Gadgetory

hey everyone welcome back to another ask GN episode we have three we're shooting today probably one of them will be the patreon ass Jenna will be up on the patreon channel so you go to patreon.com/scishow to get access to that one if you want to but for this one we're on episode 100 now and for that we are doing nothing special if you have questions as always leave them in the comment section below so that we can look at them for next time we'll be talking about GPUs today so end of life for pascal is it here or not yet and a couple of other excellent questions from you all and we also have some art that we'll be talking about before that this video is brought to you by the EVGA CLC 280 liquid cooler people ask me how I keep cool during the summer with all this hair well I've tried a lot of different products and a few do exactly what I need many of them cause tangles or worse EVGA CLC 280 helps keep my core temperatures lower they're in hot benchmarking sessions the CLC 280 is price competitive and focuses on performance for value offering a 280 liquid cooler at an affordable price get yours at the link in the description below hair mounting kit sold separately so for the art we we talked in the news video about wanting to put up some art on the walls mostly old hardware from a lot of you have sent old CPU stuff like that really looking forward to getting those in so we putting that up in frames on the wall and stuff like that think we'll also frame this this is an old dead a m3 motherboard that we've had for a long time and we did some thermal paste experiments on the socket I think we're just gonna frame it and explain how it's abstract art I don't know man walking down alleyway sounds like a good title for that one if you have stuff you want to send us though for consideration we have a P o box now I'll include it in the description below you can send stuff there if you want to email us and ask if we already have whatever you're thinking of sending feel free to do that but yeah so looking forward to seeing what you have maybe we can frame it no guarantee we'll be on video but we do need some art for the office and old hardware makes a lot of sense also by the way stored on cameras axis net to get on the backorder list for the mod match they're on the way in for the next round so alright first question is from a bunch bird says I enjoy ass yen because it contains answers to difficult questions and questions that I didn't know I even wanted to ask sure one could google this stuff but that doesn't help when I don't even know I have a question I included this because last week we had a guy asking about why we don't have questions that you can't just google the answer to even though Google has pretty much everything access to everything that I would know anyway but this is actually a really good point and not when I thought of which is that these videos I guess help you figure out what you even want to ask so thank you to everyone who has posted questions that benefit the community please continue to do so in the comments below first real question here is from crizzley bear who says following up from a recent video is Pascal already end-of-life I haven't found any info on that see in the price of a 20 80 TI I think it's wise to save up for buying a GPU next or if 1080 T eyes won't be available anymore say in two months so yeah this is a great question one that always comes up when there's a new launch of a product is it end-of-life there's no firm official information from Nvidia yet I'll just put that out there first NVIDIA has not officially in any of its investor meetings as far as I'm aware said we are Chilean production of whatever part so no official information but I was able to talk to a few people and I have of course my own thoughts as well on this and the thing with Pascal is there's a lot of it out there because Nvidia overbought for mining ended up with a whole lot of inventory that's been getting dumped on the board partners and board partners have to get rid of it so that's why you're seeing like 1080 eyes and 1080 s at a lower price than is typical and that's not gonna last forever so if you've been in the industry while you've seen CV prices GPU prices tend to actually go up as a product goes AOL and I don't know exactly why that is I it's because you can't get it anymore I guess and I don't know if maybe business users are think that you have to buy exactly the same part when the old one dies I don't know but typically the prices go up not down right now they are down because there's so much oversupply of Pascal that will not last forever so as far as is it AOL we asked around and as we understand right now Pascal is sort of on hold Nvidia still has the capability to produce more if they wanted to it's not officially eol but as I understand it from our contacts ian in the industry in the AIB side and we is not presently making more Pascal GPUs because they made too many anyway so it's not dead yet the 1060 end-up are especially oversupplied right now so there's a lot of 10 60 70 80 and 80 TI and the 20 60 and 20 50 launch aren't happening today it's just the 20 80 and the TI right now which those will influence which parts go TL as well the lower end Pascal parts will keep being made on while assuming they sell through them until those parts launch it's the 1080 TI that'll go away first and we're not sure on when the 1080 in 10 sony will go away but definitely the 1080 TI is one of the first to go end-of-life and that is probably going to happen around quarter for potentially inventory my dwindle and October and that's just based on the current supply and the current high demand because the response to our GX pricing from the community was so severe that our prediction in the prediction of our contact is that Pascal will remain a good seller up until the point that RT acts potentially becomes more affordable or has benchmarks to support the price that it is asking so you'll see a lot of Pascal sales up through October and then at that point supply will dwindle and we're not sure how much will be left but q4 it looks like AOL for the TI most likely and then for the 1080 and 1070 we're not clear those will take a bit longer to clear out and get rid of so those might be around a little while longer than the T is 10 60 and down no idea because there's no RT extra placement yeah and that's by the way another thing