Gadgetory

okay I'm I'm still hardly terrible this is Matt's good posture and everything yes keep things shoulders bass crash oh I should probably meet this I always feel like I have worst posture when I tried to have good posture like I feel awkward I feel like a robot or I feel like I look too stiff I feel like I feel like there's times when I've been sitting at a computer like what like what I was doing and doing here like 15 minutes ago uh-huh oh yes realized you're like how'd you do it really trying to get something done I was like like I was like trying to frame the camera like Paul substrate and I'd like reframing a transport yeah but sorry hello everyone welcome hi twitch viewers hello YouTube viewers this is awesome hardware it's a live show we talk about technology and my stream every Tuesday evening at 5:30 p.m. Pacific time to twitch.tv slash awesome hardware and at the very same time we also stream to YouTube right now you're watching the first half of episode number 165 on my channel pulse hardware and in maybe 30 40 minutes we will switch over to Cal's half bit whit this is a special show for a couple different reasons one we both been traveling we actually just flew back today from New York I haven't even been home yet I came straight here to the studio so I can do live show and make more content I have been home either also we both we both came straight here second thing reason it's a special show is because it's Kyle's birthday it is Kyle's birthday happy birthday pal I thank you Paul I'm the big three oh yeah thirty I know thirty thirty I know I don't look a day over 21 it's true so I imagine you're probably gonna be hitting the sauce pretty hard this evening that actually I think last night was my last hoorah last night was I I got I got way too hammered Oh to be fair we did see some old friends and in the industry it's definitely I got to celebrate with them hanging out sometimes but it was too much celebration there were too many good times which led to a bunch of bad times just a series of bad times this morning and then this afternoon and then even into the evening I won't go into gross detail to spare all of you but down they say two wrongs don't make a right but too many good times can lead to the bad time that's absolutely true it's probably word words of wisdom that you learn after you turn 30 yeah yeah I mean I'm older than 30 yeah yeah super wise so everyone happy birthday to Kyle and also we're not gonna be drinking quite as much today also to celebrate Kyle's birthday the second half of the show and his switch to his channel is going to be the after party yes so that'll be fun so if you guys are asking questions it's all I can handle on YouTube chat or anything will answer them there and we'll also go over people who have bought stuff on our stores speaking of our stores check out our stores and buy stuff - Fiona buy stuff it's really nice and good and help support us in you get merchandise and it's super cool bit wit dot tex lash stores Cal store shown right here now available heather gray CPU cooler lightweight hoodies and flash bios t-shirts such as this one right here yeah a late weight that is sexy my store is pulsar Burnett I don't have any new stuff right now but I am working on some new stuff so that's all I have to say about that I got to see you sneak peek it looks good yeah yeah I show Kyle so improve yeah we're gonna we're gonna try to have a few more merch options for you coming up in these months leading up to the holidays it's obviously I'm gonna capitalize on people spending money oh yeah but yeah thanks all you guys who helped support our stores and we're gonna dive right into the news if you guys are wondering why we're in we were in New York we were actually invited there by Intel because they held an event yesterday where they officially formally announced their new series of desktop processors actually announced a little bit more than we were I think initially expecting them to announce although it makes sense like the 28 core thing the 31 75 WX right yeah like that that's the one that they teased at Computex running at 5 gigahertz but didn't show the cooling unit that was using at the time and that became a big controversy more on controversies in just a few minutes but they promised that by the end of the year so I was kind of think you know if that's coming out by the end of the year they're gonna need to talk about a little bit and yes they did they at least gave a little bit of info on that keep going we're saying it's slightly out of focus I'm a mouse in the wrong place which makes this challenging also I have not clicked on any of these stories to bring up and discuss which I should I should usually I have this done before well anyway as far as their announcements on the mainstream side we have three new processors coming out and we also have a new series of motherboards good news the motherboards which is e 390 chipset are still the same LGA 1151 socket and they are still going to be backwards and forwards compatible with last gen8 8000 series processors the coffee-like original copy like yes and now we have copy like refresh I guess is what the 9000 processors are thinking so jet of AMD's books yes so if you have a Z 370 motherboard and this is well this will be up to your motherboard manufacturer but we from our understanding most of the Z 370 motherboards will have BIOS updates that will allow you to slot in these new processors and of course if you buy one of these new motherboards they're backwards compatible with 8000 series processors and who knows in 8700 K on discount might be a reasonable comparison to something like a 9700 K because the 9600 K and 9700 K do not