Gadgetory

from pocketnow.com this is PocketNow weekly hello and welcome to episode double 09 of the pocket down weekly the once-a-week podcast from pocketnow.com where we discussed news and opinion from the world of mobile technology smartphones tablets phablets of every color shape and size I'm your host Michael Fisher senior editor at pocket now and I'm joined by our editor-in-chief Brandon minimun good morning to you good morning and video extraordinaire and iOS expert the man from Honduras Jaime Rivera good morning to you good morning how's everything oh you know terrific listeners thanks for tuning in again our last podcast was a special edition podcast from Berlin as you may recall and that is where our managing editor aunt Tandy Naja is this week he's back in Berlin correcting for an error that was not his fault there's an apple mishap actually which I'm sure he will be more than happy to tell us about when he returns but he's not here this week and but so what we will miss him but but this week's episode is is no less special because there has been a ton of news in fact that is a huge understatement there has been so much news between now and when we did our last podcast that i'm frankly overwhelmed i was putting the outline for this together and it's just it's outrageous how much happened this week this is easily the biggest week that I've encountered since coming aboard is it is it would you would prefer to say this is the biggest week this year Brandon Hyman yeah I'd say so I mean this I mean this week we have we get really busy when announcements happen because then we follow up with you know editorial and video and we sort of we sort of do what we do best during these periods of time and it's been it was kind of boring actually in the summer for a while the last the last three weeks we had you know we had nokia we had motorola microsoft wait that's part of the nokia event we had the iphone 5 announcement next week HTC there's also an LG announcement next week which actually right which actually I don't know if that many people know about but you know this we have to keep in mind that this is all for for the holiday season so that when you go and buy your loved ones some technology you've got the latest ingredients to choose from and you'll know you'll pay for it um yeah but but but it's it's fun for us and actually yesterday the iphone 5 announcement it was our biggest traffic day in our 12-year history so i'm very grateful to everyone that read our stuff that commented we had so much good discussion on the site and you know i'm really proud of the pocket no team in particular for for doing such a good job with their writing in their videos it was a fun day thank you sir right back at you it was it was nice to you know but when i was putting the podcast together actually brandon had sent out this email to everybody indicating that it was such a an awesome day for us yesterday and that's great because you know we spend when we're following these announcements you know we're spending all this time kind of just getting all the information together and then the hours afterwards are spent cobbling together opinion pieces and stuff and we're going to talk a little bit about that today so why don't we when we do that do we have there's so much has happened and part of the reason that I'm really glad to have high me on the show today is because he is our kind of our resident iOS what would you call yourself I'm a maven superfan does the I'm just the iPhone guy the iPhone guy right so if you know listeners long time readers have no this Joe Levi is kind of our Android focus guy Adam lien is our windows phone 8 expert and then hi Mei is our iOS guy and then you know the rest of us all of course love love of our own particular platforms I would have been the webos guy if I'd come aboard a year earlier um and you know in yada yada so let's let's just jump right in here I want to talk about those apples finally announced the iphone 5 we have a ton of editorial content but just I meet can you just take us down like the bullet points of yesterday like what what this brings to the table that's an improvement over the 4s just for a review ballpark figure is we've got a longer device that's thinner that's lighter that's more powerful but it's sadly running iOS which is and not my not my cup of tea sadly i think i'm just spoiled by iOS 5 it was just so big it was such a big change that i was expecting for our for you know for the iphone 5 to bring something different I mean the 4s wasn't really great but it brought Siri and it was good enough for that to sell so the iPhone 5 is a beautiful design really nice the 4-inch form factor is the sweet spot for me um but sadly that's that's pretty much it when it comes to hardware that's the only thing you get 4G LTE you get a new a6 processor which is nobody knows if its quad-core not we know that I think it's dual core with a great architecture which just makes it even faster than some quad core processors but again it's just the real it's just a really nice design with last year's software that's what it is it's so funny you say that i was going if if Michael said to me Brandon what do you think about the iphone 5 I was going to say I was gonna say three thumbs up for the hardware four thumbs down for the software and I may just said that in more or less words and I totally agree yeah and imagine I I believe somebody a very handsome member of the team wrote a piece called the iphone 5 tomorrow's hardware running yesterday's software again very very handsome I don't think that's on the list of our attributes well I think you know I think it's nice that world got him on the same page here I III want to talk about the software in a second but the hardware you know there's a lot to like here first of all it is always interesting to me to see where our reader base sits and you know on a big news day like this you get a lot of comments you get a ton of feedback from the community and you can really kind of get to feel out at least the most vocal members of the community and it is amazing how how these people don't want to give Apple any slack whatsoever because most of our readers are not what you would call Apple fans the thing is I wrote that piece that I just talked about tomorrow's hardware running yesterday software and I got something like 33 comments in a few hours and any comment that disagreed with any element of my piece was disagreeing with me giving apple any credit whatsoever for the hardware like there were no defenders you know leaping to two apples you know defense everyone was just like what do you mean tomorrow's hardware but I think that we have to really give up a little some credit here and I know I may we have some industrial design kind of quanta qualms to talk about but uh I think as an extrapolation of what was happening on the 4s this is an okay improvement oh it's it is an improvement I mean to be honest with you I you know I was starting to talk about you know in the last double-oh-seven podcast about how jumbo phones are just becoming too uncomfortable and and you weren't agreeing with me with the HTC One X for example which in my prop my problem is with the phone is the weight distribution of the phone is just so bad that the phone is just too heavy on the One X and the One X yes which you don't get that problem with the Galaxy Nexus or the galaxy s3 for example even though it's a jumbo phone and what I like about the iphone for the iphone 5 sorry is the fact that it's it's bigger but it's not that big and it's much lighter so i am expecting for the experience to be good I just I don't know I'm just the the design is is good I mean they figured out a way to use aluminum back like in the first generation iphone and instead of using plastic at the bottom what they did was use glass for the antennas which is really smart but let's just hope we're not gonna have antenna gain issues with this phone then we'll just have to wait for the phone to be released to guess those are that's glass on the top and bottom of the back of the back plate is that correct yeah and you know it's funny because when I did the first impressions video I said you know finally you don't have to worry about cracking the back you drop your phone but actually that wasn't exactly right because now you've got three pieces of glass to crack and not to although that's the you know it seems that the the glasses is isn't in a place that wouldn't get hit and you for example would it would hit the edge first but it's still glass and you know it's beautiful and everything but it's you know I thought in this case I get away without needing a case even though I never use a case anyway and I destroy my phone's you slam your phone to ya what come on guys you slam your phone I've never seen anybody let's treat their phones more than I mate what you don't realize is that I'm doing durability tests when I slam I constant durability testing over the glossary Lipton I've got so much data on durability phone that's unreal you're the perfect editor for after the buzz man you really tell people what to expect yeah um I this is this kind of segues nicely what we're talking about Hardware on the iphone 5 here because I like while I appreciate it i think that it is a little bit dull but also it's different and it's different in some ways that are you know obviously the headphone jack has been moved to the bottom yuck that you've right I'm it does not like that I don't really mind that I don't know I got used to it on my galaxy nexus but what's interesting as you look at the bottom while you're looking at that and you see the speakerphone you know the speaker holes alongside the new dock connector are much much larger there they're drilled out to a larger degree and it kind of looks I really cheap and yeah kind of really ugly you mentioned this in a piece that you should read called what would Steve Jobs say about the iphone 5 which I want to talk about right now because this is a fascinating topic this phone got a little bit of buzz behind it on based on the fact that maybe it was the last prototypical iphone that Steve Jobs saw before he you know left the company yeah you don't think so it hit me know what's what's what's the story I don't think so see if you notice Apple Design look at any of the macbooks look at any of their previous products and you'll notice that the back of any product that they've launched it only has at most two different colors or two different materials but that's that's it and everything is either centered on one area or the other like for example on the macbook all you have is aluminum with a shiny apple or with the ipad you have just the back with the little apple and I don't know you've got two pieces of glass one at the top and one at the bottom then you've got an apple in the middle then you've got aluminum then you've got everything looking like a checkerboard that totally changes when you go into the borders and then you've got class at the front and then you look at the bottom and the speakers are not even symmetrically designed one is larger than the other and I'm like man Steve Jobs would have been like what what what is this I mean this is not apple you've never seen a macbook pro with with the one speaker larger than the other you've never seen that and I don't know it I don't feel that Steve Jobs would have been proud of this design I mean yes the the product is thinner can you believe that this phone is actually almost half lighter than the Nokia