Gadgetory

HTC's are getting smaller and Lumias are getting larger that news plus a boatload of upcoming announcements in the hour ahead and one of us is podcasting from a battery-powered mobile device and can't stay connected very long so let's get right down to it this is episode 05 three of the pocket now weekly the once-a-week podcasts from pocket now where we discuss smartphones tablets and the state of mobile technology in 2013 I'm your host Michael Fisher editorial director at pocket now and today I'm joined by multi media manager shirtless hi may Rivera good morning there and hot powerless Honduras good morning and let's just leave it there before I jinx it again yeah it's a good idea and by senior editor Taylor new digs Martin good morning to with your new office got a new office new apartment new pretty much everything you everything and you're down the road from a PF changs but I don't know at all man I needed a new girlfriend now I was just gonna I was just gonna say like I don't want to talk too much about Taylor's awesome positioning in the in the in the world when Jaime is stuck literally podcasting with no shirt on from an iphone tethered to a laptop with no power did I get all that right Jaime yeah you got all that right all right hey sanding himself for the folder I want to know about this oh yeah sure I am though the literal way to say it is I'm blowing myself with a full now who that is not the literal way to say it Fanning Taylor had it right Fanning part if I pardon my lack of perfect English girl like you your lack of perfect English is is rare but hilarious I want to I want to hear something I need I need an international education because I was not aware until I don't know a couple months ago that the power outages are can something of a regular occurrence in Honduras it is it is it actually got better years ago with the previous government but the problem is here most companies like the phone company and the power company these are all government country companies and they are on purpose these are what keep the government from going broke right and so it's funny because my light bill for example is more expensive than my brother's like bill in Washington DC you believe that close to three hundred dollars of a light bill and then I get power outages almost every week wow wow well crazy we thought that Jaime was not going to be able to join us this morning and but he definitely came it came to the rescue of the pocket nah we CLE with it with a laptop with an iphone no I'm using the built-in ones in the iphones headset how does that sound yeah yeah and I mean you sound good it's it's great I feel like we always have that surprise like whether Joe is podcasting with his headphones or steven is podcasting with whatever he use is like it's everyone sounds really good so anyway lorenda random podcast for the potato yeah well I yet with the exception of Brenda what does Brenda news I had an idea he's gonna hate me he's got a snowball he's got a snowball just like I do does he really yeah you must have more right angles in that office than anywhere anyway I got a lot in this one man a lot of echo so now you're you're you're doing fine here let's let's get into it though cuz we're but we're all time constrained and we're starting a little later than usual today we have a couple announcements to get out of the way the first one is not an official one or it will be tomorrow but PocketNow weekly listeners you get a little early insight into this hey you know all those times when we talk about Instagram on the podcast well regardless of what your feelings on Instagram are that you should know that pocket now now has its own official Instagram account at Instagram now / pocket now pocketnow now and Taylor Martin having returned to Instagram for a little bit is providing some excitement to my day because he is just kind of posting all the time and I'm a post all the time anyway like I'm used to Jaime being on Instagram now but I feel like we three are the best ones to be on the show right now for the Instagram announcement cuz we're kind of the only ones who use it regularly right on the team back yeah branded only opened the account and all he's got what all he's got is one photo i think uh what what I'm ways personal account yeah oh yeah I don't know if I even follow Brandon I didn't even bother because I know he doesn't use it but we the pocket now account will be officially announced tomorrow it's not a big deal like it we're not going to do too much special with it but we're just gonna be posted a lot of photos from behind the scenes photos of review devices photos from review devices and me making stupid faces while I'm shooting review devices so what are you gonna what are you guys gonna attribute with it yeah what are you good what are you gonna do I haven't even talked to you about this you guys gonna use it for fun times I want America knows what here you're hi mera canos um maybe it's like a liver to what is that a pastry Oh Marikana it's a person walking piece of pasta oh okay all right you know I just I just love her I just love how you people in the United stay safe americano why don't just say the American back yeah like I'm gonna like asking for an American like kind of an American and a cup it's just an over here yeah this doesn't make sense now I heard some backstory on on the americano I don't know how true it is but I did hear a story saying that you know during World War Two we were in we were in France and we wanted coffee and they only had espresso and it was too strong so they put water in it oh good amerock an americano so I don't know how so so the translation of that is that an American coffee is a is a watered-down version of what could be awesome right basically yes yeah yeah you guys would hate tonkin donuts I want to talk let you guys know I mean what are you gonna be you're not gonna be taking running shoe photos on Instagram you surely you will be doing something else well at least not for the pocket now account and I mean if you want to see a lot of boring running photos of leaving yeah follow me on instagram I don't think any other boring i know there's no spinning what you're spinning ones are getting a little static but the the running shoes when they're good so somebody like what am I missing here he was like why are you always static when you're taking photos of yourself spinning and I'm like well I have to stop to be able to take the photo that's just the way it is but yeah why not a couple of bloopers on on parking out daily see how that looks oh that would be really cool yes cuz we can do video on Instagram no to so anyway it's gonna be fun that is the unofficial announcement follow us instagram.com slash pocket now also we've got us a forum I don't know if you missed the video but pocket now has its own little BBS now returning to our roots after I don't know what 13 years it is at forums pocketnow.com and when we launched it I was petrified because this was sort of my it wasn't my original idea I guess but I was really advocating heavily for it and I may I think you had tried to pitch it earlier and it didn't really land right well I wanted him back all the time I actually landed in pocket now through the forums that we used to have before with vbulletin I had bricked the pocket pc that I had back then and that's how I that's how I learned about pocket now and so I let's just say that I I was in charge of the forage for a while and years ago and then I was in charge of the redesign of the forms back then and then one day after one day led to the nut another Brandon comes up to me he's like I'm killing the forms and I'm like no you're not he's like yeah I am and it would we went back and forth for weeks on discussions of why I didn't want him to kill the forms and well he ended up killing them anyways well you know it's I guess it's good that we had some time apart from from them because we were able to start afresh with the new thing and there's a lot that there's we have a list like a mile long of changes we want to implement and the UI needs to be changed a lot of stuff needs to be fixed and improved but what's nice is the community we've attracted has been really really cool so far and I know we're still in the honeymoon phase and the trolls are going to come out of the woodwork on whatever but where there are some great great conversations happening over there and considering I was petrified that no one was going to show up like it was going to be one of those things where you throw a house party and nobody comes i I'm a blizzard and happen that happens to me every time oh I'll come to your house party I'll come to your office party throw an office-warming party anyway visit us at the forums please we're having awesome discussions over there including a thread which i think is my personal favorite entitled jaime rivera is a jerk face which i posted and it took like four days for jaime to actually visit the forums to find it and I was like oh good you're here finally thank you can't find that again I know it's in here somewhere is it off topic I don't know maybe Stephen shank finally became a moderator and and deleted it anyway we are due to get into some news here so well thank you for letting us get the announcements out of the way at the top of the show co-hosts and listeners thank you for your patience you guys why don't