have hyper threading that's true and even though even though they're I 7 parts so it'll be cool to compare those to the 8700 k 8600 k so links to stuff we're talking about as far as articles that we're looking at are all done in the description if you guys want to follow along also our wonderful moderator cell frequently post those in chat so thanks to excel for doing that thanks for moderating our stuff - there's a look at the retail packaging we kind of teased this in the live show last week because there was a retail retail listing that went out for it but we were actually able to see it there I didn't get close up and hands-on with it but um it I mean it looks it looks fancier than their packaging they had done before so this is clearly a response to AMD who has gotten fancier with their packaging for like their thread Ripper processors and stuff so Intel wants us to stand out and so on and so forth so there's the hyper starting thing although the 9900 case go Duke to five gigahertz if we're looking strictly this is a long article I'm trying to get him trying to get down to the that's the whole event right there there it is all right here's the three new processors so the 9900 K is eight cores and 16 threads and the price and this is the price for a thousand of them by the way is four hundred and eighty-eight dollars not a thousand four 488 yeah if you buy a thousand but if you buy a thousand four 488 for each processor four hundred eighty eight thousand dollars so if you had four hundred eighty eight thousand dollars you can buy a thousand of them at this price what a saving the actual pre-sales which are up now which we're not recommending anybody do don't don't buy don't pre-order these they're selling for like five hundred and twenty five hundred and twenty five I think the pre-orders and Newegg we're going for more you buy the more you save though that's that's but taking away from this quote Jensen mister gen 9700 k-8 core 8 thread again 374 dollars it's gonna be a big a big question as far as the existing 6-quart well thread processors versus an eight core a thread processor yeah which which do you go with there our expectation when it comes to performance of these is that they will be better because they are faster intel has switched to soldered Tim they're calling it stim which reminds me of a simple I can like it start Starcraft and almost at start with my name i soldered tim which which they which is right because they they gave us this presentation and they're like we have this new soldered thermal interface material that's not new like remember the 2500 k you know the center k those are really good overclockers because they had they were soldered and they really good temperature you so yeah it's something that they phased out for cost purposes it created a whole market of deleting and stuff but i'd rather they just came soldered yeah of course they're probably still gonna people be people who delayed and like test the solder to be like make sure that's really good solder but um it seems like it will be because the chips are already reaching reaching much higher clock speeds beyond though new skews though we also have a high-end desktop refresh coming at you as well these will apparently slot into existing X 399 I'm sorry X 299 motherboards so Intel's current high-end desktop platform we just have a whole new set of processors there is the picture of a slide showing all of them you know Intel set sent out the slideshow yesterday so you can probably get a PC where it should update this with high resolution but they do it they did list all the prices they're still very expensive it still only goes up to 18 core 36 thread these are probably really just the same the same processors they're just soldered and so they're gonna air clocks gonna have higher clock speeds we did so again the other thing about this is that they didn't seem to post it to have any launch date for these strikes again they didn't seem devonee's set launch date for these the for the 28 core which is going to be on a super high-end platform which is going to be used these motherboards LG at 36 47 and we already got a brief look at this one at Computex this was what they ran that demo on as far as we can tell it looks pretty much exactly the same builds lloyd did a breakdown of this where he talked about the power delivery and everything back at the Computex time period this one is from asus and it is a completely new line because they're calling it the rog dominus extreme if you wanted to have a criticism right out of the gate it would probably be something along the lines of rog as republic of gamers and until it was clearly listening these not they're clearly trying to differentiate these from the gaming oriented or even the cross like multi-use like like the high-end desktop X 299 stuff is is supposed to be create for creators you know a multi-use you can use it for gaming you can also use it for the stuff that all the all the core high court count is used useful for so this one is actually like ROG but it's it's still this crazy massive motherboard dual eight pin power can dual eight pain power connectors plus the six pin on either side that's for eight-penny PS plus a pin on either side of that there's another six pin tucked in right down here on the bottom which is probably for the PCIe lanes dual 24-pin power connectors look I love like all these banks of like fan headers and there's like a crap ton more down here this is a pretty insane board when you look at everything that's in it I'm not sure what the what the form factor is it's probably like SSI CEB or one of these one of those server form factors but obviously these CPUs since they will