Gadgetory

everyone welcome back to another ask Jian episode as always leave your questions in the comments section below for next week the mess on the table hopefully you've seen by now is from responding to Jay and his undying need to post higher scores by using extremely brute force methods so we took an also brute force method that was very slow to put together so you'll see that hopefully on the channel already but as always leave your questions below we have a couple good ones this week that will go a bit detailed on like game graphics settings things like that so as I said last week if you have game graphics questions specifically we're trying to answer more of those lately leave them below before that this video is brought to you by the be quiet dark rock 4 and dark rock Pro for CPU coolers these high-end coolers to focus on a smarter approach to air cooling by adding a mini fin stack on top of the direct contact cold plate adding small bumps to the fins for increased surface area and by using silent wanes 135 millimeter fans custom-built for high performance cooling without too much noise the pro is a duel tower cooler rated for 250 watt TDP while the dark rock 4 is built for 200 watt CDP's learn more at the link of the description below so quick note on the store as always we've a lot of things coming back in stock the anniversary logo with the teal design is coming back in this graph logo shirt is mostly in stock right now and then the blue tinted beer glasses are in with the gold rim if you like those and of course the mod mats are actually in stock and shipping now it's not on backorder anymore first question is about multi-gpu making a comeback and this is from the dire lynx who said with Nvidia's a new envy link connector for SLI and Andy's rumored counterpart XG mi as well as a newer Nvidia sponsored titles working very well with multi-gpu setups do you think multi GB will make a comeback how do you feel about multi-gpu seemingly becoming more and more of a focus for both companies and do you think we'll see AMD try the same thing they did with the RX 480 when na'vi eventually comes higher comparing higher end end video cards to multi-gpu set up and they will do whatever they need to do to market their card as as superior so if it happens to be that multi-gpu will look superior and they can do it at the same price when you combine two cards which is one of them videos then yeah they'll revisit that angle it's just either company's gonna do whatever makes them look the best so if that's what it is then yeah they'll visit that angle for sure as for making a comeback though I'm gonna go with no on this probably not because there's there's actually when we tested SLI which is what NV link is just that's a lie for gaming when we tested it there were surprising amount of games that actually do have scaling these days but if you look at the games that have it in a lot of cases they didn't really get support until later so post launch and it sucks to own $2,500 video card if you have 220 ATT eyes and have to wait for who knows how long for a patch to come out where SLI starts actually working so that's a problem for sure the the wait time is I think a big no-go for a lot of people just also because it's completely nebulous you don't know if they're ever going to support multi GPU and then also the companies so Nvidia all but abandoned multi-gpu for Pascal they killed it like they killed three and 4-way GPU setups completely there was a way to do it with special unlock codes at the start I think it opened up a bit but games just didn't natively support it so that that died so they narrowed it down to two way GPU setups and weren't even promoting that that hard I mean at all the press day events and all those talks for all the new Pascal launches multi-gpu is not even a discussion topic and if it was brought up the people at Nvidia more or less kind of disregarded it as just a non option so it was pretty much done away with in Pascal our t axis does feel like it's getting a bit of a revisit part of that's because there's a new bridge even though it's still sli it's a new bridge so I guess that makes it exciting again and it kind of like obscures that it's actually the same technology so I think the thing here is Nvidia realizes that actually selling the same person lots of cards to put in one system is a really appealing idea so maybe they'll revisit and try and push it and make it actually viable and there has been as I said more support for SLI so credit to them there the scalene isn't perfect a lot of times it really does feel like kind of a waste if you spent a lot of money you're getting 40% scaling for example you still get negative scaling entitles you still get micro stuttering games because of AFR and there are all kinds of problems with multi-gpu where even if Nvidia does everything they possibly can to make it good and I believe that to some extent they are you're still leaning on engine developers and game developers as we'll talk about and I think the next question to really make it work and that means there's a dependency and if the market share of multi-gpu is really low then why would they why would the developers pursue optimizing for it and making it work so I don't know I really don't see it making a huge comeback unless there's a significant