Gadgetory

all right welcome back to hardware box this is part two of the October 2018 Q&A I think part one was on the channel probably a few days before now but we've got a whole other selection of questions for this particular video so yes still some interesting things to get to so I guess we'll get to some more questions I want to do it ok next question and I'm gonna get you to us address this one because this is very interesting quite ok I have some thoughts on it why don't we have more than two threads per core and then is it even possible yeah we were talking about this just before head start Lisa Kuhne eggs whether these are the top upvoted question on you Gerry but so the way what hyper threading in SMT is designed to do the multi-threading type thing is just to you better utilize the CPU resources in the actual physical core that's there so around yeah no waiting around you're cutting out you know that sort of time just you know every single time there's something ready to go it's gone it's done it's done so having those two threads go into the one physical core helps that out so when you sort of thinking about running more threads where where you gain the advantage from where the physical core is still the same so is it utilizing that core even more or you're just gonna get bottlenecked by just having more things ready to go in line so yeah I don't think is it possible I'm sure it's possible from a design standpoint to do it I just don't think that there's much of a reason to do it we're already sort of utilizing most of the resources there with existing hyper threading yeah well you have to dedicate part of the die area to making another pipe to the CPU and if that pipe is only gaining you a couple of percent more performance it's not worth the percentage it took yeah created so what's the whole percentage you get say hyper threading versus the non yeah I would guess around 25% Yost in efficiency yeah all that core and adding a third one if it was to even provide an advantage and not go backwards would be only a couple of percent I imagine because if ya having just the extra pipe there would do that so hyper-threading I'm trying I'm just I haven't thought this through like for a quick analogy but it's kind of like if Tim's the core and he's doing work and I'm handing him paperwork to do and then I've got to go get the next bit of paper and Tim sitting there going out where's this next bit of paper and there's a few second delay if there's a second person they're giving him the second bit of paper Tim's always got paper to work on and then it's like just Tim benefit for having a third person if he's only getting a small benefit from the second person's only just helping here and there adding a third person doesn't really help it just means as a third person staying up a bit of paper more often yeah potentially makes it more complex it's more complex and then it might be that if there's another Tim another core then that ends up having to go back to you much thrown away and then reissued and it's just creates a whole mess yeah I guess with these sort of things you know you have to think it seems like a fairly obvious thing that a designer could do is add an extra thread to get more performance but the fact that neither AMD nor Intel has shown any inclination of going to three threads should true sort of tell you that it's probably not right now going to give you that sort of performance advantage yeah I think the fact that an extra pipe doesn't boost performance by a hundred percent it's probably the reason why there's not a third one I think that's more the simplest way of going about that one okay another question from our discord chat from Nick's certain hardware room is that easy to tell a mile off of that fake others seem reasonable and maybe true but sometimes turn out not to be true how have you to determine in the past what is actually real and what's not I'm thinking like in scenarios where you guys have been spot on but many others have been taken in by what seemed to be a believable rumour oh yeah it is that I was just going to interrupt that it's a bit of a joke for the patreon members DirectX 13 is a bit of people yeah yeah that's a lot of stuff I mean I guess sometimes we do sort of get information that's not made public which makes it a bit easier sort of figure out what's going on especially if there's like an upcoming product launch and you know we haven't been to let's say products coming out like a couple of weeks and we haven't heard about it pretty unlikely that whatever that product was being rumored is a legit product at that point yeah especially if they're getting into detailed specifications and performance and then it's usually yeah not true but along the time yeah it's pretty hard to tell but it's just I guess yet so I common sense like this might be a little tell in it that's you know doesn't seem right like you know then take a GPU for example it might have a a reasonable sounding TDP a and core count but then the clock speeds are like much higher than we know that process technology to be able to do so this stuff like that I think you nailed it with the start the RT x-series is a perfect example we heard some things that were later released and we're not gonna say oh we knew that because people like are you sure you did kiss some weak we don't do rumors and we just wait for the official stuff because we're more focused on showing you results that we're not a news channel and we you do your