be unlocked for overclocking are probably going to be capable of pulling just massive massive amounts of power because already with like the 18 core overclocked you know you can get up to where you're drawing six seven hundred Watts just from the CPU I bet we're gonna see a huge spike in sales for those fantex power combos oh yeah the high end high embarrassed why I don't let you analyze to to connect to a single system yeah so anyway that's the Dominus extreme that is for the 31 75 W which is an unlock Zeon they're still calling it Zeon they haven't set a price for that we were speculating what the price might be it seems like they have confirmed that it's probably going to be sub $5,000 which is cool because the twenty eight cores Ian sells for like eight to ten grand so if you look at it that way that's a that's a it's good that it's it's good that it's less than five thousand I guess I'm not pricing yeah that that cheaper pricing and the fact that we're getting an rog board here makes it seem like this Xeon in particular is like kind of a stopgap between the high end desktop platforming like the the true Zeon's and stuff yeah but we'll see yeah so that's that's kind of cool the W 3175 x come in come in in december so i have no idea if they will do any sampling for that or anything that boards well but getting back to the the more reasonable LGA 2066 ii here's the whole products that going from about two grand all the way down to $600 for a 9800 X the thing I really liked about this product stack that they listed was you'll notice it stops at eight core eight core sixteen thread they did not attempt to redo 77 yeah 77 40 I don't even remember I think they stupid quad-core that they put on the high-end desktop platform which was not a good present because then the 9900 Cawood would beat it out yeah most definitely beyond all them processors of course is the new motherboards of this ether 90 chipset and those are primarily bringing the Z 370 chipset up to speed because the Z 370 chipset and in my opinion a lot of the reviewers opinions was rushed didn't include the next-gen features such as 802 that 11 AC Wi-Fi and USB 3.1 gen2 Z 390 supports 6 3.1 gen2 connections 10 USB 3.0 support for 6 gen 2 USB 3.1 connections ok 10 Gen 1 USB 3.1 lanes I that's Gen 1 all right that's that's USB 3 and then also until 8 o 2.11 AC Wi-Fi so let's USB connectivity so that's cool also still maintains the same PCIe connectivity Intel still likes to put that there's 40 PCIe lanes available on this main stream platform which excuse me sorry I still find to be fairly misleading interest one 24 of those PCIe lanes come from the PCH the platform actual hub which is part of the chipset and that's basically a switch what you really have on the CPU is 16 lanes for your PCI Express slots that can be divided into different ways and those all can also often be routed over to like MDOT two slots for direct connection and then the PCH which is really for PCIe lanes multiplexed out to 24 so it's not like you have 24 more PCIe lanes you can't use them all simultaneously same time you can use them to connect up a bunch of different devices but for instance like I did them boxing of the msi z3 90 Meg god-like motherboard and that has three MDOT two slots on it including a riser card they give you for two more m2 slots and as well as I think a u dot two and it's just like you know you're gonna there's a trade-off there you're not going to be able to use like SLI or or envy link and then also all those I'm about to you have to pick and choose if you really want that much connectivity you gotta go up to the high end but controversy right we always when every time it seems like we go to some of these events these days like Steve's from gamers Nexus gets really pissed off at something and there's controversy now to be fair it's not always Steve but there's just there are always seems to be something that comes up and it wasn't until kind of later last night that an article was published by PC games end comm and we've referenced some of their articles here before I'm not familiar with any of the actual people who or who write for PC games and but they picked up a some information that was shared on an Intel blog post on the Intel newsroom blog where they post stuff about Intel and this was about a set of benchmarks that were published yesterday on the Intel newsroom blog and these benchmarks were commissioned by Intel to be run by an independent third party who but they were they were paid and help paid them to run these sets of benchmarks and the third party is called principled technologies which is a company based in Durham North Carolina according to their website they are an industry-leading technology assessment fact-based marketing services hands-on testing of technology products deliver the facts testing reports and videos that's from their website metadata so that's why it's not actually a complete sentence but I'm point being I started getting into a little bit of conversation last night was tonight with Steve from gamers Nexus as well as Steve from Hardware unbox this was first brought to my attention by Steve from Hardware unboxed and there is an article on tech spot that he wrote that goes over this there's also a video on this that he published and it's essentially taking a close look at these benchmarks that were posted by by Principal technologies I should point out the PC games end has since updated their article on this and they have included some of Steve's information from it and his article about their testing methodology and and there's multiple reasons why this is something that we as reviewers are not super excited about but also a lot of people who