Gadgetory

video cards are the most exhausting component to test and it's not because of the work that goes into it it's because of all of the insanity that follows with comments and things on the internet and it's not just our benchmarks this is normal discourse when talking out and en nvidia and i think it's time to at least put some ideas out there with regard to how humans can better communicate with one another so it means for this to be patronizing but seriously our platform is not something that i want to be used to bash people and abuse them over which video card for playing video games they would prefer to buy that's insane and i mean just you look at the language used things like of well inflammatory things that i won't repeat two things that are just kind of stupid like the word Nvidia or AMD fanboy things like that and it's said with such hatred that it blows my mind so this video is more of a kind of almost off-topic semi rant semi public service announcement I guess that I just needed to put out there because I it drives me crazy to see how people interact with one another and this isn't just talking about how commenters interact with the producers of the content that's that's fine I mean obviously we've got our limits too I don't necessarily like reading some of the hateful comments but I put myself in that position so I'm not going to rant about it what I will rant about is how people interact with one another in our comments from the comments of other videos Jay recently kind of put out a video talking about this to some extent and I agree with him on a few points there but the idea that buying a video card suddenly puts you into this exclusive club and that you then have to defend that purchase vehemently by spewing vitriol at everyone who bought something else doesn't make any sense and it's not normal and it's not healthy you know ultimately why even defend to companies that they're both corporations and Intel if you want to throw them and but they're really kind of different topic they just want your money and that's not necessarily an evil thing they both want the same thing AMD Nvidia both want you to buy their product defending them just seems silly I just look at this like we have comments I can just search we have a tool in YouTube this is one thing that YouTube does that's semi useful there's a tool where you can search all comments for all videos that we've produced the word Nvidia for example there's this person saying why do people think Andy's next card will outperform a 1080 it will probably fail to match 1070 to be honest okay I don't know that I necessarily necessarily agree with the premise we'll see how it performs that's not the point of this video we're not talking about Vega but it's a reasonable thing to say it's not really that that aggressive or hateful you look at the comments though the first one typical nvidia has nothing to do this video keep giving your corporate overlords and video all your hard-earned dollars so they can f you over by not giving a about your GP two years later i don't know why that's my that's my designation for what's acceptable to say but reply and video that's funny considering i have two RX four 80s and it goes on and that's what i'm talking about it's just this isn't how you talk to people it's not okay for just this one point talking out corporate overlords giving them all their money or the one we hear all the time which is chill or whatever i the just because you don't necessarily agree with the content doesn't mean or even agree with the other users commenting on the content doesn't mean that that user was paid off and is being paid to comment on youtube videos a specific thing for just just to kind of point this out we spend a lot of time talking about architecture and videos and i can talk about clock gating and heuristic prefetch service circuits and all of these different routines in the video car the memory subsystem the compression algorithms that are used to make things faster we can talk about the SM layout and how there's precision switching capability is on a particular GPU and why that might be useful for one application or another and why you would switch to something like FP 16 for deep learning at FP 32 for gaming whatever FP 64 all that stuff we can talk about architecture all day talk about it for sometimes 10 minutes and some of these major GPU reviews but it doesn't matter people don't really they jump either to the benchmarks or they go to the comments and this is the bigger problem maybe this is a different video but all of that's ignored and it's just immediately this number doesn't match what I thought it should be based on nothing or very limited experience and therefore it is wrong or it is paid for or it is somehow attacking me personally and my decision to buy the other product and this isn't just about Nvidia but it's about Nvidia and AMD happens on both sides and video is just the one I pulled up here because the phrase Nvidia is kind of so stupid and specific that it's really easy to search for and the thing that's really vexing to me is that this is something we don't see for other components it's almost entirely AMD and NVIDIA and there's a bit of it when talking about CPUs but it does seem kind of less extreme but on GPUs this is way over the top I could talk all day about this NZXT case I could talk crap about the rubber puck people well now so well that people in the comments would normally not go and then cry about what has been said about the puck and say that I'm a corsair fanboy or something or a fan tax fanboy or a shill for whomever it doesn't happen with those components so why does it happen with GPUs that's what I've been thinking about lately I'm not sure I have an answer for that I think some of it is there's only two real GPU vendors and sure Intel whatever they have there