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good Monday morning on May 8 is time for another week's worth of podcasts from a couple of guys who don't listen to me ever ever ever that's Reggie and in the house very 3:59 podcast we have Roger Chang and Ben Fox Ruben episode 223 what's up guys we're sorry we're sorry Queen Alyssa to you it's really just been who doesn't listen hey hey yeah throwing up that's right alright when we talking we'll talk about net neutrality it's a hot topic John Oliver talked about it last night on last week tonight and we're our own Maggie we got an exclusive interview with FCC Chairman Ajit PI I will break that down for you and second up we'll talk about Andy Rubens next project no relation no relation to bed Fox really right any reuben better known as the founder of android and he's got a new startup accelerator which we're gonna boot rich Nieva got a chance to dive into what it was it's housed in a an old Fry's Electronics warehouse which I kind of loan makes sense I love that detail so we're gonna talk about that as always if you've any questions about these topics leave it the comment section right we'll pick up the best we'll get to them in three minutes and 59 seconds here we go we'll see in the chat in a couple of minutes and here we go in three two welcome to the 359 I'm dr. Chang I'm Ben Fox ribbon what will let you Charlie look like in the coming months well we don't really know because FCC chairman algae pie has begun his assault on the existing rules well he says he's all for an open Internet he doesn't agree with the regulations in place our own Maggie Rand sat down with PI says that he wants us to return to clinton-era light touch regulations but a lot of critics say that just gives Internet service providers a lot more leeway and way too much power and what do you think I think that it makes sense that a Republican chairman would try to do something like this it is interesting that he is at least at the moment trying to convey some sort of positive aspects about like I'm for the open Internet I'm not trying to you know destroy your internet people but III don't think that he has a ton of credibility in the marketplace over this so we'll see how people actually respond to those yeah it's interesting he is a former Verizon lawyer which john oliver who actually devoted a segment yesterday on the show to talk about net neutrality the point out points out that you know it's kind of a dangerous connection there right and then the fact that you know all these guys all the internet service providers like Verizon Comcast they also all say were for an open Internet mm-hmm they just don't agree with the rules in place we just basically they don't want laws restrictive doing the things that they say they are not going to do right and generally those are the types of folks that are going to win out the most if net neutrality does get thrown out its those ISPs yep as opposed to Google Amazon Netflix yeah I mean like there's this enormous list of other giant companies that are also fighting to keep net neutrality rules in place so who exactly is gonna win out the last time around and we expected this would last a little bit longer than it did but the last time around you know the Netflix is of the world ended up winning out this time I mean like it's all under the FCC right like I'm sorry is gonna make the decision yeah the issue here is or you know the reality is that this is a republican-controlled FCC now there's three Republicans two Democrats so if they all vote in accordance with with pie basically those rules are throw out the window okay so ultimately what do you think this means to consumers is this going to like raise my bills for certain things like is my Netflix going to get more expensive or am I going to have to pay more for my internet service you know the worst-case scenario I'm not sure it will affect your your bill what I think will happen you'll have different various services like the idea of that neutrality is that all Internet traffic gets treated equally right regardless you can't pay for better access to a person but theoretically you could have Netflix pain to ensure that it's stream does really really well whereas that next Netflix let's try to come up this crackle or whatever like less or no video service they're not going to be able they won't be able to pay where I have that that higher stream call or higher quality stream which means you can stick with Netflix my argument with that though is is that Netflix if they end up having to cough up too much money that's going to trickle down to the consumer yeah I mean like that's f Acula t'v yeah it's a possibility yeah yeah next we also wanted to get to plague around global it's a new startup accelerator that's being backed by Andy Rubin no relation but this guy is like a really big deal in the tech world oh yeah a lot of Android yeah father of Android he also ran Google's robotics division before he laughs you don't he hit up their mood shots to fish basically for a little while so we'll see I mean like we don't really know too much about playground world global at this point our own rich Nieva got a chance to go inside and check it out yet we do expect some really impressive the most interesting thing is that you know with a lot of these storms all focusing on on software you know this cut this guy's really focus on hardware right start back to physical things which is kind of nice and really the the most exciting thing that we're hoping to see from him is a new phone he's right he's a new phone from this startup or from this accelerator so we will soon and obviously it runs on Android but we'll see what it looks like well see what it looks like all right for more of these stories chickasaw know seen it Roger Chang I'm Ben Fox Ruben thanks for listening so let's talk about edgy a little bit yeah okay so what we're arm what was Maggie's impressions of him cuz he seems like a pretty for lack