were following the this the launch and this news in general aren't really stoked on either double-whammy lots of reasons so we're not happy because of course this was commissioned and paid for by Intel and it's comparing ninety nine hundred K performance to a bunch of different other processors this is the actual PDF that they published from principal technologies on the plus side they're very thorough about their testing methodology on the minus side that has allowed both the both of our Steve's and quite a few others of us who were sort of disgusting this over the last night and stuff to sort of point out a lot of the shortcomings now they tested the 2950 WX the twenty nine ninety WX and the twenty seven hundred X from the AMD side and they compared that to the ninety nine hundred K the new eight core sixteen thread processor and also the eighty seven or decay 8086 X as well as the ninety nine eighty XE which isn't coming out for probably another one to two months ninety nine hundred X and then they go through a bunch of different games something like 19 games tested they're all listed here including Warhammer csgo sub 6 GTA 5 and then there's just there's a very long list of numbers here that they have published now looking at it from a reviewers perspective we are we are under NDA we can say that now because the initial announcement has happened and we are probably going to be receiving processors that we will test and you know make some sort of video content about or written the written guys will do written content about and publish we we can't publish that information for another like nine ten days this information is out there and you know anyone who reads this information some people are more savvy than others some people might read this information and just accept it and be like wow that's pretty nice other people might um you know with a little bit more skepticism but for instance the article published by PC games and headline was did it say Intel's car I $9.99 hundred K is up to 50% faster than AMD's risin 7 2,700 X and games which is that's so much sleep that's yeah irresponsible and I don't so hold on I'm gonna I'm gonna quickly linky over here ah all right so now the headline has been updated - so good on you PC games then for updating this which is what they should have done sure now the initial article was somewhat misleading - again this really isn't about PC games n-no this is this is more about this is more about the actual commissioned report and that sort of thing so don't want it's well on that but yeah so people have this and have a very limited amount of information when it comes to actual benchmarks that have been published because most people aren't allowed to publish them and this information is obviously clearly misleading other stuff that's been pointed up by Steve and others the 2700 X in their tests was tested with the stock Wraiths cooler whereas all the other CPUs and the tests were tested with a Noctua and HD 14s which is an aftermarket cooler which it's not not good I think testing methodology they've used varying motherboard brands and often between very motherboard brands when it comes to stuff like memory timings stuff can change from platform to platform that's some weird configurations like where they were throwing 64 gigs at certain certain test beds at 8 different test beds running the ran according to them they did all of this testing on October 4th on a single day which is possible if you're running multiple test beds for running multiple test beds introduces additional variants into the tests which makes them less reliable unless you're running many many many tests other things were they reference the median results instead of the the average of the mean which is sort of a strange thing average is taking all the results and then multiplying them by the number of the results the median is is taking the number of the results in choosing the middle one yeah which is not an average which is useful for certain things but not it's definitely not the typical way that the PC bench PC gaming game benchmarking goes they also use Final Fantasy 15 which has been pointed out by many people to be not a good benchmark for varying reasons you you not Ubisoft who develops novel fancy anyway the developer came out in the Britax yeah Square Enix they came out and apologized for it referencing the gta5 methodology because they again they're very specific with their methodology which I do appreciate they went into every game and said not just the settings they use but like how they did the settings but that points to a possibility of GTA 5 settings changing between Hardware swaps because GTA 5 is really annoying at doing that also and this is a little bit more recent Steve's so Steve posted his oh wait now Steve from gamer from Hardware from Hardware unboxed posted his original video going over all this stuff and when a like one of the most damning things in this entire thing is probably going to be the ashes of the singularity test right here because you can see they're paid result for the 8700 K getting about 49 fps and then you can see Steve's test for the rise in 720 700 X getting around 45 46 their tests getting around 38 that's it that's a pretty significant drop-off and this is actually the test that was referenced in that article headline saying that it's 50% faster Steve actually followed up after he got some feedback from people post and after posting that initial video saying that the article also demonstrates that they used game mode and rise in master software if you're not familiar with what game mode does games are very latency sensitive sensitive and Rison processors both the mainstream as well