VIDEO
wha with North America takes a rocky
turn as law-enforcement agencies issue
an advisory and problems arise from
trying to game mate ten reviews on best
by a row so tracking drama from HTC
shall me and Verizon so with a special
guests on this week's show
let's also spend a little time prepping
the rumors and leaks coming up for MWC
that'll be a lot more fun methinks we've
got a lot to talk about so make sure
you're charged and ready for episode two
nine two of the pocket now weekly
recorded february 16th at noon pacific
this weekly podcast is where we dissect
and discuss those gadgets that make our
lives mobile smartphones tablets and
wearables it's all the stuff you wished
existed when you were a kid reading
dime-store science fiction novels I'm
Juan Carlos bag now senior editor at
pocketnow.com joined as always by plucky
podcast producer mr. Jules Wong how's it
going buddy boy I'm pretty good I mean
it's a it's a little gray out here today
but the sun shining face that I could
put on to counter this is gonna be as
well-defined as the quality of those
your whether or not withstanding we've
got a third face on the podcast where
you going to this Jules cloud cover
no no what's much more exciting than
Jules is whether shenanigans joining the
podcast this week the man the myth the
legend mr. Rhyne Hagar from Android
police thank you so much for joining the
show this week thank you for having me
I'm about ten feet from Jules right now
even though it looks like it's much
sunnier where I am weather is just as
bad so it's hilarious you guys are
saying that we had just like a little
bit of just like cloud frosting in Los
Angeles over the last week and it broke
literally about 20 minutes ago
and it's completely screwing with the
exposure that I can't like I'm darker
than I should be the backgrounds all
blowing out right now this isn't exactly
what I intended but I know you're
already in the roar of borealis yeah
exactly while I'm prepping my steamed
hams
I Ryan thank you so much I'm embarrassed
to say that I've been participating with
Android police been a big fan we had
David on a David Roddick on the show to
talk about some stuff a couple months
back and for the longest time I thought
there were two Ryan's on Android police
and it wasn't until jewel sent me in an
email that I even bothered to recognize
that your name is more closely resembles
a river not you know like Ryan Gosling
yeah I I get that a lot and I tend to
just respond to both which since we also
have Orion at Android police means
there's a little bit of a mix-up
sometimes but it works well I'm glad I
was I was able to correct that in my
brain and hopefully save you just one
person's worth of agony for actually
identifying you as you properly should
be not the one thing that you can do to
differentiate between the two is just
talk about London for a little bit and
then it's true yeah that's how you tell
the difference between me and Ryan we're
pretty much identical otherwise but
linin brings out the different system
good to know
III endeavor our listeners to consider
you're approaching you with discussions
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know here it might not be the best way
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will happily respond to your questions
and concerns and comments after well
let's say a couple of weeks because we
got the MWC coming up and we have a
mailbag episode afterwards which would
be between the end of February and the
beginning
so would be I and then also for those of
you joining the show live we're already
seeing some chatter on that PN weekly
hash tag mr. Andrew says slack saying
shoutouts to other regular listeners at
fat produce at riina-chan people already
chatting about some of the topics we
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meet us up on Twitter and throughout the
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using that P and weekly hash tag that's
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real-time instant message style
communications on the the youtubes and
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powerful in-your-face live as we as we
speak the confronting images those were
all goods yes yes all right let's jump
in the news that's the top news stories
from from pocket now this week the
podcast yeah for the week of February
12th this is all the news that's fit to
podcast and we begin with the US
government and meaning of the Senate
Intelligence Committee with some of the
top intelligence heads of the nation six
of them including the FBI is Christopher
Ray's speaking to the concerns of
Chinese cyber threats and the fact that
Huawei and ZTE are apparently going
they wouldn't recommend using handset
from them so this is coming as following
ZTE are building their US consumer
relationships so this will be
interesting to see going forward
especially as the May 10 Pro was being
blocked off by carriers we'll have to
see how that goes long and speaking of
May 10 Pro got that contest from
Facebook that was happening there
apparently there was some sort of a
contest to recruit beta users for the
hardware and the main mechanism of entry
was putting down a review on the Best
Buy review page for the product which
was only in pre-orders by the way
there's a whole bunch of terms of use
that would be violated in that and
apparently the whole snafu is being
addressed by Huawei right now saying
that they were
fused that there was an internal
confusion that this was just a there was
supposed to be a second campaign for
current beta users that they were
supposed to get feedback on the best
webpage but apparently there was some
conversion going on we'll have to dig
into that in just a little bit
HTC's smartphone business president
Shannon Chang has resigned just another
one in the many resignations that have
come along over the years seems like
last year it was Scott Croyle that got
off the bandwagon after the HTC 10 and
now it's the smartphone president
smartphone business president getting
off here and this is before any
potentially you 12 that might be coming
along so definitely not did sign is even
though there was some sort of a positive
encouragement from Google and that 1.1
billion dollar labor deal going on we'll
have to look into that a little bit
further Verizon is has announced that it
will be as seven walking phones again
after what a decade or so of agreeing to
not selling any or doing anything with
sin walking the requirement was because
of agreement had signed with the FCC to
acquire 700 megahertz frequencies for
licensing and now they're saying that
we're going to do this for theft and
fraud of reasons to protect customers
from that they say that the change does
not impact spirit of that agreement and
as it is designed to deter theft by
those who engage in identity theft or
other fraud we'll get into the debate
about that in just a little bit apples
home pod is not really going along with
as with other products typically you see
very high product margins on these
products including buy from ten which is
kind of an achievement within its own
stuff I guess you could say but when
you're considering that Apple is selling
that home pod for $349
that you see the price to build
according to stores here two hundred
sixteen dollars it's a comparatively
modest margin to have where typically
it'd be sixty something percent this is
more closer to forty percent so
definitely a little out of line in terms
of the usual habits of Apple the Google
will pick a pixel book now has a sleeve
to go along with it and the Google store
is selling it for $100 Xiaomi Xiaomi has
deleted a Twitter poll that is really
stirring things up here I believe
they've done one or two of these
beforehand but they've done this on
Twitter and they're calling users on
which we just lose jewels the last story
in a nutshell Jami you know what Ryan
let's start right there you run a major
smartphone manufacturing company you put
out a poll why why do you put out a poll
I feel most people put out polls because
they're confident they know what the
results are gonna be you know I'm not
sure why they put out that poll cuz they
had to have known that people were not
going to vote for no it was a I think
was that by the end of a was like 57 to
43 in terms of Android went to meet you
I and some some similar kind of thing
going on in the previous poll so when
you consider the the wider audience of
Twitter the you know there's some
American in global audience going with
that and how you know the the
enthusiasts market tends to gravitate to
it towards a Xiaomi anyways this was not
really a good combination and even with
like an informed hole where they would
you know do it just for strictly for the
Chinese market or something like that
yeah I'm not sure as to whether that
would provide better results or you know
more meaningful results at the very
least
no no rhinos we're kind of like digging
into stories like this you know we're
gonna be talking a lot about
Huawei here in just a bit kind of moving
back up the news chain that we just went
through all the headlines would your
experiences that Android police kind of
mirrors some of the discussion that
we've had on pocket now where it seems
like most of the enthusiasts the people
that really join this conversation we're
all pretty well satisfied with the
current state of Android I mean picking
up a pixel doesn't feel like the old
Nexus days where there was a lot of
missing functionality from third-party
skins yeah people definitely like I was
just remarking on the other day yeah
there's not really as much of a feature
gap anymore
people used to need to root and ROM and
to do things like that to add in the
features they wanted now there are
enough other workarounds for pretty much
anything you could desire there's not
really in my opinion anyway a whole lot
that's lacking right now in Android
although some of the supplementary
projects like Android wear could use a
little lot of help yeah definitely
Android wear whole ways things work yeah
well and it definitely I think it speaks
to Google's confidence in their various
projects right now like we're seeing
them pushing the boundaries on different
aspects of Android design
I think we're watching them kind of
coast on Android wear but as we get back
to their relationship with individual
manufacturers do you do you think that
this is increasingly going to be the
differentiator between the various camps
I mean there are Yummie fans just like
there are Samsung fans just like there
are LG fans just like there are pixel
fans do you think that people are fans
of a manufacturer because of these
software improvements or despite you
know I don't know I will say I will
qualify whatever I say with not all
opinions are valid but I don't think
that I think that there are genuinely
some people who like some of the
features that are added by roms I know
that there are a lot of people who are
really into Samsung's modifications over
the last couple years and that's whereby
whatever they're calling it now it's not
TouchWiz anymore is it
Samsung experience yeah do I experience
yeah but I I think that I think that if
most people get the
to try a wider variety and flavor of the
various builds that they'll probably end
up liking the the simpler ones the non
MIUI is the non the closer to stock
really I think the better it is in terms
of usability because most of the
modifications that get put on top of it
really don't add a whole lot in terms of
