Gadgetory

iono soon guys know what case modding is so I called around to all of my friends and on the forums on the internet Facebook and gathered up a dream team of case modders basically we're going to sit here and talk about each of the various different aspects of first modding some of the works that we've done and some things that you could do at home so just to kind of give quick introductions at the my left your right we've got Brian Carter odd mots is the name of this group he is done such Montes a Traum light cycle I know you guys are probably you've been to pax before you probably saw it on the insufficient for I think I don't think there's a single guy here that doesn't have one of their machines down the exhibition floor or the sum of their parts down the exhibition for next to Brian Carter we've got Mike Landon river and his his neutral zero customs and he is our expert slaver he's going to talk about sleeping today and as to him we got rich surahs' is our master of water cooling and we'll be chatting about that and then Bob Stewart I will be talking about painting lighting and any other aspects but let me just give you a quick little overview here um so just kind of go through some of the works that I've done if you guys were here last year we there was a hobbyist panel where I'm using case modder on that and since I'm kind of a hobbyist and these guys two pros will kind of show you some of their works as well the other thing I'd like to mention is all of these things up here or bills either by these guys or other monitors that we have any audience the one I'd really like to bring your attention is the one that we're going to be donating chow each and every one of us put together some parts presenting it to you Kelly so that she can auction off the doesn't buzz for hope and every single cent will be going to chocolate so if you're interested in the gaming box keep your eyes open it's going to be this one right up here in front I EDTA provided the motherboard I was the c77 for the win motherboard the video card was provided by rich I provided the processor reminding me SSD and the eventual crucial provided the SSD in the rain coolermaster and lee harrington provided the Box lead to the wonderful paint job and if you get a chance to swing by BYOC we actually had a case mod contest up there and Anthony Lackey on the first place his case is immaculately just awesome it's this huge white fitting with custom stiff flying water cool aluminum piping chrome piping beautiful sleeping and deserved every accolade of God but let's go ahead you start things off so uh right if you want to take it and go I will pull up the little skechers yeah my name's Ryan and I've been good morning for about nine years i started in 2004 just messing around for the window and a light in the case and have a brew much ugh just have to keep going I came from a hot body backgrounds I mean I potential is stupid of our powers and stuff and in high school so when we have into the computers it was just kind of a natural thing to start souping up the computers getting high performance parts in there maybe I look nice so I was going to try and talk about was kind of the previous part of case modding and how I get that question asked a lot is how to come up with casemod ideas and whatnot and so I might think about games or movies any kind of thing but it would be conducive to a good case mod and when I try and come up with the idea and not get a concept of my head I kind of it there's no no better substitute than a neighbor just immediately jotting stuff down but taking the next step to get more of a people's house that I work on the case I i use Photoshop quite a bit and just going through google images to try and as a paste i'm currently working on the cruiser case basically just took found images from google and just a lot of photoshopping to make it look like what i wanted it to look like you know once i get that basic idea of how the things going to look and I'll go into Sketchup which is a really cool 3d modeling program is free google had it on their site for a while but i think they may still without to tremble I think it was so you just Google Sketchup you'll find it it's free to download even though they have a pro version for my plan or 600 bucks but this is such an easy program to learn and to create a 3d model of the the case itself I've done in risk asus and just using Sketchup for previews and especially for custom cases it's really good to come up with the spatial concerns you know with the with all the hardware you going to know you know how it's all going to fit is the case and sizing is to make sure all the pieces fit perfectly like I did with the tron Capeside built that completely into Sketchup and there's actually a collection website that has a lot of Mercy hardware already already made so we just drop those in all the pieces that you want and you can set it up it's really quick and easy say out once i get all that done and then there's a matter of actually going building parts that's pretty much great thanks right so next we'll go ahead and put my comp spot here if you want to go ahead and tell everybody about sleep nice so how many guys in New York advising girls have actually heard sleeping or have a good idea what is his raise your hands okay so what have half sleeping in itself has been around for a very long time now the power supplies that we have now that come retail we're just starting to get into the them starting to be individually sleeved strength in the factory most of them are bundled sleep which we've all seen you know a lot of course at ones and why not that was actually the beginning and it's funny how power supply manufacturers actually went back to the beginning of how power supplies reused actually bought them to do that when power twice first came out they were ugly totally totally not painted the cables had bunch o clear beige clips on them and then there was no sleeping on him whatsoever so basically the beginning of cables leaving was retook