Ask GN 41: Why Do CPUs Have an IHS? & RAM Overclocking
Ask GN 41: Why Do CPUs Have an IHS? & RAM Overclocking
2017-01-25
hey everyone welcome to another episode
of ask Gianna I think we're on episode
41 as always if you have questions leave
them in the comment section below
I've given up on a foot down both I'm
just reading through all of them again
because YouTube doesn't work properly
but before getting to that this content
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first order of business there's a
different shirt I actually have many
shirts you might not know that I think
there are two instances ever we're in a
gamers Nexus video I've not had a GN
shirt on one was an interview with Kent
Smith three years ago in California
about SSDs and preconditioning and then
and write amplification factor the other
one was with Jim Vincent recently when
we were at CES and did a look at his
poor man's laptop setup which was
actually a really fun video speaking of
CES there the first question I should
mention by the way we're playing around
with certain designs so this might be
something or something similar to it
anyway that we end up using as a reward
for patreon backers so folks who
contribute to patreon in the future will
probably add more shirts than the main
one that I normally wear just have to
work out which material to use and stuff
like that this is a much nicer shirt
material so CES questions the one I
wanted to get to John Adamson asked what
was the mic that Steve used during CES
and I actually saw several people ask
this while we were at the show in
comments for multiple videos so this is
not a secret I've talked about this mic
before I've had it for several years now
this was the first piece of audio
equipment that I bought when I was still
setting up all the film and audio and
everything myself so this is at least
three years old now my before I think it
might be four and there's a son Heiser
md 46 when I got it cost me $200 we've
improved it since then by adding a
wireless transmitter for our fairly
expensive Sennheiser g3 wireless
transmitters and receivers but it's been
the same mic
the transmission has changed the mic
itself is what you'd call a reporter mic
or a stick mic I bought it originally
because I was looking at I wanted to
know what was a good reporter Mike we
could use with decent audio quality for
a loud environment so actually what I
did was at the time I went and I looked
at photos of presidential conferences
and looked at the microphones they used
for when the president spoke because I
figured well that should probably be
pretty damn good because it's an
important thing and actually
surprisingly several news outlets used
this one and when I looked at the price
was 200 bucks that was an easy buy
because for audio equipment that's
really not bad and it's obviously lasted
a long time and it sounds pretty good
which we're recording both tracks right
now so this is how it would be talking
at CES or something like that and you
can hear the audio difference between
the lab and the reporter Mike when I
switch between them and Andrew will of
course unfortunately have to silence or
whatever to work with the tracks but
that's the idea so this has really good
quality when you're in a loud
environment which we're obviously not in
right now and on a convention floor with
ten thousand people around us
it isolates pretty damn well every pax
our coverage from the floor there it's
really noisy there we basically have to
yell at each other to hear each other
with the interview subject but the mic
makes it so it all picks up really well
without any of the background noise
being making everything else inaudible
so that's the mic the receiver
transmitter set up is the g3 sort of
bundle I think I paid $600 per unit for
those and the transmitter was something
like 150 and then it's all plugged into
a recording device that we've also shown
in the past and that was another four
hundred dollars or something like that
so it does get pretty expensive pretty
fast
but that's the basic setup fun fact
about this microphone it is now famous
because Linus from - tech tips came over
to borrow it during an AMD video we were
in the AMD suite at the same time at CES
and we finished shooting our video he
came over and said we are
our transaction no I write but you have
the receipt as well what he was like no
I just just all of it I'm sorry I let
him borrow all of it because they had
think they left one of their things in
the room so that Mike is now famous if
you look at his video with Roger Kaduri
about Vega you'll see that blue fuzzy
faint on the mic and now you know you
know the secret next question oh by the
way I'll just point out of course we
work with Amazon Newegg like most other
outlets do if you do like that mic and
you want to buy it you can hit the link
in the description below I'm a big fan
of the mic
I really don't really sort of talk about
things like that but it's audio
equipment it's not part of our core
coverage so that is what I like
next question was from Nome Fick she o
Fichte Co no I'm Fichte CEO says SG and
hey Steve love the work never leave us
please
so how does RAM frequency affect CPU
overclocking I read that having a more
direct multiplier say 10 X 4 20 66 2666
instead of 2800 for instance could
result in an easier time getting those
last few megahertz out of the CPU due to
more stability is that so with XMP how
so why you know the drill
so memory overclocking is not somewhere
I'm an expert in that is of course
plenty of places that's true because
computers are hard and there's a lot of
parts and there's a lot to know so I did
want to answer the question though
because I like the question and wanted
to learn more about myself I sent the
question over to build Zoid who he runs
actually hard core overclocking and
we've recruited him several times for
videos so he knows what he's talking
about builds I'd said first of all the
question the asker said something about
buying the Patriot kit and feeling some
regret and maybe wanting a g.skill kit
instead so I passed that along to builds
right as well he said there with those
specific kits it doesn't really matter
but some Ram multipliers are just
completely broken on some platforms like
x99 lots of boards can't do
X 28 or x 28 on the RAM so you're stuck
