Gadgetory

the cnet stage everybody live here at 2013 CES I'm Brian Cooley I'm Lindsay Turrentine editor-in-chief of cnet reviews you're watching us right now on a device that uses either a keyboard a mouse touchscreen or remote control but imagine a world where all of those become obsolete instead you might interface with your electronics in The Fairly near future by or media by gesture by voice by eye movement even by brain wave that's why we think the next interface is actually you we have three guests who are making that a reality today James Park a CEO of Fitbit known for wearable tech that monitors your calorie is your activity and right next to him in the middle of our panel is Matt Rogers he's founder and vp of engineering at nest we are both owners of said products makers of a connected smart thermostat that figures out your behavior by monitoring over by figures out your home's HVAC behavior by monitoring yours and Michael Buckwald is CEO and co-founder of leap motion which has created technology for operating electronics by just using your hands and I also want to point out we've got Bryant on over here on the little dais right there and he's going to be showing us some other fascinating technologies from musics the muse brainwave sensing from interacts on and also I tribes retina tracking technology so we've got a very interesting array of tech for the next hour first off let's get things started CNET's cara tsuboi we'll get our mental juices flowing on this remarkable trend the way we interact with technology is constantly changing and the next interface is you Google's Project Glass gave us a bird's-eye view of the future of how humans will become one with technology the glasses are outfitted with a camera and voice navigation to truly augment the wearer's reality and when they become available to consumers in 2014 we have to ask will we ever need or want traditional computer screens again that's just one of several products transforming the human body into an interface someday we won't need all those extras like a mouse keyboard and screen to operate technology our bodies and gestures will do that for us the video game industry pounced on this trend several years ago sony playstation Nintendo Wii and Microsoft Xbox all have their own motion sensing devices that allow gamers to play without a wired controller and now you can play games with no controllers and only your eyes thanks to a company called I tried out of the Netherlands a mobile devices camera follows your retina instinctively knowing when to turn the page of a book or pop a balloon making touchscreen technology look passe when leap Motion's leap that can read your fingers motion down to the tiniest wiggle its store shelves later this year while the mouse and keyboard become completely obsolete it's about interacting with your computer in the same intuitive way you would interact with the real world and what about gadgets that are so in tune with our biorhythms devices like Fitbit that can find out more about our bodies in an hour we've discovered in a lifetime or nests smart thermostat that learns your routine and adjust temperature based on your daily needs what are the limits of using the body as an interface with technology and who's going to draw that line is wearable technology merely a passing fad or can these gadgets in their gamification help change our habits and how do you protect a wearer's privacy these gadgets and more in the pipeline are all attempting to change the way we interact with technology and travel through the world but as they become less like crops in a science fiction movie and more of a reality will be forced to answer these important questions so let's ask you guys just just kick this off what are the benefits of connecting your body in your life at the hardware in your home to technology so for health and fitness you know it's all about removing friction in logging your daily activities so the first step in understanding and improving your health is knowing where you are and where you want to get to and when we started Fitbit a lot of the problems with existing devices that that is that it's very tedious to track things where a device you'd have to plug it into your computer you'd have to remember to do a lot of things with you know wearable technology that truly disappears into your lifestyle you know tracking is something that you don't have to think about it's just invisible to lure friend that just assists you on your goals so how about you match so with interface design you want to basically boil it down to its most basic components what's the easiest way to do something so it used to be you know the old technology we had you touch the touchscreen was the easiest way to interact with your phone with you with your device uh but that's necessarily a one-size-fits-all so we did nest we thought well what's the best way you want to interact with the temperature in your home you just want to turn it you want to turn up and turn it down that's the most natural gesture for that so he built an entire product around that gesture Michael the philosophy behind leap is very much letting people reach into their computers like we interact with things in the real world and in the same way that my reaching out and pick up this bottle is a very complex but totally thoughtless action that's totally instant that's the same experience that we want to bring to these unimaginably powerful computers that are literally everywhere we go Michael of all the of all the technologies that we're seeing here specifically out the stage with you guys you're freaking people out the most this is like as if it's my match I mean all this stuff's really impressive but you are describing to me that hand gestures are not just very natural but they're also their high bandwidth in a sense what does that mean when you're dealing with analog human hands yes so it's it's all about letting people bring the complexity basically the fact that when I reach out and pick up this object I am transmitting thousands of data points to my muscles in terms of how far forward I should move how quickly I should move forward when I should grab and if we can let people bring that to a computer and they can sit in front of something like a 3d virtual