Lumia 920 that hasn't even been launched so yeah there are a lot of things that are going to set the bar for the next smartphones to come next year when it comes to thinness and lightness probably materials but then the design aesthetics of the device just don't look like steve jobs at all can we talk about that for a second I I am magnet I'm a rapidly dwindling minority member when it comes to wait on smartphones I don't like I don't want a lighter phone when the iphone 4s came out or the four came out and i hefted at it and it you know yeah it's heavy okay heavy to me says quality heavy to me says it's it's built of materials that are going to last like stainless steel not aluminum you know like like hardened glass and not plastic you know so it's like I don't know I don't want a lighter phone I I found it to be I found it quite disappointing when they said that this was a lighter device am I crazy you're crazy I think right good I think they you know we Jaime was talking about you know how device feels in the hand and it's so mysterious to me how how a device like the the 1x feels not so good for my hands typing whereas i get the galaxy s2 which is plasticky on the back and there's just something about the weighting of the phone and it can't be too light I agree Michael that makes it feel weak and cheap and in substantial but it can't be too too heavy to where your hands get tired and it's just it's almost some some mysterious quality and engineering that that must go into getting a phone to weigh the right amount I've got faith that the iPhone 5 is light uh to where it feels amazing but it's heavy enough to where it feels substantial and high-quality I mean they're not going to they're they're not going to release a product that people would say oh this feels like it's like air in my hands chintzy right yeah I'll give you an example and and you're gonna agree with me on this one how do you feel about your Galaxy Nexus I feel like it's broken oh you sorry red no no really how do you feel when you hold your Galaxy Nexus and type away I personally I I felt like I was coming home after I gave up a review device and I came back to the Galaxy Nexus I felt like that was the perfect device for me you know a lot of people criticize the hump at the bottom but that weight distribution of the hump allows for the phone to feel light but not too light and in my case I do a lot of typing on phones I do and even though i love the 1x i love it to death it's the most beautiful phone i've ever owned yeah my problem with it is the weight distribution is so high at the top that my pinky fingers become tired of holding the phone as i try to tight it's gotta be that image sense chimp up there I don't know what an amazing Canada I don't I don't know what it is I just feel that the Galaxy Nexus is a great example of a well-designed smartphone hump and all it feels great in the hand and and the iphone for the iphone 4s in the 4 and even the 3gs what i liked about the device is that it wasn't so heavy it was heavy up to the point where it then feel cheap but it wasn't too heavy in order for me to enjoy holding it while i typed so I'm expecting for the for the iphone 5 to feel the same that's just me yeah I hope so I you know we we will see there's a I'm kind of still looking at the the spec sheet here we have this it enhanced camera as well which which interested me first of all I don't want to give the thing short shrift on the display because this display this new 16 by 9 4 inch display is still with retina resolution at the three and 126 PPI but their Apple is claiming forty four percent more color saturation uh so it's so funny that they say that because then I think I myself this phone has to have over saturated color because the iphone 4s had one of the best screens and then I take out my 4s and I look at the icons and I'm like you know what this this green could be a lot greener and this blue could be bluer and so is it because you've spent so much time from Samsung phones like with Super AMOLED with the really poppin color or you know I I think so i think i think Super AMOLED screens kind of set the benchmark in color saturation yeah and else lcds by design have lower color saturation so and and you know if you if you pull up a black screen on the iphone 4s it's not entirely black it's like really dark grey yeah so I mean maybe they fix that maybe they have some of the characteristics of AMOLED with the quality of LCD I we will see I it was one of the things that I was very happy to see in the announcement it's so nice to see a company focus on something other cuz apples already won that you know the pixel war right like it's like here look the it's it's a Retina quality display we're going to call it whatever we want but it's a really high pixel density display so the next thing we're going to do is do color better and I think some people probably wouldn't agree i think people Brandon I think you're one of the ones who kind of prefers more accurate color whereas I have this really tacky element of my of my taste where I'm like no man if there's color I want I want super color you know I want there to be like the greenest green I've ever seen just popping off the screen yummy so yeah and just to give you I some of the comments yesterday on our post for like I can't believe this iphone doesn't bring a high-definition display 720p anyways I'm like why would you want 720p on such a small screen it's it's it's a good point honey but it's also kind of ridiculous if you think about it because when the iphone 5 plays back video and it'll do it without letterboxing or black bars it'll have two down sample 12 1280 by 720 into 11 36 x 640 which which is it's not really true to life and it's also kind of weird and not standard it is yeah it's a very odd set of numbers there that you don't see very often um you've got a good point there yes yes I mean I'd feel how much how much what would be the pixels per inch of a 720p display on four inches no don't worry about making the numbers I'm just um do you really think the downtown sampling will make any difference on a screen that small is the question I mean 720p makes sense on a 4-point x 45 inch screen but on on a foreign screener I don't know I don't know uh answer is 3 367 all right in the calculation that would be the headaches per inch frating yeah that's that's gonna be insane I mean I'm not trying to say that Apple shouldn't have brought an HD display probably that's what we're gonna see in the next iPhone 6 let me let the rumors begin yeah that was like one of our favorite tweets from yesterday was like after today now we can all start looking forward to the iphone 6 yeah but but still I'm just you know for all those that are bashing the display I want to see to believe Apple has done a good job ever since the four and I don't think this displays gonna disappoint even though it's not HD I don't think it's kind of disappointing they're really but I have a question about that my roommate posed to me while I was drawing up the outline for the podcast here actually which is about the developer question you know we saw at the announcement yesterday there was some discussion about existing apps running with black bars to the left and right in landscape and how iOS is you know development framework makes it easy to to scale up your apps if you want to and then they showed off CNN an open table which they always love showing off all these companies just love love pimping open table I've never used it I should use it I guess but like what do you what is the story there like is it as easy as as Apple is saying or are we going to have a long period sort of like we had with the initial iPad we're like we're kind of running scaled up apps waiting for apps to be rewritten for a while well the good thing is the pixels aren't really changing when it comes to density so the app is still going to look good all you're gonna have is two black bars on the top and the bottom 888 pixels of 88 pixels that's right um the only problem you'll have and if anybody relies on old you know old applications that were designed by people that are probably not supporting them anymore like the free apps from from from the beginning that is going to be a problem because most likely those applications are going to stay that way for example i have this converter application that's free and i've had it ever since the fourth a mount for example and i don't see any of that i haven't seen any updates for that happen in a year so so most likely yes those kind of applications are going to be you know sadly not going to be updated um but again it's it's going to be cumbersome at the beginning but like like we saw with the iPad or like we saw with the iphone for all it took developers was probably a month and i think it took more for apple to approve the apps than for the changes to be a hammy approved so and you know one thing about the iowa six sdk is that it includes a way for for applications to be dynamic so that they can work on both larger displays and short of this place so i think that that's all they have to do i don't think it's gonna take long yeah and in fact when when the ipad 3 came out i was very closely watching how long it would take for the apps to be updated for retina and and all not all but I a big percentage of the major apps like New York Times and Amazon and so forth were updated by day one because because they had like a week or two or three or however long the pre-order period was to get it ready but you know I think that developers are getting really used to this process where Apple changes the hardware and they have to they have to scramble to update the software so I I think a month might actually be a bit longer than then it's actually going to take it's probably going to be more like two weeks or three weeks and and something else I actually want to mention um that's sort of interesting so Android has crept up in resolution over time you know the g1 was like what hvga and then we got wvga and then we got qhd then we got 720p and we really haven't gotten above 720p but with each each iteration of screen resolution what has happened to the apps they've basically been stretched out right yeah yeah but and even in a lot of cases we talk about this all the time on the podcast you get like a like a like a transformer prime infinity with 1920 x 1200 resolution and you run the Twitter app on it and it is just like discussed comical it's comical it's like a three-year-old could have could have done something like that but what act but what Apple does is they interestingly frame it differently when I think it was Phil Schiller when he was talking about the increased amount of pixels going you know up beyond the 960 going to the 1136 he didn't say you know you know it won't take very long for for developers to stretch out their abs he said he won't take very long for developers to figure out ways to make apps better and take advantage of that screen space here are several examples of before and after and so what he is doing by standing on stage and saying that is that he's paving the way for higher quality apps than even we're seeing today on the iPhone because he's saying that these apps should not be just stretched they should be better it should be really designed to be better yes exactly and and you don't see the Google guys really talking about this much as I just interesting still you don't and ambien we've been talking about this since since the podcast started since before which