roundup once a week but that that's all we really want to do that's what we really want to do so that's as much news as Tim can handle in a week but the RT X launch is a perfect example it was seeing leaks for months since the start of the year yes it was coming next month it's coming next month and there was all these details and Tim and I said well we've heard of no event yes we've heard nothing and then the way it did go down was we were invited to an event in the US more than a month before I was gonna hit shelves so we would have known five six weeks you know while we were invited to that event weeks in advance yeah yeah so it was almost it was at least six weeks we knew when it was happening and then it was a month after when we thought it was going to be happening again so it was even longer than that yeah yeah so anyway it the way it works we have a pretty good idea of what's happening when so we we know are some events that are happening now that is scheduled for AMD um and you can't say much more than that but we sort of know what it's possibly coming and when yeah it's basically had happens all right Steve if you were buying a new PC primarily for gaming is there any reason to get a 9700 K or 9900 K but given the price of this one I think it's definitely a no anyhow over an 8700 K to be future proofed for the next three or five years so is there any reason to get a 9700 K over an 8700 K the next three to five years well based on the preliminary testing we did for our day one coverage I would say no the way it works is with the hyper threading in terms of CPU resources you could argue that the 8700 K would act what is it like a nine core yeah yes Bob I mean yeah it's a it's a rough at worst case you would say they'd be similar it's kind of like you've got your quad cores like your 7700 KS 6700k with hyper-threading and they still stack up really well today so I don't think there'll be in five years when both CPUs are maxed out I don't think you'll see any difference between the differences that you see today the 9700 caves generally faster because clocked higher and not having hyper-threading can be beneficial for some games I don't think it's worth yeah I don't know it's a tough one that a higher price at the moment it's yeah I mean it's only I think it's only about 40 or $50 more for the 9700 K yeah the 1900 K is well other question because that makes no sense in terms of value yeah it really comes down to price if you could get the 9700 K for the same price as the 87 or okay then maybe yeah it's a tough one it's really you yeah it's hard to say the 97 RK is a few advantages the soldered chip means that it should run a bit cooler but yeah like you can get with a similar price then sure get the nice Allegra K but otherwise it's kind of a pointless CPU at least that's how it seems right now okay another good question from Nick here for games right now and for the near future is there any reason to go beyond eight cores like our current highest and mainstream CPUs from AMD and Intel obviously if you're a content creator the more coarse the better but as a gamer first I'm not trying to be necessarily benefiting from a theoretical 12 core Zen 2 CPU yeah that's a fair assumption yeah we've done a lot of a 6 core verse 8 corner both of the CPUs at SMT technology so that's either AMD's SMT implementation or hyper threading for tell so if it has SMT six core processor perfectly fine as I said in an earlier question even your quad cores with an SMT technology is fine not a problem we haven't seen much difference between the six and eight Saints are starting to pull away a little bit now because eight logical cores are starting to get utilized quite well on the latest and greatest games but from eight to twelve for gaming it's gonna be many years before yeah and again I think we mentioned this a few times with these sort of theoretical what's happening in the future type questions a lot of what's needed for game is really dictated by the game consoles your ps4 in your xbox so right now we're those consoles have such limited CPU power you know it's not necessarily going to be required to have even more cause whereas theoretically let's say yes maybe a PS 5 would have a 12 courses in two CPU then you'll get that leap when developers are suddenly utilized well CPU resource that's true it'll you'll get the leap where it scales across all the core as well but then if you have a quad core that's clocked twice as high it's still going to work ok especially if you have half as many cause a 6 core for example if the 6 cores clocked twice as aggressively as the 12 core on the console that will work just fine so it it's still about the frequency megahertz still matter okay another discord question will thermals of a CPU kill a motherboard faster I believe a downdraft ITX school will hotbox an ITX system so ok yes and no I suppose it's a tough one too it depends how hot the CPU is because obviously on an especially mini ITX board an example you give having any Oh airflow is beneficial generally a leaking so I would say yeah it's a bit of a yes or no situation it depends I think it's probably no for the most part yeah what would the crews having to go what would probably be more of a problem there is just the components themselves so or the CPU itself self the CPUs drawing a lot of and that's stretching the components and that's making them work near maximum capacity which is well above their optimal efficiency level that's probably gonna kill