Gadgetory

everyone welcome to another episode of ask yen and actually one of the last ones we'll be filming in this space pretty sad actually mostly to me probably but it is one of the last SAS gens we'll be filming here we're moving to the new office basically immediately after this within 24 hours all this stuff is going over there and by the time the office shoots go up we'll have already been in there for a while so at some point senior AMD analyst snowflake may be joining me for this episode she is in here hanging around but we have a lot of good questions for this week we're shooting three she is right on cue shooting three of them and one will be for patreon backers on patreon.com sorry for the microbe there patreon.com slash cameras Nexus for that you can stay here on the channel or subscribe to catch the second episode if this one doesn't go up first and just to answer the immediate question snowflakes still going to be in videos we have set last time but just do it again she'll be in b-roll shots even when we're in the new office so don't worry about that before that this video is brought to you by the corsair strafe RGB mark to mechanical gaming keyboard the strafe mark 2 uses Cherry MX which is available in MX red and MX Island and uses the elevated key cap design that has become part of course there's keyboard identity elevated key caps make the keyboard much easier to clean with a blast of compressed air and limit dirt build up the keyboard use a metal body design of hat received praise from us in the past in old reviews for high build quality learn more about the Corsair strafe mark 2 at the link in the description below alright so for this week I I need I need this can I can I please have this thank you so we have a couple good ones first of all GM store has been fully restocked so we have the mod Madison stock for now we have the chalkboard shirt The Blueprint shirt graph shirt everything's been restocked so check out store I don't we took off a bunch of stuff from that shelf so she can fit in how just were like heroes next to Steinmetz pick that stuff up if you're interested in it first question is from rive ok who says well GN test be quiet dark rock pro 4 or other coolers in the near future yes there are a lot of questions about this so some of you may remember I wanted to do an air cooler roundup last year but I'm not doing it because it would have required turned down a few benches that I needed and we're gonna have the space now so actually I just got done arranging and organizing an inventory and with the rest of the team all the coolers that includes the air coolers and those will be soon featured in a massive air cooler roundup at some point we might do individual tests up until then though so yeah we have a lot of testing that I've wanted to get to for a long time that we can finally get to because I'll have more space to actually work with that's not just filled with stuff next question is from Yousef Manzi Yousef who said or I guess I copy/paste your name twice re Yousef Manzi said if you do not have built-in vcore Reid points on your motherboard what is the best way to go about measuring it with a standard multimeter also kind of secondarily why is the software temperature values more trusted or accurate in comparison to these software v core values different things so to answer your immediate question if you don't have built-in Pro points you can find other ones does I mean they still exist it's just they're not designated as Pro points so an example would be I don't have any motherboards left here really except stuff that's in use so I have a dead one hang on so a great example just this board is dead it's not because I pasted the socket it was already dead it's kind of riskier but you can take a of course comes over with an AMD motherboard q you can take a motherboard and locate the vcore capacitors that correspond to the vcore VRM on the back of the socket like I said it's a bit riskier because if you don't have steady hands and you bridge the components then you can create a big arc but and that's not good typically so we've done this in the past but what you would do is you get the motherboard off you take all the vrm heat sinks off of it and you can just start probing the vcore BRM for resistance and find where the different capacitors are going on the other side so you can figure out if you know which part of the vrm here is 4v core as opposed to like SOC or IO or si or whatever you may be working with find which part is V core probe one of the like the legs for a choke or something or masa whatever and then probe a bunch of capacitors on the backside until you find something that is connected you just do a resistance check so that'll tell you which ones are connected do that while it's off and once you know which ones are connected you can turn on and probe the same capacitor versus front and back side of it so there's two ways you can do this the riskier way is and the more accurate way technically is to probe the capacitors grap gonna push the mug off the table throw in a bit of attach from there ah you probe the ground versus the other side it's a bit riskier you're shoving two probes into a socket with a bunch of tiny components and probing two sides of something where there's there's a risk of jumping things are keen things alternatively you can do what we did previously and you probe one side of the capacitor that you know goes to V core VRM and then you stick the ground