Gadgetory

welcome back to harbor unboxed a few days ago now I finally got our g-force r-tx 2060 coverage online and we've already received loads of great comments I did predict that a reply to comments episode would likely follow for that video and well here it is I did my best to cover the r-tx 2060 and the entire r-tx series in that video but as expected there were still quite a few good questions of things I either overlooked or really didn't have time to get into but before I get into the comments and start the whole replying to comments thing I do have an embarrassing confession to make I screwed up at the cost per frame graph in that video unfortunately I was completely unaware of the mistake I'd made and it wasn't until viewer Klaus emailed me pointed it out that I was able to correct it so I really appreciate him taking the time to point out my mistake Klaus was also right on to what I'd done wrong I accidentally took the cost per frame data from the RX 570 video from a few days prior and that was based on the attorney pier results I failed to update the FPS numbers to the 1440p results so yeah that's why they turned out to be a lot better value than there should have been so I was meant to just copy and paste the actual value of the cards and not the cost per frame so yeah this meant that the gtx 1050 TI the three gigabyte and 60 gigabyte 1060 along with the RX 570 and 580 appeared to be much better value than they really were so here is the original incorrect cost per frame graph and well here is how it should have looked the second I was made aware of the mistake I updated the text by article and then pinned a comment with the correct graph on the video but sadly I couldn't go back and undo the damage already done so please accept my apology for letting this embarrassing mistake slip by me okay so let's get into what was by far the most discussed topic and that was erm there were hundreds upon hundreds of comments talking about the six gigabyte VRAM of the r-tx 2060 claiming that it wasn't enough and before too long it would become a major issue a viewer the mighty wombat noted that everyone keeps bringing up these secure byte versus a gigabyte debate but fails to take into account that they're comparing GD d r 6 with gddr5 presumably this is when talking about the gtx 1070 1070 TI and the 1080 for example let's talk about capacity first it's true that right now for some title 6 gigabytes is right on the edge and under certain conditions and may not be enough though I'm yet to see a situation at 1440p that you can't tweak the settings to avoid flooding the vram buffer and almost always you can do this with very little impact to the visual quality so at least for now 6 gigabytes of vram is fine at 1440p and the benchmark data that I provided my r-tx 2060 review certainly supports that we saw really solid 1 percent frame time performance and pretty much all the titles and the only time it wasn't solid I would say is more a driver bug as the six year by 10 60 was ok so yeah suggest that it's not a VM capacity issue how the 6 cubic buffer will fare in upcoming tiles is yet to be seen but at some point it will almost certainly be an issue for the 2060 but again we'll just have to monitor things and see how this situation develops and you can bet will do exactly that as for the memory being faster you know G DDR 6 and all that well that's certainly nice but it doesn't make up for a lack of capacity and a perfect example of this would be the fury X it's super fast for gigabyte vm buffer became a major issue before too long so I'll admit paying $350 for a modern graphics card with just 6 gigabytes of memory is a bit of an issue and it's something that I should have discussed more in my previous video the problem is for now I can't really fault it and I hate to guess as to when you'll start to run into trouble my guess is that you'll probably be able to manage it for quite some time without really too much of an issue again don't really want to put a frame time on this because I am just guessing but I would say for at least the next year possibly - it'll be a pretty easy thing to manage and a lot of titles you probably won't have to manage anything at all but again that's just a guess time will tell okay moving on black widow said something along the lines of on average 53 percent faster than 1060 with same amount of VRAM for 40% more expensive the 1060 was on average 70 percent faster than the 960 with three times as much vram while it was only 25% more expensive so all in all the 2060 is not a good product the reason why it looks so good now is because basically saying the rest of the r-tx series is bad yeah I get where you're coming from but it's a completely different market right now so the GTX 960 that was one of the examples you gave that had to compete with the r9 270x 280 and 285 the rjx 2060 on the other hand well it has to compete with Vega 56 and I think it's pretty hard to argue that it doesn't the arch X 2060 makes the 27 you look like a pretty poor value option but as for the rest of the r-tx series looking bad as Black Widow puts it it isn't the reason why the 2060 looks good it looks good or at least appealing because it is the best value option at that price point moving on I received loads of really nice comments as we often do from you guys that's always massively appreciated and it helps us get through those big benchmark grinds anyway the comment I want to point out here was from El I think was ELLs MO or something like that I don't actually haven't run over me now I put the phone down I think it was Al's mo and I forgot that wrong sorry but I picked this one out as an example not because it was anything wrong with the