Gadgetory

hey everyone welcome back to an episode of ask GN it's been a little while with all the video cards and CPUs and things the format of this series if you haven't seen it before is leave a question below or if you're one of our patreon discord members you can leave a question there in the ask GN channel we'll address it if if we get to it in the next video another thing to point out here there's a different set layout than normally we're just kind of playing around with things trying to get the brains going on different options and although this is probably not a permanent set layout this is actually a functional like area where we work so it's part of the actual everyday process but this has given me a few ideas so close up of the future starting out we have some questions about overclocking questions about heat on vrm components things like that some questions that were about a iOS and C LCS will get through all that before getting to those that this coverage is brought to you by EVGA and they're 1080p is c2 which we've recommended fairly highly for its build quality and the icx sensors which are kind of fun to play with you can check our full sc2 review for the 1080i if you're curious to learn more or you can click the link in the description below to find the product page for the 1080i sc2 getting into the content before the first question i've got a box from NZXT is continuing our NZXT story line they just sent another box of things so we've got the crack in G 12 probably reviewing these pretty soon I have to get around to these but we've got a lot of actually I have like three or four other of the liquid cooler video card mods behind me that I can do too so we've got these that came in we have a white and a black model which I believe are the only two that they're shipping but the white one is pretty good for some flare if you've got a white and black case so that might be kind of fun to play around with well get those eventually more importantly than GXE anyway is that they have sent another puck so this is an hour now probably our fourth or fifth puck that they've sent us if you don't alleviating of a storyline well I guess flash in a quick playback of the s340 elite review where i said that the puck was a literally a piece of rubber Magnus's they're very happy about it and it does it my name is Mitch but slightly runagate now and ever since saying that they've sent us lots of pucks so I guess we've got another one I don't know if this one's a different color or not most the others are black and white you know what I've been saying is we should probably just give some of these away on patreon or something like that there's a blue one actually looks pretty good now I'm going to hold my ground and not use it because I said I wouldn't in the review but the blue looks good all right so enough NZXT we've we've encouraged their bad behavior enough a first question is from discord I don't have your name written down but the the question from discord says something I've been curious to get your opinion on if low-noise operation in a gaming rig is a primary goal would you generally recommend an AI be air cooler like the FTW three for example which we just reviewed or an AO hybrid solution should not like any of your GN hybrid builds I don't have a ton of experience with a iOS and I'm concerned about idle noise being a nuisance when working but I've also heard that I don't always on modern a iOS is negligible and there are only benefits to put in na IO on the GPU during gaming what would you suggest so there's a good question we talked about this a bit with a Titan XP hybrid mod where one of the tests I ran had the radiator fan at 40% in the VR I'm fat 22% and temperatures were great they're better than the stock card but if you run it at 100% out of the box which is what it's going to do then it's definitely pretty loud the a IO is like the one on this mod we have here which is a what is this 1080i I think might be a 1080 but this one we've got the EVGA radiator on it these are kits you can buy for a hundred bucks they come with a shroud which we obviously didn't use this band does run a bit loud when it's out of honor percent which is going to be basically all the time so the solution is when you buy one of these kits you you replace the fan or you run an extension cable to the fan and you plug it into the motherboard instead and then you can control your fan speeds of it better so what we've done is set it to like 40 percent the temperatures are still around 50 C they're lower than an air cooler and they're quieter they're less than 40 DBA I think in our testing for the Titan XP but you can view those results for more on that so the idle noise though that is going to be limited again I mean your noise is basically the same no matter what because unless you get like a PWM fan and build a curve for it you're running out of fixed percentage so your Idol is going to be the same as your load noise so if you have 39 DBA then that's definitely going to be louder than something like an FC 2 or an F CW 3 or any non EVGA card like Twin Frozr cards when they spin down to zero rpm under no-load you're going to be louder than those cards so if your noise floor is like 26 DBA and you have a bunch of passive or nearly passive components then the only thing making noise is going to be the radiator fan and so yes that would be louder the pump noise itself I don't notice it I know people who say they do you could definitely notice it if you mount this incorrectly or if you're just unlucky maybe like if you take one of these and mount it at the bottom of your case you got the video cards like that and this is down there that is an advisable because now I you get well actually I'll talk about this more in one of the questions in here but now your barbs are going to be kind of near an air pocket potentially so that would suck air through and create noise but to answer your question of noise levels it comes down to tuning the fan curve what I like to do personally is like with our render machine I would take something like this like a hybrid mod the I why approach manually well swap the fan with something better plug it into the motherboard and then build a curve in the motherboard if