Gadgetory

hi everyone welcome to reporters roundtable i'm rafe needleman in San Francisco this is our weekly show on a single tech topic each time and you know next week what's happening on March seventh Apple is announcing everybody expects the ipad 3 that's what we think is going to happen now why is this portable but not all that portable form factor working out so well what is it about a machine that is best used on the couch one growing case use case for tablets is the second screen it seems we aren't just satisfied anymore with a watching TV like we used to or just playing a game now we need a second screen to keep us engaged businesses are growing up around the whole idea of the second screen and programmers and are starting programmers by programmers I mean content programmers content developers are starting to take this ancillary auxiliary screen market seriously and that's what we're talking about today that's right it's couch potato version two so to talk about this day I've got two people who are really expert in this category on my left Jeremy Toman who is the chief product officer at digit Jeremy thanks coming in sure and across from me oh they do Luo Tian's who's that I told you I would stumble over that name I'm sorry olay Lucia's who is the chief creative officer over at MX and they make second screen apps thanks for coming in hello thanks for having me all right so listen to me when I was growing up the second screen was a swanson salsbury steak dinner right that was it what is good why do people want need this or they just being shoved this the second screen concept up Alicia I said first of all I think it was a funny phenomenon when we started making second screen apps we realized pretty quickly you know what we could have done this as soon as the laptops came out it's just nobody really thought about it maybe these machines were too awkward but people who are starting to have the laptops open and and you know look at IMDb and and what not at the same time I think that when you talked about the form factor it just had to get maybe that little bit smaller it had to be like a one-handed thing you can throw down like a mag the other etc and I think what happened at the same time is that with the rise of social networks we see that the teenage generation is just basically not collecting content any more like buying dvds or albums or CDs they aggregate in content and they want to do that all the time so the attention split is really where this market started being interesting for investors where people realized while the eyeballs are going away from just the TV screen and we probably want to be on all these screens people have talked a lot about about with younger the younger generation about the always-on generation about people are always plugged in and engage is that what this is about what or me it's partially about that i think you know follow point was just being made is that there was already stats that people were using a second screen while watching TV so numbers were sure that we were seeing even two years ago was in the forty to sixty percent of TV watching happen with the second screen in hands that could have been the laptop but it's really about the the phones and the tablets i think the interesting that's going on is this kind of push-pull for now phenomenon is that marketers here hey you know sixty percent of TV watching happen to the second screen in hand you know people are as you said right young people are doing all this and then what's happened is that's turned around saying oh well they must be using those second screens about television all the time right and they think that's the big thing is a lot of the time that's words of friends or it's angry birds or it's texting with a buddy about plans you're doing tomorrow so there's tons of opportunity don't get me wrong second screen for TV is huge but i think i think it's also being a little bit kind of shoved down people's throats right now you got to do this you got to do this and I think we're maybe a little bit away from figuring out where that happy medium really is going to end up yeah I kind of feel the same i thought about analogies before you know like maybe going back to Friendster and MySpace to think about why did they not work and all of a sudden Facebook and Twitter take everything by storm maybe we're in a three-legged horse race right now we're like we have this thing people have it in their hands what can we do on it but the experience hasn't really been figured out now once the guy I do want to get into I do want to make everybody aware of as we go on here olay your company MX builds actual second screen content apps yes we do and Jeremy your company digit does directories and remotes well we have a TV Guide and remote control application okay so different approaches to making use of the smart big screen whether it's a phone or a tablet while you're plopped on the couch watching you're watching your TV are you guys at odds or complementary or what I mean can only run one app at a time right well I mean I don't think anybody's house i think the ones that are at odds in my opinion are about the what you do while watching TV so if all these company makes an app for a given show let's pretend it's 30 rock that 30 rock Apple might be at odds with a company like getglue who's really trying to use get you to use their kind of generic second screen app at the same time so I think we're going to see some issues there our focus is really all about up until the point where someone's watching TV at that point we you know we think the user might be off again whether it's words with friends or or the aforementioned fictitious 30 rock app we don't really know what people want to do after that point yeah no I think that's where that's where we're similar in terms of we're trying to figure out the second screen but very different we have focused on rich media experiences we're trying to figure the user experience when you're interacting with the content around the show we were building