comment it was quite nice really but there was something that I want to talk about here it was something that we discussed with our patrons in last week's live stream and it was something that I thought I needed to bring to the main channel so after our video detailing what happened with Nvidia in regards to the RT X 2060 sample a lot of people seemed to interpret that as being evidence of I suppose all day one coverage being pure shield jobs to keep these companies happy for either free samples or advertising dollars or perhaps both so let me be clear about this most other tech media outlets that provide day one content fair neutral and they aren't shields as it's often put for example you might not agree with the gamers Nexus r-tx 2060 review I actually still haven't watched that one yet so shame on me I'm a little bit behind on my GN content suppose that's both a good and a bad thing depending on how you look at it anyway Dingle sidetracked there I'm using us Steve as an example here because well gamers Nexus do incredibly good work and it doesn't really matter whether their contents brought to you under embargo or if it's delivered at a later date really doesn't matter with those guys it's going to be the same unbiased content every time and well we hold ourselves to that same standard and I know a lot of other media outlets do as well so anyway I just want to make it clear that we aren't suggesting or we weren't suggesting that anyone who signs NDA's and get samples ahead of release or any less honest than we are no one really accused us of that certainly no other tech media did but I just want to make that clear because we saw a few comments then we thought okay yeah that that may be taken the wrong way so just want to clear that up okay comment here from tank to g2 says that 399 Vega 64 is still a decent deal she's fair enough comment there are a few people that were a little more agitated that I wasn't recommending Vega 64 because it is down to around $400 but I did point that out my video I just said that the $400 ones use the reference cooler and yeah not a big fan of that one but yeah it is a decent deal to be honest I personally would rather have the RT X 2060 though just because it comes with a nice cooler you can get the zotac gaming r-tx 2060 twin fan that can be had for $350 and it will almost certainly run cooler and quieter again I realize there is some risk associated with that six gigabyte vram buffer but for $400 I would really want to be getting my hands on a custom AIB Vega 64 card something with a good cooler before I'd be willing to pull the trigger that's just my personal preference but yeah that's why I'm not recommending Vega 64 because I wouldn't personally buy it myself for $50 more than the RT X 2060 okay another con he wasn't too much of this criticism on this video though I did see a few comments about the card that we use to Vega 64 version and it's come up a lot in the past basically the comment is can you please use another Vega the asou Strix suffers from throttling due to poor VRMs well-known issue unfair comparison I think it's actually the cooling on the very arms and not the actual power delivery system itself but yeah it's my understanding that some of the earlier models had issues with the thermal pads I believe they weren't covering the verum entirely the surface area of the power stages and that would cause them to overheat cause the card to throttle and whatnot myasu Saiga 56 and 64 cards have had the thermal pads replaced and according to the readouts in hardware info operating well within they expected parameters I'm also not seeing any core throttling I should also just point out it was there in the graph so I'll point out anyway that myasu Saiga 64 card kept up really well with the liquid version so that it is vague a 64 liquid and I would have thought that would be the ultimate out-of-the-box benchmark so based on information I would have to say that the card isn't throttling it's not an unfair comparison and again the Vegas 64 liquid results were included in that video all right another variant related question here Matt can you do tweet AIB Vega 56 under-voltage slash overclocked versus AIB 2060 overclocked a stock Vega is pretty underwhelming but tweaked it's a different beast running fast with significantly lower power draw yeah look this is something I could do and I actually have done similar sort of content in the past if I do do an updated version it's not going to be a big benchmark video just be a look at how they compare with the tweak settings and a few new newer more demanding titles with this stuff you've milage it will vary when under vaulting so some cards will undervolt really well some not so well it's really just like overclocking it's a silicon lottery deal so to say all cards will undervolt like champs is a bit misleading or very misleading and honestly I don't know what the average result for under vaulting is alright this neck comment is from Jack Villar while I definitely agree with most that the price of what you get is too high I strongly disagree that nobody asked for ray-tracing nobody in their right mind would say I don't want better effects what you don't want is poor performance this is literally the first time we've ever had ray tracing in real time which is impressive for a single card to do in the first generation of ray tracing cards okay so this was an issue with my video that I saw raised by a few people and think what we have here is a bit of a misunderstanding firstly everyone who complained about this heard the same thing which was me saying nobody asked for ray tracing which in wasn't what I said what I said was as far as I can tell nobody really wants it