usability they're just differentiation
for differentiation sake well and
especially when we're looking at an
outlet outlet like Xiaomi where for the
longest time it seemed like there was I
can sort of push to try and draw Android
closer to iOS style functionality yeah
there's yet they in terms of appearance
and a lot of the weird behavior and it
is they try to Cologne a lot of that
functionality and I'm not a fan I think
it's terrible but so I'm gonna I want to
kind of move up move up from there
because again I just think it's it's
funny the number of sort of PR missteps
that we saw from numerous companies this
week I mean in and out of the tech space
but you know like pulling the Twitter
poll like the sour grapes if I'm just
gonna take my ball and go home it's like
a light-hearted version of what we're
gonna be getting into with some of these
other issues like Tim Cook of like
taking the Super Bowl picture and then
deleting it because good and now
suddenly we have to talk about the skill
of the photographer to know I do want to
unravel a little bit and Ryan get your
thoughts on this move by Verizon I'm a
little confused as to why this was the
right time the cynic in me is really
wanting to point to the current
relationship between major telecom
companies this concerted effort to
remove consumers right to repair and the
telecommunications relationship with
regulatory agencies at the time I'm I'm
a little distrustful and and I feel like
I'm gonna be kind of popping on my
tinfoil hat a lot during this broadcast
I'm a little distrustful of the motives
behind relocking phones on the platform
do you really feel that this is the best
move forward for trying to reduce
smartphone theft and fraud
I don't necessarily know that locking
devices is gonna reduce smartphone theft
and fraud it might but I I don't believe
that for a second that that's actually
the the explanation for what is going on
because they're definitely just taking
advantage of the fact that right now the
FCC is being managed by someone who's
friendly enough not to try to enforce
the regulation that was previously
imposed upon them when they purchased
what was at the 700 blocks yeah I know
David was ranting about that in our
coverage and he's he's entirely right
he's absolutely correct because I think
it's just another example of exactly we
were saying Ryan it's another example of
the difference between tech coverage and
sort of tech lifestyle you know I'm
really excited that geek has won the
general sort of lifestyle discussion
smartphones are ubiquitous you know we
we win but because of that it also feels
like we don't always have the most
in-depth or consumer appropriate
discussions on these types of on these
types of stories so um I don't know Ryan
moving right along as we as we check out
the landscape on different manufacturers
and the companies that people seem to be
excited about releasing new products uh
where's HTC's current dilemma with
Presidents resigning fitting into that
it is not leaving me with a lot of not
leaving me with a lot of confidence for
the brand moving forward as a Premium
Outlet for smartphones well they did
just sell a hardware division to Google
right so how much is left well is it
okay so much like I'm wearing tinfoil
hat a lot for these stories this week
someone accused me of trying to create a
kind of narrative around that buyout
like my theory was you piecemeal HTC you
move some of the most important
divisions over to Google the vibe
becomes its own thing and within two
years the HTC brand is just licensed out
on low-cost and mid-range hardware and
the spirit of HTC will live on in the
pixel and someone told me all no you're
wrong this is a the move is predicated
on dividing these resources but there's
always going to be a high-end HTC
blah-blah-blah-blah-blah to me seeing
the revolving door
presidents and CEOs and CTOs and CFOs
and the different people running the top
at this of this organization speaks to
me that we're probably not looking at an
htc that's long for this world in a way
that we understand it today we
entertained the same thought as well in
a discussion on the Android police
podcast I think two weeks ago um that
yeah they're they're splitting off all
of the assets that are worth anything
they sold a hardware division to Google
I think they still have some at least
one hardware division left as you said
the vibe is being spun off into its own
like separate thing
so yeah what's left like I I mean I
don't I don't think it's their intention
to do any of what you just described but
I would not be at all surprised to see
that happen because I think that if they
don't maintain profitability with what
they've got left they'll see more of the
company's departments and assets being
split off this old piecemeal until all
that's left are is the name and you know
I don't know I don't I'm not hopeful and
and this also avoids some of the ire
that we saw when Google just outright
acquired Motorola right so now I feel
like there's there's also like an
imaging war that's happening like a PR
battle that happens what are the optics
on a move like this if Google had just
reached out snatched up HTC in its
entirety that puts pressure on other
manufacturers it were angry enough about
Motorola when that happened yeah exactly
and so now I kind of feel like this this
lets everyone off the hook
HTC sort of allowed to fail on its own
terms while they have plenty of time in
the market to look at what needs to be
acquired what resources need to be
divided what needs to be shipped off to
another what debts and assets need to be
reconciled and we can be pretty
confident that the team that was at HTC
before they went to Google probably had
about two phones in the pipeline you
know I can I would expect there be a you
12 and probably a you 13 you know there
were already designs on manufacturing
that hardware that's why I kind of say
within the next two to three years I
seriously doubt HTC is going to resemble
what it did you know a year ago
the pipeline is I think that the
hardware development pipeline is usually
at least 12 months usually like 12 to 18
so we're definitely gonna see one to two
more phones out of I'm I'm curious to
see if any of that's gonna come along
with the purchase of the hardware
division that Google got if the next
pixels are gonna be based on some of
these HTC phones that might have been in
the pipe if any of that came with the
the acquisition of the do you think
we'll see some of that synergy just
because of the the the team having made
that transition or do you think that
Google will start to exert more of its
own influence over the design process
like where we were was at the HTC u 11
plus being the pixel excel that we
didn't get because of LG manufacturing
that phone or do you think we'll see a
starker divide for pixel 3 I don't I
don't even know I yeah the the pixel 2
situation because there was the canceled
wall I I don't know if I'm pronouncing
that correctly yeah the wall I yeah that
was the original excel that they were
and they ended up going with the LG
phone instead but I don't you know I
don't really know I don't know how it's
gonna who knows maybe the purchase of
the hardware division is gonna end up
being something totally unrelated
they're gonna use this to manufacture
more of like the the other goods they're
doing the Google clips or the the oh
yeah it could be totally unrelated until
we see a phone come out until we find
out who the manufacturer is there's
there's no way to know but I definitely
I bet that this is I bet that it's
pointing towards the next pixel if not
this next one because maybe it was far
enough down the pipe maybe they have LG
already picked for the next bit of
hardware then definitely the one after
cuz I think that was probably one of the
fairest criticisms of Google's launch
this year was having Hardware
discrepancies and and like sort of
having different problems for each tier
of pixel you know like microphone issues
versus screen problems versus like paint
chipping look and some of the durability
of these phones not to mention the
screen on the XL exactly and so one of
the I think one of the surest ways to
sort of reconcile some of those QA
problems would be to get manufacturing
all under one roof
hopefully so I think that either way
they're still gonna be am LEDs a problem
where are they going to source the
panels from there's two companies and
make them you got LG you got Samsung LG
makes bad ones Samsung makes good ones
but Samsung LG does bad heads they make
ol Ed's that resembled screens from like
two generations ago well I mean in the
contemporary landscape I don't know I
don't know what was going on with that
it's definitely a different bin and what
the v30 got because you can see the
differences in uniformity and like it's
the one on the pixel to Exhale looks a
lot better to me but it's okay it's fine
it's acceptable but it's nothing
compared to the screen on the note 8
like when things in a whole world man I
think I think there's definitely
something to be said for Samsung's
acumen there right yeah they they put
money on OLED with the first generation
Galaxy S so in terms of refinement
change over time we've only seen LG
dabble yeah we saw them dabble with the
Flex then they kind of left it for a
while went back to LCDs then they came
back and now we need to see whether or
not they can in earnest iterate evolve
and improve but that's not to say that
we haven't seen other challenges like I
it's kind of a tricky tricky question
you know begging and borrowing the
different pieces between like a V 30 and
a node 8 because you I would have to
make a choice between a ruddier display
from samsung this year where I felt like
the galaxy s7 was a noticeably more
color accurate display and especially in
terms of white balance and that's
something I'm looking at dead-on versus
a blue color shift and more gradation in
gray tones yeah and the V 30 right so
when I'm looking at my phone off access
the LG v 30 is is definitely not as nice
but when I'm looking on access my whites
are super red Samsung's displays this
year so I kind of feel like OLED in
general is being stretched to its limits
and we're noticing compromises when we
were in like galaxy s6 territory we
didn't notice those compromises one
because OLED was still a more unique
aspect of Samsung phones but Samsung
also
I think could manage the supply chain
better you know they didn't have to deal
with any compromises because any any
screen that was performing below like
the most supreme top tier levels
performance could just be excised from
the market now they have so many
different things that they need to
supply for that
I think we're noticing across the board
OLED production is being sort of
hammered by this demand yeah you know
the good thing is that well good
relatively speaking is that if it's
affecting across the board there's not
there's no favoritism in terms of what
yields people get and what you know
other kinds of it's all the pretty much
the same unless you go for a different
supplier and altogether now Xiaomi did
experiments with Chinese manufacturer
when it was doing the red meat stew or
for one of those things uh BOE was one
of them and you know like there was so
much talk about them being like a very
affordable device and like the $200 mark
with an OLED display and I'm not sure if
we've ever actually seen a unit or the
weight was seen a unit talking about
that
because but at some point they
