Gadgetory

all right we are live all kinds of phone releases are coming soon the note 8 is on the horizon will be running down the top rumors and leaks before we head out to cover the New York event Huawei has sent out invites for the May 10 and Nokia has launched the Nokia 8 with Zeiss cameras in tow there's a lot to talk about this week so make sure you're charged and ready for episode 2 6 6 of the pocket now weekly of this weekly podcast recorded August 17th at 3:00 p.m. Eastern is a show where we dissect and discuss those gadgets that make our lives mobile smartphones tablets and wearables it's all the stuff you wished existed when you were a kid and science fiction films were around 200 years off in predicting mobile computing I'm Juan Carlos bag now senior editor pocketnow.com blasting the signal from sunny Southern California joined as always by plucky podcast producer mr. Jules Wong out on the east coast how's it going buddy boy I would be 200 years off if I were to estimate your age right now because I'm gonna say happy 235th birthday yeah but we had we had a podcast today so I mean look so um in the post you're gonna hear all the people clapping and cheering for you but right now it's only just me and possibly a few of our friends in the audience here so with all due to yes because I got the notification for both so happy birthday well thank you I appreciate that my birthday was yesterday from the from the day that we recorded this this crazy podcast and I feel older and more tired and decrepit and like advertisers care even less about me now so it's all moved out of that range where it's you know 18 but is it like 34 so 30 yeah I'm well outside that range now and I can just feel my purchasing power diminishing by the minute it's like I have this disposable income and literally no one wants to take it from me well I mean wages are still kind of stagnant and everyone's still looking that barista job they've held for a cry oh darn Millennials in there avocado toast not buying premium luxury goods and services well how about we promote a premium good good or service like it's a good it's a good I think it's it's a good which is it has a phenomenal service tied to it I'm glad you brought that up mr. Juan because this week we are sponsored by Eero now the single router Wi-Fi model just does not work anymore in our increasingly high bandwidth world what we need is a distributed system and that system is zero whatever your Wi-Fi needs zero has the power to seamlessly blanket your home in fast reliable Wi-Fi via if Ethernet Wireless or any combination of the two gyro is a mesh Wi-Fi system you set the main unit on a flat surface you plug the satellite beacons into wall outlets around your home to expand coverage to any room in your house this second-generation arrow now includes a third five gigahertz radio for tri-band connectivity making it twice as fast as its predecessor so you can do more in every room of your house simultaneously also Eros new thread radio can connect to low-power devices like locks doorbells and other home sensors the Eero beacon is half the size but is more powerful than the original making them more discreet around your home without compromising the signal whichever model you choose with euros incredible support you can call and get a hold of a Wi-Fi expert within 30 seconds but you might not ever need to this is one of the easiest networking setups I've ever used I plugged in the base station to my modem I fired up an app on my phone and the app connected the beacons quickly and they even helped me adjust to the position in each room for the best signal strength now my home isn't super large but it is two stories and I believe the top story is made out of a Faraday chamber to prevent any kind of wireless signal leaving my office so with lots of network noise coming in from neighbors we used to run Ethernet cables upstairs and downstairs to hook up slave routers to make sure we had good signal Eero has single-handedly replaced that mess with a single Wi-Fi network great security access and each beacon also doubles as a handy little nightlight I've had it running for a week and I'm totally spoiled mesh Wi-Fi is the future so they are giving they are delivering a special for viewers of the pocket net weekly if you would like free overnight shipping visit eurocom select overnight as the shipping option and enter pocket now at checkout that's eurocom offer code pocket now at checkout and we thank them for supporting the pocket now weekly all right for them and Harry for us for working with euro to get this deal on yes I used to run like five four different Wi-Fi SSIDs because I would have like this slave router like Netflix for our TV then upstairs you would have to remember to connect to a different Wi-Fi network for faster throughput it's all just one one ID now and that the handoff is phenomenal so like when I'm downstairs in the living room I know I'm connected to the living room beacon and then I just walk upstairs I go to bed and I could be streaming video and it hands it off perfectly you don't see any drop in connectivity it's it's surprisingly good what if we want to spend four different Estes IDs for your hero beacons I mean you you want to tour it one thing over the legal stuff in the other room it's it's probably I think we here at the pocket i weekly do not condone the use of arrow for any illicit ordinance in this podcast is this conversation right now so to do that you want to get in while we're live at 3 p.m. Eastern on this 17th day of August but going on to Twitter and entering the hashtag P and weekly you can track other people who are talking about the things that you might want to be talking about and also ask your own questions we'll try and see if we can answer them throughout this show or otherwise if you have a more question questionable question I guess that's what like something of a long term it's easy for you to say application I don't know really I doing this for a year now and I still can't get used to it podcasting no podcast a podcast no podcast you got it one more time you can do it dot-com and that's the email address that I give up I think folks live podcasting is hard man I know most weeks we make it look easy but every now and then it's still gonna it's still gonna trip us up to podcast at pocketnow.com you can send in those questions for those of you who are listening after we've recorded or if like I said you just want to write out something longer than 140 characters on Twitter that would honestly oh but it's good times we've already got a number of P n weekly hashtags coming in at Peter hatin saying people should sing you know and got a little happy birthday message there from Peter that's greatly appreciated and from Andrew Wallace we can jump jump into this one before we tackle the news hashtag P n weekly what are the snapdragons 6:30 and 660 equivalent to with older flagship processors alright so with the 660 they are using the new in-house cryo cores those to the cortex parts that they use for the 630 630 would be more akin I guess to the 625 but that itself as a as a mid-range element to it in the 626 or a successor so what we really want to be talking about I guess is probably the 650 series so sick I know this is a little confusing but if we're talking about 650 we'd be equivocating to the 630 660 I feel like is more of a more of an 8:00 8:30 no 8 it was the 8:20 that was the first one I think I think the easiest way because you're out you're absolutely on the right track there Jules I think the easiest way to kind of take a look at the difference between these various chipsets the six to five and the six thirty are their mid Ranger fare then we've got sort of an overlap something that exists between the 600 and the 800 series so for the 650 it was very reminiscent slightly better in terms of performance than the 808 was the the before it so if you had the Qualcomm 808 then you jump to the 650 I thought that was a pretty a pretty direct evolution the same thing I think is happening here the only 660 I've had the chance to play with is on the Oppo R 11 which is a Chinese unit and it's super lockdown so even install the gapps on it is kind of tricky for me because I've never used a phone quite so restricted before but that 660 seems to benchmark similarly slightly better than a lot of Qualcomm 820 s did look like versus you know and install that stupid little app that you have to find in the market and it's just right i I mean I know there are other differences in in terms of like core count and you know die size and all those things but it really does seem to be that the current year higher-end 600 is relatively close in performance maybe slightly better in terms of performance and power efficiency than the last year's high-end chipset so I would imagine that there would be a six seventy next year which is similar in performance to the Qualcomm 835 this power efficiency has to be the sharpest kind of gradients to all this because 652 653 they were not known as efficient chips where as opposed to 625 they were the last vestiges of Qualcomm's just dogs processors the 808 in the a-10 and the Sitton that did affect the 650 as well and so now we're just sort of on all fronts from entry level through high-end just Qualcomm is really really done an about-face on improving chipset efficiency but it took about a year and a half before we saw the fruits of that investment I don't think we've played