we talk a little bit about Windows Phone shall we we had a pop like right before the Lumia announcement last week it was the only time we could do it and then we had a live hangout during the official announcement but one thing led to another etc etc the Lumia 1020 is official yay and I think we had found what nine or ten editorials that day talking about the army attempt yeah I don't know how I even worked that day cuz i did a podcast in the morning a hangout during and then i wrote like three editorials that night yeah ya know what happy that it was a good day i'm really excited about this phone and this is this is really big coming from me it is indeed yes now i am curious as to as to what excites you about it i might share that with us i know it's the camera but you know in a broader sense okay so for me i'll give you an example ever since the Lumia 1020 was announced I'm using the Windows Phone 8x again I'm using le dos again yeah um you know I have nothing against windows phone I just I have I had struggled to find something of Windows Phone that made me want it more than any other phone and I think this is it i mean i love i love candid photography i do i it doesn't matter what I take photos of whether it's my shoe after I run or whatever but I've always wanted you know it's funny because I even carry the galaxy camera in my glove compartment because I always want to have something to take a cool photo from and and for me this this is like the solution it's like all right you're gonna have a lossless zoom really cool camera with you and it's going to have a you why that even though it's still not as mature as I would like for it to be I mean I started using that instance application that you recommend the face that yeah the Instagram stand in you man that is that is like the best third-party application can I've ever seen in my life that's why I wrote that that editorial with basically that headline that's like oh you did you did it the best third-party implementation you did that's right yeah so I guess a lot of my windows phone problems are solved right now first of all i have spotify now i have i have an alternative for instagram so I I guess I i started using the eight recently and I haven't felt the need to go back I'm actually enjoying my experience now and all I need now is the camera isn't that great yeah I love that it's so kind of yeah what's the what is the word I mean satisfying as an insufficient descriptor but it's so nice to be on a platform that for so long has gone without the necessary apps from my perspective you know like like you just said Spotify was absent for a long time an Instagram client was absent for a long time a youtube app was absent for a while and it's like it due to have them appear one by one it's it's funny it's like a kind of a gradual stream of presence to a to unwrap and then all of a sudden you know when the one day you wake up and you're like wow I don't really need to put down my Windows Phone and pick up an Android device to to go through my day and that's really cool and I agree it's only going to get more compelling once this camera drops but can we talk about the price really quickly guys well um I was just going to say that I wrote an editorial this morning that that's talking about the UI and everything and why I haven't really been able to use when to his phone for so long and now that basically what I'm a was saying the camera is one thing that's pulling me over but but also the application support is growing and what was the name of your piece this morning it was does does Windows Phone need to refresh to I'm sorry and it was supposed to be in the rundown I'm sorry to skip over you there oh well well it's already in there now yeah so that's also inserted that's an awesome question because it's an awesome headline and I know it's gonna get the comments are gonna be a flame war but like that's a really good question because we haven't besides smaller tiles we really haven't seen a revamp of the UI and yeah since since seven launched almost you know as we're seeing yeah and that's that's coming up on three years right and and and people at this point I fell for it or not updating ya know an input with Windows I think the counter-argument is because windows phone is an ish platform or it was and now it's picking up steam because it's a much smaller platform it's kind of eternally fresh because nobody knows about it right I mean that's the argument that i was using to to kind of be like well i guess they have bigger fish to fry than read the UI because it's still going to be new to millions of people right yeah well that's that's that's fair if you liked it from day one but I've kind of felt a little bored by it and just now now I will say that the change getting rid of the arrow the pointing arrow that kind of took up a whole row or column I guess mm-hmm getting rid of that was a good idea but but i think that there's more that can be done with even the tiles that are there that are there maybe put the arrow back but but don't have it take up an entire column but have a grid that's not what is this for by however many tall have a grid that's square and you can pan left and right and up and down in two dimensions and I mean there are just so many different things that could happen I think they're kind of never-ending potential for him and they could kind of have anything they want with it and yeah so these I was pretty um tame in the article and I didn't really call it out i mean i started the article with i like windows phone no really i do right because everybody every time I write an article people were like all your hater well that's stupid yeah that's no no wait that's that's a great title right don't you go stealing time is dator crown oh yeah oh yeah well that that's the culture and which we've talked about before of yes and particular ecosystem people say that about me when I write about I OS as well yeah and I don't hate iOS I don't hate windows no but there's this you're gonna call out areas that that that you see require improvement and that actually you make a good point in that piece as well because the 1020 announcement showed us nokia did not focus on the platform at all I mean I don't think Stephen Elop said the words windows phone 8 once the entire presentation yeah 0 not once and because there's not much to announce right because we're all waiting on the next update and and the next series of updates really so yeah no I do want to keep this narrow there because I don't want to broaden it up too much because we want to keep the feed going here but you I the price I mean 299 on contract forget the unlock pricing for a second stephen shank wrote a cool piece this morning where he titled it lumia 1020 pricing is either genius or self delusion and he talks about is it genius because it's doing this is the thing these argument goes this for four years the gold standard in high-end flagship smartphone pricing has been 199 and yeah you can go higher than that if you give added storage but 199 is pretty much the sweet spot and now we're seeing it for 299 the Lumia 1020 299 on contract with AT&T exclusively I mean that's concerning to to me because I'm gonna have to buy this thing and i'm buying it for full price i think i think it was spending out there 650 okay i'll give you a reason okay so yeah me for somebody who's walking into the store 299 for this one obviously the pitch is the camera but is it enough go ahead honey well the thing is it's not just any camera they're not just selling you anything i mean they're they're selling you something that is going to take each of its competitors years to figure out and i feel for example i'll give you an example windows phone has retailed for the past three years as the underdog cheap phone and I oh I never did like that I think it's a customer perspective I mean well the first generation iphone was launched it costs five hundred dollars after a two-year contract and it's sold like hotcakes if people get this perception that if something is too inexpensive it's cheap and I do understand the mentality of Microsoft and above all the partners and trying to keep windows phone affordable to be able to graft more customers but I wrote in a tutorial probably like a year or two ago about the fact that people are considering Windows Phone cheap and I feel that there is nothing there is no compelling reason to price windows phone any less than any flagship Android phone and they are yeah it's a perception issue it's a perception what about let's talk about that because the only flagship androids that are sitting at that price point on a contract I mean are like the Galaxy Note and that was a long time ago that's not even it's not even there there's there's nothing on AT&T right now that's 299 la except yeah 32 ke VI for Devon 32 gig is 299 right and then it is a capacity thing I mean yet okay so they're giving me 32 gigs on that lumia 1020 why not yeah same thing I think I don't think you can draw a direct comparison there because it's like the user cannot achieve you don't have an option right you internet you have to get the 32 gig of the 1020 you don't have to get a 32 gig iphone you can go cheaper if you want to the 10 tony is that 300 bucks or nothing yes but here's the problem i mean how can you really can you really consider lumia 1020 with 16 gigs usable absolutely not no I agree