Gadgetory

everyone welcome back to another ask Jan this is the third one that we've shot in the last hour and a half so go to you as always the channel for the other episode post your questions in the comment section below and also check out the patreon bonus ask Jen if you want some extra questions in there and some of them are business questions aren't about like where to learn more about PC hardware at a in a technical sense those might be useful some of you patreon.com slash gamers Nexus to grab that episode this one I'm gonna be talking about third-party players in the market for GPUs and CPUs so competition for Intel and AMD and NVIDIA for example before that this video is brought to you by Thermal Grizzlies high-end thermal paste and liquid metal thermal Grizzlies cryo knot is an affordable high quality thermal compound that doesn't face some of the aging limitations of other pastes on the market cryo knot has a thermal conductivity of 12.5 watts per meter Kelvin focuses on endurance is easy to spread and isn't electrically conductive making it safe to use on GPU dies thermal grizzly also makes conductor not liquid metal which we've used to drop 20 degrees off some temperatures than our dee-lighted test by a tube at the link in the description below quick note just like it did in the other one these shirts are finally back in stock they were out of stock for a couple weeks it's the teal version of our teardown logo shirt we have them in cotton and in a very comfortable try blend if you prefer the sporty or lighter weight feel so store it on cameras Nexus Donna if you want to pick one up there in stock and shipping now first question is from the heartfelt kid who said how long before you think we'll see a third party in the GPU and CPU market not necessarily a nasty in question but it is a great one so the interesting thing here to me was that you're saying how long before there have been third-party comput computer Zin these markets ages ago and they all died so first thing I want to point out is anyone who's interested in the history of the industry the hardware industry I would really encourage you to look up SGI what was it Silicon Graphics I think Silicon Graphics incorporated maybe it was it I don't remember the exact but it was SGI is the point and a Jensen the founder and CEO of Nvidia came from there and SGI is a really interesting company because they were they more or less indirectly birthed Vidia which later was a contributor to SGI dying and so there were other parties at one point before nvidia and AMD and intel not so much before intel in a huge sense but there were IBM but so yeah look up the history of SGI it's really interesting some of the problems they had were like SGI for example believes that consumer gps would just never be a thing they just thought consumers would never want GPUs they're too expensive and really what do you need to do with them so SGI was just just dead set on making corporate grade graphics products and making stuff for companies and b2b and enterprise and stuff like that and that was a huge misstep for them because out of that refusal to really push consumer and try and make it successful even though it seemed too expensive and it might not Jeff's refusal top management yes to some extent but also on the engineering side it was difficult to make them affordable but that that sort of disconnect with the interest of the market is why NVIDIA was so successful and ati to the extent that ati was successful back before they were purchased by andy other third-party players you had matt rocks at one point with zero percent market share these days you had via which is theoretically they're doing something now from some of the stuff we've seen but i don't know if it'll happen IBM still makes the power cpus so ibm's not a competitor in x86 and a competitor at least not in anything that we do with enthusiasts desktop or consumer electronics they just don't exist anymore but IBM makes the power cpus which are in the brand-new summit supercomputer which i think is the i want to say best supercomputer in the world right now it just put the u.s. back on the top china was on top for i think several years and the u.s. just knocked it out and that was with IBM power cpus so there are other competitors it's just not kind of in our space but i know what you mean see ryx by the way i don't know or however you say the name aside Rex earrings they were another one that's basically dead now voodoo Buddha graphics made some of the best graphics cards they were more or less killed as well by Nvidia's dominance in the market not I mean that it's tough market it's really so here's the problem getting to your question you said how long before so that's implying you think there might be some in the future and that's great I hope so too so how long before things we know we know intel is working on the GPU actively they hired Roger Kaduri he's the former chief architect and head of the Radeon technologies group at AMD he was largely responsible for he worked on Polaris Vega and I think Fiji so Rajic stories had Intel now heading up or at least engineering the Intel GPU and that Intel's going for some poll in probably machine learning and deep learning which is great because Nvidia's largely dominate in that market right now Google is doing a lot of work in that market it's a huge growing market gaming by the way still like sixty percent though of Nvidia's revenue and I'm using that Nvidia as an example cuz they're huge so 60 percent 50-plus of their more than half of the company's revenue in gaming which means there is money in gaming and Intel as we understand it is looking at potentially doing a consumer GPU it's not a hundred percent confirmed I don't think at least we don't know it to like what sort of performance level we should expect but they're looking at doing it and Intel has been making integrated graphics for a while now they've gotten better they're still like rape they're better than they were I used to call the Intel graphics decelerated I don't call that anymore though I still don't generally use it so there how long before Intel probably within the next several years it takes a long time to make a GPU or CPU you're talking years of architecting they could be five years probably now before there's anything that's actually remotely competitive and who knows if that's going to be enterprise or consumer if they'll even bring it to consumer the first iteration so that's a problem if you're looking at consumer but the fact that Intel is even considering this is pretty big news I'm not saying that like go in tell her anything like that what I'm saying is it takes a company at about Intel with a market cap of what between I don't know what it is anymore but between 150 and 200 billion or something like that gigantic company surpassed only recently