Gadgetory

good morning on Tuesday December 12 it's episode 331 of the 359 podcast I'm BVG and your host today are Joanie Sol's Minh and Ben Fox Ruben hello hello thanks for coming on yeah so we're gonna be talking about net neutrality yet again this will be in the run-up for the Thursday vote from the FCC which is the expected repeal if net neutrality there have been a couple of protest efforts this week which will run through also on the gadget side we'll talk about the review of the Google home max and also talk about Apple again with the purchase of Shazam which was confirmed and announced yesterday so I think that's about it let's get to the podcast send in your questions and comments BVG we'll get to as many as you can at the end of the show and let's get started there will be plenty to talk about there certainly will be alright everybody stick around here comes four minutes ahead lines for you starting in three two welcome to the 359 I'm Ben Fox ribbon I'm Joni Salzmann the FCC is scheduled to vote on repealing net neutrality rules this Thursday but many prominent internet players are protesting the move activists and websites Mozilla Pinterest Reddit github Etsy and BitTorrent are campaigning today against the decision plus a handful of internet pioneers posted an open letter on tumblr tumblr sorry to call for the vote to be cancelled problem is Joan do you think any of this is actually going to matter it seems like generally this is like a juggernaut that cannot be stopped that the FCC is gonna hold this vote and we know how the votes gonna go and so the questions that remain are what happens next after that vote happen right exactly which is do you have any predictions as far as what could actually happen I mean net neutrality has only been around since 2015 this incarnation of it yeah so well right after the vote nothing's gonna change immediately there's a process that it has to go into effect where it has to become official and that takes but the worry is that that will change how Internet Service Providers approach the traffic that you are trying to access through their services the other thing that people are expecting definitely to happen is lawsuits to be filed so even if the VOC does go the way that we expect it to go on Thursday we're still chances in the courts to change things that way which will definitely slow things down even more in the meantime obviously consumers are definitely concerned that cost of their internet could actually go up some of their websites could get slowed down so it's obviously understandable that all these protests are happening I mean while I agree it's still a very big question mark as far as what might actually happen after this vote goes through next up Google is now selling a four hundred dollar smart speaker with really good audio called the Google home max it will compete against the Sonos one and apples home pod which is delayed to next year would you buy a $400 smart speaker I wouldn't but I'm curious what kind of consumer you know what kind of person does this make sense for do you know I mean like we always mentioned like for something this expensive for a smart speaker especially because it can pair together so you wouldn't just buy one for $400 maybe you buy two for $800 obviously this is somebody that is like really into music and audio file and I don't know like for me I'd prefer to spend $30.00 I think I'm an echo dot or a Google home Mini and that's why those products also exist well I'm curious if you think that the difference kind of tactics going for the very cheap mass-market thing versus that very high-end what's the strategy of having both of those why I have that high-end just like try to sell as much stuff as possible for sure and I think the very cheap has obviously shown to be working as best as possible the echo dot is Amazon's best-selling echo and that's why the Google home Mini exists the big question to would be is Apple gonna get into that game and start selling is super cheap smart speaker I ate like goes against everything we know about Apple yeah I think people would be really excited if they had some like really cute slick looking smart speaker the whole Hyde jr. something I don't know last speaking of Apple Apple agreed to buy Shazam the music recognition app why would they need Shazam why why did this purchase go through well they haven't said exactly the reason why Apple was always hush-hush about its takeovers and this one was unique in that they actually acknowledged that they bought it but they did say that they're excited to start integrating Shazam into Apple music their streaming service that's very similar to Spotify some of the reasons could be obviously that kind of music recognition Shazam has lots of users doing lots of music recognition over many years and so they have a lot of data about what people like and what they don't like and that can help Apple music with recommendations yeah so customers can look forward to that and see more of that in Apple music if you want to read more about these stories check us out on CNET I'm Ben Fox ribbon I'm Joanie Saltzman thanks for listening alright everybody thanks for joining us for the podcast recording portion I'm gonna go ahead and delve into the chat dig out any of your best questions and comments to keep the conversation going here on the 3:59 podcast even though