Gadgetory

much like our video on what video card manufacturers think of mining cryptocurrency mining we're back now to talk about what some of the manufacturers we've spoken with think of the 1070 TI these are obviously anonymized answers and opinions from various people in the industry keeping it anonymous is one requirement for obvious reasons but - it allows people to speak their mind a bit more freely after these thoughts and opinions we'll go through some more of my own following the 1070 TI review our review has really just focused on getting the numbers out there and getting through that phase and now we can talk a bit more expanding on the conclusion of the review and talking about the cards existence as a whole before that this video is brought to you by thermal Grizzly makers of the conductor not liquid metal that we recently used to drop 20 degrees off of our coffee lake temperatures thermal grizzly also makes traditional thermal compounds we use on top of the IHS like cryo not and hydro not pastes learn more at the link below let's start with the facts and what we know from the ABI partners what they've told us so this one is pretty widespread and recognized at this point we've been talking about it for a few weeks now but just to really confirm for everyone there are no pre overclocked 1070 t is under Nvidia's dictation so this is a rule that was put in place on the board partners we've spoken with them they you could look at their product listings and confirm it yourself they can't make a pre overclocked model they all ship at reference clocks there's a way to cheat this rule and get around it and that is to basically ship the card with an option to download and install software separate from the driver and then use that software to apply a pre-configured overclocked state it would be functionally equivalent to a pre overclocked just you have to download and install more bloatware this is definitely a sub optimal way of doing it and the problem is the people who generally need a pre overclocked done for them rather than manually are probably the same people who won't know that there is software won't download it or whatever but that's one way to get around the rule of no pre overclocks they're able to ship software to do it another thing here so speaking with the board partners off the record we were generally given the impression that the the board partners definitely think that the 1070 TI sales will be impacted by the lack of pre overclocks and this is because there is less differentiation between cards the differentiation in clocks obviously is not there so now you're left with coolers and a lot of the market not probably not ninety percent of you but you have to remember that outside of our bubble of enthusiasts space there's a much wider audience and a lot of that market isn't gonna look for things like thermals and noise they will go to Newegg they're gonna click compare on five different products and then look at the base and boost clocks and whatever other numbers are there whether or not they understand them and determine okay this one's got a higher number and it's this price and so relative to the others it's probably better for me and that's completely a fine way to buy things that's how everyone pretty much starts but that plays into this because the 1070 TI all those numbers are gonna be the same so you're left with cooler and noise differences which very few people test and even fewer people care about so that's from the board partner perspective speaking with them the lack of differentiation is kind of a big deal and will probably impact on seventy TI sales another note from board partners and sort of speaking with everyone generally there was frustration over the pre overclocked lockdown by nvidia but also generally the follow up to that was what are you gonna do you have no option so you play you know you have to do what Nvidia says if you're gonna sell their product and that's really the start in the end of it the more expensive cooler designs now speaking with the board partners have less apparent value than they would otherwise and they raise the of the final product in terms of the Bill of Materials without creating an obvious to consumer increase in performance so most people again who don't think about thermals and noise will see the extra $20 $30 whatever it is on top of MSRP and it might not register as an actual advantage because if that cooler isn't being leveraged to cool a pre overclock better than something like a reference card could do when you look at noise normalized thermal performance then the benefit isn't realized not until the user either manually applies an overclock or purchase or down purchase as a card with downloadable software to do it for them and again the audience ultimately even though we do cater to it the audience that cares about things like manual overclocking is quite small so that's definitely a big deal this one is really not a surprise to anyone so everyone we spoke with pretty much agreed that this move of the 1070 Ti is more to hamstring the Vega 56 sales than anything else it's something that we talked about in our review we talked about it before the review and came out I think yeah it's not a surprise because it's not a surprise that Nvidia would compete with their competitor so it's not a surprise then that and video would try to do something in response to Vega 56 I don't think anyone's questioning that what's kind of weird is just the the lock downs on the pre overclock this is me speaking at this point and the it's it's really just the ham straining the partner is more than anything and if you think about it of course it's to create product segmentations pretty normal and that's not necessarily a good thing but it's pretty normal it's just that this type of product segmentation is new even for nvidia who already have pretty limited overclocking utilities available to them comparatively so it's a response to Vega 56 but also Nvidia is try not to fight their 1080 sales and speaking again with the vendors going back to what they were saying so we asked we asked everyone we spoke with do you think the 1070 TI or the 1080 will remain more popular and because you look at them going back to our review the 1070 TI when overclocked particularly does encroach on 1080 territory to the point where with the exception