with us sixth yet so our 6:30 so we want to be able to confirm that but yeah it looks like we're on track for I guess that kind of a two-year improvement we're talking about 808 so that's 2015 yeah it's five was a late launch - I mean the 625 I remember it came out first in the huawei Nova wasn't that the first phone to use a 625 and that was pretty late in the year last over the 2015 fall 2015 I'm not sure no wait there was Nova to blast last for in 2016 so it was 2015 so I mean we had a star for legacy I guess let me flipped leaf in 2015 speaking of flipping leaves why don't we flip leaves over officially that to you I wanna I want a response to that I want I want something that I was like what you gonna do what you gonna do I'm filled with anticipation for what what he's gonna say maybe who knows it could be a horrible idea but for the week of August 14th this is all the news that is fit to podcast the huawei mate 10 is officially queued up for an October 16 event in Munich Germany the phone is said to teacher six gigs of ram standard 10 nanometer Kirin processor for the first time and more expensive than usual price time ago we're talking about the equivalent of $600 something that really it hasn't been bumping up against the I guess that Barry has been bumped in Chinese a mobile carrier so we'll have to see about that Samsung has had another gear wearable leaked out following the swap SmartWatch like gear Sport is the gear fit to pro that's to lunch just before Aoife venture beats even blast reports that unlike the gear fit to this fitness band is actually fit for swimming has offline spotify playback and among a whole bunch of other features an enterprise Wi-Fi infrastructure distributor has created a Nicolas medallion called front it has cameras on it that can link directly to Facebook live YouTube and Twitter for up to two hours of live streaming or it can create a 16 hour time lapse of where you've been and you wear it it costs 400 dollars and is on sale from the company right now the Google is said to have paid huge sums to remain the default search engine for Apple's iOS products and Samsung phones analysts expect that Mountain View will pay 3 billion dollars to the former and 3.5 billion dollars to the latter this year motorola has gotten a patent in the US for a self-healing screen using a shape memory polymer and a little heating solution on a phone if the screen should crack in theory it should take just a few taps around that breakage and some magic to fix it up it's only a patent so we'll have to see when if at all it gets implemented into a product but it should be an improvement over the shadow shield solution they have right now finally that Nokia 8 that we've been drooling over or our group has been drew over Headroom for the past several months has been launched with flagship specs a dual camera mono color combo at back and both these the capability of taking pictures video and live streaming from cameras on both sides of the device of course you have to call it something both ease grew fees we fees yeah Europe should see it in September at around five hundred ninety nine euros alright that was a heart bail their groupies some things I don't know and then you sort of know I mean we shouldn't like you've tried branding the stuff before it's it's not gonna happen you're not going to do it well in and it's like and it's kind of up to them is if they can Kai if they can deliver it in a way that really sort of resonates or that really takes off i we are to have a pushing you know market points here so tomorrow to market points so so we already have a tweet in here from David bap bap teesta silva things real nokia flagships had that the 8 doesn't Qi charging an AMOLED display and a dedicated camera button terrible start for HMD hashtag pn weekly I don't know that it's terrible but there are a few things there that I think are a little concerning until we look at that this is a this is expected to launch for 600 euro some inner arrow so the standard version there's a 128 gig in standard 64 but there's a hard 28 gig so that's the average price they say I don't know I'm feeling like this is not a terrible position because this is just spitting distance from like a 1 plus 5 at this point isn't it like you have expandable storage you've got or does it have expandable storage did they mention that up to 256 yeah so I think that actually did give rated splash resistance IP 54 it's great but I mean it's practically it's only good for maybe rain or like so yeah but like we said before it's it's really like I'm just excited that they told us you know that you didn't just put on some moniker of like drizzled resistant that's the actual IP rating consumers have an expectation now for how durable their gadget should be and when I'm hearing that you know this this is gonna be put together it's got a reasonably decent battery size a 5.3 inch display I don't know I'm feeling like this this is a this isn't the most exciting obviously but this isn't a terrible way to kick off a new flagship series from this Nokia label yeah I'm gonna take you know not offense because I don't feel that strongly about it but you know a little aside from David's point here because we're talking about its standard you know a lot of standard hardware dafair from Foxconn which is a manufacturer partner of hmd quibble who are both behind the Nokia brand these days and given that they wanted to go for a medal something that has not been I mean we haven't really talked about Nokia as a meadow manufacturer except for maybe that c1 tablet that they had a couple years ago I mean it's been that standard design of plastic and the hard hardness you know Xochitl charging would be would be out of the ball ball field I guess for that and amplified AMOLED I mean we're in a tight situation for AMOLED in this market I don't think yeah that definitely feels like it that one of the major compromises for trying to arrive at this price point is I'm sure that the camera button I think yeah it's more it's more of a valid thing that was no one no kiyose things but who knows what might have happened because Microsoft did transfer a bunch of design patents to Nokia but yeah it's only 500 pieces who knows what the other pieces that we do not know of yeah when we knew they weren't getting the branding you know something we're getting clear black bag but maybe the technology just couldn't but yeah I wonder what though I'm like if it's gonna just be called like Nokia camera now for therefore there's a baby I think I mean they already have the app up you know because they can updated on the Google Play Store instead of having to do it through software updates so yeah it's just um I think it's gonna take time obviously but we're I'm excited just it's I mean for a lot of people I mean we're seeing phone companies make some really bold and daring design choices this feels a bit more conservative I don't think anyone would disagree there but I kind of feel like this is probably the right step to soft launch the Nokia name again and start building up an expectation for what they can achieve from from at rina-chan well the first Lumia series lacked a lot of features to it took until the x20 Lumias for it to get nice features hashtag pn weekly and from peter hatin i'm trying to work out who and why HMD included the both e feature to me seems like a real gimmick and may not help I mean a lot of manufacturers have played with both front and rear camera broadcasting though I mean that was actually a that was a really fun feature to play with I know when we were reviewing the Galaxy s6 active and like trying to livestream going down a waterslide with the front and rear camera on at the same time and then the splash water hit the screen and like it ended the broadcast before it really started this but but I played with that and that make 10 make 9 like it was like that big push or it's like oh you can Facebook life right from the camera app you know I think more manufacturers are starting to link up to those api's and I mean that's what that's what the front rail is for right like if you're a hipster or it will not really helps to be just a pathetic are you hating on millennials again do I need to go and buy more avocado toast come on you want it's good it's fine but like but but I don't think a company's wrong in this day and age to really be making selfie features a major part of the discussion I I think that's actually a pretty smart consumer play and when you see like just I and what I'm hoping is that we see some of the same microphone acumen that we had on phones like the 1520 because that surround sound recording I don't think anyone stopped how good that was implemented on the 15 20 in the 930 so if we get an Android device with decent front and rear broadcast capabilities and the ability to to play with surround sound audio recording all at the same time like that could be really fun to play with it could be and I mean we're playing around with all these everyone's been you know HTC it's it's iPhone I guess that's really not been the one that's you know multimedia creations just tap and go and you're done for them so it's it's that familiarity meme that you've been hitting on in terms of the camera app layout and the feature set I mean it really took a little little we haven't grown warm to the whole zoom lens and right I don't I don't think we've it's why they'll say it's like 3d touch so um yeah it's just I'm not I'm