content complimentary to the show that you're watching and the social integration the check in and the talking with friends really was a second thought for us we first of all we tried to find an engagement the right amount of interest towards the first Queen versus the second screen and the interesting thing that we found is that when we do that the second screen turns into the first screen I'll go on that's fascinating so people are spending millions of dollars per episode and and they say well let's have a second screen app and they give some company maybe yours I don't know I'm making this up fifty thousand dollars to build an app and it turns out the people are watching that app more than the hugely expensive show well it happened when we started we build a swing technology that can control the disc a blu-ray disc from the second screen app so all of a sudden and that's funny because you're making some somewhat of a remote concept to all of a sudden that second screen up turns into the remote control for your for your movie and you can go and like oh this is cool who's that and you tab on it and then the disc jumps forward to that scene and all of a sudden you edit your sent you added your own version of the film by interacting with the second screen we're not in the TV space yet so I say way different so we can control the playback of a film digital or on ray so is this is this more important this whole concert that we're talking about is it more important for live appointment viewing or for what you're talking about where you pop a disc in or you or play a stream yes and yes I you know I think the live it so TV kind of falls and for the anyone not familiar with the terms there's an appointment TV which is the stuff you watch live it's it's really five categories it's a reality TV events like the Oscars and sports news and then big episode so like the season finale of entourage would be it would be an appointment show because everybody wants to watch it or the season premiere Game of Thrones things like that that's appointment TV there's be that's the burgeoning social TV side of things where people maybe are checking in or tweeting or doing something while that shows happening and then there's there's catch up TV which is everything else so if you're watching last week's episode of the 30 rock on your DVR you don't really care what someone's tweeting about because you're you know seven days behind so I think the social TV side of things is very very appointment driven that's where the check-ins come into play the tweets and hash tags etc and i think that's that's an area where i don't think anybody in this room knows where it's going to go i have a personal suspicion that would you know we it's very hard to build an entire platform around something that only accounts for about forty percent of TV watching that's that's kind of my beef with social TV yeah but i think the would you call it the the second watching ketchup the ketchup the ketchup TV is exactly where what we experimenting with comes into play because we also have to look at you start something of your DVR or a hulu stream what is it that's interesting is it interesting to review all the tweets that happened while that was like probably not so much but would be interesting to say if you'd say 30 rock well what's that crazy stars and stripes underwear that Kenneth is wearing right now can i buy that somewhere alright that's maybe the sad sounds like the marketers both fans like a total fantasy it's like i'm watching TV and they've got all this product placement and then i want to buy that things like maybe I'm old but if I'm watching a highly produced care lovingly crafted even maybe even commercially crafted but doesn't matter it's crafted it's time coded to the nanosecond I want to watch that show well I mean you're right i mean i think i think this is a divot the biggest policy is that there's the is this energy right now toward distracting people from the shows are watching and don't get me wrong I think there are a lot of times for the complementary apps make a lot of sense I think a lot of the stuff that all these companies doing makes a lot of sense for a lot of the content I think it's got to be like a it can't be the pendulum that's sitting at one end it can't be we expect you to do lots of interactivity I mean we've heard we've heard from marketers since the 90s about being able to watch two by Jennifer Aniston sweater the ways the thing is like yeah we're gonna sell them that sweater and no one's done it nobody seems to really want it but it sounds great in the white paper so I I not a belief on the the by the thing you're watching I do that I do though think the who is that character I've seen them in the movie before what's going on here you know that quote sounds familiar where's that from I think that aspect of you know kind of that real-time quick research thing is where some of these apps could be a lot of fun and I completely agree and I didn't mean that that buying off the television thing is what we're for it's good that you said we need something to disagree on no the digital over later Hollywood has been it's an old fantasy but you know who is going to be who's going to be allowed to do that right if not the content owners themselves what I'm interested in what I'm fascinated about is to find the right mix to find the right amount of stuff that you can do on your tablet for example we're experimenting with a safe for later function so you have content coming across the second screen device and you see something that you're interested in you shouldn't you know pick this up and then I start digging around you should just be able to hit the easy button right right and say okay so later I'll go back and research that or even have an archive right it'd be cool of one of your apps could just at the end of it you can say you know who are all the guest stars what were the great quotes here what was that underwear you know all the things is just there for you right that means what the second screen