Gadgetory

and welcome to the west-world morning after after show I'm Patrick I'm Lynne and I'm Caitlin and today we're talking about the west-world show season 2 episode 7 and like this episode like all other episodes we're going to talk about spoilers so if you don't like spoilers then you should leave because after all what's the pleasure of annoying a story if you can't discover the ending with for yourself very Anthony Hopkins of you thank you very forward no like it was very uncanny episode 7 is called less gotcha I'm sure I butchered that but it's French and it means the tormentors also there's a type of illustration where it's a drawing of the human body without the skin so we see a lot of that in like the opening credits of questworld the drones so it could mean that I think both could apply to this episode to be honest absolutely I think this episode was jam-packed jam-packed the pacing is crazy it's like super ramping up to obviously the climax and it's just like one after another after another I really like it but it's also the time is the time narratives are getting all it's hard to follow yeah the same so even harder to follow the only thing I like are the aspect ratio jumps that's the only thing that's like anchoring me the only way that you know you're in a different timeline slash area yeah but that doesn't even help me it does in a reality or in a digital world so that's like that's that's the visual representation one reality or another reality okay I think he had a good way of like dividing the timeline for this race so I developed a timeline split called before strand and after strength I felt like that's the most intuitive what because I keep thinking like every time I see him it gives me like I don't know what timeline it is but it gives me a current time finish no whenever I see any and that's what week that's what I think right now especially in this episode any time we saw Carl strand the one who arrives on the beach later big tall bald Delos tall bald l's guy who was from Vikings that bad I thought definitely visit I would go back I was a kid like all the Norse mythology well that would be awesome but they really believed the idea of product placement cuz he can have like a new can of coke and the other ones have old cans of coke or something to show like oh these are older versions we have none of that in the show no oh no timeline help all super jumpy but yeah so Karl strand is kind of a good barometer of like these things happen before he arrived on the beach and we saw Bernard wake up and these things happen afterward so like Bernard going into the cradle be s Teddy's getting bumped his aggression before strand but Teddy killing the guy pummeling him into the ground also before strand Oh Teddy yeah commando Teddy also before strand yeah so it gets very confusing it's very hard yeah it's very hard so to talk about this very hard episode let's instead ignore chronologically and just deal with story arcs so the biggest one that we want to unpack is Bernard Ford Arnold the cradle and the aspect ratio everything so it's huge it's exactly how we ended the last one Bernard going into the cradle and we ended it with some version of Bernard coming out yeah he says he's too soft yeah before towards mr. sock and then he also wants that's Ford's way of getting out of the cradle I think so I think this was a long-term ploy by Bernard to I mean by Ford to exit the cradle using Bernard oh absolutely his he knew with the creation of Delos like we saw in the previous episodes dello Stovall's almost immediately the first time he was ever recreated and brought out into a host body and Ford knows that that's what awaits him if he himself steps out of the cradle again in like a shell of his own by correct and so instead he kind of is using Bernard as like his chauffeur a Trojan horse no I mean honestly that's really what's going on but why isn't he why wouldn't I mean cuz Bernard is kind of devolving he's getting a little so why is it better for for for 2news kind of an already occupied host than just news his own chafing that's a really good question I I'm just from a performance standpoint I'm so happy to see Athey happens back yeah he's not in the shadows he's not just a voice he's actually there he's in the world that we saw last season or the idealized version of how the world should work and you know again he snaps the finger everyone stops you have all those Catchings and he has all those little phrases and little like poetic ways to explain something complex which I just that delights me so much or he taps the player piano to make it go we had the you know has all the weird sounds I don't do a good player piano impression that being said I think it's deep because we kind of get a glimpse as to how Bernard is different than what Delos is the big takeaway I had from that right and how the creation of Bernard was fostered in a different way yeah how he came about it separate from Delos with his body we see it when Ford's telling him in the the house that Arnold had built in the cradle actually he's telling him that you know this is where we brought you to like test you and we saw that last episode him and Dolores Dolores was testing his fidelity which seemed obvious at the time but now we know it went back even further four more years and we thought it did so my question is can other hosts test other hosts for fidelity if you it seems like kind of a feedback wicked Lily when they're testing for fidelity it's they're testing for the assessments right they're testing that that hosts consistency against their human counterpart but it wouldn't really be a hosts testing a house would be a hosts testing a uploaded human right okay so it's not hosts hosts it's half human being dusted by a hose because it kind of reminded me of like when we put Alexa and when we go home yeah and then we just made them talk to each other right I say it also remind me like the latest Blade Runner when they have the the character Kay played by Ryan Gosling has the baseline test that test reminded me a lot of what we saw with Delos but then we're seeing it flipped this time too and then you also have like Bernards kind of self-discovery to it I think Jeffrey Wright again such a big fan of