of shader intensive games like sniper it really doesn't make a ton of sense to by 1080 if you're willing to overclock a 1070 ti even an overclocked 1080 they're really not that different there couple single digit percentage points so we asked do you think the 1070 Ti will outsell you or 1080 and most of them said that the well there's a couple different answers here actually these we have four different sources all with slightly different answers so I'll just go through them sort of anonymized one was the 1080 will still have its brand presence and recognition because the the number 80 in end video series cards does carry a fair bit of weight so from that perspective of a consumer looking from the outside of the enthusiast bubble in at product options 1080 still sounds like the better option and I guess technically it is because there's no pre overclocked n7 easy eyes and technically in a lot of ways it is superior and so far as its objective performance it's just a question of is it superior in terms of price to performance and things like that when you account for overclocking but I see yes one source did say the 1080 still carries enough sort of weight with its name that they didn't think the sales would be too ably impacted another thought that the gtx 1070 would be them actually two of them thought that the gtx 1070 would be the most affected product in the stack where it's it'll move lower volume specifically because the 1070 TI just ignoring Vega from the equation the 1070 TI was thought of as stealing 1070 sales more than anything else and then we also had the answer that it's going to depend on price where 1070 TI cards that are closer to 500 dollar marks and this is from a board partner although it's kind of obvious closer to 500 dollars not a lot of point to buy them you might as by 1080 and I think everyone recognizes hat board partners recognize that when asked what review samples we want from all the different manufacturers pretty much everyone agrees that things closer to 500 dollars are not going to get as good of a review in terms of price of performance because why would they if you can spend 5 10 or 5 20 and get a 1080 which is again technically superior then you should just buy that but the theta is the 1070 Ti does have a bit of an argument for it when it's less significantly less like $50 $70 less than a 1080 that's when it comes into play so everyone's in agreement that the $500 cards are going to be a much harder sell I think that goes through most of the board partner thoughts I have some of my own I've two or three more notes here that are quick generally sensing frustration with the board partners over the pre overclocked lockdown probably not surprising that it does sort of eat into what the board partners offer as a service for consumers and then everyone also basically agreed there's nothing they can really do about it you have to play by Nvidia's rulebook because it's their GPU so the best they can do is play tricks with software game modes one click buttons things like that oh one other note one of the partners we spoke with the this didn't affect everyone but specifically one partner we spoke with did have to rename a product before coming to market with it pretty late in the cycle allegedly and the product rename was I think because they might have had the letters OC and the product name or some other synonym for overclocked and that clearly doesn't affect everyone because you can look at the product stack and people still have pretty much the same names they've always had but a couple companies apparently did have to consider renaming things because they weren't allowed to be over lock it it makes sense why would you tack the letters OC onto it if it's not actually overclocked so my thoughts on this opinions on the whole of the market this goes beyond the 1070 TI this year we had AMD Vega come out and it's got a lock to be BIOS you can flash Vega 64 signed BIOS on 256 and you can't flash a fee on to it we tried that didn't quite well can't flash a fee on to it at least with any changes I haven't tried it since then but once you start changing BIOS at all even the name of the BIOS it doesn't work you can't flash custom BIOS on to there so I am the Institute of that change and it was a big change and in the overclocking community it's not been well-received you have people like builds ahead who I remember and I worked with him on it he was just genuinely genuinely seemed I use the phrase let down because I don't want to speak for him but it did seem like in the xoc community in general is like okay now we have to figure out an alternative and even on our end we're not EXO Sears or anything but on our end it comes down to how do we get around these limitations and it's gonna be things like power play tables and stuff like that which work but not as not as a good of an option as a custom v bios so Andy had that change where they lock down parts of overclocking for a reason that seemed like it wasn't really an actual reason to do it it was apparently for us a secure boot thing but that's not actually a requirement from what we understand now as for Nvidia they're doing this their own way they haven't instituted any overclocking restrictions on users for the 1070 TI it works the same as it always has there's nothing special here there are OC limitations on the board partner so that's a bit different new and it's obviously for segmentation and to try and split the stack up so that the 1080 doesn't just completely die the because a concerning point I would like people to pay attention to is that I'm a little worried that going forward with new GPU architectures and things we may see similar practices with overclocking and overclocking is a lot fun it can get you some more performance sometimes a whole lot more performance it doesn't need to be practical and it generally isn't once you start going crazier with it but that's not really the point either the point is you've got the option and it's fun to do and a lot of it's you buying these expensive video cards probably to have fun whether that's playing a game or from the enthusiasts aspect of building a computer and then tuning it and doing cool things and learning that's kind of the whole point so I am a little concerned about the trend from both and the end Nvidia and hopefully we don't see a continued block