we were looking at is will the RT X branding be removed from the lower end cards because it's not a 2060 will almost certainly not have the horsepower required to do ray tracing the way that a 20 70 80 80 TI can do so will they revert to GTX branding because it won't have that capable it might have the capability in terms of tennis courts but will have the necessary horsepower to drive graphics at a reasonable resolution and still rate race so that that impacts branding I'm presently one of my one of my theories is that we might see some Pascal refresh is at the very low end like a 2050 2050 TI 2060 something like that because if those are still perfectly good parts and they still have a lot of them margins high easy to make then no there's no reason that Nvidia might not consider taking a 1070 TI or something or 1080 and turning it into a 2060 but anyway as far as the answer to your question it's not ul yet Pascal 1080 eyes will die first and I'll probably October two quarter four when you start seeing prices go the other direction potentially as supply dwindles and then 1080s will be a bit later because there's more of them in the channel next one fuddy-duddy says within videos are txseries focusing mostly on the new tensor driven technologies will that mean reviewers will have to approach reviews differently I can understand that in apples to apples comparison would still be prudent so rasterization only no tensor features but if these tensor chords can unburden the CUDA cores with features like DL SS and thus improve frame 8 versus say a four tap MSA a set up on a regular GPU would that be fair given the caveats at the start of the video which referring to last week's video I think so yeah it's it's going to change a bit the type of tests we do but I can't speak for other reviewers I can tell you what we're gonna do for RTX we are definitely still doing rasterization normal benchmarks because all the games we test most games on the market today are still without any rage facing features at all so we'll still be testing those it's really important because it gives you a firm answer to how well does it perform versus pascal kepler max well in a normal game which would be in most of your library today so when a new card comes out it's not like you only play games that that card is built to work with and we're gonna be testing the old games and the new games as they those are a bit scarce right now but we'll test them as soon as I think Tomb Raider comes out next week a set of course comes out next week and those are supposed to have r-tx features so we will be testing those it's just a question of how does it perform versus normal cards under normal circumstances and one of the tests will be doing certainly whether or not it's in the review I can't tell you right now but will be just the new games with r-tx features disabled and test them serves as a normal game so we'll test them without any of the special and video features on Pascal and on touring and then we'll test and probably volta and then we'll test them with those features our TX features on the same suite of cards and what does the scaling look like how does it handle on Pascal is there a visual game that's another thing we have to look at so this is where to your methodology question gets kind of tricky in days past there was a time when reviewers before I started reviewing GPUs had to take comparison shots of the games that are working on because the different cards would render the games in such a different way that you had different quality visual quality differences even though the framerate still seems like a fixed number you can measure and the settings might look the same the way the cards were interpreting the settings was different between brands and that causes problems because you can't quantitatively measure that you have to do a comparison so we'll be doing comparisons of our TX settings on versus off on multiple generations at least two so that we can see what is the visual benefit even if if we know that our TX processes the our TX feature is the ray-tracing features MLS SML al that's of significantly better than other cards can okay cool but what value does that give us when considering that the the visual quality might actually not be worth the performance hit so that's something that we have to look into and consider as well so yes it does change our considerations for testing quite a bit but we're still going to be testing cards just like normally thermals all be tested normally power tested normally and rasterization games will be tested normally so we'll have a full picture of what's going on just keep in mind some of this stuff will come out in separate feature pieces so it might not all be in the initial review depending on time restrictions of testing time available and also the video duration but hopefully that answers some of your question yeah we'll be testing with them with the features on and off and make sure that it's all level for all the tests and see how it does next one middle quark says hi see great channels great content thank you I have a kind of odd question but I hope you can help with some clarity given that big power fluctuations are inevitable when running a specific application which of these two situations is better for the longevity of a GPU specifically or any other component in general voltage fluctuation with stable amperage or amperage fluctuation with stable voltage let's also assume that the voltage in both cases even when fluctuating does not reach dangerous levels from what I know in electronics the voltage is the most dangerous of variables however my concern is that a continuous fluctuation in electrons and specific weak wires on the PCB or inside the GPU may cause more damage so first of all yes voltages is definitely one of the most dangerous variables if not the most dangerous the thing with current with amperage the GPU or the CPU RAM or whatever it's only going to pull the current that it needs and the voltage will be supplied to it by a voltage regulator or a power supply of some sort and there are power supplies on graphics cards as well so everything's pretty much got a power supply of some kind outside of just the actual PC power supply that's supplying all of the power for the computer so current is drawn for a voltage the end fibers by the way can complicate this a bit because integrated fully integrated