by Samsung I think in silicon fabrication takes a company of their size to do this because if you want to own the fabrication plans you're talking multiple billions of dollars otherwise you're working with Global Foundries and tsmc and companies like that who'll do this silicon production for you which is fine they do a good job too and video names they both use them but it takes big money and those fabs to get on their list it's also very expensive because you have to outbid everyone else to get your processors made so to answer your question with into I think Intel's the first we're likely to see if there are even any others the industry kind of encourages actually our society in general sort of encourages things like duopoly x' when you're talking about these multi-billion dollar investments to make a product so i don't know that we're gonna see a huge shift but until might do something who knows maybe that means other things we're seeing in China for example the dianna CPUs that we mentioned in our hardware news video those are getting made lice it's a company that's 51% owned by AMD so they can get the x86 cross-licensing over to them so that's the other big thing CPUs to see competition on the CPU space and only requires a ton of money and a ton of talent and a lot of time which also requires money but also requires licensing so x86 the basically the what all modern gaming desktop computers are built on is and there's a common misconception that x86 is like solely windows 32-bit or something but now you need x86 processors to run anything that you're doing on Windows gaming and stuff like that x86 is an Intel thing they license out Andy has x64 they cross license each other it's a symbiotic agreement but for both of those to be licensed to another company requires tricky things like 51% ownership by AMD which yeah how much is it really a competitor at that point so those are some of the things consider intellectual property is a big hurdle money is a huge hurdle billions of dollars to make your own fabs or otherwise just just start engineering something that's competitive and then find a fab to make it so yeah stuff to think about IBM power still out there though and it's useful in supercomputing and very least I'm sure there's other processors I'm overlooking posting below give people something to look at and research but you know we we kind of know what exists in the consumer market pray didn't answer your question the previous SPN will air that otherwise there was about nvme SSDs nvme and that to SSDs excuse me that was a really good question that I had it on here twice for some reasons but check the other ass gen for that it's about heat sinks and whether or not they are BS for nvme I'm about to us as these trucker nerds said sgn safe voltage for 24/7 OCS running an 8700 K at five point three gigahertz all core with one point three five volts that is really good that's like what we're doing on our 8086 k you must have gotten one of the the good 87 your 8700 k would have been bend as an ad 86 k if they were bending them at the time that it was made so i is anything below 1.4 to say for three to five years i can't give you a year estimate but or is it better to run lower than max obtainable frequency in favor of lower voltage so 1.35 is fine I'm not I wouldn't worry about that so even for a long term use 24/7 use don't worry about it but I want to be at one point three five is like is crazy you got one of the best 87 or case that's out there it's a gold sample if you wanted to run I don't know let's say you can do 5.2 at one point to five volts I'd probably do that just because it's a lot lower heat it's a lot lower power consumption and your gaming performance or even production performance is basically unchanged by 100 megahertz difference so I yeah I would not worry about one point three five one point forty plus is is definitely kind of the the barrier for comfort for a long term use be most careful about your si system agent voltage don't push that too high definitely not one point four volts ideally 1.3 below and then VSO CNA and these different stories but same idea for that one next questions from quantum braced or actually statement CCIE 4.0 will greatly help with m2 SSD speeds and Thunderbolt II GPUs this is in reference to the last ask G and where I talked about PCIe 4.0 and I was talking specifically about graphics but quantum braced and two or three others of you who commented on this and one of our one of our friends at a company who contacted me you all have a really good point which is I did not talk about PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 is usefulness for i/o I didn't really think about it at the time for graphics is what I was focused on that all that stuff still applies if you have PCIe 4.0 questions for graphics but for IO 4.0 it makes a lot of sense because you can accomplish the same amount of throughput with half the lanes so that's a great point thank you for pointing it out if you have two times the throughput per Lane then yeah for things like nvme SSD is where you're already kind of potentially bump it bumping up against four lane limitations on gen 3 then it's going to help because suddenly four lanes will achieve the twice of what they did previously with 3.0 another thing to consider is the PCH so Intel when PCH is connected via DMI and that interfaces four lanes as well so with a newer PCIe if they if they're going to stick to DMI the way it is now they keep going across PCIe having a newer generation PCIe with more bandwidth or throughput potential there's it's going to be helpful for all attached i/o devices to CCH so a great point think you were pointed out next one Jeff brisk says this may seem like a silly question but as super is it super unusual to be able to overclock the memory on a gtx 1080 to 1,000 megahertz offset an afterburner my friend just bought an MSI gaming X 1080 this weekend and I helped him OC it got around plus 150 on the core clock I was pretty astounded by the results runs totally stay at what that OC I have seen it before a lot of the time it's sort of tricking you so one of the things to consider this is something that I that was taught to me during the mining stuff so when all the mining craze was going on some of you I think did some Chiefy mining and commented about some of the things that I said in other videos and one of the things I learned was that mining because I guess it's pretty memory intensive you can get these plus 1000 offsets to the GPU memory but in reality if you check the what the hash rate I guess you'll see that there are a lot of invalid hashes or something to that effect because it looks like plus 1000 but it's actually either encountering memory errors or just inaccuracies or is unstable but it looks stable so plus 1000 depending on the application is potentially