transitioned over to an LCD and I'm sure
if they produce to know that you did
overall well and who's supplying oh
let's furred for like oboe and Huawei is
that Samsung to from yeah that's what
the the to buy one Full HD that's a
Samsung panel almost assuredly they're
they're pretty much fee other than LG
they're kind of like monopolizing the
whole market like no sense good that
LG's moving into it'll be a while until
they're actually competitive well I want
to give them to Jen I think I think
that's what it's gonna take to iterate
because it's not just not whether or not
they can make the panel its LG's I think
biggest biggest issue is QA if the
consistency of what they can manufacture
and put out their weight it's probably
their biggest issue I mean all this
money that Apple and Google are putting
into LG it's not for nothing they have
to show something for us yeah there
should be returned with all the money
that they're spending on research well
but I mean like that's also what's kind
of interesting is with LG's dabbling and
the fact that they kind of built a
reputation for pio lead in wearables
yeah that's true
not that they were absent I mean if you
look at the screen on a flex to versus
the V 30 we do see progress especially
at the pixel density that that LG was
able to ramp up on that I mean you know
they definitely have some ways to go but
III kind of feel it's like we didn't see
them in a vacuum just fail
we've seen them iterate and improve it's
just we haven't seen the constant mmm
you know has been working on for eight
years yeah it's like the the the the
machine of progress that Samsung has
demonstrated over all this time let's
okay let's let's get into this you're
talking about a topic sorry no this is
exactly the kind of tangents I wanted to
get into I to get us back on though the
the biggest story I was on set at Newegg
and people were asking me about Huawei
and what's going on with with sort of
the federal law enforcement agencies
getting involved in this discussion Ryan
I want to kick write off into this
advisory and from my own personal
attempts at trying to track this story
and trying to dig up sources and seeing
who's actually commenting on this how
concerned do you think consumers could
should be and do you think we'll ever
see a state law enforcement agency
deliver the kind of evidence to back up
some of the concerns that they're that
they're currently disclosing right now
well good comparison that kind of answer
both questions is that okay one plus so
one plus had a couple of recent the
security and privacy snafus right
nificant snap yeah and each time they
get called out like immediately for
people notice that this isn't the sort
of stuff that it sneaks by and if a tiny
relatively tiny OAM not quite start-up
like one class is able to
not get away with something like this
there's no way that how always doing any
of the stuff like they're being accused
of because someone would have noticed
people dig him through doing packet
inspection would have seen things being
sent by the handset it's not happening I
think that it's totally it's hyperbole
and to that extent I don't think
consumers consumers really need to need
to worry and I don't think that there's
gonna be any evidence from any of the
agencies that have leveled they're not
quite accusations against either of the
companies because if there were any
evidence smarter people than them would
have found it right well I'm glad I'm
really glad you brought up oneplus
because my examples in interest sort of
speaking casually like for other just
tech enthusiasts oneplus and then also
when we were going through some of those
issues with the spyware that was being
preloaded on lenovo laptops for example
it didn't take long for the market to
discover that abuse of user data yeah
like we moved pretty quickly from you
know putting putting out notices to
discussing this in public for it to make
make the news why is it that you do you
feel because again I mean we don't have
any any proper I mean I would be more
than happy to sort of change my position
on this if the FBI or the CIA or the NSA
could point to some kind of evidence in
the behavior of these products in the
market abusing user data as soon as I
can see some information I will I will
be on board the consumer protection
stance on this why do you feel that ZTE
and Huawei were targeted as opposed to a
company like oneplus whose sort of quiet
parent organization is also a humongous
smartphone manufacturer it's not like we
should let Oppo off the hook for one of
the tinier sort of offshoot brands that
utilizes their manufacturing I don't
really know I mean it'd be conjecture
either way I couldn't say but it could
be good to place on this man because I
think I have a larger idea of what the
overall arching theme is because alright
here we go here we go it's jewels so
we're gonna we're gonna go into like
sci-fi 13 this was indicate edition yeah
but this was indicated back in the 5g
nationalization report that was released
or leaked out actually by the National
Security Council member and it talked
really about the need or the desire to
have like localized domesticate all the
telecom equipment that would be needed
for that network to protect against one
of the largest growing threats in cyber
security and as the Chinese government
they've been doing a lot of suppression
in their regions of information
suppression a lot of that kind of thing
going on and cuale and ZTE are the two
biggest telecom equipment providers in
this industry now whether that relates
to their consumer side business is up
for debate we're still trying to sneak
that out but this has been found in 2012
investigations where ZTE was violating
trade sanctions by providing to Iranian
carriers Iranian suppliers and also
Huawei their I wasn't really trying to
dig into the 24 case against them in
that concern but the general case is
that telecom equipment from it was
really a relaying data back to servers
back in China or something like that and
with the overall concerned that cuale
was founded by a former People's
Liberation Army member that has been
growing in terms of their cyber security
digital operations going going to that
there's there's always this you know
thread that they these intelligence
agencies can draw in terms of you know
ratcheting up more surveillance more you
know more protective more defensive
measures against China
so it's not just theirs it's a very
complicated situation but I understand
why you know this kind of conclusions
being drawn here well I think you know
because I agree with you I think the
reason why Oppo is in under scrutiny is
because Oppo hasn't been trying to make
significant inroads in 5g
telecommunications backhaul and
equipment in North America where as
we've seen Huawei and ZTE like they have
consumer sides of their business but you
know their main bread and butter is like
actually string in the towers together
to get people connected to these
networks and services I just find it
interesting and and Ryan do you think
that you know again cuz we're we're just
devolving into wild speculation here
like I don't think any of us will ever
get proper disclosure or evidence to
back up these these assertions and it's
why the whole inside of this hat is is
lined with tin foil this week as a
problem as it should be it should be
every week appropriately prescient for
me to to keep up with the tin foil
attire sube your head if I what Julie I
want to yes and you so bad there and I
kind of just want to get back to the
topic at hand
doesn't this start to feel maybe a
little overly punitive when we're
looking at the divisions between a
consumer side a consumer facing aspect
of a business and then what that
represents for the larger overall
telecommute
telecommunications side of that same
brand label I don't know if I mean I
think that it would be difficult for
them to impose restrictions in terms of
well you can you can compete in this
business but not that business that's
some that's a level of control that we
haven't quite ever pushed to my
knowledge in terms of allowing or not
allowing companies to only operate
within specific areas you can do
telecommunications but you can't do
handsets er I don't know I well that's
actually kind of I mean and again I'm
kind of glad you phrased it that way
because isn't doesn't that illustrate
part of this where the threat of a
Huawei getting any kind of toehold in
the United States might make some kind
of distribution or sales channel or tech
deal even just a little bit easier if
they're able to operate with the backing
of a made
u.s. carrier I mean yes fear the fear of
this of this relationship from a
government perspective again wild
speculation and we have no disclosure or
evidence to back this up is if Huawei is
in talks with AT&T even just for selling
a phone in 18 t stores
doesn't that make it easier for them to
build a relationship where they could
become a primary supplier of 18 t's
future communications gear that's
certainly possible but look at zzzt
provides a ton of carrier locked super
cheap hands that's right now and I don't
know if that's happened as a result of
that like I'm selling these 50 and $80
$100 phones they're free on contract - I
don't know Verizon Sprint whoever buys
these whatever networks carry the low
NZT hand says doesn't seem to have given
them any inroads in telecom for those
companies so I don't know flip side of
things I mean blue American based kind
of a phone rebadging company that gets
its software its firmware vended from a
Chinese supplier that you know they
didn't take out the data collection
features that they have you know have
four standard for Chinese phones like
that's why isn't that being brought up
as it comes more of a concern in the
short term at the very least because
they're I mean I feel like that's that
would be more chrétien's
no I know I agree I think that's why
there has been some kind of confusion or
I mean it just leaves you with a sense
of like why now and why these two if
they're offering this kind of an
advisory calling out to companies and
the two companies that are also gonna be
most responsible for building 5g
networks around the world opposite
Qualcomm I mean some of their strongest
competitors there when we have other
examples of other manufacturers that
have had problems and yet we've never
seen a law enforcement advisory against
what Oh both phones yeah or or or blue
or vivo or any of the other unlocked
unlocked supplied phones it's something
that again I doubt we'll ever get some
kind of clear disclosures to whine
and why this but it's gonna fuel a
plenty of speculation and a lot of
distrust of the very agencies making
this advisory yeah I've got a good yarn
here from shrug by you know there's
they're sort of a general error' of
distrust happening right now with some
of these with some of these outlets
that's certainly political climate yeah
and to that guy did you arm here from a
renowned report on Twitter but the hash
tag P and weekly let's go straight to
the point the Chinese government isn't a
saint neither is Huawei we know that the
Chinese government has a strict control
of the digital lives of its citizens
this control is made possible by
companies like CTE Xiaomi Huawei but
also companies like Apple who comply
with the local rules to have their
digital services available in China and
to be honest the situation isn't
different in the United States or Europe
the biggest difference is that
authoritarian countries aren't secret
