme park but how if it doesn't work with glasses right now this is something that Roni a bovitz and that team definitely said that they are working actively towards working without glasses and with a wider field of view I don't think they're thrilled at all with that part of the proposition that they've been making with the factory that they have on site which is which is making the let that photonic chip which is that lens element they said is the custom part of the they're also working to they were saying they're working to and I've saw some of the facilities but you didn't get to hang around there to prototype and work on building new versions so that supposedly there's many faster turnaround between iterations to try to get out a next version faster than would normally be possible they do seem intent on every positioning of this pitch and I caught a push because like how long am I really there at the factory right what am I you know I'm not a factory expert but will they get to that next version it definitely they hinted about magically two and three literally rhodium if it's literally showed me a cloth covered thing on a table which I think was also done for Branca shiny half a year ago saying we have magically to a magic leap three under here we're only showing them to investors let's see so powerfully but I mean like what it what a tease and like that was the part it was great to talk to them and I thought really a lot of like very interesting thoughts that part was like I was kind of like come on like what's going on here right but um I think they're very intent on trying to get to the next level I think this is very much a prototype so that's that's a very good question and I don't know and yet it's a huge problem it's probably why it's just one more thing that is not great about wearing headsets in a world where it's already hard to get people to where we are yeah yeah totally hey Roger you got a cut out don't you uh no we can keep going it's fine okay I wanted to ask is that was gonna at least ask Scott to stick around because yeah there are so many good questions let's try to slam through I'm here for as long as we need to oh yeah tomorrow all right Sam Scott Stein okay life improvement would this be a better experience if there was a full face helmet with a wider field of view uh and yeah ooh good to hear from you haven't heard from you in a while how good is the brightness did you see anything that has text on it was the clarity they know good question very good question yes so I did see text I saw some web browser shopping stuff Wayfarer who makes a furniture shopping they had an AR app actually talked to one of the executives on the phone but not much to say the yeah so it looked like a wet and also the NBA app sort of had like some interface that showed that scores and stats and sworn stat yeah it looked good it looked good look I didn't think about it which was the greatest thing like basically like that's my sign yeah um that however I keep comparing against phone AR and I think well so much that you can already do now especially with like furniture apps so I think it's really tough to say but it accomplished that it accomplished it brightness wise it did look nice and bright and vivid and I think the roni demo with the dinosaur in the hallway was the best demo of that everything every room I was in I wouldn't say the rooms were dim but I would say they were like not but bright I know that their sensitivity I think there was even something that they had said earlier in the year about not being able to use this outdoors right which is a common thing my experience with hololens outdoors a couple of weeks ago was a great example of the limitations of this stuff and I think magically people be in a similar boat yeah I think this is definitely meant for indoor use and it's meant for those instances so I feel like if you work outside you'd be mugged almost instantly just because like you look that ridiculous like they are ass but maybe the heads-up display where it looks like the illuminator or something would like to turn so you could fight off the assailant oh that's true you could stand any two naked cowboy perfect naked cowboy sweating element be an eyewear guy yeah super tall statue of liberty and it was strange I'm an a terrible Optimus Prime yeah we have a full face I do the initial question oh yeah yeah wider field of view would super help I would love but would more comfortable or less comfortable I feel like how much of a how many thing would you get um I think they know it needs to be wider field of view it's clearly they're up against limitations that they're trying to get to and maybe it is about size of the hardware you know and power who knows what or maybe it's about projecting more stuff on your eyeball right you know I don't know I don't know I mean our eyes work in weird ways VR companies it's it's always impressive to me when I started hearing like the further details and I tracking even things like fovea rendering this crazy thing like you know emphasizing that the center of your eye can see in higher detail right the fovea and the rest of it can't see in that much detail so like if you have the reason I bring that up is if you have a whole field of augmented stuff right technically the stuff that's over in the corner you're not gonna see in the same level of detail so yeah so why does it have to yeah if you don't even like