a misnomer or misleading it might be throwing memory errors you might not see it reflected in games but you know depends on what you're doing so to answer the question it is unusual to actually do that kind of memory overclock in with legitimacy like actually stable unless you're maybe using like like bins down memory that was supposed to be 9 gigabits per second but they just called it 8 because they needed to fill market demand or something to that extent so it's pretty unusual yes whether or not it's it's actually stable as the bigger question so you might want to find some GPU memory benchmarks run it through them and just see if it throws any memory errors and also check check and see like look at gpu-z and cross-reference it with afterburner and cross-reference that with EGA precision so use 2 tools for the overclock see if you can get the same offset and see if 1,000 in afterburner and precision give you the same numbers in GPU Z because if they don't sometimes have had things and I don't know if if this is happening here it depends on what version you're using we've had issues with afterburner in the past and precision where it'll interpret some of the inputs it'll accept the input but the output will actually not correspond with the input that I type meaning that you'd be able to type in a higher number than it was reality so you can use those applications cross-check next one is from oh and you'll typically see reduced performance rest if it is unstable so it sounds like you're not seeing those though that's not a good one look or next one I'll be frank I'm leery about using mine the ham says is thirty two hundred Hertz castex cast 14 still the sweet spot for ddr4 ram or to state it differently does the looser timing of say thirty 866 cass 18 the gate most of the speed benefits leaving me with more expensive ram for no noticeable improvement our live stream with 8086 k spent like two hours doing memory stuff it's easy to get diminishing returns with ram let's just assume you're running something that can actually do thirty two hundred and thirty eight hundred plus because that's the bigger thing as it can the IMC do it can the motherboard do it can the architecture support it so let's assume that those are all supported in that scenario running something like CL 14 3200 I would say is a definitely a sweet spot in the very least for affordability 3200 CL 14 is pretty affordable and highly performance will use that made-up word whereas 3600 if you can afford it is more of the real sweet spot because if you do 3600 at CL 16 or 14 depending on the quality of the die then that's really where you kind of cap out and at that point you're diminishing returns territory for a lot of architectures with any kind of workloads that we benchmark there are there are things I'm sure that would do more with higher speeds or something as far as frequency versus tines yes some applications fire strikes a great example if you run CL 11 or 12 on fire track with slower frequencies it's gonna get you a lot further then if you're on a higher frequency with CL 14 or 16 so yes there are diminishing returns the point I would say it where you encounter those is going to be like 3600 or thereabouts or 3400 somewhere in that territory you kind of get a black hole and there's some between 30 to 36 but stuff to think about next one is from celerity who says do stator veins increase static pressure on fans if so why don't more companies use them I'm gonna keep this short but I asked NOK to about this economy tax so stator veins idea here is that you're putting a guide between the radiator and the fan and the idea there is that it distances the fan hub from the radiator so the fan hub is kind of a dead zone if you put a fan right up against something you want to cool the middle of the fans not gonna do anything and so whatever's behind the middle of the fan won't get cooled so idea of a stator vane is that you're creating a gap so that the air has some chance to sort of form around the hub and cover the whole surface area of fans rather than have a dead spot talking to naktu and others about this I think an octopus said actually spoke with another company as well but one of the three companies I spoke to said they've looked into it and that oftentimes the radiators have enough of a bump like a gap between the radiator housing and the fins that they don't need a vein and they're separately to allow more airflow so that's something we might test in the future I've considered it if there's interest I'll look into it you know super behind right now no promise is on a timeline but from what the companies that have looked into it have told me it's just that there's kind of a point of diminishing returns you really increase how fat that whole radiator fan combo is which is a big problem for usability and I guess the gains were not worth that usability hit and I guess some of the from what I understand so on the better radiators that space the fans a bit farther from the fins do fine anyway great question though something I'm also curious that last one RC asks how do you define a gaming router in quotes today actually offer benefits are they basically just gimmicks made to entice people into buying a fancy-looking the router that basically does the same job as regular router i define a gaming router as 99% utter BS that is my definition of a gaming router they might have some extra features honestly a lot of time it's just tacking the work just like with gaming chairs attacking their gaming on it to a target market that might not know a whole lot about the component and they just know they're using it for gaming so dammit that thing's called gaming router it probably won't do what I want it might have a better interface you don't really need the port for word games anymore but maybe that's maybe easier some of the ones that I've worked on in the past we don't do much with them really have like zero feature difference at all they just look like a fortress or something instead of a router personally speaking I prefer to buy more office focused things for office tasks like high-speed Internet even if I'm using it for gaming just because I'm going to trust that I'm not overpaying for the word game and the title of it so no they don't offer a ton of features that are actually going to be legitimately useful to you they might have some things but I question whether those things they have or anything you can't do on your own with a normal router so that's it for this one as always go to patreon.com/scishow cameras Nexus to get the bonus episode go to the channel and subscribe to catch the other sgn episode might already be up on an hour plus or minus 18 hours on that one subscribe for more stored our cameras next is not to pick up this restocked tl tear down shirt and thanks for watching I'll see you all next time