piece of clay and they can sculpt that piece of clay with their hands and figures suddenly people who have never created anything on a computer ever can create a complex 3d model that's just as good as what someone would create who is a professional 3d modeler and they can do that with no training and in seconds and that that same accessibility that extends to all sorts of applications it's interesting here is that all of these panelists are taking us back to being children aren't you doing the simplest things and getting more out of them in a sense simple works yeah yeah we're the things that we thought about is not just children but elderly want to build a product that works for everybody and basically boil it down to its most basic components yeah I love it actually yeah and if you watch a child like an infant interact with a with a computer or even a TV or anything actually their first instinct is to reach out and grab it so it very much is going back to that most basic instinct I think one of the one of things I think about a lot is voice which is not something that is necessarily integrated into the technologies that you're working on but I am have children and I watch them laborious Lee learn how to write their thoughts down how to learn how to type do you think that there's a future in which that type of spending years learning the mechanics of communication becomes less meaningful so I link languages is part of who we you know humans are and I language is never going to go away but the question is computers keep up so this is a question that people have asked for tens of years I mean speech recognition technology is not new and it's still not great it's it's getting better but still it doesn't feel natural yet you still feel like you're talking to a machine now if language is one of these sort of main touch points that we all know how to do the other one is you know visual it's such an important part of all human senses you know it's called the super sense in many case it's the one that we really like television we really kind of zero in and relate to and get so much richness out of brian Tong has got a visual technology I want to go to him here he's got this is vuzix smart glasses are the m100 smart glasses that are there an augmentation to a smartphone's interface BTW tell us what these are we can kind of see how you're wearing them there yeah so this is a think of it this as a heads-up display that's right right in front of my probably a couple inches and what it does is that it links to an app on your smartphone and enables you to interact with your smartphone through a variety of apps this is again the views expired glass m100 this is going to be different than google goggles though right you saw the demos of how was like a transparent heads-up display well this is transmitting the video information from your phone or whether it be email photos or movies and then showing that in here and I'm going to just take this off really quickly to see if you guys can get a little peek of this to see if you can even get a peek of the screen hold on one second real quick there's a tiny micro display in there that we're looking at there it is right there very hard to see but that's replicating the smartphone display right exactly and we have matt holliday here from musics and we just want to ask mike sorry about that least one actually really quickly you know what do you see the future of this specific technology moving forward we ultimately see this as going to a obviously a binocular technology see-through and we see this as replacing a cell phone one day you don't need to have a cell phone you don't need that screen that's in your pocket all the time you have information access in front of your eye it's going to be a natural ability to have that that information on the go and you can you can have all that technology ready your fingertips all right yeah that's uh it's different than google glasses it looks like it might be similar but it's actually a more understandable leap because we already know we're going to see and it augmented reality is like another another big jump that's almost it's the next step in many ways so I have a question about how the smartphone and mobile technology has made it easier for you guys to work on the innovations that you're working on and you know is it is that a bridge to devices that have a future interface or is that how we're going to do it for a long time so for us it fit then when we think about digital health we want our devices to really disappear into people's lifestyles and to do that we have to make the devices not intrusive small etc but you know that that runs counter to having an interface directly on the device so we think of the smartphone as providing a really rich interface on top of tiny sensors and I think that's that's a very good combination yeah we did a lot of the same thought so Somerset's today have very cumbersome interfaces and they lots of data and lots of buttons but we have this great interface in our hands with our phone so let's put the simplest things things that you need to use every day on unnatural displayed cell phone thermostat and have all the deeper have analytic features how much energy using at a program it on the phone it like let's use the the right user interface for the right job your technology skips that all together it seems like it is it does it render the smaller you know tablet-style device not so meaningful well I think I think there are there probably two steps so immediately a tablet that has leaf inside it could still have the same screen it has but suddenly the interaction area can be bigger not just bigger but also three-dimensional so it's not just about this small 2d interaction surface that is the same size as this small screen I'm interacting with my phone or tablet in this space between me and it which opens up a lot of opportunity for new types of interaction which is exciting but we're also excited about enabling new form factors that wouldn't have been possible like perhaps head-mounted displays where the users interacting with augmented reality in their field of view in their vision without strapping a keyboard or a touchscreen to their arm or something ask you guys about a little bit toward your your