not sure if we're going to evolve or advance in terms of being more involved with our multimedia creation yeah that's another thing to mention too is I'll be curious to see how they implement the their dual camera system I mean I thought it was a nice shot in the arm for Motorola to go with match sensors it's been a huge benefit I feel for Huawei phones and it looks like Nokia's doing something very similar slightly smaller image sensors but hopefully we'll get some really good software processing depth of field effects black-and-white photography photo effects things like that so again I'll be really curious to see how that's implemented I think there's gonna be a lot if any part of this phone is gonna have unrealistically high expectations it's gonna be on the camera performance with that Zeiss label indeed indeed let's this ice away from Zeiss and know here for a secondary but we can turn that into a verb I don't know I'm trying I'm trying so hard in my name to work good I think yeah it's it's it's like putting work one word in front of the other like a little change Oh trying to like blocks words words are hard this is ya know just me today so sorry I'm gonna try and make this less of a problem as we transition to Google and how word for it I guess we're all paying for the option to do this whole say it like hey it's a galaxy and I can use Google on it right away from the main screen also iPhone to where it's wait doesn't I'm not sure how the iPhone would really work because like it's a preferred search engine app like this is it getting top promotion at the app store or what cuz I know is it is it like a Safari thing too well yeah I mean I think that's what they're getting at is is didn't Apple threaten to switch everything over to Bing and then that kind of just vanished like people stopped talking about it and that's one of the things I think these companies have always had a little bit of leverage over Google and it becomes like a license not a licensing deal but something akin to a licensing deal where you fire up your phone and you have an expectation that when you hit a search bar you're just gonna be sent to Google they're synonymous with search and so it it would be kind of a nuclear option I think a few people could be upset by opening the search bar on an iPhone or a galaxy and being sent to a Bing search results page but they always have that as a threat against Google and how Google's ad metrics work that's something that I think Google takes very seriously is they should be synonymous with desktop search they should be synonymous with mobile search and so it's almost like it's not extortion but it is kind of hey Google it's a it's a really nice search engine you got there be a shame if someone on galaxy couldn't find it is what I'm saying so they'll make what the this is a terrible Italian stereotype and I apologize well resume listeners in the pocket net weekly Goodfellas or the other movie that I can't think of aside it's it's a bit spawners damn it anyway this brain is not working um let's talk about you know well I was about to transition to something when I didn't finish my point goddamn alright so I'm getting in the way myself let's pretend that didn't happen hello anyways how eighths I think is something that we're going to talk about in just a few minutes I do want to Pat out a little bit more on what we saw with the gear fit to pro though yeah definitely as a sort of way to have you know I mean we saw ip68 waterproof last year for the kitchen - I've atmosphere so you can actually swim I don't like swimming has taken a really long time and or is to be like prepped for or are supported as a means of you know adapting to Fitness technology yeah it was one of the first but they've kind of gone up scar to their lead Apple watch and net and now it's just you know between Apple and Samsung I guess really so I don't know what what do you think about two options this year because we have the gear sports which is supposed to be more of a SmartWatch thing right and a gear for two Pro the mold band well no I definitely think there's some merit excuse me I have this dry cough and I apologize you know I've got these little wispy coughs we're apologizing yeah it was like we apologize for our existence and it's just really sad no I think there's definitely some merit to offering different solutions like you know I really like my huawei Smart Watch but it wouldn't be the best fitness trainer if I were more fitness II inclined and I think Samsung actually has a good idea on their band so when we see this fit to band you know it really looks to me like sort of the next evolution what we always wanted from a Microsoft band you know really taking into account different types of exercise not just a lot of these things I think are focused more on step counts so walkers and runners get the lion's share of of attention for new features and support and all of these other types of weight of weight I was gonna say weight training all these other types of fitness activities like weight training cycling swimming seem to be afterthoughts for a lot of these products I thought the Microsoft band was the first good step in a major tech company trying to address some of that oversight with how it would interact with different workouts and if Samsung can kind of spiritually continue that discussion then I think that's a huge boon for the fitness industry I'm still kind of surprised we talked about this on the board at work podcast I'm kind of surprised that we haven't seen like a more fitness apparel getting into this space for customized solutions like sensors woven into compression gear you know like your compression shorts your compression top that have like heart rate sensors built into that and then can track muscle movement so that you know maybe you're really trying to do a lot of workouts with yoga or pilates to see you know like temperature or skin electrical conductivity you know things like that that can help augment the fitness education side as well you know this is this notion that we can achieve everything with a couple sensors on a wrist I think we need to start expanding out of that but at least for Samsung's lineup I think this is a step in the right direction I mean Under Armour and all the other clothing Outfitters still have to figure that out I mean still kind of a bulky solution that they have to deal with that if they're talking about clothing then we have to take care of so that doesn't you know stretch and you know water improperly there's a lot going on I'm not saying that it's easy it's just we've seen what who was it was Google had that that tech demo with Levi's wasn't it Levi's yeah the cargo jacket and it was like oh you just have to rub the wrist while you're braking or something to order an uber later I like those but I think there's room to create more of a personal area network in general like I'd much rather have tiny little sensors that clip to my shoes than trying to count my steps from my wrist where as soon as I'm pushing a shopping cart or my daughter stroller like I just didn't have any steps that day even though I walked across Disneyland five times you know so I mean like I just think there's room I think there's room to expand beyond just the wrist and this isn't really anything that I think is critical of Samsung more just the fitness industry in general but from what I see from Samsung I'm really excited that they are making a bigger point out of talking about other methods of exercise I don't think any company I've seen making a similar claim was misfit so I think it was the misfit ray you could buy a plug-in for the misfit app which was supposed to reconfigure your ray so that it did a better job of tracking swimming strokes but that's still just like like the most basic kind of step tracker it wasn't like you have so had heart rate info or any type of customized workout strategy directly from your wrist so again I think Samsung's on the right track here yeah and just one more topic which I found pretty interesting in the wake of all our moto z2 force coverage and that is the whole patent with the shape memory polymer is what they continue to use so what I mean they filed this years and years ago like it looked like I think one of our derivative vias said like it looked like an Atrix device that they used in the drawings but right so it's like okay how long has this in the making and when can you see it because this whole ideal of okay we're gonna use a plastic a very easily scratch Abul plastic for shadow proof proofing it's tit really hasn't worked out this year to the critics and you know it really has made kind of a controversial phone I think it's a possible scale bar for for some consumers so no I agree what's interesting is you know this this is a really science fictiony idea I love the I me even the the patent diagramming this looks super I mean it looks futuristic and cool and like yeah I absolutely want that what I think is curious how do we control for phones that now would have to have self heating elements to bond and fuse pieces of broken screen back together and what will that do to the cost per unit of a device as opposed to we were to take the Moto Z to force as it currently exists and we had a really good first party solution from Motorola for a glass layer that we could stick on top of that screen or I mean just imagine like what they could do for marketing like they've got their basic protector which