change in in the current for the market if everyone starts going multi-gpu as a consumer then maybe but there's there too many dependencies in there there's too much uncertainty with how long you're gonna wait is it ever gonna work well game developers supported all that stuff and also the new cards are really expensive too so I'm gonna go with no for my answer for this maybe in the future but for the current cards I'm leaning towards them now and there are games like Sniper Elite 4 that have phenomenal scaling but there aren't many developers who will build a game that well just in terms of the engineering side of it not even gameplay so that's you can't base the decision to go multi-gpu as a consumer on the like three games that have 100% scaling so that's let's talk about this some more though the next question why does multigp scale poorly so this is by supa who said fundamentally what causes such poor scaling in most games when using SLI or is it on V link is it due to the latency of communication between the two or more GPUs first of all to answer the the internal parentheses erekle question there NV link is SLI for purposes of this discussion and Vidya has more or less converted they brought SLI on to n viewing and Vela actually let me just read build Zoids answer it builds I jumped in to this discussion on the discord and answered it so I don't read his here build Zoid said the problem with SLI is SLI it's not a bandwidth problem one reason the twenty series it uses an NB link connector instead of SLI is that the twenty series are compute accelerated cards and NV link is used for vram sharing and compute applications it's easier to port SLI functionality on to NV link than it is to have both NV link and SLI interfaces on the twenty series the reason why I so I sucked so much is that it's really hard to evenly split up workloads between multiple GPUs the easiest method for having two GPUs rendering is to have each GPU render every other frame AFR or alternate frame rendering the problem with AFR is it produces micro stutter unless you spend some time synchronizing the cards which results in lower fps the other issue is that there's a bunch of post-processing effects that do not work with AFR other than that multi-gpu also puts more load on the CPU finally multi-gpu has problems with some engines just straight-up not being able to deal with having two or more rendering devices split frame and super tile rendering eliminate some of the AFR issues but give smaller performance gains multi-gpu basically needs a ton of work from the rendering engine developers to make it work which is why benchmarks like 3dmark can show basically perfect multi-gpu scaling while some game games end up literally losing performance with every additional GPU so build Zoid did a great job answering this to expand on that builds are noted that sun and if you don't know who he is check out his channel actually hardcore overclocking on youtube but to get into some of this so post-processing effects builds are noted as a problem if you work with any kind of multi GP you'll notice that there are a lot of anti-aliasing options that do not work with multi-gpu TAA is one of them so temporal anti-aliasing where you go in temporally so taste on time it's framed the frame comparison previous frame next frame look at the changes on the frame and then do some anti-aliasing based on those changes so that you're really focusing on the areas of movement and and that just doesn't play well with multi-gpu at all and some of the games we tested it on actually shadow the Tomb Raider we got hard fails like blue screens BSOD is from multi-gpu so that's problem disabling taa did pretty much put a stop to that but it did still sometimes have a hard crash or freeze minimizing was completely broken in in shadow of the Tomb Raider as well with multi GPU and they're working to develop drivers further for that game I think enmity is working with the game developers on it so this is stuff that should be largely resolved but this is why going back to the previous question I don't think multigp will make comeback because not many people have the patience to put up with that I mean especially a single-player game because realistically how long are you playing that games like Skyrim notwithstanding where you're looking at a month two months of updates to get the set up to work and by then you might have just disabled that's a lie and played through it on one card because you don't you don't want to wait so anyway going back to a builder was saying though and what causes poor scaling a lot of this does come down to engine developers a lot of it can come down to API as well so the first implementation of Vulcan and doom just straight did not support multi GPU and I don't know what the status of Doom is these days for multi-gpu I haven't benchmark in a while please feel free to leave a comment but I do know that like DirectX 12 is a great example of an API that has done a lot for multi-gpu it has actually we have another question about this it has the ability to illuminate bridges entirely so you can just go with explicit multi-gpu over the PCIe bus you start running as a PCIe bandwidth limitations and some games but developers don't really use it because it actually takes a lot of effort to implement multi-gpu and