that permits you to and then at that point you can hopefully run nearly idle with nearly zero rpm idle and you would have way lower load load noise levels lower temperatures maybe slightly louder idle noise level is not a bad trade overall so that's kind of my thoughts on it next question I believe also from discord serpent xsf says sgn question on the gigabyte or scarred Extreme Edition or not what was you though this is referring to our review what was he used to overclock it afterburner or as graphics engine any others what if any would you recommend using to overclock also I agree no point in buying a car that a 750 plus as all of the cards 1080i are borderline on thermal power limit anyway so the first part of this is what do we use to overclock the auras card I think we probably use afterburner but may have been precision depends on whichever was the newest at a time they're really all the same for the most part I use I you have to use precision for these EVGA cards with icx stuff otherwise you're not going to get anything out of the thermistors because afterburner and none of the others they don't recognize them they don't know that they exist so you have to use precision for the icx cards really other than that it doesn't matter a whole lot it's just kind of which interface you feel like is the best or which one's the most up-to-date afterburner is good you need to make sure you go into the settings and toggle a few of the things before really getting into it like the voltage control and limitations which you're facing on you with Pascal I do like afterburner because it's I guess I'm just familiar with it that's really all comes down to it would like with any other tool precision I use for icx cards after we're never pretty much everything else it doesn't matter a whole lot because at the end of the day you're tuning the same options really no matter what it's just you know where are they in the UI next the next part of this what would you recommend I mean after in a precision whatever you feel like I guess next question was from oh it's actually the same question from a YouTube commenter whose death grip fan said when you and the crew at Jian overclock your PC is what programs do you use check stability of your OC and when do you consider it to be a stable OC so I've got you the the tools for GPUs for CP as I use BIOS on a UEFI exclusively I don't use Raisa master or any other NOS altar because I don't trust it bios only for me in terms of testing the stability there are a few options so for memory you can there are some crunching crunching tools we use when doing the memory training for Rison and like pi tools which calculate pi or find values those are good for memory overclocking because they like super Pi I think is one of them we may have used those are good because they find instability very fast and if that's all you're searching for is AI is it unstable and if so I need to reboot and change the settings then that's a good tool for CPUs and GPUs GPUs I will burn in on a few different tools so I actually find that games are a little bit better at finding instability on GPUs and synthetics so 3dmark will not always find instability whereas The Witcher 3 does every single time so my overclock with a GPU might look fine in 3d mark but then we run the Witcher 3 or something like that or Ghost Recon wildlands and it crashes in like a minute and that's just because of how the clock is enumerated so fur mark is another great example with fur mark you can really make it look like your offset is stable and that's because one fur mark is seriously stressing the power component so your clock doesn't boost as high so the offset doesn't push it as far and to if you look at the clock it is a fixed clock rate infirm arc non-stop so if you're at like 2012 its 2012 megahertz the whole way through with no real dips whereas in game you get spike units and that spike enos is when you can encounter instability so fur mark is not a great tool for stability testing with overclocking in my experience I would use a mix of three work stress tests during an initial setup and then games on loop to finalize things CPUs in the past I've used prime95 quite a bit I'm starting to move away from it a little bit at this point but prime is still good Linpack access or linux is good not Linux but Linux some tools like that basically anything that generates a lot of heat now they do stress them so like some will do AVX testing whereas others might not that's the difference depend on what you're testing for your overclock but hopefully that gives you a couple tools to look into next question is Fitz WM this looks like at this cord one whereas death-grip fan was a youtube question Fitz WM says that not sure this asked the end material but hey I got a great deal on 1080i a 1080 hybrid kit from a friend I was thinking about modding the shroud for my Ti I know I don't need it but hey new things I don't have a dremel though and I've never used one before how hard is it is there a kit you'd recommend for a noob I've used Dremel for case mods a lot in the past I used to do a lot of case mods before we really did YouTube videos I have used them on bikes a lot I've used them on computer parts a lot the Dremel is a great tool to have around I'm not going to really I'm not going to recommend specific kits but generally just from glancing through Amazon a lot of the 100 to 120 dollar kits look like good starters the one I have I think was about 200 bucks and it's had absolutely no problems at all I think it's actually just a dremel like brand dremel kit this is just replaceable bits you swap the bit to something that will cut the material you're cutting better than whatever's on there and you should be good to go it's great to use tiny small rotating saw more or less and if you're trying to cut through something like this that's probably exactly the right tool to do because you could if you have the original like top part of the shroud you'd basically cut a hole right here where these the tubes are cut a hole out and route it through there it shouldn't be a big deal next question is uh we've got two options here let's go with this one first so roarson said on discord with the drastically reduced temperature