is kind of like a gorilla glass or a heart into class and then we've got our premium protector which is like you know synthetic sapphire and just imagine you could charge out the wazoo the margin on that would be insane just because you could call it sapphire we wouldn't have to worry about including other components in the phone that are rarely used if ever used only used when you damage the phone I think that's that's a lot of cost to add to a device for something that's not going to be you hopefully not gonna be used very often as opposed to yeah I had to spend another forty-five dollars on a sapphire screen protector because I smashed my z2 force but the actual screens fine I just need to replace the front cover you know for something that that is that works better than like a third-party add-on maybe it's even accounted for in the frame that runs are along the border of the phone you could do something really interesting there where there's a little bit of an edge or a lip so that it fits perfectly and it's designed to be as easy to install and is perfect to install as possible that I think would probably be an easier and a more profitable solution for this then then and re-engineering our phone screen displays to have overly complicated heating elements to fuse broken screens back together I'm just not super positive on this idea I mean maybe if they you know took that sapphire material and re-engineered the whole top layer that chatter shield thing maybe if we if they did that is like an optional upgrade replacements they and would they'll be selling them instead of not selling them because so because low sales have effectively you know just like they said to us exclusively a pocket now intent hello hi they're not selling them anymore they're are selling their replacements because people have bought them so you know if there's no profit there they might as well go for the over-engineering I agree it's kind of a you know too much but in that ass as long as I think it's more user friendly that goes right there and they know what to deal with it it's I think it's just easier and you know more efficient no but something really there's something really techie cool about saying like hey if you smash your screen you can fix it you know without having to take it in because you have to like ice you still have to deal with two-day shipping or going to Best Buy or whatever to actually replace the thing as opposed to doing it right there and then but you know I think that's but that's just me no no I mean I don't think it's just you I think there are a lot of people that would think that is a cool feature but again it's a cool feature in a vacuum when we look at the realities and the practicalities I mean look at you know people complaining about the price of the Moto z2 but part of the price has to include the engineering and the the implementation of the Moto mod system which can't be licensed out to other manufacturers no one else is jumping onboard that idea of modularity so Motorola and Lenovo have to eat and build in the cost of that Pogo pin data connectivity the software developing for every moto mod so that it's a seamless experience he slap it on the back and the phone knows what to do with that hardware every piece of that has to be accounted for in the price of the phone because it's not like there's some other post phone purchasing subscription cost surface that you can use to get more money out of consumers in the future maybe maybe but I mean you know if if you're not gonna you know do something that has a guaranteed you know link to it then right I know it's why why you bother doing you in the first place it's yeah I think there are some things that just need to be offered down a branch I think even at the $800 ish price that we're talking about for the Moto ZT force it's still no I mean that's what's tricky is because at the same time I think a lot of enthusiasts are wanting to see new stuff right we want we want to be excited by technology want to see something a new feature that really like just blows our minds and I think if you were to show someone their screen healing for the first time we ever saw something like that it would it would it would be you know JA a gape just incredible to say you're a multiple mobile device the accounting work because you got the margins you set the margins up just I really I really need a Motorola numbers guy to come in here and tell me like well this is how much the phone cost those margins this is what we're gonna do to make it make it cooler and sexier because I just don't see where this is gonna be consumer feasible but if we saw like the tech demo on this I think we all be tripping over ourselves to talk about how cool it is yeah yeah do that by going on to uh well actually you can't do that because we don't offer anything or we don't offer that kind of what just happened but I'm I'm trying to say you can see full details on these stories and more just hit pocketnow.com and look for the podcast section to get to this episode's rundown and you can chat with us about what you're reading on with the hashtag pian weekly also be sure to check out Jaime Rivera and the PocketNow daily on our youtube channel now I'm trying to get our guest on because they're there actually somewhere on the line here but I'm trying to you know see if the they're able to I get in and apparently someone's asking a question or why their representatives was asking a question hello this is inside baseball my name is Jules Wong and he's one Kyle's back now we're just trying to see if we can get them in so in the meantime yeah I was the minor technical difficulty here and we're gonna try to get this sorted out because we're trying to have an expanded conversation someone sent us an email which we weren't really prepared to explore for our listeners take the wheel podcast about accessibility options and it's something that we've been wanting to pay more attention to something that we've been wanting to expand on as a topic of conversation there's a certain focus in talking about consumer electronics and I don't think anyone would be too surprised here that you sort of focus on sort of the the the most widely-known inaccessible parts of the phone you know things that are gonna affect the greatest number of people but there are whole communities of consumers and whole collections of customers who have different needs for interacting with mobile data and services and have different maybe potential barriers for interacting with those services and so we're hoping that we can start expanding on some of that conversation while we've been talking about some other sciency issues especially digital mental health smart phone and data Internet addiction and other ways that we can kind of help improve the landscape for future technology services we we don't want to see people left behind we want to make sure that people are along for the ride as many people are along for the ride as we can kind of fit in our 21st century data services boat so hopefully we'll be able to get this guest on and see we've been trying to coordinate this apparently he's on vacation vacation but I've been working through his representative and it's kind of like you know it's a it's a game of little telephone and little tech intelligence especially with hangouts because you know it's not to ative kind of tool I mean we use it every week for hey you know this on-air broadcast so and like we should put use it in big bunny ear quotes jumping through hoops to make it blow up in our face yeah I want to see if we can actually tease what I thought I mean all right so if you were to think about the no dates because we're going to talk about that I promise we are um in maybe like three words what would your three words be three words for the note eight man and put on the spot I would say boring no no no no I was gonna say bigger but fragile bigger but fragile we have more of a screen there yes it's the thing that has concerned me and if we're gonna tease anything we do have a new pocket now debate video coming out on Friday tomorrow tomorrow afternoon Friday afternoon where Jaime and I debate the merits of the note as a Productivity platform and I'm gonna I'm gonna hide who's in who's debating for and against that premise you'll just have to tune in to the video um but you know I pulled my trusty note for out of retirement and I don't know that I felt many phones that kind of have that same notion of business great durability you know classic Motorola's were kind of built on that then the note 4 was built on that and moving over to glass curved glass on both sides infinity displays you just don't have the same confidence in chucking it in a briefcase making shirts and your check your you know on plain luggage running around trying to answer business queries you know you're holding suitcases I there's a certain notion of business productivity that I think the note is walking away from or has been walking away from since the note 5 in favor of a more generalized consumer approach and is that really is necessary when we've got phones like the galaxy si plus you know we already have the big screen the curved edges the pretty phone maybe it's time for the note to revisit some of the more durable business II kinds of designs that we've had for notes in the past you know I mean mmm Samsung has made a point its executive one of them has made a point that you know this would be media consumption