Gadgetory

Aloha Mahalo and welcome to episode 335 of the weekly brought to you by PocketNow and xda-developers recorded on Hawaii time I wish I could put the camera that way cuz you could you should see what what is in front of us Venus in front of us yeah on Thursday yes Thursday the 6th of December 2018 all of us all three of us are here for the Qualcomm Snapdragon Tech Summit and we've got quite the many takeaways on mobile computing artificial intelligence and the buzzword that won't die 5g am I am of course your host of the bacchanal weekly it's Josh or Vergara what's going on everybody and we have the host of the PocketNow daily of course we have I made event here and helping me flank Jaime right now with our floral patterned Hawaiian shirts most of the David Amell daily cuz I'm myself every day yes yes of the year we have David Amell of course you know I'm from Android authority um and if you don't already follow them on Instagram Twitter and whatnot make sure you do so please do use the master photography isn't great yeah you have a lot of photos from Hawaii or I have pictures from the boat it's been a dope three days already right like we today is the last day of the tech so I mean we finally got our final announcement today and we're all gonna go out and go to a luau hence why the shirts but it's yeah I mean Hawaii you couldn't say more good things about it honestly why don't we get the gift today stuff out of the way that way it cuz it's fresh in our minds right so the Snapdragon 800 then I was briefed on that processor I was like yo like this is a lot like it's the largest processor Qualcomm has ended their whole like they're they're like you know what we should not follow the phone approach to the computer let's do this backwards let's actually create a monster enough a mobile processor but for a computer so there are no size constraints to the the size of the dye and it's still 7 nanometre they've built them the biggest GPU that they've ever made but in addition they're also providing multi gigabit LTE they're providing 5g support whenever that happens because we have to mention 5g as well of course gggggg and it's just wow like from like at least from everything they showed on paper what is it the Intel Y processors are the use that they made a comparison was really you use them so they use are actually better but the thing about it is like they they share wine better than it was and they showed that the performance on this processor without a fan could over like significantly overpower these you processors from Intel and obviously the architecture is far beyond that 7 nanometre yeah yeah Intel's been stuck at 14 for a long time yeah that was the thing uh all of the presentations this week it felt like there was just a little bit of shade being thrown yeah at all sigh yeah every day they're just like yeah every day they're just like our competitors yeah exactly so the looking at the specifications of the eight CX which I mean say what you will about the naming conventions the eye did you get any Envy hearing just how much higher spec that processor has been like you have the audrina 680 rather than the 640 the rio 495 not the 485 which is over getting and the mobile device the mobile processor like so did you get a look at how big the actual yeah platform is yeah how big was it I'm trying to remember it's like its size of an 850 physik physically oh really yes okay yeah I got that would make for it left him we put that a tablet yo like I was thinking about that like so I was having a conversation with these guys and I'm like oh my god this should power Chromebooks like this should power Chromebooks this should be like the standard for like tablets going forward because everything in paper looks very powerful yeah yeah sure in paper it's just funny when they made the comparison to the 8:35 because I I reviewed the eye so I received the HP Envy x2 and there interview I was gonna ask the both of you if you've used one of these always connected so I have the HP Envy x2 which Diego uses and I have the galaxy book to which I haven't reviewed yet because Adam Lane did the text review such a um great text review by the way and so the 8:35 was no no it was just it was it's not laggy but there was no I think that's the word it was just lacking it didn't perform yeah now it seemed like they were bottlenecks yeah the case of the RAM in any of those funny ups attack or gigs and the lenovo won and like a few tabs is gonna take up 3.5 exactly but then in the case of the of the 850 initially I was like no this can't be just as bad but I like the moment I unboxed it it has so many software updates it was crazy after those software updates were applied dude that thing performs great nice ok like great the only thing that it doesn't provide is the 20 hours of battery life but to be honest with you I'm fine with the 12 yeah I used a little bit I used I didn't gonna touch any of them I mean I cuz there was a bit of a campaign that was being done you know just like messing with these and and I was I was meant to be kind of a part of it but I knew the time constraints came in so I haven't touched any of these so I kind of want a snapshot of what and always connected so I just sent the lenovo to Brandon yeah but he would gladly send that review to you my friend does that one 850 it's safe okay that was 850 yeah yeah so you've actually 835 Lenovo okay yeah yeah yeah it's uh it was stinted by the RAM like a lot and then obviously life I was not yeah I mean when you just completely I think that that was a proof of concept sure Mike they just wanted to see like how many developers are actually going to port their apps right like recently they made it so it's really easy to actually be able to port your app to arm you can just like a one-click type thing if you're working in their IDE and the problem right now because there's not a lot of hardware available these manufacturers don't have well that software developers don't have a lot of incentive to port you know it's easy but it's like why spend the resources because there's like four five laptops and I'm right now but with this chip I think they've gotten past that they've really gotten past that like proof of concept stage you know they've they did all the marketing campaigns and they had people trying to use them and what I took away from today especially after the presentation was that they're aiming this at least initially at business like when I when they released the 8:35 and the 850 laptops they seemed like they were kind of going after consumers especially the campaign races were not yeah the price yeah but but especially in the keynote today half of it was about security and the other half was about productivity and like all of the apps they showed were like working apps so no you know and they showed like one thing of like asphalt 9 but like I I'm a little cynical in the fact that like whenever they use asphalt as like a benchmark I'm yeah it's made for mobile like that is the game that is optimized the most remote I made a face when I saw that as oh yeah did they make that the first time they showed me I am end up with them for dinner like a few weeks before