now you might say well you're splitting hairs here that's pretty much exactly the same thing and well yeah it kind of is but as is often the case context is important so what I really said was this technology so ray tracing is basically being crammed down the throats of gamers and as far as I can tell nobody really wants it at least in its current form and that's the real problem the current hardware implementation really isn't good enough to be of any real benefit so I'm not saying nobody asked for ray tracing and I'm not saying nobody wants it I'm saying in its current form there are very few gamers who want to pay a premium for it now look if we could turn on dax-ur and go suffer a small performance impact for a noticeable difference to the way the game looked and without any glitches such as shimmering and all that kind of stuff then hell yes sign me up for a tracing but what we've seen so far is nowhere near nowhere near justifies enabling DX er so I'm talking about battlefield 5 obviously sure that's my opinion but I think given the feedback of well the vast majority of you and other reviewers and guys who are into tech and play games I feel like my opinion here really isn't out of line or that unusual or differs much from the norm okay I'll sort of summarized this one I'll throw the whole comment up on the screen so I don't misrepresent Eric here there was a few people that did bring up sort of a similar argument not a high percent sure why but I made the comment saying the r-tx 2080 and 1080 TI have basically the same performance so he's pretty well correctly quoted me there but then sort of seems to misinterpret what I was saying anyway I'll read out part of the comment now the r-tx 2080 consistently outperforms the 1080i in the vast majority of games and the few tiles that the sanity eye wins in are typically older titles such as GTA 5 furthermore if you compare titles such as Wolfenstein 2 or adaptive shading is use the 2080 absolutely crushes the 1080i with driver optimizations and all that sort of stuff on the horizon expected 2080 to pull further ahead then add on the top features like del SS rate racing lower power consumption and envy link support it's clear the 2080 is superior to the 1080i okay so rewind based on that Eric B is upset that I said the rjx 2018 and 1080i had basically the same performance I think that's fair unless my testing differs a lot from what others have found yeah it's technically not an untrue statement it's not really even misleading to say so naturally you would assume based on what I've said there that they are very similar on average they deliver similar performance the 2080s a little bit faster but not a whole lot faster so yeah not sure so he's correct in newer games the 2080 is up to 10 to 15% fast but it's not all new again so we've seen some newer games where it's actually slower and it's certainly slower on older games like GTA 5 so yeah again it wasn't really a whole lot faster and average I think it was 1% from memory so not a whole lot faster Eric then goes on about DL SS which personally I'm still not sold on I know Tim's not I think a lot of you guys are still waiting for more games and further investigation into how good that looks and if there's any issues with it I don't think I need to say too much more about ray-tracing I think I've covered that one in probably already in this video but I've certainly covered at my opinion on it before so far the same goes for envy link I don't know why guys make envy link out to be some sort of special godlike SLI mode I'm not sure about that one and just finally wrapping this one up Eric B says at the end of his comment if you want to compare the 1080i and 2080 then comment something like the 2080 is slightly faster than the 1080i would be more accurate as saying they have the same performance is a bit disingenuous but again Eric you've quoted exactly what I said I didn't say the same I said basically the same so yeah I never said that it would be disingenuous to say that they are the same because they're not the same a 1% difference across it's not the same so yeah I said it's basically the same performance because on average the 2080 was 1% faster in my testing so yeah okay thomas has a question here I'm just gonna read the start of it just want to focus on there DL SS part he says please redo the benchmarks Wendy LSS is a thing yeah look DL SS isn't a thing that we can just redo the benchmarks with the games have to implement support for the technology and so far we only have one example of that and it's a pretty bad example in fact it's so bad that Tim didn't really bother revisit he's waiting at for it to come or waiting for a better game to support it because he says that the AAA implementation in Final Fantasy is pretty garbage so yeah it's by no means coming to all games but hopefully for the sake of RTX owners support will dramatically improve this year okay Kelly your resolve says MSI backplate is plastic or metal Tech deal says it's plastic but it really looks like metal so I'm confused well we've got it here it's very cool it's very cool and uh yeah it's a it's aluminum or aluminium depending on where you where you are in the world but yeah aluminum definitely 100% aluminium shroud on the top is plastic but yeah backplate is aluminium looks pretty snazzy and yeah moving on okay Rex rat says what was your reasoning for saying this wouldn't be worth the upgrade over the 980ti so I said it wouldn't be worth upgrading from a 980ti to the r-tx 2060 and then he just says is just a case of performance increase not being worth $150 yeah the 980ti is similar to the gtx 1070 in terms of performance if your overclock the 980 - I think it's a little