Gadgetory

hey everyone welcome to another ask Jian we're shooting three today this is the third one I've shot don't know the order they'll go up one is on the patreon site so you got a patreon.com slash gamers nexus to get access to the bonus episodes available to all backers and then we have some behind the scenes stuff from the office available to $5 plus so this episode we're talking out briefly he's flaking midnight the cats who have been featured on the channel also been talking about MacBook Pro and thermals pretty fun topic that I wanted to bring up because we never talked about Mac and someone asked about it and I thought that's a great opportunity to talk about something Apple's done that's kind of sad so yeah great topics for this week leave your questions in the comment section below we're working pretty hard to bring on more experts so as you ask questions if you think there's a really good one that I might not be able to tackle so if you don't think I can do it that's fine post it anyway and I will try to find someone who's available to answer it either just in email or is able to join me and we'll be doing that more going forward as we move into the office two before that this video is brought to you by NZXT is new h 500 case which we recently found to have an impressively effective cooling setup that is entirely negative pressure when stock the H 500 is the successor of the s 340 and s 340 a lead offering high build quality that's all steel and glass and kael management features that are also a top class for the $70 compact mid tower case H 500 is a part of NZXT Zanu H series lineup which also features options from mini ITX micro ATX and full ATX builds learn more at the link in the description below alright so first note as always mod mats are available now they're shipping out as the orders come in not quite sold out yet we're trying to get another order in but it looks like we're gonna sell out before they come in so if you want one pick it up on store that game is next to stock that we have the chalkboard design shirts there are two it's just a black version of the blue print shirt and we have our video card Anatomy poster which has BRM component stuff like that let's go to the first question first one is from supa who said actually it's really from everyone it's from the community because as we posted the movie into vlog videos I've probably answered like 5 to 10 times each this question and it's well snowflake in midnight May to move to the office if not can we get some b-roll footage from time to time I don't want to have to threaten I'm subbing but if necessary and I don't blame you so here's the plant I don't know if we've talked about this publicly I think I did and one of the patreon behind-the-scenes things not meant to be a plug but we're getting obviously a bunch of new furniture part of that's gonna be a new set furniture and so this is actually like beyond the cat questions interesting I think hopefully for some of you this table I think is gonna stay here the the famous wobbly table so I think we're gonna leave this here and I think I leave the wood wall here I I kind of want to bring it for because it's cool to have the background for history but I like the idea of keeping these two things here so if at the end of the day I'm like you know what I want to do a livestream from home I want to go home set up the camera on a tripod and build the computer and just hang out with everyone I'll be able to do that I'll have a wall I'll have a table and I'll get some extra lights just some cheap ones to make it possible and so part of that is is we've already I mean I thought of the snowflake thing long before we even signed a contract on anything and part of that is she'll be able to still be in b-roll shots and maybe even a role if I shoot anything from home like just a live stream or whatever so do not fear they will still make appearances I am specifically arranging for that seems a little silly but but we are so anyway the other the bigger thing here there well maybe not depends on who may be the secondary things many of you is that we're gonna have just an extra spot for filming so it wouldn't be a manned camera I don't think for those it'd just be like something that I want to do and maybe we stream to the main channel who gets the side channel I don't know anyway yeah they'll still be there still be in the shots next question is from animation creations 42 who says with the recent drama regarding the MacBook Pro thermals do you think Apple would have been able to get the same performance as the I 9 with better thermals with an AMD mobile CPU if they made a higher-end mobile chips as AMD CPUs tend to be more efficient than Intel's this is a really complicated question for a lot of reasons I am going to address different parts of this and slightly modify it so without being specific on anthea mobile CPUs because I honestly don't know much about them I don't know really much about anything that goes in like laptops or phones that isn't also a desktop part we're very closely related to Wan and I haven't tested anything and the mobile CPU so let me change your question a little bit please to remove some of the specificity on that what I will say is that yes if your question absolutely the answer is yes it is possible to achieve the same performance as a high on part with a low on part if the high on part is throttling into a point of being garbage so the answer is yes and I don't know specifically about the mobile CPUs or what their specs are anything really but I do know that if you have a part that can't perform to spec then a lower end part that can perform respect might be better so yes definitely and that's part of the problem I think people had with this initial MacBook stuff was that if it's throttling to a point of just you could have spent less money on a lower end part and got the same performance you kind of feel