his performances Bernard does so well not throughout the season but especially in this episode and with little things like when there's like fake waterboarding and like that is horrible and then you see him with excited to see for it but confused but then realized what's going on and then even when if he awakes from being in the cradle and they steal his head back up and like I don't know but then you know like hey everything's fine if something's missing from the cradle now we can get back in you know I just yeah this all the way he's reacts to that is great he's very good he's very good I also just feel bad for his character he's so confused he's being pushed in a million-two pulled in a million directions Charlotte wants something from him forward wants something from him and then he just wants to be nice to Elsie and yeah like not getting her in the crossfire Elsie you just want to go back to dental school yeah those are my favorite lives but I think think which is not a hard thing to get back into but I guess we're going for micro bajo stew like yeah you need a root canal sure yeah you know but I wonder like because we were saying that before that Elsie and Stubbs are kind of like the two human characters that you're like okay they're not the rich people they're not like the middle manager people but there were the ones who seemed to have the most morals and yet I just want good things to happen for them and the other character really want good things out before it's Bernard because it's just like well the VA point where his head is back to normal and I guess we're gonna find that next couple episodes yeah I'm excited to explore more of like the split personality of Bernard and Ford Ford kind of even takes over for Bernard when he like does what needs to be done and he kills the humans that are trying to you know rein in bernard he tries to not make him feel guilty right right this isn't your fault and then it's just like this kind of buddy-cop movie where they're just both shooting i think the board cares for him he wants to protect it well does he though because these children he's haunted by the blood stain of the woman he killed earlier right before it is like eye cream you and it's my it's my job to like guide you into this new age of enlightenment anything I just want to be my own person right and I think we're gonna see that split deepen as we move to exiting nobody likes a backseat host nobody now Ford get out here yeah but it also means Kathy Hopkins it's at least back for at least another episode hopefully so what is for it's like cult-like so now he's out of the cradle right it's out of the cradle does he now do they want to go to this valley beyond and is the valley beyond actually the outside world yeah I for a very long time I thought was outside world but I also heard that it could be where other data is saved yeah maybe yeah very possibly we saw way back when one of the original trailers we saw a man in black approaching kind of like a hole-in-the-wall type set up like a door the kind of looks like the exit or entrance at the Mesa very similar set up maybe that it leads to the valley beyond maybe that's a separate set of data or things like that or maybe you know that's a separate way to get to the key as we're now hearing more about it's because the key that was another thing yeah a burn a sees key right so that was another like really intense so scenes was both the jealous people and dalaras trying to get to the key yeah there was the touching father-daughter scene which was really nice there was the robot threatening to open up a human's head with a skull grinder so tall I didn't realize how much taller she is Oh Evan Rachel Wood yeah it's just like and it was kind of nice to see Charlotte Hales character for once kind of not have control also just same two strong women who are like leading their respective movements kind of going toe-to-toe we see another two strong women later when we have the mave Dolores scene and she's like almost asking to I want to put you out of your misery do you want help what help she's good she is all like there's no way you would have ended up here without a fight oh yeah but she's like bye but now that you're here like I can help you yeah no no no I'm good thank you like Tessa Thompson and Charlotte Hale I feel like it's fear because they love her as an actress and I like the character but I'm still waiting for like that little glimmer of like oh you're not just a horrible person because she's still a pretty horrible person I think she is just a plain old horrible person and that is her character I'm not saying she doesn't have feelings and emotions and oh she does but her drive is never gonna be that altruistic I'm trying to help someone like her Drive is very obviously she wants this data and she wants to take it out of the park and it's how do I do that how do I get there period that's my onedrive what I enjoyed wakes what Stubbs who gave her a hard time like us above your paygrade it's like well hey I'm gonna race right now like I just want to buy money to Adam I know without this guy's brain he's like okay let's just shoot it well I thought like it would have been smart of Dolores just to shoot his brains Abernathy's brains out too because I feel like if she got the key they would be just following her around and if she just wants freedom then she should just like trash the encryption key and then just yeah maybe we do she wants more than freedom take his control unit actually his entire light bulb out of his head yeah and kind of man I don't understand why she kept YouTube and be like it's over everyone leave me alone there was there was a shot later when she's talking to maven she looks down at it and yeah great we're projecting her own emotion on it but it felt like it was almost like a not regretful but like is this the right move kind of moment for Dolores maybe she's just really wants like revenge on Delos so she's gonna keep it C and use it as leverage for something in the future even know what it may be I think it's like going back to earlier season to talk about man in black and Ford versus Ford so there's that aspect looking for a door and we obviously you need a key for the door so what is this door yeah way