Gadgetory

welcome to the West world good morning after after show I'm Patrick I'm Lin and we are big fans of the show West world and editors here at scene that today we're gonna be talking about season 2 episode 8 and if you're anything like me and you hate spoilers you should leave right now because we're gonna spoil a lot of stuff on this episode Patrick obviously hasn't watched it yet I don't know what he's doing on this show okay so you don't like spoilers you're out by kicks Ouya is the name of this episode and in Lakota means remember which i think is so spot-on for this episode it's great just to give like a quick little recap this is probably one of the most linear episodes we've ever seen for plus I really want to say yay to that yeah I always felt like the most relaxed and the whole thing like I wasn't just trying to figure out the whole time what was going on yeah and there's also I think allowed more like the emotions to really hit you subplot Barnardo's that triple bernard from two timelines I know you have one main character and you're following him the whole time we then at the end of it all kind of learn that akka cheetah akka kita I mean that's what she we're like but so okay is we're going to call him know is we learn explaining his history and how he has discovered the outside world essentially how he woke up to Mays I feel like the way he discover the outside world was parallels Mays except it was like more abridged and shortened and especially the stuff where you know he had to kill himself and realize I think that's how he gets out to find a loved one I was like oh this reminds me of made when she was like multiple times killing herself definitely definitely another similarity they're both rooted in love they are both so strongly because of the love of another host and we see that in our Chi story he you know gets ripped from his love he kind of sort of wakes up and discovers there's this alternate world and then because of that Ford rewrites his programming and makes him more like mindless Killi and so he goes and gets Killi and then starts to realize wait wait wait something's off something's different and she discovers or you know still has the memory of the maze in his mind so then he sees his wife at camp or his past life wife Kohana and it really all starts to come back to him he remembers loving her he remembers being with her he remembers all the times they would talk and stay together and he actually kidnaps her not the best way that you know someone by the way if you feel like someone is kind of familiar to you don't sneak at night into a tent and be like come with PS you know PS and it's okay you know me it's fine like don't do that it's like I didn't know why he couldn't just kind of took her aside in the morning time in a non-threatening way and be like hey I think you know we might have known each other but they also like you see him like washing literally washing his character off washing off the destination to kind of come back to him but it was but it's like why not when you're clean wasn't like right now hey I showered yeah I'm good hand her a note maybe a or B do you like what your yeah but I thought that was it was beautiful but also haunting he kidnaps her he kind of brings her into his I don't want to call it a reverie because it actually is probably the precursor to the reveries that Ford gives everyone else it is it like a bug then I don't think so I think that you know we learn in this episode that he is called alpha 2 which could like lend credence to the idea that he is the second host ever after Dolores you know he was in the same model as Angelo we see him pitching the company to William and Logan in the earlier a much earlier episode and I think that his awakening is probably a true awakening you know he has really discovered by virtue of really not dying for someone the outside world and these humans these others that are around him ford also said that he built him to be more curious yeah but then I just don't see like how that curiosity leads to basically a whole upheaval of Ford's code he's like oh I didn't read it be that curious I'm doing everything but he doesn't seem upset about it either like Ford does not seem that angry when he's like oh you weren't supposed to do this he seems really intrigued and he tells him okay well next time you see the Death Bringer kill me you'll know it's time to gather your people and then we see okay after our present day gala finding Ford realizing what it means and you know entering that next phase and he's like I said again all describing all this to Maeve through her daughter which I didn't really realize until the end and I still was a little bit confused because there were some point in time where I was like whose memories are these because there was a lot of Maeve and her daughter and in the last episode showed that her daughter kind of was her her mother's role was supplanted by this other like Maeve 2.0 so I was like who are we thinking through who are we seeing through because shouldn't the daughter have more memories of the other mother you might the new mom new me but apparently these are not her memories they're probably Maeve's memories we were probably watching Maeve and okay you know line up their timelines and say hey here's my story and I wasn't there to harm you I was there to like watch you I was there a big misunderstanding right I was there to like help you wake up and that's exactly what is this was a huge misunderstanding by virtue of him kind of adopting that kilee persona and it's interesting that Maeve you know kind of how did she know to talk to him through her daughter like did he know that she could control them so he called to her and she now also knows Lakota to like this was a good recent development she yeah she developed that in the last couple episodes - yeah I think that goes back to last episode when we