into like a molex round pin and I'm molex cables in front of me here but their standard pin out we actually we have more lifes wiring diagrams on our mod mat on tutorial at Cameron's excess than that if you ever need one readily accessible it's on the Ahmad mat so looking at my own mod mat here the ground pins are the middle two on molex connectors stick the ground in one of those take the red and probe the correct capacitor you'll have a bit of an accuracy so this depends on the length of the cable depends on a couple of other things but for a standard link cable typically snowflake she just knocked the cryo not off the table - it's really throwing a fit today all right let me backtrack that a bit I got distracted by the snowflake dealings so typically the inaccuracy just to make sure I got it correct here it's it's not a ton it's like 20 to 50 millivolts something like that on average so yes it will be an accurate but it's close enough that you can pretty much get it if you don't have read points and if you don't want to risk the more accurate method of probing the socket with both probes so that would be the way to do it and that's that's if you don't have built and read points next thing I don't know if there might be like debug tools you could buy tool - I'm not sure I know I may just go back to the socket but oh yeah your question about why is softer CPU core package temperature values more trusted or accurate in comparison to the V core values they're different things so it depends on what you're reading but with like hardware info 64 you're going to have multiple read points for V core so you'll have read point at the motherboard you'll report it at the CPU and those are gonna be different values so make sure you get the right one for what you're looking at because if you get get like the V core CPU value versus V core motherboard value there's disparity there if you're looking at the wrong one it might look too high or too low versus reality and then software is just generally a little inaccurate with that kind of stuff anyway I had another interruptions you had to leave the room it's go probably do some real work next one Alex Trotta asked you in our reviewers allowed to say they are under NDA now almost universally any NDA the whole point of the NDA is that it's also under NDA and like some people think that's funny or stupid but it's really not because I mean if you if you get an NDA not many companies by the way do signed NDA's it's pretty rare but if you get one or if you get just a verbal agreement of an embargo and then the next thing you do is you go say hey guys I'm under embargo with Intel with gigabyte with in video with kindness spoils it doesn't it cuz there's a good chance you can figure out what's happening even if you don't know the specifics you still know that oh okay I know CP is coming over new GPU is coming so yeah it makes perfect sense that that would also be covered now the lines have been blurred here a lot with the rise of influencers and the rise of YouTube and stuff like that so traditionally in ages past and we were once almost entirely article driven I'll remind you on gamers Nexus net traditionally what happens is get information you get an embargo date and there is zero discussion of that information until the embargo date there's no unboxing there's no tweeting photos of the product if you have it there's no social media anything there's no like basically free marketing and advertising so it was you got the information you shut your mouth and you worked on it and then when embargo lifts came you published it but now because these companies have realized the power of influencers and the power of just YouTube in general even for those of us who don't consider ourselves you influencers now the companies have realized that power in terms of sales volume they try to leverage it and so they do that by having unboxing embargoes and by having an unboxing the news embargo a review embargo all like a week apart each with pre-orders up before reviews are up and stuff like that so like I said the lines have blurred where the meaning of an embargo or an NDA when at once meant all this informations shut up don't talk about it so tell your all you and all your peers can talk about it which also by the way generally is a good thing because it means we can spend more time on something rather than rush to all try and kill each other to be first and whoever supplies least information so it's a good thing to have those those embargo restrictions in most cases for complex products but sidebar there so besides that point the the idea of an embargo or an NDA now includes things like having nonverbal Understanding between parties that if you share so Media photos of the thing they're probably not gonna reprimand you they might look the other way you probably shouldn't do it but chances of getting in real trouble are pretty low because it's it's not going to do anything except for move product and and then there's other things like unboxing embargoes which are separate from information embargo and stuff like that so it's answer your question typically no but with the way social media is now on how it's erupted even though typically no you can't talk about if you're under MDA or embargo you'll kind of get the hints from a lot of people just because the companies look the other way if it's just a tweet with a photo or something some advertising whatever another thin on this is there are there are