down on overclocking I would just ask that everyone kind of keep your eyes open and let us know if you see any further actions like this but in the very least of 1070 TI is user overclockable and we got it quite far actually we made it easily outperform at 1080 and basically matches an overclocked 1080 depending on Silicon lottery but yeah I don't know it's a very Apple like play from both of them it's an apple like played log beat BIOS this is old news now we've talked about it already it's definitely an Apple hike play to put restrictions on manufacturers to the point where it's kind of like what's your endgame here Nvidia leh is it gonna be focusing more on founders edition cards with different cooler designs in the future cuz this if they're all gonna be the same reference and base and boost clocks the only reason not to buy this is the cooler so at some point you would start wondering is Nvidia going to try and compete with its partners more directly but that's all just really speculation at this point and more stuff to keep an eye on than anything else but yeah that's that's front half thoughts from the manufacturers about 10 70 TI back half just an extension of our review as far as performance just kind of revisit this very briefly if you want the performance metrics check the review but very briefly the 1070 Ti is in a position once again where it handily outperforms the 10 7 generally outperforms Vega 56 depends on the title and can be made to outperform at 1080 or perform equally with an overclocked 1080 all of this in mind depending on the price it might be a better bhai then the 1080 at this point so again we go back to the point I was making in the review of is it the 1080 that doesn't make sense or the 1070 ti that doesn't make sense one of them loses market share here it's just a question of which one is it and as close to $450 as possible the 1070 TI seems like it's potentially a good product to work with if you're gonna overclock it the minute you start increasing the price 10 20 $30 at that point especially $30 it is sort of looking like you should just buy 1080 now the big question here that we didn't discuss in the review is well you know it sounds like there's not a lot of room between the prices we talked about that but why couldn't Nvidia just drop the price of the 1080 down to functionally 1070 TI prices even four hundred seventy dollars or something like that and technically speaking the 1080 has been available for around that price in the past it was before the mining craze that ruined all GPU prices but it was available around that price so that's I think that's why the 1070 TI feels a little bit it seems like it's gotten a pretty pretty negative reaction from the community in general you look at all the comments and they're mostly like why does this card need to exist and it's fair point because the 1080 could have been dropped in price and that would be crazy competitive but I think looking at it sort of from Nvidia's perspective where your goal is to compete with AMD on V 56 and beat them which the 1080 could do in terms of performance but maybe not as much price that they could try I think from their perspective it's less about let's get a card into this price bakit to compete with vega 56 and more about let's get a card that gets visibility and we talked about this in the review and change the discussion so that when people are talking about what card do I buy between 350 and 450 dollars or $500 let's say make it a big range it changes the discussion so that now instead of Vega 56 versus 1070 its 1070 TI versus 1080 or 1070 TI versus 1070 and Vega 56 is in there a little bit but the fact that it's got three three while two long-standing heavily reviewed products and then one brand new one that just breached the product cycle and is making a lot of rounds on everywhere I think having those 3 cards flanking Vega 56 takes away some of the spotlight from it and that's further expanded by the lack of Vega 56 partner cards even 64 but we're just looking at 56 today the lack of partner cards and general limited supply although prices have come down at least temporarily to around MSRP lack of those the supply and partner card doesn't really help it's it's got no backup the reference card is just out there so low again it's now a huge wave of 1070 TI is that obviously get coverage and they should but huge wave of that and then 10 80s are now being discussed once again for the first time in like six months so I think it again I think it was a strategic play I've just had more time to think about it now and talk to manufacturers so it was worth revisiting once again as an addendum to the review but yeah you can watch the review if you want to know which card to buy we have the numbers there for you I don't really make a firm statement on a global scale of what I think you should buy but I have a few statements in the review of when Cartier makes more sense than card be in certain conditions so hopefully that helps you as for Vega whether or not those prices stay and I don't suspect that they will they are low right now so if you can find me if you've wanted Vega 56 for a long time now you better buy it probably soon because I think after this this wave of 1070 TI cards starts losing coverage and just sort of falling back on the cycle I think Vega 56 will at least go back up a little bit in price because there are some there's some incentive there for it to be cheaper right now but either way it's still a reference card the reference card from both Nvidia and AMD they both suck and we've been clear on that for years now so if you want to buy it be aware of that and consider like a Morpheus or a hybrid mod we have a guide where we did a hybrid mod do something like that with it and you'll be in pretty good shape but as for the 1070 1070 TI and 1080 we've got plenty of coverage on those check the review that's all for this one you can subscribe for more and we're go to patreon.com/scishow sells out directly gamers access net for the written review which does have the the first half the written review has some thoughts that weren't fully in the video a good bit of it was but not all of it and then the conclusion has some expansion on that so do you want more thoughts on this still check the review out gamers nexus dotnet again subscribe for more I'll see you all next time