can come in really valuable you know you during the commercial break pull up the you know the little things that you've been missing etc and I think I think there's tons of opportunity lighting ahead on that side and it sorry no go ahead and in that space I think it's interesting to watch the metadata companies the companies that are now trying to figure out how to tag all that information / timecode so like who is on screen right now write the content recognition isn't so far that it will recognize Brad Pitt's voice and say that's Brad Pitt somebody has to look at it know that he's on screen at that moment in time but that can't be too far away from us um right as far away as the electrical engine in every car maybe I don't know okay anyway go ahead yeah but now you your company does second screen content and you do a bunch of of children's programming if i'm not mistaken while we're moving into that space you know we're just starting an initiative with the national academy of sciences and it looks into how we can leverage the fact that children middle school to high school age children are constantly that literally living on their mobile devices any moment they're not in this classroom so how can we bridge that gap and how can we leverage the excitement about entertainment properties like movies and games into educational learning it just strikes me I mean kids watch the same show over and over and over again and so I could see inside what I'm trying to get into is get at is how different types of programming lend themselves to an ancillary auxiliary app sports obviously sure its real time and if you're a sports fan I mean we already sports fans news viewers are already spent finance news viewers are already getting essentials essentially second screen content with all the crawls all over the screen I mean your barrage with information why not offload that right sure I mean it's a really good point rape is that one of the biggest mistakes made in TVs or especially in new TV stuff is companies that start blanketing TV is this one thing like like all TV watching is the same because it's just so not the same there's every genre is different when I watch a comedy is very different than watch one-hour drama very different than sports and by the way just shouldn't be watching televised news anymore that's just that should only be on your second screen that's just terrible but use Express what my guests do not express those of my repair companies CBS thanks Jeremy sorry that's all right all your news from the internet people but I think that's the thing is what I like about what always companies doing in a bunch of other startups i knows that they're focusing on very specific types of content so I've seen some second screen apps all around sports that are great because we all know that you're watching the game you wanted to find out like what was this person's streak or the hitting average or whatever it is for whatever given support and the biggest mistake and the only advice I'm giving to anyone in the spaces stop thinking about that all TV is equal because it's very much not yeah and I think to the point i think the tweet statistics during the academy awards are fantastic stuff gets a little boring and screened the tweets go up the halftime show is almost no tweeting yeah let's talk about that so there were two there Jeremy you mentioned that there was appointment viewing there's two kinds there there are several kinds but there were two big events recently that had a lot of second screen potential the Academy Awards and I guess the Grammys and then the Super Bowl did you guys experienced any of those with the second screen in Hanoi and what was it like and where were the opportunities there I mean there's it's been there's a lot of kind of blogs they've been indexing this content recently a company how bluefin labs there's a ton of stats on kind of second screen no really more social what are people tweeting during shows things like that interestingly we're at this pace right now we're social activities during TV for appointment TV are on their rise I mean every event it's going up and up and up and there's whether it's tweets per second or overall tweets or a number of users tweeting all the stuffs on the way up so we're really at this interesting kind of growth era for the what do you do while you're watching the show but they've diagnosed already that the stats on the academy awards and the stats and the superbowl were radically different and even the Grammys actually apparently beat the Academy Awards for tweets per second or overall tweets or something like that no one doesn't it only mean that maybe the Academy Awards were a better program well there's also the more engaging and less time on Twitter better content there's also the argument about you know if you're watching you're watching the Academy Awards you're probably watching a lot more video the Grammys really you really need to see Adele or are you really just listening to it right and but was also interesting as the the side analysis of the potential demographics that you know who you know are the are the Academy Award audience tweeting as much as the Grammy audience probably not yep it's interesting i tried the academy award so tried a bunch of the social apps and they were mostly very disappointing experiences and first of all I watched the Academy once with friends mm-hmm and every two seconds the star appears on screen and make such jokes everybody's always laughing and this banter and so the sinking just doesn't work into now couldn't catch it I mean it's just not the fault of the app but the room was just plain too loud when it finally caught it I really didn't know what the f wanted me to do and so I went to the official Oscars app which was which where they knew exactly what was going to happen went on stage which was not set and the only good thing that I found there was that you can actually go between camera backstage Yammer the Oscars did something very very interesting and I see this happening in sports