they're well well past 3 minutes and 59 seconds what we did like maybe 20 seconds over I'm counting that we had started with a pre-show and then there's a show ok Joe and this little four-minute audio podcast has gotten way way way too complicated our long podcast yes this is taken over my life ok I want to ask Joan a quick question related to the Shazam ok ok so if all Apple is doing is integrating Shazam service into Apple music and like a lot of people already have the standalone app so what's the point you know you're you're and and couldn't they have just done a partnership job they have done partnerships azam like Siri you can already ask Siri - Shazam something you don't have to open the Shazam app yourself you can ask Siri to do it for you so they've already done partnerships like that so it's definitely not just for their technology this takeover because they can as Shazam has been willing to let them use their technology natively inside thing like Siri before I think it really is about having all that data having so many users it still has lots of active users people are always damning stuff what was what was the number that you mentioned a number that I saw yesterday was something like 160 million monthly active users a lot that was two years ago but no matter what that's that's a lot even though it was a little a couple years ago I'm it's hard to say where it's gone from there that's still a lot of people using a service and it's a lot of people telling sending signals about what they like and what they don't like with music you know music discovery is the thing that really differentiates these services from one another is that they can give you music that you're gonna like without very much effort and so in that way it's a competitive move against Spotify do you think that this is a way for Apple to try to I don't know compete more effectively against Spotify because maybe they're losing against them I don't actually know I'm assuming that Spotify is the more popular service but I modified by far has more subscribers than Apple music and Spotify by far has more users because unlike Apple music Spotify has that free option where you can listen with listen with ads instead of having to pay directly Apple music doesn't have that so but in terms of like an apples to apples comparison Spotify has a lot more in terms of an apples to apples comparison of Apple to Spotify pure subscribers Apple has I think the last count that I saw Apple has like 30 million and Spotify has like 60 million they're both growing apples definitely assembly like a two horse race in terms of subscription music services Apple and Spotify are the biggest and they're definitely both growing well but Spotify is bigger and I think growing at a at a bigger pace yeah I'm pretty sure a lot of people tuned in to hear our conversation also about net neutrality so maybe we should get to those questions sure let's go ahead and start off with the question from our old friend Matthew - are the - on the chat what happens in a post net neutrality world if we use a VPN to access the Internet how will that be impacted well I don't know exactly change I don't think that would real and they would they be able to put into effect some effort to try to police that though to police why don't you can use a VPN a lot of people use VPN for less than admirable reasons to try to or for business reasons very true and that's interactive uses VPNs all the time for protective business purposes as well very true but that's totally accurate I'm sure would be able to further regulate it though and set some kind of precedent who are using it to cover try one of the things about the net neutrality proposal is that the FCC wants to offload the responsibility of this kind of regulation to the Federal Trade Commission right and so if it's a matter of asking whether there could be new regulation over VPNs it sounds like as you would imagine from a Republican administration the general principle is like we don't want more regulation we were less yeah so in terms of in practice what is peace would do around VPNs I don't really know because it's not the main concern about a net neutrality a change in net neutrality regulation right a bigger the I I agree with everything you said the bigger issues related to net neutrality as far as I can tell are are there going to be fast lanes are they gonna our ISPs going to be picking and choosing winners on the internet and that would affect traffic that's going over a VPN as much as it would people that don't bother to use a VPN so it would affect people using VPNs and people not it's a higher level of control over the bits and bytes that are coming to your computers yes the apples to apples so let's get a bit of a counter argument as by and large a lot of people are in favor of net neutrality at least present company included John Doe is pushing a bit of it a conspiracy do you really think it's like conspiracy theories but this sparks a really great conversation so do you really think and think think it's a coincidence at the largest companies in the world are pushing for net neutrality when they're the ones who benefit from free streaming they can't charge for data if people had to pay for 4k streaming they wouldn't I don't know if that's necessarily true anymore at least in the coming years as 4kb comes to north it's not a conspiracy