of a better word with it kind of guy he's pretty else he's a really nice guy but the tricky part is right now no matter what his perspective is he's the enemy right well for power internet user consumers for consumer groups for Democrats or a lot of major tech um yeah if you're a Republican if you're a pro business if you're internet server service provider if you're anti regulations your best friend yeah if you're yeah exactly so this is this is really I mean like this is this is a major Republican platform is we're against too much government regulation so his primary argument is is that these net neutrality rules are based on utilities rules let the fine men dictate itself let the market dictate itself let the government get out of the way and you have to at least respect the fact that this is a traditional government perspective that this is this is what voters voted for when they voted in Donald Trump that whether you're for or against that this is what you would expect this is the message this is what trickles down okay this is Donald Trump's platform and it eat he's the one who appointed pie so yeah he's basically following the bad day just like top wheeler followed Obama's mandate when he instilled the actual net neutrality rule Obama kind of made the push for it right kind of kind of forced a Tom wheelers hand and really kind of got that going right in to be fair to the other argument that like everybody was like really celebrating the concepts of net neutrality we won Tom wheeler is you know this hero let's look at the other side of the coin is it possible that a Jeep I could make reasonable arguments to say this could somehow help consumers yeah well look his argument is that what netted trip with the netted Charlie laws in place there are too onerous that they basically choke off any kind of investment for these these internet surfers brush your networks not gonna get faster it's not gonna get better because these companies are gun shy about vesting because of net neutrality laws okay my immediate impression on that is that Verizon is not hurting for money right right that's the counter-argument he's made arguments about sort of the level of vestment falling since net neutrality has to put in place people can't dispute those numbers the thing of it is is those numbers you could basically you could you could mess around and make exactly to make any argument so I don't know like that's it's highly debatable whether or not his argument holds water but you know he's sticking to the fact that you know without these regulations he thinks that they're gonna invest a lot more networks number so you get a lot better lot faster and more effective mmm and that's the most endearing commentary I've heard on the entire process thus far but we chose know what those arguments are absolutely yeah Maggie's story does a really great job elaborating on that the conversation they had was seemingly uplifting if anything yeah be low-key he stuck to his talking points it wasn't very controversial I think there was a line we actually cut out from the store at the Emery we actually asked this this interview happened on Thursday and Maggie actually asked you know I have a joke a question like what if John Oliver Donald call a Tom wheeler the previous FCC Chairman I did go because he was actually a member of the cable lobbyist Association so he asked or she asked a Jeep I like how he would react to what he would think John Oliver would call him and he kind of punted that question which is why we caught it he didn't really given any kind but it's just it's kind of funny cuz that John bought John Oliver goes on on Sunday and actually makes a centerpiece of his show everyone and actually once again this happened three years ago when he talked to my net neutrality he got people to go and email FCC gov crashes site this time around I think he did it again on Sunday saying it's back up now but site I they briefly crashed because of the response that that came from John Oliver I think that there was at least a little bit of there was quite a bit of surprise that wheeler was able to push through the net neutrality rules the first time around I don't think that it like like they're probably going to get thrown out right like there's what like what are the chances that this isn't going to happen now that the Republicans are actually in control know this almost you're almost assuredly going to have those rules thrown out title two regulations really wonky title to is this utility style set of laws that basically now protecting net neutrality that will almost certainly get thrown out what gets it put in his place is still for debate and really what the fears are is that it isn't just that a child or title to that gets thrown up like any rules get thrown out like that pile will just destroy all regulations and let these guys do whatever they want right yeah and for something idea that they could govern themselves is really the principle that he's operator which you know that's not always the case with these guys right if you create another yeah I I understand the the primary argument for maintaining that neutrality is like let's say like I cover Amazon if like whatever Amazon's you know like their competitor is going to be right if they can't afford that those faster pipes yep don't don't never actually you know other pages won't even load so Amazon's like yeah it was all like you get Amazon instantly but jet calm like takes five minutes alone right you'll never go jet they'd be dead in the water before they even got started yeah yeah and as of right now for some of us having the option of what service provider you can actually get depending on your local depending on your area is already pretty choked yeah you get like one or two right I've got I mean like to realistic I have well I have a telecom provider and I have cable provider right so I've got either Verizon FiOS or I've got cable visions - but you know what they it might