go with DirectX 12 explicit multi-gpu approach where you can have arbitrary multiple cards like an rx 580 with an art 480 for example or a 390 X with an Rx 580 as another example you could do things like that actually I think we even tested something like I want to say an Nvidia card and an AMD card in the same system with ashes so ashes isn't really a game it's a benchmark and because of that the the benchmark at this point has been developed to a point where it does really cool things like explicit multi-gpu but it's not in any games because the game developers are busy making the game the gameplay mechanics and can it not suck and the benchmark developers just have to make the technology work so that's that's a lot of the poor multi-gpu scaling split frame and super tile render and have their own issues and also still have to be implemented so a lot of this comes down to implementation technology does not just work out of the box that's the big problem why not use the PCIe bus instead of bridges that's the next question from Luke matters and this is a good one so this is they all go in together today Luther matters said I seem just a question about SLI R and V link I saw a video benching twenty eighty from mining and they used two cards and didn't have the actual NV link the guy said it didn't matter because remaining soft I ran both cards equally anyway why hasn't software for general use benchmarks for gaming been developed to bypass the hardware link which seems to degrade scaling value in my opinion if the cards were run as independent cards processing the same image would it be technically possible to get 100% performance from each card so first I'll refer to the previous answer of course for a lot of this because that contains a lot of the the answer to this parts of this question but one thing I wanted to note with this is talking about specifically the lack of a bridge you don't need a bridge to do multi-gpu but if you eliminate the bridge you have to communicate via the PCIe bus and although if you have multiple cards in X 8 or X 16 or whatever there's really no scaling concerns with the bridge there are scaling concerns without a bridge because that bridge has its own bandwidth so the cards can communicate with each other and bypass the PCIe bus so that actually does come into play and check out our NV link benchmark of the 2080 TI's or 20 eighties whatever it was to see more of that because Ashley the singularity is a game game and big quotes where multi GB was implemented in a way that bypasses the bridge so let's go into this a bit when I wrote about this originally and tested it one of the things that I wrote about was so I said multi-gpu configurations with ashes of the singularities dx12 environment operate using arbitrary alternate frame rendering or AFR ashes can support both l which is linked display adapter or traditional SLI and crossfire and MDA or multi display adapter and then LD eight works with SLI bridges and crossfire bridges MDA works by just running the two display adapters that bridge is relying on the PCIe bus for communication MDA also allows for multiple off-brand or off model GPUs to function in somewhat harmonious processing so that's what I wrote about it then and this is a way to bypass the bridge these days you start running into pcie 3.0 bandwidth limitations at the very very high end the low end it's fine like mid-range cards 200 bucks something like that so as for why well I mean that's that's why that's why bridges are still a thing because of the you're most likely going to combine cards by the way it has been pushed these days at the high end and so that means that you need a bridge cuz you're gonna run into limits also the companies don't really of course want you combining low end cards to surpass their high end cards so it'll be pushed towards the high end but I think I think I've answered most of your question between this one in the previous two mining is a lot different I should say that so mining just is way different of an application you're not worried about rendering frames and mining just it's just all compute from what I understand or some of it might be on the memory but either way the cards don't I don't think I'm almost positive they don't need to share any data with each other so that's that's the big reason you can get away with those risers also latency is not quite as much of a concern either next one which game graphics settings hit performance the most so fredrik kempe Anya said question about game graphics settings after touring with the graphics settings in Forza Motorsport 7 it seems like motion blur anti-aliasing and reflections on track surfaces when wet are the graphic services graphic settings that are affecting my games performance the most what are other settings you could suggest I should look for and maybe even explaining their impact excuse me on the system's resources not specifically for this game but more on in general basis this is something I used to do a lot of so we used to do those game graphics guides all we did a big one for GTA The Witcher 3 black ops 3 a couple other games mostly involving the number three and they were pretty well-received so let's go through some of this first of all I'm not gonna address every single graphics detail I'm sure some commentary is gonna be