Gadgetory

everyone welcome back to another ask GN as always leave your questions in the comment section below for the next episode we have three we're shooting today so there's this one there's the next episode that'll go live on the main channel then we'll have a bonus episode for patreon backers at patreon.com slash gamers next is available to all tiers you want access to that go over there and support us there but today we're gonna be talking about PCI Express 4.0 and a couple of other questions about things like the GT 1030 that we covered recently before that this video is brought to you by thermal takes view 37 case the vo 37 focuses on highlighting custom PC builds with its full panoramic window and tinted front acrylic and our thermal testing the view 37 performed reasonably well when considering its looks focused build which is partly thanks to the airflow design and the removal of a bottom power supply shroud for a balance of looks and performance check the link in the description below for the view 37 before our first question a quick update on the shirt the limited edition foil shirt we've sold a lot of them almost too many at this point it's already closing pre-order soon if you want it we'll probably put about another week on it or so and then close it and then that'll be it so if you want the shirt and you haven't gotten one yet place your order on store doc gamers Nexus not Annette it's a limited edition foil version of our 10 year anniversary shirt and we should be in production pretty soon we were just getting a distribution of all the sizes so we can accommodate whatever size you want for the most part so grab that on the store if you want it first question is from south-eastern 777 who says Steve when can we expect the rollout of PCIe 4 according to your best guess so yes this is this is going to be based on research and on what I know obviously I don't have an exact timeline but I can give you some basics so PC is Eiji the group that actually ratifies and designs the PCI Express interface and specifications PCI SVG ratified and released their PCIe 4.0 spec in October of 2017 so last year and at this point all the vendors have it when they ratify and release a spec it means that the motherboard vendors got it CPU vendors get it and a lot of these people work with PC is IG while they're designing it as well so they've all known for a while what was on the way but also at the same time when PCIe 4.0 was officially released as a spec PCIe 5.0 was fast-tracked for 2019 which is really not that far away at this point so if it's kind of the same release period you're looking at PCIe 5.0 specs coming out and maybe end of year 2019 fourth quarter something like that under third quarter what we know now is that actually it is fast-tracked for second to third quarter 2019 but we know now though is that AMD wants to support PCIe 4.0 they've publicly said this in 2020 when they refresh their a m4 or replace their a m4 platform so as I am for fades out with the first round of Rison CPUs and Xen architecture a PCIe 4.0 should start coming in for AMD PCI you 5 not sure I mean that'll be after it's announced but probably too close to release date for the next platform for Andy so I would guess PCI you for makes the most sense we're not really at the limit of the interface anyway it's not a big deal and PCI you for just to give you an idea anyone who doesn't know it's about a doubling or so every every generation so 3.0 was 16 Giga transfers per second or 4.0 16 Giga transfers per second three point I was eight and then five point I was going to be 32 geget transfers per second so you have 8 16 32 and we're barely even kind of hitting the pcie 3.0 bandwidth with things like heavily overclocked Titan V's and we're really not for the most part and that's up with 16 lanes of course so multiply the lane count by the Giga transfer number but at 16 lanes of PCI III there's really not a huge rush to move the PCI you for anyway it does look like 2020s around 1a and he's gonna support it not sure about Intel they might be a bit sooner depending on what they're doing with their next h EDT platform but we haven't heard a whole lot yet so that's kind of the timeline and then PCIe 5 not too long after that PCIe 4 will not live as long as 3.0 which I think is noteworthy 3.0 has been around a long time now two point one was around for a long time but five is gonna come out pretty close after four and replace it and whatever the next platform is after those next question Trapper John says okay so now I'm curious and have a question maybe for asked yen do you ever worry that a video will make you look like a shill even though you're not I noticed you chastised Nvidia for the GT 1030 that's appropriate I'll leave it there garbage right after saying their NDA was no big deal was that on purpose also I would pay for a shirt that says Steve Burke says what the hell he wants on camera but please don't make it black because I'll melt okay so I guess I'll quickly note we did actually introduce a blue shirt The Blueprint shirt is back in stock now if you wanted it it was out of stock but we've just restocked it on the store so if you don't like the darker colors because it's too hot where you live or something that I guess we have a blue one for you but yeah so just some background here for everyone basically we released the GT 1030 video