in since I came aboard since before then you know is this Google's lack of focus on on creating an application environment you know I on incentivizing developers to build tablet-optimized apps or write apps off 24 different screen sizes I agree and I guess one of the problems with that is just that if I'm a developer I'm gonna go crazy developing apps for six different screen sizes right where is now with with iOS you do basically to you do ipad and and an iphone / ipod touch and now you gotta get I I think it'll I think it'll be three because obviously the 4s and the poor are still gonna remain true rats good point yeah and then you and then you've got the ipad 2 so that's actually what that's for well I don't know I mean I don't know if you were if you actually have to make four separate apps or if it's a situation like you make one and app for the iPad 2 and then it's got some extra lines of code to boost the resolution and some some placement changes for the ipad 3 I don't know it works that way I will leave that for developers but yeah it'll be interesting i just i do like the approach also i find that ironic that android being a software company doesn't push this any any further than Apple does but you know aside from my curiosity of how the how developers will handle this on iOS I wonder what developers are going to do windows phone 8 you know with new screen resolutions and everything you know yeah that's a really good question but anyways that's another topic it is but we've got um III while we're talking about this so I don't leave the iphone quite yet because we have we've covered the hardware but I have a question and this is kind of a personal question so we're gonna get to know each other a little bit better and am I crazy am I and I want to ask this to both of you but hi may I think you are the one I'd like to ask first like because you love the iOS ecosystem you're an iPhone guy or an iPad guy ah but I am so tired of iOS of iOS is kind of visual aesthetic and I have to check myself sometimes because I'll write a piece like I rode yesterday and I'll be like is it just me being a UI snob does does everyone else can everyone else live with this kind of static grid of icons that we've had since 2007 you mentioned before that you're not a fan of it but how much a gear enough of a fatter like you can tolerate it like you're sticking with the platform is your daily driver and you still like it so what is it about that I mean like what first of all what would you like to see changed and second of all why why are you not jumping ship and don't say ecosystem lock in because that's a cop-out haha he's gonna use gonna say that ecosys ecosystem wagon oh yes I have 250 apps out of which I own over 300 I've got 30 gigabytes of music out of which I've purchased around I don't know like like a half of it I've got books I've got movies it's more of an ecosystem walk out but um probably to be honest with you let's just be frank about this I hate the grid of icons but when you were writing that piece and as I was reading it yesterday I you know I there were certain there was just one aspect that I didn't agree with and it was the title um because you know its iOS is not really yesterday's software in my personal opinion okay just I just I feel for example Syria I mean try to compare Syria with us boys you just can't no but I mean I'm in the most literal sense Siri is old like Siri is yesterday's news because she came out at which is coming on the 4s right there was a year ago I mean this long yep yeah but the thing is it'll still be not yesterday's heart software since not not nobody else has been able to do it s voice is trash on google's voice searches is getting better but it's not there yet so yes sirree makes the operating system look new but yes if you have to ask me about the grid of icons I hate them I can't believe that Apple at this point in time five years later they haven't figured out how to make those icons animated I I find it stupid that you have a clock icon that doesn't give you've got it you've got a weather icon and this is stupid I've got this application called Celsius which in the United States you could buy a spare in height and the only reason i buy it is because the badge at the top gives me the real temperature and it's it's just stupid i mean how can i OS not do that right only 73 degrees yeah it's always 7th right in its eye and you know i probably my biggest letdown and this is true is when I saw iOS 6 beta 2 and I send it to you and I and I and I begun looking looking at the update and I saw that the that the Settings icon begun animating itself movie with the update I was like oh my god okay fine we're fine we're not gonna get widgets but we're gonna get animated icons fine I could live with that and then boom you know that's my point ever since the beginning of this podcast I love the iphone 5s design yes I do um I hate the software iOS 6 is boring yeah you're really boring is it like a Cadillac with the Buicks internals I think you said exactly that exactly that's what i said it's we've got a Ferrari here in design and everything and then we've got the interiors of the Buick I completely agree now how how is I mean Brandon are you on the same page there or you uh what's your what's your thing yeah I am on the same page and you know for me it's about it's about control because I'm someone of the control freakin in my life my wife doesn't really like that about me but um so you know one of the reasons I I feel like I use Android half the year and I use iOS the other half and Windows Phones like maybe for a month or two um I I always come back to Android because I can control everything so if I want to have my home screen give me my agenda with my battery percentage and a quick shortcut to call my wife I can do that I can do anything that I want and then I take out my iphone and even if I wanted to I couldn't make it look different I can change the wallpaper whoop-dee-doo I can add more folders which open to slowly anyway what they do I can move around the icons but I can't even place them where I want because they're aligned to a left alignment grid right so for me it just it gets it gets exhausting using the iPhone because I that that sense of control that I have it just cannot be fulfilled now because you can you can you do all that if you jailbreak yeah not really not really um there are winterboard options but they're not they're not great salary how breakings a dirty practice uh yeah the winter boards the winterboard themes aren't great i jailbroke my suffered yeah i jailbroke my iphone 4 and i did a series of videos showing some pretty cool stuff you could do like you can you can really you can android a Phi it a little bit but what happens is because jailbreaking is even less supportive then than a you know hacking Android things get slow fast and then suddenly you don't get software updates and it just gets dirty real fast yeah I was that is a good counterpoint because I was definitely going to bring up the point that this is the same man who said to a to a listener be a man and and root your Android I wish I wish y'all breaking was a better story in iOS but it's just last I checked and it's no well maybe it's better but um that you can control everything literally but it just gets messy dirty and smell really fast it's not it's not and I'll give you a couple of examples I'm a multilingual guy speak English in Spanish and for example there are some stupid things on iOS and I'm like why why don't these guys fix it like for example I sometimes one Syria to work in Spanish but if i wanted to work in spanish i have to go with iOS 6 obviously i have to go to settings and then switch the language I mean how could it be so difficult to put a stupid button on Cirie that allows me to switch the language that that's you know and you know just to be fair with iOS iOS customers okay what things do i love about iOS try to read HTML email on android nobody does email better than the iphone that's just a truth and it is it is i mean if you get HTML email on android you get a small portion of it and you have to pan around and with the iphone you get everything centered it's just smart um the messaging app is better there are certain things about iOS that are superior um but again as I posted my editorial i feel that a Steve Jobs said hey when the iphone came out it was five years out of its time the software was and he was right but the problem is those five years ended max and when you've got with when you've got something like Android 4.1 jelly bean my god I mean I would jelly bean it just becomes difficult for iOS to compete like that yeah i was i was thinking that the other day i was using the iphone i was on vacation recently and I'll using the iphone because i love the camera and i love to be able to take pictures they show up on my ipad i get back to the hotel room i can review them um but but then uh right after i got back from my vacation i used my galaxy s3 which is jelly bean and I'm used to going from the iphone to an android and being like oh this is not as smooth and not as nice but like that is not true anymore like like you said hi make it like jelly bean has fixed android to make it as smooth and responsive isn't as as iOS and it that's amazing because you know that doesn't always happen I feel like other platforms come out and you're like wow if only this were a smooth that's say iOS and then you kind of like wait and wait and wait through iteration after iteration it just never happens and I think project butter is probably one of the most under celebrated and significant developments in Android ever it's probably under celebrated because it's on one point to two percent of devices very true and yeah that's that's a big Android problem but you're absolutely right returning to an Android device that's running jellybean like I ihop back and forth between the ipad in my Nexus 7 it is not at all the same experience as it used to be hopping back and forth between my iPad and say the touchpad running ICS you know cm9 whatever you know so I completely agree and it's the other manufacturers the other software developers they're all bringing the heat and Apple is going to be caught with its pants down if it stays with the the concepts behind iOS as they are now for much longer and I guess that that's my question I kind of want to know we're nerds we're talking about this from the standpoint of people who love this stuff and who talk about this stuff all day when is the average Joe going to get fed up with boring boring iOS because it's not happening right now I still talk to people left and right everywhere who are like oh you don't have an iphone but why you know with this kind of sympathetic town like I can't afford one or maybe I'm stupid or sometimes ya know it's yes it's happening now it's happening now the galaxy s3 is the best soul smartphone for last month it's happening now when had you ever seen android cell 20 million phones in a hundred days that's what's happening now and you know it's just funny because I got this comment yesterday it was really good probably the best car man I've ever read and with and what the guy was saying was like the reason why the iPhone is so successful is because the average Joe wants simplicity and you know the guys right the guys right i mean i asked everybody and everybody just want something simple just what then work exactly they just want it to work but then when you've got something like the galaxy s3 that first of