times when we might say if we're under NDA or embargo or not it really just depends on what what's going on what the product is it's stuff like that also keep in mind that being under embargo NDA or aware of a launch doesn't mean that people in media actually have information on the product because there's a bit of lead time there normally where everyone's kind of getting caught up and there are different regions so different regions of media have to get on the same embargo at different times based on their regional managers things like that I don't know if I have anything else to add there I think that more or less covers it but the answer is no you shouldn't but sometimes you can just generally speaking it's agreed that you don't share the NDA and the really interesting irony with that Nvidia NDA that we we did the video talking to a lawyer about it and several other people talked about that NDA a while ago the interesting irony with that one is that the document itself was leaked and the document permits discussion of what was confidential information under the guideline that it has been posted publicly by someone so the document was posted and therefore the document allowed the discussion of the document that the NDA because it was posted publicly so it's kind of just a fun irony there next one as on Cherise says when NVIDIA runs out of scientists to name their GPU architectures after would you like to what would you like to see them start using islands like AMD did parks or cats like Apple did for OSX I think I I think AMD or Nvidia when they run out of names for their architectures they should start naming their products after Nordic death metal bands along with using the fonts for those bands so that nobody can read them that's that's that's what I would do I'm sure it'd be very marketable next one is savage savage says ever have anything any component damaged by a pet also any stories about breaking expensive tech or any times he came close I have I have discussed this once in the past but I'll bring it up again same story probably probably for some of you but it's been a while there was a time when actually with one of these socket motherboards in am3+ board I think some of you may be familiar that PGA boards like this the AMD boards especially with FX when you remove the cooler a lot of the time it'll rip the CPU out of the socket with it if the thermal paste is kind of acting a bit like a glue there's some surface tension there is some suction when you remove the cooler because of the way the the socket is not quite as secure as a full retention socket like LGA which and he also uses these days so if you're familiar with that yes you can like wiggle it back and forth and it'll eventually break the seal and you can pull it off generally fine not always the case that depending on what their own tastes are using so there was a time when I had like a 93 I don't remember that with CPU names to be honest with you I want to say there were 93 seventy and ninety five ninety or something like that the the high like the highest-end a.m. the FX cpu they still the box over there and those those were socketed and a board one of them and I removed the cooler it ripped the CPU out of the socket which is always something you you really don't want to deal with or see but when I closer I saw that one of the pins had been ripped out of the CPU and stayed in the socket and so fortunately I was able to restock it the CPU left the pin in there every socket it turn it on and it also worked now we never tested with that platform so I I mean which is a good thing because I don't know if anything would have been influenced by that but it worked fine and I didn't lose any memory channels I didn't lose any performance so that was a close call I mean it did break the processor yes a few things not every pin is used but also because I left it in the socket and just remounted it was still making contact to the pad so that was a fun one pets no not really I mean snowflake nearly shattered this glass if that or this mug camera zexis mug nearly nearly shattered that a minute ago she pushed this thing off the table a few minutes ago but no no no actual damage I've killed a lot of stuff though just with like latent ESD and stuff like that next one is from Stefan Spence in a couple of questions in a series hope it's ok will your new studio allow you to do test you know custom loop hardware if so what kind of tests if not why not the answer is in order yes it will allow us to do custom loop hardware same problem we don't have the space here to do it because especially custom loop it takes so much space just to have like a drain area and what kind of tests I'm Marcus I mean I'll show you some of them so I want to do just like basic stuff so GPU GP block testing multiple blocks on the same card really controlled you know put like flow meters in there thermocouples in there all that stuff we'll do some at some more advanced stuff it's just don't have any space right now time is a problem too and moving to the new studio isn't going to solve that like I might get a couple extra hours per week because the time reduction in requirements to do other things like teardown benches but that's still going to be a problem so it's not going to be an immediate test mr. Nick in reference to limiting factor on CPU air coolers I have a question regarding the heat pipes since most cases mount the motherboard vertically and the cooler is mounted vertically how