a live rendered perfectly yeah I don't know well that's where the eye tracking comes in oh yeah gaze tracking on this headset so but that's not again they didn't show examples of like what back so surprisingly that stuff was not gone into detail maybe it's not fully ready to show what it can do I don't know but I thought that would be showing off a bit more um I think wider field of view controller my Mansion controller like because I think controls are a huge part of this with their hands like hololens right they did make a controller which is like what the ones you would get on mobile VR headsets but more advanced it's actually more like the the desktop VR like the way that it can its called six degree of freedom tracking so a camera positioning allows it to put it perfectly in space which is important so like if you have a virtual Lego table it means it will track and map right if you have a mobile VR headset like oculus gear VR oculus go gear VR daydream those are like a Wii Remote yeah yeah motion controls but the difference is if you notice it doesn't have perfect tracking so what that means is that the difference there is like if you had a virtual world and you did this it wouldn't like perfectly map hmm so just kind of gets how does it track the controllers their camera like built-in the eyewear yeah cameras built into that were outward facing outward face okay so yeah a whole array of them and the controller also it's kind of like I think a bit like Microsoft's VR controllers for their headset has inside out tracking it's called so it's a combination of like it knows where the controller is in space but also can continue to map it a little bit when I find your back with its sensors so but I want two controllers not one right and the trigger basic stuff is fine but didn't really have great vibration feedback it didn't make me really feel like I was grabbing things so it was it was better than nothing and felt fine but I feel like it was kind of a little more basic than I would want okay I'll be in the chat asks my doctor suggested to me to keep any visual devices about 20 centimeters away from my eyes would this be safe for me ooh really good question that's got to be less than 20 centimeters just eyeballing that yeah no pun intended particular way way particularly for for every person or was this only for him for them this is a specific then they they have either an eye sensitivity or something their doctor is recommending yeah I don't I wouldn't do it yeah when try it because also I don't even really know what this display tech is all about it's it's still a bit of a mystery zone I'd say the way better than the laser shooting in your eyes is yeah it's not lasers but it might be like fiber-optic projection or who knows what like it's basically you know they present it like as a bunch of MS a little more mystical secret sauce like they they tried to explain scientifically how it mixes analog and digital and replicates the light field that are I being dry Malkovich like so like like Ghostbusters jargon yeah it felt like a Charlie Kaufman film like you're like what and then you bring out the neutrino wand and then the proton accelerator there were a lot of mysterious and leaves a nuclear accelerator strapped to your back there are mysterious images of eyeballs then I shrunk down and entered the magic facility no it doesn't want um realm with Ant Man yeah exactly so I didn't the bottom line is unlike saying OLED I don't even really know what we can say yet about this display tech and what it does so it is the very definition of prototype II so I would die I would yeah APEC asks what about sound did you have speakers are there speakers are there headphones a sound part of it as a package yeah no and would it be better if it was no that's a great question one of the things I did a really good job on I think was sound although I think you'd be able to hear it around you like it had a lot of it wasn't contained in just you what it used were built-in speakers that projected like spatial sound very similar to what oculus go does in its headset so it's nice to not wear headphones I think that the audio did Sam sound very loud and clear to anyone else in the room yeah so it's not like a personal thing like new everyone can actually know your experience they can't see it but they can they can hear it and you you can plug in headphones as well okay now I was lucky because recently I also got to try I'm trying to catch up on a lot of this tech to compare I got to try the Bose AR oh yeah yeah yeah the glasses yeah yeah I just tried them out recently downtown and I'm really glad I did because they sound great and I know they should sound great yeah they're both exactly the shara I think saw them at South by Southwest yep it sound great and they were demonstrating that they had very little sound leak like they just sounded like the leak from a you know a slightly noisier pair of headphones so they're all onto something about speaker about headphone 'less stuff but I don't think magic leap is acing it with the with the with the finesse of that technology like I would like to see boat basically but you know bosz which is what they're working on it so everybody called AR you know but i think that i want to see the next generations of what that audio can did you want to see magic leap work with those sure um but I feel like the Bose is gonna have other yeah yeah yeah it's