there's a good reason for that 32 to be there all I'm saying is if if you're going to launch at that at that price point you've got to be willing to to accept the fact that the sales people have to carry a higher burden they have to be able to really overcome objections when selling this thing and the carrier has to we're seeing moves that we're going to talk about in a second of carriers changing their their phone pricing policy so maybe that'll factor into it but it's still a three-hundred-dollar phone on a contract and I feel like the last time we were at this point was years ago where a smartphone could justifiably be priced very very high on a contract and you forget about the iphone for a second i'm thinking of like old windows mobile days you remember when those things used to be priced about 550 on a contract I know I remember I remember those days but but listen listen Michael I just for me for me a hundred dollars in this country is a lot it's a lot of money I mean it's uh I mean I would have to go to the most expensive restaurant in the city and take to take three people with me to be able to have a restaurant bill that tops 100 bucks and then you're living in a country where a hundred dollars is what you spend in dinner uh you know with the date every day whenever I go to Burger King it's always a hundred bucks yeah I'm sure to PF changs boom done I really mad I don't know I guess I guess for me a hundred dollars point yeah for me a hundred dollars is not a big deal when I'm getting something that no other phone can give me absolutely and yeah there's no question that that's what you're getting with this yeah yeah I have three points to make one the Lumia 520 lends credence to exactly what I'm I was saying about Windows Phone having this the stigma about being cheap because that is one of the low end models and it's if i'm not mistaken one of the most popular windows phones ever the Lumia 520 is the that's the one that's like 150 off contract right yeah but it it shows that Windows Phone at least if nothing else if it can't compete on a large scale with high-end devices it will appeal to smaller markets and people looking for a cheap punk but the price behind the 1020 I have a problem with it because on contract is 299 off contract its price relatively comparable to all the other flagship SATs 659 off contract which means that that you're signing a two-year agreement for just a little over or just a little under half off so you're getting like a forty five percent cut on the price of the phone for a two-year contract but you're still paying we'll circle back to this later i'm looking through the rundown correctly but you're still paying for that hardware in the contract and you're paying just as much as someone who gets a bigger discount on a phone for the same term for instance the galaxy s4 it's 200 on contract off contract it's around the same price i think is 614 about six hundred and forty dollars nine or something yeah i think it's six thirty nine ninety nine wrote about it the other day but you're getting a much bigger discount sixty percent off or something in there and there i'm doing really quick rough math but uh for the same term and you're not getting as much off so it's a worse deal if you think about it mathematically financially it's a terrible deal but in the same respect you're getting much more out of it because one you don't have to go buy another point and shoot camera just use your phone because it's that good the difference the discounted price difference is eighty dollars so the galaxy s4 you're getting four hundred forty dollars off the Lumia 1020 you're getting three hundred sixty dollars off so that's the that's the difference there yeah so that it's a pretty significant difference when you're talking same term you're paying the same amount back on your contract in your rate plan and you know it's just kind of crappy I mean that's the best way to put it you're not like basically what it amounts to is the carriers are going to make a lot AT&T is going to make a lot more money off the Lumia 1020 then they will on the galaxy s4 and maybe just maybe that'll give sales representatives a incentive to actually sell Windows Phone that that's that that's the real question that I've that is a very good point yeah it's a good point on the books but I remember there being like the relationship between sales reps at the retail level and the corporate office and the actual overall direction of the company was so disassociated when I worked for two American carriers and I I don't know I haven't seen any evidence that that you know disconnection has been repaired in any of my excursions to modern mobile retail stores sound of that matters if they're working commission to AT&T sales reps work commission yeah yeah they do then if they're gonna make more money if they're gonna make more money on a Lumia 1020 and it's the right fit for customer that's the that's the point though like I have never I've seldom seen a corporation that actually does this where it's like oh wow this device needs to be pushed really hard let's incentivize the sales reps yes it's logical yes it makes a lot of sense I don't see it happen very often okay I spy mobile did well yeah I don't know if I could talk about that but they definitely did right I'm we were actually living in a Cell area yeah well we didn't work on the sheet but what we were told to sell android phones as upgrades new lines we were told to sell it sell iphones as much as we could and and upgrades were non iPhones because you don't make much on people upgrading to an iphone but a new line you make more so it's kind of yeah i think we were told and we and we did we hit we had quotas and we would hit him regardless and in the case of the iphones or interruption together the iphone um there is at you know the reason why the iphone loses its price like so dramatically like a month before the new iphone gets launched is because they you know carrier signed contracts for specific amounts of iphones to sell so if they don't get rid of that stock they're gonna have to pay a penalty to Apple so that it's like it's convenient for carriers to sell that phone like hotcakes and I don't know how Apple was able to pull that negotiation off but it worked for them like wonders yeah but you know our list of the details of how they actually execute it you would they have to incentivize the sales people to move this thing because otherwise it's just going to be the 900 all over again the 920 all over again I wrote a piece about the carrier of exclusivity sucking because that's what we've talked about on the podcast over and over again about this the Easter Sunday ball drop and the the fact that the phones weren't being pushed in the retail stores even though they had premium positioning you know I don't know but I think the 1020 probably stands the best chance of actually developing a following among salespeople because it really is a spec monster like you said in your piece Jaime about nokia having finally nailed it yeah yeah I mean cuz because you tell anyone 41 megapixels on a camera and their jaw will drop it unless they are the biggest Luddite ever and all other arguments aside like even though you're using that stick even though you're you're you know putting aside the facts and the technical stuff in the pixel doubling and all that kind of stuff and just tell somebody who's yeah it's got a 41 megapixel cam would like that is an instant attention getter and that's what you're going to help move this thing my mom she was like no way and I told my photographer friend the one who took the pictures of me for the the pocket now inside her yeah I told her about it I told her about the 41-megapixel phone and she's like I hate smartphones I said why and she said because one it makes my job more difficult because people want to just use their own cameras instead of hiring someone and to I have a three-thousand-dollar camera and five thousand dollars worth of lenses and people are getting very comparable image quality out of a phone right it's not the same you don't get all the the effects that you can get from a lens or all the settings toggles that you can tweak on a DSLR but she said it doesn't matter because people don't see the difference and and in it and really exactly does her work yeah yes and so did I do that d value to her work with with photoshop touch well but but here's the thing so that's not to not tell like dog your friend cuz she takes wonderful wonderful photos but I'm never I don't understand that attitude I actually I kind of do when I was still planning long-term on on a different career path I was getting really pissed at reality TV because it was really really robbing a lot of opportunities for actors because there just wasn't fictitious programming being made anymore was all reality crap and so I but I was fighting the the trend and that's a difficult thing to do and that's exactly what's happening in photography now I'm completely agree with her Taylor I think that you can get amazing amazing results with expensive equipment and with the craft of photography I'm not in any way saying that you can reproduce a non-smartphone but I think she hit the nail on the head most people can't tell ya people don't have an eye for most people than around for composition or you know balance or anything like that and it depends it