too many door metaphors I don't get it it's like the next episodes gonna be about the knob that the king of India and then the safety chain so there's a lot that happened there's a lot of violence and I'm wearing a gloss over a little bit but I just want to give like to like tip the Hat clever time oh I know in her blaze of glory I did a lot better than the other one Manjula yeah that was like it really it's just kind of slowed down the episode I'm like what is going I love that why did why did it slow down for you it was just really long I kind of get where I was going actually I just thought I thought she was gonna put him in the thing and just like impale him and not blow each other up but it was just like this long subducting seducing thing and I'm like the guy is so stupid well that's why I joined it cuz it's like the guy's stupid like kill her you're going to die and then she like no and I was like oh my god idiot well I think too it's a perfect metaphor for like how the hosts are trying to escape like they could easily brute force these humans and instead they're just trying to live and survive and yeah sometimes that means that some of them are gonna use their feminine wiles to trick someone the flipside like yeah not to talk too much about Angela but earlier we see her sneak up and do like she's like the knife man versus like I feel like clementines just like gun gun gun and then you have Teddy who's like headshot every time Bam Bam Bam yeah one-shot wonder teddy which I think it's kind of literally if you're like the violence choreographer on West world I mean though the each of them has a story and you see the you have a different fighting yes way and even with Angela is definitely the spy and just yesterday so you got that vibe but then when they blow up again not to go back to Fight Club it didn't have that into Fight Club moment when all the credit card buildings are blowing up it's just like because the Tessa Thompson Charlotte Hale says oh wow well there goes your we have your backups and as long as we have that you don't go anywhere and then it blows up and it's like and Dolores goes we didn't want those anyway tell me yeah that's not what I was here for literally what was tying me to this place it's a chain yeah yeah what's good I thought that was funny we have all your back gave it I don't want it give it crap yeah okay so other people got shot Maeve and man in black yeah Danny buck I shut a lot Lauren this guy will not die honestly I feel like he meets to win an award and I don't like this guy might be secretly a host I'm kidding I'm not at their own yeah that's a very prominent theory it's like this Star Wars thing when they the guards can't shoot straight stormtroopers yeah and I'm alike like all the stormtroopers can we clone one can skew straight yeah the houses of that we can chuck a million times I anticipated the daughter saving him but she never came home but that was a great reveal because I think they knew we were anticipating and then you saw the hand like as Emily but also very cool that may could not touch him yes I am very confused about the consistency about when her powers can work and when I think she is too but he did touch him not in the way we're thinking with the mesh network thing she touched him do an exact same thing Angela did to the other guy definitely manipulating his emotion and manipulating she just made him remember really what I meant like he was gonna shoot her but he was like think really hard reminded like going at it that way versus oh she was just supremely persuasive precisely I know what's a good I think it was a good question to it because I was like why hasn't Lawrence stopped and questioned his like why are you following this guy right yeah but I guess people are kind of into their loops it's like why Teddy and Dolores are always kind of together and Maeve is back with our daughter it's like you're kind of drawn towards your loop anyways and maybe Lawrence just didn't stop and think like why am I always following right and we hear some of that in the cradle too that you know if that's if they're supposed to be the they're always consistent that's why when something does ask you they find a way to get back to that consistent behavior or that consistent output outcome is made back on her own loop we were questioning this before cuz she was back in the cabin or the homestead the man in black shows up again and she is all like you he's like you what are you doing here and everyone's just like converging once again it's very strange yeah I like that he was there and he wasn't even looking for he's just like looking around the house he's like oh yeah it's yeah yeah okay stop this game forward and she's like what the fuck are you talking I'm not fair dude I'm my own host I also kind of got like the maybe it's like a predestination thing where second no matter what you do no matter how many changes you have in your life you're still gonna have the same out there are certain things yeah that will always happen so let's talk to me and for a second there when he got shot it I was I that moment I just I didn't want her to die yet I wasn't ready for that but then one of my other favorite months that happened right after that was when Lee's like no no we need we need her she's special right her head there's like a turning point that's happened for Lee and I didn't mean to talk too much about well I think the similarity to is actually between Maeve and Lee in that position is very similar to season 1 episode 10 Dolores in Teddy's arms where Lee is like very lovingly like he's picked up supporting her neck with one hand and he's grabbing her with the other and you're very much like oh she's kind of like oh hello this is weird I hope she doesn't die I'm gonna be really sad and upset if things just be was gone the way she has these crazy powers right unlocked so many achievements but he doesn't he could have just let her die though I mean right he's wonder why yeah he even says no no not this one we need her what does he need her for is it kind of like Dolores hinted at do they need her because they're gonna take her code and kind of use it to defeat the other hosts are they going to use it to investigate that mesh network and those