device as opposed to anything are they productive and you know you can draw the S Pen where you're supposed to do that are you supposed to you know tap on you know a spreadsheet or draw a little something or other little doodle I mean it's really up to the customer base that actually adopts it and they're funny that's you know more gamers are using it and they're you know enabling these game recording features and other features that are not you know necessarily suited towards enterprising towards I guess productivity in general and one of the things that's been really difficult to kind of keep talking about for consumer electronics in general I mean look at all of the features that come out and people cover them sort of as a tangent or in in a really shallow way you know like oh this phone can do this thing and they mention it but they don't really explore the use of it they don't really explore what it really means to engage with that feature to engage with that service I'm trying to think of some examples right now but I mean it's kind of like if you had a dual camera phone and you just took a couple normal photos and you didn't really talk about you know photo editing or productivity or anything like that you're missing what that camera can bring to the market and I feel spen often is the same it's like a it's like Galaxy s8 but it has a stylus like well that's that's not really the full discussion on a product like that we'll get into that discussion soon enough because I see we have a new guest joining joining the Hangout a few teething pains and getting us all set up here I'm going to expand my window so I can better see everyone in the Hangout and mr. Holtzman from AARP I believe you should yeah all right and you're all set up and ready to jump in so you are the the senior vice president of marketing at AARP I have that title correct no senior vice president of market innovation market innovation excellent okay thank you for correcting me there that's actually a pretty important distinction for what we're gonna be talking about just real quick especially considering that our audience is probably a little younger my age and a little bit younger what what how would you describe the mission of an organization like AARP well the overall mission of AARP is to enhance the quality of life for all as we age so it's an ageless mission you just got to be 50 to get into the club though but to enhance the quality of life involves many different things and where I'm focused and my team is focused and therefore AARP is focused is to identify and to spark innovative products and services and to encourage more relevant and better more consumer friendly products and services that will enhance the quality of life by addressing unmet and under met needs particularly in the areas of health security financial security and personal fulfillment so I mean obviously a major part of our conversation here at PocketNow is focused on mobility mobility technology smartphones and getting people engaged with those types of services at work and we're focused on mobility in the other sense ensuring that people can get around but that has become a major part of that that interaction hasn't it is the these now it's hard to envision life now without some access to some of these tech services we're seeing more retailers and adopting like tap and pay you know so that you're using your phone more proactively as opposed to only reacting to changes like from emails or text messages or something like that what are some of the some of the more recent adaptations that AARP is an organization has met I mean I just recently went on the website to see I was very surprised to see this incredible portfolio of discussion topics ranging far and wide from entertainment to you know food to lifestyle but you know I didn't see that one bullet point that one category just for technology you know or science or something like that how have you seen that adaptation unfold especially during this electronics lucien still there III think I froze on you for just a second there I are you still able to hear me yep Oh Sam now okay I think you're back I am I in too so yeah that that sort of evolution of ARP relating to some of these more technologically focused consumer areas so you know first of all you know there there are just the myths that you know older people you know are not online are not engaged with technology you don't have an interest in technology and and those are absolute myths you know the first thing is is that you know do you know who Vint Cerf is I do not Vint Cerf is the father of the Internet okay Devin he's in his 70s and he works at Google he's a VP at Google and an evangelist for the Internet and Vint you know says when people say well aren't older people afraid of Technology his response is afraid of technology what are you talking about we invented technology you know when you look at the cell phone and mobile you know who is it that invented that that's Marty Cooper who did it in the late 60s early 70s at Motorola is still alive and who played a role actually in the design and Korea but phone which was the first you know mobile phone cellular phone targeted at making it easier for older people had larger buttons and things like that and and it's actually produced by a company called great call which just had an exit of over 400 million dollars so this is a huge market people over 50 are responsible for you know over 53% of total consumer spending in the United States they are one of the largest purchasers of Technology people over 45 carved responsible for 71% of all patents applied for in the areas of information technology material sciences and life sciences so even the economic value and contribution the economic contribution of those patents have yet to be fully realized and the longevity economy if you were to envision a standalone economy that was solely driven by the consumer spending of people over 50 would be seven point six trillion dollars making it the third largest economy in the world and that's just in the u.s. after China and the u.s. at you know the US and China and over three trillion dollars larger than Japan so so you know and and well up close to 90 percent of people over 50 are online you know people in their 50s and 60s I'm talking to you on one of my two iPhones on 63 I'll be 64 next month and many of us particularly boomers grew up with technology in the office I mean I've been on computers since 1984 when the first compacts you know made their way into my office so he's so yeah I mean I had one of the first portable you know computers there was a Compaq it looked like a sewing machine and some people called it a you know I used to call it a luggable because wait about five pounds but tiny little screen and had floppy disks and things like that so you know the first thing is that there is this myth that older people aren't engaged with technology and they are they've been engaged with every new type of technology that has entered the the market you know since they were kids and first it was you know was the TV for in the post-world War two ERA and then every other adoption from you know VCRs to DVDs to CDs too you know Smart TVs to computers to laptops to mobile to smartphones you know people over 50 you know have have bought a good chunk of those so let's look first let's first acknowledge that I believe I believe we can take that as read now I think because I think what's sort of germane to that conversation is one of the points that you brought up like talking about some of the concerns of more senior members we got the maybe I think part of the market got locked on that notion that you know senior citizens need cell phones with larger buttons and then we kind of stopped with the general mind share of what it takes to make sure that all communities I mean not necessarily just senior citizens but other people facing unique challenges maybe a vision based or maybe their hearing based are you know sort of are stopped from entering certain certain markets but there's sort of a joke perception that well what you need is a jitterbug and big buttons and that's that's how you sell a phone to seniors what are some of the other needs that you know especially I mean again from the focus of AARP membership but that you're hearing you know that might be a barrier to entry something that's not being fulfilled currently when we talk about newer emerging services so the first the first thing is the issue of design and you touched on it by pointing to bigger buttons and I think that you know for somebody my mother's age who's 87 larger buttons are actually an important thing and in fact a smart phone with a with a touchscreen actually is a difficult interface for older hands and they're physical changes to the fingers that that make it so so bigger buttons that that are push that that is clearly to a group of people and to your point not just people who are older but but people who may have vision issues or other issues I think that overall though the the issue is you know there used to be this I guess there still is this concept of universal design and the problem with it is that it got essentially identified with grab bars in a shower now and and so it kind of got looked down upon my preference is is to think about design for all and just like marketing 101 if you have a marketing solution for your most difficult customer that just means that you're gonna have that much easier time