Gadgetory

hurry welcome to the west-world morning after after show I'm Patrick I'm Caitlin I'm Lin and we're CNET editors who loved the show Westworld today on our show we get to talk with actor Jimmy Simpson who plays the character William and I'm going to make a really simple cocktail and we're gonna recap season 2 episode 4 the rid of the Sphinx and if you don't like spoilers you should walk away now because we're gonna go deep into it because the woman is the daughter I couldn't hold it I didn't super call it but it was the episode before when she was just like surviving and shooting everybody I was like damn this girl's resourceful I was like what is this like this world's woman in black yeah I've been team Emily the whole time and I didn't know her name was Emily so I was like oh she's kind of like the woman in khaki because he's in khaki she's his exact opposite we have him in the black she's all in the white and the khaki oh yeah you ain't going on there exactly there's gonna be two halves of the same whole fighting too like they burn it down destroy the park I thought she wanted to save it though cuz she's like I don't want to leave this place she doesn't want to leave I thought the same thing I thought she was kind of like good it'd be like the antidote to his poison you know it just seems like she says in the scene with the ghost nation a lot of people ignore their narrative and I don't like other people yeah so what did that mean I like when she said I didn't kind of I was like I think it means it's just that she spent time with the ghost nation she learned their language she's the first person we've ever seen who knows how to speak their language I know at first I was like how is she's not that quick of a learner and I was like how did she learn in that time being captive but but if that means that she likes the hosts then doesn't that mean she wants to save them well maybe she thinks that they have you know transcended into actual consciousness and she wants to save them by alleviating their pain by killing them there's a lot of what-ifs there but also I think the fact that now we have the man in back who's playing obviously against Ford is he is here like a an allied with him is she an obstacle is had she been manipulated by Ford to play against them but you know what my mouth's a little dry right now and I think before we continue let's wet our whistle with a little Caitlyn cocktail corner so for this episode where we learn a lot of new information about papadelis we decided to make a whiskey nothing fancy it's exactly what it sounds like we're gonna use some scotch whiskey this time since the man who plays dillos Peter Mullan is Scottish I know and we're gonna pour that over ice that's it like I said nothing fancy oh holy smokes literally holy smokes there's a bonfire and my mouth is it's a really good PD scotch all right now that we're gonna okay now that we have had our drinks let's get talking about Westworld again so as I mentioned in my cocktail corner a lot of this episode dealt with papadelis as we call him lovingly played by peter mullan and we really get to the meat of who he is who it he's a Rolling Stone fan definitely Rolling Stone fan which I appreciate I really enjoy but we really see his relationship with William will kind of grow and develop literally over the years we have young Jimmy Simpson than old graying Jimmy Simpson who still looks really young who still and then we have Ed Harris who papadelis doesn't actually even recognize when he first comes in right yeah makes you think there's obviously a lot of time that's passed something also right the beginning that first shot it reminded me like wow we're in a Wes Anderson movie now we got the Rolling Stones playing we got like the crazy geometric shape playing and the one tracking shot and it was just really like disorienting in a really great way like what is going on the tone was different you feel that the opening was different than all the other episodes I really appreciate that about this season this episode was the first one that Lisa joy has ever directed I really liked that we jumped around and that's one of the timelines is what we see with papadelis him in this little cubby apartment what do we commissioned yeah this fishbowl a beautiful modern furniture if it was in San Francisco that's like a five million dollar place right at least at least five ok burn like $5 and then burn him like Gattaca style like that's fine but I don't know why you have to take away the furniture and all those vinyls well I would bet that they don't know what was affecting him so I can't take any chances right cuz they say that he's Duvall vineet I'm so the Rolling Stones is what's making it evolve so that's the one timeline another timeline we see is also with the man you know we were talking alright so with the older man in black he's doing this other timeline with lawrence / alo'so but in this timeline is lawrence and he's basically i love this because it starts with a scene that is familiar with the first season where they set him across from his old boy they're sitting across the table in his old town he's taking out his bullets and we've seen this scene before where he's mastered this level he even knows how many bullets he needs to use but he actually gets kind of knocked off on his feet by the Confederate oohs and in the end the Confederate oohs basically just take this village hostage for their weapons and the man in black saves lawrence his wife and his kid because of all these flashbacks that you see of him seeing his wife suicide in real life and it's just kind of funny because the man in black actually killed his wife and kids the season before it so now he's narratives yeah lawrence last season he killed his wife and kids Lawrence's oh my kids so many times he didn't even care about it anymore and then now he's like oh maybe I shouldn't but then Lord calls him out it's like just because you did one nice thing doesn't mean I forget who you were oh man that moment is so creepy awesome because like this that little girl basically and she comes up to him and there's definitely a Robert Ford tone versus when he goes back to the family it's her accent - she doesn't have an accent Texas Ford absolutely she switches into Papa and a little but so we were speaking of like things were seeing outside we interview the actress last week Shannon Woodward and we were all