they announced they hate thirty five ones yeah and they showed me like asphalt 8 on it and I was like and they're like look at the frames and I was like yeah but you get that on a phone - oh okay because this is a 35 so it's the same thing it's not much more resolution yeah just larger but I mean I think like taking the idea of we're physically going to double the die size and put you know way more transistors in there and just really make this something that you can actually use and now with the width you can do nvme SSD storage yeah you can do up to 16 gigs of ram so there's going to be serious laptops now right but is windows still being emulated on that is still being yeah you can't they yeah yeah so everything is gonna be emulated Firefox actually runs surprisingly well oh man I got the news right up those natively creating it for it right yeah yeah yeah in the case of Firefox yes but then like for example do dice these guys doing the demo today with Photoshop on the reference hardware Oh God Photoshop is not really it wasn't bad okay it was good and they were all doing it while showing it on a on a screen on a 4k TV was it Photoshop mobile though or was it like Photoshop it was like Windows Windows Photoshop interesting yeah I was like Oh Windows 10 Enterprise Photoshop for example my experience with the 8:35 is you could move away from s mode but I don't recommend it hmm my experience with the 850 is don't worry move away from my spot you'll be fine it's just what the 835 apps like Chrome weren't compatible like racially right eventually they did but it was laggy AF yeah and so here the it's supposed to be that the you know the 850 will still be sold it'll be like the lower end they'll alternate slower and then this would be the higher tier I just I hope that they don't lose the perspective of you know it's great to have 20 hours but I doubt that people will spend that much very much time without charging their computers it was it New York to Australia right yeah is that the longest flight in the world is that way to Australia tall chair thanks I mean like for example today I'm using a razor blade and I had it in lowest brightness possible no lights on the keyboard and power saver mode yeah and it lasted one hour in the keynote from tethering and shooting so that's that's the thing yeah so like battery life in my opinion is like one of my most valued things and like if you can get most of my stuff done like I have a I have a pixel book and I use that for a few things mostly for writing and then I actually use do some Lightroom mobile editing on it because it has the Android app for sure but it's so useful because the battery life is amazing and it in like keyboard is amazing and so like these thin and light things can exist but like you were saying you said that you were worried that they would eventually like forget about the important things I am a little bit worried that they're going to keep making the chip bigger and then eventually they're just gonna become yeah whole idea of this entire thing is like for the last 10 years we've been optimizing and optimizing and optimizing because smartphones are small and you want to get as much power out of the smallest possible chip as you can and they double the size obviously it's a huge game but we don't want to get to the point where you have a full size like Intel sized chip in a smartphone things correctly yeah they were like I think so this is gonna be so always connected pcs we're creating a dedicated platform for always connected PCs and this is gonna be our mobile strategy which is the 855 and it's separate yeah I like my glass yeah yeah you know when they did the 835 I was like God why not the 845 yeah you know it was weird it was I just feel like they probably had all the silicon already they were doing R&D like crazy long time because they had to do all the software to get it to work yeah it's that probably took a year yeah but just just to give you an idea the eight CX is 200% faster than the 835 yeah it's 40% more power efficient than the 50 yeah what could you could you actually take these always connected pcs and do a one-to-one transfer of someone's daily laptop life yes so it like you can't so how about like creativity that's that's my main reason why the essential point is enterprise yeah cuz they run Excel fabulous they run like corporate open way now is the thing right that was like the half of the frickin presentation was about enterprise and office know and so they've got it like tender got Lenovo on mcdonough take a stand when novo owns the office for enterprise - yeah yeah yeah so I think that no these are not creative computers they're not they're capable to a certain degree mm-hmm but the these are more for people that really do value battery life you know like the people that travel a lot like you know in my case I just I guess that what I would love to see is like smaller form factors of the always connected PC because I feel like Oh 20 hours of battery life like really just give me 12 but give me a smaller more accessible tablet sure that I can connect the keyboard to and that is like because for me if you think about it like what am i I you know insanity I was like my favorite product of the year is the new iPad pro it is not a computer replacement it just it can't be yeah huge a stress yeah one of the things that I'm that I'm gonna say in my review is very simple it needs an iPad OS it's time for this it's time for an iPad oh as if you're not gonna make mac OS run on this thing I was gonna say because it's pointless free that tell me how powerful it is if the operating system is a bottleneck whereas in the case of Windows 10 you don't have that bottleneck yeah the only limitation literally is form factoring so my priority is don't give me the battery size and the size of a regular computer play with the form factor give me thinner products because you've got all this you know give me a tablet size you know the like this Windows sorry this surface go should have been powered by a Snapdragon sure yeah oh there's a point no yeah I think it would have performed with a lot better than with that seller on that is currently using yeah nope ng I'm sorry that 28 millimeter prize I'm just kidding think they kept putting those numbers out there on stage yeah I mean I get about the same time it's like you know yeah if we if we had to compare like the times of the Intel Atom with just to give you an idea of like there is no room for comparison between this the the crap the experiences we have yeah it was bad years ago is bad bets lab dragon Annika yeah absolutely like no I like if you use an 850 computer I don't I honestly don't notice a difference between that and my surface I have a surface pro 4 though um I don't notice a difference honestly but but it's with the 850 with the 835 I was like a mere surface like let's go ya know still reach or something else yeah yeah yeah and the four factors of all the laptops I'm really to seeing that become more common because if these processors make it clear that this type of form factor is important to a lot of people and it's gonna continue like I'm God I can't say more good things I can't I can't say