like a PE t which is a plastic filament polyester and it was a very loose braid it was very open it kind of looked like fishnet and basically we would put those on power supplies the beginning monitors would actually pay power supplies and we had to do a quick stretch now you can just go up and you get for me atleast a power supply and thirty pain black and certainly done for you it took a while but eventually individual sleeping came about and there is 500 different people that all take credit for being the first person to do dividual individual sleeping i couldn't i wouldn't even start to dare tell you guys who it was or who did or started it but it has become a huge trend nowadays whenever you see a professional mod or any kind of mark on the show for like you've seen you know downstairs if you guys have had a chance to go check out the cooler master room you'll see that all the cables are individually sleeved and then bundled and then not only that but they're took in in a way that kind of flows up the case so cable sleeving has become a tool to kind of more represent the colors of a case mod more get into it with the details and more bring a flow of color what's awesome is that a lot of monitors if you want to step further completely plain case and then their color element will come from the sleeping so that PDT has evolved so much through the years if you guys have heard of sleeping or been in the sleeping game when you've probably heard of mtbc at one point time they get a lot of credit the owner's name is Neil apopka and dinner for Germany and he has been around for a very long time he was the first really worldwide produced leaving just for individual sleeping just for power supplies and it was a very niche network in through the years it's developed over and over and over and over there's different weaves and braids and I could really get into that but that really bore you and you guys probably wouldn't want to hear about that anyway but if you showed you some of those pictures you can see how the different way if you have that brown one yes if you can see the braids on there that is actually one of my home that I came up with and it's called a stiff lines and you can see the individual breading the way we use tighter and tighter so that you can't even see it now it's been produced so that it's easy to do heat shrink lists and most of the beginning when we first started getting into individual sleeping everything was done with you drink and if you've ever worked with it it's tough it's a pain in the butt it's not fun to work with it all it's really hard to get straight it it's very key is sleeping in general is always going to be tedious but for that custom look that is the only way they were going to be able to get it you can go to the next one and you can see that the colors have you know evolved with they go from anywhere from pain to trying to match components most Cates motors nowadays what they try to do is they try to match the components out already in the system as you can see in the cooler master one down here I put red sleeping a red stiff line on the GPU and if you guys get a chance to later but underneath de que não sees a full 24 pin like I had on their rainbow one of them anyway yeah one of those and as you can see hello there's different bins and there's different forming just like these guys form metal in the same thing people that sleep or sleepers myself will do the same thing with the cable sleeping and it's funny how case modding is kind of car compartmentalised that people eat out like myself for instance just on this and there's people that do just lighting people that do just case you know fabrication case modding in itself is just like an onion there's a layer upon layer upon layer upon layer and cable sleepings is one of those things that add on to the full aspect of the whole case mod experience and as this is showed you there's so many different ways and forms and my company moved or customs comes out with different braids we have stiff line chelios and even Corliss fairport and it's just going to keep on evolving as the case or as case mine keeps evolving and sleepings becomes such a standard now like I said earlier is this going to keep involving it to keep being easier eventually companies are going to start coming out with color packages like this in 15 X in a EVGA where we started doing that because as you get into modding and as you get into really messing with your case you know not everybody have the time to sit down and do full sleeping like this because you know it's T if something I got to have a hands for it and whatnot but as case Monaco it's leaving this is going to keep you all in with it that's all I got cool hey thank you my next to the bobster if we were skipping right richest that's the last so I'm going to talk to you a little bit about painting and some lighting as well and I he's going to run a little video of just some of the builds as I've done so how many people here do their own painting see your hands so few so there how many people think that they can't paint okay so since I have your hand still go back up since you got hand them can you go like this with your finger there's one guy can't be you know really that's all it takes you know it starts out with spray can and you just kind of graduate up two different things and so before you know it you'll have a hairbrush area and they'll be doing all kinds of crazy stuff but there's some tricks to it obviously there's a some things you learn along the way and I got my start I was on one of enthusiasts like Ryan over there i restored numerous cars and a lot of custom paint jobs and stuff like that and full restorations so you know I just kind of learned it there and then when I went to my first land party I saw rich here had these fancy painted cases and it just kind of all clicked I thought I never thought that I could do some of that you know so there that's how it all got started but so this is just show different things that that'd so that you know just