as a thread ripper that's one of their weak points because they have main rise and processors have to CC X units each one of those has four cores and there's some latency between those turning on game mode turns off one of those so it improves latency but if it's a game that would have used more than four cores or more than a three then you could potentially lose performance so Steve button retested and that's what the orange line here is and this is on their patreon which I guess I can view for free and it says Steve I pay you money to pay Triana and he found that the performance was even worse when you have game mode on so again just just seems to be lots of points of contention with their testing methodology and you know what if it was day of launch right now and everyone was posting their results right no one would even notice this yeah but the fact that Intel published it on their blog and and the fact that it was commissioned by them and the fact that it is really the only like pretty thorough set of benchmarks that you can actually look at right now that are that are legitimate as far as they are benchmarks that were run not like somebody saying like hey I've found this test that was uploaded to the 3dmark database that has a nun you know unknown hardware so you know you know like that like the leaked benchmarks it is they are real benchmarks and some degree and the fact that this released when pre-orders are available some people like that sexual real damage that's people now giving money to Intel based on this singular paid result yes which like Paul said can't be refuted I don't think it I don't even think it'd be a big deal if like pre-orders weren't open right now because people would just look at this and there's no action to be taken from it you know so shaving so really if you guys were not in the loop as far as the scandal with this launch announcement this is pretty much it and you know I it's stuff like this I feel like has happened before to some degree but I don't know I I don't know too much about about the principled technologies company but a few people who I asked about it said the day they actually used to work for and they've done work for AMD before in the past but now they often exclusively work for Intel they've done other stuff too though because I even just recently looked up and they had like a video they did with Dell so they work with various companies and I'm sure the people there have the I'm sure they're like good people like morally and ethically and everything internally but doesn't eat bench markers yeah yeah so other things to point out that there's disclaimers at the end of the article specifically disclaiming them of any what liability you know that these numbers might be accurate and accurate anything then what at the end and I feel like I've seen this language before it says software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel micro processors I feel like I've seen that exact language before it seems pretty like oh so you mean this whole set of benchmark tests that you run and then that's very end oh and by the way all the software was optimized for the team that paid us yeah true to form true to form Steve from gamers Nexus has also posted a video titled Intel's gross gross incompetence super III watched this earlier today as I was kind of preparing for the show Steve filmed this last night after he flew home and Steve and I know you're watching now but you seem a little loopy in this video well he's a little loopy he gets he gets exasperated though and and and and that's fun and stuff so fired up passion now something else that when I oh look I'm created getting Steve freeze frames drooping his face down that's like his face is melting he's melting his face with his fingers that's what it looks like great keep doing it I mean can you just print skin really quick somebody some twitch clip it yeah but we we have some I don't know if this is exclusive or not we're so we're supposed to get Steve on the phone here at some point oh he's watching right now so cool hey Steve we're gonna call Steve in just a minute here because he actually went and visited them today the the principle technologies place because he's in North Carolina industry they're in North Carolina he went in and visited them so we're gonna talk to him in just a minute here once I saved this screenshot so he's going to give us I'm guessing something like a preview of his interaction with them yeah his interview with them so and let me let me double check if they have actually posted this yes yet they did a full interview with them and they are gonna post the whole thing on uncut but it's probably it's probably still uploading like right now so we'll give a little but you guys will get a little bit of a preview as we hopefully get Steve on the phone here and he does say he's watching so let me give let me give him a call Steve Burke of gamers Nexus friend of the show yep I should probably put this on speaker - all right what if you go ahead no administers - straight to voicemail shoot Steve yes hi Steve it's Paul and Kyle and Kyle good how are you guys in chat if you it is Kyle's Bert something like that did you want to say anything you have a special birthday message thank you Steve hold on I need to update this I made a special lower thirds just for Steve that's why we were like 20 minutes late just for that behold behold our great Network all right so so Steve obviously you're gonna you're gonna be posting it full uncut you said footage of your discussion with principal technologies about this about this report that they published I guess are there any highlights or like Kenny can you walk us through the experience