Gadgetory

what's up guys JC sense here and I have a guest in studio today none other than Steve from gaber's Nexus Stephen Burke I really just brought him here to kind of let him see where we beat his scores by a lot yeah it's uh it's interesting though because I was looking around and there's some things in here that I'm not sure are legal so I'm gonna need you to delete those scores today's video is brought to you by cable odd and the cable odd configurator if you want custom cables for your computer if you want them custom-made with your colors and your choices and your configs you can do that on the cable mod configurator that support all major brands of PSU is both modular and semi modular and you can have cable extensions made but the best part is previously they offered aluminum cable combs and only black and white but now you can get them in various color so if you want to take your system to the next step and really make it pop get some custom cables and make them your way put the cable mod configurator you can start playing around with that by using the link in the description below alright so as you guys know we're getting ready to be doing some stuff with the EB GS 20th anniversary with some overclocking Ellen 2 and obviously when Steve is close by why not do some sort of a discussion piece because this isn't this is such a busy time of the year yes more so than I think we've talked about this and publicly and offline that this is probably the busiest it's ever been and the duration I've been doing YouTube and so what's happening here is we've got a lot of compelling SKUs on both side of the fence so my idea here was that we do a discussion piece about the offering of AMD and Intel and why someone might want one versus the other and why and I say one about the brand cuz we're talking about Andy versus Intel and then drilling down through those fuse yeah there's a lot of them right here which is leading to a lot of I think buyer confusion because I always preach like look we can't tell you what's coming but we can tell you things are coming and you should wait yeah and and then and then they wait and then suddenly it's like wow I've got like 10 choices you know yeah so first things first would you agree with the statement that AMD has certainly come a long way right the IPC's have improved obviously the core count has improved the clocks not so much I've improved a couple hundred megahertz from first gender rise in a lot of that it's falling into precision boost to territory where it's it's kind of like GPU boost territory where it's pushing the maximum out of box clock as high as as reasonable so this is all over the head room but at the same time that's doing it already yeah like that's fine we're doing it for you but but what couldn't you also say that the 9900 K is not really much of an exception either though because it's you turn on all core like a CPU enhancement right multi more yeah it's gonna get pretty close to five gigs on its own anyway not many CPUs can go higher than 505 one I mean we kind of hit our first you know ceiling right around five - without going much colder temperatures right so even then you're only getting about an extra 100 or 200 megahertz but that's a gigahertz faster than what AMD is currently offering right so there lies that kind of like the underlying I think that's a great topic for buyer confusion because there's a few things here that I can immediately think of that I've wanted to address on our channel as well which is first of all bigger like bigger number isn't always better so on Intel side bigger frequency isn't necessarily better and on AMD side bigger core count isn't necessarily better right there are cases where they're both better but and that presents itself in all of our benchmarks right right a bench versus you know one versus the other but then there's gaming versus one of the other and creamier versus yeah like when we were doing the rise in 3900 X overclocking the other day there accounts like the yellow - overclocking yeah it's so like oh you're going for 5 gigahertz on a 3900 X I can do that on walls yeah air with an okay which is like okay cool but they're way different though they're not there are nowhere near the same architecture obviously I mean and core counts different - yeah but but what you have here is because two companies have taken very different approaches to have a CPU architecture works you have a singular game developer or whatever we're talking about you know Square Enix or whoever they've got to sort of make the game work on both and it's never gonna be perfect on both when it is someone's always gonna suffer and I feel like AMD's the one that sort of suffering because there's different schedulers and because there's different subroutines and all that based on well a lot of it is the best demonstration of does it like frequency or threads more you take a ninety seven hundred okay and a ninety nine hundred K sent them to the same frequency and then if there's no GP bottleneck are they equal right and if they're equal then the threads on the 99 higher K aren't really helping it right so yeah I guess the to kind of start answering the question of I'm building a new PC what should I buy and your Intel whatever use case yeah so the first thing to do is figure out what are you doing and be realistic about it right so are you only gaming are you