saw me being shot and grabbed by the troops that we were wondering where allow all the other people he had seen the previous episode were and that imagine that he's seeing this going on he's grabbed the daughter to protect her all the things that we don't know at the time because we see his point of view this whole episode but I also think that might be a little bit why he wants to get in contact with her the whole episode is like providing context to how the Lakota tribe has been the whole time yeah I mean it's a Razzie of this play by Tom Stoppard Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead which kind of has the gimmick of being Hamlet told through the two guys we get killed in Hamlet like midway through Grant it's more of a comedy than that but I love that it just gives instantly this empathy to ghost nation and hockey and his role and it does it in such a beautiful way and we're seeing the same themes and the same kind of mysteries we see all throughout West world but this done it's such a more poetic way I think maybe because of that that's at least for me it was a lot more emotional and it was definitely I would have no problem sighs definite my favorite episode would you prefer that it happened sooner do you think it's necessary to be this late into West world I mean we're almost 20 episodes in at this point no it's a good question because I've been thinking that too like if I were to show someone who'd never seen West world one episode it might be this one I feel like you get a little bit enough grant there's a lot of spoiler stuff and that would be horrible but just to show someone like hey not seeing this show this would be the episode because I think it just brings you in so so simply but elegantly and there's just a poetry I mean and it's a love story not only between I think the host like okay and Kohana but also between Maeve and her daughter but also between Ford and those hosts which whether that's a god-like love or whatever but then in real life we also have Lea and Maeve which we see like me even at leas doing the crappiest job saving her he's like I thought he could have done it one episode earlier and he's like no please you know protect her and he's like and they already flayed her yes like oh you had a little blood now you have more blood like you're doing a really bad job yeah you're terrible right now I mean whatever your intentions are but he also seems like his power is has been minimized in this hierarchy that's back all he's been doing is like sneaking into the lab and being told to go away yeah I mean striking - there's one scene when it's shooting her from her right and you can just see her jugular vein pulsing under the flayed skin and muscle and I was like wow that's super creepy and really awesome yeah whoever's doing the makeup on this one is like tremendous yeah and it was it's very creepy but also think it visually just shows you how like not to say she's on life support he's not really alive but she's blinking and she's like responding and still really like unnerving to see that yeah it's like there's obviously she is just a few moments away from having everything go away but at the same time there that is of interest to the Delos people because what's the line they say like she's the only one who has admin access right now yeah that's pretty up yeah and then at the end so as akka has given her this whole his life story he kind of tells her like don't worry we will take care of your daughter I promise I'm sorry we couldn't save you if you live come back join us get with your daughter and we don't I mean die well good luck bye um also like this talking a little bit about taking a minor character if you can I try to imagine another show I can't think of one that's taking a minor character and featured it featured him or her so predominantly and also the actors a MacLennan has always been that character actor you see in lots of TV shows the one for me that stuck out was season two of Fargo he plays the amazing character very badass character but also has some equal moments where he gets more screen time than you think a character like that normally would but to give a whole episode to an actor as talented as him and to all the actors who play in Ghost Nation I think is just not only cool but like wow there's so much more to be explored just in the characters you already have in West world let alone before we add in things like Shogun world and all those other things yeah I love it I don't even want like one episode I want like all five more episodes of you like I feel it is kind of it is great that they do you know devoted one episode but I hope it's you know it's not like a chief it's just like oh well here's one we have one a Shogun world I hope it gets more integrated as the season the two episodes left or maybe the next season two progresses just to have more like equal wait because like as yours we want to see more of these characters and I feel like wine up is some may not be enough cuz it's so good and it's like so yeah and the scene in the cold storage that was I think the more and I was the most touching scene between any to like I remember we were sad between Dolores and the father but I was such a salsa like well these are all scripted lines it's not really you know I wasn't really super feeling it was sad but no but like Peter he responded like even though they were scripted lines it was like he knew her he was able to like give back some of the emotion that she was giving I think that's difference between that watching two characters who are playing host being programmed to share that emotion which was powerful but I'm with you the moment in cold storage with the Nirvana cover like that he doesn't realize that they basically even though she's physically here have made her completely disappeared yeah and I feel like also like Dolores still has like a lot of power and