enough good things about while we made all of them okay yeah that row and that form factor that particular configuration is starting to become more common yeah yeah we just got the stealth the the razor blade stealth just now and it's it's it's it's nice to see that and you know things are getting more compact things are get more powerful despite being more compact and Qualcomm is is doing their part yeah yeah you do have a good point over like even even like why am i why is the iPad a product that I use a lot it's because my MacBook Pro 15 inch is so crappy when it comes to battery life like I don't know how my day is gonna go and so the last thing that I want is to burn 25% of my battery in writing a script way out right now I feel that is such a waste and I probably won't be able to find that person and it's just that's bad like Intel really needs to figure something out yeah yeah all right so we have the the HDX out of the way it's gonna end up being the 90s phantom anything for you guys we're drinking matcha tea just if anyone's ever at all curious suggested this is not my other podcast so I'm not gonna go into detail but yeah I saw the HDX I'm guessing the next iteration is gonna be like 9 CX or something like they're gonna keep the extreme in there what the C stands for computing oh it was the 8 stand for computing extreme it's there at the current 8th generation oh yeah see it's a dumb name well let's move on to another name that you hear a lot about these days alright let's just talk about the 5g again I'm sure the viewers leaders are already just so sick of the 5g talk but when I did my video on the 855 I started off with a little bit of 5g talk and this was the best way I could describe it I want to hear your thoughts on this what phone did you have and what was your experience like in the transition from three to four to LTE hmm oh god that was citing that time was that what was my transition to LTE yeah uh iPhone 4s okay okay mine was the HTC Thunderbolt how oh my god that was such as the first 4G LTE phone and then was have in bed it burned my hand while I was running to apps and it overheated oh no I think my I was probably the truth of the iPhone 5 was the first one with LT there we go yeah the true test of LTE because it was kind of coming in like it just be a plus when I get faster faster faster couldn't quite get to that upper echelon until an LTE phone came out was the Droid DNA oh yeah I love that phone when I came out I wanted it so bad I wanted it so bad we didn't get a unit I was about to cry yeah but I just remember feeling so excited because all of a sudden the phones were faster you didn't have to rely you didn't have to be so patient yeah granted we've lost that patience in our current generation yeah I just remember like from the days of having a dumb phone that like we call them now and Google Maps became a thing on like a Sony Ericsson and I was just so happy to have a mapping application to guide me right and then moving on to Android and then gaining it Detroit DNA like that is the type of excitement that is actually palpable and I feel like what most people are forgetting under all of the low-level talk is that that's what we're probably going to experience coming up again yeah I think so I think especially with 5g it's just like and I mean the biggest problem is that it is only going to be deployed in a few cities because the way that it works like you have to put nodes everywhere yeah because their reach is so short right but the benefit is that you can still have sub six and then also here comes like this is why and this is when everyone checks out you see like sub six millimeter wave you know and I get it you know we understand that terminology I just barely do now but that's what I mean like I I think that what Qualcomm needs to do is to actually give those use cases and what they're doing is putting VR headsets on people and saying look it's streaming perfectly understand why then I understand why they use that as a use case right yes it makes bandwidth the the entire reason why we haven't been able to do wireless vr so far is because standard Wi-Fi doesn't have enough throughput it has too much latency and that's why until developed like a special Wi-Fi standard yeah to push like that much like bandwidth over-the-air but and so I get it I get it but the thing is like yeah like you said who's gonna be like standing in a park with the VR headset on like just like fighting zombies Ridgid took my next question about 5g if there are more applications of it that would be incredibly practical let's say 8 kv or HDR 10 all these terms that you may or may not understand why they're cool then that's our job that's our job to make it clear to you that's why I was actually kind of excited when I thought about that I was like my first LTE phone was a super exciting experience yeah I was watching Netflix on that thing without having to wait for it to buffer yeah and then even then back then netflix became a thing that was exciting right right yeah so our content our what what what our phones were capable of and the things we did on the internet completely changed once HSPA and LTE became a thing and I wonder what would be or what would be your views case scenario where 5g actually benefits you because we can think of the practical stuff like I need to upload my video immediately but what yeah I mean I mean I think a lot of the use cases are gonna come down to creative work yeah like it's sad that it funnels down into that but like if you think about it most people when they're like oh I don't want YouTube video or something they just watch it like even it can be 2k and most people can stream a 2k YouTube video and it they don't notice a difference right the the difference I guess is just that it's it's like upload speeds you know that's like the biggest thing like I'm I'm gonna start shooting medium format pretty soon and those files are freaking normos which camera the Fuji 50 are Wow yeah and those files are huge because they're like they're just like 56 megapixels oh my goodness and so you take like you know if I take 20 photos that's gigabytes and even now I'm using I just started I got the Fuji XT 3 as my video camera and it can can shoot in two hundred megabyte or four hundred megabit per second video files 4k 10 bit 60fps and these are freaking huge files like right now a two minute file at 200 megabits 1080p 30 is is like is like three gigs you know for two minutes yeah I'm even gonna I hope I don't have any problems trying to upload this video to Jules later yeah the Wi-Fi is actually not bad here sorry yeah I think it's just like for me as it stands if I want to upload that kind of stuff I have to find a good Wi-Fi and like I'm not gonna upload it from my phone because like I pay pretty good by it data and then most a lot of places don't have great Wi-Fi and it could take like for example last week I was in Lake Tahoe Nevada right and I had to make a video well as on vacation is for this but the Wi-Fi there so garbage that it took nine and a half hours to upload a one and a half gig file on me and Wow yes I was real bad that was me uploading last week's weekly if you haven't