the motherboard fast and I think yeah definitely okay so this is one is for you I reckon for me how much of a performance boost can we expect from ddr5 in gaming and content creation uh I will preface this by saying we're expecting about 80% higher bandwidth yeah looking at does yeah well that keeping that in mind that doesn't actually change my answer yeah there's always a bit of an expectation when you memory technologies come in that they're just going to well huge step forward and it's a lot better it's certainly gonna help if you were to put ddr5 memory on a coffee like CPU like your 8700 k the performance benefit will be virtually zero so we've seen this before in the past slot when going from ddr2 ddr3 and ddr4 ddr4 the initial step on the existing platforms is pretty much the same for a couple of reasons first of all so if you're getting 80% bandwidth boost right off the bat that's good that's more than what we've seen in the past because in the past it's been pretty much parity you started where the and it was just carried on from existing points yeah it's supposed to have better bandwidth at the same speeds that's that's exceptional but in any case that will only provide a performance benefit with current processors assuming that they could support ddr5 which there's no evidence they can but if they could you're not going to see a performance uplift because they're not memory bandwidth limited because you can get ddr4 4000 and something and the performance uplift in most new things is like that it's not huge I mean it can scale quite well on some stuff but for future processors that are designed to take advantage of more bandwidth with more cores and faster cause and things like that then it will just it'll enable the newer CPUs to take that step forward which they couldn't necessarily do with the slower memory technology much like what G DDR 6 has done for the RT X cards they've been out well in that sense they've just sacrificed the the memory bus yeah because they've been out of compensate with faster memory but I'm interested see what it offers but I wouldn't expect any huge leap enable just because of the memory it'll be what the memory enables the newer platforms to do okay this question it will be interesting for Australian viewers and those of you are international viewers who are interested in the Australian market anyway I'll get to the question why our Australian PC parts so inflated especially for graphics cards and CPUs I understand conversion rates but like God Tim and rgx 20 80 and 87 Rek is literally 2k so yeah basically in Australia what are you saying there is what it works out to be in US dollars you're straight conversion and there's a significant percentage increase over that for us Ozzy shoppers for a lot of things they call it Australia tax similar to the I suppose Apple tax yeah you're I guess Europe also faces a similar issue so yeah we did speak to one of these sort of retailers that gave us a bit of an insight into this and I guess one of the things that that they mentioned was that America and Australia have different distribution networks so here a lot of things are done through distributors whereas in the u.s. it might be done directly with the vendor which of course you add in a distributor they have to take a cut so that increases the end pricing so they're cutting the middleman is if you other things some people doing the direct conversion don't factor in our added sales tax I've seen that's a fairly common mistake to make on top of that we have different consumer law here different warranties so often the overheads for supporting those different things can increase the cost cost of doing business I think as well one of the big things that people sort of or companies adding is just the willingness to buy or the your purchasing power sort of factor which I guess companies figure that Australians have more purchasing power they're more disposable income or something so they figure that you know we are more willing to spend more than the direct conversion so because we're more willing to spend more they can price it higher and we very often say that with games let's go so what happens with games you'll you'll see a lot of the game sites that sell keys across multiple you'll see so like Russia I think as well it's often very cheap compared to Australia yes they have a lot lower willingness to buy and so yeah obviously that's exactly the same product that cost them literally the same for distributions that's one of the one of those things where you see that purchasing power argument come into play yeah it's very dodgy but that's just how the world works yeah basically this retail is also saying that you know if they're working directly with the brand it's pretty easy for them to match us regular retail price plus GST to Australian dollars so yeah it does depend I think it there's a a final issue that we're sourcing a little bit is when we gain the sort of stock related issues like Intel struggling to produce ninety nine hundred case or companies struggling to produce enough chips that they tend to prioritize the u.s. is our market yeah so we got the scraps yeah here we get some issues with you know ninety nine hundred case being even less available than they on the US which pushes prices higher so yeah we get so many issues pretty much yeah supply and demand hits us a bit harder yeah alright next question is 4k resolution worth it by 27-inch screen as high frame rate or high resolution at the