about it well the government of the free
world spy on us either in secrecy are
with homeland security as an excuse but
do we really think that following or the
Chinese government even will be stupid
enough to allow or require any kind of
backdoor on enterprise and consumer
products only for it to be discovered
for the whole world to lose its trust on
the brand money comes before everything
else and the Chinese government knows
the amount of money that quali ZTE and
others make besides Huawei besides
Huawei can be considered a national
pride symbol like Samsung is for South
Korea which you know is it's interesting
to see how China because at this point
China is well into its progression of
mixing capitalistic facets into their
economy where they're still sharing a
whole bunch of you know a lot of the
Communists of socialists kind of
structures there and but there's more
concern now more than ever in terms of
the government's we've recently seen a
president xi jinping kind of addressed
this in you know continuing on in his
range whereas
you know other times other presidents
have just you know faded away let linen
room for a successor to change you know
give a little fresh breath of things
whereas well there's no clear successor
yet and it's steffel that that there
might be one in the next five or ten
years so now that there's they're
starting to be a pulse more towards she
and his ideas and some of them involve
more protectionism for China and more
kind of the spreading of Chinese ideals
and I think we're seeing a number of
must sort of throw up some walls and
barriers just the the international
trading climate right now I think has
been strained by recent political events
one of one of the best like cynic
responses that I saw on the reddit post
for this story though it was someone
writing and I honestly couldn't tell if
they were trying to make a joke or not
you know you get into like that pose law
of how much distress do we have for you
know government agencies and with
someone saying well because Huawei uses
hisilicon Kirin chipsets the CIA CIA
probably had a harder time building in
back doors and the replies to that
comment were split like 50/50 between
people laughing like oh haha that's
really funny and then like yeah because
the NSA is doing all this stuff and like
you know chemtrails awesome I love that
this was like someone immediately went
to you know there are the law
enforcement is offering an advisory
against Huawei because they're too
difficult to spot no I'm telling you the
Chinese are turning the frauds gay and
later well will our sponsor is not
selling disaster buckets of food that
you can also turn to the furniture
before we get to our sponsor and I
apologize the sponsor I did also just
want to lightly touch on this because in
in light of this political news you know
losing a fight badly and trying to get
Huawei phones into US carriers on for
spent issuing an advisory against the
security of these devices it's just the
wrong time to be entertaining shenanigan
review common trickery on trying to
encourage people to buy your phones this
Best Buy this Best Buy problem was a bad
look for huawei I can't imagine anyone
being able to properly justify that and
it instantly create sort of an Arab
ill-will around the brand yeah it
definitely didn't make any sense like
though there was a justification that
they they had two different marketing
operations happening simultaneously and
wires got crossed somewhere and they
asked people from one promotion - to
participate another story for my cat but
yeah I I don't I don't know I don't I
can't imagine that they were doing
intentionally but maybe well but I mean
we've seen we've seen other companies
like I you know coming back to other
manufacturers that have been trying to
crack North America it's a really tricky
market 85% of phone sales are between
Samsung and Apple it's very mature
market but there's money here so you
want to you want to try and make some of
that cash off of North American
consumers especially for their pension
for buying premium really high quality
devices I I look at like the old ad
shenanigans that oneplus went through
and you know how much they've grown up
in terms of their branding and their
advertising and their outreach and it
kind of feels like Kwame is making some
of those rookie mistakes in this market
you know even even if this was a
completely innocuous mistake between two
different divisions of huawei PR that's
kind of a rookie mistake to let
something get that far into actual
public disclosure for a public community
you know that that's gonna come back
around and it was if I'm looking at the
actual you know posts that Huawei
produced that people screenshotted it
looked like this was by design it didn't
look like you know oh hey beta testers
make sure you get out there and do this
and
you know instead it looked like they
were actually trying to gain Best Buy's
review system and you know I'll be fair
to Bali in this aspect Best Buy
shouldn't be putting out a review system
for a product in pre-sales this wasn't
there should be no room for beta testers
elsewhere product users elsewhere to be
able to comment on this know this should
be a completely isolating experience
given that SKUs mean all the difference
in terms of what features get used and
others I agree I agree with you if um
companies like Huawei and this is also
something that I think we shared is a
criticism of LG if they had a cohesive
launch strategy you know I I think if I
were Best Buy I would have a really hard
time trying to say well this is a phone
that's been out in the international
market for months we want to sell stuff
you know Best Buy Best Buy has an
obligation to their shareholders to try
and maximize profits on on products sold
and they're gonna be buying pallets of
these phones they were gonna want them
to move and they know that there's an
international community of people that
have already been using this device I
think it would be financially
irresponsible of them to hold off on
link generation SEO and the type of sort
of free advertising that comes with the
smartphone community to say you can't
review this device because it's we're
not technically selling it yet even
though we know there are tons of people
out there that have had positive and
negative experiences with this product
just getting around the issue here of
the media fake news and fake reviews and
all that stuff I guess well I mean you
know unfortunately I don't know that
there is a good solution I I just don't
think we should task best by you know
like I don't think we should task a
retailer we're trying to unravel that
problem in the greater context of like
social media and really based phones
yeah I think you know they were taken
advantage of I think that's a that's
about as far as we go the more we make
best buy make users jump through hoops
to justify the content that they try and
produce on Best Buy site
to the detriment of its more to the
detriment of consumers than it would be
to their protection I am oh well I mean
they could have room review
verifications like Amazon does where you
know they make sure you actually bought
the product but in this case it wouldn't
make any difference because nobody's
received it yet right right well no one
no one has been able to receive it from
Best Buy it has been available in the
international community yeah so how do
you how do you verify I mean like you
can't you can't I mean like you need to
send us your ESN your IMEI matches one
on this list it's cool it's good it's
good and you know give us all your sim
card data and your biometric security
and then we'll do it you really do own
this thing the only way that you would
know is like a receipt tracking number
at least so you can just put that in but
but that's only generated from Best Buy
sales and yeah other people will review
it too mmm I don't know how to feel in
terms of just having that cross
contamination or cross pollination of
don't seem to care yeah well didn't they
pull all of the user generated reviews
okay yeah all those but but that's also
still a part of part and parcel is Best
Buy in a way they are a Content producer
on every product that they sell and so
you know the the site is the the the may
10 product page on Best Buy's website
still links to numerous reviews from
other outlets so there was like I guess
that could be their first wave
verification if you can't buy it in the
United States maybe you just link to
android police and pocket now that seems
like a whole lot of work to do for I
mean I don't even I don't think it's
unrealistic of them to have just if
people are purchasing internationally to
allow them to submit reviews ahead of
time but I don't know if I don't there's
not I was trying to set us up man oh
sorry
even all the other little people or
something like next time I'll go for the
bait I'm sorry
I was like how can I turn best buy into
rotten tomatoes or something explore and
users funny I I you know I think
something like that is probably gonna be
coming soon doesn't diverge do that on
their reviews someone does and gadget we
also do user scores like if you go to
one of our phone reviews you can also
click click you know like number scores
I think if they also aggregate them from
other outlets don't they I came in oh oh
that I don't know yeah we haven't
started collecting other sites review
scores it's just everyone has like a
different ranking system like I think
we've got a 10 point decimal you know so
you can have like a score the young the
is the seven point three five two I
don't know how well that would jive with
like you know a 5 point score a thumb up
thumb down something like that so we
just always to go to sort what what is
what is a you know a seven on the verge
versus you know a three cows on a pocket
now DxO mark where it's undefined skill
can go past 100 without people without
having told people about that yeah it's
that's not a good look I there I I mean
the thing is every individual said I
think can be internally consistent
I think the XO is phenomenally
consistent in how they rank scores I
think their arrival at a final number
score for their cameras does a
disservice to the conversation
yeah because one phone that scores a
ninety might still not be of the right
fit for you versus a phone that scores
like an eighty three depending on yeah
because what absolute doesn't tell you
everything about the entire performance
spectrum of it you got a look at the
individuals that's why that's why we do
review categories when you look at look
at something we don't just say oh the
phones a 10-inch by it no we've got
we've got screen we've got audio we've
got software we talk about the details
behind it so well talking about the
details I think we should take just a
quick second to to shout out our sponsor
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be like I can't read the intro of our
podcast thankfully for once I actually
pulled off a sponsor plug in one take
overly terrible there was a perfect read
because you should just read ads all the
time it's like it should be my job one
whole advertorial podcast you know um we
should go through before before we kick
into the second half of this podcast and
some of the other the other stories that
we're leading into for MWC I do want to
get just a quick rundown on some of the
the tweets that we begin and we've been
getting using the PN weekly hashtag and
I want to go back I hearted one here