seen that yeah the road trip yeah yeah mhm and in the through player it is so insane that you just don't have to think about anything and just like it just we passed this threshold of nothing is a problem anymore you know and I feel like we already passed out a video streaming but this is the point in which we passed that with giving each other data giving each other for me let me give it let me sense in Spanish music the way out of what like let me give you back the change on that topic okay the biggest problem is okay two things first one enough 5g talk just give me something to show ya yeah everything everything here everything that these I've said that the core everything was to been there years so please let's just get a city connected yeah and boom yeah just give it to consumers because I think like the word is just even becoming annoying like yeah it's like a meme at this point yeah yeah it's a meme okay I'm sick of hearing millimeter-wave yeah that's the first when you go to the airport in the the scanner it says an EM wave okay the second thing is okay so let's assume that 5g is everything that they say 5 gigahertz down I believe we've got IOT fully connected we've got this insane download speeds and yada yada at all that's fantastic you know what the problem is it's not free yeah it's not free and so what's the problem like for example I whenever I'm gonna notice I have great LTE speeds far better than the ones I have in the United States I don't have like I could literally upload anyone get to buy YouTube video into in about two minutes no problem whatsoever the problem is it's it's it's what it's like ten dollars per gig mm-hmm and you know so every single growth development technology is fabulous and I know 5 G's gonna be great I just want to know how carriers are planning to play in it yeah and because there it is pointless to have so much amazing bandwidth if I have to pay per gig yeah I'm praying that carriers get into another war and start you know upping the amount of data you get free fertile we finally get to a point where it's like everyone's unlimited again yeah we might get there and I hope so like Qualcomm made that use case to me when they first I had a meeting with them months ago where they showed me the first radios when they first would like unveiled the first radios and they said you know in our eyes like these the carrier because these speeds are gonna be so insane and everyone is gonna be pulling so much data like it's gonna be pretty much impossible for carriers to price it as they're pricing it now because the the argument when when LTE came out the argument was that people are straight are accessing so many more web pages streaming so many more videos that you have to change the pricing games because it becomes part of their daily life and if you price it the same way as you price that before then people are gonna be poor or like you can yeah it will be picked last again this is this is people are greedy so you never know like I pray that it'll be that way by me like in the case of LTE I I do understand the constraints and I do understand that and like everybody makes this common like dating the United States is stupid expensive and it is it's the most expensive I've ever paid for like it doesn't matter where I go you go to Taipei and it's what seven dollars from limited it's amazing prepaid car you know you go to Romanian it's like three dollars for a month unlimited yeah I think the fastest internet in the world mobile era in the world is in Estonia okay yeah and it's not that expensive no it's like yes it's like it's like so inexpensive and it's unlimited yep and so I understand that in the case of US carriers like Europe is the size of how much of the United States I do understand there's more territory it requires more infrastructure there is more population so I do understand that it's a lot of money for these carriers to keep these structures going I totally understand the complexity the problem is that like you know it doesn't it doesn't invite me to consume mm-hmm and the whole purpose the whole selling point of 5g is better consumption yeah and so the case of LC I understand the restraints the bottlenecks generated where 5g intends to fix that the whole purpose of 5g is tell you what stop investing on LTE we've got this new technology that's gonna take advantage of millimeter wave and then we're gonna have a small lower spectrum which is sub 6 that'll be able to penetrate buildings of far better so you're gonna have to invest less in infrastructure in order to be able to connect people so that's the whole selling point for carriers that's the whole it's actually supposed to and tell you what that existing LT spectrum that you have that's gonna be the fallback it's all gonna work simultaneous you're not gonna have to be at five G n then it falls into LT it's all happening at the same same time yeah and so be so because people are gonna be moving to 5g that whole LT spectrum will be to a certain degree Alessi DNA so it allowed that it'll allow them to no longer have to worry about to strengthen straining consumers because they want to protect that you know that they don't get bottlenecks in the spectrum yeah that's all cool yeah I just wish I could see it in the data plan exactly yeah I I think it was Michael mr. mobile himself that said last week on our car cast that what he wanted this tech summit to be was you arrive you get off the plane and when you get to here you get a moto rod better flora yeah you get a phone you know reference device phone that will not make it to market it's just a proof of concept get to use that they've already set up the island of Maui to be a five in our game corrector exactly but instead we've got a bunch of demos already went in and was just like yeah yeah and everything yeah because what it will be I'm kind of sick of hearing this is what you like this is what will be like the only the only hope that I have is the fact that is literally supposed to roll out in March so by next year's tech summit we should have used it a lot yeah right but I mean it's still only in a few cities it's in San Francisco I'm sure people are gonna be start flooding SF I did like that they had carriers here like just straight up saying oh we were on it yeah well I was surprised actually how into it Verizon was because they're usually into their own thing and they're like we're gonna do our own thing but this time they're actually working with Qualcomm which is their own thing has actually always been with Qualcomm if you think about it CDMA was the technology that enabled Verizon it was a walking technology LTE was the same thing and they were pretty much the first truck so they've always been like direct really close partners with Qualcomm yeah Qualcomm pretty much has enabled their business okay fair enough all right well that's it's a 2019 thing I'm pretty excited for it as long as like it's at consumption but also what we do with the mobile Internet becomes much more prevalent because we've we've reached a threshold of reliability we know how to get a reliable connection we know where to go we know what we have to do speed on the other hand is like it's