potentially as well where there's the main screen you know you see these control rooms right everybody seen the picture of a other TV director and the giant control i'm surrounded by monitors in the dark you know nuclear bunker with the big screen saying take this shot take that shot and what you are seeing when you watch any show is one shot of dozens and what the second screen apps do like the Oscars opted is let you watch on a second screen a different view right which is a really interesting idea really interesting but also deeply flawed because it had audio they were doing interviews backstage while you're hearing you know Murray on stage making jokes etc but I wanted to talk about some of the other apps because I felt that there was a huge wasted opportunity what I was really looking for was not the tweets what I was really looking for was expanding on the film that was being discussed like okay there's a there's a foreign documentary foreign short something like that you've hardly ever heard about it so the apps wasted that opportunity and giving me that right away real time in really deep exploration I had to go back to the IMDb app and look at look up those films so I think that's where the user experience and the sinking really have to come together agree links them I completely agree I think again it's this focus on you know this is the problem with with TVs industries is a minute I driven all the money in TV is about advertising and so you kind of follow the money to see where the innovations happening and the money's and sad as goes ahead buying and then you've got the social TV phenomenon which is getting advertisers and marketers excited so they're investing in it and so instead of companies thinking about it holistically saying what would be the greatest experience we could make around the Oscars around the Super Bowl around 30 rock around whatever it might be right now too much of the emphasises we know people are tweeting we got that we got to capture and engage and I think I think that's great but it feels like the kind of this whole social media thing all over again with with companies just artificially shoving their way into consumers lives I think instead if the Oscars had you know a great you know Oscar pool thing hey collect with all your friends make you a little voting ballot here's a links to all the all the movies were in it here's the previews behind-the-scenes content you know I'm not a big fan of all this Aang third angle thing I want to work to watch TV I'm I just want to kind of sit back and just watch it I don't mind sending out the tweet or whatever but at the end of the day I think I think it's again people are expecting us to put too much time and energy into what's supposed to be a pretty entertaining it what they call it they call I mean the big difference between computers and television is the what they call the lean forward versus lean back right and with this stuff I mean which way my supposedly don't put a tween we lit a device between mean for ya is lean sideways as like a seder you might have forward together it's a big mistake because it's it's it's this is the things that people are using the term they're saying oh it's it's lean back but it's not what lean back actually means is that you're laying back and you're not doing any your mind is leaning that you're leaning back you're not you're not engaging with something the most you might do it's like American Idol you'll pull your phone and vote right or girl you'll you'll do some little tiny amount amount of interaction lean forward school there's there's a lot of times where I'm happy to engage with content that's fun sometimes but but we've got to decide you know are you letting someone just kick back and relax which is really why most Americans watch for hours of TV a day it's it's not to be engaging in voting and tweeting and challenging and picking it to be escaping from the run-of-the-mill day daily lives it's like I want to sit back and watch these watch whatever whether it's train wreck TV or sitcoms or dramas whatever might be right but that isn't that exactly the reason why we're here because those statistics are drastically changing and the spending power generation is apparently not doing that as much anymore as they used to it we can go into this one I vse a stat that shows that here the stats I know TV ad dollars went up last year TV ad TV watching went up last year overall video consumption went up last year and anytime that I hear the argument it always comes back to well kids these days and they watch the youtubes but there wasn't one what I mean okay statistics that say that ninety-two percent of the 13 to 24 year olds have a mobile device active running while they're watching TV of course is 400 texts a day they're sending something like 60 text an hour including while they're in classrooms right I think we have a whole other issue with that to deal with right well I wanted to go back to the to the point you may um earlier I lost my train of thought he was one of the things you said oh they you are actually painting a somewhat hopeful view vision for future content consumers which is that they're engaged mmhmm yeah that's exactly that was the point you said that the instead of figuring out the greatest experience I think maybe there's also a flaw in the in the production workflow that you know people get together like we have to make this out because these stats just came out and we have to write there really quick and we don't have time to really think about what is a great experience and with the speed that everything is moving where we apparently doubling our knowledge on the planet every 18 months you know how do you figure out if fairly complex behavior pattern that involves the whole body your mind your eyes your ears and potentially the person next to you on the couch right so I think there's there's definitely ways to so speaking of the person next to you and one of the big parts of second screen experience we've got we've touched on it a little bit