the great Wacky Races of they are I'm calling I mean weird idea of having both paying bows against magically if those are like two companies are like couldn't further be a part right like it's baffling and crazy but to get into one note on that and I was kind of tweeting about this before and I'm reading about AR there was a is an air researcher Helen Papa John us who had written a book about about AR and all of the different facets of AR and I started thinking about it and thinking this is a very large landscape and I think it's a lot larger than VR and I think it's a lot weirder and it's a lot more tangled in the sense that I'm not sure it's all about headsets and I'm right I mean heck Tim Cook and and and I mean Google already feeling that way you know there's there's phones in AR so yeah but not just that but there's um haptics there's audio like Bose a lot of audio based hero stuff and I would even count like smartwatches assistive tech maybe Alexa like what does it mean to enhance your world and give feedback the point is like there's a whole interconnected universe of ambient tech I guess they call it like ambient technology the reason I'm saying that is like AR is trying to tap in a part of that but I don't think there's a lot of pieces to this puzzle and I'm not sure it's all just gonna be about nailing a headset so I feel like I'm less convinced that we've hit the right forum for AR versus I think VR will be about a headset because it's kind of the whole idea is to shutter you even give ya another world that's your deeper thought for this Q&A but that's Scott Stein it's important but I think it's important is I think I got the ceiling of saying like oh really are we really gonna nail the super AR glasses or will it be something else we'll be smiling okay we are really needing to wind down to let's slam through to see more of the more in question is this heads-up display going to be kind of like for everyday use web browsing advertisements Google searches or is it really still more catered towards the developer side of things and that's from storm King oh I love storm King Art Center so if that's related to that awesome the the heads-up stuff yes it's really for developers they kept saying over and over again we want to see what developers can do why see what developers can do I think and this goes back to the so what I just said was super important because you need the rest of the world to be aware and connected in some way for things to pop up and work I mean sure AR can recognize objects and do that but it's really helpful when objects know that they need to be recognized or displays are ready for that or we're talking about a whole interconnected world that needs to be ready to dovetail you know what storefront is gonna work with AR where you get your magical AR person how is it going to overlap with people exiting the gap and like you know the world needs to be ready for it and so that that is a big other part of this since you can see the real world where the heck is that gonna land although I do think that no one's really that I'm most likely gonna sort of draft off of what Apple and Google are doing right that's like Apple may are available on their iPhones is what's gonna have people thinking about how to implement this stuff because I think I'm right it's kind of weird like how they're gonna execute whatever AR ads or whatever special effects coming out of a Gap store front that's I think that the developer is working on an apple solution will likely be the ones that like crack that codes magically but still fairly niche right yeah and magic leap has a lot of partners that they're working with and a lot of interested entities and entertainment so they are very interesting I feel like they have many more shoes possibly that are dropping or that they want to have drop so but but yeah I think that they're all kind of looking to each other I think these solutions have not been solved for yet and there's definitely no killer app or anything there's no killer app and right now unlike VR it's all got to be somewhere so like every our demo is kind of in this like you know empty living room the special the magic a our living room which like you probably don't have and is full your own mind is full of crap so like the real world it has to live in a real world and what real world is that it goes back to that like are we gonna have a are safe spaces and like how are people going to deal with each other's AR I remember like Jaron Lanier was talking about this too and we we had him on the talk about like the VR and AR in the future it's like they're gonna be like a are parks like there's dog parks right this is in a RC me and they're all added and my airtight [Laughter] is that a dream kind of like that Jetsons type utopia where everyone's just got this little unit almost like a G or T like Star Trek the visor visor every piece of information they need like we see a little bit from the last Google i/o how the maps are starting to incorporate directions and advertisements and pop up they are well I mean that's what Google ones is right like basically the idea of putting google lens into glasses that are nice and thin yeah that's sort of the dream for AR and I love that Google Maps idea like levers talking you know the arrow point yeah I mean them and the magic Fox okay they're trying to they're actively solving for some of them which is incredibly useful