all the design is beautiful um second of all men Samson's marketing is probably the best piece of work that I've ever seen it's amazing they've got marketing everywhere they've got billboards in bathrooms I think I mean you wanted a yes yes one anyways I agree yeah they've got they've got billboards in bathrooms they've got they've gone where marketing has never gone before it's very true and I just I feel that they're doing a great job and making Android relevant they're doing a great job and you know its product placement that's what that's what it's called in marketing they're doing a great job and it's been so well and they've sold so many phones and that's the point I mean the average Joe is no longer the average show the average Joe evolved five years ago no longer is the smartphone a niche product that's only base for geeks everybody has a smartphone now and we said it an episode double-oh-seven we can't really impress anybody anymore anymore with a smartphone everybody's got maps everybody's got abs and so right now everybody has a smartphone and they have the choice of thinking the biggest hype or the biggest what you know the iphone is gonna end up being yesterday's phone if Scott Forstall doesn't come out of his comfort zone there's there's one force here that I think we're under estimating which is the fact that everyone has an iphone let me explain one of the reasons another reason i like to use the iphone half of the year is because all of my friends all of my family literally have an iphone probably because i told them to get one and and what that means is that i can do things with them I cannot do with other people I can I message them I can now do shared photostream I can facetime them I can do find my friends with them all those four things really really make it compelling for me to pick up and use an iPhone and that's I think actually a missed opportunity for the iphone 5 yeah iOS 6 has shared photo streams so all those millions and millions devices that are capable of having iOS 6 will be able to do that I think that's an awesome feature but I really think that that Apple could have come up with some other interesting iPhone to iPhone technology because finally it's not kind of pompous to do that it's actually reasonable and valuable because so many people have the iphone mm-hmm I think shared photostream is gonna go down I mean you've got facebook already what's the point this is all that's what i was thinking yesterday i was looking at the announcement I've never used photostream because I don't have that iOS ecosystem so maybe I'm exactly the wrong kind of person to be thinking about that too but Brandon you seemed like the perfect example photostream is coolest thing ever and shared photostream um yeah you know I think it is ridiculous that you can like you can like a picture you can put comments on it that's kind of stupid because that kind of it's almost like the ping effect right like we don't want we don't want another place to like and do stuff you want to stay on Facebook and Twitter and whatever else and apple doesn't know how to do social media they've proved that more than once so they should not be doing that I you should not they should not be doing it but the fact that like you know I'm at Michael imagine or you know I imagine going to a bachelor party all your friends have iphones and you guys are just like you guys shoot pictures and then they show up on your friends phone and then something fun and it's no longer like it's no longer like hey look at the picture i took last night it's it's like I I know I saw it when I was walking back last night you idiot look what you did at that crazy all right and it and that's what Samsung is trying to do with whatever there is that book buddy share one of the billions of features that they brought up with the galaxy s3 where you have to tap your phone against someone else's phone no no no it's a continuous stream it's just like photostream oh yeah what's that the problem is it's not across the entire galaxy product portfolio you have to have a galaxy s3 ah at the moment which is ridiculous even though it's selling so many millions and millions of units it's still not enough to get that critical mass and i think you're right i think Apple has reached that point with the iphones you know penetration where it's like oh yeah they can actually start doing this and do this blackberry messenger effect that worked so well for rim back in the day because they were sort of the only game in town even though there were other smart phones out there blackberry was a much more prevalent choice uh you know the iPhone 5 is gonna be successful and it's gonna be successful because and I'm gonna lay this on the table Apple is showing everybody how you launch a product on more time they have a release date they have pre-order time which is tomorrow um ask ask anybody when is the Lumia 920 gonna be launched damn it it just pisses me off it looks like every time you go to an event they're like what does the HTC One X going to come out and oh they silently announced that in April um this is what really infuriates me of everybody else that's not Apple the fact that I know when I can buy the phone and I know what and I know what carriers are going to get it and I know when it's going to be international and which options do I get and I know that from day one so even if the Nokia Lumia 920 is a superior device when it comes to speeches and everything on insulin after know people is that people are not gonna waiting I'm not gonna wait for it because it's there's no defined period that they can say okay on this day I'll be able to buy it I just think about it it's the fall season I mean how many people do you think are gonna be waiting to know whatever nokia is gonna be launching the product they're not gonna wait and to be honest with you this has nothing to do with nokia i feel that milk is not at fault here I feel like it's microsoft's fault I didn't listen samson could not feature the ateam s in their announcement because the operating system was not ready and the same thing happened with no k I mean Adam was at the events and they didn't even let him touch the device because the operating system was not ready so nokia if you're listening to this please I love windows phone but you need to go android if you want to succeed bad ah look oh god that made me feel bad inside yeah just personal did you throw up in your mouth a little Brandon I might have Koopa little guys guys come on no I purse often Microsoft has lost their edge they're behaving like a government and not like a software they are the others yes they are sluggish they are they're crawling their ponderously huge and they cannot become agile again to save their lives I agree listen we're already talking about it let's talk about it that we haven't even covered this okay the Nokia Lumia 820 @ 9 20 wherein head wait a second wait a second before we move on to windows when I just have a question for you too um what color of iphone do you want uh-huh that is so funny because I actually have a screen up right now with the two different colors because I'm trying to design you're trying to decide huh well I'll tell you I would get the white one because I because 40 billion people are gonna have the black one and I want the white one let's see we that's funny you say that because I thought it would be the opposite we did a poll yesterday let's see what the poor results say the polls say I didn't put this in the outline because uh well I just I'm glad that you brought it up homie um it seems like black is the is the winner in terms pocketnow cumshaw missed okay i'm getting the white one by the way that's me retail i feel i feel the black ones cool it just it's like if we're comparing a Ferrari with a Mercedes it's just the black one looks futuristic but the white one looks elegant that's not why you're getting the white one you're gonna you're getting the white one cuz it photographs better oh yeah that's true well to be honest with you yes it's much easier to film a white phone on a review than a black woman yes that's that's another that's another point another point no no III agree i think the white one is is elegant i think that is a nice word I feel like what he had a pose that was like was it was it you how many was kind of like lambasted other people for for further endless praises of the hardware but I feel like elegant is exactly the right word for this kind of thing yeah yeah I think that's that's it hey guys before before we move on I just want to bring up one more thing with the iphone 5 yeah it's a big deal something that I don't think anyone's really talking about but I think it's an interesting story so Apple tends to pay attention to things that normal normally are skipped over let me give you example the magsafe adapter I mean previous to that um people had these clunky adapters that if you tripped over it your whole computer would come crashing to the ground it would be difficult to and put it into the hole no she said jokes place but um but here's a belittling very interesting yesterday they redefined reinvented a little bit the included cheapo earbuds they're no longer cheapo there they're a $29 accessory called earpods that have been engineered and studied over time and it's just really interested they kind of D commoditized the earbud for a sec yeah yeah they did and I think that is significant yeah go ahead i mean i'm looking forward to trying them out i have no opinion on them yet for the record the current earbuds before those ear pods cost twenty nine dollars just the same ah and they are cheap oh oh yeah you know for me that your pods I'd like to try to believe I just want to try them out but for me these these apple ear plugs which I'm actually you for this podcast because they've got they've got a good microphone or at least they try but you know they're good i just like the controls that's the only thing i like that's all i'm looking for because their quality is you know I wish tony was here because he hates I hate them too III don't mind the earbuds themselves but you know that the the control module on the wire is the perfect example of Apple taking form over function way too far because it is this beautifully squared off little you know little button module on the wire but it looks great but you wear a shirt with a collar and that thing is getting hung up all the time on your right side collar and it's like popping out your ear button it's the most annoying thing and then Samsung having learned nothing and forgotten nothing about copying other people's BS that's exactly the same thing on the set of earphones I'm currently wearing and I am wearing a collared shirt like I usually do and just every time i turn my head it's like BAM and just rips it out of my ear it's stupid so it looks like the new ear pods have tapered that design a little bit and I'm that's probably what I'm most excited about with the new ear putt yeah hosting it's funny where we're using the same headphones my boy years white too yeah samsung white from the galaxy s3 yep yeah so so what's what's sort of interesting to take this one step further for a sec is that there's this whole huge industry for really high-end ear ear buds or earphones um but it's really intimidating because they can get three or four hundred dollars they have very fancy acoustics that that only audio files can really understand an apple sort of has has brought that to the masses and has sort of redefined something that