is the idea of the social TV viewing or social content consumption now of course on computers there we have moved into an era of social games Zynga world warcraft people are accustomed to gaming now with friends the second screen can be a great enabler of social content consumption where we used to sit on the couch maybe with our family now for sitting there in home alone we can actually be engaged with other people is is that a big part of the second screen movement here it's a big part of the movement I think it's a tiny part of reality you know first of all just just on my again getting bones to pick with the term social it's that social gate I mean gaming's been social since the atari 2600 the web's been social since the 90s and TVs been social since the day it was invented with multiple people watching multiple shows sitting on the couch talking about the water cooled the next day all we've done is change the pace at which people can share those experiences I think there will absolutely be more socially engaged stuff where you can chat with friends etc the problem i have is i think if i look at the one biggest trend in TV it's more personalized on demand in location viewing in other words you watch what you want where you want whatever no rules apply anymore so in that world how do I have a social experience with a buddy of mine across the coast watching the same thing because he's going to take a bathroom break right like it it's a funny comment but it's true how do you really create you know if you're one how do you really get everybody who's having a socially conjoined experience to actually pause together no I have problems with that I think that's over they are dead i think i think that's I think that's like you I think a killer I've dream and I think that's exactly where the you know being in control of when you pause your thing and what are you watching a jumping maybe to the next episode etc is I think that's an inherits I kind of spin ice to talk about human nature right but I don't I think that putting people in the driver's seat has worked really really well working with a car literally yeah and now it now it works with their digital video devices so but leaving comments are showing off a cultural reference seeing something that you that Jeff Bridges is saying relating that to another film now I think that's where the social network is powerful we can where you can show off making that reference sending it to a friend and they might be able to relive that moment in the film I think that's a really good point a lot of this social networking is really about what some guy forgot his name called the ego bua or the ego boost it really is you say it's your sharing but really you're showing off it's about your ego showing off in competing you know we are just animals aren't we I want to talk about two things really briefly here one is the concept of the second screen app that automatically synchronizes with what you're watching on the on the big screen whether or not it's live or recorded and that uses the technology that a yahoo acquisition into now made popular where it actually listens to what's happening and syncs up that's called a CR automatic content recognition it's actually called audio fingerprinting or audio watermarking content recognitions the big picture video recognition would fall into a crs how how big a deal is then who's winning who's losing and who are the big players in ACR right now big players I mean so in turn l didn't actually invent the technology they licensed at which wich is interesting there's a big player called an audible magic Gracenote does it I think Roby does it there's before other startups doing it it yeah yes it's a it's a pretty common thing it's fairly commodity I mean I know started building it from scratch in their estimate from from start to finish is measured by weeks now so I don't think it's actually a hard problem I think it's interesting but to me it's a band-aid technology it's something that will get us kind of a from where we are now to the future because one I mean all we're not far away from a highly connected living room at current TV replacement cycles basically everybody in America will have a new TV within seven years the most common TVs being sold today are considered smart TVs which means they have Wi-Fi connectivity built-in and so if your TV and your set-top box are smart they actually know what they're airing and so you can just inquire over Wi-Fi and find out the exact thing and it ties back to the first screen second screen flip that we've experienced with a bluray control which is a fairly esoteric nice right now because you know blu-ray players that are connected with an iPad that's connected but that demo sells itself and and that's exactly where you're going with us the setup box implementations that companies like nds are doing right now where you can actually go over IT back and forth between the TV head end I find it a lot more interesting than audio fingerprinting audio watermarking and I agree it's a band-aid hmm now a couple of interesting comments in the chat room one says from cousin of jab talk about what fantasy football has done to advance this idea talk about social content attached to one of the most of you know engrossing content forms or is sports I'm amazing not more I am stunned by the lack of innovative fantasy second screen apps I think a friend of mine does see I think actually CBS Sports no plug intentional I the Yahoo fantasy just to give both big company and I'm sure ESPN blah blah blah but I was told by a buddy that that the CBS Sports second screen apps for fantasy are great and he said that some of the games he was watching he saw on his iPad that one of his players had scored pre before the screen showed it because of small time delays yeah but I think I think there's a wealth of opportunities i'm truly amazing there's not more startups doing that especially compared to the social TV stuff which is which is a yet-to-be-determined where people want to do fantasy sports has