IGP we all know that doesn't count it's it's a fine effort by Intel it does its tasks but that's not really what this is about so why why am the nvidia well I guess there's only two vendors and so much marketing behind each of them and these got their and the Red Team Plus which I guess is kind of like a fan club type of thing the equivalent of a fan club for a band and Vidya has plenty of their own marketing and I think people just get a little too into it and I don't know how much of it is your as a consumer you've maybe spent $600 on a video card so you don't want to feel bad about that money spent you don't want to feel like you've spent it in the wrong place maybe that's some of it but even that I don't know I mean for the most part the the GPU is underlying the card even if there might be better value from one vendor and maybe you have some buyer's remorse that you spent $100 more than was necessary or whatever even though there might be better value somewhere else that doesn't mean that the one you bought is bad enough to feel assaulted and if if that is the case it's probably better to direct that in the form of a return or an RMA with the company that you think has so screwed you and unfortunately normally this is not the one that was bought it's the other one it's somehow the other company is is hurting me or the buyers of the other company's products are attacking me and I purchases this obviously isn't everyone we have a pretty generally great community it's smaller I think which certainly helps a lot I've noticed that when videos blow up more they do get a lot more comments that I would like to stay elsewhere on other channels not ours we've worked pretty hard to build ours up into a more mature community that's more data driven so when the videos blow up a bit yeah they get some comments that are that are kind of dumb but it's obviously not everyone it's not the regulars it's just something that's all over the internet and this isn't just GN and our channel and our website you go anywhere on reddit and the gaming PC gaming PC master-race build a PC any of those sub reddits there's so much of this and it's it's bad I think if you're making an argument to buy one card versus another than back get up with something and unfortunately when people try to do that it's generally very misguided so for example the one we see a lot is how come when I test this card using who the hell knows what tools and who knows what methodology it performs better or worse than your results well that's probably why there's a few reasons right there's first of all not all cards perform equally so we test a reference card or an AIB partner card those could have a big difference or they could not it depends on the game and then methodology I think a lot of people don't even realize if you jump into GTA 5 and you play the game and let's say near out in a field near a bunch of grass I know from testing firsthand hundreds of hours in this game testing it I know that if you're in that turret terrain you will have a lower frame rate than what we see why is that well it's because you're near a bunch of grass and if you have grass on ultra it's going to hammer the card in a way that our testing doesn't necessarily do it we have a more mixed layout for for benchmarking and that's not to say one is wrong or right but it's to say that they need to be the same so this idea that all benchmarks are equal is misguided and if if you're going to try and validate claims at least read the test methodology sections and understand what's going on because there's stuff in here that I think people don't even realize could be different right it's really basic stuff for us having done it for eight going on nine years now I've been doing this in 2008 I have a pretty good methodology at this point I and there's a lot of stuff you can overlook and I've done it and I've had to retest for probably dozens of hours in the past because of something that was overlooked it's really easy to overlook something so for example a ist is that on or off it could be behaving differently between your test passes see states are they on or off that's just BIOS level stuff and then you have Windows stuff with all the different power saving features with software that could be running the background doing one thing or another that's still the easy stuff then you get into the benchmarking tools like fraps or present Mon or Oh cat or dxtory or whatever not an FPS fps does not equal fps it's not a universal metric it's not like meters or feet or whatever where we have a defined thing FPS could be read in few different ways and I've talked about this before but you have things like just on present versus display do the people talking and sort of bickering with one another even understand what those things mean or that they exist and we've explained them in the past and it's okay to not know that that's something to know about and that your particular software solution may be different than someone else's whomever you're arguing with on reddit or wherever it is put that as an example because that's where people argue so there's a lot to take into account and this is sort of just a tangent off of the rest of it to say that if trying to make an argument using numbers understand those numbers and where they came from if you this is where a lot of the time on videos from other content creators even are videos of course or articles or PC perspectives articles tech reports articles and non text articles everywhere I always see comments that are like hey why are your results different from this other website it doesn't mean that one's wrong necessarily it just means that and someone could be wrong certainly but it normally it means that the testing was different so they could have used a different variable when they were measuring their frames or frame times they