saying that the ddr4 1030 is bad don't buy it I think the day after we release the video about the NDA being no big deal because it's not and also the ddr4 1030 is bad so both those things are definitely true and the NDA I think got way more blown out of proportion than it ever deserved but part of that is the culture around sort of opposing the larger company in the space and then part of it is just because NVIDIA has done some shady things lately referred to the 10:30 with ddr4 and so people are kind of on edge and on high alert so as far as the question though do we worry about looking like a shell when doing videos the main way so the thing that the answer is we do definitely work on the video scripts in the video coverage in a way that we're like thinking about okay what are potential comments so we can try and answer questions just in the video and not have a bunch of questions where we have to do follow-up video to answer them so part of that's like benchmark coverage part of it is test methodology that's why we have the articles with some of the testing detailed so that if you have questions on what CPU was used then you can just go to the article and and find that information so we do tailor the content to try and address questions before they're posted just to help everyone and make things a bit more streamlined and then in that process we're also looking at what our potential concerns people would have so I mean yeah with the the GT 1030 video we shot before we film the NDA on the NDA one was kind of last minute it was super rushed because it was a hot topic and we were able to get the the lawyer who spoke with us to call in and talk to the subject kind of on last-minute notice that was pretty rog GT 10:30 he's already shot but I will say that we do definitely consider when posting something like saying the NDA is no big deal of course we're sitting there thinking the comments are gonna be like at least a few of them will say you're supporting NDA Nvidia and their NDA you're supporting their actions you are on their payroll all that kind of stuff that we see all the time for any video so of course that is considered there's not a lot we can do about it other than trying to be just as neutral as possible releasing the 1030 video certainly helps with tempering some of the people who might be more extreme but there's only so much you can do to deal with those people who are just absolutely convinced that you were out to get the company that they decided they want to support for absolutely no logical or rational reason for the most part whatsoever so ultimately no reason to be loyal to any of these companies but some people get so loyal to them that Nvidia Intel or Andy that is just kind of I think blinds their judgment to a point of posting those comments and we can't do anything about that so our goal basically to answer the question of you know do we worry about it or what do we do to deal with it the answer is just remain as neutral and objective and straightforward as possible and as long as I do that then I'm not really concerned about it because at the end of the day there's always going to be a product where we say this is a good product it's always gonna be one where we say this is a terrible product and it's probably gonna come from the same company even so I mean all I can really do is point to and say well look we supported them there and we opposed them here so what more do you want from me so hopefully that answers it basically it's something we consider we don't tailor content around it because I I mean I make the content that I think you guys want to see and I don't think anyone wants to see content that's like had every line poured over to make sure that it's not gonna offend anyone because frankly I don't care so we just focus on covering the truth of whether it's good or not and then the rest of it whatever it doesn't really matter at that point next question Oliver Wilton says what do you use to find out why a cpu OC crashes attempts are easy to see but what about power needed what setting needs to be changed et cetera and at what point do you just say bad luck on the silicon lottery also any plans for some more thick gianna hoodie is it gets cold here in England in the winter yes we'll be introducing them again towards winter so good timing on that the question what do we do to find out why an overclock crashes typically the easiest thing to do is just change one thing at a time so as long as you're doing that if it was stable before and you change voltage then you pretty much know why it crashed it's because you probably lowered the voltage too much or if you increase frequency but you keep the same voltage you know why it crashed so as long as you just do one thing at a time it's it'll be fine you'll figure it out pretty much immediately if you really can't though like let's say and this happens a lot let's say with the GPU OC or Ram in particular you might have settings that are perfectly stable and your stability test if it's 3dmark or whatever but then as soon as you start playing actual games it'll crash for seemingly no reason typically what I'll do first of all for Intel X to you is really good for Andy risin Masters okay it's certainly gotten better but it doesn't have some of the same reporting features that X to you has that I want so in either situation I would still recommend