Gadgetory

they run we're back for another episode of ask GN you can leave questions in the comments below or if you're a patreon backer there's a discord channel called ask GM leave your questions there we check the comment section and discord every time for questions for the video we have some good ones this time one particularly about the EVGA hybrid kid I've seen a lot of people ask this question about the pump making - noise we've got a solution for you on that that's a common question and then a couple of other interesting ones it's about air versus liquid cooling about why NVIDIA has moved away from increasing voltage like they used to allow on older cards things like that before getting to that this content is brought to you by v1 tech comm the UN tech makes the custom back plates on the table we've got an asus rog Strix one here that was on our 1080 TI and then this is a reference board design with an EVGA backplate so they make those if you like the custom back plates you can go to V want a calm and use code gamers Nexus 5 the number 5 for 5 dollars off I believe these sell for about $40 with the cheaper ones starting at around 25 pretty cool stuff you want to blend out your PC a bit in an easy fashion so check them out they are a new advertiser of ours getting to the first question we've got one from aundrea Busha who says hopefully it's on the right says my EVGA hybrid kit has horrible coil whine nodes is it the same or it is the same used for GN hybrids bounty' face so that really really pulled at my heartstrings with the frowny face there yeah so the hybrid kits the thing really any of the pumps that don't have variable fan or pump rpm can produce a pump whine it's not the most common thing at least it's not the most common thing people complain about because normally your fan noise is higher than the pump noise especially depending on the case if you have like a foam damped case then you're probably even better off you're less likely to notice but that's not the best solution the best solution is just to not have the noise in the first place so we don't normally hear the pump whine noise out of the liquid coolers that we've tested lately there are some instances where I'll pick it up like some of the the older non-branded a Sutekh pumps as they age after a year or two of abusive use they might start making some noise just from the pump rpm being higher but you can lower it and that noise goes away the same applies for the EVGA hybrid kit the problem with that though is that in order to lower the noise on the the hybrid kit pump or any other like a Seahawk they're all the same to lower the noise on those since they are CLC's if you recall installing it they plug in through a basically a splitter so the pump and the vrm fan plug into the same cable and then that plugs into GP power so on one of these there's one cable for the GPU fan power it plugs in there and that controls both the pump and the vrm fan which would be the circular blower fan so that means that there's no you can't you have no access to the RPMs through this so you have to go into the motherboard the way to do this there's a about a $10 cable you can buy might be a bit less and the cable is a very specific one on one end it's a GPU fan header so it's I think it's a four pin and it's that weird shape and spacing pin spacing that the GPU fans use it's not the same as a case fan one end is that the other end is the normal case fan header it's either a three or four pin and you can plug that into the motherboard I'll try and find a link for it and put it in the in the description below if I can find it but they're about ten bucks and what you do is you'll have to take a back part actually don't have to take all of it apart you would take let's see if we take this off these are magnetic by the way so pretty easy to install but these you know pretend there's a pump here you would take this part off so it's not that hard you just unscrew these and pull that off of there and you'll have to fight it a little bit because you're not doing it from scratch but then you can remove the the header that's plugged into the board and at that point you you can plug that into the extender cable plug that into the motherboard and then my suggestion is run the run it through DC power set it to about 90% once you have 90% the wine should be gone that it runs slower or slow enough comparatively that the pump line pretty much goes away and you don't lose a ton of cooling ability because really the pump speed 90 versus 100% all you're doing is changing how fast the liquid is moving through the cold plate area so that can impact temperatures but as we've said in the past it's not necessarily a huge amount certainly not enough to care about when you're already subbed 60 C maybe even close to 50 C or less depending on the card you're cooling so hopefully that helps basically buy the cable plugged into the motherboard set DC power to the pump to about 90% you can go a bit lower if you have to but just play around in that range and find one where the noise goes away or it's inaudible compared to your system fan noise and then I would also recommend either plugging the EVGA hybrid radiator fan of the motherboard or buying a different fan plate into the motherboard and controlling that through PWM or DC power as well rather than off the video card which will run it at higher speeds than necessary to keep a reasonably cool temperature and then you'll have a really damn quiet video card it will be quiet quieter than air-cooled cards at that point except for perhaps idle and your vrm fan can go back into the board power next question is Micah Mitchell who says why were