media stuff to dig around doing things like that at all so forget started here run too much I want to recognize a person here a guy that's helped me quite a bit on some of my bills here recently and stuffed of his name is rod Rosenberg he's right here we stand up he's already a really good modern everything himself we've been pretty busy lately with a lot of bills so he kind of comes and helps me out and so he knows all my secrets so I security there's tells everybody everything I know here so i think that video it thanks rod for all your girl appreciated I mean it's not really just help we're kind of you know we go together stuff stuff so recognizably so with paint you know it starts out it's kind of a good better best really you've got you can use a spray can you can go you know whatever store by spring in and do that or you can you want to go up to a little better system and you want to buy at just a cheap spray gun you can use they have quarts of paint that are like pre-mixed and also they're ready to spray so they're already reduced down things like that is pretty cheap if you want to go the best route usually when i use is on what it painted a curling urethane base coat fur coat so the only problem there is it's really expensive like that was about nine hundred dollars worth of paint materials aren't there so thread is the most expensive obviously the one of the things with paint is you run into problems it seems like there's maybe one way to do writing about thousand ways to do it wrong so if you've ever painted you may be experienced some weird things where it wrinkles or runs or you know is different kinds of things and it has to do a temperature humidity just you know maybe applying the wrong kind of primer first or something like that so just always read the directions basically and then you know YouTube has tons of videos on there and good health videos on how to you know spray I shot that video image to the throne one is up there now is actually down in one of the booths in stone and those are uh take welts by the way we you know we had the trolls come out in full force on some of the different videos of stuff and they were commenting on how those were crappy as well as they never seen I I took it as a compliment because the fact that the other real well because that's when I was calm for so whether they thought the crappier bearded I guess it's still a compliment so done that was just an example of something where I utilized my former experience with automotive industry I used a cognitive seam sealer in a caulking gun and produce well beats and then just paint in the airbrush to everything in there and stuff so yeah just give a nice effect but yeah Ron I work work really hard on that when there was a lot of hours or so but the other thing is lighting probably the newest trend right now it's LED strip light and some of our remote control someone for single colors or multicolor all kinds of stuff like that and the thing that's nice about the RGB LED light strips is that they can be changed to any color you want and so you know you're in the mood for blue one day you turn it to blue if you already have read whatever stuff but if you're looking at yeah there's remote controls there's different ones 2014 44 key that kind of stuff and also the there's waterproof and non waterproof and so if you're looking at purchasing some you want to you want to pay attention to what you're getting the there's two different sizes there's 3528 and there's fifty biscuits and that refers to the size of the chip and the 50 50 s are a little bit bigger chip and they're also a try led so they have the red green and blue all built into the one lens so it produces actual real colors rather than pulling a red light green light blue light and blending I mean stuff like that so but and then there is a waterproof and non waterproof which you know in a computer you don't really need waterproof and let's just spring a leak you know what our riches are you know regular eggs yeah it happens so but the waterproof strips actually they have a silicone shield own room it does kind of help make the like low a little bit nicer so they're typically a little bit more money but they are a nice system so i recommended we use those in all of our bills so dollar perfect thanks Bob and now we're going to go ahead and go to the professor here racer oz though recently accepted a position on doing chair for information technologies for a college yeah so it's cool not only do I get that you can smarter better get some love teach this modern so we do water cooling and liquid nitrogen cooling all kinds of cool stuff in my coma college but I teach it i GT in same working chair by key by the way uh my name's Richard but dude google search for dark divison if you find some really embarrassing pictures to hold it against me there's lots of so we're going to go a little bit back to the future talking about case modding overall and this really goes across the board in the computer enthusiasts niche we actually have two groups kind of like Apple of PC users and to go back and forth and kind of fight a little bit so we have those who are going for performance like overclocking your pc and we have the church or for aesthetics but it actually all started is going back or performance so if you look way way way back even before the big issues that Mike was talking about we had a really nasty wiring and computers if you remember those IDE ribbon cables and so if you picture trying to do wire management with those puppies the main thing our main problems besides looking mcnasty is that it really blocks the air flow and when you block airflow your computer itself heats up heats up my tandem how we shut down so you can't overclock and you can't get the performance game that you want so back to the day we had to basically do origami with that type of wire management and so they eventually came out with you know the you know the power of suppliers that had the bundled tables and then awesomes does like Mike and others came