Gadgetory

all right welcome back to harbor own box this is part two about November Q&A part 1 was on the channel yesterday as always we have a ton more questions to cover this we'll be covering them in this video so I guess let's get straight into them as a great question I deliberately put in here for Steve cuz he loves talking about this you always get me in trouble yeah oh so good if you need a budget work station is the FX 8350 still relevant all the top boards and ddr3 a chip what's your pin on FX T I love the way I'm often called an AMD fanboy I love it because the people that say that must have been snoozing through the entire FX generation because I was the biggest Intel fanboy then apparently but for those of you that are maybe new to the channel or familiar with my opinion on the FX series I really really disliked a Murray's FX series a loathe that would be a good word I recommend pretty much anything but I don't really want to argue with people in the comments because I know I trigger a good many people when I say this but I feel like the FX series was never worth it pretty much any price point it was actually a rare bad product in my opinion there's people out there that disagree with me and that's perfectly fine but that's my opinion on it and it has been since I first reviewed it I was really worried about rise and being the same but thankfully it wasn't risin is brilliant but yeah if you need a budget workstation there's just so many better alternatives I'm sort of pushing people away from directing people away from buying their Xeon stuff I don't think the older Xeon stuff on the LGA 1366 sockets worth it anymore either because newer new parts are since rising came out you can buy a second-hand risin 5 you know 1600 or 1800 X processor for next to nothing you can get be 350 motherboards or X 370 boards really cheap I've saw an X 4 so when you bought it sell for $40 us on ebay not that long ago so you pick up one of them you can get a good rise in processor for $100 and yeah I mean you can get the FX stuff cheaper someone probably just about give you system but whether you want to run it's another question but it's the same thing with their Xeon stuff if you can get a Z on you know memory motherboard and processor for like 50 bucks if you get lucky then sure but you can't beat that in terms of value I still you couldn't pay me to use an FX system that's just me I really just like them just my personal opinion from lots of testing don't like them so I'd be getting a second hand rise and rege because they're very cheap now and that's yeah I'd rather pay two three times more for that I think you'd be getting more value for money yep sounds fun don't ever ask me at the FX series again I'm done with it okay this next question is from YouTube now you done asked me about FX processors and then you go to Apple products alright Steve's done he's the iPad pro really as powerful as a laptop he's really gone by the way he's just left so this is an interesting question for a number of reasons because there's always a lot of discussion with iPads you know people trying to compare them to laptops people talking about ARM processors and sort of doing those benchmarks like Geekbench and comparing you know how fast is the iPad and Geekbench to an Intel laptop and I'm not a big fan of comparing those two things for a number of reasons firstly because they both want completely different apps and completely different operating systems so it's really hard to get like a real-world workload that's running on an iPad pro and you can just run the exact same thing on an Intel processor ARM processors also have a lot of acceleration built into them so you're not necessarily using the CPU cores for things like basic video encoding or decoding you have got a whole bunch of stuff that's accelerated as well and on top of that their apps are just built in a completely different way to be much more optimized for the resources that are in an ARM chip so there's a lot more GPU acceleration there's a lot more acceleration on those things I was just talking about so yeah I just don't think the comparisons that we've got at the moment really are telling us all that much about that comparison we really need to wait to Apple to put their arm chip in an actual laptop running the same code the exact same applications doing the same thing to see what the difference is going to be like I would think that you know iPad pro probably struggle with some of the rendering tasks that you can do on a laptop simply because it's you know power of clock speed limits they're just fundamental limitations so yeah I still think Intel would probably come out more powerful if you compare you know apples to apples but really at the moment just comparing apples to oranges so yeah too hard to say you can come back now Steve we're done yeah I promise I don't think so I think that's it I am back next question how does AMD bed not be effects related I compete with Intel with the same core counts yet much lower clock speeds seems like Intel should it be far and away better well they kind of are did I say that out loud I meant No yeah