Gadgetory

support for today's show comes from Shutterstock every business needs high quality images to attract and keep customers I told you you see something that looks good you want to click on it so whether you're making brochures or ads or putting the final touches on your next tweet the visuals you choose are proven to make a difference so check this out get started today with a 20% discount at shutterstock.com slash crunchy that stands for extra Apple bite extra crunchy I can't even say it but you know what that's how you do it again shutterstock.com backslash crunchy let's get to the show hello everybody we are not live but we are here in the studio together it's the Apple bad extra country podcast with your host mr. Brian Tong yeah we're in the house mr. Beecham and the pho 92 if you're listening this right now I'm actually on a beach feeling the Sun against my skin it is here the waves Oh trust me I'm already here I'm seeing them I'm hearing I'm smelling them right now but welcome to the show Apple byte extra crunchy episode 92 we're gonna do something a little different today because we wanted to kind of really dig in a little bit more specifically to talk about the apps or an app development and all those things so what I wanted to do is bring in my good friend back way back from our Apple retail store days yes if you didn't know that I mean I've said it multiple times on the show that I used to work for Apple retail way back in the day oh gee oh gee my good buddy Joe chip Polanski he is now officially his official title if we want to go buy that the creative director of balmy brain interactive has his own apps as an indie developer has apps with bombing brain and really a jack-of-all-trades Joe thank you so much for coming on the show welcome yeah it's a pleasure man it's been a long time since we talked it's been a while again I don't even remember when you might know that when did the when did the Palo Alto Apple Store man open was it around 2005 or 6 I can't remember do you remember that it was pre iPods you know I it's got to be like yeah I think it was closer to 2002 or so I say but it was a while ago yeah so that's how that's how far back we go we were there you know like you said for iPods iPhone we were there for those first launches and I think it's really great because not only do we have that connection from the past I mean you are now you know a developer I wanted to kind of first bring up so people get a sense of maybe a little bit of your journey and be like okay and people that don't know you have your own podcast called release notes that focuses really deep dives and this stuff but maybe you could tell people a little about your journey from maybe a little before the Apple store and then how you have evolved in how you've gone to where you are now sure my background actually it was I was an English teacher believe it or not that's what I studied in school and I was teaching yeah lovely city atmosphere but yeah so I was a teacher for about five years first in the Philadelphia area where I grew up but then I moved down to California and I taught for one last year there and I was always interested in tech though I was always doing kind of graphic stuff and so when I quit teaching I let that go I was looking for work you know in graphic design and I found it full-time job doing that but I also at the same time applied for the Apple store and so it was one of my first part-time jobs outside of teaching and I would come in on nights and weekends basically and they kind of hired me to you know their idea behind the part-timers were like people who knew nothing about retail but kind of knew the Mac and knew apples stuff and we would go in there and I did some of the like the presentations oh yeah yeah it's not used to do presentations and whatnot and then you know I would tell people I was a musician and things like that so I was helping people with buying Pro Solutions and it was a lot of fun and that's where I met you that is where we met I think also though as an indie developer you know you were doing graphic design but you weren't necessarily doing coding or anything at that time well what kind of drove you in that direction as well yes you know drove me all the way to the iPhone basically a mobile development happens you know people were there remember it was you know prior to that it was not really an open field for any user there are established Indies out there there were people making some decent money on the Mac but it seems like a pipe dream that you'd never be able to start your own company software company at that point you know is like go work for Adobe or go work for Microsoft or Apple or one of those companies if you really wanted to build software and the iPhone all that and so a couple friends of mine who were computer science majors got in touch with me right after the iPhone right at the app store really in 2008 and they said hey you know we're building some apps we need some graphics we heard you're doing graphic design now do you want to help us out and that's how I got involved with ani brain and I started doing graphics for them and over the years what ended up happening was you know I was doing the graphic design that was great but more and more I was asking lots of questions about code and so the two guys gets me bugging me and basically saying you gotta just start you gotta start coding yourself you're you're asking too many questions you're asking all the right questions you're obviously interested in this and so I started learning the code on my own I build a few apps of my own and it really helped me to be a better designer but also to build my own apps but then also to help them with code along the way now I do want to I want to do drop drop a plug at least one of the balmy brain apps is teleprompt plus which is a teleprompter app which