Gadgetory

seven months ago at CES we had our first meetings with AMD officially were guarding their Xen to Architecture running on seven nanometer FinFET well AMD promised us that it was going to be worth the wait that in q3 of this year we would see amazing improvements over the first generations in architecture well did they deliver Coursera is proud to present their new Hydra X line of custom water cooling products the new XG 5 series radiators offer the perfect balance of finden City and airflow to keep your loop cool and quiet the x3 7 water blocks feature full coverage cooling for GPU while also maintaining an aesthetically pleasing design while the XC 7 and XC 9 cpu blocks keep all your modern cpus nice and cool to see the complete lineup of high directs cooling products from Corsair click the link in the description below you know it's funny when it comes to CPU reviews there's lots of different ways you can do this the problem with CPU reviews is there is a million different ways that you can use a CPU I mean we're talking from basic internet browsing email machines remember the eMachines back in the day they called a machine because it was super cheap and entry-level because you could like go online and write email right it didn't have to be powerful or anything like that but as we've moved forward we've started to see the multi-threaded revolution where programs are starting to use threads over just IPC and core clock and all that sort of stuff and now we see a huge benefit to both multi-threading and hike or clocks seeing 5 gigahertz now on CPUs especially like the 9900 K is nothing special in fact the fact that Intel even came out with the 9900 KS running at 5 gigahertz out of the boxes it's just kind of dumb in my opinion because I've yet to see a 9900 cade I couldn't run if I get your Hertz out of the box so it takes more to really sort of WoW I think the mainstream audience and especially the enthusiast when it comes to CPUs like I said there's there's live streaming there's gaming there's productivity there's work flow there's photoshop there's editing there's so many different things you could be doing with your machine it's very very difficult to find any sort of testing methodology that's gonna sort of touch on all of that so today as we focused specifically on the CPU let's gonna talk about our testbench with this because we have multiple motherboards that were sent for review we're gonna be testing not only the obviously the x5 70 which is the latest PCI Express 4.0 compliant you know utilizes all the features built in to your CPU we tested with the G scale royal trident z memory and and all these great things we're gonna scale it back as we go forward in these reviews we're gonna go and test not such high-end hardware with these CPUs to see how performance scales but for today we used the crosshair hero it's an X 570 we ran 16 gigabytes of Trenton's e memory the royal gold it's just really pretty but it's still trying to Z memory and then we ran a 3900 X and a 3700 X versus kind of a weird lineup I guess our 90 100 K and our 8700 KS so ninth gen and 8th gen the 9900 K is an 8 core 16 thread CPU compared to our 3900 X which is a 12 core 24 thread CPU and we did that for a couple of reasons one they're more directly comparative in pricing if we wanted to do core 4 core we'd have to compare it to an HP DT processor which is a high performance desktop and do something like a 99 20x which is significantly more expensive than the 400 $99 price point of the 3900 X now a 3700 X is being compared to well again the minute 90 100 K and then 8700 really the 8700 for us is just thrown out there one because it's a six core 12 third processor although this is an 8 core 16 thread processor core 4 core this more directly compares to the 90 and 100 K but then when you start comparing pricing it doesn't really line up it's significantly cheaper because remember the 3900 X compares to the Intel's pricing point so what we're seeing here is more core count at a lesser price nothing new though they did that with Zen one the 1800 1800 X in the 1800 series or the thousand series and then the 2000 series we saw the same thing more cores for less money but what we saw then was at IPC although extremely close to Intel was still slightly behind now the 1900 K wasn't out yet then that the seventh gen processor and then the 8th gen processor and the ninth gen processor so we saw slight IPC improvements as time went from Intel although not a lot but still there it meant that the 1,800 X and that 1000 series then fell behind a little bit more an IPC but still gave us a massive improvement over FX which is something that they had promised us and they delivered on that well this time around they're saying not only did we catch up but we passed Intel now when you look at the benchmarks it's one thing to keep in mind here we ran the memory at 21 33 that is base clock for ddr4 now I know a lot of you already are gonna be like what the heck man you know Xen runs better with fast memory and that's because of the Infinity fabric and that all that sort of stuff built