joking like man we haven't seen her in any episodes of season are they just messing with us is it just like hey she's back but she's back we got to see I like I like her character she was the only one who's like something screwy's going on in Della's and she was just like I'm just gonna go down there in this dark basement and figure it out but she also had a lot of reverence for the host - which I appreciate it like she didn't treat them like meat or she wasn't really super scared of that last season yeah even with Bernard like I mean she's definitely pissed off at him but then she takes care of him keeps him at arm's distance literally but I think that's interesting and she feels like probably the most human of the human characters at least we've seen this season so at least the most human that I want to identify or yeah she's on screen I feel a little bit safe like okay things can't you know she's not a super evil person you know I hope and then so whenever she's on screen um it's like someone she's basically kind of us but more capable and smarter we really she's been in this cave for a while now because she didn't even know that Ford has been killed the timeline is very screwy it seems like she was taken there by Bernard when she went down into that basement she was taken there right then more or less you through some protein bars in there yeah which could have been conceivably just a few days or maybe a day before the party in the uprising right and now we are at least 12 days past the uprising so she may have been there for two weeks it's a lot of protein bars a lot of water needed to wait and then my other question she drank yeah she's a scientist she could probably figure out a way to do it God I survived you just gotta do what you gotta do she was changed you couldn't go in you know I yeah and there's nothing but like and then Bernard comes along opens this door to the back door and she's like what the I've been here for like 12 days I didn't know it looks like a hotel elevator looks so nice and like shiny the little moment before that there actually was something it's not a big moment it was badass no either see Clementine doing her thing each I want to drag someone you get Clementine man but is it this coincidental that he was dropped off at this cave or do you think that Clementine knew that LC was in there well he said that Ford kind of put him here he Ford wanted me to see this and through Clementine he was she was probably I mean for like Clementine was probably instructed by Ford to drag him there drop them off and but what's he basing that on me oh I don't know well I'm basing it on right Bernard saying that yeah I think Bernard believes that I think he believes that this is entirely Ford's game and that Ford coated everything and it's all just madness and everybody's super off their rails but to really think Ford did it I don't know and and it's one of the things I don't know if we need to know it but it is even if it's like a very like Shakespeare and coincidence like hey I just happened to be here and here's the person that I put here and she hates me and she but at the same time out of anyone to be discovered there that's probably the person Barnard needs most to get back on his feet and they get like the cortical fluid and all that stuff there is a poignant scene where he's kind of talking to Elsie and convincing her to help him where he's like everything I've done has been not under my control but this is the first time I'm making my own decision so please help me so he half knows that Ward is pulling some strings but he's also realizing that for the first time ever he's kind of doing things on his own and you feel bad for him because she's like I I don't trust you yet and he's like me neither I wanted trust me for now please trust me and I'm sorry for choking you out before oh man and Geoffrey right again I just as performance is just so vulnerable and beautiful I just I love this character level playing this character and then great but so we literally have now we have another human and host team if you have Bernard and Elsie now we have buddy cop but then we have Maeve and Simon man in black and Lauren man in black and Laurence Dolores doesn't have a house I mean a human yeah so again we have these humans pairing up a post technology and humanity and speaking of that we got to talk to the actor Jimmy Simpson who plays William about technology and humanity as well as some other interesting things in Westworld I love I love as mom I love the guys who have been kind of telling the future for a while and burger is one of them you Mary Shelley is kind of one of them and it's like it's just uh we were right now in that spot before humanity makes a decision on a request Blade Runner or you know are we going to find create an actual like utopian like the only way we can do it is in my opinion is by evolving first of all America as this you know capitalist you you try to grab a smash-and-grab which is what America was based on smash grab your properties ask yours and then we've never really straight from that and so there's there's just an element of grand empathy that's going to need to occur and it here hearing the voices of many and feeling ourselves even more and it just needs to find in our civilization because right now we really are in like a king of a hill situation and if we perpetuate that I believe yeah well we'll head towards West World II Blade Runner re-type existence unfortunately but because it's like you know when there is so much technology it's a pool I know there's going to be wizards evil wizards and good witches and we just want to keep the good witches with more of the control or you know place give it to to them it right now it's not green we need witches what are we doing when do we lose ourselves when uh you know you see the shift from the importance in someone's life from what they've experienced a book they read a tree they walked beneath whether it's pharaoh or some millennial versus the existence they have now on Facebook and like why did this person respond or like my thing and brother though and it's this alternate reality that that people are really cool with jumping in on and feeling like feeling the feelings of reality through these artificial mediums and I think if we continue to gratify ourselves in that way and we keep shedding each other out on a more personal level I think we are bound to