ripped off but also Apple does at least partially specialize in that particular attribute ripping people off whether it's repair shops or individuals so I'm not saying they don't I don't I'm not gonna I'll leave that there that's that's fine I'm fine with what I said I thought about doing a wishy-washy thing giving myself an out in case people wanted to argue it but you know what I don't care they am NOT a fan of Apple so and that's fine we don't review their stuff so that particular subset is not a consideration any of our reviews I don't think we've never reviewed an Apple part and probably will stay that way unless it's something like this except I don't want to buy a MacBook right now anyway as far as the rest of this so I will give a shout to snazzy labs who has a good video of taking apart his MacBook Pro I used that to get a better understanding what was in there cuz I'm not gonna buy one and he actually referenced our house Evo coolers work video so consider this assembiy I had some symbiotic relationship so from his video there's absolutely zero surface area on the cooler and/or on the heatsink I should say it's got just one fat pipe and it's got some very very very any fins so it's not an impressive cooler this is part of like all laptop it's not just Apple it's part of this like sort of sometimes stupid craze to get just half a millimeter smaller than the next one so that you can make it look like you changed something this generation which is I find particularly annoying because I don't know I I'd rather my laptop's be a millimeter taller and have rj45 than not but you know different different audiences different people so anyway that what I saw in that video I saw basically zero vrm cooling at all I saw very little surface area on the heatsink the fans aren't particularly good and you end up with Apple's response which is quote we've identified that there is a missing digital key in the firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro they told this to see net they also said a bug fixes included in today's Mac OS High Sierra 10 13 6 supplemental update and is recommended what I understand this kind of fix a lot of the problems but I am going to say I don't fully buy the explanation here I think the digital key and missing in firmware that impacts their own management system is code for we were running the voltage to I and we down down volted the processor I think that's what it comes down to and or they just under bolted it either way I don't know I do not have one I can't validate it but I would imagine under Bolton might have played a role I haven't looked into it that could be wrong well I mean I have looked into it as much as I could but regardless of what Apple claims the problem was it's still a garbage cooling solution there's still nothing on the vrm components really of note and I'm not impressed by by what they built for something as expensive as it is so yeah it's you are correct a in any scenario ever Apple or not a cheaper CPU that actually performs versus a sudden 980 XE that's down clock into 800 megahertz the cheaper one will be better so yeah it's really all there is to it but anyway I kind of wanted to buy one just to just do some testing but with the MU the office move and everything I decided we'll just we'll shout this one for now and let the others tackle it anyway very unimpressed with their cooling solution regardless of what their software changes do you cannot fix a poor design with software and it remains a poor design whether or not the software works around the problem so Anna next one Ross who include Sinskey says what's the limiting factor on CPU air cooler effectiveness fan speed CFM air moving through the fans to the fins tower size etc well the first one with any kind of ambient cooler any kind of air cooler which would include liquid coolers you're limited by ambient so a room temperature 20 or whatever degrees it may be in your house Celsius of course so that's the big limit you can't get below that period unless you're using some kind of chilling effects you dry ice or liquid nitrogen or whatever or advanced like tech cooler stuff like that so this is the first bottleneck you hit or case ambient that's another one your room maybe twenty one your case could very easily be 35 or 40 if it's a bad KSP in 40 so that's a that's the first longer next one and this that applies to liquid fin density and fin pitch and impedance so the angle of the fin fin pitch impacts the ability of air to flow through it and effectively hit things like heat pipes which are sinking a whole lot of the heat and cool them down the fin density matters it has to be dense enough that there we good example that's decent one this is a fairly standard cooler and EXT made this one i don't think they make it anymore fairly standard though pretty much everyone makes one of these so it has to be dense enough fins that there's a lot of surface area because a solid block is not gonna be any good because no surface area so a lot of surface area but it can't be so dense that there's impedance and you're blocking air flow which is a really fine balance to walk some of the cheaper ones go to hard one direction of the other where it's either too big gap too many big gaps or too few gaps that are too small you can't get the air through it's a fast fan or it's just so loud that you don't really want to get the air through even if you can so those are considerations another consideration the smoothness of the cold plate this is a big one that has a magnet on it not a good example the smoothness of the cold plate matters a lot because if you have a rough surface for something like a CPU cooler then you're going to be filling more of that service with a thermal interface so going back to I believe you were saying this know someone else said this is a different question going back to what someone else said and one of these ass Jen's the more thermal