they had there any watched your video so yeah I mean I kind of had that same sort of mixed feelings going over the PDF about it because like I mentioned a few times like they were pretty thorough in going over what they did and not everyone does that and and I feel like they they could have potentially obfuscated that more but then there's also the question of like they're commissioned to do this for Intel like is do they have to do to be that thorough to protect themselves in case of like I have no idea if there are any like SEC rules about this type of thing or anything like that but the thought has crossed my mind oh yeah yeah that's I think that's the first I think that's still the first image that pops up on Google Images if she I think now we're Paul and I are both terrified of your next video featuring either of us because I don't want to see like what thumbnail you it's a screaming cabbing Jeff from 2016 I think a mode while it benefits Red River where some games Donnie would run with 64 or 32 everybody thread it actually goes on benefit there are 27 acknowledged their research and more students realize they should not have enabled game mode for the nonce Red River cards yeah make it a factory it ok talk about deadlines and having to publish at some point but you're finished will be as accurate as Academy are you should be cutting stuff out in are confident in it yeah did he ever mention like what might be done with with the current report now that they've sort of admitted that some things could have been tested a lot more accurately ask why are you down we asked what are the goals we're using these settings there were a couple of moments where I had kind of cornered the co-founder with questions for example so I use the Nhu 14 answer is positive the jaws use up its credit for just when I said okay that's not compatible with [Laughter] so I feel like the if the upshot here is that it seems like like a and and to be fair anyone who does reviews and anyone who does benchmarking of PC hardware in this way like there's there's the basics and then there's all there's all of the nuances there's all of the little details and there's if you want to have accurate tests comparing one product to another you really need to have a good handle on all of those little details and all of the tiny things that might change the outcome of testing results and I feel like lots of people go through that because you know I I still learn things every time I go and do a set of testing but somebody who is kind of like the flagship first publication like authorized by Intel probably shouldn't be shouldn't have that level of potential very answered or things that weren't done properly when you're comparing against alright well Steve we're gonna let you go I think we need to switch over to second half of the show pretty quick here but thank you very much for joining us thank you sir and hopefully ya see it the next next big event with the scandal at the end of it okay cool all right guys that was Steve subscribe gamers Lexus yeah gave us that interview it's gonna be sweet gamers nexus net as a website for written stuff and then gamers Nexus of course on YouTube too alright that's pretty much all I got from my half of the show guys again we're gonna jump to kyle staff oh wait no we have we have one other thing we need to do really quick oh yes can't forget that where you go we we need this is a job we didn't even need money so occasionally money occasionally we'll do a sponsor spot today's sponsor spot is brought to you by Toshiba specifically her SSDs we've got the OC OC Z which is the sort of sub brand here TR 200 just a standard two and a half inch SATA base to say the Rev three very reliable very dependable pretty much standard SATA 3 base speeds normally the box isn't squished like this but I had to travel with a GPS actually that like the Box when I got the that I got these in there Toshiba sent them over to me so we could have them for our sponsor spot and like the box was mangled I suppose because I actually took pictures of it before I open it because I was worried this stuff had had come out I wasn't gonna have everything that was in there damn anyway this is all based on their BICS flash memory which is both fast and also inexpensive or relatively inexpensive so you will find these SSDs based on that technology to be a nice variance of both of those they also the super tiny little guy right there RC 100 RC 100 and then up to 480 capacity in just this tiny channel m dot 222 was at 22 42 oh yeah yeah 22:42 yeah so for a very smart small form-factor builds something like that it's also the XS 700 which is in a external SSD with USB type-c as well as USB 3.1 gen2 support gives you lots of bandwidth rock paper scissors to see who keeps that one indeed I can always use external storage and then of course standard 2.5 inch SSDs available in the TR 200 series so check out Toshiba the isis BICS flash-based SSDs I'm gonna add links to all that in my description and within like the next five minutes or so yeah I mean I'm gonna probably detect it there you just copy my for sure for sure me too dad alright and that is gonna wrap it up for my half of the show so thank you guys so much for watching the first half of Austin Hardware up so 165 thanks again to our special guest Steve from gamers Nexus ready cut this off there is a link in the description to kyle staff of the show there should be yes I don't know do that did I do that properly I don't know did you yeah it looks like you did no that's oh that's that's a different episode I might've you just go to my channel it'll be there yeah hey Rocky ruff Easter thanks for watching guys we'll be right back