like doh my god what you forgot to say whatever probably didn't literally forget it's just I mean this is not really meant to be a game graphics settings video so I'm gonna go over a few of them that I found are the most interesting but not necessarily the so we'll go through a bunch that are most impactful and that may be one or two that have really no impact and I'm leave all I'll leave all the other ones with no impact out for now so first up you should be looking at mesh detail and geometry settings to reduce draw calls on the CPU lowering mesh detail for example in Call of Duty resulted in some embellishments disappearing from prop vehicles and other props in the game a good example would be non drivable tanks or jeeps where the headlights would simplify or even disappear which reduces the amount of primitives which would be triangles for example that have to be rendered this lessens load on both the CPU and GPU but reducing draw calls and dx11 will benefit low end CPU is disproportionately more next texture quality for VRAM if you're limited on vram or video card memory texture quality has a huge impact lower quality textures will reduce texture resolution eg to 128 by 128 or 256 by 2 to 6 or higher because textures are not typically procedurally generated almost never are and are pre fabricated by the game's artists there's not much computational load on the GPU aside from related transforms to apply the texture to a service the load generated is more space related so when you're working with a higher texture resolution it's almost purely VRAM as a bigger image file takes more space when it needs to sit around waiting to be called this can be left to higher settings if theorem is sufficient as it will not meaningfully impact frame rate beyond frame buffer limitations LOD scaling has the biggest noticeable impact to both visual quality and performance perhaps aside from anti-aliasing impact on performance LOD scaling determines the number of vertices or polygons and objects as they vary in distance the recent Nvidia asteroids demo is a great representation how this works this doesn't normally have full or we rather don't normally have full access to this setting in game graphics options but some games allow for LOD modifications as an object gets further away there isn't any point to drawing it in full detail of course we can't see it and so scaling down detail at far distances helps preserve both VRAM and computational power especially if you're talking about a lot of draw calls on the CPU that said geometry poppin becomes more of an issue to a point where an object will look like it's changing as you approach it just sort of transmogrifying so that's something we saw in the FF XV demo previously and obviously something you want to avoid view distance is one of the biggest changes to performance GTA 5 has a few views and sliders that can affect poppin and object draw distance entirely this is different from LED scaling and that it completely toggles when things pop into view so it's not a change of the mesh detail or whatever it's a change of the object being there or not the major impact on performance is because it prevents objects from being drawn but it can also affect gameplay quality which is a concern in our old Witcher 3 graphics settings deep dive we found foliage visibility range to have a severe impact to game performance but minimal impact to gameplay quality so that'd be a good example of something to change whereas buta stance even though it's a huge impact the gameplay for game performance it's also huge impact to gameplay and you want to avoid that aspect so it'd be better to tweak things like shadows ambient occlusion grass quality foliage view distance and anti-aliasing rather than maybe view distance because you actually really want that view to since a lot of games to see where your enemies are things like that ambient occlusion is another one so on the same guide for the Witcher 3 we found having an occlusion to be somewhat noteworthy and its impact aao settings can change or will change how light interacts with neighboring materials you have two objects next to each other the and they are using ambient occlusion you'll see increased shadow contrast that connected services and overall added apparent depth to the viewer we typically see a few percentage points of performance impact they owe not massive but enough to disable it because the actual gameplay value is effectively zero but the visual quality value is debatable depending on the game grass quality we've really found that graphs quality has a massive performance impact including in our recent Final Fantasy benchmark and GTA testing if you don't feel attached to tall grass grass which deforms the movement sable in it will help a lot shadows are next to the drawing shadows of every object on the screen is expensive and not that valuable to gameplay at the end of the day so this is a good option to look at if you're using soft shadows as multi-tap sampling out the borders that can also impact performance in a big way lowering shadow settings hopefully should disable shadows of unimportant environment objects or props first like maybe a cup or silverware on the table or something like that and instead focus on only drawing shadows for the actors and large objects anti-aliasing has the