in New York when you get out of the subway and you're just like turning around which ways uptown downtown is the Fox yeah the Fox will tell you exactly who strangely serene AIPAC had a really fascinating idea about maybe partnering up with lyft or uber and starting to make HUD display windshields yeah maybe starting it out at the the dry car service type level and then working in a its way into consumer because that would be awesome I would love it if I didn't have to look at a map Oh find where the heck you're cool or dangerous I feel like more heads-up displays for drivers as I am not necessarily the best solution I mean I finally ideally they'd replace traditional street signs but I mean that's nowhere near that but wouldn't that be kind of cool like I mean how well I think regular street signs like the one percent gets to get where they're going and everybody else's oh yeah there's no there's no levels Monica move cost-effectiveness to this but I would love a world where I didn't have to look over here to get my directions I keep my line my line of sight on the road so wasn't handling me wanna signs but it would just be like in your field of vision like directions would pop up exactly yeah 101 of the coolest things I don't even know if I got to mention it that much in my hands on but I thought this is an interesting thing that magically did that I had not seen before is they have a their OS lumen OS allows multiple things to be open at once hmm and I mentioned that a little bit that so technically you could like have one screen or browser open over here and then another like MBA thing over here that oh my gosh yeah I know because if our attention span wasn't sure enough like well it was kind of cool you che in a few yeah that's true but in the future we're like you have some ability to tap into this you could place things around a space to be available for you when you need them or create multiple monitors I'm laughing is like you know what's a need but I think the need is that as opposed to VR right now is very silo it off so you like one thing and then you stop the one yeah yeah and I do like the fact that at least na are you could potentially just be working with several things in the same way you'd work with multiple monitors but maybe in a more tactile way multiple tabs and I'm proud tabs so there's something interesting there that you know if I want to like try this cool immersive game but also keep an eye on messages or I'm also doing I mean a plane go back to fortnight and then you go to messages it's like the movie her was just saying I'm letting Heron span Roger remember that scene it I saw my favorite scenes in in her where he's like just singing the living room doing this with his fingers making the little thing run through the forest and he's like sitting on the sofa like in that little weird world a little sad creature that's what I'll be like with that and like a Twitter feed yeah Forest Twitter well yeah you've had that slack up the message you that's your new status away message before we wrap things up I just had to bring up this comment from life improvements they mentioned maybe having a drone that would like follow you around and give your HUD a mini-map with blips from moving things in it like people and all I can picture is the knob Boyd is at the Navi from Legend of Zelda man listen oh yeah so like the wait who's saying about the drone following your life improvements is imagining like a drone as part of your HUD that would follow you around and then update the mini-map in real-time oh yeah I could see like I do it is totally like Navi Oh like giving you a top-down view in real-time what's that little turtle in the Super Mario game that gave you the camera view was it like Oh what lack it - like it - it's a lucky - I see like he's got flies in class yeah oh yeah yeah yeah that's what it is camera cloud I'm a camera cloud yeah sure I want one of those look at that the magic on lack of - yeah sure I mean yet that did Fifth Element have a little floating drone there is like a fantasy about you buddy have like a little throne didn't the character have is like some sort of floating recording thing yes live streaming all the time with your little floating drone I mean I'm close to that with selfie sticks yeah well basically Chrissy yes like I think a year ago where a guy having basically a drone that came off his wrist like you threw it off and it would it would basically know to orient itself back towards you for like a flying selfie he's like the original youtuber in that scene for info worse to use Tasker I ever heard of you saw it no yeah I thought it was dumb that was like what it did one thing yeah and how it was like 500 bucks yeah I want your phone fly you up and taking selfies technology coming out next year just put some technology in the phone so that it knows when it's falling and you look at Fry's elfin lover and like not break I'll pay for that then it grows legs and just flies away yes doesn't want you better if you drop it three times and it pisses it off it just gets up it just crawls away yeah Oh God all Rick and Morty you don't deserve me right what are you screw you I'm out of here what is my business conversation you serve butter yeah this is getting really weird yeah okay okay so closing thoughts from apex oh it's magically born actually worth it for the developer or just an end user Matthew dacher will there