that's totally delicious the first part was like do you really think they're not behind this kind of anyway Netflix wants everyone to pay a flat rate in order to subsidize their own service I I don't see anything wrong I didn't say there's anything wrong with a said it sparked a good conversation and is a little bit counter to the to the norm of the conversation we're having no totally and I feel like I've made a very similar argument on this podcast several times related to that I think that Google Netflix have a vested interest in maintaining net neutrality to preserve their bottom line and push those costs onto the backs of ISPs these are all multi-billion dollar companies so I guess I shouldn't feel bad for anybody yeah but at the same time it is a matter of fairness and if Netflix is getting away with not having to pay for this infrastructure and forcing it on somebody else is that is that appropriate and do the ISPs actually have a legitimate argument I don't think anybody generally agrees with that position except for John Doe I'd that's okay and it's it's an interesting conversation to have certainly I think a lot of people are concerned that this is going to have vast changes for the internet but as you said before Joan anything that does change is probably going to be very slow particularly if there are going to be lawsuits what's interesting to see is just how much people are fired up about this topic considering it can be hard to understand and it's I mean it's hard to understand so in terms of the technical aspects of it but also the regulatory aspect so it's interesting to see that people are really fired up about this subject matter and that definitely I think guarantees that it's something that's not going to be it's not gonna go well however this vote goes it's not gonna be going down without a fight yeah I and I think a lot of this is the reason it got so heated is because it got directly connected to how the Internet is structured and obviously a lot of people have a very vested interest in making sure the internet stays open and and available to people they don't want to have ala carte services for the Internet where it gets sliced and diced and divvied up they don't want their their costs going up and then beyond that there have been a lot of arguments about that this is a threat to democracy that it could cause internet censorship I obviously understand every single one of those points but at the same time does that mean that this regulatory regime is the best one for the Internet and obviously the current FCC doesn't think that it is and the other ones that are in power to decide that well I think if anything is getting approval right now is that nobody really knows absolutely 100% what is the best solution for this anomaly that is the Internet we've seen it but in the past with FM radio is supplanting supplanting AM radio we've seen cable TV kind of take a nosedive nobody really knows how to properly distribute information and data they're going to continue to throw stuff at the wall until something sticks and in the meantime we're alone for the ride I think the one that I take I think a lot of these distribution platforms have been really they've been sticking pretty well when they're the dominant one I mean lie the nature of 90% of the American population has cable TV like that's that's not true yeah Wow but but cord cutting is on the rise yeah like it's not it's now like 88 percent instead of like 90 percent which is because it's the entire country that's saying we've completely 180 down the entire thing but I think that what I'm trying to enforce here is that with with media and consumption and the way it's supposed to kind of follow and shape the world all at the same time there is no absolute solution it's going to continue to change that is the nature and I think that's what we need to be ready for is it's safe to say good prices change with the repeal and net neutrality yeah will they we don't know right but I think something is going to change the status quo is going to shift some how we need to be ready we need to be on our toes because this is a big thing for those of us working in the media from the perspective of the FCC I think a lot of the arguments really get get pushed toward proponents of net neutrality just to kind of take a talking point from a GPI the chairman of the FCC he argues that from from a position of censorship he claims that Twitter is a bigger issue for censor on the Internet then potentially you change in regulations I never I never thought I'd agree with him but I do to an extent he his argument is also somewhat political in nature where he said that Twitter has an agenda it's it's I'm I can't remember exactly yeah essentially a left-leaning agenda and you know goes against you know other positions that don't actually follow that agenda sure but Twitter's also riding on the coattails of his boss yeah that's that's another that's another point I think the other issue there to go against what IG PI head said is that Twitter is one private company whereas you know the idea of regulation from the government is is a much broader issue okay back into the questions let's start a new conversation MP Cody my opinion is that the US should repeal net neutrality but allow each state to make their own laws on it I think that's largely what we're going to see