a relative thing because we are tolerant beings so if all of a sudden everything is lightning fast and it is about what these theoretical yeah we're gonna think there's the slowest thing yours exactly yes until we get you have to remember how things have evolved over time like if you remember the internet before LT mm-hmm it was more efficient because it understood that there was not much power in our phones and there was not much bandwidth so the the mobile internet has evolved to a crazy way yeah like up to the point where I know people in New York who don't own a computer they can do everything they want yeah and they're fabulous yeah yeah exactly and for me it's just shocking to meet people that don't own a computer like the computers are seriously becoming a thing of the past we have a lot of people yeah and so if you think about that mentor HDX LTE has enabled a lot of like mobile YouTube man if you remember YouTube before yeah and people are actually formatting videos for phones now because it's like exact percentage consumption is on phone zactly yeah yeah yeah yeah they said on a 720p podcast all right so that's the 2019 thing but there is a bit to talk about in terms of 2019 as you talk about smart phones going forward but before we get to that we're gonna get into a tiny little break this episode of the pocket now weekly is brought to you by ops genie stuff happens well stuff but it's a word that starts with s and rhymes with hit and if you're running your business right you've got your developer and operations team standing by ready to pounce when stuff hits the fan but you have to know when that stuff hits the fan well with ABS Genie by Atlassian your teams have the tools they need to plan for incidents and outages whether they've been scheduled or have come up last minute and make sure your business is covered through different time zones and holidays alerts can be put out to over 200 platforms like JIRA Amazon Cloud watch data dog New Relic and others and if someone on the case can't fix the problem right then in there they have the ability to escalate the issue to another team member here's a free tip from me always back up problems don't always get solved the first time around with opps Jeannie your next incident doesn't stand a chance visit abbs Jeannie calm to sign up for a free company account for up to five team members no credit card required that's o-p-s ge and ie dot-com never miss an alert again with ops Jeannie from Atlassian dude we're doing this podcast wrong what look at this oh yeah we should have done it in the pool yeah those fools Michael Fisher and Hendra martynuk are are working from the pool it's funny because we all brought some work to this this whole thing right and second I have to admit I'm not I'm not too beat up about that because I know I'm here for a few more days lucky yeah I'm gonna shine you know what I'm heading to the pool after this do it and do all your stuff they're like do you still have like filming and what I'm just saying like can you film at the pools why I meant to say what I know if some people might get a little bit like freaked out like there's a camera over there okay so 20 19 20 19 I obviously this it makes sense that tech summit is at this time of the year because everything that they announce is meant to be for the upcoming yeah right it's like it's like showing off a 2019 sedan or something like that you're seeing what's gonna be used throughout the next year or so 8:55 how excited are you about what the 855 is going to offer and what that will mean for our smartphones like the next generation I don't know I mean you should get kind of excited with every generation but how excited are you about this one this one is a pretty big jump actually it's relatively surprising if you'll give just the performance gains and even the graphics gains it's a lot and I think that says something about what they're going to be doing with the a CX series as we call it you know they said in the keynote they're like they talked about Moore's law you know and they were like we're gonna create a new law for smartphones or for mobile chips where we start seeing a more exponential gain again because like Moore's law is really teetering out in terms of like regular processors but for mobile we're kind of reaching this whole new horizon right I think for the e55 in particular I'm excited about I'm excited about the action and this is such a buzzword the AI capabilities as related to camera technology because they really they announced a ton of new potential capabilities in the camera most of them have to do with deep learning depth maps so they are basically enabling all these new things like like bokeh mode live video because they can sample they can sample an image and project a depth map onto any image it's not even just not even just a taken with your phone you see that after the fact that's live yeah you can take you you could take an image from the in and give it a bokeh effect because it takes it uses this deep learning algorithm to sense depth based on where things should be after testing phones with two cameras so it can triangulate depth basically and every new almost every new feature in the camera for a 55 is enabled by this ability of you know deep learning an AI to triangulate depth and it's it's exciting because we hit you hit a point in physics with a sensor a camera sensor in which you can only get so much light you can only do this but things that like Google are doing things that it qualcomm are doing where you literally it's it's like computational photography is is the next frontier because even Google takes multiple frames takes the sharpest frame stacks all the other frames on top and then that way you get rid of any of the noise that you would get when you usually bump up the shadows you save the highlights you don't get noise and that that's the biggest thing like you're just you're just going around physics right you're not breaking it we're kind of routing around it and I think we've vacuumed yeah crazy stacking like yeah it's taking level one and just stacking it to make it level eight yeah but but you know level eight it's a whole different thing you just got really Lading the same thing in the way yeah I think computational photography in general people are seeing the the future the benefit of it Qualcomm in a 55 they have a new ISP that can do seven trillion operations per second and is specifically tailored to doing to doing imaging information no and it's insane and I I just like part of it part of the like you know I love using my camera camera and so far that's like I don't want I don't want my phone camera to be as good as my camera camera but like if we're gonna advance in the as humans in the future we gotta get to the point where we have DSLR style or not even DSLR mirrorless style cameras on us all the time in our pocket can you imagine though if that one smartphone manufacturer that takes everything this process is doing for camera processing the DSP the CV ISP computer vision image image processing and puts actually puts a bigger sensor on the back yeah well that's what he's supposed to do and that's the thing like a lot so here's