ever be a day however far in the future that a our will be ready for the primetime and what will we do with it and Timothy do how far are we from Minority Report question one for the developer if you've got the money this is priced at developer dollars this is like yeah if you have a research lab that is working on immersive tech yes it is worth it because how many other headsets are there that are we getting get your you know get the magic leap one play around with it and you need to have your thoughts so for the average person no heck no and it's not even made for that and I don't even think you'll be able to get it so don't worry you know it's like not even it's not like a VR kind of but you should straddle to write this story that's Scott you can read the story and know about the future is this excited description when he when will we get to that future um I think we're getting there in small steps again through all sorts of things I mean I get a little buzzes notifying me about the world or trying to you know air pods are slowly drifting there and Bo's is trying to get there and phones are doing it and maybe VR is even even the world's obsession with immersive I mean Joan writes a lot about it everyone some about like immersive entertainment I think we're all kind of getting there in different ways so we'll get there but I don't know what the finishing line will will be I'm the feeling of saying it may not be exactly there'll be a lot of pitfalls on the way but in years to come it took a long time for smartphones it's taken decades for VR yeah so I'm actually declaring April 20 1990 hits primetime well my kid turns 40 yeah sure I think I do think twain based on like the the reports and stories and Shara had written the story about like Apple and and a head headset rumors and reports yeah I think 20 to 29 teen 2020 I was mostly kidding oh wow I think 2020 there's gonna be interesting stuff it's good round number 2020 also 5g I think 5 G's gonna be actually a critical element also that has to be your own sight 2020 in order to use any of the products because and Minority Report we're already there we're getting so novel and now yeah spiritually but do we bring up Minority Report way too often now like you we had a whole special podcast yeah Joe Falcone Jeff and I talked about that movie I actually listened to that one you did was good fun we were a little somber we think it's good Thanksgiving listener um so my turn Minority Report well here's the other funny thing this is like chicken and egg man Rd report famously had a bunch of futurists working on that film yep one of which was Jaron Lanier who was on the the show I keep referring him but he's he's awesome a lot of people who were already working and researching this tech envision that future you saw inspired by a science fiction writer but then other people took that science fiction film and used it as inspiration now it's alright eating each other so in that sense it feels kind of inevitable it a lot of that stuff is coming to pass yeah like I think we're a facial recognition tech if nothing else computer vision as it's getting more advanced is fascinating and terrifying and it's like that's like the main driver between not just there's recognition but also things that make a artwork and cars and just a lot of things that make the all-seeing world feel like it's all-seeing so it's minor report is a computer vision movie tape sauce which Scott's died that should be the new podcast there we go enough of that all right okay we got around I so deserve based an hour today remember when we were struggling to get the four hours at the 359 episode probably go for hours with Scott for sure I'm so happy to be talking like I am clear this is such a buildup we were in here recording this is so much behind his we're recording vo on top of vo in post-production for this and we were going insane and I'm sort of like Brian restrained Scott a little bit during the four-minute pockets cuz I told him for minutes we got a yeah I get all the facts out and I know once we get to the Q a Soderbergh loose yeah everyone was like what's going on we do it I'm like I can't talk about it and they're so in the final thing is that we were originally gonna be running this story before and I think we could say it's like the date for this drifted up a few time so right we have been we visited July 18th to see magic leap and finally now the news is up a day before Sam so it's been a long it's been a long process working on this well I I did like I did appreciate the embargo time which is 808 a.m. on yes August August 8th 2018 it's pretty cool yeah like the great conjunction my theory is because Alibaba is a investor it's the Chinese it's a Chinese good luck thing I was thinking a very lucky number in Chinese culture I like um yeah I thought it kind of thought about that all right we gotta jump guys we've got a lot of still to do today just a heads up the show will be on tomorrow but it will be running late obviously we've got Samsung in the morning we have some experts in to talk about all the announcements then I may be here I may not be but after probably in the afternoon three o'clock Eastern 3:30 Eastern somewhere around then after all the Samsung craziness this podcast is available on iTunes tune in stitcher to feedburner google play music google podcast the amazon echo of course cnet.com we'll see you all tomorrow bye bye you you