up with individual sleep cables which would out like to actually route it underneath the motherboard trailer to hiding and so there was a paragraph for a while that wire management was about hiding the cables not have an invisible that was the entire goal you're the biggest Pam did you get higher title your cables you couldn't even tell they were there then when people like might come around and you have you know cables that look like works of art you're actually able to know have the cable be part of the aesthetics of the case and be a highlight in the feature not something to hide so that's shows you that modding is evolved and so we still try to go for poor performance but you know now there's kind of like gap between some people who just want aesthetics and they're going to go for the pimpest case you can buy maybe they're going to scrimp on hardware and it's more like an art form some people are just 14 spoke when we come to water cooling that kind of brings it all back in and water cooling again just like to know what the wire management was initially designed for performance so no they make we made our own water blocks that look like really get up I know we would use a heater core some cars I mean it it was just absolutely ugly but it was cool because we're different and we got to increase the performance of our computers and you're probably wondering well how does water cooling allow you to increase performance it's all about overclocking so when you overclock the CPU one of the key things that you do is you increase voltage to the processor once you increase voltage you increase heat and at a certain point and that your computer can just handle it and it will go into thermal shutdown and so the overclocking process is a matter of button you're bumping up in front side bus and they'll get a little bit of bulb ditch find out when it's blue straight me back off a little bit Potter sweet spot they're good to go the water cooling allows you to actually pull on more heat so you can get a better overclocked at least you know that's how it traditionally was and so we came up with all kinds of wild water-cooled systems and of course there's more extreme thing if you like phase change which uses refrigeration to get your processor down below on ambien and a liquid healing but liquid cooling is accessible by the mainstream most of us can do it so that's the reason behind it and this time the time is developed and in a more manufacturer for paying attention to those of us remove yourself herbs and want to have aesthetic just I can see with the beautiful cables well they've also developed special products / water coolness in cooler so you'll have really nice beautiful water blocks like by UK company is like Kremlin she'll make color tubing we just have like a whole array of products that case modder is used to have two fat by hand that are widely available for everybody so it's a lot easier now to water cool but it still takes a lot of skill and there's case mutters have you seen what we saw was in the other cases we push the envelope so we use you know water cooling tubing as flexible it's beautiful but we still need to push yambol so we want to do something different and now we're doing hard lines they can be metal hard lines and now we're using acrylic hard lines of you so you can look at the queen of blades so you can actually take part acrylic and you can bend it to be the exact shape that you want we'll talk about them that get there so the bottom values that there's a wide array of products and how many people here have water cooled informed i okay so if you have some options so if your first beginning they have what they call a io are going so everything is included you know kind of like a horse thermaltake make really nice ones and those are completely legit they will allow you to dissipate enough heat from today's cooler running processors that you can get a nice i 5 gigahertz state will over talked with a couple clips of a bud but if you wanted to go you know the screw water cooling which is very vital with separate components there are so many products available doing something like this would probably be a little bit harder for our first timer but that's something you progress up to now but you can go to companies like upper for species and you know just by all the parts that you possibly want any color thing that you want no matter what kind of components you have either pc if you have you know one cpu on video card if you have 4-way sli i hope that you do crossfire right so pretty much no matter what you want you can buy but there's some basic things that you should think about it your water cooling so it's probably like any of the other project or types of modding up here number one is to have a plan so you don't just rush you out by a bunch of stuff and hey we're in a crime in this case fire that puppy up because I've done that before which creates quite a massive give a problem so plan plan plan do your research to come out on Form so how many people do it from pdx land okay smartest so you come out to pdx land come out to the barn notes say that you think about water cooling and you'll find so much support to come out just walking through step by step by step so come out be part of the community do your research and then once you go through and you actually start installing the parts and take precautions like do a leak test leak test is very critical that means that you don't apply a power to your motherboard you know for the first 24 hours you just jump or your PSU so you have the pump running and the water running through your system that could be installed under components or are outside your case before handed depends on how parallel you are do that so that way you know you count problems you capturing ahead of time you don't you don't fry your hardware so once you do your league chest you have a nice system built down I'm not going to walk it you're that kind of beyond the scope of a short conversation but you have questions about it in contact