lots of money lots of users and the natural draw for innovation and it's and it's an extension of the experience which is exactly where the mobile device is great once you're done with the game or once there's a break in the game then you engage with your ex and you stay in the moment yeah I find a powerful too I was cousin of John not because of chap I blame the typography on this stupid chat app I have here courier damn you uh also venture but Ventura bum says give me a top chef chef second app I want to know about the guest chef his restaurants etc I guess recipes man what a perfect idea for for them to bookmark a recipe when you see something being made that two fat ladies whatever like chicken wrapped in bacon so I want that recipe boom say hate to say because I don't really love that channel but can you see has had a second screen app that is so powerful in terms of you by what you see right away you know so and that's where the your recipes and you know how they promote the product not so directly but through the experience that you're having with it and it ties directly in today that doesn't surprise me i mean III got the chance to talk to some QVC and HSN people when i was at sling of years ago and they understand consumers and buying so well and they're like the zynga of buying oh I mean the stats they have is unreal on how people by what triggers all that kind of stuff so fan because we started talking about buying and somebody wanted a recipe but yeah meets related because it's all that but the recipe apps makes sense by the way and I also still go back to you know you almost don't even want to have to bookmark you always want the second screen up it shouldn't that you shouldn't necessarily need while you're watching it should just be here's all the stuff about the episode you just watch right and there's yeah here's every episode of every show i watch Top Chef here's every episode every chef just made here's the restaurants there at I actually went looking I was in I was in Chicago few years ago and I went looking for who which Top Chef chefs are in Chicago so there's so much of these bringing together kind of from your TV to your mobile life opportunities that I think it's gonna be a fun few years yeah and I that's exactly right totally great seeing all of these second screen apps need a much stronger standalone experience like you pick it up and you engage with the content even when you're not watching the show how easy would it be to what every chef it's not every show every show has a website yeah but it's n at CN its behavior you take this thing yeah and you just the recipe appears you walk over to your kitchen yeah and you can cook it it's not you know it's that it's almost like it needed to be mobile in the home before this was really needs to be more integrated like the stable they all have a website also have a Facebook page and sooner or later they'll have some kind of mobile experience see the good one but the good ones will make an end to end the good ones won't just be just while you're watching TV they'll take the concept of how this top chef fit into your life if you're a super fan right how does how this american idol right if you're in the maritime not a idol fan but obviously it's very popular i'm sure an idol fan would love all of the recordings of all the artists that have gone on maybe links the original songs right if someone covers some classic 80 song that you get the original video in there too and that's being served up by vivo and you can share it on your Facebook page and you have an easy listening device now to do your own karaoke over it and share that which was all possible because I feels like karaoke the same way I feel about 3d TV yeah not positive no uh speaking of which oh so we don't we don't think this is a again I believe the 3d is is a gimmick the company many people caught industry will think I'm wrong but does this have the same danger of moving into gimmick territory that idea of the second screen ancillary app some of it yes some of the stuff we're seeing so so let me they announced earlier the myspace and friendster era i would say that today second screen is more in the geo cities era as it pertains to where we are with web and social i mean we're nascent and so most of the startups that you even think are common today are probably going to fail so so we're so so early and what's going on with TV and second screen but i think it's unlikely that some of this won't gain momentum if you think about what we just brainstormed as a fantasy football or a Top Chef type of app those don't seem far-fetched whether or not you're going to do all these quirky check-ins get points with a prize you know get some reward for watching show all that kind of stuff seems weird to me but the fact that you watch a show you want some immersive stuff and you're going to go look things up later seems very connect the dots got to be more see it's got to get more seen seamless our devices no know where we are they know what we like you know that at some point they will just know what we're watching and then it's probably an API that you can build experiences on top without really having to start a nap or show and Abner startup and I think that's the confusing fragmentation right now that makes the experiences weird what I like to bookmark the world I'm sure that's out there was gumming up for that yeah I'm sure there is uh all right we've done yeah we've time for a more what what about the the television manufacturers and we were talking about them knowing what they're watching now my TV and knows obviously or could know when I'm watching a broadcast show but there's a time when I'm streaming a home movie or watching something over the internet on my Roku my boxee maybe we'll know that maybe not but what is the role of the TV manufacturer in integrating with other living room devices especially the ones on the couch I mean I've spent the past six months talking to every TV manufacturer on the planet so they don't all know you know some of them