biggest performance impact of all this samples multiple times per pixel maybe eight times or four times or something like that so you're effectively rendering the entire image at a higher resolution FXAA is a cheap form of anti-aliasing called fast approximate anti-aliasing instead of sampling each pixel on a 3d object multiple times it finds and smoothes object edges based upon object depth doesn't look great but typically has a near zero impact performance anisotropic filtering also has function zero impacts and can be left on 16x2 the most part and isotropic filtering is used to ensure textures are proportionate to the screens viewing angle a good example would be a road fading to a vanishing point on the screen where trilinear filtering would become blurry but in isotropic filtering it would retain texture detail in the distance it doesn't uniformly filter textures but instead filters dependent upon each textures location on the screen relative to the camera angle this can have some vrm impact as you sample more times per pixel but it's negligible on modern hardware and you can max this setting out and depending on how they're calculated particle settings are also typically okay to increase in quality if they're physically accurate particles you'll see more strain on the CPU some games have minimal impact from bloom terrain quality these days it just depends on how complex the terrain is all right so that should help with that question next one Ram overclocking Grim 13 asked wondering what exact get of Ram you're using a rip J stream and if you have any recommendations for generally well overclocking performance sticks I know g.skill and their B die memes are highly regarded overall but not sure if I should just try to tune a 3200 CL 14 kit or by 4000 we reason the G scale Trident II black 3600 kit and the reason it did so well is because I clocks at the 4,000 and then I don't think we've by the time this video goes up we should have published it but I also manually tuned every single time and exposed through the EVGA BIOS all of them so you can get a lot of performance if you're willing to sit there for a day and play with every single time and not really worth it for non competitive benchmarking honestly you'll get more performance but when you're tuning stuff at the very like tertiary timings it's it's getting a bit time-consuming and unless you really know what you're doing and I'm still learning so it takes me a long time but just buying a higher-end kit doesn't make it easier though because there's no guarantee at first of all XMP can't fit every timing in it so buying a high-rent kit doesn't mean those tertiary titans will get tuned for you can still have motherboards do really stupid things with timings like run for example RFC or something like that really high and maybe run the Refresh interval really low and and so that's not great but that comes down to the motherboards - so like 46 hundred megahertz kits are kind of a marketing play entirely a marketing play because you need a good bin on the IMC you need a good motherboard hopefully have a good bit on the core as well so now you try to bend to things they're a good core good IMC and the memory and to actually hit 4600 on a kit rated for 4600 is really difficult like it takes manual work in a lot of instances so just buying high-end doesn't make it work necessarily you might love to put the effort in definitely check the motherboard compatibility list for RAM as well but honestly 3200 CL 14 is great and perfectly fine for gaming and all that stuff for what we're doing with times by different scenario but not also completely impractical let's do this one next is nvidia purposefully limiting vram and 'if Underberg asked a while asked what mla a I think for a bit but let me dive into the first question here do you feel Nvidia is purposefully limiting vram to keep the lifespan low some more sophisticated models are unable to run on older cards if so why are we not talking about expandable memory on GPUs if we're okay with a GPU costs are taking two point seven five slots be over a thousand dollars or just have the option to upgrade memory or GPU sockets no we've talked about this in the past but let me take this piece by piece because you have you have some good questions in here and I I think they're all worth addressing so first of all are they purposefully limiting vram the answer to that just that part are they purposefully limiting vram the answer is basically yes but everyone's purposefully limiting different things of the product but now what price point they're trying to hit but specifically for this one I'm going to bring this back to a question we had in patrons asked um last week which is on patreon.com slash gamers Nexus if you want it or someone asked there's a blank there blanke solder pads on the twenty-eighth ETI can i solder GDD our six module to it and have a 12 gigabyte card the answer was no and so in that instance the purposeful limitation is that the full tu 102 GPU can have 72 SM so I'll top my head I think that's what it is and the 20 ATT is 68 and so those extra SMS also impact how many memory controllers there are so you're running with or actually it's it comes out of TBC's and gbc's as well but for the 28 ET i there are 11 memory controllers one per module effectively and