longer range plans leap motion as we've most seen it right now is a module that works other devices the nest thermostat see it right there it's a product into itself Fitbit products are also products into themselves they're all discrete what's the integration plan don't all of you want to be out of the hardware business at some point and be licensing your IP I met you're shaking your head no never actually so Thurman on my wall we thought you said so I think so actually so uh that there's a natural progression of technology uh but there's still some points in our lives where how we expect things to work and those kind of shifts take a long time a thurs has it been people's walls for a hundred years yeah and uh in we love being the harder business and we get a lot of value that way we can building this beautiful so that's a work of art I love you know that's what it's whenever one of our key differentiators one of our uh whatever you know key days is rebuilding it's beautiful and easy to use that you want to have on your wall as opposed something that like usual hide are there other uh nest products in the pipeline uh we're always working on new stuff I you know but this team there's there there many things that we could do the impression that you were moving toward something much more of an integration with other product strategy right yes they're both are going to play a big role in the future we really like building hardware as well and we like being able to create markets that didn't exist before and obviously we can move faster than Big OEMs so we're going to continue to build products and create new markets but we also don't think that users should have to carry around a peripheral to interact with every device so the reality is if we want users to use leave technology to control their smartphone or tablet and we don't want them to carry a peripheral around we have to work with OEMs and we have to work to embed the technology so both both are in our future and I think we can deliver great experiences let's see me that the Fitbit almost almost wants to be part of my mobile device isn't it usually on me and couldn't you build that into every phone or Madeira phone and media player because people still don't carry their phone to the gym all the time well I think the notion of interface is tightly linked with the issue of usability wearability as well so if you think about the smartphone there's a lot of times throughout the day that it's not actually on your body you know it might be on your coffee table when you go calling when your seat being really weird you don't sleep with your smartphone your Piana swim and actually yeah your purse etc right people you know women don't have pile ones for so when you think deeply about the problem you'll see that there's actually a subtle but important usability issue and I think you know again the perfect combination is actually combining the smartphone with tiny sensors using a smartphone as its richer interface yeah and using dedicated sensors as you know the collection mechanism so as sensors get smaller and smaller and probably overtime cheaper and cheaper is there a future in which we could have sensors in our clothes or you know in a in it in any any little thing you might have on your body while you're exercising or walking around I think that's you know that's ultimately where things will end up I think you know when you think about embedding things into clothes there's a lot of additional engineering challenges that you have to think about but you know it'll be fashion challenges but i think you know it'll be exciting for everybody to try to figure all that out if you took it seems to me there's a you all deal to some degree with the the issue of signal to noise in the environment because you're all working with an air gap to some degree if i can kind of put it that way with leap motion you know here you are making motions that have to be intercepted across space things can interfere the thermostat can it's got a motion sensor on a few folks haven't seen how this works it detects people move by to get a gauge on motion in the house and the Fitbit perhaps could you know how it has to filter out errant movements that aren't actually physical calorie expenditure how do you deal with signal to noise when you're not hardwired in the traditional you know motherboard fashion that everyone else is so I mean a lot of it is just you know smart algorithms analytics you know with our motion sensor we collected a lot of data and over time basically learned how to build the best algorithm on top of it so all the way is the feature we use to basically turn down your house when you're not home we launched the feature and over the year actually honed it in such that we learned your most likely occupancy patterns based on your motion so in the morning when you leave chances are you're gone either you went to school you went to work went shopping you're gone for a while and that mourning period is actually the best time to turn out the temperature because it's cold so by basically collecting lots of data and you know performing analytics we can figure out kind of the best patterns that sensor Michael how do you filter out someone next to me picking up a can of coke while I'm trying to do my thing on my laptop well it goes back to the core philosophy about interaction so if leaf was about these binary gestures where I make a sign with my hands and then something that's predetermined happens that's kind of what the gesture control TVs are doing right pretty simple right what would people think about gestures that's what they think about and we don't like that as much we think that people don't really want to learn sign language to control their computers so when what we're pushing with leap is the idea of interacting with something that is where there's context there's an object and you're interacting with it in this physical way so we can ignore any noise that isn't related to some context so if someone is sitting here and they're playing a harp in the air with their fingers and you're moving your hand behind me and it's not anywhere near the harp we can ignore you very easily so because the motions that you're that you're reading and the way that you're doing it is