depends on on each specific scenario like for example in my case I have a t3 I I have a I have a the the Sony but I've been with the young guys are even the nex-5 and these are all great cameras but I can't take these cameras to downtown here I'm not going to take them with me everywhere I go I i I'm no and even if I wanted to they fit in my glove compartment and man i'm just looking for an opportunity to getting mugged here yeah tell me about that you're gonna get you're gonna drop for your camera I'm serious so for me I guess that's like part probably one of the biggest reasons why I love the iphone because I mean it's not even it's not even noticeable in my pocket and I could just take it out whenever I feel the need and I just use it and I you know the Lumia 1020 is probably not as thin or anything but i would i would rather deal with the compromise i mean it's it again this is an this is the person that people have considered to be an on windows phone guy fine I'll take your criticism but to be honest with you I feel that the price point is perfect I I studied business in college and I do understand what you're doing and I do applaud what they're doing because I have always felt that the ice points for windows phones have been all wrong I seriously have two points I'm a I'm one what have you not studied in college and two you're gonna have to get bigger pants to compensate for that camera hump yeah i use i usually use a holster oh god do you real good yeah yeah I didn't know that okay that's not very inconspicuous you're gonna get the yellow one the white one which is even worse I don't know I feel bottom line is I feel that the especially the unlocked price it's the same price of a 16 gig iphone unlocked I mean for me it's like oh now that is a compelling argument right there I'm like okay iphone 5s or Lumia 1020 this is the first time that I've ever been sitting on a discussion where I'm like oh wow which one am I gonna pick right I know it's when i'm picking can I i have to tell you guys that I am for the second year in a row gonna be in line at the AT&T store to buy a Lumia or maybe the microsoft store I don't know motorcycles are awesome aren't they I love them you've got motorcycles i've got chihuahuas take your pick i have air conditioning the for that for the second row i'm gonna be lunch at the AT&T store to buy a phone and the the color i'm not going to be a hundred percent on the color I'm getting the yellow one because I don't want the black of the white-winged cuz im bored with both those colors but man I I am so annoyed that that cyan is not going to be out and launched and I'm sure it's gonna be out two months after and I'm gonna be having this yellow phone that I sort of like but don't really like because it's yellow instead of blue you know I kept anything like that yellow color and I think it has to do with the way they're promoting it i just like the phone and yellow for some reason everything looks better in that black but if the red one comes out I can't think of anything more boring than a matte black phone but go ahead I'm sorry it just looks great well well the exterior of the phone was not made to entertain you man come on wait a bit hold on if I'm dropping 299 on contract and 649 without I'm gonna be entertained damn it which is why I'm getting a yellow fog well now that said if the red one comes out I really really really want the red I can't handle warm colors in my technology I really really can't stand it I blue is boring I know yellow as well as I were told you I don't like yellow I'm just kidding it's better than the other two Taylor how old are you man you're not even going through your midlife crisis why do you want to read come on baby red orange car i was gonna say your red phone is gonna clash with your orange car you gotta get a yellow phone for your orange car bro yeah shall we shall we move on to another lumia device or do we have any parting thoughts on the 1020 before next week if you're gonna make us talk about the Lumia 625 let's just consider talking about the time I don't want to talk about the 625 for too long I just wanted to mention it God we stepped over an article what do we really should Norton we were you know I do you want to make a point on that because Taylor Martin wrote a piece called and with it with a headline that doesn't quite match the tone of the piece and that sounds like a dig against you Taylor and it's not because the tone of the piece is much more hopeful but the headline is lumia 1020 won't say of nokia or Windows Phone and the foot master so I don't know what to think about that I was trying to sneakily get past it so that we could could maybe move the conversation forward but let's take a minute and I don't think it's gonna be a super successful device now granted I think it'll be a great device I think it might sell pretty well but it's not really going to do much initially for windows phone and I only say that because one the price point there are going to be a lot of people in the US who are turned away by that 319 or 299 price point yes it's it it gives the illusion of a really high quality phone but no it's not going to sell like hotcakes where a galaxy s4 at 200 will or an HTC One at 199 will you've got phones that are innocents better if you don't consider the image sensing they have better specifications and all these things that self representatives will ultimately compare and people are like oh this must be better because it's got four cores instead of two and yeah you get this basically this comes down to cells representatives and yes and how they're going to push the phone and nothing is going to change the way they push the phone except for one if they are compensated if they have an incentive to sell it and to getting past the stigma that better specifications or more cores higher clock speed more megapixels all these things make the phone better it's not just that it's a whole package and illuminate in 20 at least we haven't reviewed it yet obviously but the whole package seems to be there so this is something that's been mentioned on twitter a whole lot by a couple of people i follow and respect and the point has been made that maybe the 1020 is really just an 808 camera bolted onto a 920 because if you look at the thing from the front it looks like a 920 you ready yeah and because we're still waiting on advancements from the platform itself we so we actually don't have the full story yet we don't know what the advertising is going to be like it's what i wrote yesterday right and i imagine that the pitch is going to be pretty intense from the carrier and from microsoft and from nokia we don't know what the new software is going to look like when the various updates drop so we don't we're kind of judging a phone that's even more even further from being complete than we I don't know then we usually do I don't know you know why this thing on launch day it's going to be incomplete and it's going to come into its own as the software gets updated I'm sorry have I go ahead yet you know you know what's concerning for me is yeah I still remember when Steve Jobs was announcing the first iphone he's like what happens if we if we get this new genius idea down the road we can't just pull these phones back and add and add a buttom to them they're already shipped you know so i think that he makes a very compelling point about the fact that yes you know Taylor you do have a very end you know it's it's a very very similar point to the one I make in the other editorial that I write I feel that the problem with the problem here is not nokia anymore i mean i think that nokia is like really calling microsoft's bluff right now it's like okay you said that this was going to be the hottest flat format it's logical I mean think about it Windows 8 is like the best selling platform out there love it or hate it but it is so isn't it the smart thing that people want the phone that looks like their computer and still the bet hasn't really paid off and when how we have a problem now we have a problem where I feel that this phone is oriented more towards men in my particular case and I'm like yeah I do care about a phone that says that it has four course even if I don't need them I don't I don't really care about your excuses as to why that is I want you to get me the damn four chords and I want them now that's my perspective uh you know i guess i don't know i feel you do have a solid point it's not going to save the platform it's not going to save the company um but i think as i said as we you know as we talked in the Hangout when this phone was launched this is really good this phone is really gonna show windows phones true colors it's like this is really calling Microsoft to either push or no kids either ship out it's it's either one of these things now I do feel that the phone will sell and this is funny but you remember when the surface when the surface was launched I was like it's not going to sell and it didn't sell um there have been so many there have been so many cases where i'm like i don't know if it's the marketing buzz i don't know if it's the product itself i don't know if it's the offering and the timing within the market but there's this thing i'm like that thing is not gonna sell and you know eighty percent of the time that's what happens it doesn't sell and so in this particular case the Lumia 1020 may