to sell to the rest of your customers okay if you if you build into the design on the front end a user interface a and tools that are intuitive and what Steve Jobs would have called simply he wouldn't have put a label on it except to just say good that's good design and for him there was good design and there was bad design and most of it was bad design so just think about what makes you know a good you know a good website it's the number of clicks to get right what you want to get to write on a cell phone or an aura or on a smart phone it's it's how many things do you have to push to get to the activity that you want to actually engage in and that's no different regardless of age so when you design something that is simply easier to use what that enable in enables is the company that produces that it allows them to penetrate the entire age continuum rather than be stuck stuck in a niche of just the accessibility niche or the older market niche and that to me is really the promise of several underlying technologies that are now coming to the fore particularly with voice artificial intelligence machine learning IOT and we have yet to see all of those things one fulfill their thoth there their complete potential but more interestingly we have yet to see how they will come together in various combinations to enable a future of future activity so do you feel like one of the barriers might be some of that social stigma that if someone is making design so so accessible and so at the forefront as to engage in a conversation where this is gonna be easier for senior citizens to use this is gonna be easier for sight and hearing affected people to use that they could be then linked with this is the phone for old people or this is the phone for the blind or the phone for the Deaf as opposed to really kind of sharing in that mass-market idea of this is good design I think you you mentioning Apple specifically we could make an argument I think some of our viewers would disagree with me well we could make an argument that maybe a lot of the innovation happening in the Android space is change for the sake of excitement to talk about change where it doesn't necessarily always represent improving interactions or improving access to data or services yeah well I think I think that's true you know I've been a Mac house since 1984 so you know when in my house let's see how did you how did you function you had Compaq at work and Apple at home of WordPerfect and you know and and other and other programs yeah there was a lot of printing out stuff you know I think that the I'm I'm a Trekkie right and I and I've always you know looked at Star Trek and Roddenberry's vision of what technology can achieve and how and more importantly the interface that the interfaces that he created between people and technology as frictionless right so going back to 1965 the first Bluetooth communicator although it wasn't called that was in lieutenant uhura Zaire ear right and and it was you know path-breaking and and and it was pat breaking in not just because the technology but also because this was an african-american actress who was a key member of the cast in 1965 exactly yeah at the same year as the Voting Rights Act so you know breakthrough in that in that regard the first tablet you know Picard you know sitting in his ready room reading Shakespeare you know right you know the first 3d printing card again going to get his Earl Grey tea the first virtual reality the the holodeck you know talk about you know big data and machine learning its name was data you know and it was this Android that could do all these these things at the service of people and but I think the the and you know we're not we're not going to get into transporters but you know I think the most significant view of the future that that Star Trek you know presented and is now starting to be realized is voice and so the very notion that you can simply speak into the air and stuff happens in response that to me is where the user in interface starts to become frictionless and that is the key not just to accessibility for people who need extra help in accessing these technologies that is accessibility for everybody and that really is you know the potential of design for also we see Alexa we see you know rural home we see apples you know entry into its series going to get better and better so that to me is really where we're the so because this has been one of my sort of no evidence to support it hypotheses is one of the reasons why it's so difficult to discuss you know accessibility settings on a phone for example is it's really difficult to envision how someone can interact with a piece of technology if they need to rely on those settings without someone else's help like you can just crank open the surface of your iPhone to find the accessibility settings exactly and so envisioning this and I'm glad you brought up star tracker we were cuz I was raised on the original series before next-gen came out and we're going back through and rewatching it and I actually had to point out to my wife I think it's in the third or fourth episode of the original series where Kirk leaves the bridge and he takes the the helmsman with him and he tells you her take the helm and you're like you've got an african-american woman piloting the enterprise and no one blinks like no one comments on it just like that's how it works in the future and that that was a really big deal especially for its time this one little throwaway interaction with a bridge crew member I unfortunately I would have to agree is this something that has become a part of the conversation with AARP members that these needs aren't being met without assistance from someone else or without additional hand-holding to kind of get us into how they can interact with things like smartphones or just the fact that these things are changing on such a radical basis I know that's one of the reasons why I have been a little bit more active in recommending Apple as a potential solution for some of my family members because I have a reasonable expectation that when they upgrade their phone they won't have to learn all the basics how to use it whereas I don't always have the same the same confidence in something like a galaxy phone maintaining a consistency of UI right well I'm with you just as a user you know with regard to Apple products and there's no question it was the iPad that came out and did in fact make touchscreens possible for many older hands that previously could not effectively use what was even a smaller iPhone so what I was gonna say was that yet you know these issues of poor design insufficient design insufficient products that are just really easy to use intuitive going back to plug and play and make it really literally plug and play I mean I think that's a challenge for for people that need an extra you know some additional assistance but I think that's a challenge for the entire market most of the stuff that is designed sucks you know and and so you know for example if you have a device that is black and you know you're you're looking for the on/off button or this or that and you looked and you see that the button is black and it's tiny and there's a two-point font with a black raised writing with a black background you know that's not easy for my kids to see and right now with their 20s than it is for me so you know right and bless you for thinking that any modern phone actually even can dedicate the space for 0.25 okay so 0.1 whatever yes point point 0.5 you know the point is is that it's it's insufficient and you know so ARP has been sounding this alarm we've been at at CES every year for the last eight years nine years you know kind of with a campaign around design for all my my AARP runs a demo day every year called innovation at 50-plus live pitch we for six years primarily focused on digital health and and digital solutions for caregiving we we had it last year at the Computer History Museum and in in Mountain View we had it at the startup accelerator plug-and-play and Sunnyvale the year before that we've had over a thousand companies applied to be one of ten on stage we have you know we only put 10 on stage at 1,000 we've plucked 770 companies and of those 70s 75 lists about 31 32 have raised over a hundred eighty million dollars in venture investment another five companies have exited through acquisition we've had 61 venture capital firms invest in those companies we've had top-shelf VCS who volunteer their time to be judges whether it was Koestler or kleiner perkins or you name them and and so you know the marketplace has to start to see that this is a market that is simply too big to ignore and so if the solutions in the market right now are insufficient well that's the role of innovation and it's the role of innovation not in just in this area but but in all areas you know a JW will do you remember Woolworths yeah okay so what was started by a guy named JW Woolworths and what JW one of my favorite quotes of Woolworths was I am a terrible salesman so I have to make it easy for people to buy right well and this is this is one of the things like I would have a concern with so you're working you're reaching out to these companies you're having these kinds of discussions you're putting them on stages you're at tech conferences and the I would say maybe one of the current criticisms of the Silicon Valley investor mentality right now is we've got a lot of great salesmen right so in