happen I think that's kind of the goal of the conservative movement some areas may not be affected by it but some will expanding on that all the cellphone carriers already charged extra for HD and some don't even allow 4k and the ones that do charge for honestly net neutrality is an unenforced joke the way it is now mmm harsh words but there's definitely points to be had there I don't know what that would actually do if you push net neutrality back to the states and it would be like state-by-state internet I don't know I just think that's that even look like I mean I think that's a sentiment that is shared amongst the Republican Party that that's the way things should be run as a state to state regulation or lack thereof however that works I mean isn't that kind of like the mo of the Republican Party with some some things but then with other things not yeah and going back to like a point that Roger continually makes about you know the Republican versus Democrat administrations if if and when a Democrat ends up taking over the White House and therefore can appoint FCC commissioners does that just mean that that net neutrality is gonna get you know brought back pink which is back and forth which is like a crazy and certainly problematic situation start wonder if maybe Congress should step in and actually do something yeah and so the story that I wrote yesterday about this like group about 20 internet pioneers you send an open letter that's what they're doing is they're writing to Congress to lawmakers and saying like specifically here you need to step in and tell the FCC not to have this vote or specifically they were talking specifically around this vote that's coming up but generally that's the idea is that you know we haven't had legislation about how the internet works in a really long time and then it's changed a lot in that period so I don't know and then but if you're putting your hopes on Congress getting anything done especially something so complicated then I I totally agree yeah yeah that's that's in in some ways they would probably prefer you know unelected bureaucrats I have to yeah wrench wrench with this whole situation then have to go back to their constituency and say like I made I took this position or that position so there's a lot of politics involved in this and it'll probably continue to be that case I just want to shout out to Doug Murray yes the microphones are sitting on my old 8-track tapes from a personal collection from Doc Stevenson yeah Jones is a polka beer festival oh how appropriate I married a Polish man so so just just to lighten things up for a little bit I'll themed meanwhile question for Joan from Michael Brown yes when could we expect the net neutrality effects to actually go like this actually happen so the answer is I don't know if you want so meg Maggie Reardon is Marguerite Reardon as her byline goes she is our go-to person on all things net neutrality she has a lot of coverage on CNET and she's also she's been covering this really well for like decades she's a real she's a legit expert on it so my first recommendation is go to seen it and see some of Maggie stories but from what I've read of her stories is a lot of it depends on how companies once the dust settles in terms of the regulations are put in place the boat's done regulations are put in place lawsuits bring up whatever once that kind of dust settles it depends on what ISPs want to do like when the in 2015 when they made that when the previous FTC made change to the current regulations there was a lot of hue and cry about how this would stifle innovation and love a lot but what I've heard from Maggie is that there actually hasn't been like that much change or burden on companies and they haven't like there's no evidence that investment in innovation has been decreased in any way or whatever so a lot of it kind of depends on what those monolithic companies that deliver your Internet to you decide they want to do because they have the ability to play around with more tools on your traffic if there's less regulation on them yeah different regulation and from an infrastructure perspective that kind of thing moves very slow yeah that's true but from a like if they're innovating in terms of services that they can provide people like if they like the there's a issue of paid prioritization I don't think it takes very much for them to say Netflix you have to pay us some money if you want your yeah do go in a fast lane I don't I think that that kind of innovation where they're innovating on how they charge people I think that can happen pretty quickly they decide that's what they want to go but they have to deal with what consumers I mean obviously consumers are very riled up about this issue they have to deal with the fact that consumers might vote with their wallet and be like that's the other problem is that you know I would they go where do you go your I usually there's only one or maybe two if you're lucky from games in town so you cover Netflix from your perspective Netflix very you know routinely increases their subscription prices do you think that their next subscription increase they could blame on the audience I mean they could they they might but ultimately if it's the same when when there was the debate around that neutrality and 2015 Netflix was very outspoken about it less so this time but one of the