and all seriousness Intel does have a performance advantage because of the clock speed advantage the way AMD competes is by making their CPUs well better value more affordable cheaper that's pretty much that one yeah so for example if the rise in 720 700 X and 87 okay forget about the 99 okay if the 2700 X and 87 okay with the exact same price or the 87 okay was cheaper then for the most part you'd get that I mean it's a bit of an unfair comparison because the 2700 X is better in productivity because it does have two extra cores so I suppose a better one would be the the 2700 X and the 1900 K same core count same thread count if they were even remotely the same price you would buy Intel sorry AMD fans that's just yeah it's the trustor it's faster and assuming the platform costs of the same so Intel comes there sorry AMD comes out well ahead in that comparison in terms of value and I would personally buy the 2700 X every time I wouldn't even entertain the 1900 K as a consumer because you're paying at least $500 u.s. you can get I'd get a seven 2700 what are they now at 250 pretty cheap yeah you're getting cooler as well whereas you know you have to spend at least $30 for a cool afternoon and okay and then you're not running that anywhere near full performance on a $30 cool you're pretty much running at the 95 watt TDP spec and their motherboards you can get a hundred and ten dollar B 450 tomahawk fantastic board that'll take the 2700 no dramas whereas you probably want to spend about $67 more on a good Zed 390 board um see it's just comes down on value yeah that's pretty much it okay next question and this one looks to be RTX related I'm actually surprised given your video they haven't all been in some way ray-tracing related anyway well gets the question seeing how the r-tx cards struggle to use all the GPU and running DX are definitely the case how do you think say a tu 106 GPU so for those of you not familiar that's the RT X 2070 so the 2070 but with the same amount of RT causes the 2828 e TI I would then have been a more balanced offering so I think what he's trying to say here is with the 27 t have made more sense with the same amount of RT cause again the highest impact yes so more RT cos essentially in the 27 t which is 720 70 more expensive yeah I mean that's the thing first of all adding those extra cause in increases the die size so they'll cost more to manufacture and then it'll mean it'll cost more but let's just say that there's a mythical 27 t that had the same articles at the same price yeah it would make more sense and would make that card make more says fun ray-tracing because you'd actually be less bottlenecks by its complete lack of RT cause like you've currently got the shader cores in that so if you were just sitting around doing not much in that game because that's just so choked up by trying to do ray tracing once yes I suppose that's essentially the question so you would be getting the same performance as what I what the question is is the RT cause bottlenecking the CUDA cores so much yeah that you actually wouldn't see a difference in performance and I so yeah that's probably the case I would say that almost certainly the 27 t would perform like a 20 atti if the RT core count was the same because not only do we see lower power consumption running the cards in with ray-tracing it also gets bottlenecks much much more severely the higher the resolution goes and that tends to indicate that you know it's not gonna be the shaded causes doing it simply because it's trying to push out more rays into the scene and the more rays that you're pushing out the lower the performance that you get is so because we're a twenty eighty I can run at like 20 FPS at best at 4k with the ray-tracing in battlefield five so yeah I would say that would have been a much better balance it wouldn't have made any sense from a cost perspective because in all the games that don't use ray tracing that card with a cost more and would have delivered still the same performance as a GTX 1080 at this yeah but just at a higher price so yeah it would have been nice if Nvidia did that but logistically it's not really possible no really they shouldn't have even offered racing on that part to be asked well that's not that's actually that's a whole other question I would certainly hope in a future generation that the RT core count does increase quite significantly with these parts you know just 27 nanometer maybe they could put a few more in that would definitely make her so that 2070 type product then a better better value yet a lot more and a lot more crop yeah that is true okay this next question I actually really like this so go through that first and I sort of explain what it means if you sort of don't get it what's the best value build price isn't a variable since I'm looking for the best value out there out of each part so planning a parent with a 1080p 75 Hertz ultrawide monitor so this is kind of where I come at PC hardware from it's like this this person saying they've got whatever money it takes to do it but they don't want to they don't want it ain't for you but they don't want to reach the