our vesting hardcore in building a platform so that their TVs are smart some of them are taking a very connected centric approach where they're kind of opening up the TV to the network and letting things happen a lot of them really haven't quite figured this out there all building their own second screen apps but none of them I mean they didn't have iOS developers two years ago in fact they didn't have you I developers five years ago so these are brand new challenges for the TV industry some of them are navigating very well in my opinion and some of them are are really experimenting which is great I mean Sony Samsung vizio and LG have put out some very very advanced stuff just to see what happens and I think that's great to see it's dreher to ready to say the Japanese can or Korean or US consumer electronics company that effectively loses money on most of the tvs they sell is experimenting in a product category that you know people spend a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks on I think it's great just from the I'm not really savvy in the manufacturing field but just from the experience really what what the second screen does right now is what vh1 did with Papa video and Papa via was on the TV that there was no mobile device to do that and I think that's where the TV manufacturers have a huge opportunity right now to bring some of that metadata back onto the screen so you don't have to look down to find out who's on screen right that could become an overlay or if you have a 20 but not 21 by nine TV you know there's a huge space all of a sudden wait additional content into if you wanted to I'm interested I'm not sure how that's going to work but I would be interested in figuring out or helping to figure out those experience and all you work with 10 companies with yes media producers and live with studios media producers and what's the trend there what's their take on the second screen I think it's all part of them figuring out the future of digital distribution and whether collateral content and the brand extensions need to go from people to experience them properly I mean now that the DVD is kind of you know going away and directors common where's the directors comment you know that's what I what I was thinking through this whole thing is like I want the director's commentary on my iPad while I'm watching the show with you know separate headphones maybe different views yeah initial renderings that's exactly this yet we are that we are experimenting with writing send me your next I want to see that that's cool are we not supposed to make fun of you for that statement right make fun all you want I still want it now I i mean i think but there's only so many times your point is that there's as many opportunities as it shows and consumers going all the way back to this is why 3d is a fad and and connected and second screen isn't a fad there's so much things that people are going to want there is room for some app developer to figure out a simple platform for developed for delivering you the size of commentary there's someone else can make the voting thing someone else can make the recipes thing I you know the one one of the biggest questions in my eyes right now and I have a hard time seeing is will you have to second screen apps or 200 right I think that's a very very tricky thing to figure out because when you go generic you lose out on the Disney I mean all the companies always working with Disney doesn't want a generic experience they want this animated etc experience try to assignment try to sell me more lunch boxes right that's what they're trying to do and the other end of the spectrum as we were talking on the hall you have small come small TV effectively TV startups like the new shows they don't have big budgets they're not going to go invest in these massively immersive things where generic stuff kind of makes some sense but I have a real hard time figuring out what what a consumer is going to be tolerating on their on their iPads you know will they have 10 15 apps that they don't mind hopping back and forth between or will they have to it's hard to figure out maybe when you power up a fire up a show the app comes over the network automatically and there you have it and goes away when you're done if you wanted to but they wouldn't i see that does not need doesn't know that's build it alright good see you guys later that's that's the the future where it's you know in the device good vibes we are out of time thank you ollie lou chins is the chief creative guy over at MX which does second screen apps where can people go to see some of your product MXM XCOM has a good selection of the work that we've done most recently we've collaborated with Disney's if you go to Disney second screen calm you'll see what they've put out with our help and yeah I will do that when I watch those shows with my kid and Jeremy thoman is the chief product / officer / digit that's di jit sorry and they do a really cool program guide app you want to tell us a little bit about that and tell us where to get it sure you can get it in the iOS store Android as well di jit just search for it well you'll find it so the app is designed to be both the TV Guide and remote control the remote control part requires you to either have a Roku or to purchase a beacon from Griffin they're about 50 60 bucks online and it basically is like an ir emitter that sits on your coffee table and can control all the devices in your home and then use our guide to figure out everything from social stuff what are your friends watching we hook up with facebook as well as set up your own favorite shows even have only your favorite channels what's neat is you can you know the average person only watches 12 channels so in our app you can just filter out all the channels you ever watch and just see your own personalized guide and that's that's what we're doing Jeremy olay thanks so much Thanks coming in Steve thanks for producing we'll see you guys next week another episode of reporters roundtable see you then bye Oh