with 2666 or 3000 it's pretty much tied
to the cpu memory controller the BIOS
and the board layout I asked him about
z170 and C 270 and build Zoid said on
z170 some of the really high multipliers
are also broken on z87 and z97 if you
want to go over 3000 megahertz you would
generally run a high B CLK with a lower
multiplier rather than trying to run 30x
or higher multipliers and he had a bit
more two more blocks of text to go
through that are all pretty interesting
depending on the platform B CLK affects
literally everything
Hansie 170 the BC LK for the chipset is
separated from the CPU RAM and uncor
base clock but in the past base clock
affected everything from SATA ports to
the CPU core clock and actually you can
see that by just adjusting it yourself
without even applying it and you'll see
some of the other numbers increasing in
BIOS to the nearby us and motherboard he
also said also going back to the RAM it
won't affect your core clock till you
start pushing some really high speeds on
Z 1 so on z170 that would be 38 66 and
up and then further said on X 99 it
doesn't do anything to core clock
because the I think is talking about
base clock doesn't do anything to core
clock because the memory controller
completely gives up before alia
completely gives up before you get
anywhere near speeds that affect the
core so that's a problem with again X 99
we've seen that issue to where you just
can't you can't push the memory that
high with really specific multipliers
and that's exactly what he's talking
about here some multipliers just
straight don't work further set z97 z87
past 24 hundred megahertz some CPUs
start having issues on am3+ 21 33 can be
problematic as for his actual Ram
choices I would probably go for the C
1526 86 G skill kit since G skill
generally has better mobile
compatibility and if he decides to OC
the RAM will probably go higher so
there's the answer to that question I
think that's kind of the quick version
of it but you get the idea
next question is from land strike gaming
who says Steven
having issues with the fans on the XFX
488 gigabytes
gt-r 1338 megahertz and wot man I set
the fans to turn on at 300 megahertz
acoustic level and set the thermal
limits at 55 C and 40 C targets the fans
are not turning on to cool the card when
idle my PC repeatedly displaying a heat
warning at 55 C I try to adjust the
settings in watt man and the fans just
are not responding so I don't have that
exact card but if if you are not aware
most modern GPUs and the and Nvidia like
depending on the AIB partner more than
the GPU vendor but the AIB partner for
most modern GPUs will allow for a zero
rpm idle the ideas no noise and they let
the temperature go up a bit with some
cards like some MSI ones I've tested an
EVGA you can get as high as 65 Celsius
before they turn on and sometimes
depending on the again the partner there
might not be a bypass for that it might
just be a hard 65 C it turns on or 55 or
whatever the number may be and your only
alternative to toggle it completely off
and lose that quiet functionality
altogether so I'm not sure if that's the
exact issue you're talking about I think
I understand and if I do that is all it
is it's not a big deal the fans just
don't spin up if it's under low load the
card is fine it's not being actively
hurt by this temperature of whatever
maybe is 65 70 even it is completely
fine it's just trying to run without any
noise next question is from neo voodoo
tech who says question for next week
Steve what do you think about using a
small fan or heatsink to cool routers
and modems I've recently been
experimenting and found some positive
results for cooling your network
hardware including lower pain and
latency and slightly faster sustained
downloads and transfers this is actually
a really cool idea it's not something
I've done but I have read about it in
the past and so depending on your if
you've got a switch especially like we
use a gigabit switch for internal
transfer when that starts really getting
hammered by multiple computers it does
get pretty hot and the internal cooling
solution is not great so in that
situation adding an aftermarket cooler
even to our internal
it would probably be pretty helpful
because thermals ruin everything once
you get higher heat because it's been
abused for a longer period of time and
it doesn't get a chance to cool down
that's true with pretty much any
electronic you will have performance
degradation does it doesn't matter what
it is and that's either because they
have restrictions built in there to
protect it and make sure it's not
running too hard of a clock rate or
whatever when it's under load or it's
just because there's degradation because
it's becoming unstable or volatile or
whatever and then also of course it's
not great for electronics on a small box
with poor ventilation and a high amount
of utilization to just sit there and
burn themselves through years and years
because eventually you're gonna have
issues where it's just hot all the time
because it's burned through the thermal
paste or the coin components the passive
components have shifted just because of
heat expansion and contraction
constantly I would say it's an
interesting idea I haven't tried it but
I kind of want to now I will say for
routers I haven't had as much well I
should say for for modems which isn't
really what they are anywhere but you
know what I'm talking about the box from
ISP I haven't had as much of an issue
but maybe if we started pushing the
higher one gigabit per second data rates
once that's available maybe that would
actually a problem I don't know but with
my current internet it's just not for
the switch no absolutely that wouldn't
be a bad thing to do because you would
be able to maintain like you're saying
the higher performance because it's not
gonna have the down clock or throttle
itself in order to keep up and keep
temperatures down that's especially true
if you have it in a hot environment or
high ambient next question charlie lee
says why do we need i HS integrated heat
spreader isn't putting a heat sink
dragging on to the CPU more efficient
yes absolutely it is more efficient if
you have no I HS that means basically
anyone doesn't know it's a substrate
that's the green bit and then there's a
dye and then over that is the IHS for