where did it go somewhere there are so
many so this comes from from Vinny mad
rocks og Vinny mad rocks I can't
actually say is Twitter name because it
would kick us out of being pg-13 P and
weekly what do you think the odds are
that the new LGV 30 will have the
Snapdragon 805 you know the big push for
a lot of services this year I think
machine learning AI algorithms they are
processing stuff like that Ryan do you
think LG's gonna adopt more of an apple
style tick-tock
where you put out a piece of hardware
and then you just give it some internal
bump a year later I know that's the
current rumor right what was it it was
originally leaked as the V 30s and then
yesterday or the day before
LG put out a PR about their new AI
camera
whatever and yeah I mean it certainly
looks to be that way we did hear the
news they made a big announcement of it
that they were going to reassess how
they did things in the future and not do
a yearly release cycle so I mean I don't
know if it's just gonna be a tick-tock
like you're describing where they re
release the current flagship with purely
software improvements in which case I
guess all the people who bought the old
phone are gonna be pretty pissed or
because if all the only difference is
software why is it just an update but I
don't know I don't know I guess we'll
see cuz I mean we'll probably hear about
it in a couple weeks here I for me it's
this would be actually a really high
hope on my list of things what LG needs
to address and fix about themselves
I support I I wonder if they didn't
spend so much time reinventing the wheel
in terms of frame and design and build
and individual features like camera tech
every single year if they be able to use
some of those resources towards
providing better update security patches
and bug fixes or screens separate
division come on now actually because
that's that's really funny is like some
of the most revolutionary work I think
I've ever seen was from LG display and
having conversations with them like they
have almost nothing to do with LG
consumer hardware like wasn't there
it'll be two completely separate
companies in the way that they report to
the top brass at LG and wasn't there
some news I don't know if you guys
reported on it this was just recently er
today
um the they're doing a new phone that's
gonna have a white sub pixel be their
next flagship that's allegedly launching
in June is going to have a RGB W
Orangemen yeah so I mean that that could
actually be kind of kind of um that
could be a nice way to address some of
the disparity and display quality if
that gives them sort of the subpixel
advantage over Samsung's pentile
displays because you know I think
Samsung made a concerted play this year
to say why bother going more pixel dense
in fact consumers seem to be fine
with 1080p we're not even gonna tell
them out of the box that's what our
phones are actually running at and it
that kind of gets them around some of
the some of the nitpicky er comments on
things like the pentile versus RGB
stripe that you'll see on an LCD display
yeah I'm curious to see yeah that could
be interesting III mean again if LG can
iterate and actually do something
different I I you know that that's a
nice little perk in having some real
competition in this space for a change
yeah well RGB W can get bright can get
real bright they when they did it on
their TVs LG did it on their they
started doing it on the TVs in like mm
mm 10 I would say maybe 2009 um the big
deal was how much brighter they got
because you had a white sub pixel that
was able to just blast light and I'm
curious to see because this is going to
be an LCD panel it's not going to be
Emily D and we might this might be like
the brightest LCD we've ever seen
because of that so it'll be it'll be
cool to see LG kind of pushing the
envelope even though in so many other
ways they're having difficulty doing
that one small way something really cool
here well cuz I think that would
actually match some of the work that
Samsung has been doing it's been really
interesting in the TV space watching
these companies sort of dance around
different qualifications like Samsung is
all in on OLED for phones and watches
but you know their highest end TVs
they're they're using that cue LED
technology instead because of issues
like burnin where you would think that
would be a bigger deal on a phone screen
which has consistent UI elements that
you would need to worry about them
burning into the screen it's funny like
with each different division of those
companies how they're approaching the
conversation in different ways with
different qualifiers with different cons
that they're trying to work out for
consumers everybody's trying to convince
everybody that what they have is the
best regardless of what it is they have
I can't wait till you see releases Super
LCD 100 yeah someone else was
complaining about that - I didn't Goren
using the P n weekly hashtag you know
why isn't HTC lowering the price of
their non OLED phones our manufacturing
expenses in Taiwan objectively too
I I you know I think I cut down on the
Taiwanese manufacturing because they
would outsource to China which would be
cheaper more than that is isn't it isn't
it just like price isn't necessarily
reflective of you know what goes into
the product and the build quality of the
product price is what the market can
bear and if agency they consult a phone
at you know a premium price tag you know
I think a perfect example is the HTC One
a9 that's not always the only problem
you got Sony who as a result of the the
strength of the Japanese market no
matter what their phones are gonna be
expensive it's no such thing as a budget
Sony vice and they never will be because
of that you know you know like what what
is kind of interesting is seeing them
dance around their like their mid tier
strategy
what were the phones that they they had
on hand at CES and again that feels
anachronistic like that feels like a mid
Ranger from four or five years ago not
what we count mid-range like premium mid
Rangers today at that kind of price tier
yeah when you get to those levels then
you have the l cedar it like there's
still some stratification going on with
Sony so they have to figure out I'll
still put it out there though like you
know their fingerprint sensor being one
of the most obnoxious things to kind of
work around for the North American
market like get to it but what I mean is
like currently today like I think
probably their best bang for buck is the
XE compact like because you can pick it
up for under 500 bucks it's got the
Qualcomm 835 it came with Android 8 like
that was a screamer little phone that
that like was the one the one sort of
offshoot of current Sony had seemed to
at least kind of make sense in terms of
price performance but yeah moving right
along we definitely want to get into the
to the main sort of topic second topic
on this week's show and that's breaking
down I Android police you guys have been
putting a lot of effort into you know
putting together your coverage pocket
now we're also doing the same looking at
what's going to be
the hottest releases come MWC and and I
think we should probably lead off with
Samsung I think Samsung is gonna be
walking away with the most Inc for
products around this release now do you
think this is kind of a turn for Samsung
utilizing the tech press it's gonna be
out in Barcelona as opposed to you know
forcing the issue on their own press
conference way far away from MWC do you
think that this is a return to that tech
community or do you think that Samsung
isn't as confident in this product being
able to draw its own press coverage I
don't know I can't really speak with too
much authority on the subject at MWC
because this is my first one and I'm
really excited because you've been to
cover like a CES right no no no this is
my first event okay so oh man Ryan I am
so jealous I feel all mobile focused
events are downhill from MWC I the way
that MWC is organized the way the show
is put together the events that happen
around Barcelona not necessarily even on
the show floor yeah that thing is
buttoned down tight it is so well run
and you're gonna go to an MWC and then
as soon as you cover something like Eva
or CES you're like this isn't is nice
but the press rooms aren't nearly as
well-stocked I'm really looking forward
to it
good job dude yeah I went straight to
the top look at me so proud of you
um but no so you know I we we had this
image what was a galaxy s3 or galaxy has
for where they were still kind of
piggybacking on MWC after that they
would just do their own events around
the world especially hitting the New
York tech press it is kind of an
interesting return to see them making so
much noise about this February timeframe
where they know that the tech press is
going to be in Barcelona
yeah yeah I mean there is the fact that
it seems to be a little bit more
iterative I mean you had the s
in going into the s7 gap here and then
si gave us the infinity display and now
we're going into another little trough
going in so uh you know anything to help
out the extra you know to me and second
year of a the same side would be really
appreciate at this point and you know
it's with all the coverage all the
people all the big people that are going
to be you know covering this kind of
thing they're going to have this as
their main priority for this you know
yeah and they're already all there so
they don't have to worry necessarily
about attracting the attention there
where the attention is so if if it's not
something to be super excited about by
itself people will still talk about it
because we're gonna be there I'm gonna
be there you're gonna be there well what
what is it the sense been sort of like a
with the the Android police editorial
staff and then some of your readers it
kind of feels to me that the essay was a
good recovery from the issues that
Samsung faced with the note 7 but in
scrambling to recover from the note 7
some things felt like they weren't quite
ready for primetime like the the
fingerprint scanner location I know it's
finally in the right spot right well so
the leaks make it look like it is fun so
what is the sense here I mean you know
Samsung didn't need to fix a lot from
the SI in the the opinion of a lot of
the tech press do we need them to do
anything more radical is it is it okay
that Samsung takes a year just to kind
of clean up a few of the little design
funky well maybe I mean I've still no
matter how much time goes on you will
still hear people complaining about
Samsung software as we talked about
earlier and I've heard the same
complaints with the SaaS 8 plus is that
compared to the software on the node 8
it's just not as good and so maybe we'll
see some better software on the whatever
the upcoming phone is camera can always
be improved camera phones can always be
proved the pixel to and to excel sort of
dethroned the glory of the OData and the
SI but if rumor is there to to be to be
believed it sounds like Samsung's gonna
be doing some
cool stuff with the camera on the yes 9
it's totally unique that so we'll see I
mean there is only so much that the
variable aperture that's being teens
from F 1.5 to 2.4 I'm not sure if it's a
truly variable or if it's just to set
apertures but like I'm not sure I can't
really imagine what kind of little
tricks they could pull off of that so
it's gonna be interesting to see on that
front I want to talk about price because
this is the sign of another like a