as well be one because they'll kind of act the same way right you know there's not we need stars you should kind of has star e done anything yet dollars don't like pilot never will because oh come on it's such a gradual issues with story are so vast in terms of getting spectrum that it's just I mean I hope they do I hope they are hugely successful so in case you don't know what star E is because we wrote about it last year and then haven't really since then is we would be a third option of extremely fast internet service you would have to like put some sort of like weird satellite object out your window to be able to get it and it's it's something that's still being piloted by that what was that what did the guy do before then what was that thing it was Hugh levy service he was stealing like a beast oh crap how do we done and sent Joseph in court we wrote about it like a million times what's that uh app do you remember that TV service was I'm gonna look it up now my court ruled was stealing from I'm obviously who cares uh but know what I will just say in terms of like alternative wireless services there was light squared there's clear wire okay area it was area yeah it was there yeah we did Joe that's been weird name yeah it's a weird name I'll admit but we had LightSquared we had clear wire we had numbered adventures that wanted to be like that third alternative internet sources just work out right LightSquared I think was like a unmitigated disaster if I remember correctly all right let's uh delve into the chat for a little bit yeah Brian and Barry in the chat says if the ISPs get to sell my data at will then I want cheaper internet prices Oh wouldn't that well that's yeah what that's an entirely different issue right now Teddy Charlie no it's not absolutely different no it's also cut its tripping out regulate it is but it's not part of this particular that's channel of rules that they've already kind of stripped that out the privacy stuff is kind of gone long gone no it was it was hadn't yet gone into place right yeah they were that they'd actually pass the rules and they kind of put it on pause to kind of look at it and I'll G PI of the Republican right no we're not going to do it no more privacy expanding on that Matthew says agreed as bad as net neutrality is privacy is worse referring to the lack thereof I assume uh has definitely more immediate I think effect on you your personal life like net neutrality is ultimately more important because it's sort of this foundational fundamental principle governing of the Internet and whether or not it'll actually kind of exist after audit and PI and Republicans are done with it it's the remains to be seen I think also um you're not actually getting a new it's it's not like the government all of a sudden took away a protection that you used to have right you never actually had that ISP protection in the first place they tried to give it to you under Obama and then when Trump got elected it just never went into place right uh speaking of principles svet says net neutrality is not about the money it's about having political control over the message on the Internet ooh yeah ooh that's hot stuff yeah hypothesis yeah uh imagine soggy says if we can get screwed over by companies for more profit it will happen companies are already providing faster internet due to competition like Google Fiber man I am loving these comments mm-hmm boy you should all become reporters because usually wait hot takes you're mentally in the right place right now until the FCC takes your site down sure right sorry but they're but their skepticism is warranted and SEC won't take your site down he'll just let it languish slowly no nice by itself right expanding on that imagine soggy refers back to the comment from svet he says uh theoretically an admin could charge CNN more than Fox News if they would if they could ooh yeah that would be absurd Styx and then it's just stories gonna be a whole nother sandbox for special interests yeah I mean it could eventually open Pandora's box yeah but ultimately if they can't make money off of it like oh that's that's the bottom line for a lot of these guys yeah it's not they're not pushing a political agenda that's they're just pushing ever gets most viewership or makes the most money my immediate impression so bad reality shows and yeah which is what we have and cats which is our reality basic well our TV a lot of the ISPs are really getting um like burdened by Netflix traffic I feel like they're gonna go after Netflix first it's like if they do have to do like some sort of if you want to call it a shakedown you want to like just get them to pay more money whatever I feel like Netflix takes up so much space like as far as those pipes are concerned that they might get them well then they should friggin a absorb that and appreciate it it's simple supply and demand I mean sure that makes a given to that is like well we're spending this money investing in our infrastructure but we don't get we don't get to reap the benefits of what Netflix gets right because it looks not that they're making money hand over fist exactly because they've got to pay for content costs but you know they're they're basically riding on this internet for free right you know I basically getting their profits and the carriers and you know service providers sort of want us they want their cut too right they're basically saying tell me if I'm right about this like we're not the highways we're not the railroad you know like we're creating this private network that now like the government is trying to make into a public service like that's essentially what net neutrality does yeah yeah that's so like we're not it like if like the government builds the highways not ISPs or you know private industry or whatever there's an algae more like well we built these highways the highways need to be maintained and upgrade all the time that cost money we need that that's why we need our cut right