power limits on put on the Pascal architecture specifically it seems that the 1080 series is amazing but the only thing holding it back and overclocking is the voltage limitation as a bonus how would you speculate the overclocks to be if there were no limits how much the difference would it really make so for the first part of the question anyone who's around for Kepler and Kepler 600 series and Fermi 400 series you may remember that at that time there were a lot less restrictions on voltage so you could you could set your voltage offset a bit higher you could well power wasn't power wasn't all that much different but the voltage offset was so the thing that chains is basically too many people we're over holding their cards to a point where they really shouldn't have been either because they didn't know what they were doing or they hadn't yet as a community figured out what the safe voltage was for the card so they're over vaulting it which is somebody did for overclocking anyway it's just a matter of how much and the cards didn't have the the strict protections that they have now where now you can drive that slider up to 100% of voltage it's not going to kill you a card they're not going to let you drive voltage up in any real capacity that will damage the device in fact you'd set at 100% run it for its entire life and it's it'll live just as long as if you set at 0% the reason that it is just give a primer on Pascal first is because when you change the voltage permitted to Pascal and overclocking tools it's not actually over volting it it'll draw the same voltage as if you left it alone all it's doing is well it refills mostly just gives you something and psychologically to feel like you have an effect or what the cards doing but I've heard some people say that it does in creases the speed at which the voltage is supplied to the GPU at with the speed at which it's made ready for use but that doesn't really change a whole lot of them quickly ramp into boost clocks and the difference is not going to be that great especially if you're gaming for more than a few seconds anyway so that doesn't do a whole lot but 400 series 600 series it did a bit more especially the 400 series and if you look around on forums what you'll see is a whole bunch people overclocking their Fermi or kepler cards really high but particularly Fermi I don't remember a - well how how far Kepler was going but Fermi I believe I remember that one going high regardless one of them over volted pretty high over clocks pretty high as a result peeled post their numbers and then you see them coming back some time later and they their card it died or they had some kind of issue as because they're revolting it way too high at least for the the stock configuration how people like build Zoid the pro overclock we work with people like him they can deal with that no problem one they're probably testing short period of time - they might be using exotic cooling or just better cooling in general and three they have a damn good idea what they're telling the pro overclockers so there's big difference there between that scene and an enthusiast so because on video doesn't cater to the pro overclocking scene they basically just got rid of over vaulting in any capacity that could damage the card which unfortunately means that you also lose some of the overclocking capacity so there's a bit of a trade people like us where we're perfectly happy to over volt it if it means getting a higher clock we lose out and I'm sure that's true for a lot of you as well because you either don't care about killing the card or if you do you just are more careful about how much you over volt didn't check guides and things so you miss out you get a lower voltage as a result but the consumer as a whole is more protected so it's one of those things of how much do you need the company to protect you from your own stupidity versus how much how are you willing to take responsibility for it if you go a step too far and then video decided to protect the customers from their own stupidity so that's what that's largely why those voltage limitations exist now and if you look around there's really not a lot of over voltage to death stories about Pascal they probably die from something else instead like a bad component somewhere so I think that covers that how much of a difference would it make you're asking if this were not a thin we've been looking into this so I'm not going any promises not sure when we can do this but build Zoid has talked a bit on our channel about doing shunt mods where you you short the shunts out with liquid metal you could solder them but it's safer to do liquid metal and there's really tiny shunts on the side of the node on the right side of the card near the pin out and you can short those with liquid metal in theory that screws up the voltage and power detection on Pascal GP is enough where you can actually get some extra power out of it beyond what it would normally allow you to do so that's something we're looking into no promises on if or when it will happen but theoretically you could look at people who have done the shunt mods see what their overclock is and see how far they've gone I believe there's a gtx n6 that was a Galax card that went beyond not sure I'll top my head I want to say when 2100 2200 megahertz which is pretty far for a 10-6 I want to say was 2200 but they even higher actually but either way there's how people pro overclockers with the right tools and the right knowledge who can hard mod insane to go pretty far now how long does it live I don't have an answer for you on that and a large enough sample size but hopefully that gives the basic understanding