could have used different software or they could have just tested in a different part of the game because that really impacts things and then there's the whole other question of cards and which ones you use you we can post a chart with reference cards and with aftermarket cards and if I posted all of them it would be so long it wouldn't fit in the video and we do post normally some slightly more in-depth ones on the site but there's a lot of video cards and it's not reasonable to test all of them so what do we do well sometimes we want to put reference in there for a point of reference and sometimes we want to put the board partner cards in there but it's not possible to make everyone happy obviously because no matter what we do if I pull one card out of the chart to make space because you can only reasonably fit so many on this screen someone's going to complain that why didn't you test this card there's a there's a conspiracy and you're trying to paint the vendor in a bad light or something like that that's not no one's out to get you that's not how this works so it's era there's just a lot of really poorly thought-out things that are specific to AMD and NVIDIA and I've been trying to understand it for a long time I don't I don't I don't know why it's like that but I mean you just like you can look through the comments and it's just stupid let's take that and video you know at all of this all these different claims let's see let's find another one like this so this not to call out this user but this is what I was just talking about how are you getting lower FPS than my four seventy at 1080p with a 480 in Doom what well i we probably tested a different way most likely or had different settings there's a lot of settings and we define those as best we can but it's not just stuff that I mean this whole thread you know interact with the user I think we kind of kind of resolved in straightaway but that didn't to stop the whole I don't just all the slime from coming out and arguing with each other over something so so petty here's an example of a thread that wasn't even related to us it was just a good comment that makes sense in my opinion average framerate doesn't matter if a game stutters a lot I I would agree with that that's a good way to start so we're we're off to a good start here but how quickly does it turn for the worst it devolves into where we've got Andy's current GNC sick architecture has high latency it has to do with how it uses a sing to switch tasks that affects point one percent lows a lot I don't really I don't really know where that information came from but you know it starts there with maybe someone who kind of thinks they know what they're talking about fine whatever it wasn't it wasn't rude it was just misinformed or you might have some merit to it but I don't know that I don't know that that's really enough depth to make any conclusions like we're being made and it just evolves into wait for it you're still at your Nvidia shield crap ice ice env tards chills are riled up Lowell Lowell no one believes your crap anymore what is the point of this more posting by Nvidia shell and I'm just I don't know I I don't just because someone is either it does matter if they're right or wrong just because they aren't necessarily agreeing with what someone else is saying doesn't mean that they're paid for and that's not even the worst of it I mean just that sort of hatred and stupidity that spawns out of people owning one GPU or another is insane so I don't really know I don't have a I don't have a whole huge point to this other than stop which is obviously not fit to it me so uh why do we make the video I guess just because I've been looking at these comments for eight years and I'm really curious about why is this with nvidia and AMD specifically and if you're a regular viewer just please don't get sucked into that just see a comment like that ignore it Eddie that's it's the sad thing with YouTube and with Reddit we're being contrary and means that it is immediately at the top doesn't matter if it's liked or not I guess you could sort reddit depending based on on up but YouTube though I don't know who the hell knows what their algorithm ties but it changes if you're logged in or not so I don't know but uh just just disagree and get something to the top and it's not necessarily something that makes sense all the time most the time it's not even it may have started out as a good point but I it just turns into such trash so I don't know if you're part of our normal viewership community readers I already generally trust that you're not doing this type of thing but we can't stop it obviously it's just it's it's very frustrating to see that this is the behavior with GPUs one of the most complex parts and a PC and the people who bicker like this don't even understand the first part of it because if you did or if they did there'd be a much different discussion hopefully more measured and thought-out and with actual things to talk about not using words like chill idiot all kinds of things that I don't want to say right now it's it's the wrong approach so ah I guess that's it I don't know if you want to see more videos that are not like this you can subscribe to our channel for benchmarks and scroll down to the comment sections and then you can get more things like this but it's not too bad on our channel to be honest gamers access not a net for more information for written articles full depth all the testing methodology we have thousands of words on the games that are on the test bench feel free to to educate yourself on on the different graphics settings on how the architecture interacts with it things like that hopefully without feeling like somehow one GPU vendor or another is out to get you or us or commentaries or whatever but yeah thanks for watching I'll see you all next time you you