most important for casual gamer in my opinion it really depends on the gamer and the game you're playing 4k at 27 inch is the minimum I would go I've got a 4k 27-inch screen for testing and it's noticeably better than the 1440p version I have if you're looking just for sharpness and all that so you can definitely see the difference in my opinion but personally I would prefer the 1440p screen for the higher frame rates if I'm playing FPS games and stuff like that but anyway this is sort of a Tim yeah I think you know it's it's nice to tend to play different games and mushrooms but I do play a lot of your sort of role-playing games an action-adventure games where the high frame rate isn't as important for your competitive advantage and I still find that you know if my choice is between running at 4k at a lower frame rate or 1440p at a high frame rate I will always choose 1440p at a higher frame rate because the quality increase especially in get like things where there's no text or you don't mean that you don't really need that super fine detail it's gonna be more your you know can I run it an ultra compared to high or can I run it at a higher framerate those things give a much bigger improvement to the experience and the quality of the game as opposed to just switching from 40 42 4k but if you were telling me which one would I prefer for reading a book or something reading websites you know the Christmas of text at 4k is like massive I think you've said it in the past and I agree that 1440p especially for 27-inch screen is the sweet spot because the on a on a 27-inch screen the difference between 1080p and 1440p for game is massive yeah massive here's a lot sharper yeah why are you different whereas from 1440p to 4k it's like it's it's in my opinion you can definitely tell the difference but it's like okay yeah that's bad that's a bit sharper yeah it's a bit nice no ice up but yeah from 1080p to 1440p it's like whoa yeah this is a totally different ballgame and then if you're talking about like 60 FPS versus a hundred FPS or even worse like 30 versus like 60 then you know it's gonna be um not like way bigger difference than just the resolution just so yeah comes out of personal preference and the games you're playing I think it's probably that simple all right next question the latest I $9.99 hundred K flagship CPU seems to be pushing the boundaries of thermals with even minor overclocks from a pure performance standpoint does Intel have any meaningful way to release a superior non HD DT chip before the 10 nanometer transition no no they don't no they don't they're in a really really tough position that at this point I have to get 10 nanometre out to go further they have to they're stuck so the night under a really is pushing - and arguably beyond boundaries which is why we're seeing all these problems with motherboards and cooling and whatnot yeah there's the it's really why Intel has been such a mess this year we're used to seeing Intel released stuff it's done it all goes fairly well and then we've we've seen the well kb lake was acted very quickly wasn't it yep coffee like came out of nowhere offered six cores to compete with rise and so he got that and then that started off and then they realized they had to gain 8-core on that platform and a lot of the boards wouldn't support that kind of power delivery so they released these at 390 chipset to signify that the Zen 390 boards can support they're ready for the eight cores they're intended for the eight cores and they will work and we still have this huge issue with some boards limiting power because they don't want to kill themselves over a relatively short period of time so yeah the answer's no really yep even for the high-end desktop platforms where they're not going anywhere with that either yeah I don't think so so we're gonna be stuck on on both fronts so yeah they need two nanometer to come mmm next year could be pretty brutal for Intel if she wasn't already they've had the year from how the security stuff alone was brutal for them but yeah it's been rough for Intel yeah it's been a really rough year I don't I think they've ever seen you like this before in the company's history mm-hmm I mean they're still selling CPUs quite well probably not towards the end of the year but they were earlier on yeah next year's gonna be very interesting that is for sure okay we'll aim D ever catch up to Intel in instructions per clock often referred to as IPC a single core so that's sort of the same thing all they always play second fiddle cause with upcoming 7 nanometre cpu they have a lot of headroom I double that of and then I have I can double that of Intel okay I had a little my little weird doctorate yeah walk it off yeah so that butchered the end of my mic wish or reading the question out there I mean will they catch up to the instructions per clock I mean that's on the architecture design team it they're just not gonna make much of a difference with seven nanometer because they'll just be allowing to clock higher and well more yes no so well the IPC really relies on a lot of things yeah people see anything that's just to do with it's the call so it's the sitting around the core as well you say IPC changes dramatically when you tighten up memory timings with Rison and the latency improvements that they made with second gen Rison certainly attributed to improved IPC yeah so if the next gen goes to what we're talking about before ddr5 and that makes huge bandwidth improvements