the thing like the 845 brought a lot of stuff like HDR like a wider color gamut and photos all that was great but you know the other day the other day I was talking with a bear with a you know from every gizmo Fergus MO and he was like ok so all these things are great but they look really good on your phone yeah yeah you were talking about this yeah he's got a point and he's also doesn't have a point because everyone uses their phones to view content like they look great on your phone but once you pull them into a computer yeah they they don't look great like they're sharpening there are artifacts there's it's just not the perfect photo he's right think about it is you know I I feel that that we the only way because of the convenience of the phone people are willing to compromise a great photo guess why because they only look at them at their finally can pensions them on their phone exactly can't do that on a man I mean we've got Instagram pundits who will zoom into the highly processed photo that we post on Instagram it has also been compressed with horribly Campania and they they judge a phone by that you know I'm gonna say anything because I'm gonna be amazed I I love the fact that processors are getting to the point I just feel that you still the only reason like what separates a good smartphone camera is literally physics yeah it's the size of the sensor and unless smartphones can figure out a way around the size yeah you can do a lot of great fit like if you saw the demos the you could do a lot of bokeh sure but it looks fake mm-hmm oh yeah of course it looks fake yeah yeah no it's so it's great that you can do that but I find myself not doing it a lot unless I'm using them 8:20 Pro because the size of the sensor is significant ready larger yeah so you've got the physics being provided yeah and so unless somebody figures out a way around physics yeah you will still get great opportunities to fake things out and have them not look real right I think I think for right now with like the tonal depth mapping and stuff when when we get where we're getting to a point where we can more accurately predict depth and the more accurately we can predict it the more we can make it look like an actual camera should look right right now we kind of have like the first time that the bokeh mode came out was like 1 plus 5t and like a couple of things it was kind of focus area non focus area and it just looks so fake right now we're starting to see like you can triangulate depth based on two objects in a scene because we have two cameras two focus areas focus on subject focus on other thing and then through deep learning machine learning we can do that a million times and say like okay that's about five feet away in between that five feet how out of focus should it be right so it's getting better and then there's the things like the p20 Pro which had the monochrome sensor and monochrome sensors only get they only get texture data right and so that had it on top of that so actually the p20 Pro has slightly sharper images than the may 20 Pro but it gonna kind of Miss that too a lot of chrome since was slightly more but the process it was like trashy in the in the sensor is smaller yeah and also always always sure over sharpening is insane but no I'll the p20 pros bet on them 820 throats not yes it's dialed back but because they don't have the monochromes that started there anymore so yeah so they traded off the monochrome sensor for it was it the white or the wide-angle and wide angle which I love the white so say I mean having the three camera like they did it right but that's another tangent is it safe to say that we finally the dirty work there are a lot of people running around with me 20 pros yeah there were a ton of me I don't do something really I had my iPhone tennis max on the table I threw it on the bed I was like not well the governor of Hawaii was waving around and I found he's like I love Qualcomm so it's safe to say you were saying earlier already that we're moving into a whole new era when it comes to like the Moore's law and everything like that your points on that their points on that a set it's is it safe to say now that performance gains are no longer as important as future gains because now we know that just picking up this phone scrolling through the apps opening up games opening up videos we know that's gonna be a good experience no matter what yeah that is a that is a level of performance that we've already achieved between 800 and 820 we're good now yeah 835 proved that that could be a reliable experience a 45 proof that it could be a powerful experience now we have feature games in the 850 if it's a big reason why a lot of people say that smartphones are stagnating because what did we use to review smartphones based on how fast is it yeah right and that's why we used to use benchmarks and that's why we used to like you know launch apps really quick and jump back and forth between of them and and at this point it's like and so most smartphones now have like a gimmicky feature that it is gonna make or break the device or anything is I I agree with you there but the reason why I'm excited about the a 55 is because if you look at the trend of smartphones this year they knew that performance gains were finally out of peak or at least like we know we're good so they start putting in those features vapor cooling yeah cooling for the processor like notches and stuff like that because they don't like fans as they said but like talking about the cooling in particular if you have the cooling which made the 845 an even better gaming device imagine what its gonna do with the 855 right with everything that it's gonna bring to the table because that's an animator yeah you know an 855 with a good vapor cooling chamber I feel like is it's hard for me to say cuz I don't play games on my phone so yeah I hope so I feel that we know planes all the time you should be so I feel that we brush full to be defined yeah um because the biggest problem with mobile gaming is that mobile games are not really great yeah the better though have you played okay but Josh is a big mom yeah so here's the problem the reason why they're not great is not necessarily because there's no capability it's just they want to make them for the masses so obviously not everybody has a powerful enough phone to run all the graphics and to run everything yeah and they can't just tear what phone runs what they can but it's it's complicated and then you have to account for every single model and it's awful it's awful it's worse so I would really love to see like this but like a separate gaming store where just like in the PC market you've got minimum specifications to be able to run a game yeah and if no that's true now yeah and so if you want to buy this game you have to have a razor phone yeah with this this this and it'll give you the models which it's compatible for their kind of going there because if these computers the HDX processors and the platforms to have things like the adrenal 680 the you know 640 for mobile you know this will only work on the 680 you know that kind of thing yeah yeah that makes sense so I would love to see that because honestly