point of diminishing returns and then go beyond it they want the best bang for their buck which is how we review everything and that's how I want to buy anything in life so yeah that's how what we think most of you guys well yeah if you're buying sits makes sense I mean you work for your money you want it to then get the most value yep you want to spend it wisely so having said all that we've certainly done a lot of videos on the channel about you know best value products so that's a motherboard CPUs GPUs tend update those really often my best value all-rounder and sub $200 CPU right now is the rise than five 2600 yeah so short of any Black Friday deals or anything like that which will have ended by the time this video goes up it's been around that one $60 price point well before Black Friday thang yes that's right that's why I brought that price up so that will continue so probably rise in five 2600 is best bang for your buck CPU and it'll go well into the future without problems graphics card for 1080p it's only 75 Hertz probably only on our x57 yeah when you look at cost per frame RX v 7e we have to be up there is the best value overall yeah how much performance you get from that price obviously well not as good value you know at 1440p an RX 570 it's gonna struggle a bit sure I'd go yet RX 570 or rx 584 gigabyte yeah they're both ridiculously very good value for gigabyte for iup not a problem you can easily choose settings there to make it not a problem ultra wide monitor that's where I'll hand that over to you yeah I think he already has the ultra wide lock does it appeal it is morally opposed but again like I say if you're at 1440p you're probably more looking at like Vega 56 or the 1070 TI I think was when we last looked at it both very good value cards if they're still yeah 1070 TI still in the market I mean that that's a situation where they're not the best absolute best bang for you buck the RX 570 would be that product but if you if you have a 1440p monitor then you're gonna run into problems so kind of you have to make some design considerations well pretend you okay though yeah but NAB definitely our exfoliant for motherboard well be 450 yeah again I'd probably up the tomahawk because then everyone upgrade to higher end CPUs later on that won't be a problem so that's yeah that's a pretty straightforward 16 Giga RAM as well it's probably around the mark and then alternatively I'd look for something like maybe a GTX 1063 gigabyte I kinda hate recommending the three gigabyte card because it does have a limited of erm but it has proven to be really good it's good thing good value so if you can get one of those really cheap around the same prices and Eric's 570 that might be a good alternative on the CPU front though there's nothing from Intel that competes with rise than 528 if that is fair to say definitely got performance at the top end but if you're looking go bang for your buck it's probably not there yeah okay next question from good dog what do you think in video will or can do to restore consumer trust after the churring fiasco hmm well I don't think they have to do they they set your ship with good products yeah and I think I don't what has their reputation really been that damaged I think most people bought them are loving it yeah I mean something I sort of a few issues with the 2080 TI you know the RMA type stuff but then again you know that could happen with really any product launch you could have just a bad batch yeah I mean it's looking like it may extend beyond a bad batch I don't know that's that's a tough one to put a finger on what's going on there if you've bought a really expensive graphics card you've had it die if had are made that died then that's probably bad you depending on what that person's like and how much they loved the car when it finally started working that might be a custom and it's hard to recover especially if am become swinging with a really good 7 nanometre product but in video you are pretty well on top at the moment they're going to stay on top for the foreseeable so they can afford a few slip-ups here and there I mean if you're selling a graphics card some people pay like $1400 yeah if you're selling graphics cards are $1,400 yeah you've probably got a I mean you're not struggling to sell graphics cards it's basic what I'm getting at yeah see and I mean a lot of the things ensuring that you know we've been criticizing a lot in our reviews and in our follow-up coverage of you know things like rate racing deal SS you know the pricing at launch all that sort of sort of stock isn't really like a trust issue because like Nvidia while you know the demos that they showed at launch for ray tracing it hasn't ended up as impressive they did actually ship a card that did ray tracing you know DL SS it's probably not as impressive again as they show but it is a feature that you can use it's just those sort of things yeah we knew going into it the support was limited and stuff yeah so all those things you know companies always try and present their products as best as they can and video went with the different strategies unusual they focus more