paramount on the forums but what always a try to instill is if you're going to do this enthusiast type thing is cool but if you'll share it and then you know it's like your fill inside then we know it's not alright so how many people get lab parties here okay so the rest of you should be coming out to LAN parties we have a BYOC here or probably the best LAN party on the finiteness PX land so you come out and show your show your ring come out to LAN party and make it work log out on form so how many people go out on farms here okay so make sure you come out and you do a work lock and you share your work and of course if you go you want to pick a good site so you don't have trolls ever blaming you because then you have to go out and kill them leverage what you've learned and share let other people learn as well you know and visit you know we're in that little niche group as it is and we want to expand your cyclic packs you know with you know our table toppers and gamers and stuff if you look at the total you know population of the United States who are smarter too but want to share it we love it and so lets you know continue that same thing with the enthusiast niche you know and hopefully we'll see more and more custom co-sponsor professionals like us and even people like you know out on the floor around at the BYOC victory so just to kind of expand on what rich mentioned we are community just like packs as a community or part of the packs community and in response to that you like as he was saying go to bed technet overclocked calm the matsu monitors ink is another good one that's what the majority to quit come people go to and these are places that you can ask questions find out how things are done and everybody they're brother and sister will answer those questions for it so but that doesn't mean you take the first answers being the right one yeah so being the fact that we our community we want to leave a good portion of this open for questions answers but before you all get up we wanted to give back to the community and if you check under your seats some of we're going to have them clips anybody that has a little clip will get a prize we've got some sleeping packages we have some bloody packages and there's this money let you see so you might want to check that there so we also have a power supply and fans oh so after how much strong answer done oh god you guys let's try a certain partner they're literally little and mega I glad you're all set now they have most efficient ways to low crawl longer back so if you guys wanna line up for questions and answers and then if you didn't find out one of these little Clips sleep oh yeah left oh so this should be 1100 but let's go ahead first person win I'm not trying to be cool episode HP pub crawl eyes that nitric so dangerous cool yes I have to go check out people so he gave my ton of health article i started k spotting actually despots but uh and so it super helpful really appreciated you do tons of communication work you do thank you but uh and also anyone who's looking at sleeping do not do care for just go straight to md proceedings right it's so much easier i cracked open it's terrible when i was going to ask you about it do you think that we obviously computers being one of the most important moments of our lives that we're seeing this huge rise in case modding and desk haunting and everything else because it is like your house your car one of those giving it fails if something happens your life goes on hold you guys see that as a big component of why we're seeing so much more interest in really showing off and glamorizing and customizing the way people use your gears yeah i think definitely computers are an integral part of our life and our generation we have in a totally different perspective you we really care about aesthetics and so you know it allows us to integrate that level of creativity and we want performance so whichever you don't bring it all together so i said i think it will hopefully keep growing by even with the with the proliferation of other device bird like the Nvidia shield it was a nice handheld that's still if you want to take that to the full potential of what do you need a high end pc right Ryan gaming system and so you're going to want to overclock that pup your want to get most bang for the buck and I think everybody wants to have a beautiful rig on their desk if you don't have a window in your rigs and you're wrong so yeah okay oh thank you to my back in the day and maybe I remember in my history wrong but back in the day every single computer box was the beige box nowadays I think connection I 12 you to think case modding and the enthusiast culture has forced manufacturers to start doing the more colors and like you're saying now the power station or power supplies are coming actually painted when I do you think the modding community is having big influence in that oh we're going to just address it yes you can still buy the base computer box there's place in Seattle capri pc where you can get a negative 70 s computer case about the size of this podium and then genuine dollars Mary and how they might you give it to you but that's one of those resources that you can find a girl noble house if you're not from here you can get antique-looking cases one of the mods i did was in an old to tester so I just shelled out the inside of that actually that you're judged to that case it was the first case modding contest I actually got into and well I didn't place he didn't actually hit some good advice for me as well but case questions yeah actually the bay is a pc one of the Kings manufacturers just for like a limited edition went back and get a base PC because you can't they just don't come and get anymore as it goes and that leg Richard was saying here we keep pushing the envelope so as consumers we keep demanding different products and if the hardware manufacturer keep up is they're always asking look at the community seeing what people are doing and then they start bringing out hardware I mean