there can be a twelfth so if it were a full tu 102 die nothing disabled there could be 12 memory controllers you could have 12 gigabytes of memory or 12 modules I should say so it's just like the Titan X where you have a scenario where there's 12 gigabyte card 1080i is 11 and I know from what one of you actually emailed us and said that for a while anyway some deep learning or machine learning applications really needed the 12 gigabytes memory I think it had to do with how the workload was split or something like that for something popular and so in that instance a 1080i was not viable they needed either divisions of 4 gigabytes were exactly 12 gigabytes and that's where the Titan XP came in so the answer is yes they're limiting it in so far as disabling parts of the core will disable memory controllers which disables your ability to get more VRAM but also if the cards weaker it's being used for gaming blasting out with PRM might not anyway if you need more actual processing power first the next product question socketable GPUs and CPUs or sorry and like CPUs and socketable dims so dims like actual sticks are a big problem you run into like huge latency concerns with something like existing DDR Standards and there are issues with the board space consumed I don't look at how every single I don't have a PCB in front of me but this is the size of the PCB is right and then every single spot on that board is filled with something mostly power regulation where you gonna find the room for slots plus they have latency issues now you have multiple cross compatibility issues timings become a concern because it's not as heavily manually controlled and so it's just it's it's not really viable I don't think we've talked to that before in previous episodes but primarily comes down to board real estate complexity of design circuit traces now are going to be completely impacted where do you put your vrm versus where do you put your memory you want them both to be really close to the GPU but both those things are really big so that's problem stuff like that so I don't think that's gonna happen soccer ball GPUs they have a hell of a lot of of solder points on there so it's it's all I think it's all ball grid array and if you're working with that I fitting pins I guess is doable but I don't know I don't see that happening it becomes too much of a too complex for too small real estate next question why do games have trouble with clipping this is from freedom four or five five six you said regarding your gaming graphics request for console why is it so hard for game developers to make sure nothing clips through geometry in games for example in Mass Effect having weapons on your back clip through the character model or in fallout 4 having the pip-boy clip through the female models forearm during the walking animation is this just a case of there being too many permutations to test or is it just not worth the effort to resolve a bit of both of those but also some more so games try to do this but a lot of games do procedural placement for the feet to make sure neither foot clips through the ground first of all it's possible to resolve these issues but the last two points you had of too many points to check each frame and not worth it to resolve are part of the reason that it usually is not resolved most mesh collisions are simplified to collision boxes or collision capsules which will just limit the checks to one volume instead of multiple verts and if you're able to customize your weaponry in any game maybe like Mass Effect not sure then checking for exact self collisions is way too expensive in terms of processing power and would also require a lot of as you said permutations they would also need to make slight differences to custom animations for each of the weapons in the game to make sure it doesn't clip instead of making one animation and swapping out the mesh or the skeleton for a model for whatever they need so a lot of those are concerns also game play is a big point that is worth discussing because if you're genuinely gonna stop the players weapon from colliding with like a wall it will impact how how close the player can move to the wall impact how they can walk in general because now you've got this big collision box sticking out of you and you can't you need a boolean to cut that weapon into pieces to say like like let's say you wanted to take the approach of let's allow it to clip through the wall but not be visible on the other side like in counter-strike something like that where if if you turn and it's a thin wall or a barrel or something or card or and the weapon goes through the other player can see it maybe even shoot it so if you want to stop that from happening but still allow a full range of movement and not impact gameplay you would need a boolean really expensive to do the basically have to like tessellated or something cut it into pieces and figure out which piece doesn't get drawn so gameplay is part of it really expensive to do is part of it and really expensive in terms of development time is also part of it because it could be a permutations issue highly customizable games like Skyrim for example you'll see that kind of clipping all the time where capes or crossbows on the back for mods or whatever clip through the character part of that's rigging a lot of it