on the features like our TX over just the simple performance improvements over the previous card so yeah I mean that's kind of what it is I don't think those things necessarily hurt trust it just didn't make the product is good when it came out yeah if AMD come up with something relatively early next year which I think they will but yeah without it being towards the end of the and then Nvidia also plan a new series on a new process media towards the end of the year that's probably gonna upset a few r-tx 20 80 TI investors especially if the new product is significantly better which should be yeah I mean the issue with in ambe's architectures that they're still quite far behind and the architecture front like invidious architecture is much more - it's much much better in terms of even like power consumption on the existing nodes like 12 nanometers in video is miles ahead of AMD so they certainly have a lot of work to do on seven enemies and it'll be very interesting yes I can bring a lot of that stand to the process used as well with Global Foundries being behind TSMC but yeah it'll be interesting to see okay next question quite funny because I was coming to you Tim how knackered I am before he's done this QA that's following a sleepers were leading up to it not forgive your questions just because he's an old man that's why yeah well that's partly because of it and also because I was up really late last night testing CPU performance in battlefield 5 multiplayer boy oh boy is on a chore taking me ages and then the hardware limit thing which EA hasn't roofed my account and I'm working with their tech support to try and get it removed but no updates are progress their fingers cross they can do something for me anyway on to this question that created that little detour how much sleep do you guys get with all the benchmark and all I'm guessing it's better to say in seconds yeah it's not that bad I mean go 4 or 5 hours here and there it depends on what we're doing really for like the ray-tracing thing where they enabled that in battlefield 5 and they happen to do it at like 6 o'clock our time or something I wonder I got testing that at about at 10 11 yes and we're here at work the update to download had to update windows yeah we wanted to get that content done the next day and Tim said well we can make it happen if you do the benchmarking and I do all the image quality stuff so I think I wrapped up the benchmarking the early hours of the morning and yeah same here I've got the quality captures done around that point and if I go to bed really late for some reason I just wake up early it's earlier than I would normally it's some weird defect I have so I woke up at like 7 o'clock I messaged him at 7:30 and said how's it going and he was awake he's like yeah I'm working on the script now it's like you animal so yeah we depends on what time of year it is and what product launches we have and what's going on but yeah we're put in a lot of hours ok another question from a discord chat do you think your testing methodology should be based on the idea that people want to play at high frame rates like 100 FPS or that people want to play at the standard 60fps hmm well over the years I have thought about this sort of thing quite a bit basically I think we don't really want to assume anything and I think that's the problem a lot of people do they when we test say lowering graphics cards with a higher end CPU they're like why don't you test that doesn't make sense test with the core i3 but you're assuming then that everyone's gonna use a low-end processor a while it's more likely they're gonna use a low in process or a post or a high-end one you're then assuming that with that graphics card they're never going to update the processor or that they're not going to use medium quality settings so you've got a you obviously can't test every situation because we'd be testing for 10 times longer than we're doing we already test for an absurd amount of time so you've got to find some sort of middle ground there that gives you useful information that's also somewhat realistic as well so with the 60 to 100 FPS there's not really any point targeting testing methods for 60 FPS because in my opinion 60 FPS is like borderline too low I always target over hundred FPS for your battlefield 5 type games but again I'm not assuming everyone's like me so we just test a middle ground that makes the most sense okay we're getting near the end here we've got a couple of serious questions to get through some burning questions yeah that was a terrible pun ok the question is how long does it take to make a burrito on the 90 her case IHS while running I 264 mmm I don't really know what how to answer that one um Bobby it's probably like you making a chicken burrito for example is it does it get hot enough to actually fried chicken on there if you had a pan that had like it was like manufactured to come down to the yeah and you're using that as the cooler you could probably cook an egg yeah I reckon so lemme what does it take to cook an egg I don't know depends how quickly you want cooks because you can cook it low and slow true so