a lot of people now you see a lot of people on the go although yeah you can talk to your phone or to a camera on the fly there is still more than enough reasons or uses to actually have a teleprompter type app on their phone can you name drop some of the other apps that you guys at mommy brain have and as well as maybe some of your indie apps just to give people a sense of like okay this guy has more than just like one app under his belt success with and yeah you're right I mean we've got senators we've got lots of people using that app and it's you know it's pretty useful in its it's had a great amount of success for it so we also build another app called set lists which is similar it's kind of a lyric prompter more for musicians real in bands and that was actually my original idea when the iPad came out we all kind of did a powwow and we said what should we build for this new thing and I came up with this idea like you know whenever I'm performing on stage I can't remember lyrics you know so it would be nice to have the lyrics up there and so then we kind of molded that idea into a standard kind of teleprompter and build that first and then after a while we decided to go ahead and try the setlist app as well and that's been doing well for us lately it's been growing quite a bit and the musicians are gonna give you quite a bit and it's it's really helpful so you can put your chord changes in there you can also put your you know your lyrics and instead of it scrolling you know constantly it's more like a cue card system where you see one verse at a time I for one course of the time and you advance it either with the foot control or do it with a simple swipe and you know so that that's not really well for us in addition I've got a few apps on my own I built a timer a little timer app called Finn with your French but the idea is basically when I was giving presentations I still like to present on stage so the old teacher and me I was having to practice a lot and like you know you have to do it exactly a 45 minute talk or a 30 minute sock I needed a big giant timer in front of me they couldn't tell me exactly how much time I had left and you know when there's 10 minutes left the screen turns you know green and then you know when it's time minutes left orange you know that kind of thing and so I built that and that's been doing pretty well for me I'd look better as a solo thing I also have another one called next to Y which is an aspect ratio calculator was kind of that was the first half I felt sort of helped me when I was doing design work that that is absolutely impressive I went there I did go there okay so I wanted to die yes so I wanted to dive into you know for our listeners and everyone is obviously excited about iOS 11 just because how it is obviously no matter what a new operating system or updated operating system for the iOS platform and really does change how we use the iPad specifically but I wanted to dig into the App Store because when I first saw it I was actually a little frustrated for developers because I felt like especially on the screen real estate of the iPhone I'm like this feels like it's an app store that has less discovery but features because of kind of the cards and it is a cleaner look but features a way of like you know it is this mostly gonna be more sponsor people app developers with money that are gonna be able to buy placement more than allowing the discovery to happen and really give any developers and I know they have an indie developer section here and there but it seemed like there was less discovery I'm curious as it of for yourself what are your thoughts with the facelift of the iOS 11 App Store and maybe how it might help you or hurt you yeah you know and talking to a lot of my indie developer friends a lot of people have had that same reaction that you've had and I understand it completely like you know there is less on the screen at any given time and so there are fewer things being featured at once but as a designer what I also know is that if you're seeing less fewer things on the screen that means each thing that's on the screen is larger and so those larger features are going to catch people's attention better I also like the design in that it's it feels finely like it's Apple like for me the App Store always sort of looked like a bargain base then you know they were cramming as much stuff in there was just a bunch of icons and so people didn't have a whole lot to go on when they're making purchase decisions and I think that really helped or hurt rather the the amount of time that people are spending in there anymore I love about you I don't go to the App Store at all anymore unless I am searching for a specific thing I've already heard of I think what Apple's trying to do with this design is to get people back into a habit of just showing up you know just like they did with the Apple retail stores they bucked the trend yeah everyone was telling them oh you're gonna you're gonna you know pack as much product into every square inch of this storage again an apple so well no we're gonna have giant ceilings that like put five products at once you have these giant you know clean tables with only four things out on them and people there were nuts but the Apple Store has become a place that people hang out and I think they're trying to do the same thing with the App Store that they're trying to make it a place that's why they're doing all this curated content they're gonna be writing these detailed in-depth articles about different kinds of apps and like you know stories about developers they're just trying to get something they're giving people a reason to show up in the store every day and then the hope is once you're there you'll start browsing again a little more now unfortunately what they don't seem to have addressed much is the search and the search