possibly latency timing improvements and all that stuff together and they may very well overtake and they're not that far be if you if you chew up the memory now for both platforms AMD and Intel and obviously compare them at the same core count and clock speed for productivity Intel has like we're talking very low single-digit percentage game gaming that's very latency sensitive it comes up to like 10 percent so you sort of get into low double digits yeah yeah so I mean 7 nanometre will give Andy an advantage in that they won't be as limited by a clock speed anymore relative to Intel that's the big one this they're behind on IPC and clock speed at the moment so I mean you get the dog way and that's why they've gone with more cause when they move to seven enemy that they'll be able to hopefully and it seems like all the things that TMC are saying suggests they will be able to push up those frequencies closer to what Intel is already achieving with Intel's own 14 nanometer and then yeah as you were saying it's kind of the rest of the stuff that needs to go into them improving IPC so that's not necessarily as related to 7 nanometre tech so what they're doing AVX instructions in particular can they improve their efficiency there will help them out with some productivity were close again well I think latency yeah all that sort of stuff will be helped by the node shrink as well yeah because they can dedicate a bit more resources to fattening those things up but we'll see before till I mean we're not claiming anything who knows could could be terrible could be amazing could be anything but we're expecting we are expecting pretty good things all right I'll read this one out because I have no idea what I'm having to answer it most anticipated PC games for 2019 and we thought about 2019 I'm still trying to get through all the day 1 reviews of this month let alone we've got a few games to come that fall out yeah yeah fill that there's like hit man and just cause I think towards the later end of the year battlefield 5 as well a lot of 50 GPU benchmarks for me have fun that's between nineteen oh what do you reckon I mean metros out next year yeah that's where the main one because I really enjoyed not just because of the new technology that probably but the probably name itself probably won't be in the game when it comes out let's be honest yeah if we haven't got ray-tracing sorted out by then yeah I mean a lot of stuff doesn't get announced until the year of these days that's right it's hard to know I mean I'm not as bullish on anthem oh no that's like a big game people are really mixture as well I think maybe they push that to the end of next year but so I'm not it was early certainly Nick I think was holiday I'm not quite beyond that but I'm certainly not as excited about that it seems more in line with destiny which is a game I didn't really get into all that much so and you know EAS games tend to be a little disappointing lately when they've been released so yeah I mean again it's hard to know without a full slate of what's to come but certainly Metro for sure and then PC game we've got to the point now where will you take it on a per game basis as it's released and you get to check it out yeah pretty much cuz yeah getting hopped up and excited for a game is no longer a good strategy yeah yeah we'll just check the games out as they come next year benchmark the hell out of them and Tim will do some optimizations and give you his impression of the game okay this is a question that I see come up sometime so I've included in here so this person asks hi being a fan of Witcher 3 does r-tx cards improve or enhance the visual quality in this title especially during sunset and samurai scenes so simple as there is no buying a new CPU or GPU architecture switching from AMD to in video anything like that has no impact on the visual quality the qualities things are just set in the game you can either run them or you can't running a new GPU doesn't give you doesn't unlock like a new tier of quality it still does it still looks the same yeah that is assuming you not coming from a card that couldn't run about Ultra dog yeah that's the only reason why you might say so yeah I suppose that's the confusion with that question so people get excited for a new GP to go back and play an older game because now they can play it at a higher quality setting higher resolution so it's nicer and sharper and all that but for example Ultra on Pascal Cotte an ultra on a cheering card of both going to look exactly keep the same yeah as I mean running at a high frame rate in my opinion does deliver better visual coid smoother it's nicer to play and it just looks clearer and sharper when you're playing at a higher framerate but aside from that visual visual fidelity the effects and everything is the same all right so that is all the questions that we've done for October in 2018 it seems like really did the september 1 like just last week but guess it's more actually a whole month in the end yeah it was late last yeah I lose track I think it's just been really busy yeah it's cuz of all launches the RTX 2070 the core I nine thread Ripper actually that's still coming up through the 12 and 24 core yeah so pretty crazy lots of lots of stuff so yeah we keeping ourselves busy so hopefully you guys have all subscribe to catch all that content but if you haven't definitely do that and yeah give this video a thumbs up if you liked it and I guess we'll see you in the very next one [Laughter]