little step up towards heaven in terms
of just me just getting the price up mm
are you trying to lock yourself in a
closet with Samsung right now are you
hoping for your 7 minutes I mean I
apologize for how body the show just got
giving me a case of the vapors there so
so 100 pounds more is the word your
thoughts I'm not gonna well yes yes it
was already expensive I'm sorry go ahead
oh no no because Ryan because I think
that goes hand in hand with the other
thing that I wanted to bring up to what
we've got this lobster potting effect on
pricing again what the market can bear
and you can't back it off because that
price tag does seem to speak to people
as to quality product it's an emotional
response it costs the same as an iPhone
that must mean they're trying to make it
compete against an iPhone but do you
think that that price is gonna go
hand-in-hand with bifurcating the Galaxy
S line for the first time having
features on the bigger s phone that
won't make it to the smaller s phone
something that Samsung has historically
been very good about not dividing their
consumer facing fashion handset maybe
maybe I mean I haven't heard anything to
that effect but like an explanation that
like that would make sense if there
is more a price difference between the
two models I could be rose-colored
glasses of my youth but I remember a
time when flagship phones were $500 now
we're up around a thousand I don't I
don't if they're gonna be 100 pounds
more what does I work out to usually
when it's in the u.s. at least a hundred
bucks more like we're talking about a
thousand dollar phone here that's I
would expect the s9 + to start coming in
somewhere around the price of last
year's note so we're in that $900 plus
territory it's it's tricky because you
don't want to have to have the like I
think any conversation in tech
commentary is it worth it you know the
second you ask that question I think
that question is inherently toxic to the
design of a gadget it's more about can
you can you really find out who this
phone is for I have a harder time
nailing the audience at a $900 price
point in the United States especially
like in my own circle of family and
friends people holding onto their phones
longer and quite a few of my family
members looking mid-range and
entry-level you know my my
millennial sister going with moto G
Series phones and like fit millennial -
it's okay well like I'm right on that
cusp or no one wants me I'm not a Gen X
or I'm not a millennial no one wants me
my money is irrelevant but brick right
on the question exciting like also
making that that choice where she
doesn't need certain bells and whistles
and if she smashes her phone replacing
the entire phone is less expensive than
replacing the back glass on an iPhone
yeah you know like you were starting to
entertain some of these conversations
more publicly in the United States and
it seems to be less of a virtue signal
or less of a fashion signal when you
pull out your phone like no one's really
that impressed if you have an iPhone
anymore you know a 3GS like that was a
status symbol yeah along with your purse
in your shoes now
it's ubiquitous like everyone needs to
have one it's less of a luxury item
I don't know if that's necessarily the
case I know in the circles that we we
circulate within that might be the case
that it's no longer a big deal to have
an iPhone but I know that there was a
discussion about this subject on the
reddit actually recently and someone
pointed out a comment a tag on Twitter
something about green bubbles and I
guess in popular opinion people are
actually still really into the idea of
the iPhone being a superior product of a
status symbol and how if you have green
bubbles in your your SMS your chat up
get avoid that guy so I mean the color
is green yeah oh that's hilarious
so but but again like that that's that's
sort of an emotional response it's not
necessarily the rational response I yeah
I guess I am not into that lifestyle
where I would yeah be looking at the the
where a notification came in from well
that makes sense because I'm also an
Android user so we don't have a
messaging platform really speak I cry
every day I'm like every day I pour out
just like a little v for uh for for
Google Hangouts and what it could have
been so so yeah that's Samsung I'll be
curious to see if because one of the
rumors I'm most concerned about is is
like this will be the first galaxy that
has a different camera sensor for the
smaller phone again it's totally a rumor
we won't know until these things are
actually here but that makes me for some
reason that makes me squirrely that
makes me nervous about seeing Samsung do
something like that when before like the
biggest change between the s8 and the
si+ was just battery sizes and screen
size so it made sense that there was
very little difference between those two
handsets I really hope that we don't see
further division for Samsung Hardware
especially because I think they already
struggle to keep up with software
demands so if you have yet additional
differences between their phones well
it's already the joke isn't it already
the joke that you're not going to get an
update
for your Samsung phone until the next
phone is out yeah not to mention there's
always the Android dirty word
fragmentation because how much more
difficult if you've got different SK
uses they're all using the same hardware
part it's like oh well you know you
update one you can update both but it's
not the case if you've got two phones
that use two totally different sets of
hardware as well because then it's gonna
be more work to update them and then
they're locked on Verizon so you can't
even like get three months later you get
your update Oreo
so one of the things that I actually
think was kind of interesting someone
else posted this I'm so sorry I'm so bad
at at your attribution for you know like
when someone tweets me something and I
have to go back through my chain but
someone else had a theory that one of
the reasons why Samsung was entertaining
doing their s 9 release closer to MWC
was that they were gonna face
significantly less competition from
other players like LG do we do we think
LG's gonna try and join this
conversation with the tech press in
Barcelona in any meaningful way like
they might not have anything directly to
show off maybe they can talk about a
refresh on a V 30 or a g6 or something
like that but this used to be a staple
for them in doing outreach I mean it's
not just what you put the press release
out on it's also just maintaining all of
the relationships with all of the
authors and editors and reviewers that
are going to be on the ground there yeah
I don't know I they're definitely the
number of rumors about LG the V 30s or
whatever it's going to be called I've
been picking up as we get closer so I
definitely think that certainly sounds
to me like they're going to be
announcing something yeah yeah in terms
of that because Google we have bixby so
already they're kind of stepping behind
this now how well they are able to build
this out we're not sure maybe they could
have a more refined product by the end
but perhaps even the g7 maybe this
summer that maybe this fall or something
but you know just having this as a step
up and yet I think I think it was a good
idea to count
this developed is like this like the
grown pains process with an iteration of
the current flagship that sounds like a
pretty good thing to have a reliable
testament on but doesn't make it pretty
easy for a Samsung to come into MWC and
steal everyone's thunder with their
event though because now they don't need
a separate one HTC's not gonna be doing
anything else he's gonna be talking
about AI I mean it's they're pretty sure
does that does that leave like the major
player is Huawei as we we should expect
some kind of traction on a p20 or P 11
or whatever yes sir yeah again I mean
they'll probably call it six different
things for every different region that
they ship to is is this an opportunity
for a huawei to try and generate more
buzz or do we think that that barcelone
is going to be just unholy dominated by
Samsung discussion this year with
especially with the reason news about
Huawei I don't know everything that
every time we cover it every time you
cover it every time you know people from
various outlets discuss Huawei at MWC
it's going to be tinged with the recent
developments of the Senate talking about
how the FBI and CIA don't trust Huawei
so I don't know if I hope they can put a
positive spin on their PR at the event
because they need it
[Laughter]
yeah curat you know because III think
that's one of those things like we love
building up companies and tearing them
down and then we love to come back story
like all of this is is high drama for a
smartphone fans the know I was gonna say
but the the the the idea that this is an
opportunity for them to join the
discussion they'll have a public
platform the tech press is gonna be
there were we know any story about
Huawei is gonna come with the recent
issues they've had between Best Buy and
North American law enforcement so if
they if they can join that conversation
in a meaningful fashion that could
actually be a really big step towards
you know launching a new phone you know
they're in the mindshare right now
people are asking me about huawei
products
they see them we've seen them make
little tiny inroads you can buy a an
honor at you know target the May 10 has
had more interest I think than any other
hallway that I've reviewed in the past I
even showed it off on like morning news
here in LA like they actually let me
pull a phone that wasn't an iPhone like
a morning news broadcast
so they're there does seem to be this
broad awareness of a brand that two
years ago just completely didn't exist
it I guess it's just like do we have
faith that any kind of PR team right now
in this political climate can capitalize
on that awareness right now I think it's
certainly possible like they say there's
no there's no such thing as bad PR if
anything people are just talking about
Huawei now they're talking about them
with a distinctly negative connotation
as a result of North American law
enforcement but they're talking about
them and it's very easy to change a
conversation that's negative like that
positive I I'll be interested to see if
the CEO of hallway with his history of
going off-script manages to say anything
interesting at MWC just taking out that
hate on AT&T and Verizon is beautiful it
was beautiful yeah I'm gonna go against
the notion here of having this be such a
bit the government report be such a big
deal because they're already addressing
the rest of the world I mean the u.s. is
kind of a hard nut to crack but they're
trying to keep up the pace in Germany UK
the the markets that they're already
dominating and this is just another
flagship product that will add on to
that so if anything they have I think
there are more important fret of fish to
fry for the moments and they're just
trying to get I mean where are we going
to talk about because the p20 is not
going to matter to the US anyways they
never release feed major p-series things
with a with a splash at least in the US
where they tend to go for the mates more
often the part of CBS a lot of these
issues are probably irrelevant to the
international
Tech press that might be covering huawei
yeah so well we get rid of the logo in
there the under the screen bothers that
bothers me so badly
the peacocking put on the back in case
you were looking at your phone and you