is still kind of at least in the betas that I play that so far doesn't seem to have improved a whole lot and so as long as that search is kind of a problem I think discoverability is gonna continue to be a problem so I'm a little worried on that end but you know that I know that Apple takes this time and you know people complain for years and then suddenly they just one day wake up and decide waiting for that but you know I think the improvements overall are gonna be good for everyone involved I know I understand we mean like if you're a big multi-million dollar company you're gonna get more you know even more real estate than you're already getting the rich get richer but that's the waste the AppStore is one of the things we talk about on my podcast release notes all the time is that it's an indie developer you really can't rely on the App Store as a marketing tool you really got to get people out there on your own and find you know find your customers yourself and not rely on Apple so much yeah you know that's a great point that you made just at the end of that um you know it's shame on Brian and we're gonna talk about it more but a you know you have this great podcast release notes that really digs deep into some of the things that we're touching upon now but really digs deep into the life of an indie developer the challenges decisions that you can make on product from design standpoint from you know from functionality standpoint real I mean that that's some great nitty gritty stuff in that world and honestly more than anything I learn a lot from just listening a few episodes that you guys have so people that are curious about app development should definitely check out release notes and Joe is one of the voices of that show the thing though great point is what you just said you can't rely on the App Store to get your product out there yeah you really can't I mean its people and they're you no matter what you make chances are ten other people made an app that does a similar thing and again once they get to the office or even if they find your app via search there they don't really have a whole lot to go on they got a couple screenshots they're not going to read your description and they're just gonna go with the cheapest thing they can find or you know that's why a lot of us lately have been moving towards more of a free kind of download at least so you can try it out for a little bit you know Apple did help us with that with the subscription changes last year where more of us can kind of you know allow almost they don't really call it a free trial but you can kind of have a sort of a functionality and you can have a subscription that you know the last 14 days and then shuts down you know anything that gets people to be able to try before they buy is a good thing and you know I really think that that's sort of where the software game is heading in general we really can't count upon it's not the old days you know it's not like you had these few small little band of customers that we're willing to pay 50 bucks for things they just aren't so instead we have a ton of people and another one to pay for hey you know you have to find those few people who are willing to pay for a good solution but you know you can expect them to pay a lot until they've had a chance to really see to your product that you're serious well you go ahead go start do you guys have like a marketing team like it seems like you're saying this is a lot has a lot to do with marketing so as soon as you guys make an app or you have a marketing team working with you while you're building the app or how does that work yeah sort of our marketing blog posts and we reach out to you know journalists whenever we can and you know we try to get the word out I do talks at conferences all the time or you know anything that we can do we've actually done some partnerships for the teleprompter and one of the smartest things we did was a bunch of hardware manufacturers came to us people that were making sort of mirror reflector devices hardware for the iPad or the foot pedal control the Bluetooth foot pedals for stopping and starting and stuff like that they they came to us and they basically said you know what we have this great hardware we don't really feel like writing an app do you mind if we just tell people you know send them you show them your app when they ask questions about it and you know maybe you'd hook us up with those you know a link on our on your store you know on your website to battle and so we kind of do these back and forth and I think we end up on the better end of that deal because while they sell a two hundred dollar piece of hardware for customer you know when our app is only you know $20 $25 you know they're actually going out and doing a lot of marketing that trade shows that we can't afford to go to they go to nab and those kinds of shows and they're there they're showing every customer our software so that really helps quite a bit and you know those kinds of partnerships I think have been a big thing for us but it's hard it's really hard to do marketing because it's the last thing you wanted to do you know as a developer as a designer you want to be focusing on your app you want to be working on it and you know it's you have to just kind of step on the side I've heard a couple of smart people in these out there you know suggesting that you should be spending like almost half your time on marketing if you really want us to see it that seems like a bummer you know like I understand like you guys are kind of like artists you want to put out your product and be like here it is world and check it out and you know and then it's like no one sees me you get crickets you know so yeah that seems like a like a struggle in a lot of ways it's easier to be in business now than it was 20 30 years ago you know prior prior to