Gadgetory

everyone welcome back to another episode of ask GN if you have questions for the next one leave them in the comment section below or you can join our patreon discord by going to patreon.com/scishow Murs nexus and posting a question the SDN section before getting to some of the discussion and questions for this week we have another gift to open from NZXT who have contributed such things as the puck or the puck is this more of them but you get the idea they send a lot of these so the newest gift is on the bat it's a shirt on the back it says I'm txt with their new logo I guess they're new font on the front is a reference to a clip hunter in the Taiwan digital marketplace when a friend of the site came by and said to us we're just lucky you're here and that cliff by the way a lot of people in the college in that video that was for the digital marketplace blog a lot of people didn't get that that guy even though we had a subtitle for it is actually a friend of the site and here's a screen around with us and everyone speaks another language around you so you hear someone nail something in English it's already enough of a catch and then they say something like gamers next it's me like whoa so it was a good attention grab but no actually was not just a random jerk but oh yeah they sent us this so I thank you and EFT for the thermal paste cleaning rag will put good use to it I have a lot of CPUs and GPUs that really need to get a good scrub so I'm planning on soaking this in alcohol and then using it to clean things off and probably burn pretty well after that tear so thank you for the shirt though I really appreciate it and before anyone freaks out and thinks that NZXT is being really rude it's just playful humor but thank you that's looks pretty cool so that is the gift and then before we get the rest of it this content is brought to you by EVGA and their CL C kit you can buy one of the EVGA hybrid kits to convert one your ten series video cards into a liquid-cooled card as we've done a dozen times by now if you're curious to learn more click the link in the description below so the first thing I wanted to show off just briefly for stuff that is to come we just got this in as in ordered last night and had it one day shift so this is going to allow us to clamp current so it's a current clamp we can actually now take more accurate power readings of what's going on for example through EPS 12-volt cable so we'll be able to clamp those and have a full video on it at some point be able to get more accurate readings for the power draw rather than just straight from the wall and that will allow us to see how much power exactly is going through something like a V RM for the next $2.99 motherboard which is a hot topic right now this was a good reason to get into more accurate power readings oh really there's a lot to discuss with X 299 and that leads into the next topic which is rush to launches so before we get into the questions again kind of front-loading these with discussions lately rush launches X 299 was certainly rushed there is is clear as day that the motherboard vendors didn't have enough time almost just like Rison release they all kind of complain to us they didn't have enough time and the CPUs didn't really have enough time to get information out there technically as to what they're supposed to do who they're supposed to target how they're supposed to work and there were a couple problems now they're not the worst CPUs ever don't don't take it out of out of bounds but I know 7900 X is still a damn good CPU but there's a whole we have a whole big review on that talking out all of its ups and downs like thermals and power and on the upside the insane multi-threading capabilities because 20 threads of course it's going to do well in multi-threaded tasks but that's not without its downsides the point though to address here rather than just reira view the entire chip which if you want to get in more depth on either of those points look at the review and argue with us in those comments because this isn't the place for that the point is rush launches are a bit of a trend right now Vega is another one so Andy said they would ship Vega in quarter two and they they shifted about a day or two before the end of the quarter just like a paper written an hour before duty and it shows Vega is not the worst thing to ever happen either same thing as Intel's X 299 they both have their ups and downs Vegas downs right now are largely relegated to the obvious rushed aspects things like driver stability and things like functional software like Radeon settings or even just general marketing and that's the point I want to mention here so the card as people keep copying and pasting at the comment forms is not a gaming card we spent five minutes discussing that in the Vega f/e review but the thing to talk about here is that when you generally have a not a gaming card you brand it something differently and Andy has done something very interesting that with Vega they liked the architecture name so much as they've said that they took the name Vega and they applied it to the video card series whereas normally you have Polaris and you have rx series cards they weren't rx Polaris they were rx 400 rx 500 and so on but this is rx Vega or Vega F II both have Vega in the name and this is where it seems like an uphill battle that Andy has created for themselves for marketing where Vega frontier Edition is because it leads the RX Vega launch is going to kill some of the search potential for our Vega because you now have people looking up Vega and what's going to come up Vega Fe will come up unless it's launched they have arts Vega in