like I hate playing certain games where it's a first-person shooter and then the guy that I'm supposed to shoot just runs in a weird direction and keeps doing it and then everybody that I'm fighting keeps doing the same thing yeah so the Nintendo switch is proof that you can have really powerful gaming experiences on mobile yeah you just need a fan and they got a fan you need a fan you need exhaust the story is everyone should buy an ROG you know it's just that's one thing then the second thing is you know following on the PC market we do need accessories like the thing we need to let's let's forget about the whole concept of thin and light I mean these alien these predators they literally look like Tyrannosaurus Rex yeah they look like the computer for Jurassic Park yeah yeah and you know what people buy them people that are really into the experience buy them and then the third thing is come on guys how difficult can it be to make a freaking mobile controller yeah like how but where a few people have made a good mobile controller yeah here's got a game bias here okay yeah but we need this so we like come on man if you if you're into gaming and you can't provide me a controller you're not into games yeah yeah you're right yeah yeah razor still hasn't released theirs right exactly yeah yeah yeah so we've got this problem where people are into this mentality where they love the ps4 controller or they prefer the pro controller on the switch or they some people actually like the Xbox controller I don't know why that's not a thing I would have expected I'm a to say come on guys they're gaming companies if you want us to take your gaming phone seriously you we number one we need better games we do yes yeah we do yeah and if these processors aren't capable quote-unquote I'd love to see that and I would not mind paying X like right now it's $60 for a game on this switch I'm not asking you to pay $60 on mobile but I wouldn't mind paying 20 bucks and for a really good game yeah and where I have limitations and they tell me you can only play it on this phone and so you can't buy it if you don't have the phone cuz you need you have the best possible experience they actually built it with me is involved exactly and they could launch a lite version for everybody else sure you know like that's the only way that I'm gonna take gaming on a phone seriously the developers do seriously need to look at mobile gaming as a platform that's available to everybody because you have these phones that like I said earlier before it's games are finally where we need them to be and if every phone has something like the 855 or even like de 45 then you can create games that everyone has some sort of access to we know it's interesting about day 55 is it's not only a lot faster but they also built in things like support for Vulcan 1.1 yeah which makes it a lot more efficient to run these games so the performance increase is not just the performance its Creed's its performance increase Plus how easy it is to run the game it's more up here than it is up here exactly you know the problem the problem is again we're good like I would love these gaming companies to take advantage of all that yeah but how many 855 s are gonna be launched less here's my problem that's the bottleneck the bottleneck is that mentality that all foe should be able to run this game yeah yeah that's not the way it works very successful yeah there's another mentality - one of the main points that they kept making on stage about gaming was how much money it brings in and real gamers are like okay yeah like think of think of it this way though even even a game like Red Dead Redemption - yeah it doesn't have microtransactions and all that stuff right and the mobile gaming space people are too greedy they want the gotcha they want all of that stuff great and we have to yes give me a $30 yeah good game don't give me that stupid in that purchases man yeah yeah and I agree with you there that that's that right now is the Achilles heel of mobile gaming it is the most lucrative form of gaming but we need to have a subset of developers who are creating triple-a title yet for these phones yeah that you pay a premium for and that's all you pay yeah just like console gaming just like PC gaming and yeah and that is something that we did to ourselves because at the very forefront of mobile everything was free when when apps first became a thing app developers made apps because ads were lucrative as whatever and there was so much money coming in from like oh free version ads right and then now people aren't even willing to pay 99 cents for a pro version of an app that they use every single day yeah people are like Oh I'm gonna get my credit card 99 I'm 1990 they spent $4 on their Lots I spend 450 on my latte every morning not here in the wild here it's $10 why and it's subpar what but it's we did this ourselves that evening in which Hawaii if it has the word Kona in it doesn't mean it's great so it's hard right it's hard because it's going to take a cultural shift to get people to be able to pay that I remember way back I had a ipod touch first generation and iPad - yeah it was my first ever Apple product yeah nice it was yeah it was my third but I remember funny because I have owned an Apple product since then but I remember looking at the App Store and looking at what's the most expensive app that I can find on the App Store and it was three hundred dollars and it was a security software suite for enterprise and I was like oh my god $300 for an app that is absolutely ludicrous like who is gonna like everything's free like you know people don't even like rent a movie for like $2.99 and it's like it's crazy I don't know why there's this mentality in society that like anything you do on your phone should be free but it's okay we're gonna have to get past that before anyone's that's why I think like thirty dollar game is anyone gonna spend that I mean you would I would I'm already paying $70 on switch games yeah ya know they're expensive the thing is that's how you create true gamers in this space yeah I would like to see someone like Nintendo yeah make a full-fledged game game because Nintendo's there's already a certain set of games in the Play Store that do that but the problem is their ports there's a classic yes you could pay 25 bucks a play to play Final Fantasy 7 again yeah which is awesome but but let's let's take you to the we need people pushing it and the reason why I'm saying the whole $30 is you know what building these games requires talent and hard work yeah and these developers need to get paid the only reason why we've got the stupid I ok this transaction the stupid transaction thing is because developers were Bunnyman yeah yeah yeah it's lucrative yeah here's the thing like we created this like app bubble and then the app bubble burst at the moment the companies weren't able to monetize as you know phones the the you know they as smartphones start lowering an amount of sales it's it's not productive for them and more the which are the phones that sell the most you know she wouldn't submit the mid rangers and so that's the thing I feel that gaming companies in Mobile are doing