forgot what phone you bought you can
always will sound gross what was a
peacock wha we getting back to just a
few of these other rumors uh other
companies are definitely gonna be trying
to make some noise I think one of the
more compelling designs I've seen I
would be me mixed to all those leaks
look beautiful don't they those leaks
look amazing I got into some really
spiky and heated conversations on my
personal channel as I was talking about
how I'm not a big fan of the iPhone 10
not me and that's fine for iOS users I'm
sure you can get used to it but I really
hope to not see a bunch of copycats and
we've seen some indication that there
are a few manufacturers that are looking
to piggyback on the knotch design the
unibrow design of the iPhone 10 and that
there was that story that Google was
gonna be building in better support for
Androids to recognize those kinds of
differences in hardware to adapt the UI
elements around something which might
intrude on the screen if you were to do
that I think Xiaomi may have just found
the best possible solution until we can
hide a camera sensor under the screen
yeah or until we can just rationalize
getting rid of the front-facing camera I
so infrequently use mine I'd be fine
getting a phone doesn't have it yeah I
know well the thing is like it that'll
never happen because I think there's
been such a consumer look at oh boy you
know Opel used to try and be bleeding
edge and then they came out with like 12
different selfie camera phones and which
Oppo was more successful yeah we're
definitely not the target audience for
this sort of stuff no I see I have this
dream that eventually a smartphone
manufacturer just like we were figuring
out fingerprint sensor under the display
I'm hoping that we can figure out selfie
camera under the display because it's
the biggest lie of science fiction is
that you can make eye contact with
whoever your video chatting with and
hear like maybe something we could make
that a reality and then not have
anything interrupting the top of the
screen instead but until we get to that
point the me macstew looks like a
phenomenal solution and they got rid of
the chin they must have switched to a
more lady to do it because they need
that flexible substrate to wrap around
like that's what's gotta be gotta be a
Modi and you pair that with like a
really hot chips I get that a 45 in
there give me some RAM and some storage
MIUI and you and you like Nova Launcher
on top okay one dream one can dream I
still have hopes that we'll see we'll
see even more manufacturers sort of
joining Android one and giving some of
those solutions some attention for first
world markets I just I feel so many
consumers are left out in the cold for
even just the basics like we were just
talking about Android one in our podcast
yesterday um it's not really anything
like what they said it it'd be it's
Android one was supposed to be for
emerging markets and now it's really
just the new Google Play edition and
we've got Android go is going to replace
the old Android one and soon enough
Android goes gonna be a thousand dollars
and then we'll have like an Android yeah
or and you like at some point do they
even just say it's Android for the poor
the lesson UK edition of Android oh my
god less versions of names no even my
crying to face things like you know
Windows Signature Edition where you you
can't release this product unless you
promise you're not gonna fill it with a
whole bunch of crap and that's what
Signature Edition means and like there
until we can get project fuchsia off the
ground where it would make Google they
would give Google more of an iron-fisted
approach to managing an OS architecture
it's likely there be way less tinkering
behind the scenes available for they
could be just as draconian in terms of
Google Play certification requirements
and accomplish things that way they just
choose not to well but I mean we've been
seeing we've been seeing the move in
that direction though look at like yeah
little yeah look at project treble you
know you had to sign on to project
treble if you release a phone that's
that comes pre-loaded with Oreo yeah and
and I knew the new rule about ads you
can't have an app that monetize is on
the lockscreen unless that's its sole
function and also the the changes to
background processes yeah you know you
know you you can't really run your own
custom software solution for managing
background resources now moving forward
there seems to be a little bit more
there that's all well and good but we're
still gonna continue to face this this
talking point like Bloomberg they so we
know Android P is gonna come out with a
whole bunch of different updates and new
software services probably a major focus
on AI machine learning algorithms
augmented reality blah blah blah blah
blah
the one thing Bloomberg focused on was
better support for the notch so that
Android phones can copy Apple they spent
two minutes on TV that was the main
takeaway that they decided to focus on
with the rumors coming out about Android
that's the easier idea to push right
haha androids are still copycats look at
everybody at laugh laugh at this
terminal ego sphere right but but isn't
a part of this just the fact that like
we're always going to have this problem
this image problem this optics problem
where a new version of Android comes out
and it might see 20% adoption in the
first year oh that is optimistic
like I was even trying to premise that
it isn't nougat up to almost 30 percent
now it's not a year old no it's it's
older than 18 months yes 15 months I
mean like what was the first nougat
shipping device that was it the pixel
that was the pixel wasn't it yeah that
was the the images came out in late
August and the pixels shipped in October
oh okay so no I was for some reason I
was pushing that even just a little I
was pushing that to like November so no
it is it is like 16 months so yeah I was
even picking up only just reached the
last platform distribution there's one
point five percent it's uh it's not
great I can quote them and I really do
believe that we'll see slower adoption
on Oreo because of some of those changes
to things like project treble yes and
mandatory and certifications it's this
is not a good luck for a platformer
though I don't see anything that
corrects this course until until Google
kind of just walks away and says screw
it we're gonna do the Microsoft business
model where we control everything well
we'll see we got to see what the
long-term effects of treble are going to
be because treble is you combine the
fact that we're gonna have treble with
new long term stable kernels that are
gonna be out for longer than two years
now we've got what six they're doing six
year releases for LTS so between the two
you've got treble releases or the treble
architecture which makes it much easier
to do updates and you have the fact that
the hardest thing to about updates is
getting the binaries and your kernel
working on your device you've got six
years of support on your kernel so it'll
make delivering updates a lot easier so
in in two or three years we might see a
huge upswing in terms of the rate of
updates to the latest version and it
could entirely solve the fragmentation
problem once all devices have been
switched over to trouble because it will
yeah but I mean like so I mean this is
this is this is what we're hoping for
yeah yeah we won't we won't know until
until it's been years from now two or
three years we'll have a good idea
the only a few devices support rebel
right now so here's here's my super
cynical counterpoint to that argument
where if Google tries to exert more
pressure over the Android ecosystem
again just just super low probability I
don't think this is a likely outcome and
I not advocating for anything like this
just as we're getting into one of those
major refreshes like Google tries to
transition over to something like
project fuchsia and I'm saying like six
or seven year time timeframe from from
where we are today that's a huge
opportunity for someone else to walk in
the space and do something disruptive
like if we ever thought that Tizen could
be an actual competitor that's exactly
the wedge moment where Samsung could
just say you know what we've got all the
infrastructure we need we've got all our
own custom services we'll roll our own
and everyone loves Bixby you know there
you go or you know like I really I will
be very disappointed if even four years
from now three years from now we are
still interacting with mobile data
services in the same block face glowing
rectangle touch squared get app kind of
way this is and I'm gonna take us off
for just another short - a little
tangent but how did you uh did you guys
check out Intel vaunt
set the glasses the glasses so with all
of the data that we're collecting on
things like machine learning camera
algorithms and and a are starting to
make its presence known to consumers the
idea that I could just pop on a pair of
glasses and have lasers shoot directly
into my eyes to give me a heads-up
display 24/7 365 would go a long ways
towards me never wanting to pull my
phone out of my pocket ever again
yeah you wouldn't need one at that point
right and so is it is it as critical it
my theory is it would become less
critical my hypothesis not my theory my
hypothesis would be it would be even
less critical it would mean even less to
me what front-end graphic UI operating
system I'm run
on my pocketable glowing rectangle when
information is organically delivered to
me for most of the social interactions
that I need to have for some of the work
but you wouldn't have the app ecosystem
that's part of the problem is if you
abandon something like Android you've
got a huge library of of applications to
draw upon and that suddenly all of your
consumers would no longer have access to
Samsung's switches to Tizen if it
doesn't have some kind of backwards
compatibility with emulation or
something with Android applications
there gonna be a lot of angry people
well but if the the zeitgeist of that is
happening at the same time is a major
shift in interacting with that data and
your hands and you can do it make a
separate protocol for smart glasses to
interact with your facebook
notifications like you know you already
have to redesign the feed so that it can
pop up on my eye and I'm using like head
gestures to like like everyone develops
nervous tics or Tourette's commands or
you move your hand in the air if that's
all ready to change then I think it's
less dangerous for a company to go off
and try and roll their own at that point
it's just in our SDK that they have to
pile on top and update every so often so
and they'll have to employ new teams for
that it's just I mean the if they're
going to have to make that investment
then they have to do it works in the
first place if we can enter a
transitionary period like that
I suppose the magnitude of the
transition doesn't matter anymore yeah
that's that's definitely true I do want
to wrap up get us just kind of get back
on track to finish up some MWC rumor
roundup and some of the other things I
this is something that I've I've been
noticing like this tiny but vocally
passionate little community of people
that were on board ZTE in the axon seven
um what have you guys seen maybe uh
on Android police like has there been
any chatter about the upcoming rumor
about a follow up finally a true
follow-up to the axon 7 yeah I don't
remember if we reported on it I thought