we all take for granted these white earbuds that come in everett with every iphone now they're now they're potentially much better although some people that were trying them on some of the other tech sites said that they were definitely better but not like you know the three hundred dollar headphones that you can you can get if you do enough research they're they're not made by Bose that's what they said they're not they're not made by boos although I I think true audiophiles don't use bows products he's right right but glad I've got a bluetooth pair of sennheiser headphones that you know are for audio files or at least audio files who can tolerate bluetooth stereo and they screw up all the time so I'm not I have no faith or trust in or loyalty to any sound hardware designer right now because they've I've just had horrible up with all them I don't know you want me to say something about headphones I'm just a desperate Apple i I just I just I'm just surprised that Apple is not using wire a wireless headset you know if their headset is crashy anyways it's trashy so why not make it wireless and make some use of Bluetooth 4.0 I know I don't know I don't know can they make a better protocol or something I don't know they could have done that with the iphone 5 minute and they've been you know that that's exactly good point actually Apple has Apple loves redesigning and reinventing stuff and then re releasing it in a better form and bluetooth you know wireless audio desperately needs that because bluetooth as a protocol for it in my opinion is not very good I'm always dropping the connection pairing as always not necessarily difficult but at least cumbersome there's so many better ways to do it and nobody's done it yet because for some reason we're all married to having these tethers between our ears and the thing in our pocket that gets hung up on seat belts and doorknobs and shirt collars and I am so fed up with wires and speaking of which and this is the last thing I want to say about the iphone 5 for me you guys keep keep talking about but the fact that we didn't get wireless charging I nobody else cares I know but I know nobody cares but the fact that that Nokia is rolling it out for their new devices is awesome the fact that Apple couldn't build that in and also didn't include NFC another wireless standard that I really like I i I'm just I was endlessly disappointed by both of those things you want me to tell you something about wireless charging so so badly yes okay whenever the charger is smaller than the phone I'll probably like it well hold on that that happened in 2009 shall I send you my palm pre listen come on I've got the part that I've got the pre three man and that that that can rock that charger rock that it included it's like um come on what's the point of a wireless charger of the charging port is going to be so big wait it's not bigoted something is it something you're gonna be carrying in your bag of it's so big its voluminous no it's not yeah it is that it's a great word no but it's not that's not the point of the of the wireless charging dock those live at home and when you travel yeah you take your you know USB cable with you and then you're reminded of how convenient it is to have your wireless charging at home I mean have you ever used wireless charging on your daily driver hi may not not a pre three that's you know that you don't use no not really and to the engine is amazing but the read the reason is this before I before I work the pocket now I used to work in Airlines and I did that for 15 years and for me the size of every you know for me I travel light so I am the type of guy that looks for the smallest accessories possible and if you ask me the question and what I ever spent a dime on a wireless charger my answer would be no we even if something like you left at home like it's not something you would bring with you know because I'd have to buy it and then why would I buy another wireless charger when I could just use the same wire it'll do the same job and does the same job but poorly like why would I buy an iphone when I can just buy like a samsung you know transform ultra I mean ultimately they do the same job you know what I mean like one of them does it better I feel like I don't know here we go how may I owe you about forty two beers for all the favors you've done me so I think instead of those I'm gonna I'm gonna get you a wireless charger for a device of yours and I'm gonna ask you to use it for two weeks and then when I want to revisit this conversation is there is their sleeve you can put on the iphone 4s that makes it a work with a wireless charging system yeah I think there is so there is there isn't terrible it's the powermat but it's just so big you're like white and this is that's lame I feel this is the problem when companies don't really understand what enables a product what enables a mobile phone is for it to be light portable and easy to carry around what enables a charger is for it to be uninsured so when you have a charger that's bigger or the same size of the phone why would people ever want to buy the separate thing now if you include the wireless charger in the box people are going to use it but nobody in the right mind would ever buy it separately that's they were sold out on launch weekend for the pre Aaron people will there is a market for this and it is a cool thing particularly if you build in like location-aware features into it which is also really cool like tectiles that samsung is doing but I don't know we should we can we can I do this now I do it can I do this nokia little me no no no not yet now i'm more thing course though we're think I I think it's you know it Apple solved a big problem with the Lightning charging thing and I I think it's got very unfortunate and frustrating that once again they've invented a new standard especially now that we have to use that heinous expensive stupid converter adapter yeah but but I think it's really damn cool that you can plug in the iphone uh either a right side up or upside down because so many times I maybe fumbled at coming home from a night uh you know a night out I don't know what I'm doing for certain reasons and I try to plug in the charger to my iphone and I I like miss it because you have to look at the you have to look at it to see the little lines with you know you're on the top yeah and that sucks and you know microUSB is is sort of the same way although I'm for some reason that's easier i don't know why but but with this lightning thing you don't even have to think about it yes so my own my only gripe with lightning you know is the fact that i've got an itrip I've got so many docs and and that you know I wish that that adapter would have a way of making the phone stand or something because it for me all my accessories are pretty much obsolete as of yesterday yeah yeah yeah no it's true but you know i'm not i'm not gonna use the accessory that's it you know what's uh what's an even cooler way of docking things and you know transferring things and doing stuff is like wirelessly which um you know company out of finland nokia has done okay let's move on to know oh thank god okay um this is important because there are some parallels here with the iphone with the iphone launch and and you know so we can still kind of tie an apple of this because this is huge news but the Nokia announcement happened on September 5th which i think i was in the middle of flying back from Berlin and we had Adam covering the event in new york city nokia released as everyone knows that the Nokia Lumia 820 and 920 their new windows phone 8 handsets which for me are just endlessly more exciting than the iphone launch because nokia has done some different stuff Dave we've just discussed the wireless charging obviously there are there doing the polycarbonate thing but they're doing this kind of like super glaze coating on it which I don't necessarily like there's what is this it's 32 gigs of internal storage on the 920 that they're calling the camera PureView which we would need to talk about because I think that's a total train wreck what I want to ask I mean how does this how does your excitement level between the two devices compare hi may I think I know your answer but I do want to have your answer anyway but Brandon what which I mean you use Windows Phones maybe two months out of the year you said and yeah what's your what's your situation on this because I am really excited about the 920 I'm glad the 820 is there but you know the 920 is obviously where my focus is um I don't know I tell me what you're what you're feeling is on there I I kind of always like Windows Phone because for me it's got the reliability the simplicity and the smoothness of iOS but it gives you a little bit of that Android pneus by allowing you to customize your home screen and you know I thought Windows Phone 8 was pretty brilliant and allowing you to have multiple resizable tiles although you could argue that's not that brilliant that's just a reasonable thing to do um the the the Lumia 920 is um really really sweet looking hardware the fact that that screen is so high resolution it's AMOLED it's got a dual-core processor it's got windows phone 8 and and by the way something that I didn't realize until recently is in Windows Phone 8 you lose the the right-facing arrow button on your home screen allowing you to have wider basically a column isn't used up by by the black yeah exactly exactly which which makes the the home screen I think much more usable and beautiful I think this is just gonna be such a beautiful experience and a beautiful phone and I'm so excited about it and I love what they did with the 820 with a removable back because it's not it's not like a gimmicky um you know skin that goes on top of something it's like the actual backing of the device that you can change out and and I think that's cool because I think it gets boring when you have the same you know phone for two years and maybe one day you decide I want to be yellow tonight because I'm going I want to match my my tuxedo yellow yellow tuxedo that's gonna be nice I won't be putting my I am really excited about the 920 I think it's just so premium looking the software's gonna be amazing and I just I can't wait to try it yeah I completely agree i like I admire bold moves and Nokia didn't depart too much from their Lumia 900 design with this but they've made some significant changes and some feature additions that are that are really important meeting yeah exactly um hi mate what's your you know what's your feeling on this would you carry one of these as you know as somebody okay as an average guy for the record I will buy a 920 you would yes yes I'll look for it in white and I'll buy one I do you know the camera um the the screen the design of the phone is just beautiful I like it I really do I you know my biggest problem with windows phone is that you've got really genius operating system it looks you know it looks really good but I would always get pissed off and taking a photograph I would never be able to get a good photograph on anyone those phone that I've used my software oh yeah I mean not even on the Titan not on the dell venue pro always the photos are either moved or something and you had that same experience with the Lumia 900 well then Lumia 900 had really horrible optics but I used to samsung focus for a number of months and I really I got some really good photos out of that one oh me too well okay that's when I was about to tell you that's free