into the architecture with a and B but what we tried to do here is give ourselves as fair of a fight as possible we're going to be addressing things like overclocking memory and overclocking Xen 2 and a separate overclocking video to see how that performance scales because one thing we saw with first gen or a thousand series in arisin was that faster the memory the better now they're running a whole new architecture I don't know exactly how that's gonna hold up so we want to do some more testing with that and then we'll include that in our overclocking guide for Xen 2 because overclocking your memory is always a part of what we're clocking your CPU so that's why you're not going to see that that's why you're seeing 2130 300 megahertz speeds we also ran everything out of the box with the exception of one test you're gonna see a Cinebench r15 result not our 20 our 15 because we've got previous CPUs that have run it we can kind of see where it stacks up but because we want to get single core performance to see how I pcs have really held up and what we did was we locked both of the CPUs well I'm pointing at these two the 9900 K at 4 gigahertz versus the 3900 X at 4 gigahertz and yes we are well aware that that's gimping the 9900 K but it's also gimping this guy because it would run up to 4.6 gigahertz on single core so we just wanted an arbitrary number that locked them where we could get a comparison there on IPC and remember whatever that performance difference is as the clock speed increase increases the IPC difference and the score difference would be approximately the same percentage difference if the 3900 X is beating it and then you speed it up and the clock stay the same the difference just it kind of does it widens as it goes it's a percentage Delta so that's how percentages work the higher percentage no okay whatever here are the church when it comes to CPU usage you're gonna see obviously there are some synthetic benchmarks in there like Geekbench and blender and Cinebench and stuff like that those what they give us is a bit of control because it's extremely consistent between runs so what we're looking for here is not so much what the actual score was but with the difference between the CPUs are because that gives us a some sort of a metric to compare so that's how you should be looking at that the real world world tests gonna be things like the premier export or the warp stabilized and Gaming is something where I'll talk about in a separate video because this video could be an hour and 45 minutes long easy if we talked about everything a CPU can do and how they compare so we just kind of kept it as simple as possible here because what we really want to do here right now is we sort of want to do a checks and balances when it comes to AMD's claims on how these CPUs perform versus you know the real-world experience and what we're getting because as we always preach take the actual marketing material from any brand with a grain of salt because they're always gonna present the best possible numbers because that's how marketing works in fact gamers Nexus did a great piece showing why you would never use the slow setting on an OBS livestream or capture or whatever because it's just unrealistic and the performance difference was really in proportionate to the quality difference in fact in a blind taste test as I showed you could even tell the difference between fastest and slow versus the actual render quality it was nothing more than a test to show that the horsepower of the multi-threading of the CPU and AMD slide was was very very good it was Impractical to use that and say that the 1900 was bad so that's the kind of stuff we're looking for in these types of tests we also did as you guys saw a single-core IPC test using cinnamon ar-15 and spoiler alert the knight 3900 X which is the same architecture it's in the 3700 X and all that beat the 9900 Ches IPC so that is HUGE because that is not something that is necessarily promised to us but it's something that we saw and in multi-threaded performance it makes no no surprise at the 39 hundred X is just running rings around the no no no okay because it has 24 threads versus sixteen so that is where the CPU reviews start to become difficult to kind of give us direct comparisons is comparing it to what so we chose price point and at the $499 price point give or take twenty or twenty or so bucks depending on sales that's what the 1900 K costs and this was giving us better results in single thread as well as multi thread so when it comes to premiere export we used a four and a half minute 4k h.264 100 Mbps video that we did has a full color grade on it plus a small montage and we use the built-in YouTube 1080p preset now you might be asking yourself J why did you go from 4k to 1080p footage like this and we're changing its scale and using maximum render we're putting max load on the CPU so we want to see how the CPUs handle that sort of rescaling and transcoding so that we could see which did a better job of if we went from 4k to 4k there's a lot less load on the CPU we wanted the CPU to really be taxed in