the App Store you had to put yourself where in a box and you had to convince a retail store a shelf it for you yeah remember even at the apples are like for actual apps like actual box software but maybe 20 30 slots tops like it has to be shipped yeah shipped to the store and they used to take like 50% top you know if you were lucky enough for them to stock it for you so the 30 percent feels like a lot to people but it's you know it's easy to forget how much worse it well this is back in the day and how much smaller the audience was really for apps I mean people were paying for house that's because it was just this small Anish of like you know really dedicated people that wanted to do things with their computers priorly iPhone yeah I was one of those people that spend way too money on those apps if I don't so Joe I do have another question maybe just the current state of the App Store or even for app developers are there things that Apple has done recently that you really liked or things that and also maybe a little bit of both things that maybe they've done that you that you you're not really happy about yeah in the right directions for most things I mean obviously the technology gets better every year they give some more toys more things to play with more opportunities more great hardware that inspires people to buy hardware and then want to go find software for it you know I think that you know and and over the years you know they have given us a lot more stuff they're giving us stats now about our apps and our sales and how they're being used they're giving us better tools for marketing a lot of people complain when they've recently I don't know if you talked about on this show that the ratings prompts the official ratings drop that they've given us now instead of everyone writing up their own solution for like hey you like the app please rate as five stars they gave us they gave us a new controller that people complain about it because it's not exactly the way I would have written it but you know I put this thing in my app I'm getting you know it my reviews have improved you know I'm getting more of them and more of them are five stars it yeah so I think that you know they do do these things they just happen much slower than most of us watch and so we're impatient and we want to move forward and you know Apple takes its time and does things correctly you know and it's frustrating at the same time I also I do feel like iOS is still being hindered a little bit on the professional side you know the iPad sales are kind of slumping because yeah it's still tied to iOS which is really the iPhones platform and the iPhone is still more consumer oriented and yeah they did a lot of nice improvements in iOS 11 not really diggin you know working on it on my iPad I love that they added features only to the iPad that are not I phone specific I hope that that continues because really like we need like the professional software is where an indie can really you know make them much better living you're trying to sell people $1 apps or you know trying to start a social network you know without multi-million dollar back in you know funding kind of stuff here you know that's not where most of us want to be it's hard enough to do our own marketing all I think I want to do is being hunting down funding right so a lot of this would prefer to sell ask for thirty or forty dollars and you know what these promotional apps you can good apps you know really nice you know professional types of artists tools and things like that you know you can sell it a higher price and you can target that smaller audience but the iPad is seen as a professional device as much yet as I love it today so the faster than Apple can keep improving and making it more of a pro device yeah I mean I've been a big fan of people that know I've been a big fan of the iPad from day one I still love it I write when the new iPad pro came out and then when iOS 11 was showing I'm like finally they're giving this product like an actual identity that makes it different from iOS not as much as you and I would like to kind of take it to the next level and really feel like hey we could maybe one day actually get an Adobe Photoshop app but now it's you know other companies have stepped in to kind of fill that void with affinity photo but at least it feels more like a device that can do more and hopefully that this is they don't just stop at this I I would be disappointed though if like in another two years it's kind of the same as what we got now because they gave us so much more stuff yeah the last time they kinda give us a little bit of iPad stuff yeah exactly it was in two years the place right yeah exactly well look out guys it's true and I didn't use it all that much yeah it is kind of janky yeah now the way they fixed a split screen in the new version is much better and like having the dock there and things like that are definitely gonna make that more useful to me I'm already using it more than I ever did but I agree with you I hope that this isn't like an every two year kind of improvement thing you know I know I know the iPhones where they make their money and they really need to keep on top of that but at the same time you know it's the same thing with the you know recently they announced they're gonna do this iMac Pro and there we really kind of invigorating the Mac Pro program after like five years of that going nowhere you know I have a feeling that someone in Apple is kind of waking up to this idea that like well these Pro customers are important to us and so although we make 99% more money on the iPhone we also have to take care of these pros as well because that's where our you know great innovations come from and guess what when you're making devices for pros that are nice you don't have to make sixty billion of them every month then you can