only doing like real work I find that a lot of only gamers shop at a five hundred dollar CPU price point though like a nine hundred K or 30 1913 a hundred x I don't know anymore I I don't think a lot - yeah it's kind of like why the 2500 K was king right four cores no hyper-threading great core frequency the same thing with like the i-5 it 6700 K and all those it's like everyone I guess it was 66 on R K because I forget now we're at I 9 now yeah but yeah it was one of those like the non hyper threading part was always kind of like the superior part for gaming but what I started to find that this value proposition was right right the performance per dollar was there yeah but what's happening now is I feel like cork out now is growing at such an exponential rate the developers are not able to leverage the power on either side 9 a header K or even or even the 3900 I think you start if you start looking at it as so ultimately you're bound by how much work can your single fastest thread do for a lot of these games it's I'm dolls law and if you start looking at something like what's your most populated thread in a game it's probably gonna be the render thread so ultimately in gaming for today you are going to be limited by the single fastest thread example in a lot of scenarios we saw in Far Cry 5 moved during our overclock testing you know post closure I mean that is an AMD title and stuff but we saw that you know quite a few threads were just sitting on 0 quite cousin we're just sitting at 0 doing nothing and then Becky said that that render thread didn't move much and it was usually peg to the upper 80s or higher yeah exactly and then you might have something blip every now and then maybe there's some AI that got processed right or whatever that doesn't necessarily mean that you know and these caught up enough now in in this type of workload where NR 5 3600 is kind of in my opinion in a position where Intel's previous i5s were like that 6600 okay or are like the one of the 4000 series was the Cooper area that and I think it's it's to a place where when we used to say an i-5 is enough for gaming now it's an r5 yeah okay man yeah but they look of what quark county get with our five versus you know you know just two years ago 12 threads what used to be an i-5 class part that would be like four four core and that wasn't in just three years ago that was an X series part from Intel yeah and and yeah now yeah the 6 and 12 right and now the the games are actually using more than four core for thread it's the extent that you start seeing hits and frame time performance so you'll get a bit of a spike every now and then mm-hm if you're playing with something like an older i5 so the newer iPods do a bit better but so I mean if we wanted to get down as granular as core count right so I guess if you have a program that favors core count nothing this is your primary workflow whether you're building some sort of a work machine dual purpose gaming slash work machine you have to ask yourself what is the primary purpose of that PC right if gaming a secondary but you have programs that leverage core count hmm at overclock then would you say it's a fair statement that AMD is is the proposition value the yes the better value overall yes yeah yeah and I would also I would break it down to like if you're looking at building a PC first my first question is are you using this PC to make money right like is this for real work right and if it's for real work and you're making money on it then you start looking at more expensive processors there might actually be a reason to buy those because if you're doing something like rendering scenes everyday and one's 20% faster and it's bottle back in your workflow not what you have said is is a serious kuna cost loss yeah now you can make more money yeah so that's a that's a big question to ask yourself if the answer is no I'm just an enthusiast I want a hack around with blender every now and then I want to play around with Unreal Engine and kind of learn it and I'd like to play some games it doesn't matter quite as much I think yes I would agree value proposition in general for a core count especially as na Indies favor higher core count doesn't always win everything but it wins quite a lot of production workloads some programs like premier that's why I asked before this if you guys use premier is we know for a fact that premier favors core clock and memory speed memory speed was pretty big for premier because obviously it dumps everything to memory right and it goes off the memory that's why you see memory slams during the render right right and so what you tend to find is that sometimes it may not necessarily be much faster or any faster at all on Intel but once you start bumping up the memory speed you get off that base clock of 2133 or 2656 you start approaching 3,800 4000 then you see there's a gap and that just comes down to the CPUs limitation of how fast and how easily can you get the memory out of the box you know with the least amount of tuning until it's nicely that's a good point of how easily out of the box is a really good point because the first gen rise and launch not easy it's not easy no I think if you could get 3000 or 3233 or you were ahead yeah I think right now the if we kind of let's I guess like break down the stack for people one of them these biggest competitors is AMD yeah because the