just extinction so the hands down hands down it would be this role I played named soldier and the Sundance show happened Leonard he was the onion wild man I've ever played and he was he would have just torn it up the best possible way he would've a look like um I bet he would have just had a ball in a way that I couldn't even fathom myself having but it's like he's the kind of man the place is built for um think they um Lisa has been really great about sharing because it was such a shift and I was a little you know I would ask for any information and Lisa was was kind to just at least give me give me context for the scene like because the story is larger than they give it to us in pieces and I think it's by design and by a pretty beautiful design um they they kind of keep us as actors giving the performances um necessary to kind of see their vision through and she yeah I don't know the entire story Willie but like I wish I wish I knew a little bit more but I feel like I was given enough to know what the stakes were of each game to know where he was when we picked up with him and how he felt about you know the park and specifically like Dolores the last time he saw them so I had I had enough to before I started to play like what was happening but still each thing comes with each script so it wasn't like this is what's happening for this season it was this was what's happening now my favorite one is that it's like in space and the earth is actually long exploded that there are people I think there I read somewhere so even though human don't know that their world they're on its fabricated so it's like layers and layers layers like a like plant cells but it's also pretty cool all right so you just heard Jimmy Simpson talking about his favorite theory it's that you know we've destroyed everything or we've gone to another planet - kind of a variation it's that we ruined the earth so much that mother nature like kicked us off we did ball it like abandon it and we tried to make a life make living and another planet something like that we terraformed another area of the universe I buy it it's better as long as it's not it was all a dream ah yeah that would be lame yeah so it did again deals with death and destruction much like a lot of this episode dealt with mortality yeah a big theme in this episode is mortality we could see it in the title the riddle of the Sphinx we're not gonna explain it you could google it it's really popular it's kind of like it's not a really great riddle I don't think maybe because there's no play on words or maybe it is but it's because it's in Greek but it just look it up it's about Oedipus and yeah it's like boring but anyways riddle the Sphinx mortality huge theme and you can see it in one of the my favorite quotes that man in black sizes everyone's not meant to live forever people aren't meant to live forever and I'm gonna use a anime reference so don't judge me like a anime reference morning anime reference morning but in Ex there was the same question was posed like why should people live forever and it's like no people don't live forever because that's what makes life important is because when people die it makes their life important if people live forever nothing is important and you can really see that with Delos and he's um he's like trying to hold on to his legacy trying to hold on to what he thinks is he's losing through death and man in black is like no yeah you're gonna die well you are also talking about how man in black is kind of when he's talking to Craddock he's well you know you haven't met death yet yeah and because the one thing is if the host can be turned off by being shot or injured but they go back online they get off line and go back on line but obviously humans can't do that now mana black is truly fighting for his mortality and I think it's interesting that he's reflecting on the mortality of papadelis who tried to extend his mortality past death and it keeps on ending up literally in a dumpster fire and it just gonna make you a question like if you upload your memories if they kind of build your body and duplicate it and have all your memories and your dreams and personality is that really you we know that it's not really him because he's aware he's a robot he's like oh I guess I didn't make it that's why he breaks down you know but you know would you if that was an option would you guys want to do that I don't know I feel like it's and not taking nor the question completely but it feels like those ones where people freeze like their heads and hope that science will someday catch up to put their brain into that psyche yeah and like Ted Williams the baseball player but it feels like a teep but also like who are you to be the one to say that hey I deserve to come back I'm so important I've come back but I don't know I don't think I would I think I would just enjoy getting old I always think of the play as you like it Shakespeare has that great speech jQuery says where all the world's a stage and we go through the seven stages of life going from a baby growing into a man falling in love and then turning but I don't think I would you that's actually part of Peter Abernathy's past narrative just as we're discussing later later he was the professor who actually taught a new Shakespeare and that was his you know his that was what he taught was Shakespeare as the professor as one of his narratives underneath there and so it's really interesting that you say that because seems like maybe Peter Abernathy is gonna come back one of the larger theories out there is that James dello says brain or his you know control unit as we saw Bernard kind of slip into his pocket he's in Peter Abernathy and that's what was encrypted in his brain that's why it was so huge that's why he had such a thinly veiled narrative over it that's why they wanted him out of the park is that the same thing than what arnold bernhard i mmm Bernard all to kind of grab this a little red light bulb that's what we think but is it that's just a few wait and then why would they want his memories back why would they want Delos back that's I'm saying like what what is the advantage very valued as Delos have I think part of it plays into how we've seen him kind of evolve from the first time we saw him talking to William in the episode he was three days in he kind of learned he was a robot he just shut down right and that was the first time there to