you can put higher tech stuff in them earlier without having to worry about the the supply chain and everything else keeping up with that so I'm hoping we'll see faster innovation as a result of that so 27 is iPad next year that's my baby yo table like copy table you know the surface was getting there but we don't really see that table thing anymore yeah I get me there get me there I mean Joe we're gonna ask a couple more questions for any developers I know there's a lot of people that listen to our show they're just basically they love the Apple ecosystem and the things about it we like to be a little more balanced and keep it raw and real with how we feel about some of the things they do but for an indie developer or someone who's curious about that well what are some maybe a few bullet points that you can use as guidance for someone who's like you know what I kind of do want to make an app I want to try and happen what are some of those points that you would kind of say to someone that wants to dig in it too no matter what age they are yeah first and foremost realize that you can do it I used to think that development was magic you know just like a lot of people do I I would watch developers and like they I say I designed something I'd say here's what I want this button to do and like five minutes later it come back to me and it was working and I thought wow I don't know how to do that so that must be crazy hard to do and then I started learning development and yeah I really think with tools like Swift playgrounds you know i I've run through the playgrounds actor you know I learned all my develoment on objective-c but I figured I wanted to dig into Swift let me just download this app I know it's like kind of geared towards kids a little bit but it'll be fun then honestly like there is no barrier to that you can learn how to do this so that's personal form you want it if you want it badly enough you're gonna stop and start a few times if the first couple of times I've tried developments I got really frustrated fast and I quit and then I came back two or three months later and then I quit but eventually it does click and eventually things start happening and it's it's really it's an amazing feeling when you when you're working on something for hours you're trying to solve this problem and then you realize it was a simple little thing that you were missing and instead of being angry at yourself for missing it for three hours you're just amazed that it finally works and it never ends with development is a constant you know fun thing needs to be able to cope these computers into it so I say absolutely if you want to do it you should try it you should experimental talk to people find meetups there's meetups all over the place and every kind of city there's cocoa heads there's other types of meetups oh yeah we even started a few of our own where we just get developers together and we just talk developers are incredibly generous people they will look you know they will talk to you and explain how they do things until the cows come home and you know they're more than happy to share their knowledge their like any other kind of scientist and so it's really fun that's you know they are remarkably approachable once once you get to meet them and so yeah if you wanted to do it then the next thing is like don't have expectations that you're gonna make a million dollars you know a lot of people got into app development thinking that oh this is my ticket I'm just gonna make it happen sell it for a dollar and I'm home free and it doesn't really work you really if you don't you know make a living that's fine like a lot of people make software I made my little aspect ratio popular because I've wanted to learn how to develop not because I never think it would make money and it doesn't make a whole lot of it makes me eat some money every month but you know hey that's important pizza yeah you know got that ad gives you pizza Louie pizza free pizza we Joe let's not let's not undersell that bad that's true that's true but if you want to start a business go learn about business you know and that's a whole separate set of skills that go along with you know building an app and honestly that's the only way to make it was in India in the long term but you know that doesn't mean you shouldn't be playing with apps I mean lots of people put apps on the store for fun they open source them they throw them around and they give them away for free and that's just that's part of the spirit and building things and that's that's fine - maybe you build a tool that you want to see that you don't see out there in the world and who cares if anyone buys it as long as you get to use it awesome would you recommend that people get like a graphic design background or like learn anything because I feel like that gives you an advantage right it certainly helped me quite a bit and I feel like I still to this day care about those things like whenever I'm working on a team I've done the contract work for people whatever I'm working on a team I always like kind of team up with the designer right away and I'll be like hey I'm your best friend because I know I I know why you care about that being two pixels to the left instead of working I want to fix these things I want these things to look the way I design them and so you know I think it does help quite a bit especially when you're doing using interface builder which is you know have a visual graphical way of kind of laying out your views on an iPhone screen and you know the more you're using those tools the more graphic design background easier is gonna be for you I don't think it's a requirement but it never hurts I mean a lot of developers really don't know anything about design and they go they get along just fine but I think the ones that do end up understanding their designers better and