previous gen ships are really which is why I preached I preached I mean I went to church in my video telling people look don't buy anything right now please for the love of God you know there's gonna be price slashing it so many people didn't listen and still won out and by now you can get what 2600 for like 120 dollars yeah 2600 is like one 440 and 2600 ax is 160 that's insane 2700 is $200 and if you're a gamer you get the Xbox pass with it you can play the Xbox games on PC right so we were we had a question coming of okay why should I buy the r5 3600 over the 2700 because they're not to just they're about the same in price and for the most part the 3600 it's got a thread deficit so if you're doing blender and stuff yeah by the 2700 over hit 24.0 or something probably one and let it go the 3600 I would I could still make an argument for it in gaming only builds but the 2700 is is such a good deal right now right for a part that launched out like 300 plus an eight-core 16 threads I guess it gets the job done at overclocks well yeah by well I mean you can still usually get 4 gigs a good for almost for sure I would say it's had a lot of maturity in in terms of just iOS bios support bios maturity software supports mirror there was the the rest of the bottle of destiny to not launching on Zen - yeah and this is this is the this is the bleeding edge adoption period of any new piece of hardware I mean we've seen it until have some weird anomalies like that - but it's but it's it's interesting though because it's becoming harder I think even as someone that works with this stuff every day to try and really pinpoint a use case where you're like oh yeah you would want Intel for this or yeah you'd want AMD for this yeah there's a few places where I can I can make a really firm recommendation like that and then a lot of it does get muddy yeah and the trouble is like I think for a lot of viewers you start watching and a reviewer is is like waffling between the recommendations for our workload I think as a viewer myself of other types of content like other reviews for other industries right you see it I was like okay he's just trying to make sure he doesn't piss off he doesn't piss up a fanboy on one side or the other than a year or whatever yeah but it's really I mean it's just it's actually it's getting difficult to make some recommendation so where I would pinpoint a recommendation is like if you say I'm only running photoshop and photoshop i make money i would probably based on the puget test suite I would probably say an Intel CEO yeah price for fries but AMD comes ahead obviously in things that are entirely thread bound like blender where you have tile based rendering you do maybe 16 by 16 tiles and it'll spawn as many tiles as there are threads and just blow through them a lot of people will reasonably say well but I can use CUDA to do rendering and that's completely a fair statement on the CUDA side of things pewter is definitely useful to accelerate something and something like blender though or a tile-based renderer if you have something that's you don't have a GPU with enough GPU memory in it system memory is easier to come by right and especially now where you can get a $500 3900 X you throw some memory at it and it comes out cheaper than like a Quadro r-tx 5000-series yeah the significant amount yeah so it might be slower but if you run it's a memory capacity issues that could then that's where the discussion it's muddy rikes it comes all the way back around ask you the opportunity cost this time money for you and what you're doing yeah and also where else does that GPU maybe applies where you can maybe argue purchasing that at lower end CPU but yeah I think I would break it down as like let's I guess let's try and draw some it's hard to draw these lines let's draw some the ones that we can okay so gaming performance let's go with gaming first it's kind of easy it's almost always gonna be better on Intel simply because of the core clocks IPC is pretty comparable now but yeah the clock is gives us better average Max and even like 1% lows but that's not true in all games either but I think it's personally my recommendation would be if you're looking at just building a kick-ass gaming machine I would be more inclined to say get a 9700 K overclock that a little bit there were 16 gigs of ram at it and take that extra money and get a better GPU yes you know that's that would be my type of rake and the 97 hard K is cheaper than it used it was like 365 I think when we got viewed the competing name for the 37 was like the price of the 8700 K when it came out so you can see how everything's lit up with the i9 but yeah so that goes yeah the nice innit I I think it for a pure gaming if you're spending that amount of money like 300 ish 3 350 I guess let's call it pure gaming 97 arcade is probably going it is our recommendation that's what we end up recommend right for cheaper budget gaming enough to cut you off on whatever you do right we are not saying that an AMD based system at that same price is not a good gaming champion should let me go off-topic one second here I feel like there's a little bit of if you feel like there's some hesitation and making firm recommendations it's specifically because of the response that we get when we pick a side right and it's it's you kind of have to tiptoe around yeah the the types of comments and try