Hardware info 64 it is great software it's free it's a really good monitoring utility and when you open it you click on the sensors or just check mark the box that says sensors only open that it'll reduce confusion and as you scroll down through the list you'll see a whole bunch of items that are just listed as yes or no and there'll be thermal throttles power throttles current throttles voltage limitations stuff on GPUs like nvidia gpus where you can't change the voltage stuff like that GPU Z's also really good on the GPU side if you want to see the perf cap reason it's called so it'll be something like V R L or something like that and then you can look up the the code and see what that means in there basically forums or manual online more or less so that'll give you troubleshooting tools for hardware info and 4x to you the big thing to look at for those is the current limit and the thermal limit and if it says yes you're hitting the current limit at any point during the benchmark it'll stay in the maximum column it'll stay as yes even though it might not be hitting that limit when you look at it so look at the maximum column if you see any yeses for thermal or current limits then reboot go into the BIOS options disable current limit stuff like that if you think it's safe to do so it normally is for an asus motherboard for example you go to the digit plus vrm section i think a lot of people don't even know that page exists it's really important though go to that page and you can change the DRAM current limit cpu current limit for the core and any other power limits in there just disable them all or max them out be careful about LLC be careful about voltage as long as you're careful on those two things you're not gonna hurt anything so those the tools to use hardware info 64 for both platforms for Intel and AMD and also it's okay for GPUs gpu-z is better for GPUs and CPUs ease and ok tool just to check and make sure your numbers are what you typed in and bios but not great at sort of debugging or troubleshooting and then XTU is an Intel utility that's pretty good also at giving you what the error is the hardware in foot does much of the same and Rison masters ok not my favorite they just kind of started working on it in the last year or so though so that'll improve but hardware info is very good so hopefully that helps I think as for at what point do you say bad luck on the silicon lottery from the same question I would say bad luck on the silicon lottery at the point where I've actually did this recently with our one of our 8700 KS where you increase the voltage to a point where it's no longer you're no longer comfortable with it for daily use so I think I had pushed one of our 8700 K's up to something like one point four or five volts for V core and high LLC and it still wasn't taking five gigahertz stable and so at that point you're kind of like there's really not much else I can do because one point four or five on the high side Kandee let it complete liquid metal on it I can put a huge radio radiator on it and deal with the thermals but if it's still not doing the frequency you want then I mean that's kind of it so that would be the point basically as a the point at which voltage no longer is a comfortable setting for daily use and you can't achieve a frequency that you think is standard to achieve then I would say that's the the point where you say bad luck next question and that was a good question by the way if anyone has more software monitoring or logging utility questions let me know next one is from Stu I think this is on the patreon discord who says what accounts for discrepancies in the way CPU clocks are reported this is also a really good question ie if at 4.5 gigahertz task manager will say four point four nine rivatuner will say four point four nine five CPU Z and hardware info display accurate info based on oh yeah this these are my notes so so if you sit at let's say you said I multiply our 45 and you think you have a base clock of a hundred so that should be about 4.5 gigahertz the reason some of its rounding errors so the GPU z does this too we're in old versions of gpu-z I think this has since been corrected I'm not sure some video cards would show GPU load at 99% they would never go to a hundred and that was a rounding issue so it actually was a hundred but whatever was going on in the Psalter was rounding to 99 maybe maybe it was ninety nine point six and it just decided to round down instead of up or something like that so sometimes it's rounding errors task manager is kind of buggy in general with reading frequencies at times I don't know if that's rounding or what specifically that is but I can speak to CPU Z and actually just motherboards let's start with motherboards so motherboards it might say a hundred megahertz for your base clock in BIOS and INRI or if you left it auto it's you would assume it's a hundred but the thing is motherboards have variants on the base clock and this is actually a point of discussion for the motherboard vendors where they've they've been talking lately about MCE and whether it should be on or off but there's a new thing and heads up I guess at this point where BC LK they are now discussing okay if MC e is off what if we just enable a higher BC LK what if we push to one hundred point five instead of a hundred or even we'll probably stop at a hundred point