this test it's not a realistic thing for us to go from 4k to 1080p but that's besides the point but that was maximum render quality software encoding using the mercury encoder and we are the mercury playback engine no GPU on either the AMD or the Intel and no I GPU on the Intel whatsoever so this is just CPU cores now the 900k took 22 minutes and 19 seconds whereas the 3900 X took 19 minutes and 56 seconds so it's kind of interesting to see that they were fairly close although this had many more course a lot of that still comes to the fact that the premiere software definitely favors core clock as well as multi-threaded so it's one of those things that we're gonna look at is we overclock this in the future to see if we can get that number down and the gap to be you know kind of reminiscent and linear with the core count of the CPUs but we know for a fact premiere loves core clock and 4.8 ish on all cores on the 900 K which is kind of where it goes to by itself versus just over 4 gigahertz on all cores on the 39 X so the 900k was 800 ish megahertz faster but still lost to this running significantly slower but with more core so that's something we're talking about now if you've ever had to do any sort of warp stabilized fixing or processing inside a premier you know depending on the length of the clip it could be significantly taxing not only to your system but time-consuming so the faster that process can be done the better it is for your real world scenario so the 99 100k performed that 10-second fork h.264 100 Mbps video with no effects or any of that we saw 2 minutes and 22 seconds to process a 10-second clip and that's because warp stabilized is more so a single-threaded function so it doesn't completely tax your system you can still do other background tests and other things while that's happening so this is more indicative of that single core kind of an IPC thing where the 3900 X performed it in two minutes in 15 seconds so although faster once again with a slower clock speed if we get the clock speeds up on the 3900 X then we'll see an improvement to that score as well so something that's one of the reasons why warp stabilizes is in this test is because it's kind of indicative again of that single-threaded performance now let's go ahead and talk about Geekbench again they use a single core and then multi-core so in the multi-core the 3900 X just obliterated the 9900 Kay 31,000 667 for the Intel I nine part versus the 3900 X is forty-three thousand nine hundred and sixty when it comes to the blender BMV MW test the lower the number the better the 900 can two hundred nine seconds versus 153 seconds for the AMD part what about the IPC comparison directly well you guys saw in the charts there we had a better IPC performance at four gigahertz on the 3100 X versus the 9900 K so that tells us the amount of work that that CPU is capable of doing the amount of instructions per clock is higher on this versus the Intel part so that means that this whole time that Intel has just kind of been sitting back like yeah yeah okay whatever and AMD's just kind of been spending the last few years just refining refining refining which is what they promised the community they've actually delivered on that promise okay but Jay if I pcs better on the 3900 X Y is the 3700 X which is the same core count and thread count as an N a 100k losing in many of the tests well that comes all the way down to clock speeds so that is where AMD is still kind of lagging behind Intel's the fact that Intel and again we have not to overclock these we have not done any overclocked testing so we still have to spend time with that to see how overclockable these are Intel a still superior in the all core clock speed they are allowing and I keep doing this to think it's Intel but I'm in my mind I've got Intel and AMD here sorry until doesn't give us retail boxes we don't have one I can put a cardboard box here that's kind of what they send them to us in but actually that's what they send the CPUs to I said they don't even care enough for the reviewers to actually give us pretty boxes so that's their there's Intel well one could argue that the 3700 X price point of 329 dollars being only a handful of percentage points behind the 9900 case 400 and what 84 dollars is the best price we could find it for in amazon 480 $4.99 that is a 150 dollar price difference between the two so I'm the kind of shopper that would go well if I can get basically all the performance from then in 100k as soon as I turn up the dial on this a little bit with overclocking you know me and have a hundred and fifty bucks to now put towards a better GPU or more RAM or heck more storage or pay for a part entirely like my case that's the better buy and I am confident that as soon as we start overclocking these CPUs that we are going to see them catch and exceed than 9900 K but none in 100 KS fairly high strung as it is out of the box because it'll go for 8 for 9 all cores but going above 5 1 is difficult you can get 5 1 5 2 on water once you start chilling it but day to day you're going to be pushing enough voltage in that to