interfaces you have between the device under test and the cooler device the worse transfer you're going to have it's just more stuff for for it to transfer through you wanted to get into into and out of metal as quickly as possible putting interfaces in between is necessary but not something you want a lot of so the rougher it is the less direct contact area there will be to the IHS which means that you're going to have more air pockets or more thermal paste both of which are significantly lower thermal conductivity than copper so you want smoothness on the cold plate that's a big factor and actually if you look at some really really cheap air coolers like 10 to 15 dollar budget garbage bin then you'll see a lot of them do have rougher finishes on the bottom this is a problem we had with the gtx 980ti gigabyte card extreme water car no the air card the extreme air card with three fans one of the problems that I had was a really rough called plate so that's a problem there is an instance where that's not true there is an instance where actually a rougher plate is better and that example of that would be our Computex coverage where we talked with dare bauer roman about his novak cooling solution not the phase change want while not the phase change loop but the basically tank full of fluid and the difference there is that because the GPU is submerged the video card was submerged in this fluid this low boiling point fluid 60 degree Celsius something like that maybe maybe 40 60 s having the extra servicer the scratches in the plate on the surface on the top side actually does help and that's because you're increasing the surface area and you've got water flowing through it so that's an instance where what I said it's not really quite as true but for an air cooler smooth is better smoother is better and then other notes I have here let's see material the cold pipe the cold plate and the heat pipes so and design of the heat pipes so heat pipes have a fluid in them and it's pretty simple gets down to the cold plate evaporates from the heat boils basically goes up to the top of the tube condenses comes back down via capillary action and it repeats and some tubes on the inside have a smaller inner tube diameter than other tubes and so even though you might have two six millimeter or two eight millimeter heat pipes side by side from one vendor versus the other one could be worse and there are few reasons one the inside of the heat pipe could be sintered it could be mashed it could be weave it could be composite so these are all different approaches to filling the heat pipe with something to help the liquid move through it so as an example you might have a sintered heat pipe where it's just basically like copper dust more or less that's fixed to the sidewalls of the heat pipe and that helps the water travel through and continue dissipating or cooling down as it returns to a state where it can evaporate once again and another example will be matched which is a literal mesh or a weave and yeah so that's an impactor to the performance and then you also have just the diameter of the inside of the tube where it might be more constrictive or not depending on how how big the inside is not just the outside so it might be eight but one might have a larger inner diameter than the other and and that will impact performance too and other than that the contact and surface area between the heat pipes and the cold plate and the IHS so it was direct contact like heat pipe to IHS that's good but sometimes vendors will cram in a ton of heat pipes just so they can take the marketing box and say yep we have eight heat pipes but the thing is if like two of them are overhanging the CPU not touching it or bunch of them are half touching the CPU not helping you'd be better off with fewer of them that are fully touching the CPU and fully contacted and smooth and engaged with the service so I and then fan speed so yeah fan speed matters obviously to hopefully that answers your question I really like talk I like CPU air coolers they're fun to talk about next one Raiden light man says why aren't modular power supplies standardized with the shape of the connection to the actual unit it seems like different brands have their own ideas as to what shape to use whether it looks like a mirror image of the connector or if it looks like a giant SATA cable what would it take for this to be standardized that's a hard the last part target question how about why don't they standardize at first I talked about this and our video about do not mix and match modular power supply cables cuz you'll kill stuff and the conclusion we had was it's not necessarily inherently bad that they're not standardized as long as there's a good reason for it and there isn't always but I'll give you some of the arguments we've heard from manufacturers one of them is that they just think they do it better than the other people and so why should they conform to someone else's standard if they think theirs is better that's a lot of it's like pride and sometimes it's valid another one the company might want to make a universal header so EVGA does this what there's where some of their power supplies you can just plug whichever cable and said whatever slot you want it'll work and there's validity there but it's more expensive to do it's bulkier and all the other vendors don't want to play ball they have their own way of doing it so that's what it comes down to it's it's they think there are solutions better and that's fine that's product development and no one wants to meet common ground whether or not it's bad thing it's kind of hard to say if you're not aware that these are non-standard and that mixing a matching kill stuff which I would assume definitely most people don't know that because why I mean you would I would think the average user especially people like the average user doesn't watch us first of all I think the average