powers as we call them that that may have has I think there's a lot of questions and I think too as we see Lily kind of hide from the Dolores and Maeve conversation I think even he realizes like what am I doing with her like why was i inclined to save her what was my goal what was I gonna was I gonna save her yeah we're gonna let her go after I patch her up was I just gonna release her back into the West there is in my mind a parallel with the work that Lee's doing and discovering this with Maeve four character has was doing with bernard to where there's a poetry to this it's not just writing storylines and like great little quip for them to say an old-timey slang you know I don't know so that was in crafting the whole yeah and there's a reason that he's surviving I don't know why he's surviving but out of anyone I what do you think he would have survived this long good anywhere really me neither but I'm interested to see how it plays out him I'm I think he's changed already I think he's already his perception and his you know drives have shifted from me me me money money money - oh my god there's a whole big other world both here and out there he's where Felix is like season 1 episode yeah but I think on the flip side like but there's limits to what Felix can do and I think Lee has more power and more authority just for me and then just like emotionally like his affection for her only like just like buying into realizing this kind of love nothing for this like affection for these hosts like Felix had that with me again she's in what he's like he's like good finally catching up it's yeah it'll be interesting to see where think what about mana black though because then we see him kind of like having fire four or five of these shots that seem to hit him and then there was the one in the belly which he looks like that would be the death one and he's kind of off to the side there what do we think is going on with him well first he hid from the commandos who were there to save them potentially I mean I know Lee called them in they were really there to like capture Maeve and take Lee to safety but that was the man in black to take it out or ticket to survival if he really wanted to take it I think he wants to die in the park I yeah like Emily said I think this is his death wish his final three he's having fun I mean can I see this though like going back to the Ford and Bernard thing they're talking about how they're doing this to learn about all the ways humans react to that who's been in the park the longest yep Williams so you're man in black so you think that the file on him has gotta be really Wow so I mean and I'm not to say there are theories about him possibly being a host which it could be that he would be the most realistic one because there's probably no one else that we've seen that's been in the park this long literally decades of loops and information at least three us B's like 128 games yeah yes we got a life right here but moving on where our always will happen hopes for the next episode or the next few episodes well we got a look at the next episode we know we're gonna see this side which I am hopeful answers a lot of the outstanding questions from the first season the seasons have never touched upon all the seasons we have two seasons worth of cash had a very long list about most nation and it's just like why is Maeve doesn't why does Maeve witchcraft doesn't work with them why do they have mazes under their skulls why do they speak a language no one else knows but the daughter knows that the man in black because she spent time with that yeah why has no one else spend time with okay say this like what about the characters we didn't see in this episode because I feel like we didn't see Emily we didn't see Sylvester or Felix or we didn't see armistice or the lady with a dragon tattoo so obviously there is still a little bit of our existing story that might get resolved and then on top of that we have the preview which I'm really excited about the tre looked amazing and then we just have lots of little thematic things like even if now we found a ferret a little bit of a puzzle that they're using this for the humans like why what is Delos get out of this does it go back to the original like West world in the future world with they're trying to like replace politicians with these hosts and stuff like that I mean or who knows was a board that said you know DOS was a businessman he's not gonna invest in something that's just for himself he's not an idiot so it's not about the clothes it's not I don't think it's not about him it's about the clones but we need to be thinking more economically like how is that gonna benefit Delos and his company and his lineage as a business right I could just as much data it's just all there's they're collecting all this data so they could just give you more targeted beer ads well yeah look at today people collect our data to not just target ads but also to predict our movements and think about what it is that we want and you know that level of prediction gives any company a leg up in selling you shit but if you could actually going I'm gonna replace Caitlyn with a Caitlyn host and use that to manipulate somebody in the real world that is where the a lot of those thumb attic lines metaphorical lines and a cue lines start realizing I don't have to get that far in this season but does make it starts getting that bigger world as we see I like that there we're not seeing everything I like that we okay so that being said thanks for sitting in and listening to us jibber-jabber about Westworld if you want to find out more about Westeros cnet.com slash clicking on that subscribe button hit the bell for notifications to make it ring you can also ask us questions on twitter i matric Holland I'm at Lin law I'm miss CP and with our invisible dreams we can toast Maeve and love you guys clunk their problem how do mine sir she's not dead so we shouldn't we also host that we can also toast an actual dead like Clementine you know let's pour one out for Clementine and one after Angela yeah and the thousands of humans have died well done in lines and Lawrence Flynn I feel like you just pulled your poor dear whole drink that was like airman bitch yeah I got to do