to preempt the comments by addressing all the points that we brought up so AMD is doing really well the CPUs have really good use cases but it's not the best at everything all the time and that's okay it's it's a lot more overlap than it ever was in the past it used to be a lot more cut and dry you need a good value CPU AMD's where you go you're gonna get 80 ish percent of the Intel part right at you know 50% of the price now there's much more overlap in the products act on both sides which is good for the consumer because we're going to see Intel have to respond you did it you did a great piece about the kamek kamek kamek Lake yes where we should comma comically the comment Lake rumors and just that it's completely false don't buy into it some CPU will happen and I will probably have 10 cores right but the stuff you've seen so far is not real it's not a leak it's not a slide it is actually fabricated it is not made by Intel Corporation so I guess if I'm drawing lines you could feel free to to branch off of this but I'm looking at like 3600 r5 3600 for the $200 price point and I'm looking at it's insane what you can get for 200 bucks though today yeah okay let's say three and a half years ago before Rison launched yeah you were still you were still shopping FX CPUs you know seven years after they were launched yeah after that pure gaming I'm looking at 9700 K and then not pure gaming maybe you do streaming and gaming like we were saying I kind of like the 3700 X there and the 3600 you can make it work but you do have to do more tuning so if you're a super budget wanna like start up your streaming channel you don't have much money you can make the 3600 work with effort and like a fuss box can help with that but the 3700 X is where it's easy out of box yeah so 97 our gate 37 our X have you unique use cases and then 9930 900 X is where it's it's a very it dependent scenario but if there's anything I think the takeaway from this is the fact that you have compelling choices on both sides of the fence which was not the case than just a few years ago yeah before eyes and it really I mean in tall yeah in tall was it right and and there was no and there was no there was no compelling reason to go with a dead platform like FX which was still being sold actively yeah and then if you consider the proposition value of buying an X for seventy board with the new the new CPUs and just saying I don't need PCI you for at all there's too many scenarios there's too many options here that that did to dictate what the better part is you know I really feel bad for though you know thread ripper adopters oh driver / yeah because I mean look how much faster a 3900 X is versus 1928 yeah we had someone in our stream the other day who was sad because the 3900 X when it was stock was outperforming his thread upper part yeah my goal with this video was and all my videos cover these topics always is to be able to try and give you some sort of a hard recommendation of like it's this than a if it's less than B and the problem is you can't you can't do that not not completely down up and down a stack there yeah so like I think the biggest thing to take away like we've given some hard recommendations on a few of the parts and and then like you get to top 500 dollar price point area and it becomes it depends and for that I think just like separate yourself from the noise from the noise from the comments or from from the marketing and really sit down and honestly ask yourself what am I doing with this computer right and then look at the benchmarks and if you're like you know I'm like gaming just skip that section don't you look at it yeah and just look at the stuff that matter the productivity stuff yeah well I appreciate you coming on the channel today to try and hopefully answer some questions hopefully I feel like we might have introduced some more questions maybe and maybe a little bit more confusion but I mean I this is gonna take time member right now we're still in the period of which AMD through this all up into the air and it has a quite landed yet right there's still more products coming there's still more maturity we need with the BIOS we might see some significant improvements across the board with BIOS I don't know yet it seems like there's some there's some pretty hard limitations in in the CPU so yeah and I would yeah and also you're gonna see a lot of comments online as as people figure out how the new platform behaves the only ways to like get a couple percent more performance out of it we have one where we we've been down the temperatures by a reasonable amount and you can get more performance out of it like 4% but also at the same time don't get too caught up in that and don't gamble a purchase on the expectation of improvements right this is just like focus on what you need and buy it and then don't feel any buyer's remorse because it doesn't matter yeah the other day if you're happy with the part who cares that's really all there Steve now holds the record I might I'm I might end up with a cracked skull of you throw that alright guys thanks for watching Steve thanks romanika support absolutely um I don't know exactly what we're doing tomorrow we're on the same team are against each other but either way gloves are coming off your house same to you yes all right I'm down sabotage each other is reporting alright guys we'll see you the next one