mango for some reason photos on Windows Phone were great before mango and I don't know what happened after mango that's interesting i mean i think i was running I was running mango on the on the focus when I was when I was cross country but so you think that's something there was a serious software tweak that really jacked up windows phones yeah but but but as of the operating system some really I really have high expectancies for the Lumia for you I do want I I do want the Lumia 920 that's me I the design is pretty much the culmination of what the Lumia was from the beginning and this is like okay this is the perfected product here you go and I feel that they've got a hit there um sadly um the on the other side I just I feel that the 820 is what the 920 should have been because you know who's gonna buy 920 the 920 is going to be bought by power users and the irony is that you get expandable storage on the 820 that you don't get on the 920 and then one of the things that I used to love about HTC designed for example is that you could remove the whole back plate in order to leave only the screen and then just switch the back plate so if you if you if the phone fell off your hands and you got a dented or something all you had to do was buy a back plate you have a new phone so that's that's another thing that I like about the 820 and I just I feel that if they would have brought the elements of the 820 when it came to you know expandable storage and everything so the 920 would have been a much better product do you think that did you you as far as people buying it you actually bring up an interesting question in my mind do you think that carriers will that nokia and microsoft will strike another deal with carriers to get them to so heavily subsidize these like AT&T did with the 900 do you think there's I hope really high focus push I hope but you know what they did with the Lumia 900 was a mistake because they priced it they pressed it so aggressively that people have the opinion of the Lumia 900 being cheap I mean I see how that could could be possible I don't know is that I mean they sold a lot and they sell like four million and two months or something no no they didn't get that one they say didn't get that far almost but listen Lumia phones not Lumia 900 sorry yeah that's not family I'm talking specifically a balloon e900 and you know just just to make a point I feel that nokia has a really great product it is the culmination of what they were supposed to do years ago and you know this is the nokia that i remember by the way for the record my first three four cell phones that i've ever owned were no okay I was a no cab all the way a full no get customer um and I'm just glad to see Nokia come back to its roots of design and just the whole package looking as great as it does my only disappointment is that I don't know when it's gonna launch and I'm not gonna wait for it that's just me Brandon I think the Lumia 900 was uh was a badly timed device it came out when did it come out so yes CES when when was it actually available for sale ah sure like I think it was on our two months later yeah two months later yeah it was in the spring as I recall ya later than it was it was a strange time they discounted it too quickly the galaxy s3 was was coming out and was was announced shortly thereafter it was just stomped on Windows Phone 8 was announced and then the the horrible horrible horrible news that Windows Phone 8 would not be capable of running on the the flagship windows phone um it was just a lot of bad timing for the Lumia 900 which you know I think if if Microsoft was a little bit better at executing and in terms of software releases and planning and such I think it could have been a lot bigger but there was just so much against it well I want to I want to ask you guys a question yeah um and this is a personal question um I like Windows Phone and I know you guys do but have you ever done the exercise of trying to give Windows Phone to either a child or a senior citizen or an average user and asking them what they think about the operating system it to gave it to him that they got smoked by it she just smoked him right away no seriously seriously because you know I I gave my grandfather a couple of months ago I gave him my nexus one um and even though it was complicated for him to learn android the advantage of the skeuomorph in the design just made everything easy for him to learn the operating system and so did i give my father and android phone last week and he just liked it but the problem is that i showed my father both the dell venue pro and i showed him the the HTC sensation and I I asked them you know which one do you like the most and he was like I don't know I find the HTC device better he was like and I just find that the problem with Windows Phone and this is probably going to happen to Lumia 920 also is you know Microsoft is just so blind with their Metro UI that they don't really know if people like it or not it hasn't really sold in two years so do you guys think that it's gonna succeed because I don't think it is sadly I mean if I if I if you tell them talk talk to me about like my gut feeling and stuff I mean it's I I have very serious concerns about Windows Phones future not because of Microsoft's lack of trying I think they're gonna keep throwing money at it until it succeeds but that also might require some changes I don't know if Metro is a winning ticket i think Metro is so so advanced it's such a strange unique combination of retro and futuristic that I'm not sure it will be accessible to many to most people I remember the looks I used to get though when i was at bars with my focus you know and I'd have it out on the table and it would light up for some reason people be like oh my god what is that is that true that's not android is it you know so it it got people's attention and people did seem to like it in their time with it because also that device happened to be very responsive like most Windows Phone devices so it has the ingredients for success i'm not sure i don't think i would ever advocate it to my to my parents know or do my grandparents earnings like that i don't think it's necessarily a a what is our metric on the reviews are granny user a granny user yeah you knowing and then probably probably the example is not the correct one what I what I'm trying to say is so far what I've noticed that is that the average user doesn't like Windows Phone it could probably change once windows 8 is out and everybody's forced to use metro whether they like it or not but so far it hasn't been the case so I do feel that the Lumia is going to be a great product I just don't feel it's gonna get the push that you know that that it's that it deserves and just by the experience of what happened to the Lumia 900 and at all the marketing in the world and still the phone didn't sell hmm so I that's unfair to say first I don't think we have enough data to say it didn't sell I know it didn't blow up the market but i think it's sold Oh trust me if it would have sold they would have told you its soul well I yeah well that's true but I don't think it was it was a sales disaster but go ahead love it it wasn't Brandon come on come on uh-huh so so I am reminded of uh of have either of you ever taken a micro economics class oh man I tell you oh yeah love it yeah well yeah where they they talk about you know sort of different kinds of uh you know if you have multiple companies there's an oligopoly gah Polly I don't I don't know if I'm saying oh yes but it turns out that in almost every major industry there are usually there's a leader then there's someone close behind and then there's a usually a distant third but a very important distant third that matters because people like to root for the underdog and usually the distant third has an interesting product it's just that there's some Thor some barrier to entry may be the first two were first or they they have a lower price or something like that and I think the same is going to exist for a while in the mobile phone industry weather's going to be iOS Android and a distant third windows phone for for the foreseeable future until Microsoft decides that it's not making money for them and they need to pull the plug which I don't I don't think that they're going to do that for the foreseeable future because mobile is so important than Microsoft with an infinite amount of cash is going to do whatever it takes to keep this thing going and another thing is that the windows phone it's not like it's it's bad it's a good product and I think we all agree that at the end of the day it's a good product it's compelling it's different yeah so I don't have that same gut feeling that you do Michael that windows phone is not going to survive the test of time because i think the the sort of the way that these industries kind of shape up plus the fact that you know they have a good product is very much but its welfare for microsoft that's a very good point and you know to be completely fair I was not thinking about Windows 8 which I played with extensively at Aoife on tablets on convertibles on computers and once microsoft has manages to kind of force metro what used to be called metro design language into the minds of the consumers through windows which is still a very powerful desktop influence i think that will drive adoption of windows phones because they're both for now there you know excuse me finally they're very cool vista was definitely not cool windows 7 was much better people like it but i think its suffered from vistas kind of stink a little bit and as a result Windows has been a bad word even in the mobile space when people say oh it's a windows oh and well no I don't think I want to go near that but now you know once once windows 8 kind of gains ground it which it will do very quickly that may help that is fun a lot it now now tell me mr. zune pass customer branded minimun what do you think of all this because um I I have 60 ebooks from Microsoft reader that I lost when Microsoft ditched windows mobile and I didn't get uh you know I didn't get a Nana zon gift card or anything to compensate for the money that I lost so I mean this is my problem with Microsoft just like they just ditched the zune and they're ditching the zoo software and the zune pass and every every you know every song that everybody purchased when they move on to a new computer they're gonna lose everything so do you trust Microsoft because I've lost complete faith in you that is such a good question it is um yeah I I think Microsoft has broken trust Ellis too many times to be trustworthy so i am gonna say that i don't really trust Microsoft for for me to invest in their their content offering for example or their music offering but but we're talking about this notion of a desktop operating system helping to sell a mobile operating system and I'm really thinking about this and I don't think there's any precedent for this where this has happened before and you know on one hand you could argue that yeah people are gonna get windows 8 they're gonna be like I got these tiles can I have a phone that's got these tiles and then they get the windows phone 8 and then you could argue that no one's going to care cuz the iphone 6 will be awesome and the galaxy s5 is gonna be awesome oh honey do you guys think that this is going to be a legitimate a force to sell windows phone 8 devices the fact that Windows 8 is kind of out of that same vein no I don't think that it's gonna originate from that from