basically a piece of metal that helps
conduct the in theory conduct the heat
from the dye spread it a bit and then
from there the CPU heatsink should be
conducting that and we
talk about that by the way in our TL DR
video on CPU heat sinks there's an
animation everything is pretty cool
check that out
but that's how it works so it would
certainly be more efficient if you had
direct contact and that's what happens
with GPUs if you ever opened a GPU or a
video card I should say you'll see that
once you pull out those four screws for
the heatsink and pull the heatsink off
it's just a straight die there's no IHS
it is far more efficient to have direct
contact you don't have another interface
and between them and it's not just one
interface by the way for an IHS on a CPU
the die doesn't directly talk doesn't
directly communicate its heat to the IHS
it's got to be something in between it's
not a perfect match and the same is true
from the IHS to the heatsink it's got to
have an interface between that interface
is normally a thermal paste sometimes
it's liquid metal found if you view if
you've deleted it or not and we do by
the way I have a d-league kit and I will
be playing around at that pretty soon
but that's the idea so if you have a die
and then thermal compound which the
current generation of KB Lake 7700 K
thermal compound does not look at all
like it's consistent we're still
investigating that but thermal compound
IHS thermal compound by the user or Tim
and then your cold plate that's a lot of
things to go through to get to the cold
plate which is your highest watts per
meter Kelvin conductivity so you don't
want all those interfaces there so why
not just sell a CPU with no IHS if Intel
knows people are gonna put a heatsink on
it because of course why not sell it
that way
the reason is strength primarily because
if you have if you've ever maybe not
deleted but if you go look up YouTube
videos of people trying to deal with
CPUs I'm sure someone's cracked either
the entire thing or the die because
those silicon dies are really weak they
can crack on GPUs and on CPUs very
easily if you're not careful either from
the D LED process itself or from
applying a cooler no IHS does a pretty
good job of protecting that thing and
strengthening it so when you go torque
down the four screws for the cooler on
the motherboard it's not going to crack
anything in theory but the problem
a lot of folks will either use sort of
guerrilla force when they tighten their
things down until they can't physically
turn the driver anymore even though you
only need one or two threads really
locked to have strength and if they do
that then it's just it's not gonna be
good when there's no IHS Mike something
will probably crack no that's gonna be
pens if it's something like an AMD CPU
and you've got no other weak point
although that's not really something you
see a lot or more likely it'll be the
die if it's deleted so that's why the
IHS is on there it does theoretically
conduct heat but I would not say it
helps conduct heat in so far as
improving the thermal transfer
properties it has improved only only as
far as I don't know it's adding more
interface is always bad that's the short
of it the next question Mike or Mikkel
rather Bledsoe says question for Steve
say I have my wireless USB dongle
plugged into the USB 3 header on top my
computer but the speeds aren't
consistent I've moved everything away
from it have it top and Center yet
speeds are still fluctuating a lot would
be better to plug it back into my
motherboard I've had this problem a lot
we use wireless transmitters or just say
the wireless dongle is just for use in
other rooms where it's not hardwired
although I do prefer hardwire but the
the problem is either while one USB
three drivers for those controllers on
the boards depending what motherboard
you have they aren't always that
consistent connection drops all the time
had the problem on most systems I've
built in the last few years at some
point you lose connection and that's
because the controller and the driver
just not being stable it could also be
the key itself
if it's trying to it was just not a high
quality one there's plenty of $20 angles
out there I wouldn't recommend but I've
never had a problem plugging my wireless
receivers transmitters into the back of
the computer straight into the
motherboard that'll be handled more
directly without any external any
third-party controller now with Intel
and their modern chipsets is a bit
different but with the older Andy stuff
or stuff before
usb3 was on board natively through the
chipset that was absolutely a problem
but yeah I tried putting it in the
motherboard and then wiped the drivers
as well and see if that helps next
question
Daniel Otis says could you tell how much
power can the motherboard via Ram
supplies of the CPU by a number of
phases for example X amount of watts per
phase 3 phase v RM is barely enough for
a 95 watt TDP CPU but 5 is good enough
for even a modest overclock it depends
on the components used so that's what
builds oh it does for this I included
this question because we just posted a
video on the gigabyte gaming 7v RM it's
an analysis that he did on the FETs
everything in there and voltage
controllers things like that and you can
learn more about the sort of the what
the phases can handle and how many ABS
can go through it and all that stuff
that's all in that video the short
answer is no there's no hard and fast x
phases equals y amperage or watts or
whatever is just it depends on the
quality of component used finally this
one I really only put in there to make a
note oh well I'm not gonna say that name
so nevermind is worse than I thought
you can go look at the previous video
though and I'm sure you'll see at least
one dumb comment but thank you for
watching as always patreon link in the
post roll video leave questions below to
be included in the next video trying to
do these weekly as we've been doing for
a while now we've got a few shows coming
up but the next big one is not until
Computex before that is PAX East though
but we'll be at home base doing all the
testing until that time so again patreon
link post roll video these tight shirts
might be going out in the future like
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