they end up communicating better with the designers in the long run awesome well Joe I just want to say thank you again so much for your time in a your knowledge can you talk about release notes a little bit to someone who may have no idea about it because I think it's better to hear from the actual person who's involved in the show yeah sure sure so it's it's me and Charles Perry who's another independent developer we met at a conference one year and we're just you know chatting with each other he's one of these really outgoing gregarious guys I'm one of these really shy people but he kind of pulled these but are those guys that make sure everyone has dinner plans what do you get oh the coppers like do you know anybody hey you want to come in there and we just had a good time I didn't think anything of it and two months later he called me or emailed me and he said hey you know what certain podcasts I'm like okay why but he said no I I respect you do and you're an Indian you've had some success with with you know Fela prime plus and so we I want to talk about the business end of being in India because at that time you know a lot of people were basically you go to conferences and all the advice was just hire a designer and make a nice icon and you'll make millions it's like well it's not working out anymore and so we wanted to talk about what actually is involved in trying to build a business and to my surprise I thought we'd get like 30 episodes in an hour on two hundred and something we've been doing this for five years we started a conference a couple of years ago so every October we actually do a conference this year it's in Chicago it's sold out in like a week which is amazing to us this year you know so there are a lot of Indies out there who want to build their business and so you know we're doing talks instead of talking about Swift all our talks are about marketing or there abouts you know building teams and communication and writing and email strategies and things like that and it's it's grown into its own kind of community in its thing and we're really enjoying it that's awesome Joe Congrats on all that success man that's that's the power of the Internet baby that's right that's power the Internet so thanks again Joe for hanging with us everyone check out release notes and you can follow more of his work there we're gonna take a quick little moment to say bye to Joe and then we're gonna come back and address and answer your voicemails because you know how we do this show is all about you and us together as one thanks a lot Joe we appreciate it buddy all right thank you thanks we're back we are back it just took a few moments to feel that beat we're gonna hit you up with the voicemails now we got three just in the course of like a day yes just since you see I'm telling you guys listen the show and you call in like right after it you have such a better chance of like getting in totally okay we're gonna go with it these are just the voicemails for this week or just to kind of catch up with you guys and then again we will return in about two more weeks with the official show where it's Beach mi live cool let me pull the phone number up on the screen just so if you are listening and you can't see this number it is 1-866-376-8255 out this just the iPhone alone already has two very key products that surround the kind of the ecosystem of the phone there's a reason why the Mac has been neglected but now they're starting to be like Oh we need to pay attention our pro customers just like Joe earlier said in our conversation so it takes them a long time to kind of what we'd like to use that word in Silicon Valley pivot and I think that they've been they've just are spread too thin with all these different categories that unless they increase their their uh you know headcount by double they aren't gonna be able to keep up with the demand so we'll see how it plays out really the next two years if we can be wowed by this new Mac Pro and if they'll show love even from a software development side you know we talked about the iPad pro hopefully that it'll see more changes that won't just get this bump up and then in two years we see another bump up that's just an indication of just how thin they're spread and a lack of focus because if you look at even something like their iPhone line what we have the entry-level model which is a I guess a 6s right now which is like the cheapest model available then you have a seven you have seven plus you know you have multiple models of the phone in sizes as well so it's just all those things combined and that's just for one product line so we'll see if they can get targeted a little more focused or you can't do everything that's the problem and we've seen that from other companies that just can't do everything yeah Jojo said something during the interview that Apple likes to take their time and move really slow and get it right I've never noticed that I've never noticed that which like which makes anything he also followed that up by saying it's very frustrating yeah but I mean that makes sense like they do take a very long time and they want to make it perfect and make it their their way their perfect idea perfect yeah so yeah but it is frustrating oh yeah that's why y'all listen to the show exact alright next call hey Brian with for the touch ID for the new iPhone 8 I think personally it will be like Apple will incorporate it into the lock button somehow because if you notice the lock button is a bit longer than the iPhone 7 and I think that's where it's going to go but I would like to get your opinion on it love the show bye thanks for calling in I don't if it's you know I've we've heard kind of things like that in the past but at least based on the current rumors we've there's no indication that that's what they're actually going to do I think it's possible