which case Google will prioritize prioritize those reviews but Vega Fe will come up and if people aren't informed and don't understand where that card is marketed it will reflect negatively on Vega as a whole even if it's not meant to be marketed to those searching users maybe gamers for example because it's going to come up with bad gaming performance compared to the price and even if it's not meant for gaming that's what they're going to be faced with so you've got one good shot to launch new products and after that point the people who are not day-to-day enthusiasts like most of you don't necessarily keep up with this stuff so they see Vega Fe and they already have an opinion on where it sits and that's why we spent five minutes talking about what the card is for in the review but another point here the interesting aspect is that the high-end card is Vega Vega Fe the gaming high-end card is rx pega and presumably other cards will be Vega variant names as well so there's a chance for confusion you lose some of the halo effect marketing whether it deserves it or not I was only like Titan I owned a Titan everyone knows where that sits on the stack but if you own Vega that doesn't really necessarily mean anything once the other Vega cards come out so you lose some marketing potential there and then Andy also has a history of changing their names and losing some of the we'll call it momentum for no nomenclatures like the r9 series r7 series which superseded the HD series I believe they're called hd7000 for example series so they have that history of changing the names this time it's just a weird change and the only point of this kind of discussion offshoot is to say that the naming is going to hurt the product marketing overall because Vega epi will be attached to rx Bega whereas something like Titan XP is kind of distant from GTX even though like many of the other sites when we reviewed it we said this is not a good buy for gaming because it's just it's way too expensive you could buy a 1080p eye and have basically the same performance but that card is at least distant by name and branding whereas Vega Fe is kind of the same boat in terms of naming so there's going to be an uphill battle a hill that Andy has built themselves that trying to claw back and understanding a product positioning for rx Vega versus Vega that's really the only point of being this up and I bring it up because there are a lot of questions we had that we're like we posted that Vega content and people are saying wait Vega launched what like and the reason that people didn't hear about launching is because it wasn't market to them it wasn't marketed to gamers so there's this confusion of like wait a minute this is out and that's because RX failure comes later but it has the same name hence the confusion whereas if it were if a Quadra card launches you don't really have confusion in the gaming market or of a fire Pro card launches rwx as they call it now same thing the gaming buyers don't say way to make that launched because it's not relevant to them so very interesting choices on angie's part we'll see how our expect lays out no commentary on performance there yet we just we don't have it so there's no point in speculating as we've said since the review of Vega epi but we do have more comment content on Vega coming up with the FE card including the rest of the thermal results from the hybrid mod ok so enough of that we'll talk more of that with the content on Vega as it continues with actual product first question is from a travel entity travel NT who posted on I believe YouTube I don't know this month this was youtuber discord but the question was asked GN curious if you're using liquid metal deleting the CPU or on a GPU would it be ok to use a thin thermal pad around to keep it in keep it contains a liquid metal that is as long as it's not thicker than the dye itself so basically the question here is if you're applying liquid metal which is liquidy as the name suggests to the service of a die how do you contain it from spilling over onto the substrate and the answer is just apply a really thin layer and then if you're still concerned you can use tape I wouldn't use their own patch for this but if you're concerned you could tape off the substrate portion with something like masking tape or electrical tape and spread your liquid metal on it if there is over spill then you can just pull the tape off what I would recommend is before going even that far play around first with a and analog for the CPU so rather than just going straight to apply and liquid metal on to the thing that you care about just apply it on some other non important plastic surface maybe so you can get a feel for how it spreads and how much you need to cover that surface and then go from there because that will give you an idea of how much is required next question jl rockefeller says i've been watching so that I've been watching Silicon Valley lately and even in there they are making fun of people who got duped into bi and VR what happened to all the hypes this is the same as the whole 3d bubble I'm not up to speed on the fourth season but I didn't hope you're talking about so VR we had to opinion pieces on VR before getting into the objective benchmarks the first one was this thing is really cool that was when valve showed it off at the steam booth at GDC two or three years ago and was the first time I played around with anything like that so that it was a really cool experience but it was an experience it wasn't a gaming experience like actually playing a video game it was just a cool thing to do once and then after that all the booths we went to for the previous