it wrong yeah they take the Nintendo approach yeah low-power fun yeah yeah they're really money yeah I feel that they're doing it wrong I mean give me high power charge money it's fair mm-hmm sure it's fair I feel that it is fair yeah I would rather that over in that experience and you know and just make it clear if you don't have this phone you can't play this game yeah and I can bet you that that's the moment that gaming phones are gonna take off exactly it's also going to create loyalty in the Android space yeah yeah which I think would be great but we finally have like camps of people you know it's more sad right now my phone plays for tonight better than an Android phone does it's like it's see I'm just like yeah this is what I mean and it's the reason why people are like it's funny how how many people in YouTube think that I'm an iPhone hater I'm not I would and what watch it by wearing what tablet at my work it's clear that I use them using not wearing it's not wearing the tablet the point being is why is building apps for an iPhone so much better because there are so the market don't vary yeah it's the same damn thing imported different capabilities and that that is the deal and so yeah with androids complexity the smartest thing is for developers to forget about the mentality that every phone is everything should be right exactly so you know what then I'll say this manufacturers start getting in bed with these game companies like I get it is doing it they get they did they launch with the real thing not because well Samsung did the hole for ninth even though that doesn't even really matter it's not the same thing didn't optimize it yeah it was just a marketing ploy Samsung get in with Square Enix like I don't know maybe one other company razor got in with marina valor which is the biggest game in China why boy yeah but that's the game not necessarily like the publisher now like publisher like make it make it like $0.10 only works with Samsung make it so that Razer only works with I mean so then you start getting to exclusives yeah it's weird but that's how we have the console gaming anyway we have we're talking about gaming now we were pretty far this happened but it was a fun and passionate one I want to make sure we do one last thing and and let our viewers know at least one piece of information about the 855 that they can be happy about no more latency in Bluetooth so people here's the thing I what I did that demo mmm-hmm I was like no no it was it there is zero latency so my biggest problem with the whole death of the headphone jack is that bluetooth isn't any better it's better it's better it's it's like latency and just the whole pairing process and the fact that connecting my it's not as simple as wire from phone to wire to computer yeah no Perry can be a nightmare and then you've got the cases like the mark 3s from Sony would yeah yeah a total they're the best headphones that have the worst yeah connected you one problem and the other their their work it's bad and so this is the reason why bluetooth is not ubiquitous if price and experience does not match the headphone jack yeah yeah until now yeah it actually feels like it we beat you roll latency you're literally pressing buttons on whatever and there is immediate reaction to audio yeah it was fantastic and they weren't even like using expensive headphones haptics adaptive oh yeah yeah so aptX already sounds great no acoustic please no comments audio files come on it does we know this we know that we acknowledge your existence we acknowledge your existence and we know that nothing would be better than vinyl fine pay for all this issue film some stuff I you know I just hate that it's an 855 thing oh yeah I would yeah or something that would come on be better for cheaper yeah it's not in the processor because I wish that the next batch of headphones would be able to do it would be able to do it even if this 855 is not the processor that I'm using yes it's just one of those things where I'm like crap I use an iPhone for running and I'm like damn it I I'm gonna need like a small Android phone to be able to you to be able because it's really good yeah yeah mm-hmm you know that I mean the fact that it can switch like adaptively back and forth between like resolutions this is it's great that sound board that they had the motherboard or whatever it was I said SBC which is what like you know we've heard that term and a few different types of headphones it was SBC and then you hit there was it was a demo of like a phone that had a piano key like layout and you like you press enter press then duck press then done but this time it was one to one once once she hit the switch and I went to app days if it was awesome so anyone anyone out there who like gets that latency in games and videos or anything like that at any point yeah yeah it's gonna be mine especially at these kind of events where literally there's a million Bluetooth networks everywhere do you know that's you know that's also the thing because like they're just that's why I like it's impossible to use bluetooth that press events because it's just like there's signals everywhere and if you can oscillate and change you know adaptively what you're gonna need it's super useful yeah yeah yeah all right well we we do have a luau to attend and this is the most comfortable shirt I've ever had in my life this is not but I think I would I would think you know I'm gonna wear this on the beaches in LA like in the summer all the time in China what's gonna happen okay I've gotten every comment possible from my girlfriend shoutout to you so she was like what is that shirt but in any case pocket now actually no actually a Hawaiian shirt and on that note I read the fiber I was reading lower on this and on that no that's it for now the weekly is just as much a conversation as it is a show so make sure you make your voices heard either in the comment sections down below or you can email us podcasts at pocketnow.com on twitter well we all set instagram because david our host here at David Emmel on Instagram I name name yeah your name what's your other gamertag from fifth grade yeah David and now you do you are VI D I am Yi L on Twitter on Twitter if you find it let me know hamster and I'm a Tavares Oh as of course found that hi mate underscored Avera remember that underscoring in here and now oh yeah and of course I have found that JV tech team you know me by now I am JV I love Tech and I love to make and drink tea and festive pakka now is that pocket now on twitter facebook Instagram and YouTube on in English and espanol where you can find more news on the pocket now daily and pocket now Adagio every weekday we'd really appreciate your feedback through Google Apple stitcher pocket cast or wherever you happen to be streaming us because without you we wouldn't have been able to make this show for your eyes and ears for three hundred and thirty five episodes straight all right so that's that whatever you're doing he still has the the old outrigger I'm gonna try to change that up Aloha and to thank you so much for watching and listening to this podcast and we will see you or rather you'll hear us on the next episode