just like I said the power supply evolved from being completely ugly to being something that you can just pop in and it is completely completely about aesthetics that's why water coin is coming all-in-one now so people can easily get into water and yeah definitely the more we push the envelope the more people get into building the more people have feedback I would even go so far as to say it any piece of hardware that you see out there that's been aesthetically alter to be pleasing has done been a mod at some point or another somebody has sat down and made it look like that a company took notice but people like it and they mass-produced it so absolutely but in as re keep pushing it that just gonna keep going down that way and I should also have a lot of the subject consultant different companies so they saw our case modding and you know we have this new commission projects and so we actually have input on designs and you'll see if you look at this this case over here that came out to particular focus on enthusiasts so they look at some of the shortcomings in other cases they designed a case labs designed a pulley modular case all the panels come off you can do any top configuration you want so that represents manufacturers having their pulse on the community and we're actually driving innovation instead of the other way around thank you yeah he notice just to add like you know originally there were windows on the sides and things like that so you know all the little things we've done through the years they see you know that the marketing reps will come to part of the larger land parties and things like that and you know they go through and they see what everybody's doing and and the more they see of a certain thing that kind of clue in and hey we should maybe do that because if that's what's popular that's what we can sell and so they do that so back to your base question remember i showed you get in case you want to get your trip there first off I'd like to say thanks to rich your video with HuskyStarcraft really introduced okay smiley I just want to say thank you thank you my question is how do you feel that 3d printing technology is going to affect case money yeah I'm 3d printing technology jocks are extremely exciting up before to do any type of customization like you have to use a CNC mill or router or pleasure so this actually allows us to at a low price point to customizations so like no we use google sketchup and stuff if you can draw something Google Sketchup you can explore it and you can 3d print so anybody can do it so this really huge allows us to be rapid prototyping as well so when we're working with companies we can come up with a design and we could have another company actually fabricated that's something that's more complex or it's a higher level of a structural integrity but is as phonetic godsend I'm using it for to go with the vice products to do some custom wire management features and actually i will be using it for a project i can't say too much about but it's starcraft and letting all the other thing about the 3d printing is it like everything else the technology gets better and better we use it so the DPI I don't like of stuff is just going up and up so the products are you know that you can put out or getting smoother and really refined so so it's just the beginning i think in now I thought I saw like what's a target or something is selling 3d printers the Microsoft Word everything for pretty cheap so it is until stores actually have to make robots Allen that's great so yeah it's just so we make our own dish we're going I've been using a 3d printers as well as we passed up there I've done some aluminum casting for some of the parts that I've been doing and a 3d printer is awesome for making week's lost phone and lost plastic pours you can basically already print the string out on the top so that when you pour the molten aluminum band into it it actually just burns everything right out and you have a custom aluminum heart that you just print it out of plastic yes and I think the point where i'll actually be happy is when I can produce something like what Barker does by hand and the dream printer is this venom if you haven't seen his work this band is I mean I'm not worthy that is master you know with a hand carving and they see the tron or is about sore black Cavill so if we can finally get to that point to where it someone like me who doesn't have the skills that Barker does if I can do what he does with just my vision and being able to draw it up then I think that will make pushed a smoggy to that much level of a higher level and you know then he'll have to come up with something even crazy I step it up can I do a few rapid-fire resource and method questions yeah i just might touch each of you i had i want to strip a case that's been painted and i'd like to do a sort of two new green I want to know i know that's a layer paint job to my prime is there tape into the recognition they absolutely hid them you know there was no way in five minutes I could cover everything that they're possibly what so first of all it's helpful to know what the first layer is I guess you could say so typically cases come powder-coated these days so you have to realize that powder coating it's actually a plastic absolutely go off of a like anodized aluminum okay so anodizing is a whole other process where you can remove the anodizing but it's very difficult it's basically it's been chemically transformed into aluminum oxide is what the I anodizing is so it's extremely tough and I did see a DIY YouTube video of somebody showing how to do it in their own home and I tried it and didn't have that great results but it's basically one of those were if you took it to a shop that does that kind of stuff they could probably remove it for a faster than anything and the other the other option would be to sanded down which again because it's been transformed into what's essentially aluminum oxide that's the same as my sandpaper is so you're kind of going to go through a