not be the best seller it may not be the best seller but I do feel that it's gonna change a lot of perspective towards Windows Phone and I feel that it's real I feel that it's really the seed that the platform needs and by the way let's let me take that back not the platform the company it's planning the seat from okiya now yet nokia has come a long way um one they announced a phone with a price point and a date that is something no one else can do a very awesome yeah Apple does it and Samsung can't do it HTC can't do it nobody seems to be able to do that except Google maybe they've done it with a few Nexus devices but but yes they announced the phone gave a price and a date and said here it is and it's ready in the same respect it feels rushed and that's kind of the same problem that I had with the Lumia 900 the 920 and it's what Michael just said they're not completely finished when they come out and that that's probably the biggest problem on that yet i don't i don't think that was necessarily the case with the 920 I think 920 was pretty I mean we yeah we had to wait forever for Microsoft to get a version of windows 8 that was ready for when it was fun it was ready for it but I think 920 was was pretty finished when it came out from a hardware perspective I mean aside from that camera lens problem on the front but you know well though that the 900 definitely was a 900 was appealing I really hated my 900 when I had it for a couple weeks but here's the thing the 1020 I've been trying to think of an analogy to do this and for all the disadvantages we're seeing and for all that is yet to be determined in the way of advertising and sales performance and all that stuff the 1020 is the first phone in a really long time I think that I can remember that recalls the era of of phones still being a novelty I remember the days of dumb phones when when camera phones themselves were new like the first camera phones right and it was like a year or two out and I had a camera phone and this was you know they were new but a lot of people had them but I had the Samsung a600 on sprint and it had like a reversing screen and a rotating camera like it was ridiculous well yeah it was I loved it and it was priced I think actually it's funny i think was priced about to 9999 on contract which is hilarious it was like a 0.3 megapixel camera and whatever but here's the thing I enjoyed telling people about it and people enjoyed hearing about it now this phone was ugly it was like I had a bolt through its neck it looked like a Frankenstein phone and it was not well known because it was priced so high nobody really knew about it and I don't think it sold very well but I loved mine and I loved telling people about it and I think that's what the 1020 is going to be I think the 1020 saddest generation is a 600 yeah exactly people aren't really going to know about it because whose let's be honest Nokia doesn't really market that well in in in the US that's true yeah and it won because they don't have the relationship they used to have they don't have the presence and two because they don't have the funds to you and remotely compete with my samsung on a marketing level so so it's going to be a word of mouth thing it's going to be a thing where you're going to see that phone with the with the ring on it I was watching a video completely unrelated video non mobile technology yesterday and some dude was in a crowd and taking a photo was a power plant being knocked down and some dude was in in the crowd taking photos with his phone and it looked like the the 1020 ring on the back and I was like I kept rewinding to that point the video mic oh is that it and I think people are going to do that because it's a very distinctive look no other phone looks like that when you're talking on it or taking pictures with it and that's something i think the word of mouth is gonna be powerful on this one yeah I would I was completely wrong about the galaxy note i remember when the galaxy note came out the first generation we were in Brussels we were out we were in Barcelona with Tony and I would see all these people from you know from these Asian companies all of them having a galaxy note and I'm like how can they carry that Gigantor phone I'm like that that goes from big too ridiculous I will never use that phone and now i use a galaxy note 2 so you know i feel i was wrong about the galaxy note it's sold it sell it so like hotcakes it's expensive and people want it um so i think that's a good point i'm am sorry it's because it you're absolutely right that gig note is a perfect example of what i was talking about yeah it's I mean wife anyway what benefit do I have from a phone aside from the fact that it's big so this time I have the opportunity to not only get a phone it's not really small it's not big but it's not small but I also get the added benefit of saving me cash on a camera because point you know it's come to the point where point and shoot cameras are gonna die next year they're just gonna die I mean right now if you know if you don't buy a mirrorless camera you can't really tell the difference between the the photos of my iphone 5 and the one of my sony cybershot you just can't tell the difference unless you you can shell the the 500 bucks you'll need for us mirrorless camera the point and shoot cameras are gonna die especially with this phone that's my perspective I feel that if people learn to find out if people were willing to buy the note 2 they were there gonna be willing to buy this phone well well the point and shoot here's a problem I just want to close out the note discussion the galaxy note was exclusive to AT&T and it did okay the galaxy note 2 did much better and it wasn't exclusive to 18 so we might prefer the very the variance of the 1022 land before we had a big move here no III feel it again didn't Stephen Elop say there was gonna be another Lumia event like quote unquote soon maybe I don't know yeah he did he hinted at something at the very end of the thing you you were listening and I was yeah yeah yeah I don't really hear again it this is I think tell you have a point this is not going to be the phone but it's gonna be the seed for this will be the future this will be the note to the note 2 and the 1020 successor will be the note 2 yeah and and the reason people pay for the note 2 they pay the extra money is because it offers something unique and that's something that the 1020 does and the successor will do and that's pure view that's nice well you know there's the thing that's speculation I like that okay here's the thing what does the note to give you that's actually better than anything else I mean the pen input on that phone is terrible what do you learn about it is what do you think what kind did you say on the note 2 how often do you use the S Pen well I use it pretty often yeah when I use the note 2 I use the S Pen quite often and all the time I yeah I don't well maybe one of the lucky eighty-five percent of people that actually don't and you're on a dime oh I have a fine experience with the S Pen on the note 2 I have a good area the S Pen on the note 80 fine okay I'll take it back the the input on that phone is not that bad it's just not perfect you know it wasn't writing an editorial right after this so it's good to have this conversation yeah but I do feel that the Nokia that Nokia is nailing a more ubiquitous feature with a camera yeah yeah you know we're gonna we're gonna see how it is i I've been thinking as we've been talking about this about my forthcoming trip to the ATT store and about what I'm gonna have to like sell to justify this this purchase but you know it's the first time in a long time I've actually been been amped enough to want to do that and I think it's going to capture the hearts of the squad I think it's going to do what the HTC One did for for HTC index past past quarter where it's like wow every technique in the world loves this thing it must be worth looking at say well tumors well it still didn't save HTC because they're still losing money well yeah and speaking of that actually Nokia's numbers came out this morning do we have a story up on this yet I don't know I just asked me that our front page yeah Nokia's financials came out and yes commenters as I'm waiting for this page loaded yes we know it's nakia in some parts of the world not here in America no okay Stephen Elop even says nokia now he's Canadian yeah yeah whatsapp Samsung teases octa no we don't have this story up why don't we have the story of now maybe it's not that great nokia financials results and reports from nokia financials nokia uh i'm glad i'm the only one looking this happen here i'll join you thanks thanks thanks bro well I'm it has an excuse hehe is he's got no power his other hand is Fanning him or blowing him siam for forbes has an interesting line of forbes has a good headline on this story that is nokia q2 2013 figures from nokia and blackberry reveal the third ecosystem winner and of course we know who that is its it is windows phones at the moment but it looks like you know windows phone powered lumia handsets where they're at 7.4 million yeah they're selling on lumia now then BlackBerry's selling all their blackberry lineup including the 7 device right so yeah if you in if you omit the blackberry 7 devices i think blackberry tenant said only did like to point something million in the last