right when you're constantly traveling over this highway we'd we need the tolls for to maintain the highway to make sure there you go tolls holes holes is always an important aspect of any net neutrality yeah medical get at tools so that asks how is this different than a hacker hijacking your account and threatening delete to delete it all if you don't pay their ransom okay that's probably a little too far really different what if the movie League is like completely illegal and not something I would suggest anybody uh I mean some would say having their freedom of the freedom of information taken away as a crime that I mean sure but I think that's probably taking a pretty strong argument to my right and it is a little dramatic that they're not killing access they're just theoretically allowing cable companies or phone companies to bottleneck it bottleneck it or give priority access to CERN bits but it's really about money it's I don't know if it's it's political I think it's definitely more money driven net neutrality protects small business a giant like Netflix can afford to pay the ISP ransom but a smaller company may not effectively bankrupt them and I think that's no that's the classic examples that Netflix can pay for those faster highways faster access but like the next video startup may not do it why not be able to have the pockets for that or what I'm running away from this is this could potentially be a stifling of innovation yes that's biggest argument there for a lot of consumer advocates that was wheelers argument too he talked a lot about yeah right yeah yeah exactly it's a confusing and somewhat frightening time we I think we've been and also the art world and the arguments are also like both sides have like co-opted the argument right because the other side you know will argue like well no if nano Charlie actually stifles innovation because we are not innovating on our network so we're not getting faster but you have to be faster to be do more things right yeah so it that's why it's a really confusing issue because like both sides can make a pretty valid argument about innovation gen and a few others are hoping that there can be a discussion sometime down the road about free internet access I don't know how that would come in also in this current climate I don't I don't know how free would work so until then what steps do we need to take I was actually thinking that perhaps we you I don't know what you guys do after work but if you want to get in on this this plan of mine I was gonna start a internet speakeasy okay with VPN access so that you can hide from the everybody yeah it's hide from the everybody but you have to be careful which VPN service you use because they can look at everything you're doing that's true mmm we could just be on the hook even worse that's remote can we do one of these like internet speakeasies just around one of those lincoln YC hubs so which is like the definition of an open Wi-Fi network right oh yeah I guess you wouldn't have the VPN aspect or um but as far as like free internet service at least like Manhattan in parts of Brooklyn are already getting some version of it there are a lot of cities but it's not like you could just sit there all day well I guess you could some people have but not like your whole internet service right you know like have X - you've got a cubby park right next to this you know this big kids is this big kiosk thing but at the same time there have been like stops and starts of like all these different municipalities trying to get some sort of free Wi-Fi or free inner beauty Wi-Fi has always been a dream for a long time yeah and this is probably the furthest along that it's gotten so far I don't really know how successful or how impactful it's been and kind of changing consumer habits but you know if it does well then people might actually see more of these pakodi points out that there is free internet access it's called free Wi-Fi hotspots you're right however that's like going to your high school's library and hoping get access to anything besides like the Yahoo front page right and they're also it's also super spotty like yeah you didn't do the municipality than you would at least be able to tell people like wouldn't that be amazing like welcome to New York City like Wi-Fi is everywhere yeah right they are speed and your bandwidth you can't even watch a YouTube video on those kind of things like know what my tube is it really screw it up for everybody else right yeah here's the jerk oh it's gonna be a weird few months anything else guys I'm having a hard time we're late digesting all of this because I'm already in a miserable spot I'm not happy with my ISP and I'm only fearing how like this is going to progress oh yeah whoo I love my eyes I'm afraid to say cuz I think they might have me killed oh please spectrum spectrum okay somebody named I used one out there I use cable vision I mean like I don't have a choice I little yeah you don't have a choice because like you you're basically stuck with a region-specific cable provider right I spent last week calling around searching around trying to find other resources the only other thing about Verizon not in my area right see I'm actually moving next week to an area where they have Verizon FiOS and caste but you're right that the pricing is fairly similar yeah I'm probably gonna go with Verizon because the speeds are a little bit better right but you know like it's still a duopoly we have does not force down prices as much as you would hope they wasn't yeah just miserable hate the Internet Wow look I'll get you a drink man sorry poor guy alright let's end it all that's our day hi guys abroad every Monday every Monday hope you enjoy your net where you got it all right if you like David you saw or heard here or maybe not say so Brian check us out I see that our podcasts also available iTunes student stitcher SoundCloud feedburner and Google Play Music see y'all tomorrow 3:00 tomorrow you