user you look at the end of the cable then you go okay that's a standardized pin out it plugs into a motherboard it's standardized like on our man store to cure sex it's not that so standardized so why would you then think that the other side is not standardized I don't think the average person would jump to that I think they would probably assume that they're all standard so that's definitely a concern where you have people who are gonna damage stuff just because they didn't know any better to be fair some of the vendors like see sonic in the past have put stickers like over the power button or over the power switch over the SOT the power plug socket that's a do not use power cables from other power supplies so as long as I say that I'm fine with it but why isn't it standard I think it's just because they all think that they can do it better than the next person and they're probably supply chain reasons as well but and then also just being different because let's face it with power supplies even though there are differences things like ripple a lot of it's just not glamorous and so you have to find something else to make it different like oh you can plug this cable in anywhere you want so I think that's a lot of what it comes down to night rush says why is it some tasks take a while to process despite not using 100% of a particular resource for example decompressing a file 20% CPU no single core is at 100 percent 5% disk is your presenter network is there just thread just sleeps programmed in or is it something else first of all I have decent half answers to this the other half I'm not a programmer so please keep that in mind I'm not afraid to tell you when I run out of my area of expertise just just well I'll let you know when I get to that point so first of all some tasks take a while to process despite not using 100% of any particular resource it could be that giving them a hundred percent of the resource won't speed it up because of the programming side we've dealt with this with our own sorceress oh I can speak to this a bit better than other people software we have software in-house that processes things for like our console benchmarking we process really big videos sometimes compress sometimes not and and do framerate analysis on them and we haven't optimized the code a whole lot because it's not a publicly available thing so who cares and what happens is just because the way it's written we do things like change how many pixels were skipping when we're or whether it's grayscale or not different considerations for how long between frames is considered terror versus a drop versus whatever and depending on those parameters it can take longer or shorter to complete the task and the codes just frankly it's just not optimized so it runs really poorly sometimes on certain types of CPUs and that's all there is to it it's just we we didn't program it with with all thread counts in mind and program it with all cache sizes in mind anything like that so that's that's potential limiter outside of code get into the hardware stuff it could be a cache limitation you might be running a program that is particularly intensive on cache you might be running a program that is hitting something like memory which you didn't list there's always possibility that you're just limited by memory frequency we've certainly seen it before especially with our overclocking live streams another thing here I don't bring up a side point is that I've seen as multi-core CPUs get more popular I've seen a lot of people who are really excited that their CP is not being fully used for like anything that's not something to be excited about if you paid for the resources you want them to be in use so ideally what happens is it's a hundred percent engaged when you're doing whatever the thing is gaming or otherwise and then if you have to multitask and do something that's actually multitasking ideally there's some thread scheduling going on either in Windows or manually through task manager and you can assign those resources elsewhere not just have like 30% of your CPU unused because there's no guarantee that that part of the CV is gonna be used when you open the next application so that's complete side note but anyway I am NOT a hundred percent of an expert on this what I can say on the program inside let me add what I can't say is that there might be hidden bottlenecks you're not able to monitor so cache is a great example of this there could be and I don't think this is a case with your question but there could be thermal limitations maybe you're hitting t.j.maxx temperature Junction max and in doing so it's just not able to run that the targeted frequencies and so then you have lower utilization overall you could be running into with current limitations could be running into issues with VRM SPID protocol between the cpu in the and the vrm and and whether one is overheating or the or not and a disk you mentioned but disk is always a concern to interfaces what interface are you going over to get to the disk is that a bottleneck typically not but it can be with SATA for example stuff like that so that's kind of my disjointed answer I think that will give you a few things to think about but I do think a lot of this is going to come down to thread scheduling windows abstraction layers api is software and some of these things I know more about than others but you know that's the best I can do for you right now API as I can speak to briefly though DirectX 12 dx11 and Vulcan for example you'll see different resource utilization than those based on how well the game has done to program for that thing Doom is a fantastic example Vulcan sniper is a fantastic example of dx12 a lot of really bad examples of dx12 and in these tasks you'll see that something like like dx12 that's just wrapped it's like dx11 with the dx12 wrapper you worst rapper name ever dx11 dx12 dx11 rapper or the inverse rather you'll