two years everyone was asking do you want to try our VR whatever and the answer was always no no I don't want to try I want to talk to you and understand the product I don't want to put the thing on and then that's my 30 minutes at the booth that's it takes you on and we didn't get the information so the next content piece we produced after more time with VR after doing some of those was I don't buy don't be a first gen adopter and that video got a lot of people really upset we're early adopters of VR because I was basically saying in an opinion format this thing isn't ready wait for second-generation let's see how it goes and some people don't like that and that's fine but it was an opinion piece so deal with it so all that to say that what happened to VR well a lot of points you made in that video for price still expensive that instantly puts a lot of people off buying and then the bigger problem I think this is opinion territory it's okay if you disagree with me and I might disagree with you but its opinion territory this isn't like an objective test the thing with VR I think is that there is a lack of really mechanically driven games there are a couple good ones elite dangerous is more of a traditional game but you can play it in VR the mechanics are pretty well another game would be the the where's it robo rally or something like that some of those games are okay as well raw data is pretty cool but developers are still learning how to build for this new type of input and new type of output and until there's a turning point where they really understand how to build a game that's not a wave shooter and not a traditional game that just happens to use a different form of monitor then maybe there will be more adoption but right now there aren't enough applications out there for people who are not loaded with money to pick up VR that's kind of what I think is happening and as far as the hype you had companies like all of them really and the Nvidia Intel all the big three have been and continue to push VR because it's such a stressful application that if they can slap a sticker on their box that says we can play it where V already then they think it sells more units so of course there's all your hype right there and it starts bubbling away because there's just not a ton of adoption it's still doing quite well don't get me wrong the VR market is okay right now but you're not hearing about it as much because these three big companies already made their push and now they're in the wait-and-see territory so I think that's what happened to a lot of it is it was a huge marketing push everyone wanted to make a buck off of VR and the adoption wasn't instant because even though it's really cool there's not a strong enough draw from a a mechanical perspective drawn those types of players and there's not a strong enough draw from a financial perspective to draw on the people who are more budget-conscious because they just don't have the money or the physical space to set up the arc of the pole experience so you have all these companies who are trying to make the money marketing and then they just I mean the marketing funds were spent and so you're not hearing about it as much but now the say VR is dead we still test it it's still an interesting application to test and benchmark but it's also I would agree with you that yes the marketing hype has slowed down and that's because it's shipped it's a thing now people can buy it and the companies don't really they spent all their marketing money so I think that kind of answers part of that question but some of that opinion take it for what you will you don't have to agree with it that's fine so I can hurt my feelings all right so next topic gets back to more objective stuff and easy to answer things that are straightforward not just opinion on how the state of VR is which I know is going to be a bit touchy for some of you but yeah again no commentary on how VR is doing in terms of market share or anything but that's what I think for in terms of adoption and hype that's the next one Mitchell Jean do I don't know that's my best intent says it's not a hot topic anymore but I've always wondered and never found an answer why does the overclock are seven 1,700 perform nearly exactly the same as the overclocked 1800 axonal tasks I know it's the same architecture and all but that's the point if both CPUs are the same and perform almost identically why would the more expensive one exist is there really no difference between the two what did Andy put in the 1800 acts that made it more expensive but not better when overclocked I guess with the question we talked about this in the 1700 review so the 1700 review we basically said the 1800 X is superfluous if you're comfortable with overclocking which all of you really should be if you're an enthusiast user and you're not like a business user where maybe you have warranty concerns or maybe just company policy is no overclocking we need stability but if you're an enthusiast our recommendation was basically get a 1700 and overclock it because of the same and so that is the answer to your question they're the same the product is the same the only difference between them is the 1800 X chips with a higher clock out of the box than the 1700 so out of the box it'll perform better but if you can overclock it and you can if you overclock it to the same clock rate as 1800 actually will perform the same assuming the testing is done correctly if you overclock it beyond 1800 X it'll be better than 1800 X stock because not only is the architecture the same but the CC X's are the same same course in threads same really everything except for clock rate