that kind of thinking where it's like oh wow this desktop thing is awesome I want it on my phone I think it's more the case that people are going to see the phones in the stores and say oh yes I recognize this so I'm inherently a little more comfortable with it then is the case now where they don't see that design language anywhere else it's like what's this weird thing and depending on the personality type then either they go up to it or much more often they're like a no this is unfamiliar to me and I'm frightened and then they go and touch a galaxy s3 and then wouldn't that person walk up to an iphone 6 or whatever and say oh you know I've absolutely no this interface my friends I've had I had the first iphone blah blah blah isn't the same effect yeah well yeah I think exactly so yeah familiarity were just reinforces itself and which is why changing iOS would be a giant risk that I don't think they're willing to take right yes good point yeah um we uh we're running a little tight on time guys I do want to get to to Android before we kind of sign out which won't take very long but did you have some parting thoughts on the on the Nokia stuff on Windows Phone stuff in general nope okay good i do i do yeah yeah hit it out that gorgeous here you add that Anton discovered oh wait yeah oh yeah I mean it's in the wall street journal by the way and oh oh thanks God you know it was just funny because everybody was like man this was found on the verge and I'm like yeah right we published in like an hour earlier yeah who was it um Tony that was Tony Tony notas no I was on Twitter it just like Joe from somebody focus yeah the editor-in-chief of goose moto is like wait a second come on guys very good job but pocketnow had a three hours earlier exactly exactly now the Virgin the virtual was nice enough to build the video on it was really good but man you know forget about who discovered it I mean it doesn't doesn't matter it doesn't matter what matters here is this every company uses deceptive marketing I mean Kellogg's uses glue instead of milk for to make their cereal cereal ads yeah yeah they use that is that an apple uses that I mean whenever they try to make the iphone 3g look fast those ads were terribly we're even banned in the UK um you know was good about whatever Apple did was the fact that they were smart enough they could not get caught at it you know meaning even though the UK band the ads they weren't stupid enough to film you know the the editor just slicing the video in part and you know since I I edit our videos and talking down I just find it incredibly amusing that this ad passed by everybody in the Nokia VP and CEO Department and nobody could notice that they were trying to show the world what the PureView camera was gonna be with a DSLR yeah in which was plainly visible in a van window reflection on the commercial listeners if you haven't seen as it is with like how are you how are you not going to bring optical civilization to a van and a DSLR right and and nokia actually made a press release I think yesterday where they said they're conducting kind of this like it company-wide ethics review and I was like okay listen whatever you guys this blew up in your face you don't have to like overcompensate but I didn't realize that they were doing that in response to not just this flap but also some of the pictures they purported to be from the from the Lumia 920 we're not actually from the Lumia 920 is that correct that was discovered by the verge they actually have photos of when the the the that portion of the video was being filmed and you can see that they were the photos were being taken by a bigger camp ah so you know my point with this and for all those for although I can imagine the YouTube comments right now they're going crazy oh they're just exploded all over the place into how dare they're hating my upgrade oh my god your fear is crazy okay the big to be fair right here I am going to buy the Lumia 920 even of the ads totally blew the project yes I feel that if Nokia did not have a finalized product they could use for the ads all they had to do was do the apple thing where Apple only tells you that it's a great camera but they don't really try to show you they don't try they don't really try to you know try to point out that they're filming this with a camera when they're not ready right all they had to do was say this is gonna be a great camera and I would have believed it and I would have bought it they did not need to lie and that's where that's where they should with up but where and and and finally did that we in that same vein with the PureView stuff do you think very briefly that they have diminished the PureView brand we as with this camera yeah yeah III agree I completely agree i think there was a big misstep to put the pure because i used up your values tony's PureView he wrote a great editorial on this you know in berlin I was like this is an amazing camera as we all know and when Nokia releases their windows phone 8 with a PureView camera I'm buying it and then they announced the 920 with its 8 megapixel shooter with you know some great stuff and everyone's kind of kicking us for judging this thing before we've used it and i get it and doubtless the pictures will be very nice they're not going to be what PureView gave us in the first product in the 808 and that is a big problem for the wait a sec wait a sec you guys are forgetting some things about the PureView michael you you are in a unique situation because you got to use one and you've also spent a lot of time with a guy I hope Tony doesn't listen to this pot is he's gonna kill me with a guy that thinks that the PureView 808 is the most amazing piece of technology to ever grace this this world and and you know what I've seen the pictures and they are damn good they're amazing it takes really good pictures um but the fact is that the PureView brand doesn't have the notoriety that we're assuming it to have for a lot of people in the US they're hearing the word PureView for a very long time and they have no idea that its associated with a 41-megapixel super camera phone and if PureView to them means that it takes above-average pictures which it looks like the 920 is capable of then that's a win for the PureView brand here in the United States maybe in Europe there will be people crying like Tony because this is not pure of you well that's a very good point that says that's a solid point P you is a brand that many people in the States will be hearing for the first time as a matter of fact agreed agreed yeah good point yeah it is a good point we'll have to see how that plays out I want to talk about that more in depth at a later time we're running Android ver and let's let's hand over android uh right can I say something about Andrew before he gets started I would love it if you did so a question what is the worst what what's what's bad what's the worst thing about the nexus 7 the screen yes okay so you know kindle announced this kindle fire HD recently and there's a couple of early reviews in let's say that this tablet which has the same screen resolution about the same size about the same specs in terms of raw processing power is has a far far superior screen to the Nexus 7 and it's the same price but you get double the storage here's what I think um I've kind of had to deal with this issue recently because i pre-ordered one to review on pocket now and then I'm thinking myself what am I gonna do after this should I sell it should I give it you know give it to my mother um I'm gonna root the sucker and put jelly bean on it and and make the nexus 7 the way it should have been in the beginning it's gonna have a beautiful screen apparently it's gonna be fast and it's not you know I I don't agree that the kindle fire HD should be saddled with Amazon's version of Android I mean I think it's great for mom and dad but it's not great for Brandon and I me and Michael um so I I suddenly think that if people out there are looking at the nexus 7 for a hundred ninety nine dollars with 8 gigabytes of storage they should look at the kindle fire HD 499 with 16 gigs of storage and you know plan on rooting it and putting stock jelly bean on it yeah yeah yeah i know the screen is bad I know the screen is bad everyone says the screen is better than nexus 7 and i believe it i know the reds are more like pinks and it's kind of like looking at a pastel drawing but it's but i use the thing all the time and you know I I feel like I maybe am the closest to the average consumer on on the team when it comes to displays I never notice and i watch stuff on that thing all the time and I'm surprised you say that cuz you tonight you've an ipad 3 Michael right yeah yeah but you know ever since I got the nexus 7 I never use it Wow yeah okay the only reason why i love the nexus 7 i'll be honest with you it's because I've got a sinner be working I've got a 64 gigabyte um orgy verizon ipad which cost a thousand dollars ooh so if i get if i get mugged with that thing i am going to cry but if i get mugged with the nexus 7 the cosby two hundred dollars it's not really gonna hurt and i love the convenience of the 7-inch tablet and listen by the way this is an amazon prime customers going to talk right now i like the kindle fire HD yes the only problem i have with it is that it's an amazon terminal and by terminal and this was actually taught to me by a customer by a reader in a comment is a terminal is just a blank screen that's nothing without its content and the problem with the kindle fires that if you're not an amazon customer you've got nothing yeah i supposed to the nexus 7 you can do whatever you want with it so unless you're willing to route that thing go with the nexus 7 that is my opinion exactly i completely agree yeah now I i I'm bored to tears by the kindle fire stuff I'm just that's the word I'm portlet tell you what guys when I when I route the kindle fire HD 7-inch i'm going to make an awesome video tutorial so that there's no excuse for anybody to suffer with a pastel screen please listen i will i will wait for that first my experience and this is the last thing I'll say about it i used a kindle fire on and off for a few months it was exciting i was like okay whatever this is cool at this price point when i use the nexus 7 and i saw what android could be at that form factor I never gave the kindle fire another thought and I don't want to again original kindle fire was terrible and yet as low as 1 see it was look what it looked like a play work it what it basically yeah anyway anyway anyway that's what let's move on that is not the big nose of the of the week in the Android world motorola dropped a razor bomb on us and that's pretty awesome i was i was about to say are those big news actually are they I mean like all right maybe they're not I want them to be big news so badly I loved the razor line i love that Motorola resurrected the razor brand with products that are actually you know notable because the razor the original droid razr was notable for its thinness the razr maxx obviously for its battery life and there wasn't a mid-tier razor category until now and that's the razr m which i just recently reviewed i'm a cut that video together so he's fully fully informed as to my feelings on the razr m and so are you listeners if you've read the review i think Motorola's got a really nice trio here and i think that for for a company that was acquired by google and which is still getting integrated it's it's kind of cool to see their slow quiet