in in direct response to the Woolworths strategy there he has to make get easy for people to buy are we finding what kind of response are we finding though you've you've been at CES for eight or nine years and this is a conversation that I still feel like many in our audience haven't been easy haven't easily discovered or haven't easily contributed to wouldn't the fear be this is really easy to pay lip service to but then what do we see like you know the put up or shut up what what kind of responses do we actually see making it to market to improve the situation not just for seniors but for consumers in general yeah well I I think there I think your your core point is is absolutely right there is a lot of lip service and and I think that you know it in many ways you'll have organizationally you'll you'll have you know in companies you'll have like an accessibility group but it's really it's really is an afterthought it's like corporate responsibility so you know corporate social responsibility it's like that it's like that thing over there but those are things that need to be embedded and threaded through the life of a company and it's just from a business standpoint incredibly short-sighted to make it that separate type of thing it's really an example of not understanding the potential of a growth of one of the only humongous growth markets that exists right you know and so I come out a strategy consulting you know I used to be a futurist with the Nesbit group and when I look at these things I'm asking myself what planet are these people on you know you know you know in in Watergate you know the the the big takeaway from Watergate aside from you know Nixon standing with his hands up you know on on the getting into the helicopter when he resigned the other takeaway was follow the money where's the money this is the population that spends the money and so you know we have continued to have a focus on younger people marking dollars still are skewed to younger people and there are you know myths about you know well if you get them in young you know they'll be brand loyal for life they absolutely will not that might have been I don't even know that was true you know years ago 50 years ago but it definitely is not true today particularly when you're in technology markets where new stuff comes along repeatedly so you might have been a blackberry lover and then the iPhone you know bypassed it you know or you were a Nokia you know lover or you know whatever or or a moto you know cell you know lover you know the things are coming hot and heavy and it's only going to be the companies that are able to constantly come up with a value proposition that answers the third question of strategy which is why should you buy from me and not the other guy now that's that that's kind of the last point that I'd like to kind of end on though is we see sort of this acceleration of the technology market where III think you know you were bringing up the classic blackberry days it was sort of expected that there might be two years between a major shift in a BlackBerry product right these things would exist for a little while and prior to that it was a big deal when like a new desktop was released a new IBM compatible PC that was like a five-year ten-year strategy no one ever got fired for buying IBM now and now and now you just have software upgrades well and do you feel like that's sort of contributing to maybe sort of a tech fatigue I think we're starting to see the beginnings of that across the consumer consumer spectrum in general but this is also one of those things you know like there's the stereotype of grandma having difficulty using her iPad every time there's a major iOS update or an app changes on her folders is repositioned is that something that's becoming a part of the conversation for AARP membership yeah I would I would say it's not a dominant conversation and I think in terms of you know technology fatigue when you see new products come along like the Amazon echo you know if it serves the need people get it you know and so you you know you have an accelerator in Seattle right now that's funded by Amazon it's run by a guy I know from tech stars you know that and it's all about building on the echo platform well we've seen products around caregiving that are being built on the echo platform those things are then gonna find their way into some kind of IOT connection I want to see the day when my mother can walk into her house and just say Harry because she's renamed Alexa hey Perry I love it Harry I want to talk to Rachel who's that rachel is my niece her grandchild who's in the Peace Corps in Nepal and only has access to broadband twice a month knows what those days are can then schedule that FaceTime conversation between Rachel and my mother and then put up on the screen reminders to my mother Harriet just reminding you fling next week Rachel's gonna be calling in four days Rachel's going to be calling today because my mother will have lost whatever she wrote down that appointment on remand and then all of a sudden my mom's there in the lid in the living room watching the television and there's Rachel right for that because this has also been one of the concerns that we've talked about with voice assistants in general the amount of personal information do you think we will be able to build an ecosystem that can address some of those concerns at the same time protecting privacy protecting user data you know making sure that people understand you know sort of what's the safe behavior and what's not I know that's got to be a part of the AARP mission is that kind of outreach and kind of Education I think the the biggest things for for AARP are certainly privacy but it's it's you know privacy increasingly is in the eye of the beholder and it is increasingly you know opting out or opting in as opposed to opting out you know it's it you know you're gonna see those that are demand opt-in and they're gonna be those you know that I could just be comfortable opting out privacy has to be built-in as we've seen you know with regard all there's always somebody smarter reminds away I think this is part of the reality that we that we're dealing with and I think on the back end things have to be done certainly to prevent the break-in but then it's you know once there is a break-in it's on the back end of protecting the people whose data has has been you know compromised uh you know so that's one thing but the the the other part of this is it is also you know the fraud and targeting of older people once you have that data or you know and that doesn't require you know great technology you know almost all of the scams these days are telephone calls and and and and you know somebody will call and they'll say they're from Publishers Clearing House and you've won but you have to send them a check for a hundred dollars to get your check for five million and you know and and I've seen those kinds of things left and right and if this is a major issue that our members feel very strongly about and it's an area that AARP has rightfully you know focused on you know working with attorneys general you know across the country but also providing tools and education to people you know about what information they should volunteer you know over the phone or even you know over over over the internet so I'm but that's really interesting to hear these so the the stigma that you know grandma's falling for the Nigerian prince email scam or that their computers are getting hacked because they're clicking on ad banners really is kind of overblown that the traditional more human scamming sort of a data mining is is still the prevalent cause of that kind of abuse yeah I don't have data on you know percentages but but but but it's still you know the the you know the the the old true and steady you know still unfortunately seems to work all too often but that that's also good news I think for the future of technological services that it would appear the protections are at least on the right track I mean they're obviously never gonna be that's right that's right and so for example you know there are companies that startups that have been on our stage like ever safe and true link golden and others who are helping to fight most importantly by allowing families to to track you know financial activity and and to jump on it you know right away I also think the banks are frankly you know just getting better I mean I know for myself you know I recently bought a new mattress you know right and you know was a purchase very different than usual right yeah I often you buy a mattress and and and so I got a phone call you know from you know the fraud alert guys you know at chase you know to say is this you and you know blah blah blah and you know I think increasingly that'll be happening you know as well and the technology and you know and even on the fraud alert stuff that's where artificial intelligence and machine learning and clean and those underlying technologies are just going to get better and better so the really just reinforces the idea I mean we got hung up on things like Android updates or iOS updates that really it does seem to be that from your perspective making improvements more seamless in the background improving that data layer of AI being able to look through information is really going to be the next major hurdle for improvement services for everybody and that comes with bringing more people into the tech fold from