so rich it's easier to reject things that don't matter right I mean if I'm doing a simple motion on a gesture TV to turn the volume up and down or something and a the cat jumps down from a bookshelf that could be mistaken it's the same thing right exactly a richer and easier to distinguish absolutely absolutely a gesture TV is looking for is there an up or down movement yes or no we're looking for how are you interacting with this specific contextual situation and it's actually counterintuitive but because we have so much more data and more more accuracy or actually a much more resistant to noise interesting let's go back to brian Tong I think you are going to give us a look into your brain as just terrifies me but let's do this we'll see how much activity we have there I think it's a lot wanna know all right so i'm here with ariel she's from use with the rain sensing headband and tell us a little bit about this headband so this headband has sensors on my forehead and behind the ears and it allows me to interact with content on my smartphone or tablet so this is a nap right here right that you have and when there is brain activity you'll start seeing the peaks from the activity is that correct so what you're seeing here is actually my brainwaves this is what it looks like inside my head I'll blink for you link link link so you see that it's live and it's me I tried that demone it didn't work for apparent reasons so where do you also see the future of this technology moving for you so brain sensing technology has lots of advantages the first one is that you can actually see what's going on in your own head and then do exercises to improve your cognitive functioning and reduce stress so this is the first time we've been able to you on a personal level see inside our own mind and use that information in some way to make our lives better ultimately this is going to be another control interface a way to control your home electronic systems your devices etc that's in the future but right now it's about being able to understand and improve the self and also um you know it is a fashion statement you guys were talking about wearable tech right well that's how i roll like that eyebrow action for all you tech lovers out there not getting any brain waves we're getting some great testimony about fashion I cool it yeah yeah you're making me um here's a you guys have got a party I'm not trying to bite everyone to interact saans party but explain to us how the headband is going to be used to operate the beer keg is a great story we're at a CES VIP party tonight and people are going to be able to pour beer with their mind so they focus on the beer tab it pours a beer when you're done you just clench your teeth or so to make a pedestrian like this stops pouring walk away drink that's why Bernie bar anyway so it works I love that and I was kind of wondering if any of you have ideas about really unique uses you heard from your users you know stories you've heard of wild things that people have done using your products yeah we had a user last summer I think it's in Arizona who sent us an email about this but there was a big forest fire in his region and he didn't know if his house is okay if it burnt down or what was going on inside but he was able to open up his app and see oh that my house is fine it's not too hot inside my house in lay on fire everything's okay yeah he does seem like 134 degrees or something fire nearby yeah it would've been down or something you know something would be different yeah interesting James for us you know we are device allows people to track their sleep activity and you know we had one family where the parents actually use that gave it gave the fitbit's to their kids and use the sleep tracking as a mode of competition so the kids would compete to see who would get to sleep the quickness and who would wake up the fewest number of times right that is I can say as a parent that is genius that's amazing what I was like I gotta go that's really great Michael why do people done with leap motion that made you go never thought of that well I don't want to I don't want to spoil any of our developers activities but but there's there's a there's a there's a ton of things that people have expressed interest in doing and it's it's been really really amazing to see the diversity and I think the thing that the thing that's most exciting and surprising to me is just how every person is passionate about using this for something else I think there is something that people feel they've been missing from their experiences with computers and it's just it's just very different from person to person so some people are saying I'm really excited that I will be able to you for the first time edit video at an audio others are saying I'm really excited that for the first time I am going to be able to interact with all of the complexity of my social networking data in this really intuitive powerful way and then of course there are tons of great gaming things in the work and I'd like you also do explain a little bit early straight for us a little bit about the the resolution of of what you're capturing because we're all used to touch screens where resolution is not great trying to type on a touchscreen frustrates everyone if you're a little bit off it's too stupid to figure it out and we're talking about chorus versus fine gestures how how highly resolved is your ability to know if I can move my finger just as tiniest bit you can hardly see it can you pick that up we we definitely can our accuracy is about a hundredth of a milliliter and I know that that sounds excessive but it's actually not the goal with leap is for you to feel like your arm is an extension of happening on the computer and in order to actually feel that way and to feel like this is a fundamentally better way of controlling and not just a cool gadget it has to be extremely accurate but also very responsive the the the latency is almost as important as the accuracy so yeah I've heard a lot about with tablets a lot of the future innovation will be about latency of the touch response as opposed to even the sensing of the touch response or the pixels in the display I think it's very early on with the iphone that we had to get right it had to be super super