in the future but right now knowing you know as things have lined up whether or not we see it in this version or not I still like the touch ID but if the face scanning works as as well as we expect it to or hope it does I think people aren't gonna really care whether there's a touch ID anything anywhere if this face Kenny works as well as a you know is believed to well we'll see about that but I at least for this Nick's coming iPhone I don't see them putting it on the on the power but you know they're you're right there's space I think also though the thing is that we've seen kind of fingerprint sensors in earlier phones from Japan where you kind of slide your finger on it it's about the size of a rectangle and you you honestly would need a little more real estate on there but again I just don't expect to see it this time maybe down the future down the road in the future it could happen but we'll see after our podcast yesterday the reaction in the YouTube comments was pretty big in regards to the to the facial recognition and one guy he actually had some good points rat-rod studios dr our customs limited I think that's like his car shop or something he said how would you unlock the iPhone if you had sunglasses on or contact lenses or you're outside in winter with a scarf and a hat so you're gonna have to like take all this stuff off him he's got some valid points though yeah take enough to remove clothing to unlock your phone possibly I think based on the algorithm that psy think though based on the algorithm finds sunglasses no but if they're using what they talked about skin tone facial recognition potential iris scanning recognition and movement to that you have a live face I've got imagine maybe a combination of let's say X number of data points from all of those combined is what will unlock your phone right so maybe you know find not your glasses but maybe it's your not your chin or anything or your cheekbones but if you can see like your eyes the fact that you're moving around the fact that you know who knows how the skin don't thing is I don't I don't think it's gonna be like you have to absolutely have a completely 100% pure face unlock we don't know what this is all speculation right which makes it fun but I think he makes a great point of like what exactly are the conditions to do it yeah that was a great Cohen thank you for that okay let's go to the next call last call actually hey B Chan Khong I love the show Lucas I'm from small town Cedar Rapids Iowa my phone call this week is in regards my current situation I have the iPhone 6s plus I'm on that upgrade your phone every year program and I was actually a little too upgraded March but I chose to hold out for this next iPhone the iPhone X and I'm starting to get a little concerned you know I see these these rumors that it's gonna be delayed till October November potentially I'm also seeing that a lot of people have been waiting to upgrade to this phone and I'm concerned that I'm gonna wait to upgrade to the next iPhone and I'm not even be able to get it till February March anyways which at that point maybe I should just get the seven plus now and then a year from now I can get the iPhone x16 I'm saying forget whatever the next one is even so what do you guys think I should do my wife has no help in this situation she doesn't she's not telling me anything so just let me know what you guys think about it and remember only you can prevent forest fires thank you smokey thank you I could tell you a way to prevent forest fires you can't call your wife out on the Apple bike because if she listens cuz I know she obviously totally listens to the show all the time clearly look I I've talked about this before I a lot of people that are on the one the every year iPhone replacement or upgrade program although you're on it typically from what I've seen and heard is that even though you're on that plan doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna get that new upgraded phone on day one of the launch yeah like it's been a lot of people said oh yeah I'm on the upgrade play but it it took a week or two before I even got it I mean it seems like if you're on the upgrade plan you should get it right away like you would think yeah like it's a trophy be like look I'm on the upgrade plan guys that's like incentive to sign up buddy you got a j1 buddy would think so you would think so but uh but now that isn't the case your second tier yeah you're you're there but you're your second tier so even so even if you wade out it doesn't mean you're gonna get it right off the bat if you do upgrade it now I don't know if it actually resets that one-year time period now I actually don't know the conditions of the program exactly to the T so either way if you wait it out you still may not get the phone when it comes out right away yeah and then there's a possibility they're not gonna have enough in stock like that's what happened at large yeah exactly the gross gold one was like gone like no one could find that and then they were settling for different colors they didn't want I unfortunately had to settle because I don't have they didn't have rose gold not I'm fine with my space grey yeah cool so alright I guess that's gonna do it for now that's it so look you know what if any of you complain about the show I'm gonna come back to you because we didn't even have to do it you no one's gonna complain people when you have complain no matter what yeah you can always have complainers we're on vacation I ain't got no complaints I'm soaking up the Aloha Sun baby oh man I'm so jelly I know I won't talk about any more so anyways thanks so much for hanging with us we will return after our break enjoy your time at work with your family with your friends I'm gonna be surfing the waves baby oh hello alright we'll see you guys next time thanks for hanging with us alone