five some of them are bouncing around between 98 and 100 or 100 point five so a lot of what you're seeing is gonna be the the ratio is correct but the base clock is jumping around and that's the motherboard vendor at I guess you could say fault but it's not necessarily a fault if it's four point four nine out of four point five that's pretty good so yeah base clock changes a lot if you open up CPU Z you'll often see that it says a hundred point something and when it should be a hundred or 99 point something I think that answers most of the question also rounding errors next one is from on Sun who says by the way I'm very skeptical for nail polish for CPUs I mean so close to the actual die the temps are going to be close to 100 degrees Celsius I believe this should be enough to make liquid again or if it's not completely liquid maybe they have viscosity to run down slowly and move away from the capacitors so some reference material here I think this is in response to talk about liquid metal or something or nail polish choices last week for CPUs to protect the SMD is like the small capacitors and things and the theta is as far as melting or changing its state you have to remember first the die is probably not gonna be 100 C but if it is because you've deleted it so one would hope that it's transferring heat pretty well if it is a hundred degrees though that is basically strictly on the cores on the die so it's a it's pinpoint areas on the die it'll spread over the die surface so you might be in the nineties or whatever across the whole die but as soon as you get off that die and over to the the caps and the SMD is that like on the X to 99 CPUs they're pretty close but they're not close they're far enough away from the die that I mean that the temperature drop is huge because it's no longer the silicon so although the die is 100 it's transferring that heat into the IHS hopefully via liquid metal or something and I actually definitely be a liquid metal because otherwise you're probably not using something to protect the caps unless it's conductive thermal paste and then all the other heat going over to the SM Dee's it's gonna be low enough to not really matter so I wouldn't worry about it we've we've had CPUs X 299 including included running for like a year now with liquid metal and with nail polish on them to protect the SMD s and there have been no problems the liquid metal is still fine the nail polish is still fine so you can use conformal coating you can use captain tape stuff like that it's those will work pretty well but if you already have like nail polish around for example then that works just fine as long as it doesn't have toluene in it which can be pretty bad for the SMD s so just check the chemical composition also careful of things like acetone if you're getting it off but next one is from Bateman who says a lot of tech youtubers have your mod Matt how do you feel about this extra publicity it's pretty cool so we sent it out like Linus has one of them he he's shown that one a couple times now I think actually speaking of liquid metal in their recent whatever video they were doing with liquid metal it was in there so it's cool people seem to actually like it we sent it to youtubers that we know and work with and basically asked them do you have any feedback on how to improve this thing for our next whatever mod Matt products we do we were working on a medium for example that will hopefully be in production soon so we asked them for feedback it was great to talk to people who are professional products reviewers and see what they had to say and obviously we sincerely appreciate that they actually like and use the product and even show it on camera it's a nice bonus but the coolest thing is that these people who actually like do the stuff we do everyday build computers every single day basically are using it as opposed to some other service I think hopefully speaks to the quality and it's also nice to have professionals who can give us feedback if they think we can improve something because it's I mean it just means we can make a better products much faster that way and then last thing this wasn't a specific question but there are a lot of them just in general about like about this shirt and about other products we have while we're on the topic of the store so we've seen a lot of questions about shipping costs and duties and customs and stuff like that shipping cost the store will auto calculate it before you buy so you can see what it costs if you have a question how much it cost to ship to your country you can do that on the store and if you don't like it that's fine we get it just back out and then any other questions we'll do our best to help you I don't know customs regulations for every country obviously but we can try and help you just email support at gamer's axis net if you have a question and we'll try and help you out there for sure so that's it for this one is always patreon.com slash gamers Nexus tops out directly or get access to the bonus episode we'll have a second episode that'll go live on the main channel around the time this one does maybe plus or minus I don't know 18 hours or so and store dock guarantees access dot net to pick up this shirt before it's gone probably closing pre-orders in about a week or something like that thank you for watching subscribe for more I'll see you all next time