burn it down the next time we see him he lasted seven days okay the next time we see him with Ed Harris it's the 149th trial billed yeah thank you and 35 days 35 days so he's getting further and further from the point of consciousness and still surviving theoretically the idea being that if they can keep him at a stable level they will have achieved that immortality that we're talking about and as they're doing this we learned that Bernard has slipped someone else's control unit their brains in effect into his pocket and walked out with it is it Delos is it a whole new person all right board I thought it was born I thought it was for two but then I I'm sorry good you saw this board yeah why is fort more valuable though oh because he's them he's the guy behind it he's building it he's coding it Delos is just like the investor he's just concerned of his legacy and that's why he wants to live forever because she was like you're gonna take the company I built - William men in black he was like you're gonna be with my family all this stuff it's like yeah because people died it's okay that's why people inherit things and that's why you sign a bunch of wills and get have a bunch of lawyers but he's like no I want to keep my company forever yep yeah and it's like he's like the the Hair Club for Men where's like I'm not only owner I'm also a member it's like I'm not only not only did I buy our product to live forever I'm actually proof that it works that would be an impressive sale but who has the money to do that because I keep I'm thinking about this a long every Westworld goes on is it cost so much money to go to this park and then out of that let's say they're in the top 5% is there like a one person's like I want to live forever and again do we want those people to live forever yes guess one of the theories I also heard was that the reason why they're getting DNA and all these information is that all the super rich people who can afford to go to West world wants to may be either clone themselves or maybe are unwillingly being cloned so do we want the top 1% 2d clone I don't know I don't think so like you said not always the best group of humans we see that example of that in this episode with the humans that ghost nation has taken yeah that is that was a much more touching scene than I thought it could not be that was no it was beautiful because they were showing that the there are hosts that have restraints yeah but now you pointed out the one of the ghosts nature members we've already seen them before yeah Zane McLaren on the one who whispers and Stubbs's ear he was actually one of the who was the man who was giving Logan the pitch for Argus initiative and he looked badass by the way went huge you're like who is that guy he's got power yeah and a seat that he comes up and he had one of my favorite lines you only live as long as the last person who remembers you and so going back to papadelis going back to William it seems like William is the last person who remembers papadelis womp-womp who cares I really like about what Everson because yes ELLs Lee said a really good line she's like I'm gonna die just to some rich guy lives forever and I totally get that because it's like all these people are suffering because some rich dude was like I want to live forever and he's sad that you know people are forgetting but but don't you think about like your relatives make grandparents or great-grandparents like we're all here because of other people who most of which we've not met and yet it's such a fleeting thing if we don't think about them and we try to like remember things to pictures he tried to run things for video now but most of the people who brought us here didn't have those advantages to be remembered by what if the legacy of the future is your host if there is only a modern thing where I could upload my identity every day every moment constantly for people to judge on I just don't think it's a year of me right like I don't want the zanga livejournal version me being uploaded in middle school I want like maybe now I don't want that kind of version of me grow wait what if tea could be like yeah I want middle school in and I want 25 year old blue hey that's the other thing like papadelis being that age or like i would be i if i was remade into a robot I'd be 25 year old me yeah I think most people maybe they had a dichotomy between his like you know we're all like oh I wish I knew when I was 12 what I know now or whatever maybe that's the problem they put him in a pre sickness body trying to make him younger or better and that's what caused him to devolve so let's talk very quickly a favorite moment slam what was your favorite moment my favorite moment was when William gives papadelis the transcript of what they were just saying one because I kind of called it and then I was like oh I bet it's what exactly they were saying and two cuz it kind of reminded me of a thirty rock scene where it's Liz Lemon and Jack and they actually hand each other what the other person's got to say but only because they're really good friends but not because one's a robot and the other ones trying to cure him or anything make you mention three rock was on now the amount of material they would have like a wealth of parents social media oh my god what are you what is your favorite Kevin kind of the whole episode it's the amount of information we learned here about Delos as a company about what they want to do they answered so many questions in this episode and open the door to a bajillion more in such a great way what's your favorite okay this is such a nerdy thing I like how they did the we seem flashback to before us and especially in the first episode of season 2 but I liked how we had Bernard trying to remember how they did those cuts where he'd be in a room and they had the flicker and then it was him in the room and it's earlier or later or whenever and he's not sure I hadn't seen that style in the show before and that being said thanks for joining us today with our episode if you like what you see you could subscribe or click the like button it is also checkout cnet.com so that's West world and if you have questions you can tweet at us I'm at Rick Holland that's my name without the first two letters I'm at miss CP don't forget to leave comments we're happy and that being said I hardly have me left here but let's give it to soups we toast you this week - Emily - Emily