lot sandpaper yeah getting it back down at metal is you know the first step and then you always want to at least use a primer I personally use a sealer it's an epoxy sealer because plastic and metal so like the case itself the shell is metal the panel's top in front or whatever are going to be plastic they actually take pain differently so it's like if you ever know some new cars they have the postorder skins are plastic and we ourself as metal well if you look at a metallic painted guard you can see in the light the color don't look different and that's because what is know what is plastic so even though they've been primed and everything the same way it's just it's just going to react so but if you use a sealer or an epoxy sealer if you can get around that so that would be the most important thing is if you can find an epoxy sealer or just a couple good layers about good primer so and they start going there so that's actually the foot so will answer the rest your questions afterwards but it just wouldn't get a couple other people because we're about five minutes here before would start to happen people get their presence gentlemen in the learning community there's a bit of a smaller niche who attempts to completely passive cooling systems and it smoking for very creative solutions such as mounting ionic raises in a part of the case while running every ionized air / electrical components is not always the greatest idea I just wondered what you guys saw as a future for passive cooling products that are going to be available okay that's a good question really is up yes so I pretty much i'll try to see no stay at the higher cutting edge so like most my bills have at least a 3g mediums so i have a higher TDP that i need to deal with if there's a lot of things that you could do but let's first passenger probably worried about not noise and with the higher quality fans that we have now lucky even if your queen of blades with as many fans as i have in there that's you know extremely extremely quiet yeah you know I think you know instead really using passive cooling you could use we know all in that forms of a liquid cooling where you'd have a remote radiator so you can actually place it on waivers or system you know you just put disconnects absolute echnology is changing like everything else to them and you look at some of the power supplies now there's no fan you know it's just so there's always there's always something in the works that you know we don't hear never about right away and you know they're there in testing and things like that so you know even if we did know we problem yeah it's the one good the one good thing about what's water cooling & air cooling is the intel and nvidia in particular have general job there RND and so the tbp on their newer components while their higher power keeps dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping so if you look at like the gtx 480 was a hot cup and we could cook an egg on it but the 680 and 78 is actually running a lot cooler the same thing we didn't tell the newer processors in a Moore's law sillim effect with the increase in transistors and the shortage of the die size but you look at the TDP it just keeps going down and down and down and down so that means that we don't have to put as much emphasis on you know removing the heat and so you could actually probably run in the computer kc a nice fat school system and it would actually celebrate us and as you said yourself to niche market and you gotta remember water cooling and everything that's press thus far has been a niche market at one point in time they were carbon you know radiators out of cars and stuff to get it going and I've seen a lot of passes cool systems when when that when or if that will ever hit retail depends on the amount of people that are initially interesting to it alright that type of one more question sorry yes still pretty come up at catalyst afterwards uses and I think we also have a business card so don't really know talk to every type your question there's a reviled piece of their starcraft you guys are running to you copyright or trademark in for me she's not your babe yes yeah so I can't talk about too much about things that are in progress but I just finally got some art group for event coming up and I can't say it has been an absolute nightmare for some company is a really really really protective other intellectual property the main thing is that you knew it you're going to be selling it for profit I think you guys can attest to this it can kind of be a fine line so it's sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission or stolen right i know it i usually do it you know I then I just don't say anything and then say oh I don't know if you're making one off the case it may just make it one of scene then you know typically they're not going to bother you about it but if you start making 10 or 20 or 30 trong cases and you know it Disney probably not come after you well I think yeah and I think where you run into issues is there's a difference of are you just building your own case and doing some customizations and you know putting us a name of something on there or are you hired by one of those larger manufacturers to build something for them that they may promote and do things in Game something from it then you know if you run into a copyright problems will become a most likely I think that's the biggest thing right there but you're just doing pacing yourself you'll be fine but somebody's marketing it or making money for profiting off of it then you're going to run into problems I think our biggest problem isn't necessarily copyrighted sin das i recently worked on a project where i had 34 in das or different offer one thing that I was working on still really can't talk about well I don't know this but it's always fun to do those projects and you just mentioned ndac violated you have a solenoid that it's like the a bike buzzes oral as you go talk okay all right thanks for joining us and if you can get all our panels here