quarter so this is yeah BlackBerry's reported q2 number was 6.8 million and then if you take out the the other ones it's just 2.7 million for the bb10 stuff but just talking about Windows Phone I don't know how the numbers compare quarter over quarter or year over a year it looks like mobile phone sales are down for nokia of 5 million versus 53 million you yeah Wow well net sales were 233 million i guess that's pounds up eight percent sequentially or quarter to kind of sift through this really quickly adds a lot of one it's so Italy you know that the story will be will be up probably by the time the podcast lands I hope and you'll be able to check out the numbers there we are not gonna get too deep into Nokia's financials I just wanted to touch on it real quick and see you know hey the news is that they're still selling Lumia phones and that's cool and the Lumia 625 is going to join the ranks there this is rumored to be what the biggest nokia windows phone in history or the biggest windows care skin 7-inch display I mean that's the fact of Titan to him and the Titan let's just skip there's no point there and say it's an emerging market phone I you know I wish they would come out what I wish they wouldn't have kept the Asha and probably brought like a watered down version of Windows Phone to run on the Asha and left that as the low end phones and then kept the Lumia as the high-end smartphones because having high-end Lumias and low in Lumias is just confusing I hate that with the galaxy lineup yeah I also agree i think i would have preferred that the lumia brand be reserved for higher end devices but of course that's not the case at all yeah the 625 looks just interesting from the perspective of having the biggest screen of a lumia device at 4.7 inches but oh really care about isn't it yeah because I've reviewed the Samsung ETFs with its four point eight inch display and you know I don't know exactly you know 4.8 inches it fine I mean whatever windows phone doesn't need to be big but yeah emerging markets big deal as high my says let's let's go ahead and move past that that's not big news the sorry I was yawning you saw the final bit of news in the Windows Phone section is that halo Spartan assault is gonna arrive for the Windows Phone halo game now let me tell you guys I'm not a gamer I I like playing games on occasion but one of the only games I've played extensively basically is halo so this is part of the reason it's in the lineup but also seeing microsoft launched a version of this immensely popular game on windows phone is like this bomb for years of frustration I remember the first time I heard about Windows Phone in 2010 windows phone 7 I was like yes well you know we know it's going to be an awesome gaming platform because look at what Microsoft's doing with Xbox and four-year update they have absolutely failed to leverage that I mean yeah you can get your little xbox what do you call that what do you call your character your gaming care I don't know your avatar or whatever the hell can I can I get that on there and all that kind of crap but you you've not been able to get awesome titles on Windows Phone can i watered down you're not yet i'm still knows i'm still looking i'm still excited let me be happy about this for one more second and while i am i will note that i think Adam Lane last night went to the launch yeah II for this and yeah somebody have a video up we have a video up already yeah good so know what are you gonna do come come come and pee in my cereal what's up let me turn your expresso into an americano I'm a raccoon in the garbage can Rivera go ahead why is this a top okay so halo is a first-person shooter right yes really it's a 3d graphics game that was invented in the times of me playing in a fort 486 computer with Wolfenstein 3d oh yeah okay it's a flare I'm trying to understand why is it that I can play even Wolfenstein on you know in first-person shooter games why is the halo version of Windows Phone a top camera down game that reminds me of the games that I used to play before Wolfenstein wait like Grand Theft Auto to wait like is it is buddy i'm watching the trailer right now and the trailer has a lot of interesting scenery and blah okay so here's gameplay and yeah it is top-down isn't it well I imagine they did this to to cater to the the phone interface because first-person shooters are tough to do on a phone like I've definitely do him on the phone I've played wolf and sign on a phone and it sucks because you have to overlay the controls right on the action have you ever played nova 3 on on on a phone or play which is the other one modern combat they're awesome and what is the excuse me I mean why is it that we have modern combat already and we can't get halo to look like but okay fine it's not going to be just as exact as it is on the computer but then we've got death space which is not exactly the same thing that we see on the game console and it's a first person shooter you know I gotta say that's that's true i just watched that whole trailer and I i don't think i will enjoy learning how to do that top-down stuff um you know i'll say that was it like gun bros or whatever that was fun to play us top down so gun bros yeah oh you know what forget it i'm just playing dough pours from from now on that's all I'm doing love the game back in the day I'm sorry I'm just I'm really disappointed in Halo I was expecting like this bombshell amazing gaming experience coming from the Masters of halo the owners of halo Microsoft them as it turns out you haven't played it yet you just can it's not a veteran mad you like we don't know how good it is what yeah what I love video games I hate halo you know that's alright man that's fine halo all my friends are like you're an idiot I've played it I've played it I hate it I know that's a good I I will tell you is a sins creed I respect but I don't like playing just cuz I don't like the I don't like being in the first one I don't like wandering around you know a desert village it's not it's not what I'm into you should play the the latest i want to put it easy that's a pirate ship one no well that's coming today I'm talking about I'm talking about the Civil War I don't care about that either I want oh I want ships anyway hey let's talk about Android are we done with windows from can we move on yeah yeah yeah let's go yes we guess what got announced this morning we know this because of my sweet lead and HTC I love this because HTC hinted at this last night of their Twitter accounts like we have a little announcement tomorrow and it's you know little was in quotes and then donessa who hangs out with us and our live broadcast a lot was like I wonder what it is or something like that in HTC was like care to take a guess and then she was like I think she guessed like the phablet or something like she guessed something that wasn't little at all and I was like no donessa come on it's the it's the desire 200 and then I was completely wrong it's the one mini so everybody was wrong last night ah do not guess the one mini I don't know I just don't think about the one mini a lot you know why because next to the one it's me looks the same size to me I know yeah but it's on it I'm visible it's not a one it is not one I I am disappointed I mean how can it be that this phone looks exactly like a one it's all the sizes almost so similar I mean okay so I'm gonna quote I'm a quote I'm going to quote the hands-on video that I saw last night from the verge they did a good job it's just funny how black comes up to the guy this is the HTC more sales I don't know what representative in London and he's like this is the HTC One experience in a smaller package with no compromise and so he's like okay he's like okay so we don't have it aya and and the sales guy it's not even Vlad comes up and he's like okay it doesn't have an IR blaster the camera doesn't have optical livid civilization like the one this is only 16 gigabytes it does not have an NFC antenna but this is the HTC what experience with no that's never again 400 yet you do so just just shades and so you could just hear blad you can just hear black big like uh yeah except for everything you just said right now don't know right I think I believe my no compromises like the the you know it's aluminum it's still aluminum self no compromise I think I could just imagine blast face with his eyes popped out and be like right so they just so you know listeners the specs on this or 4.3 and 720p display which is pretty cool ppi is through 41 it's 122 grams which is super light the it is powered by a Snapdragon 400 dual-core obviously clock at one point 4 gigahertz with a gig of ram and like Taylor said 16 gigs the batteries 1800 milliamp hours android 42 silver and black Wow listen I I still think that's an ok spec load I think it's hilarious that they're bent billing this is no compromise that's very funny but this is as much a mini HTC One as the Gaga she is cs4 yes Jinxy ona pizza okay what first was what one question pizza man yeah um so the only reason why you're able to put up with that the 4 megapixel camera on the HTC One is because you've got optical image stabilization and therefore you have great low-light photography pretty much so how are you going to put up with a 4 megapixel camera without that do you think that this that it's gonna hurt the brand actually I do you know I think this phone