reasons that I remember when they were talking about when we're talking about that round of net neutrality discussions they raised that process wonder how it could raise prices for your content but ultimately like the reason your Netflix subscription is getting marks message because nothing suspending like a big billions of dollars on content yeah not because they might get um pennies in comparison increase and getting it delivered to you which I think is very important context ya know and like there's a lot of noise that's being directed at consumers from all these companies they all want to present themselves as being on the side of the consumer and hopefully what we can do here very small extent is to at least educate people and provide them with a little bit more information as far as what's going on all right we are running super low on time and there are a ton of really good questions and fantastic conversation happening in the chat as always we should do a lightning round lightning round so for Pele and Scott Maya how is net neutrality going to affect people in Europe as well as other places in the world there are a lot of social media and streaming services from the US what impact we're gonna see globally that's that's a really hard one to say I've mentioned in previous podcasts that because the the u.s. is the u.s. oftentimes their regulatory position is taken up or considered by other countries so that could you know end up having an impact on Europe in that case I don't actually know if Facebook or YouTube are impacted by net neutrality in some ways it would how that would impact European consumers because some of those videos are based in servers in Europe so yeah that's under a different regimes it's a hard questioning I think in this case net neutrality is a pretty localized effect because your ISP I mean it's very localized getting your traffic it comes to a server near you and then goes to your house and ultimately Retton it net neutrality regulations are on those people that are providing it right in your neighborhood but there could be like you said kind of like echo effects on like how does that affect Netflix and then how does that affect what Netflix invests in and how does that affect what Netflix can send to Europe and distribute there you know it could have echo effects but I don't think directly Europeans will be more people in other countries would be affected by the vote all right moving on Michael Brown let's change directions here do you think the Shazam acquisition by Apple has something to do with the pixel twos a music recognition built in also Michael aren't you at the spa why are you watching this she is at the spa Cheers cheers to you your soon birthday I think sorry I saw that on Twitter I'm not super creepy okay guys well maybe just remember just remember self not creepy if you watch this show then we'll find you we follow each other on Twitter why did I say that out loud anyway happy birthday I think Michael and thank you for the question as always the question the question was do you think this am acquisition will have it has anything to do with pixel twos music recognition being built in that's a really good that's a really good process I had yeah it's really good insight I hadn't thought about that but staying I mean the iPhone is the golden ticket for Apple still it's a thing where they can make all their money so anything that makes their iPhone more competitive against an upsurge in competitor surging rival it's definitely tantamount and Tim Cook's mine absolutely and the last question for the day because we are clean out of time Danny Green is there anything in Shazam that can boost Siri ie sound detection to help you find music or movies that you might like that would be a neat thought yeah sure the possibility I mean well you know we talked about on the podcast itself about how Siri a pelant Siri have already partnered with Shazam so that you can directly ask Siri to Shazam something and hear it but if you have if it's not a partnership if it's just kind of like UNIX like in xsplit not inexplicably in extract ibly if they're all connected strictly inextricably intertwined then feasibly that means it could work better oh man I want to say those words five times fast inextricably op offline when the mics are no longer on we won't make you say tongue twisters of weird words so we are at a time but we do want to remind folks that this is our last regular broadcast week of 2017 final show being on Thursday and this coming Thursday well we will be going live just a little bit early to make way for another live scene that show that day so we'll probably be on somewhere around 10:00 10:15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time this coming Thursday the thank you yeah and then we'll have a couple of filler shows up on YouTube live stream as well as audio podcasts to kind of get you through the holiday season and then we'll be back in January starting at CES mm-hmm and then Rees general regular resume schedule TBD but stay tuned on Twitter asterisk as net neutrality will allow we are out of time now wants to bring us home I'll do it I think the 359 podcast is available on iTunes tune in stitcher feedburner google play music the Amazon echo and of course Sienna comm thanks everybody for watching great questions we'll see you again tomorrow see you tomorrow you