next question is from SSG Smith who actually let me let me look at these lessons I believe all of the the previous two questions were from YouTube directly we've got some discord ones coming up SSG Smith 51 says so long story short I deploy early next month next year with the US Army I want to get a gaming laptop so when I have some downtime I can forget them in our hot insanity place by playing games or watching movies my question is what should I be looking for in a gaming laptop that would be durable and cool enough that I can use it in the desert without sand or heat destroying it this encompasses not only build quality but also how it cools and how much heat it produces Thanks so first of all that is a really interesting question and it's a difficult one to really find a perfect fit for because that that would be the one of the most extreme environments you could possibly take a laptop into aside from maybe the Arctic we've got the opposite end of the problem so there are ruggedized pcs they're called if you look for the word ruggedized PC I don't know if that's a trademarked word from Dell or other people you too but they those exist they are laptops that are built like tanks they are normally used or or made specifically for applications like military I believe police and fire use them and things like that so ruggedized pcs would be the place to start now the problem is I look through these a bit for you and most of them that are out there do not have a gaming grade GPU in them which kind of makes sense because with a ruggedized PC you're enclosing the thing so much armor which is to keep dust out some of them are fireproof or at least five resistance and and then they can with withstand all kinds of drop force and shock and vibe issues and things like that so because of all that it means that they have restricted ventilation normally it means that they have pretty bad battery life because they're running warmer and so they don't only put a DGP you in there so that's problem for gaming there are a few out there I don't know a whole lot about them so I'm not going to name them but there are ruggedized pcs specifically Dell makes a few of them and then there are a few other vendors as well I've seen I don't know anything about their products now if you're looking for a more standard laptop the problem is ruggedized I've kind of listed most of them no DDP you for the most part if someone knows of one though please link it below but the other problem is they are expensive so they can withstand a whole hell of a lot of abuse but you keep drive cars over sound that's how a beefed-up there it won't crack the screen or anything but they're expensive because of that so if you're more of a consumer and paying for it yourself really what you have to look out for is where is the ventilation on the laptop so I would look around at a few miles we've mostly tested MSI stuff lately I don't know that they would be the best for use in the desert but a lot of laptops have either intake in the bottom or intake through the back or sides it just it depends on what it's either it's one of the others either bottom intake or its back or side intake around the display and I would say look at where the intakes are and consider doing your own dust filter mod by like a really fine dust filter we don't have any cases around me with one on it but some of the cases like I think the I want to say T 400 there's a couple others that have those really fine magnetic dust filters get one of those and cut it to size and see if you can mod the laptop and shove that in into the ventilation port maybe get rid of whatever's in there default because the ones that they put in there they are they're ok for things like cat hair or large pieces of dust but those still get some laptops as you all so put a finer dust filter and do a mod on it and that should help I don't know that it will keep sand out that's pretty fine but it'll keep a lot of the other stuff out so that would be an approach where you kind of DIY a solution without going hardcore ruggedized pc and other than that you're probably gonna want to be plugged in all the time if it's possible because these don't have great battery life keeping it cool enough is going to I think to keep it cool is largely going to be to keep it free of sand and dust so you may may be a decent idea to grab a tool kit if you have enough down time to spend 40 minutes every couple months and clean the thing out we've got those I fix of tool kits that have every screen you could want through a gamers nexus coupon codes so if you want to do that you can grab one of that through our old advertisements and sponsorship something we've got links on the channel but that's what I would do because it's cheaper and DIY means you can you can fine-tune it to your needs I would probably try and reduce the amount of intake through the bottom though of a laptop and keep it elevated if you can next question is no twist or not nah twist no twist says this from discord says tall question for sgn regarding error versus water cooling what makes a 120 millimeter CLC more effective than a heat sink fan combo at cooling something's a very fundamental question of kind of interesting considering high end GPU heat sinks seem to have more nickel plated copper compared to the aluminum finned radiators used in standard PLC's when it stands a reason that the heat sinks would be better overall dispersing heat seems the primary use for CLC is redirecting the heat but honest you're using mini ITX for ambient pounds might be an issue it does doesn't seem like it would matter definitely FTW three are similar cards up through 100 millimeter fans or still