will be swept under the rug faster than they can launch it you know here's the thing if if this thing were notably smaller then yeah like the original right like that would then then it would all make sense to me but it you if you look at the videos and no we don't have one so you know we'll get it we'll get it soon but when you look at the videos that other sites have done these phones look almost identical they look almost identical I mean you can't tell the difference I mean they put the HTC one right beside it and I was like which is which I I'm serious oh yeah for a second there I was like in today how in God's I mean what is the design process that leads to this it's like okay well we have whatever whatever we say the screen size was 4.3 we have a lot of 4.3 inch panels to you know that we have access to or we have we have this you know well yeah but we did not we did not sell the HTC first so we need to gather to those panels guys think of something Thank asunder and what can we do that's pretty much what happened it's fascinating yeah but what what HTC needs to do what would really just change the game for them is to make a smaller high-end device make something like the size of the desire to 100 may make something the size of the the iphone of that yeah make a 720p phone 4 inches put a Snapdragon 600 in it 2 gigs of ram 16 gigabytes and up to 64 decent sized battery I'm just saying make an HTC One the size of the iphone you can do that it's possible yeah the only problem is it yes you have less space inside the phone but the components aren't that much different well I you know I was going to advocate making one with a 4.3 inch screen and just slimming down the bezels to a ridiculous degree and i don't mean the side once I mean the top ones but then of course you lose boomsound and they're not going to do that and I don't think they should know they need to make their constrained by boom sound which is great it's a good thing to be constrained by because it's awesome is one my favorite feature it is man but this phone is like oh god you know as the guy kept talking I'm like okay why didn't you just snap the one of the old eight megapixel cameras from like the HTC One X or something on that phone and it would probably not be as bad as it's going to turn out to be I mean what's the point about having this phone that looks like another if it's not going to perform at all like the other yeah you know it this may be a case as we're talking about this now and I'm realizing we're just crapping all over this thing like this may be the case of getting one in the hand and realizing how different it is because the iphone 5 to me when I saw it pictured was just an iphone 4 and I was like I'm very disappointed and then I saw one and it was like oh wow this is actually way different yeah you know when I actually held it so I'm remember wait to hold it for anyone who says that we're in HTC's pocket for anyone who says that you know we are just shills for HTC I would like to point out as I already have and we have not had hands-on time with this device yet so boom yep eat it I want to add one thing um yeah I reviewed the first the HTC burst and it had pretty much identical specs to this except for I had a 5 megapixel camera instead of four and actually really liked the phone I mean it was too small for my taste but it was actually a decent phone and if you don't do a lot of gaming that phone is all you'll ever need really but in the same respect don't call it a one unless it's a one basically that's my only beef with this phone it's not a one following in the red in the footsteps of the s for a minute like you say you know yeah we will have to wait and see we'll have to see what happens when we get our hands on it let's talk about the LG optimus strikethrough g2 LG's finally dropped the optimist brand name the LG gggggg too so this is my problem right when your brand name and when your when your master brand is his two letters should you should you make your model numbers letters and numbers as well it's just confusing to me I actually liked the optimist brand name I thought it stood out do you think that the what do you think there was the source of this have they commented on that um they were actually sued by it was a Hasbro you know I know their owns the rights to transformers right but aspirin and a sous was sued by them to write the transformer prime or the transformer yeah yeah they tried to do something with it so when they bail Jesusita so as well really ya think so I feel I feel like I read that somewhere LG Optimus lawsuit help me Google now these are all product things anyway we can probably find that link if anybody finds it let me know anyway regardless of the reason for it it's now just the LG g2 that I will be going to New York City to check out presumably if that's indeed what they're announcing on the seventh which I think it is well maybe they didn't and I felt like they did but maybe they decided that then I mean I don't know yeah either way either way they need something more than just LG g2 because it sounds ridiculous it does LG also announced I didn't think about this this is from Anton's news post LG announced that its phablets will be renamed to simply view as the company appears to drop the outdoor from the list yeah let's not talk about the view yeah so let's move on the Nexus 7 i'm sorry i dropped the wrong link in there for you guys but the Nexus 7 has been leaked by someone I think this was brought to us by Android Central posted this and we were you posted their video which is underscored entirely by the android central theme so you can watch a mr. blurry blurry cam video of the supposed new Nexus 7 with some sweet techno dance beat behind it that's nice fun yeah I was like I was like when there's an excuse to use the full pocket now theme and a commercial like we did for the forum singers I love our theme so hard so I get up I'm not gonna say anything the top comment on that video is all dragging of yester you have like a hundred likes that top comment that that go read that on that video I want to is it on our centers on Android Central don't know I will tell you what potato did you film this with all right so anyway the video aside this is uh this looks to be maybe maybe the new Nexus 7 I you know we have a google event that's going to tool and that's good scheduled for next week that I'm sure will be reporting on what that's going to be on thee what day july twenty fourth so next next wednesday maybe these things are related we will have to see i know i'm not going to talk about the nexus 7 right now because I don't even know how to how to do a Segway you know how to do sex work I mean it could but you and you're already doing it you're already doing it you're doing it right now it's great I just got to say say the next thing we're talking about it's fun let's live on the air Taylor mart is a sweater segue well you know we shut up Taylor just do the Segway cat b15 let me see what I'm see what I might convince and it just says it see ya we happen it just says honest I don't get her after I'm trying to compete with you on this and I can't just I am 15 like I can't do this yeah the cat b15 so it is a fun story about I will say this how about this I grew up around around cat caterpillar bulldozers and everything so my dad would actually really like this exactly why I may need you to do the same way but you know maybe you know you didn't know that beer did I grew Brown bulldozers I have a pair tell you grow up in super Carolina I knew you'd grew up around bulldoze I have a pair of caterpillar shoes that I was gonna say if I wish I had cat boots cuz i would have warned him when I was throwing this thing on the river yesterday I do those are Brogan's they didn't write the cat b15 is a super rugged android phone we checked out in barcelona and there was divided there were divided directives from the top i'm going to share some pocket now insider info with you guys and with everyone there was a division of opinion above me as to whether or not we should secure this device and we did because i argued for it but i think it's going to be a because I don't think a lot of people care about it but oddly enough commenters were asking for this when I was doing the galaxy s4 active stuff like every I don't know 50th comment or some of those I was like what about the cat b15 like you know about the cat b15 who knows about this thing so we secured it and we've unboxed it and we've put it up against every single waterproof phone we have in the office and the Boston browsers that's a good video that's a good video thanks bro appreciate it I didn't get to watch it because the internet here slow it would have taken like three hours to buffer it's cool man I believe you that's fine but it's a fun video I throw it in the river a couple times it's great but mainly the reason I bring it up the reason it's in the rundown and we'll move on after this is if you have a question about it a topic for it we can't do a pocket now you review episode based on it because it just won't like nobody will come but things leave a comment in either the under the YouTube feed on the comments at pocketnow.com or in the forums at forums pocketnow.com because if there's something else I can do with this phone before sending it back to our friends at clove I would really really like to do that because