I heard III know I remembered reading
something but I think we
I have decided not to cover it um they
just opened their Oreo beta program for
the axon seven right and I thought I'd
remember I guess maybe we'll see it MWC
I remembered vaguely reading something
about the new version but not know the
details they are to me a little bit more
stock the software and as presumably
they're gonna carry this over to what
they're doing for advocacy which is
apparently the blade veenai which was
leaked in perpetuity last year because
apparently they can't keep their sites
from publishing things do so so I mean
again it's it's a rumor that's feeling
pretty credible because ete leaks like a
sieve
but yeah the the hardware at least is
addressed in the software they they're
making promises but so far it seems
we're getting close to it and then the
axon 9 which we heard from when they
were launching the axon and in China
that was from the CEO saying talking
about the name of the next device which
would be the axon 9 so well see this is
where I think this conversation gets
kind of interesting again 2016 was an
amazing year for mid Rangers between the
honoré the the oneplus and the the axon
I loved Moto's and the pile of Moto's
right exactly especially like entry
level to that mid tier that was a really
strong year for breaking up phones in
that 3 to $500 price bracket and feeling
like we were really getting low
compromises competing up against much
more expensive flagships now with the
main players your Apple Samsung breaking
that thousand dollar priced here like is
this the right time for ZTE to try and
rejoin the conversation they sat out
2017 there was some disappointment that
there wasn't more momentum building on
the success of the axon 7 but do they
rejoin the conversation at a better time
yeah maybe especially if they don't push
the price too high because with as you
said with everybody pushing everything
up towards $1,000 the new 500 iPhone
could go far especially if it's if it
takes the oneplus route and you've got
the same
so see that you've gotten $1,000 fellas
right you got fast storage you've got
plenty of RAM you've got a good display
and the only thing you're sacrificing is
the software experience it's some level
then people will jump on it I know for
me especially if they can reach if they
can also emulate you know what made the
axon seven so interesting was that out
of nowhere comes this mid-range ER phone
that they delivered this amazing audio
experience yep it has centers and a huge
amp the wolfson deck yeah yeah like that
they this is my been my biggest problem
with LG is they objectively have a best
feature you know there are so many like
oh well it's your opinion if you like
pixel camera over a Galaxy camera or
vice versa
um it's an objective bullet point fact
that the V 30 has the best headphone
jack on any device so if you care about
listen to audio this should be on your
list and the axon 7 was right in that
league I mean it was so close to not
talk about it just feels like such a a
wasted opportunity and it worries me
that if axon 9 doesn't follow in that
footsteps with one feature just one
bullet point that's a true
differentiator then I think they're just
gonna get lost in the rest of the
conversation it's just another also-ran
a me-too product could be I mean the
differentiator could simply be prices
we're pointing out if enough yeah
because you've got stuff like the 1 + 5
t which price to performance and value
of the purchase it's my favorite phone
right now my pixel 2 XL is a better
phone objectively better phone in every
way but if I I can buy 2 5 TS for the
same quality I came from my pixel to
excel pixels bitty 5 T's a great phone
well and especially with Huawei absent
largely from these markets like we never
got the follow up honor rate either like
the honor 9 kinda made it out to a
couple markets but not not with any of
the same fanfare consistency or
reliability that the the honor 8 did so
I'm sorry I have to
I was looking at the game weekly feed
and this this mean from Renato just he's
just the rig it's a picture of Juan
looking depressed rain drops drop tops
my face when she that's awesome
Oh Renato I could kiss you on the mouth
I'm so cranky about the it's like I'm
actually not cranky about the iPhone 10
on its own I'm cranky about Apple doing
something that then other people are
going to emulate just because Apple did
it
I know because there are companies that
did the notch and didn't do it in an in
a way like that like the essential phone
which I know Jules absolutely loves for
no good reason
taken Jules own it own that means I
really like the shape of it but it's an
objectively it's not a not a great phone
but the latest Oreo update does Oreo
beta to improves it significantly well
did they ever clean up the the camera
its proud I mean if you've never used
like the camera on the pixel to its its
mid-range err but yeah once you've used
one of the really nice cameras it's not
it's not guys I think the thing that
really makes me great that that face
that mean came out of me complaining
about the setup and like III think
objectively knotch is a bad design
choice I think it yeah interrupts the
most important aspect of using a modern
smartphone is the display that's the
portal through which we utilize all of
this stuff and to cut into that you you
have to have a good reason I don't think
a beefier web cam a beefier selfie
camera is a good enough reason to
interrupt the display that we use for
everything
not really gaining anything from the
extra space it provides because all
that's up there or notifications it's
not like you're watching a video unless
you choose to intentionally accept a
piece of it being cut away if you zoom
in like you're not you not seeing it's
gonna be letterboxed what's the end
pillar that's probably - yeah I mean the
best benefit that you get out of that is
being able to control an alligator's
face and like that's doing well but but
again all of that everything that Apple
did with hardware I am sure is
scientifically better than replicating
those processes in software in real
world usage the consumer practicality of
that I think software will iterate
faster and improve upon the current
hardware experience and it's gonna look
dated in another six months it's gonna
look silly in another six months someone
passed me along do you guys ever watch
Lewis Rothman's videos he's that really
cranky repair guy on the East Coast he
has a whole bunch of videos talking
about how difficult it is to work with
Apple on repair guides and stuff like
that he's become a huge advocate for
right to repair - because he runs a shop
you know like that's yeah literally his
bread and butter
but he posted me that it posted this one
video and I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher
this and I'm also gonna have to censor
it a little um so it's not exactly what
he said but it's like companies that
copy Apple are looking you know say
you've got this businessman and he's
super successful and he's up at like
4:00 in the morning every day goes to
bed at like 11:00 or midnight it takes a
20 minute break for lunch on the pulse
in the thick of it hustling his butt off
and every day that he gets home from
work he rubs jello all over his chest
while listening to Yanni and it would be
like another person saying oh well to be
successful I also need to rub jello all
over my chest and listen to Yanni and
ignores like everything else about what
made a businessman successful it likes
that if that secret ingredient that you
put into the pot
I'm not gonna work 20-hour days and
never take a break for lunch and
sacrifice my relationship with my family
I'm just going to rub the jello on my
chest and then I'll be just like that
successful businessman copying the
knotch
kind of feels like that yeah you know
it's like correlation is is somehow
causation and in addition to that I need
to ignore everything else I'm just gonna
copy their dumbest design flaw of their
most expensive product and that's what's
gonna push me over the edge here's the
thing if you're working 20 hours a day
in public then you do the whole jello
rubbing thing in public then that would
be the case here for the knotch but
until then you know I don't think I
don't think it's a one-to-one comparison
that you can safely make I got well I
think that's that that is actually
perfectly exemplifying what it is that I
think he's trying to accomplish with
that terrible grotesque metaphor um a
couple other things to some interesting
news a soos rejoining the conversation
also looking at they might have
something that's a little bit more
iPhone like and who else Alcatel so we
might have some interesting chatter on
entry-level phones - I'm a big fan of
the Idol series of phones especially
bringing things like stereo speakers to
$200 phones could be some interesting
things to check out from MWC this year -
I think you know in light of LG's
absence I think we're still gonna have
some fun things to talk about
definitely especially without the towel
that they're trying to revamp their
lineup this year and focus on different
features as a corset that can be spread
among the bloat here so like anywhere
from 100 to 300 dollars that's what
they're trying to do and we've got the
new Nokia's what is it the Nokia one a
little little Android gear little thing
right there I kind of want to see where
those that's adorable
how how much fun was that hmd
announcement that they've now cracked I
think just under top 10 sales like 4.4
million yeah didn't do nokia branded
phones just like unseat most of the
market in their first year of operation
as a solo entity
brand recognition that label mean
something man like if they can iterate
I'm revisiting the Lumia 1020 for
another video and like it would be
pretty killer now to build enough
momentum for them to start pushing the
boundaries like Nokia of all did like
even even better if they can make their
promises to unlock the bootloader and
release the kernel sources for their
phones like they're required to by the
GPL that'd be cool that would be neat
yeah and I think that was the perfect
note to go out Ryan thank you so much
for joining us especially kind of
sitting through some of our technical
difficulties and you know not just
running screaming especially since Jules
is currently in your home right now is I
where where can people find you
especially your your personal social
media you're gonna be hitting your first
MWC with every police super excited and
it helps her that what what do you want
people to know where can people find
that coverage and and what are you
hoping to to share with folks I guess
they can find me at Android police air
please calm I tweet sometimes mostly
about non not really really mostly
obscene things cool at yet and just my
name at right Hager the soft soft linen
a lot of linen a lot of linen a lot of
leather it's pretty much mostly linen
and leather folks that's gonna be our
next our next podcast topic so you'll
definitely good times well and there you
have it folks
another episode of the pocket net weekly
has come and gone this show is over but
the conversation continues on Twitter
where you can find Jules is that point
Jules and I'm humbly at some gadget guy
Ryan is Ryan Hager we'll have a link
down below the
the video where you can click on that
and give him a follow I'm super jealous
his first trade shows gonna be it's
gonna be great it's gonna be great
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