end up with poor resource utilization and some one sense isn't actually overhead rather than a benefit or just a lot of problem the x12 had originally anyway that's best I can do for you on that one sorry next one Red Mage Cecil Oh actually know what for any programmers in the audience please post a comment and just add just add to what I said about like specifically when you are writing code what specific areas of optimization can you do to improve resource utilization make sure that a components being fully utilized because I think we all hear this word optimization a lot and I'm included in this group of we all and it doesn't always mean anything so if you program stuff and you know specifically like when this might apply on a software level and not a hardware level then please post a comment let us know what of things do you have to optimize what gets optimized in your code in order to improve performance and I think we can all learn from that so thank you very much if you do that take the time for it Red Mage Cecil says on a board with poor VRMs is it worth looking into a beefy downdraft cooler to help keep the VR arms cool while pushing bigger overclass or is it not worth it because the coolers can't handle those big clocks anyway there's part of some truth to that I talked about this in a previous episode on downdraft coolers and I think it was just like our downdraft cooler is better or something like that it was a nasty end video and the answer is a downdraft cooler will help the vrm cooling but you might become loaded on CPUs as you said and there better ways to cool the VRM and ultimately the problem is just like yeah the vrm is gonna be a bit cooler by having that air going over even if it's warm air this is something people lose track of a lot where they'll say they like they'll post comments and say well but the air is hot because it came off the CPU cooler and now that hot air is going over the vrm yes but it's still better than no air flow like a sealed tomb and when you're talking about a component like a MOSFET that can go to 120 plus degrees easily in really bad conditions and bad design so in those conditions any air flow is better than no air flow unless it's coming out of like like a heat gun so yes they do help with vrm thermals but typically downdraft coolers are going to be more limited than your average CLC or like big Noctua air cooler or something like that so it's a balancing act and you'll end up being bottlenecks by cpu before the V arms in that case most likely but I talked about this for several minutes in the other sgn maybe just search the channel for like downdraft cooler I think you'll find it last one last one act LZ says you do a lot of case reviews and talk about air flow a lot would it be possible to get a video on some good air flow setups fan positions especially in regards to this new trend with the glass right it's the fans some solutions to this for better air flow for instance would be reverse reversing it so the air flow comes up from the back on top okay so yeah I get I get the gist here we can and have talked about this the trouble with this particular question is if you're talking about if you're getting cases I can give you like guidelines but KS testing as we've said is one of the least scientific approaches to any kind of testing because every single component impacts air flow there's a radial or axial fan on the GPU the tower cool or liquid cooler are you what what's the fan configuration on the case are using the same fans does that even make sense for a stock fans all this stuff so let me give you some brief guidelines just things to consider and then try to apply those to your case because I every case and hardware configuration will be different so they're not all gonna be the same like if I tell you put a fan on the top front as intake and with this case with this setup you might get three degrees cooler performance that's not gonna be three degrees for everything so couple things to consider first one is that even though and I've said this before even though hot air rises it does not come close to combating the speed of a fan so hot air might rise but cold air can rise to when you're blasting it through a 2,000 rpm fan so things to consider here several times in our testing there's been cases where if you take a fan and mount it in the top but not the back the top front as in before the CPU cooler and sort of the canonical view of the airflow pipeline as it were you mount it to the top front as intake that'll push air basically straight into the CPU it won't have to contend with the GPU for or any other components it's just for the CPU that works really well in a lot of cases you have dust considerations here I'm not going to talk about those too much today but there are dust considerations keep that in mind so that's one thing a lot of people don't think about is is it's just and myself included many years ago when I was starting is that you think I should put exhaust in the top because that just makes sense and it does absolutely but for some cases with tower coolers especially is actually better just to do top intake another thing to consider exhaust in the top in the top front will actually oftentimes hurt CPU performance and that's because if you have air coming in from the front of the case and you have an exhaust fan here and at our cooler here just kind of imagine it all the air comes in and like half of its gonna get pulled straight out it'll never touch a single component on the case it'll get removed from the system before it gets to the CPU and so we've done tests on in case reviews before where you'll see thermals are much worse actually when you have any path of exhaust that is reached by the intake before it reaches a component to cool down set component so that's consideration you could do for example another thing to consider top intake again if you do top intake but it's