one 120 millimeter found on the radiator which should allow quieter operation by running the fans at lower rpm maybe I'm missing something so this is all well accounted for these are all the fine points that we mentioned and reviews now let's see they had an addendum I know the argument of how the block itself is copper and water is better heat dissipation than air but some still requires it radiator to actually cool the liquid the efficiency seems bottlenecks by the radiator materials even if it's copper so regarding that all it does is redirect the heat that's pretty much what any heat sink does in these things its entire job is to get the heat off of the GPU and out into the case or into the world that said there's a few things here that should answer this get get you on the road to understand what's going on the first one is that what what is being quote so with the hybrid cards you are cooling the GPU silicon itself and you've got your pump wraps through or tubes wrapped through cool the GPU silicon and the radiator spits it out of the case but how are your vrm is cool how's your beer am cold that is cooled by the base plate still and by the blower fan that's on the card probably so that's the first thing the non hybrid version of that the stock version uses a heat sink to cool the GPU and still use the base plate to cool the vram and the VRMs and it's using one fan to cool all of those things and and you've got sort of greater saturation we'll say of the cooling ability of that stock cooler especially on the I'm talking reference cards here right now on the reference cards so there's a lot more heat in a smaller area which changes one the heat that we measured on the vram because there's more surrounding heat and to sort of the thermal density so to speak of just that block area directly around the GPU that's going to run warmer anyway so that's what first thing is what are they coin the liquid cooled cards don't normally but do sometimes cool the vrm in the vram so that means that your temperatures are going to be more controlled because that pump is really only responsible for one thing whereas the rest of the card is handled by the the normal baseplate in the fan the next thing this is more of a fundamental thing to a couple more things actually let's start with thermal conductivity liquid has the greater thermal kansai to even air so you've got a well end to add to that the inside of the pump the cold plate has a whole lot of surface area those micro friends are really dent so it's it's got more surface area than it might seem it's deceptive and because the liquid is going through there we've got better thermal dissipation potential than with air your thermal conductivity is higher so it runs through gets rid of the heat a lot quicker one demand pump rpm but just because of the thermal conductivity in general and then it's got a higher specific heat capacity liquid that is then air does so this means a few things one of them that's not commonly discussed is that liquid cooling solutions have a better ability to soak thermal changes so if you have if you ever benchmark a cpu heat sink or CPU cool or whatever and you look at the temperatures of the CP diode you'll see that there are occasionally spikes that are really high and then they come down it doesn't matter if it's a 7700 K or something else it just happens with liquid coolers they can soak those spikes a bit better because the liquid takes longer to heat up than air might for example and it's if you have a large volume of liquid then even better you can deal with the changes in an integrator way and the higher specific heat capacity does help in that regard as well you take longer to reach a steady state as well with the liquid cooling than with air cooling and I think that probably covers most the basics that I've got written down for notes anyway that I that I can think of but yeah so the radiator fan goes pretty fast as a ton of surface area in that there's surface area on the cold plate that helps out liquid gets the heat up and out of that hot spot very quickly because of the pump rpm goes through the radiator you've got a pretty good amount of liquid in there and it's cooled and then recycled so that's the biggest thing and then the next biggest thing is that you're not cooling every single component on the card which is a big deal as well I think that helps though if you all learn more about this stuff I've mentioned him before VSG from thermal van he's he knows this stuff in an app so he would be someone to look to for more information last question is from beau key or bow seat or beau cheat I don't know how to say a name it's how my Dischord as well I'm gonna go with beau key asks sgn questions how do you cope with senior AMD analysts a snowflake around the office don't things go missing all the time the answer is yes the other day I found a thermocouple cable that had wandered away from its post because it seems like the kind of thing that she thought needed further analysis in the durability Department I guess so yeah things go missing sometimes we can deploy very strategically deploy things like twist size to redirect your attention in the event of an audit that's all for this one as always you can go to patreon.com/scishow and through there you can join our discord server where we get more of these questions and try to pull them into this as well if you're interested in the ads lately we still have a coupon code with iFixit that's active and good I affixed icons for scammers Nexus and use code gamers Nexus or v1 tech v1 tech economy is gamers Nexus for the code gamers X is 5 rather and subscribe for more I'll see you all next time you