where you're gonna be degrading your CPU over time and I would not trust running and then I drew K at 5.2 every single day in fact getting above 5 2 was very difficult when we were doing our overclocked testing on that 5 gigahertz is easy v 1.is depending on your lottery in 5 to above is just so you don't have a lot of room to play with on a 90 100 K so if a 9900 is already showing basically all of its potential and this is only a couple of percent behind it and more even multi-threaded performance and we still have a lot of overclocking Headroom into this or on this then that makes this obviously the better buy but what AMD has done here it's delivered on the IPC promise it has delivered on the multi-threaded promise and now that we know that things like games and your productivity programs are certainly leveraging multi-threading or multi-core you know availability then that only makes this the better buy now where the real story is on this and I really can't wait to get my hands on this are the r5 and r3 models because the r3 model coming later we know that the 3400 G and the 3200 G are still gonna be using Vega part but you know as well as I do as soon as those parts get refreshed probably later on this year and this is all hypothetical I have no information right here is that it's going to be utilizing the new Radeon 5700 XT architectures or whatever they're calling it Navi is gonna be using the new navigator textures and that making that a significant budget system when it comes to performance you're gonna get amazing performance out of it without even had to buy GPU because that's exactly what the Omega part did for the 2420 200g but J what if I've already got like a be 350 motherboard or a next 370 I mean back when first Rison came out well AMD made a promise that that was gonna be a five year socket the best socket would be completely usable and valid for five years Allah Intel likes to change the socket up just by a couple of pins sometimes so that you have to buy a new motherboard for a new CPU or the architecture demanded a different pin count which means you need a different motherboard no backwards compatibility we saw a couple generations where you could use the new CPU with an old one but you lost various functionality the AMD Zen 2 architecture is backwards compatible all the way back to first gen Rison so you could be using your X 370 or your be 350 motherboard and you can still use the modern CPUs and they will work just fine with nothing more than a BIOS update the only thing you're gonna give up quite honestly and I asked AMD this point-blank in our meeting what do you lose all you lose is that PCI you four we already know that PCI 3 is not being saturated by graphics cards yet so we know it's not necessarily for PCI you for although the new Radeon stuff does a PCI you've already unless you're using crazy fast storage drives using PCI Express that's probably a feature that you're not gonna care about buying a new motherboard for so unless you care about any of that sort of stuff you could take a new Zen to CPU and plop it in your old motherboard with a BIOS update update it first before you get the new CPU so you're not swatching swapping your CPU twice to do it it's completely backwards compatible with motherboards so AMD has promised us forward support with the CPU socket IPC improvements and bringing the fight back to the consumer the mainstream and enthusiast CPU market well I feel like AMD has delivered on all three of those this is simply a case of not being enough competition in the market and became complacent and didn't really feel the need to innovate well you don't innovate you stagnate and that's exactly what's happened to Intel although Intel is still a great performing cpu it costs more and gives you nothing extra for it so this is where you guys sound off in the comments below did intel fall behind or did AMD promise and over deliver I kind of feel inclined to say that they kept all their promises but sort of kept it quiet about how far they've really come so that we would all go holy crap rather than potentially over promise and under deliver this is kind of the opposite so you guys sound off in the comments below coming forward on this channel there's a lot of discussion to happen here we're gonna talk about backwards compatibility of those motherboards which I just mentioned we're gonna do testing and compare it to these results to see if you truly lose anything we're also going to be doing a complete overclocking guide for Zen 2 and we're also going to be doing I don't think I'll do any crazy custom cooling but we're gonna be just testing obviously gaming performance and that sort of stuff because I know someone's already typed it and if it's you okay fine you've already typed it yeah but Intel so much better at gaming well that was because Intel was superior in IPC so as long as we get the clock speeds up where we want them or even with current based clock speeds I don't think that's necessarily true anymore we got to do a video to prove it all right guys thanks for watching and as always we'll see you in the next