is using the hybrid mod does that have any long-term implications as to how long the cards last I would assume being able to remove a large amount of heat might mean that the solder joints on the cards are less stressed I see broken solder joints all the time especially on electronics from around 2006 or so when the switch to lead-free solder was me while it's less of a concern these days I still think thermal transients wreak havoc on solder joints from what I've seen so I would think keeping the GPU much cooler would help long term life of the card I understand this is a complex question it can't be practically answered yes that's we've talked about this before thermal impact on product life is really hard to measure there are formulas you can use the companies that do is kind of testing like actual stress testing an ASA tech for example does it on their coolers they accelerate it and we did this at Dell when I was there too you basically you have chambers different ways to do it so where I worked there was a shock and vibe you have shock and vibration tables that just hammer the crap out of the product to try and see if it'll break from different amounts of known force there were drop testing rigs you see if they break from different drop Heights things like that and then there were also a thermal chambers and so the Chamber's that I've worked with in the past or I've seen at most of the companies we work with today they do hot and cold testing so they put these products through various hot and cold cycles to cycling them faster than you would in real life because the seasons change at a very slow pace so I cycle them for different environments like you might be testing for ruggedized species that will go to the Middle East or for PCs that might go to the Arctic or something like that what they also do is they run thermal cycles to stress test for how heat might impact components over time where you have expansion and contraction of things on the card as it's going through these hot and cold cycles because if you burn up to let's say 9 DC on a component or a bunch of components on the board and then you cool down rapidly to something like 50 C or maybe even down to ambient to be turn it off that's going to at least have some impact on on how the components on the board are reacting to the temperature so the way they normally do it is hot and cold cycling now that means that I don't have a good answer for you because doing this kind of testing without a large sample size and a long time and a lot of equipment is basically impossible to answer how long will this survive versus the air-cooled variant I don't have an answer for you that said I think both will probably outlive the usable life of the system which is ultimately what you're looking at so if you're building a computer and you tend to replace even in something like five years the the reference card or the liquid-cooled card will outlive that service life the one place that might not be true is this radiator you'd pod replace had about five years but otherwise I don't I don't think the extra life you get from running cooler will necessarily be noticeable maybe if it's in a super long deployment or you hope to pull it off a shelf at ten or fifteen years later it would matter but I have no reasonable way of predicting that for you running cooler is generally better for most components except pains like flash with an end but how much better is it hard to say next question Jessica Gifford said Steve you mentioned when installing an a i/o cooler vertically to put the tubes going at the bottom for quieter pump noise so what I'm wondering is if you install it going at the bottom or if you install the AIO cooler horizontally at the top of the case with tubes pointing down how does it that effect the pump compared to vertically as described so I've spoken to a few people about this like suppliers to better understand this over the years this is more an issue with cl cs and a iOS then with open-loop coolers point that out first and the theory is that the air should sit higher than the Barb so if you've got the tubes aiming down the barbs are here so these are our Barb's they've got flanges in them too so barb sit there you want the air to be in a place where it's not just going to get sucked through because one there's always going to be air in the loop no matter what it's not a perfectly closed system to over time there's permeation as I just said these tend to get replaced in about five years so as it permeates you'll get more air in the loo and you want the air to be higher than the barb because if it's mounted down at the bottom of the case you're you're fighting you're fighting the the risk of sucking air into the loop so tubes aiming up we'll run into significant problems as stated by the manufacturers themselves but with the tubes down the air should be at the top of the tank basically floating up with a liquid below it so liquid should not be impeded by the air that's that's really the idea now Tan's your question when it's mounted like this versus like this it doesn't really matter like this is bad you don't want the tubes on top generally speaking if you try it out the pump noise will probably be lessened with the tubes like that on the bottom but if you're looking at vertical mounting like this or horizontal if you'd prefer to look at it that way this it doesn't matter it's because the tubes are down there's going to be up so you're fine it's really only when you're mounted this way that orientation matters a lot and don't install them at the bottom so that's all for this one they're plenty more questions has been a while but please feel free to post your questions in the comment section below if you are a patreon back or at patreon.com slash gamers Nexus you can join our discord chat it should send you to instructions on how to join if not there's an old post that has a link to it and then you can post questions nasty in section where I check them every episode and I also check the contact in every episode so as always thanks for watching a store doc gamers nexus net if you want to check out our new shirts including the tribe lens of the GN graft logo subscribe for more as always I'll see you all next time you