voltage regulators like Intel CPUs do a bit of work as well but anyway for volt did you want good power regulation and good V RMS to ensure that the supply is stable and then you need a user who is not insane to make sure you set a voltage that is safe so as long as you're staying within the parameters of the part and keeping the voltage relatively safe and you have a good power supply good voltage regulation it'll be fine to answer your question though of what causes more damage it's going to be the voltage that and kill stuff especially as you have let's say you have a board that is it's got a lot of ripple or video cards as well have ripple issues to pay on the VRM so the lower quality the vrm lower quality the the power delivery of the component you introduce potentially more ripple this is true for power supplies as well you introduce variance fluctuation in the voltage supply and if it spikes like let's say let's say you did it yourself to yourself you use LLC at too high of a level or something and so load line calibration now instead of dipping down when it wants to change it's going to dip up it's going to spike and that can cause damage to so you might spike in a way that could be detrimental to the CPUs longevity you start looking at things like integrated memory controllers or IMC's SOC s for AMD and what kills those actually it doesn't kill them it degrades them is high voltage not current so if you're pushing a higher voltage like one point one point four si for example or even that's a VSO see something like that 1.4 1.3 in that range it will degrade the quality of the IMC over times over time you'll be able to support a lower frequency you might require a higher voltage to support the same frequency and that degradation is caused by voltage by heat and of course current is directly it correlates directly because it's just voltage times amps gives you watts so it's all part of the same formula but voltage is the one that you really need to be concerned about and I for the most part even though we talked about wanting good power regulation good V RMS on a motherboard for the most part any average board and up is going to be fine unless you're really doing some extreme overclocking but there are definitely like low-end bottom-of-the-barrel power supplies that can cause damage and there are low and boards that can cause damage it's just you know as it kind of depends on how you would be used it as well if you're using a low-end board and trying to push a high overclock it's not gonna end well but yes voltage is the thing to be most concerned about and the current you don't have as much control over anyway so just set the the voltage in a safe manner next one Marcus saw Mirka saw says how as the resolution effect graphics card power usage and by extension boost clocks and temperatures I've noticed that every card I've got and previously owned sees higher power consumption and lower boost clocks as resolution increased my 1064 example hits its power limit at 1440p and doesn't at 1080p we're talking unlocked frame rate here and my 1080 Ti also sees higher power usage and therefore slightly reduced clocks at 1080p versus 1080p the reason is almost certainly because you are hitting the CPU bound scenarios potentially anyway the 1060 bit of a question what so the we've we haven't done this in a while but there was a time when we were doing power tests we clamped the cables say take a current clamp you put it on the 12 volt cables going into the video card and you can measure the the current and so we did that for power monitoring and I did test 1440 verse 4k and I think you in 1080i one point and the difference is is very little it's it's pretty marginal so a lot of reason you start seeing big differences is let's say we test 1080p vs. 4k power consumption and we see like a I don't know 20 30 watt difference in power consumption the reason you might see that the weights and you would see that is not because of the GPUs workload being any less severe it's because the GP is not getting as much work because the CPU is bottleneck in it so if you're at a point where the CPU is the bottleneck and so the GPUs sitting that are waiting idle burnin cycles doing nothing then yes it will consume less power because it's burning cycles on nothing and that's typically where you see the difference not because the resolution itself is actually different in terms of how its processed on the GPU as long as the GPU is loaded and burdened in the same way and the CV is not limiting it then you should see roughly the same power consumption it's it's within a couple of watts typically I haven't tested that in about a year but we did test it at one point next one is from so I've got one question here we're gonna throw to John for Johnny guru as you all know him once he's available and it's about how uninterruptible power supplies impact performance of a power supply and a PC we don't have the answer for that yet so we'll throw that to him when he's available the next one though I need brain in Andrew who is on our team and he does a lot of 3d modeling 3d animation rendering work and that questions from liquid paper who asks assuming that you could raytrace render a game with no performance hit what are the benefits of doing so relative to traditional rendering I feel like no one at least not Nvidia has really explained why an end-user should care about ray tracing or at least why doing so is theoretically preferable over traditional rendering performance hit notwithstanding so first of all before I bring Andrew in to discuss this with him couple things ray tracing has NVIDIA has presented its RR t XR DX cards they don't just do ray tracing they also do like a machine learning super sampling which is upscaling the image and a machine learning anti-aliasing they fall under the r-tx suite but they are not ray tracing technology so there are a few different things anybody does your global elimination is another one that can leverage the tensor cores but don't necessarily fall under the ray tracing bucket and we'll talk about more about what the SS NAA stuff means later if you don't already know but we can talk about ray tracing today okay so the question was we have Andrew here now assuming that you could rate race render a game and though performance hit what are the benefits of doing so relative to traditional rendering and videos tried to explain this pretty