exactly do the heat pipes work it would seem that they would need to be up or down for the fluid inside to boil travel length of the pipe condense and then return for them to be truly efficient does that mean if you keep your case on the side so that the heat pipes go up and down they would be more efficient so this is in reference to I mentioned our old video TL DR how CPU coolers work it's great video it's one of the ones that I really like to making because we have some 3d animations in it that really help visualize a point search the channel for TL DR CPU coolers or something so yeah heat pipes quick refresh reheat pipes have a liquid in them and the liquid boils when it's over the cold plate and then it goes up the heat pipe it condenses at the top because that's the coldest spot comes back down the heat pipe through a wicking a sintered mesh or weave material or a composite material which is normally like just mixes of coppers in there so that the water trickles through copper sintered material or weaves or whatever on the way down and further improves the thermal conductivity and cooling capabilities of the heat pipe so that's the process the way it works in reference to your question so heat pipes it's not like liquid in this thing it's it's not the same where I can move this and the liquid is is moving around physically I mean I guess you could but with a mounted cooler just something that's on the heat pipes they're effectively vacuum sealed so that's pretty important the the liquid has a low boiling point it's not like water where it needs to be 100 degrees Celsius or something like that so low boiling point basically vacuum-sealed between these two things as it boils it the the gas that is a product of the boiling will move wherever it can and it's not going to be where there's liquid so it ends up getting pushed the end of the pipe where it can condense and drip back down or get be carried down I shouldn't say drip I think drip is what causes this question because if you say drip you think well how can how can liquid drip that way like how does that make sense where damnit that makes that's right like we can drip like that so I shouldn't be using the word drip I apologize that's confusing the word I should be using is capillary action that's what's going on so they're like I said there's a center to composite a MASH or weave or other type of copper material inside of these heat pipes and through capillary action you are getting the the movement the translation from one end to the other so it's that simple it's I mean it's if you take a paper towel and you dip just the end of it in a cup of water right you pull it out you can watch the water crawl up it's a capillary action stuff we learn about in an elementary school hopefully so that's the basics of of answering your question is there anything else I need to say it's it's a pretty natural process capillary pressure is involved for the transportation of the fluid so that there were several questions about that and they're very good and I hope that answers it for you next one is from Mustafa Ahmed who says just wanted to know why doesn't Intel include the IGP you with HED TCP is very simple answer here you have a limited amount of die space silicon space under the IHS the die is much smaller than the heat spreader itself and then the CPU package itself and part of that die is a portion to whatever cores to cache and to the GPU if it has one i GPUs now are starting to take significant i spaced upwards and i am these stuff AP use the ones that are like good upwards of 50 plus % so you imagine taking that amount of die space even let's say 30% of a die all of that area could potentially be cores to be cache anything else inside of the registers whatever so you're you're taking that area and allocating it to a GPU which I think in Intel and AMD s vision if you look at thread Ripper both of them seem to think that for a workstation part that's supposed to be focused on B and a CPU and nothing else it doesn't make sense to suck up some of that die space and use it presumably that will likely not really be used other than for troubleshooting or out of I mean just out of compactness because you wouldn't have to use a slot for a GPU for for video out if he didn't need one so I think generally speaking they and I would agree with with the companies on this they see that the H EDG CPUs are meant to be pure CPUs that do CPU things and that's it and then if you want a video out you can buy video out or a GPU to do those things so it's it's conservation of a very limited amount of dye space to increase the amount of cores basically you know think of a think of if you had an HDD like threader per thing imagine dedicating 50% of that dot of those dyes because they're multiple to a GPU now you might have something like 16 cores instead of 32 or whatever for threader for two so that's the idea next on Mork calling Orson says hey Steve an airburst liquid question but with a twist my understanding is that air dissipates heat quicker shaving off the bigger temperature spikes and liquid maintains a more constant temperature meaning less dramatic spikes in temperature of the whole system but possibly a gradual buildup of heat if running at full load for an extended period our own cat renders meaning long periods of full load what is better a more spiky at rapidly cooling CPU using air or a gradual build-up to a temperature that may result in a higher sustained temperature over