fast so it's one of the reasons why when you swipe left to right it goes left right immediately that latency is super critical human brain is very good at picking up that look in a different way knowing that you're doing something synthetic and going ok this is laggy yeah and you see touch screen controller vendors competing on scan rates basically yes so that's one of the things we're feeling when we're using a touchscreen is a lot latency even more than accuracy ok the feedback loop is kind of off there let me ask you guys about getting the word out to customers I know your your various stages in your customer facing life as companies what works or how do you get people to think differently about controlling things when they are very in their minds good at keyboard mouse and touchscreen because they've not known anything else is that what works great how do you give them to sample to think differently about that so for us I mean we're in very broad retail today so you could walk in your local lo store or best buy or apple store and see the product and a lot of time just try it and the best sales of the product is actually using it you know in using in person and uh as we've grown and gotten more product out in the field when people walk into someone's house they see a nest in the wall they ask what is that and that's that's the best sales tools you know seeing the product using an actual your thermostat you got one here it's charged up it has little battery I'm gonna get Lindsey's thoughts on this too but the reason in case you guys haven't seen this one of the reasons I bought the nest thermostat which is to 49 to 49 so you know not a cheap datos thermostats go but of all the things I loved about it could being connected you can operate the thing from your smartphone or cut the device that's great and of course all the intelligence and the great interface they've got in this thing but being able to turn to temperature just like one of those ancient honey will you know button thermostats that cost 19 bucks down at the hardware store that was like that's what I want because I had one of those push-button thermostats for years when you want to go from 60 to 69 degrees it's seven pushes plus the three it doesn't register going back to interface design that's when we made it round is that's the most natural thing you want to do when you control your temperature it's in our brains if you what got you into the nest because those are little mini focus group of what got us into different interface well I reviewed it for seen it so that got me but i loved it i mean i became a convert and people who review technology products are very cynical right I mean and I it was as easy to install as as I mean I did it like on camera and and I just well I like the way it looks I like how easy it is but I also really like the ability to change and other other um thermos does have this functionality but I like that's my house by the way um that's my wall it's ruined that's my hand um I like the ability to program it from afar and I don't do it that often but when I need to do it it's really nice to be able to do it so you know coming home from a ski trip and you're freezing in its winter and you want to turn on the thermostat or also being able to turn it on from bed that's nice we were talking about this earlier and our question was right now nest you can have one or two thermostats in your house to work on different zones right but it seems like there's there should be a future in which there's a much more nuanced to interaction than just when I walk in the front door and you start to see this with with a proximate industry starting to be a bit more location-aware you know it did your car just into the driveway look at kind of the Ford booth and some of the interesting things are doing there is the connected car so starting to think about you know had all these things work together and it is there a possibility of your thermostat learns from your farm it's crazy right you're headed in that direction you're usually headed in that direction at that time of day you're coming home from work turn on the thermostat exactly let's i'm going to ask james question here you guys are Fitbit is arguably the nearest thing to a household word i think in this category of wearable fitness tech i mean this has been such an explosion here you said what the your area has doubled since last CES you'd say yeah this is this is a really big bump this year for the wearable fitness space what is the next thing that you've got to get done to really make it not part of a panel about the cutting edge but mainstream how do you make that tip over you know i think it's a lot about consumer awareness and there's a lot of different ways that we do that so one is you know there's a lot of retailers that actually you know carry products in this category when we started the company in 2007 i don't think there was a major consumer electronics retailer that carried digital sports tracking devices other than you know garments and polar's for the very high end so in the past two years you know retailers like best buy apple target re ids mainstream retailers have you know opened up this category and i think that's really raised awareness of how these devices can help you so I think retailers help the media you know consumer health is always top of mind of everybody and especially with these tools people can take control of their own health which is are you wearing right now I'm wearing the Fitbit flex okay it's the only one I hold that up and show the the lights that it does to indicate what to you their camera can zoom in and get the hold steady right there we see the LEDs moving what do they tell us so basically its progress towards my goal so you can set a step goal I set something pretty achievable for CES so it was about 10,000 and I think I smashed that by midday yes oh yeah so the display on the device gives you very quick feedback throughout the day and if you want something more you actually fire up your smartphone and the device has been sinking in the background so you launch the app the data is already there you could see your past history or graphs etc and on Android phones there's actually NFC tag embedded in the device so all you have to do