bit faster than a stock gtx 1070 so anyway what all that means is that an RC X 2060 is going to be maybe 10% faster on average than a gtx 980ti so spending $350 us for a 10% bump doesn't really seem worth it to me ok last comment here that we're going to look at this one's kind of a feel-good nice one but I yeah I just wanted to touch on it there were plenty of really nice supportive comments so thank you very much for all of those no she says honestly you do great work even if there are points I disagree with which they're seldom are you present your arguments well and they're based on facts don't let immature behavior of some bother you you and Tim both seem well grounded on your reviews keep up the great work so yeah big thank you there to know she and everyone else who did leave positive comments and feedback and stuff on that video that's always great and it's it's always really nice to hear from someone who can disagree with us on some things seldom or otherwise but they can disagree with us but still engage in discussion and yeah have just have a positive discussion I guess is what I'm trying to say that's always really nice because it's always very disappointing to me when we come across some comment where someone said unsubbed it actually happened once or twice on that video and then I asked if they're willing to give a reason for why they deciding to announce that their unsubscribing hey both of these people came back and they they said that they no longer agree with some of the things I say or a lot of the things I say and yeah I mean I thought that was a bit disappointing because it's always good to have difference of opinions sometimes you can agree to disagree but your the the opinions and the feedback from you guys has helped shape and refine our reviews and we don't always agree but sometimes it changes the way we look at things or maybe we thought that wasn't the best way of going about things and that's why we always spend so much time trying to interact with you guys in the comments and it's probably a reason why we've led to this reply in a comment series as well yeah always a bit disappointing when people who don't agree with you can't even have any kind of conversation but anyway getting away from that sort of negative stuff again it's really great to hear comments like gnocchi's and there was loads of them so again thank you to everyone who took the time showed their support or just left some sort of positive feedback as always it is very much appreciated okay well that about wraps it up the big ones here were my botching of the cost per frame data thankfully that didn't impact the conclusion in any way because if it did I'd have to pull the video redo it and reupload it so I guess there's that but and it also didn't affect the r-tx 20 60 or any of its direct competitors but it did make the Lauren cards look much more impressive than our in terms of value the other big topics were very own capacity something that I'll be sure to keep an eye on very interested to test all the new big triple-a titles that are coming out this year and see how the RT X 2060 compares to something like the RT X 2070 in those tiles and you know very goo and all that sort of stuff other the other thing is you know you can trust day 1 reviews so we didn't mean to suggest if we did to anyone that that wasn't the case in the video about Nvidia and RR TX 2060 was actually on that topic there is one more thing I would like to touch on something we also discussed in the patreon livestream other takeaway for some people regarding that Archie X 2060 review I think it was told something like dear Nvidia screw us we have the takeaway from that video for a lot of people were that we were just upset we didn't get our for example I feel like it was explained better than that or at least should have been so that shouldn't have been the takeaway but if not if I didn't explain it as well as I thought I'd which is certainly possible the core issue here being that we were concerned in video was trying to mute our coverage because they didn't like what we had to say about the RT x-series and if that was the case we certainly wouldn't be the last to get the ax the next most critically objective media outlet would now no doubt be the next to go so yeah we were kind of hoping to put a stop to that one before it got too out of hand we were also frustrated with the fact that in video we were frustrated with how they handled the situation I guess is just the quickest way to go about that one they promised us a sample a sample in time for a day one coverage that didn't happen they had a sign NDA's so that turned out to be pretty well pointless since we had no information to leak they then hit us with a generic response when we asked why other media outlets had samples for now we're still waiting to hear back from a video on the issue so we have no idea if we'll be sampled for the next product release or I'll have to go somewhere else so yeah I guess time will tell on that one but yeah that's pretty much everything I think I needed to or wanted to cover in this video I think I'll end it here before I continue to ramble on about things because there has been quite a bit of rambling in this video a lot more than usual anyway if you want to see more content from us if all my rambling this video hasn't put you off and you you can subscribe now you can support us on patreon that I'll give you access to our monthly live streams where we discuss a whole heap of stuff over multiple hours and I just scored chat where we chat with you guys on a very regular basis anyway that is going to do it for this one I am yo Steve thank you very much for watching and I will see you again next time