various communities be they senior citizen or from other facing other disabilities or challenges right and and and on the on the services side the ability of these technologies to help make recommendations that are much more personalized you know you know so for example you know in medicine there's a lot of discussion now about personalized medicine really what it is is genomic medicine and because genomes are singular and unique then people kind of you know generalize it to say that that it's personalized medicine it's not it's it's it's it's molecular medicine its genomic medicine what is missing is the person that and the person it's really about how they live their lives and everybody lives their lives differently things are different or have different degrees of importance sure we all have you know certain common vein themes that we all want you know you know a good quality of life and happiness and and and social circles except for you know the individuals that just want to be by themselves of all ages but you know but had your circumstances your float your life flow as my my friend and colleague dr. Charlie a says you know it it's when the products and technologies adapt to the person rather than the person having to adapt to the technology that's when it's right that's when we have the the right fit we had we had a question here and actually I think that kind of helps address it from a Twitter follower Peter Hayden talking about some of Google's recent pushes into mainstream adoption of things like augmented reality their visual positioning service to help people navigate areas that they might not be familiar with but that doesn't really seem to be you know a service that should be focused on a particular demographic that sounds like it should be something accessible to all kind of the last point you were making there that it really if we were to take the notion of you know who we're spending ad dollars on you know we're targeting youth markets the exciting conversations around what next social media sharing photo app is coming out this week and is going to be gone next week that that seems to be one of the last big hurdles to get over for improving the situation for everybody yeah no excellent well on that on that note of being in an agreement I think we should go and wrap this up I really do appreciate you taking the time to chat with some of this stuff where can people find because again you know I would imagine that most of our audience is probably too young to join the club but it seems like there are still conversations worth having and especially for relating to say older family members because we're often the people that are tapped to make those purchasing decisions for our friends and family and where can they find more information on some of these topics which might be relevant for some of their older family members yeah well two things one I you know what's really important is that the older person be at the center of innovation and that the older person be involved in those purchasing decisions you know purse devices personal emergency response systems the kind of I fall and I can't get up buttons right you know half of those are in a drawer and they're they're in a drawer because they were bought by an adult child without talking to the older person and you know even the oldest and frailest do not want to wear something around their neck that communicates like a neon sign I'm old and frail right you know older people do not want to buy things the old the older guy does not want to buy the car for the the guy right cuz in your head you're not the older guy in fact we did research years ago to ask people what is old and you know what what old is old is about 17 years older than you are regardless of that actually makes a lot of sense though I don't I don't feel like I'm an adult yet I feel like I will be in about a decade well basically it's it's the next generation my generation is old it's not me and so you could have you know a 75 year old well my in-laws are 96 of them you know that's 75 year old is still you know young whippersnapper compared to my in-laws and a generation away in fact so you know so we gotta gonna you know ensure that you know innovation on the design side is involved so I was telling you about our demo day you know right all demo days have the same thing they have you know venture capitalist judges the entrepreneurs do their pitch somebody's chosen as a winner but we do something differently because we bring in the consumer so we have a judges winner and a consumer choice winner because we bring in AARP members and we give them wireless voting devices and an open mic to provide real-time market feedback to these entrepreneurs and that is what is missing so in the startup world you can have all the discussion you want about Lean Startup methodology which is premised on repeated it or iterative interactions with the consumer most startups and entrepreneurs don't have the time the money or the way to access you know the consumer and so you know would it be better absolutely but most it doesn't happen and so we saw that as an opportunity to put the consumer at the center of innovation if you're designing for this category of people that category of people better have a say in to what's being designed for people like them so in terms of where people can go for more information they can find it on the AARP o-r-g website another website to look at which was started by AARP and United Healthcare with a focus on digital health is called the longevity Network dot or RG and a lot of our studies they're all you can download them for free we're trying to build more of a community and make it much more of a destination for entrepreneurs and investors and academia and you know tech media and anyway those are resources which you like you mentioned like we have access to those resources even if we're not card-carrying members of AARP but that there are discussions there on those sites that can help inform us you know what might be a way to approach an elder an elderly family member or someone with unique concerns facing something like digital mental health or a home care or communications equipment in general that's what you were saying cuz III think you know you you really nailed it with I fallen and I can't get up there are so many of these well-meaning well-intentioned products like oh I need to get that from my grandmother like she's not going to ever use that but she's totally comfortable using her iPad to FaceTime with her great-granddaughter like that's right not a problem right or she learned to text but because of her granddaughter exactly exactly and so the those those types of conversations I think are important to kind of keep in mind and that we have access to that information we don't have to have an AARP login to get to some of that data no and I think and I think there's a larger issue here which is how how can you be involved in the world at this time and be unaware not just of the greatest demographic wave in the history of humanity and we're talking billions of years of history right not only be unaware of it but not be look the implications of that because I would argue that there isn't a single industry even in b2b spaces that doesn't have to be aware of this trend it has implications across the board and so it may not be obvious what those implications are but that is certainly the conversation that has to happen excellent well thank you so much for taking the time and we'll put those links down in the show notes for this video too so people can click on those for more information and I really appreciate you having this chat with us it's something that again I don't think a lot of us are focused on but there's a lot of there are a lot of misconceptions regarding how these contents very much one thanks very much thank yours all right wrap this show up I think I think this is a good idea to wrap it up with yeah I mean if you if you were sort of again it's a IIIi feel bad making an an iPhone user jump through the Google Hangouts hoops to get rides like this but I'm glad he was able to find his way oh sure that's true hangouts as iPhone lovely stuff but let's put a pin in it folks there you have it another episode of the pocket now weekly has come and gone this show is over but the conversation continues on Twitter where you can find Jules is at point Jules I'm humbly at some gadget guy and for more information on accessibility in senior care especially as it pertains to the gadget and mobility lifestyle we've got we'll have links below and in the blog post for this episode where you can find more information from AARP now pocket now is around the web on Twitter Instagram Facebook Google+ YouTube and our home site pocket now calm and in espanol at es pocketnow.com shows like this cannot exist without your support sharing the weekly with your friends who love mobile technology and dropping reviews anywhere you can review a podcast helps us spread the word once again we want to thank this week's sponsor ero for totally revolutionising my home network make it a lot easier to use I definitely check out that promo code for free shipping because they're helping us support the pocket net weekly but ultimately there would not be a show if it weren't for our listeners and subscribers who have kept us on the air since 2012 the pocket now weekly we'll be back next week with all kinds of delicious technology goodness so make sure