well I suppose you could maybe you can easily with a bit of voltage get them out get them up to like Turner watts okay are we answering this stupid question too technically or trying to I think logistically though the hardest part would be trying to get the pan onto there if you if you're just using the IHS it would be a long panics individual piece of chicken so yeah anyway let's just move on from that one okay we've got a question here from a0 drive and zero drivers guilty of not watching every single video we make so come on go back and watch all the archive what you're doing question is is Ram speed a large factor for performance in games 2400 versus 3200 ddr4 for example well I did a video that pretty much compared though it was actually 2666 and 3200 that I compared and it was on Intel processors so it was a video for Intel users but it somewhat applies for AMD as well and it's just one of those questions like a lot of these questions we get asked in a very general manner it's like what games you're playing what CPU what graphics card what resolution and quality settings so for the most part it makes no difference at all with if you've got a GTX 1060 then pretty much all other things are irrelevant it makes no difference if you've got a gtx 1070 TI if you're playing at 1080p then it can make a difference if you've got you know if you're playing a cpu intensive title if you're playing a GPU intensive title light falls on Rison for no difference at all if you're playing battlefield 5 it will make a bit of a difference and then if you're using a high end GPU then will tend to make even more of a difference again in CPU intensive titles more so so it's a very general question that really depends on your setup so if you're using a GTX 1060 there know for using a higher end say RG 2 extender you're higher than yeah we'll start to make a small difference watch my video because I tested I tested medium high and ultra quality setting presets there's about six games so I tested three quality presets I tested 1440p and 1080p and I tested core i3 Core i5 and core i7 processors but we should put a card or something oh actually what they know is at that side I'm not sure one other side does it we'll put a card up somewhere - a link to that video yeah that's your job ok you can do that hopefully future Steve doesn't forget to do that yep ok another question from our discord chat how do you guys feel about gigabyte advertising there or as RAM as high performance Samsung B die memory it technically is B die when it has loose C L 16 timings and even overclocked to the max can't handle tighter seal 15 charging as much as actual high performance B die such as g.skill flare X I feel like this is cheating consumers by implying it will perform as well as other B die memory will well look B die memory like most things as Bend so you get your really great cell 14 stuff yeah Mac cell 15 stuff and then yeah not really good at all just like doesn't make the cut almost CL 16 and then you get the defective stuff that you never hear about I mean I think the thing is is that it's not false advertising yeah that's exactly right it's going to say it's if it's advertised as some beer died at seal 16 and is a samsung BJ and it runs the sale 16 timings then you've got what you've paid for if they're trying to overclock overlocking is always a bonus that you can get on top of what is advertised so you're never going to be guaranteed overclocking of any product some people are going to be lucky and they'll be able to push the seal 15 or lower and obviously in this buyers case they haven't been as lucky that's just sometimes that works yeah it's very different to something like a GT 1030 situation where you got your GT 1030 gddr5 version and then later on they quietly push out a ddr4 version with nowhere near the same level of performance that's much more dodgy and we don't stand for that but this it's pretty clearly specified how it runs and all that sort of stuff and it's memory so you met like the main thing you look at a memory is the frequency that it operates at and then the timings and if they've made all that clear then yeah just like in this case well you've read some reviews check some stuff out if it's the same price as gee skills flare-ups then you definitely wouldn't buy the gigabyte ora stuff you would buy the g.skill flare ex okay so that's I guess all of the questions fall out November Q&A locks alone I think we've been at this for about an hour now so plenty of fun stuff in the Q&A video of course you can like this video you can subscribe to us on YouTube you can support us on patreon to get access to stuff like our discord chat which is always a bit of fun throughout the throughout the month it's actually building quite nicely the lot of you just go in there yeah lots of discussion we'll do our monthly live stream as well which I'm sure you've heard about before and I guess that's it we'll see you in another Q&A which will be happening in December as well yep probably late December but it will happen in December but some videos between now and then those work on something alright see you next time