with certain android phones is just tap the phone to the band and the app will automatically launch so we're all about removing friction in the process so this tracks your activity and what else so steps calories distance your sleep quality so how how long it took you to fall asleep how many times you woke up there's a haptic motor in there for waking you up gently in the morning so it also has a Bluetooth 4.0 so it's always sinking constantly in the background so it's all about you know how do we create an ambient device that collects meaningful metrics about your daily lifestyle and on mobile apps and on the web provide tools to actually help you reach your goals welcome back the second I want to ask you Michael about what will be the breakthrough for most people for your technology what do you think is going to be the aha that might be the buzz worthy hey have you tried this thing after we come back whether this next demo from bt here this is the eye tribe technology we mentioned this briefly at the open using I scanning to operate the mouse or maybe other parts of the interface on a piece of technology tell us what you're doing and not that you're ignoring us watching a movie I'm not at all Brian so what this is is this is the eye tribe tech demo in what it has yours initially you kind of calibrate their there's a camera on the bottom with LEDs on the bottom that detect where my eyes are we're going to show you this just an image of the screen right now in a second just you can see what it looks like okay so this is where we have you can see little my two eyeballs in the right hand side yeah okay so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna swipe into an app once it calibrates that and knows where my eyes are I'm gonna jump in a game like fruit ninja because you know I'm a ninja but this time I'm a ninja with my eyes so we're gonna get to there and all I have to do is I've stopped to look at the fruit look at that Cooley you like that seriously Wow Lindsay you got some of that pineapple Kiwi mango lime pineapple kiwi lemon mango so you're actually using your eyes as the interface to move right now right this is set to move the cursor around as if it was your watermelon and oh there you go ok it's not voice technology no no no I'm just saying oh because I'm getting in the game baby i'm in look at that look at that frou-frou oh you're distracting me but that you know it's an example of what we can see here we're here with Martin tall which is a very appropriate name here right Martin yeah that's Republic 64 and Martin just tell us about the technology and where you guys see it going okay so what we shown here today is an add-on devised for your tablet we can actually control the interface straight it's sort of replacing a touch or a mouse or something like that but we see it being used all across the board so just making the device a lot more aware of what your brain is actually focusing on a lot of the cortex is actually dedicated to the visual system it gives away a lot of your attention what your motives are what your interest lies and I think this technology is enabling much more intelligent computers they're just not sitting around and waiting for input anymore they will know before you even know and then where do you expect to see this you know this technology integrate you're hoping to put it in other products in the future right right so it's going to be a desktop laptop tablets smartphones in cars to see if you're falling asleep if you're paying attention and all that sort of stuff so it's going to come into range of products and it's gonna happen soon to write excellent all right back to you guys I have a question when you were doing that you were simply moving cursor with your eyes and because the way fruit ninja works you didn't need to have any click command through your eyes right there's no click enabled at this point that's correct i mean if you were if you look at it um well where my eyes were pointing it was kind of said with this game demo to kind of have a little movement of a swipe already so was doing little baby cuts so whenever my eyes move to that point it was chopping up all those fruit all right you're jealous aren't you we're always jealous of you Michael where we left off was what do you think can you envision a time in The Fairly near future where people are going to find one thing they kind of congeal around first and start to buzz about around technology like what you're doing and saying okay now I get it because I've tried X through it so I think I think there are two things and I know that violates the spirit of the question but uh what is that the moment someone gets the leap and they connect their computer they can use it to control Windows 8 or Mac os10 like it was a touch burn and even for legacy 2d interfaces leap can be a better way of controlling them than a touch screen because you don't have to move one to one like you do with the touch Karina if I want to move from this corner to that corner I don't have to drag and I don't have to lean forward which is tiring so I can sit back comfortably move my finger a small distance to cover the entire screen but it's still a directed experience so we think that we'll have a lot of mass-market appeal but it's also it's about the developers so the developer community is the single most important thing for us we have over 40,000 developers from 150 countries that have applied to be part of the leaf developer program and it's it's that's that the things they create which a lot of which have a lot of mass-market appeal those are things that are built to work great with leap and those are the first thing is where people are going to use it and say wow this is something that I never could have imagined doing before your army of editors how they spend so much time hunched over reaching like michael says for a device they've got to pull and we're dealing with ergo all the time like every company getting in the right position so your next not stiff and all that if we could just going to sit back I'm not making a picture you go you know install 2000 of these tomorrow theoretically it join the developer program that's it surprised you haven't already it's a huge her go breakthrough it would seem just for a way to