kind of like behind the CPU cooler it's certainly not gonna help the CPU very much at that point especially I mean it's most likely just going in and then out of the exhaust fan but if it's behind or above the tower cooler and just blowing air like say above blowing air through the fins and down then you'll get your GPU a couple degrees warmer maybe one two three not much that does apply pretty universally that's because you're now putting hot air into the back of GPU so that's something to think about bottom intake is a great way to cool the GPU power supplies Stroud's are a great way to obstruct cooling to the GPU but there are shrouds that work really well like NZXT h 500 trout just happens to work actually pretty damn well so yeah bottom intakes great way if your case supports it and it's near the GPU to get video card temperatures down specifically side intake is absolutely unbeatable for GPU cooling especially but CPU and some scenarios and that's just because it's so damn close closer you get the fan especially if it's also still close to the source of the intake cuz you get the fan of the component the cooler the components gonna be when the air hits it cuz the air doesn't have to travel as far and so the pressure is gonna be higher and so I'll be able to push it'll be able to help dissipate more heat off of whatever fin snag your cooling other things to consider what else should I mention here trying to oh yeah this is a good one the BitFenix end so this is something that I think is it's pretty uncommon to consider we certainly didn't consider till we fifteen exam so I had an interesting one so if you mounted a fan can't remember photos at the top or the middle but it had three two or three fan slots on the front and what would happen is if you mounted a fan or two fans and some of them but not the last one or two slots it would actually get because there was no place where air to exhaust in that case really or there was at least less exhaust space than there was in take space what would happen is the hot air would go through the cooler or whatever on the CPU some of it would get out of the case but it doesn't have enough pressure to get all of it out and the pressure system is positive intake so what happens is a lot of it recirculates around the cooler and it'll either get sucked back in as warmed air and just kind of cycle and create this nasty cycle or it'll actually get pulled towards the front of the case by the intake fans because the intake fans aren't exposed enough to the outside so they apply an air in from inside the case behind them and it'll recirculate back through there and that's that's pretty interesting phenomenon that we saw with the N so if you want to check it out a bit Phoenix on so so I know that's there's a lot more here to talk about that's pretty good I think you could also add directional fans inside the case that aren't directly exposed to air but are just directional to redirect the air that's gotten into the case so like something just on a spike over the VRM or something if it's a gigantic huge case you have like another fan and here somewhere just to kind of keep the air directed at the component you want to direct to that and things like that and then pressure systems also consider so it is kind of interesting too in our H 500 review the NZXT one we found that having two exhaust fans actually worked way better than we thought even for GPU cooling and part of that is because it was a negative pressure system the air is only going out so cool air will find its way in through whatever holes are in the case to equalize the pressure system and some of that meant that air was getting actually pulled in through the back of the expansion slot for the PCI expansion slot the video card and getting pulled into the video from outside the back of the case and actually worked pretty well but then there are other times where like in the a C's Mini ITX prototype we saw it Computex talked about with in the video with - about products that most need improvement at Computex another thing that can happen is you might have exhaust like from the power supply at the back and then pressure system that will pull some of that air in and into the video car and that just happens based on if it's like a negative pressure system or something like that there's nowhere else for to get access to air lots of really fun things yeah that's super quick recap quick of some of our case testing of the last year I can't possibly do it justice and sum it all up keep watching our case reviews we talked about it all the time I think that gives you a few cool ideas that of what can happen and hopefully you can just just look at your own case and try to think about where each of those make sense it's different for every case I've given you guidelines I think you can use them to figure out what makes sense in your scenario that's it for this one we just shot that's third one after moving furniture and building it for like 16 plus hours yesterday and then also coming home and doing way more work for videos so sorry I'm a bit tired stick with me you've got a really cool office movie coming up so we're looking forward to it because it's gonna be a lot more technical content and we could do here and I yeah subscribe for more go to patreon.com/scishow Saxons Thomas I directly go to store gamers Nexus dotnet to pick up one of our mod mats they are in stock and shipping now and we're trying to keep them in stock but we're having trouble so we might run out of this run as well get your order in sooner than later if you want it otherwise video card posters we have in abundance they are pretty popular and I signed 10 at 10 of them which are being distributed at random as people buy these so it might be a couple of those left as well I might go signing a couple more just for fun next time I'm over there it's it for this one thanks for watching I'll see you all next time