hard I think with with the Star Wars demo so you've seen the Star Wars demo that talks about a lot of it but I don't know where do we start with this yeah I don't know because it is mostly not having to use screen space reflections even though that is possible it is the cheapest way to render reflections and actually not sure the limits of our txg enough is this something we could test to see if non screen space reflections are cheaper than r-tx reflections or ray-traced reflections you know in final games yeah I don't know the problem is the demos we're kind of incomplete and that they'd show r-tx on and then everything off right like including that existing cheated ways to do lighting so and when we say things like so and reuse a few words they're cheaper is in reference to resource consumption and screen space reflections we should define as well as that like so that what we're talking about the camera has a view of us camera can't see our backs if we have a mirror behind us right it's it's super weird if there's a mirror behind us and reusing screens based reflections you'd actually see our face is looking at you in the mirror behind us if that's all that the camera could go based off of right and there are ways to cheat that too I think right I guess ray tracing is probably the the easiest way to get accuracy but it's extremely resource intensive right if you're using it I don't know how far we should talk into ray tracing but you would be tracing all of the all of the color bouncing off of all of our materials from every light source so that way it can get all we what's the best way to put this just like all the color bouncing off of us from every direction would be hitting everything around us yes sir tense like if I guess some example would be the other day there was a coca-cola truck parked outside of our window that's a giant red truck and so the light is hitting that truck and as it reflected off into the window of the office it was coloring the light on the walls in the office itself a bit red right so basically like we had red lights in the room but it was just a natural sunlight hitting a red object then turning that light red as it comes in through the window so is that is that that be global illumination level illumination and that's another thing that anybody has been demoing with our TX so our TX more than just our TX itself is more than just the prefix for the card it's a package like an SDK of all the stuff but at global illumination is one of the things where you can get that indirect I guess lighting is that that's correct so you get indirect lighting off another surface bounce coming to the room and I don't know I mean can you fake that stuff now well yeah it's the other thing that unreal has be able to do that for a very long time at least since the release of underline religion for they have tech time I was showing it to ya right so it's it's not like it's new visually it's just new the way well not even new but it's it's new that Nvidia is able to do this would be a ray tracing a vial maintaining real-time performance right that's the new part it's ray tracing isn't new and these lighting effects aren't new correct but the real time aspect is so the real time aspect is are you real arguably right not that new either right the way that they're combining it all together into one thing is pretty new so yeah then I guess part of the question we should address is just what's the benefit and I think if a lot of games right now are pretty good at cheating the graphics right and by cheating it's not like it's a bad thing it's just you find the way to make the graphics without killing the performance they're so good at cheating it in that for a while anyway I don't know that you'd really might not look all that different to you yeah so it depends on the implementation which if you're doing true direct lighting you will not have any like if my hand was close to the table we'd not it the backside would be completely dark there would be no light bouncing off the table to my to the other side of my hand but you can just say it's pretty close to something just make it a little lighter right and you're not actually count counting up light bounces at that point you're just telling it to make it lighter because it's closer to something which would be an example of cheating so you're doing like a product somebody track and then just applying a different color to it or hue or something yeah something like that but not tracing the Rays right so and ray tracing to by the way is traced backwards so comes from your eye back to the source not in real life not in real life but in no way this technology works it is because it's easier to see what hits the camera and then go backwards from there rather than let's trace literally everything right and then have a bunch of things go off into the distance word it's not even being picked up by the camera right yes so I don't hopefully that helps that anything else you want to clarify on this I guess the if if you're implying that graphics don't mean much to you and what does ray-tracing bring otherwise if it's not just a graphical improvement it honestly doesn't really bring anything to be honest yeah it's a graphics thing and if you're happy with existing graphics and you want better gameplay it's not really gonna it's not like ray-tracing is gonna enable new mechanics right in any meaningful way anyway it's not gonna change any geometry like you said in any way either right geometry is it's not changed at all whatever models they made or what they made so hopefully that helps a last question and while I have you here Andrew is how much of your life when your life flashes before your eyes how much of your life do you want to not have been retraced I think all of it will have been ray traced yeah all of its rays last question so last one was from Jacque McBeal he says hey Steve a suggestion how about four to five dollars off if you buy a set of 4gn beer glasses I won up to you and we did $20 off if you buy four but they're out of stock because because I made them $20 off before so anyway they'll be restocked student and store doc gamers Nexus not net to pick up those or anything else like the mod match thank you Andrew for joining me and you'll find more of our stuff on the channel so subscribe for that as always patreon.com/scishow khmers nexus for the bonus episode we'll see you all next time