out of box so why should it exist well that's sort of what we in 1800 extra view and then later in the 1700 review there is a market for it people who don't have the corporate policy head room or who don't want to overclock for whatever reason that would rather spend $200 then spend 10 minutes overclocking that is the audience it sells to but seriously it's like it's 10 minutes of work to get a basic overthought that's stable and then it's kind of fun to tune it anyway at that point and and optimize things so we would still recommend save the $200 put it towards anything else in the system and nine overclocked 1700 and but yeah that's the answer to your question is there's no difference just out of clock out of box clocks so I think that answers that one it is a bit superfluous for our audience just because you're dealing with people who either know how to overclock or are willing to learn so why not but yeah hopefully that answers that one answers there's no difference next question is pants hard good says I recall that you mentioned the top exhaust fans can cause issues with large Tower air coolers in some cases you go into more detail and is possibly running a fractal design define s with three 140 millimeter intake and one 140 millimeter exhaust and trying to figure out if I'm better with an additional exhaust at the top or not so that the comment I made is let's get this out of the way first case testing is the least scientific of all because there are eight different variables for hardware seven or eight that can influence the results that said if you're working with a power cool or generally speaking in some cases and they are all different like the cool io4 or whatever it was we tested this on originally in some cases if you set the top as intake it's better if you set the top is the exhaust it can be worse for CPU cooling then if you have no fans up there at all well no exhaust fans up there at all anyway and the reason for that is if you have the think of where the intake or the exhaust or whatever the ventilation port on the top of the case think of where that's located relative to the CPU tower cooler if it's in front of the cooler and it's exhaust what's happening is that sort of stealing air it comes in the front and gets stolen out the top by the exhaust fan before it ever makes its way to the tower cooler so that's what happens there bit different if you have a radiator but again it's the least reliable testing of all just because there's so many variables everyone builds it a different way but yeah it comes down to does the fan pull air away from the cooler before it makes it through the cooler if the exhaust is behind the cooler there's a better chance that it helps because the cooler is pushing that air out and it's just getting either sucked out through the top or through the back if you already have a back exhaust generally you're fine just kind of depends on what kind of RPMs you're running how much pressure you're pushing through those front pans but that's the idea it's based it's just where is it positioned in the airflow channel to the cooler does it steal air from the cooler and that more or less answers it and then the last question it was just kind of interesting so this was on the how to manufacture scale out mining video and the question is from Zaidan algebra says GN as an independent Channel is it more profitable to use other GPU inventory in mining I mean according to what you earned from this channel the answer is no a very definitive hard now because the thing is even with our GPU inventory we make more money running a business reviewing those products then it could be you don't put a dent into company expenses by making a couple dollars per day off of video cards I played around with mining for a little bit to do that how do manufacturers feel about mining video it was a really brief thing to learn how it works and I mean from from a financial perspective absolutely not it's not words that we tore it all down after learning how it works and probably won't be pursuing it further but that's because this is a business so those resources are already allocated to things the bench space we've got only so many spots for benches to be set up and if I can have it set up so that two benches are next to each other one does production and one does gaming tests and then the third bench does thermal tests I can just switch the card one two three and go through all the tests really quickly whereas if I've got a machine running and mining on one of them first of all room ambient is way higher as let's Q's the the thermal test but more importantly now I have to tear down and rebuild benches so that I can make a few dollars per day so now it doesn't make us more money to mind with our video guard the the amount of expenses to run a business are so far beyond eight dollars a day or six dollars per day per video card it's not even funny so you're better off trying to use the space and the resources and the power and the products like it takes motherboards to and power supplies to actually review stuff that gets views which generates money through advertising then sit it in the corner for internet money basically that you hope will have value later so that's my view I but that's just I mean if you're a business with a lot different perspective as always so that's all for this time as always you can leave your questions in the comment section below for next time subscribe for more you go to patreon.com slash gamers access tells out directly and then gamers x is done after the website stay tuned for more stuff this week and thank you for watching I'll see you all next time park me talk to you