where she stands and she still has a lot of things to do but with the with him in cold storage it's just there's such a sense of like hopelessness because he can't do anything he doesn't know where to bring her back and what does this all mean and like how he would just starting I mean hope maybe he does like later on but like there's just like oh there's absolutely nothing he could do and when they take her away to when she gets carted away from the text it's like he was like chasing after her and then you think like where's he got to go he can't just run and like there's this whole other layer outside of where he lives and and he's getting some sense of that but he can't like quite grasp it he doesn't have like as much control and power and it's just really sad it's really sad and then I think also thinking like thematically to like as we live in America that country very known for how horribly they've treated Native Americans and the tribes that were here that we're seeing these images like a Native American a full warrior kept going on an escalator downstairs was like this these tremendous images of like this emptiness of Technology but then like the soulfulness and peacefulness that at least his character and that his tribe has in this in this episode how did I and we was really effective for me because sadly a lot of us don't think of things that way don't think of our history that way and what we had to destroy in order to have the civilization we had so there's like did that duality to I think but yeah I was just like that moment and then the other part too when he looks over to see the Sun and brings back the braid for the mom that was I'm not kind of bad though because he's like oh I found your son and she's like crying and then there could be like still a substitute son next to her and she's like well I thought I was a son like I'm sorry I don't have this braid I was she was mostly awake yeah she was real but like there was like a substitute son too and she's like I found your son he's like I thought I was her son - ex-wife - but I like how they even don't even call them substitutes there's like oh I see you have a new ghost it's like what what is crazy what I also kind of like about them all kind of waking up is that in the first season Ford thought that the only way to be awake is to Ford or in order for that but it's the only way to be awake is to suffer is to go through all these loops and suffer each time because each time you want to change your situation and get out but then okay still had an inkling of an outside world even when he was living like a pretty peaceful wife but rocky runs into Logan Logan that was a great call back or come like yeah and it's like oh he's crazy sunburnt Logan yeah I'm like weirdest vacation I'm like where are the texts getting in there taking a little long to like wrangle him in yeah I sort of kind of explained that away my brain is like maybe they treat him like William like men in black William where it's like oh we're not supposed to go for young William or for Logan Delos like we just leave them but he's right for the door it's like yeah yeah here it's like at what point do you're like wow the guy who owns this Sun is naked and when I give him like a bag like pick him up with the white car but the the lines that he says - okay with hey we're in the wrong world and the door like those are the ones that kind of popped up for me and I feel like okay takes that up as kind of describing that he's not being the life he's living is not necessary the one he's meant to live yeah well like this is like a fake world and that there's some real world out there but as a viewer I was also kind of unfortunately thinking like oh the rural it's not so great either like if you were to exit outside and being and seeing like what we do and all that stuff and Plus like humans Americans have had a really garbage history about how we treat Native Americans but this island might be in China so this could be different I don't know but I just saw like oh you don't want to even be in the real world we're garbage people but that's what he they have the he keeps referring to as the people below what you think is neat cuz you think of like old like mythology like Hades and the world below like that these are like the devils and the stuff running the world and because yeah literally yeah literally below which I thought that was kind of smoothing creative as well yeah it's good because colonizers are the devil colonizers aren't the devil so what does a Casey when he sees the door what are we what do you guys think he sees pipes a lot of construction where he sees like a door underground and he thinks it might be the door to where you I but every better world yeah but it could just be like at the cafeteria of another other way I think we can see the terraforming equipment in the background in the foreground is they'll pit whatever you want to call it and I think this scene is actually maybe the other side of when Williams shows Dolores look at my kingdom like look at all this stuff that's why I was I think they're on the other side of that huge pit near the terraforming equipment as we see in scene and he's over here being like oh well this is obviously new things interesting that it doesn't look like nothing to him and more interesting that you're like oh well there's the equipment and maybe these are just two sides of the same coin yeah wait no yeah okay so the thing on this season has been the valley beyond is this the now beyond do you guys think quite possibly he does not refer to it like that until he's teaching Kohana what it is and telling her you know I was sure we would together find the valley beyond here the last time I promise but he's been out there though before as we mentioned which i think is very interesting I'm like why doesn't he remember that if he remembers right everything else why doesn't he