is just you'd have to redo the animations for each weapon and that's a lot of work and then there two more quick ones here so this one or hee-ho lamp this this time I brought up just because the r-tx launched how would you actually work per day and what kind of work do you usually do you know these three times talks about it and seems like you work a ton also in conjunction to that what do you or other team members typically do while working for The Cider channel so we have pretty fixed functions Andrew does a lot of the well almost almost all the primary like big review editing filming lights does some 3d animations for stuff like the RAM timings we have more of that coming up soon and also has helped with providing so the game graphics answers things like that - because he's a 3d artist Patrick works on testing so tests the the cases are almost entirely done with Patrick at this point writes the reviews we dump all that into a script do the video so I take his build notes as you notice in the the videos take his build notes I'll modify the thermal section a bit we put it together and put a big review together that way also works on on some other CPU testing things like that then I work on a bit of everything so overall figuring out what we want to produce for content managing it timelines testing for GPUs primarily testing for coolers and all of the administrative stuff that's boring you know accounting all that stuff so a lot of it answering the first private question so for RTX that launch was crazy it was very very poorly organised by Nvidia as well and the partners didn't really know what was going on so that launched over a seven day period I worked 105 hours but like still got sleep in there it's just that there was nothing else except for work and sleep so typically don't do that much but for a really important launch I'll do it and then just slow it down a bit after that but it's always it's it's high it's you know it's more than two full time jobs normally but it's not quite the same perceptually as working two full-time jobs because it's one it's mine I can do what I want and it's also fun so it's like I mean if you work for eight hours you go home and you play games for four hours or something really that's not too different for what I'm doing except all twelve of those hours would be work technically for me it's just that I enjoy all 12 hours of it and yeah I tried to do minimum like 12 14 hours a day minimum and then push more for launches stuff like that last one so this is for a note for the side channel we maybe drop some footage in here too but yun viking asked hasty of him also an avid mountain bike rider or mountain biker and i wanted to ask what would you rank as the top three places you've ever ridden I know you've had opportunities to ride different downhill parks like Whistler with a traveling you do also would there ever be a possibility of a patreon meetups more like Bailey Bike Park not sure how many other patrons are on the East Coast and also enjoy mountain biking but I think it could be a cool way for you to interact with your audience outside of conventions love to hear thoughts I know that um who is it I said Seth I think Seth does those bike meetups I don't have any plans for it but my top three places I got a list Taiwan because Taipei is really cool in general I love it there Taiwan's really cool and the biking is completely different so it's it's like way over growth there way more natural rocky Rudy terrain so it's it's more Trudi H no lifts access you got a you got to pedal it all the way up or a shuttle or something so that's a lot of fun I go with the guy who speaks some English I speak to very little Chinese so between the two of those things we can communicate just enough to talk about like what's coming up on the trail and he'll normally give me a warning like like three meters big drop and that's that's the end of our communication so it's enough to figure out what's going on or tell me about a jump so really like that just because it's different whistler of course is up on the top of the list as well it's it's a gigantic park and then for the third one it's alright that's our hard answer local trails I like chose our local Santa Cruz I like a lot but it's a lot of push and then there's also a mammoth I love riding mammoths like recoil and Twilight Zone there's a really good trails especially with the wall ride so I'm gonna go with probably the trail I can't remember the name of in Taiwan in Taiwan and then Whistler and then let's go with maybe Mammoth kind of tied with Bryce in Virginia for the the top ones snow she's pretty good but it's a huge pain to get to so that kills a lot of it and then the side channel will have more of that hopefully soon I'm trying to set up the old studio it's a better allow for production of some bike content over there so that's the GN Steve side channel go and check that out thanks for watching as always leave your questions below for next week subscribe for more go to patreon.com/scishow and exes to get access to the bonus sgn episode and then I don't know who knows maybe we'll do a bike meetup someday but probably not and then I think that's okay I stored that camera's access not net to pick up one of our products and hopes that directly that you're watching I'll see you all next time