a longer period the bigger thing here is you're going to be looking at stuff like noise considerations reliability redundancies how important is it that your system never has a failure and if it does do you have redundancies and a lot of people don't like closed-loop liquid coolers for that reason because there's zero redundancy if the pump fails same is kind of true for an air cooler with a fan but you can have multiple fans and I think typically people are more likely to notice of a fan failed and also they last for like 17 years if you get a good one so pretty unlikely anyway not that pump failures are all that common but they do happen and certainly when you start doing things like having mixing a pump with fans then you have multiple points of failure Plus fluid you have to worry about things like like permeation that's the what I'm looking for a permeation of the tubes so ignoring all that stuff and just directly to your question you are correct in that yes liquid will soak temperature better if you have big spikes so you're dealing with a large mass of liquid if you have something like a 280 millimeter cooler or something like that that's a lot of liquid so we have a sudden spike to 250 watts and then it drops down the actual increase in temperature is going to be pretty small and the liquid will soak it and and that is one of the advantages now whether or not that comes into play for you I think that's relatively uncommon I I think the bigger concern again it's gonna be things like noise and redundancy so if you really want a noise focus I'm liquid cooling is pretty unbeatable but if you don't care about that because it's tucked away you can't hear it then redundancy reliability might be more important but you want yes you're correct liquid will soak better technically speaking the air coolers might be able to dissipate heat quicker but the rest of it I would really make your decision based on other factors than those I guess is what I'm saying and as for what's best I'll give you a couple options here and then hopefully just pick for yourself but if you are focused on noise reduction a liquid cooler is a great choice because you can run the fans slower and they'll be quieter and the liquid does most work for you if you are focused on reliability and redundancy and uptime and you can never have downtime because it makes you money that system and it's going down cost you money then maybe air might be a good consideration liquids very reliable these days I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression but in extremely critical systems air cooling is going to have fewer points of failure but if you set up your alarms right and your bio shutdowns right and stuff like that you're gonna have any component damage if you hit t.j.maxx it'll shut down or throttle it's just you might have downtime on the system but again not super common the replacement rate of liquid coolers is going to match or or extend past usable life of your system so most likely really place and I liquid cooler and something like five years you don't keep your systems that long that's kind of an irrelevant consideration the the lifetime of the cooler but it is a consideration nonetheless and not all of them last that long wholly it gives you some ideas next one I think that's the last one for this episode corrupt says mod Matt is fantastic just bought to the real question is can it play crisis first of all thank you very much for buying to you that's awesome there are not many people who have bought multiple and we sincerely appreciate everyone who does we've got a decent amount warrants I thought well they're gonna be out of stock pretty soon again I'm trying to keep them in stock it's just it's difficult we're getting out of production run going last week but it'll be like another month you for those random will allow you to backorder them but if you order soon you'll actually get it shipped like immediately the real question though can it play crisis actually as we noted previously we especially bend our mod mats so only the select reviewers that we liked the most got a mod mat that was overclockable enough to play crysis a game from 2008 or something like that alright so that's it for this one subscribe or check back for the other episode that's going up patreon.com slash gamers access to get the bonus episode still move in a couple people last episode we're like your set doesn't look at the new office doesn't look better or the lighting looks bad or the audio whatever we we haven't actually like moved this stuff yet so it's still the old location but we will be soon so on the last this is the last set of ass gems we'll be filming here I believe unless I do some here just for nostalgia sake or something and one more question to answer that would wall back there behind the Shelf that is probably going to stay in the house this table wobbly ones probably going to stay and again cats notwithstanding because it will allow me to be roll with them in the shots the only thing is that it will allow me to do some videos from home maybe like a live stream when no one's at the office and I just want to like hang out with you guys and build a computer here or something like so anyway subscribe for more page hunter complex cameras and access to get the bonus episodes stored at game is excess net to pick up the mod Matt our shirts or anything else the beer glasses will be restocked very soon thank you for watching I'll see you all next time