ran Dolores members some of that stuff yep and Dolores we just call it the Death Bringer I love that nickname now I do like yeah what is it like is it just because she has been so like so tied to like Bernard Arnold and Ford for so long that maybe that's what's kept that he would have recognized Logan he's like you're that guy that we doesn't matter can challenge on and then now you're naked this is exactly what I thought life kind of thinking yes life comes at you fast i wow such an old me know I wondered the exact same thing and it's that question that actually led me to my question at the very end which is might maybe the new version of his Kohana because she repeats the line that they used to repeat to each other okay is that part of the story because she had heard it I was thinking something a little different I was wondering as Maeve the new like cradle is made the new Nana said that this is that isn't that let me let me explain like not a sense that here's the other host backups but he's the able to interface with them and this is like a rebirth of like a 3.0 living cradle like a living creature yeah not in the actual server room that kind of I think it's less oh no and more like sure yeah and it's also kind of it gets a little more matrix e with like oh we are on this plane that we can't explain I don't know there's one thing we should really bring up real quickly is the moment tree man in black Emily and ok what do you guys think of that yeah I I like him he's like take him like we're we're gonna kill him anyway really him don't want him to hurt her like oh they wanted to torture him yeah I'm gonna kill him not to hurt him apparently everybody does but Emily does the most Emily says she does the most she won't probably it's her dad either way um I think which leads me to am very excited about next episode I just gave a little bit here - you'll see a seal award very famous actress playing Juliet the mother of the mother / the wife yeah I mean a blacks whites yes which I'm very excited to see love her as an actress I think it's going to be a very intense family reunion to see how they all interact with each other and how that all goes we also get a flashback to when tiny little Emily was meeting Dolores for the first time which as we all said like that kind of might have sparked her interest and made her kind of be like oh I like them more than humans let's hang out please which is also how she learned to speak the ghost nation's language I think that Emily knows more is more sees more than anybody realizes I don't think she's the answer but I do think that she holds some of the cards we need to figure out the main Westworld mystery speaking of mysteries I have like one remaining question from this episode which you guys could maybe help me out is with the maze that akka was drawing and I get it cuz you know he was like haunted by and he's like what does this mean and keeps bothering him and he draws it everywhere I still don't get why it's on the scalps and like if so they I'm assuming now they drew it on themselves cuz he's like okay so it's always with you so you always remember but one it's not very practical because it's not like they could still see it when they get rebooted and then to like when they get when they die and they scalp themselves Aztec still has to come in and repair them so wouldn't the tech be like why did they keep drawing that like let's throw this away and all the stuffs like I still didn't really quite get it and maybe it was just like just a hole that's gonna remain a hole a pothole or yeah but no I was kind of I was curious if a little bit maybe not that in-depth but it did call back to the first episode when they have to scalp I'm not sure exactly what coach nation remember it is have to look again but they take the scalp off and the maze is there but they need to see them not even like it is discarded yep and it's not Arnold putting it there he goes yeah they don't even care what it is so there's that as well like when you shake that but I think that's what it goes back to it like yes they were scalping and putting that in there but the text didn't know what it was mm-hm and they were like oh maybe someone just coated this in or oh it's on the inside who cares right so they couldn't really see it but by virtue of imprinting it on another ghost nation tribe member perhaps that's what put it in their minds so to speak it's like those like early like like video game things were like the guys signed the inside of like the circuit board but you'll never see University to take the Atari apart unless you know what you're looking for you won't recognize it but is there a is that then it what's the usefulness to ghost nation then if they can't see it either as he says it's to spread the word it's to basically create disciples no or a better sounding where he creates evangelist of this new way of thinking of the maze and everything by spreading that but maybe it's not just the destination maybe it's also the people they're scalping and they're putting it on after these victim hosts indoctrinating them indoctrinating them it's quite a better word and i don't know it's curious detail but I wonder about that and I'm excited about next episode for some of the the william family drama me too but I'm also like I really love this episode I just really liked it way to go HBO and West world way to go that being said thanks for joining us today and hearing us jibber-jabber a little bit about this episode if you guys want to add more to this you guys can check us out on Twitter I matric Holland I'm at Lin law I miss CP and until then you could subscribe you can hit the like button that will help a lot too and you can make the little bell ring get you some applications or if you want more west wheel stuff check out seanut dot cnet.com slash and we can probably cut out here because we don't have right to that song