get your body in the right position and not worry about am I also in the right position to access the interface it's just cycle one thing it it's a potentially great replacement for something like a remote control where you have to have a small but kind of not interesting device that sits around your living room your instead of sitting you know across the room and interacting with something on the other side of the room yeah definitely definitely we obviously you can use a leap near a computer to control that computer but you can also use it to control something that's far away so we we imagine use cases like a conference room where everyone has a leap in front of them that everyone is interacting with the same screen potential collaboration as well absolutely now let's just talk about the data that comes out of what all you your companies are doing we've got so much data from the way people interact with digital media today it's an amazing ground swell in the last let's say 15 years generously but if we look at any frontiers that are still untilled and user data that we have in the digital media it's it's this stuff it's its body and gesture we have no insight into that all the data we have about users on the web we don't know anything about where their arm was or what their body position was or what they're sort of biorhythm state was when they saw something this is a this is like unlocking a new area of data isn't it I look forward to the day where I don't need to go to the doctor anymore but instead i'm told by my by my iphone or by my computer hey we know something wrong you're walking differently than before you might want to see somebody and here's what you should tell them it is and he hears me you give them with all the data over the last three months that gives them a history and say you're putting an extra eight pounds of pressure on your left hip what's wrong afraid of being nagged I you know did you guys hear about the haptic feedback fork fitness on the fig it vibrates when you're eating too quickly i think i would just be like you know what I'm putting you in the dishwasher technology again it's supposed to Moltar how humans already live so it should never be a you know too obtrusive but and instead of having diagnostic medicine is today where they just do a bunch of tests when you when you aren't feeling well to have that diagnostic medicine happening throughout your entire life I think the key thing too is you know if you watch the show house md in a house of his favorite lines is you know people always lie but if you are collecting this data and you do present it to your doctor I mean it's it's it's I think quite informative for the doctor to see how you have actually been living your life between doctor visits I mean what is what he's what he's doing today is trying to make a quick judgment based on observing you for maybe 10 15 minutes but asking you questions but you know if he was supplemented by this data and possibly automated intelligence on top of that data I think that'd be a huge breakthrough and we all have such huge bias anyway about what we think we've done that led two outs or whatever we don't really know how we are I mean a question for you James about the fitbit fits into a space I think tell me if I'm if I'm crazy here that is we're moving toward the 401k ification of health care where we have to become partners and be co responsible for our health as we now are our retirement over the last you know 30 40 years since that kicked in is that a trendy things happening I think so I mean you know we sell a lot of devices to employers as part of their corporate wellness programs and I think there I hate to call it a partnership but i think you know it's good for both the employee yeah it's good for both the employee and the company for you to be healthy so I would hate to see punitive measures ever taken but I think right now it's all you know everyone working together opt in and you know let's get healthy all right uh any final questions or anything that we've left out what have we left out what have you thought why didn't they ask this why don't I ask that so we get it we asked this a lot like why don't you add this feature why is it have a clock all those kind of things and uh part of part of what makes building a great device and Billy a great interface tough is dealing with all the noise and actually the discipline to keep it simple and that's something to keep in mind you know for all of us when when looking at the session yes yeah I've been looking at all this next-generation technology keeping it really simple is hard to do and that's something we need to do in order to really to drive into the mass market yeah Michael final thoughts well I think it in our case it goes back to the importance of the developer community so we are very actively seeking new applications from developers of all of all kinds and we will be continuing to send out thousands of leaf devices between now and when we actually start shipping the product james last thoughts to leave us with for us you know i think what we're going to see in digital health is you know smaller and smaller devices collecting more and more meaningful data types and i think it's it's a really exciting time because you know it's really in the past few years that technology has gotten to the point where devices like the Fitbit have been possible so I'm really excited yeah okay good stuff I want to thank everybody for joining us for this panel this has been you know I know we have to think as a deterrent organization all of our children are beautiful all of our projects and panels and pieces this is my favorite so far at this show so thanks everyone for being here please join me in thanking our guests if you will James Park from Fitbit Matt Rogers from nest and Michael Buckwald from lead motion great future thinkers and of course thanks to be T and the companies that joins him there of musics interacts on with the muse brainwave sensing technology and I tribe the eye tracking and scanning technology more good stuff to have a hand for them great innovators great innovators on behalf of myself and editor-in-chief Lindsey Turrentine thank you for being with us and our live coverage at CES continues here at CES cnet com you