progress toward a really awesome stock Android experience on the software side and when you make that with hardware that is as good as the razors hardware is I think it's really exciting for Android as a whole and considering the disappointment that I had with Motorola earlier in the year with the atrix HD and then that the photon q which I liked but which you know just is not terribly remarkable at the razor line I think I think says good things about the future of Motorola with Android so I mean what do you what do you guys think mmm I just hate the fact that it's stuck on verizon I mean it but you know they'll bring up the international like they did with the original raiser in the mia yeah but I'm you know speaking at in the opinion of for example us customers i mean the atrix HD was like the variant of the razor coming to AT&T was like the first iteration i like to be honest with you one dat when we posted the news and the atrix was coming out I needed this I immediately called Brandon that was like I want to review that phone and the reason why I wanted to review that phone is because ever since before i started using HTC products all my phones were motorola I've been a motorola customer before that and after nokia and i just wanted a motorola smartphone because of the nano coating because of a Kevlar yeah it's a strong phone it's I love the design awesome hard every everything was great until I turn the thing on yeah yep my ad enough so okay the screen the screen Michael you can agree on the atrix HD the screen was beautiful i love the screen on the atrix HD yes i did love it but the problem is that the software is sluggish well the sun trouble yeah on the atrix on the atrix it is but on the foot on the razr m at least they corrected that on the photon they corrected it but on the razr m they corrected it and went beyond that and it's very very responsive and very reliable ok what I'm finished it's not even final software ok what I'm trying to say is this the problem with motorola's products is that it killed their brand with motoblur there was just so sluggish and stupid that even though the droid was popular ask any of the previous droid customers that they're using one right now everybody's using a galaxy s3 now what they told hey burrows and i think verizon is is the is the carrier that has sold more galaxy s3's than any other carrier in the united states and that's because even though the troy friend is great nobody's using any other motorola droid III feel that they just kill the branding that's my person working yet i feel i feel that their design is great and this is like this is like with the sony thing that i wrote recently man these guys had come out with this beautiful design great phones but then the software portion of the company doesn't know the hardware guys right the terrible heart is software that's my point yeah well I I think that was the case of Motorola I think there was a gap between the droid x and the droid x2 and then something else interesting but no with the razor family and and the new software especially especially as we saw in the M no I think Motorola is in a in a really great place and they're only going to go up I mean I've been I was prepared to be disappointed now twice in a row with Motorola roads like okay well after this bed that bad experience but no it's there I think they're they're on point um it's only gonna get better I I just want to say that the first company need to make a true edge-to-edge phone is going to become very very wealthy it's amazing how much buzz yeah the rumor caught on that you know motorola was gonna announce this edge to edge screen and and that's like a that's like a unicorn feature right something that we you know may never see it's gonna be so futuristic and you know I'm of the opinion that it won't be that great of a phone because you'll have so many miss presses it'll be ridiculous but the first company to make an edge-to-edge phone screen is going to just it they're gonna do something they're just gonna make a lot of money with it and you're right and the razr m is still like motorola had to figure out a way to make this mid-range offering like stand out so i think they kind of went with thee yeah it's sort of like an edge to edge screen look at our thin bezel oh and by the way by the way far for listeners um if you know it's hard with the razr m if you have not really held the phone or seen it i do recommend that you go to michael's review and look at his photography of the phone because the phone is a lot prettier than it looks yes it is it is really pretty i mean i think that motorola they screwed up with the screen making a qvga what is it qhd yeah they screwed up with the screen but then everything else of that phone looks gorgeous it looks beautiful yeah and it's it's great i actually brandon just asked me rose going to do with it I'm like I'm going to hold on to it as long as possible because it's it's so good on the hardware side and yeah no I agree i think the edge to edge thing was definitely a stretch i think but if motor oil is able to get snagged that much buzz with releasing a not really edge to edge screen just suggesting that maybe it's closed then yeah you're right the first company the table to actually do it is really gonna benefit for a very short time until the returns start happening because of all the false taps uh let's um let's move on to to our two-minute concluding bit gentlemen we're not gonna get to listener mail today unfortunately because we're running very long list of a very long newsweek I want to ask each of you starting with Brandon if you could choose only one device for your daily driver what would you select and we're talking about using it like for an extended period of time like six months at least would you buy one of the new Lumias one of the new droid razors or the iphone five and why oh my goodness well that's pretty easy and i'd say i'd say the iphone 5 because i know what to expect I know that over time the iPhone 5 is extraordinarily reliable it takes great pictures I'm not gonna talk about all the merits at the iphone 5 I choose the iphone 5 because its trustee and it's it's a great quality and you know I maybe in two months from now and actually to use a Lumia 920 I would change my answer but I can't because I haven't actually used it so definitely the iphone 5 you have an Uzi iphone 5 either but I like your answer that's good like I gotta know to expect though yeah you know what I mean like the Lumia 920 is very different just giving you a hard time yeah absolutely great uh we have one for the iphone 5 i'm sure hi mate just like Apple is gonna come out from left field and surprise everyone with his please uh the iphone 5 and well the only the only reason again is I'm really locked up in the ecosystem I've got three max to Apple TVs I've got a time capsule at home um it's just the next way to go for me I mean it's I I find that really annoying that that's the way the ecosystem works they want to lock you into it but you know going forward to it Brandon says and by the way I carry two phones is my daily driver so usually it's an android phone or Windows Phone and the iphone and the reason why the iphone is always with me is because it makes me not need to carry a camera where I go or it's a carry a music player where I go because I've got everything there that's that's probably it whenever somebody comes out with a smartphone that has and actually there is the galaxy s3 on the great camera but I don't have one but if I would have a galaxy s3 I would leave the iphone home but since I don't and obviously now everything's about the iphone 5 then yes the iphone 5s the next okay that's a that's a good answer and actually I'm glad you mentioned the galaxy s3 because I do carry gs3 is my daily driver since I busted my Nexus and it does serve as all that for me and it does really way the camera i love the camera my answer and i will keep mine very brief is the Nokia Lumia 920 is what I would select given those options I like carrying something different I know it's untested it's a risk it's a bold move I wish it were in cyan because I would make my answer even simpler but i would i would carry one of those just because i really enjoyed my time with Windows Phone 7 I think when this phone 8 corrects all the deficiencies that I complained about with seven or at least in theory and the optics considering the noise nokia is making about PureView and also the lessons they undoubtedly learned from the horrible 900 camera I think the I think it's reasonable to assume the optics are going to be really good again and is good go ahead you know speaking of cyan you know where you're gonna get mad about this but they'll most likely launch the cyan in like two hours after launch right no no for a carrier specific a carrier specific cyan let's just do it's just stupid the event was blue the event was blue everything the body is branding is blue yeah everything is blue so yes they're gonna launch a blue Lumia it's just gonna happen for a specific carrier it almost like the land that feel if it's an American carrier I will be pleased because that's what I want I want I want to cyan 920 um before we before we close it up Brandon do we have any closing thoughts from you sir not today Thanks risk it's alright group and and uh and Jaime no I think it was great sharing the floor with you guys yesterday with the iphone coverage that we did it was it was great and all the other coverage you guys did at IFA and everything that's happening it's been a crazy week I just hope that manufacturers and OEMs learned their lesson from here on um that you can't just stand in front of a stage and tell how great your product is if you're not gonna give people a launch date please change that or you can and you can for for a while but eventually people will tire of it just eventually Apple will come out with their iphone and kill you that's what's gonna happen um alright guys that that that wraps it up for its time I agree it was great sharing the floor but with with you guys yesterday as well as today it was a really it's great to get back to kind of a regular pocket not weekly after the field trip of last week we did miss Tony but we'll have them back next week unfortunately we are limited by the constraints of human biology listeners because I have had a half a gallon of coffee this morning and desperately desperately need to pee so that wraps it up for this episode of the park geun-hye weekly throw a tweet our way guys we're we're big into Twitter some of us are when he's here Brandon minimum is at Brendan minimum Tony when he's here is at Anton dena hai mei you are if I'm correct hi Mei underscore Rivera is that right that that's right cool I am at captain two phones you can follow pocketknives official twitter account at at pocket now tweets you can follow us on Facebook just search for pocket now do that on google+ as well if you use google plus which is nice and clean and white and cool also we are kind of in need of reviews on itunes guys if you want to leave a positive review on iTunes if you like our podcast please do if you don't ya if you really hate us to give us a nice make your negative review entertaining and no seriously if you have a topic question or suggestion for the podcast we're sorry we didn't get to listener mail this week but it's just been a crazy week so please send them in podcast at pocketnow.com is the address thank you very much for listening and we'll see you next week see ya bye