it's it's a fun beastly phone to mess with and with that said do you guys want to touch on tablets real quick because Taylor and I have a little have a little we're tablet buddies now aren't we tapped as I've got way too many tablets right now yeah you have my old xperia z or not mine but pocket now sold Xperia tablet Z I do and you also though more interestingly have a the android tablet the nexus 10 yeah but have an android tablet with a home button on the wrong side of the display yes I do Taylor has to go to have 10 the Galaxy Tab 3 10 point 0 which won't saw 10.1 he is a worse Oh Dane for tablet ever yeah well before yoga's matched only by the galaxy tab 3 8 point oh yeah galaxy tab 3 10.1 galaxy God can you imagine to every time out how to reward that every time I tried a core galaxy tab 3 10.1 I end up saying galaxy tab 10.1 3 or galaxy tab 3 point you should check out my comparison to see the outtake when I try to say galaxy tab 3 8 point 0 vs galaxy note point out like it's lie it's frickin impossible and why did they just say Galaxy Note 8 why do we have to be point 0138 point I'm lioness is there good is there gonna be a 10.1 or a 10.2 or an 8.1 oh I do it they do it so that commenters can argue about whether dot or point is more appropriate in the comments that's why they do it it's a servicer I'm serious burn I I enjoyed it doing filming my comparison though of the tab 3 versus the no date because I did it in this kind of industrial park and I got this really cool a bunch of really cool footage and like nice color of like oxidized rusts running down a asphalt driveway and moss coming up and I guess I'm actually really nice shots but the whole time I'm filming these beautiful passes of these devices on concrete like just outside the frame and I mean literally just outside the frame there was a dead rat and it's ruled atrocious and I didn't discover it until the end of the day and I was like oh this is gross no one of the flies have been eating me alive so you're welcome everyone for undergoing that but I've been having a ball with location shooting recently Cambridge has some really fun place nice what phones outside yeah but I need to find some around my new area but um yeah the list let's agree to call him um galaxy tab 3 8 decimal zero and then galaxy tab 3 idea 10 decimal one completely we do this for now and let lately let's agree to segue to the next topic because these two tablets are not gonna sell sounds it well that's the thing i should segue to the next topic because this is something that is compelling to me but i do want to make the parting point that as I say in that comparison I just don't see a reason why listen I the last thing I want to do is come across as somebody who doesn't think money should be an object cuz I understand it's a big it's a big deal for a lot of people for me included but if the difference in price between the Galaxy Note 8 0 and the galaxy tab 3 8 point 0 is eighty dollars I mean you're already spending at least three hundred dollars right yeah yep you've got to assume I've got that a large portion of buyers who have that money who have that money are going to be able to spend the extra d bucks for a much what appears to me to be a much better product in the Galaxy Note II yeah I haven't done the comparison that I'm going to finish it today but I've said the exact same thing at the end of the script we can't figure out why the tab 3 10.1 exists when you have the tab to 10.1 and the galaxy nate galaxy note 10.1 because the galaxy note is or the samsung or the nexus 10 you can access a note 10.1 yeah the tint note 10.1 has much better specifications and it's about a hundred dollars more at retail value but the tab 3 10.1 has the exact same specifications as the tab to 10.1 saved for the intel atom processor and it's in anything worse is the fact that none of them are going to sell anyways because nobody likes Samsung tablets well the notes samsung temples are the most popular Android tablets ya know yeah so so so one of themselves 200,000 units said Sampson sales 300,000 let's move on time is done talking about android tablet that's okay this is your baby you know we're gonna have this we're gonna have the more of us to talk about next weekend away because we're gonna have a tab 10 review and we're gonna have a tab 3 8 review so you know it's just it's just the funniest thing I mean nobody I just I can't understand why Samsung has not figured it out I just all my friends come up to me and they're like why would I want to bias galaxy tab if I can buy an ipad that's whenever whenever people come up to me with that argument i'm like damn Sampson you're really having a hard time here aren't you you know it's funny I'm it like if Taylor is the segway crusher Jaime is the king of saying let's skip it and then talking about it for another five minutes yes all right listen here jerks I want to talk about my new favorite android phone can we do that please can we oh no guys here's the thing Samsung has released folding android phones before they have released clamshell android phones for China and they've been you know beset with model numbers like SCH v40 200x and it's like okay we're never gonna see this thing this is the first folding android phone I've seen with a with a galaxy brand name it's the samsung galaxy folder which was tipped than I can't what what is that a lame name is a folder galaxy folder couldn't come up with something a little better than calling the phone folder you know it's funny like I agree with you like I agree it's kind of a lame Brandon but I'm instantly defensive on behalf of this phone cuz I like it so much so I'm like shut up Taylor well sir listen I like it shut up I really want one of these I I don't think Samsung the America will I don't know wait I don't think we'll ever see this come to the States but if it does I really really want it I've Tony can if Anton can get ahold of this through sent with one of the samsung's European outlets I would pay him for the shipping that's how much I want this guy's listeners it's not it's not impressive it's just a clamshell phone it's got a you know numeric keypad and it's got what does it look like 23 points something inch displays we don't know what the size of the displays are it's really small I just okay I want a flip phone I've always wanted you know you remember those days when motorola you remember that MPX to tune in 202 20 yeah yeah yeah but ok but you remember that there was a 300 that was rumored that was actually a dual flip phone it had two hinges it never came to the market never made with yeah it would flip to the right and it would be a full keyboard but then you can flip it up and it would be like a numeric keypad yep and I want I was like I would I waited for that phone so long and Motorola never announced that it was it was go ahead I was gonna say it's like the it's like a smartphone version of the oh god alias the samsung alias all right with the keys yeah yes similar to that duel him setting yeah so so here's I do want a flip phone I just I would rather have a kyocera torque with two screens um then having an echo then then have a new method yeah sorry gecko then have a numeric keypad I just I love the concept I love the idea I would have just loved two displays on a flip design and a sous has done it with with a tablet recently I just I I do want it for me clamshell phones or the call quality products out there because the the microphone is directly below your mouth and I contrast to your face and the contours to your face in a satisfying way by snap shut yeah I love opening it i love pulling on my pocket and flipping it open listen for me for me the the days of the motorola startac now I we just pull it off we have a hole that I eat a case and flip it open with one finger that was a great thread about clamshell phones and extendable antennas coming on in the forums right now actually there's a whole sub forum for nostalgia and somebody posted a startac picture yesterday I think and it was great and then and then Taylor just just something would you send us a flip concept since you render yeah I wrote about that thing when i first started at phoneDog and I it stuck with me ever since like this is something I wish existed we're gonna distract we'll go ahead and drop this this photo in the in the post so that you listed can see what it is I'm gonna find a better picture because there are better pictures I guess my biggest concern with this with this concept Michael is that I guess the curity keyboard is dead isn't it wait a minute oh you mean the physical QWERTY keyboard yeah the physical curity keyboard is dead yeah pretty much if that's that then the numeric keypad was dead even before that so I I don't feel I do feel that there's a lot of waste of space I feel that the concept would be awesome with a dual screen phone and if they could figure out a way to actually have those two snap together in a way that this would turn into like a really long phone that would be awesome it would a form factor is something that I really would like more manufacturers to play with but I don't want to spoil a forthcoming editorial from adam dodd so i won't so you know i'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that we see the galaxy folder in some kind of wide release that we can get our hands on it and that i can shoot a video of me spending a day with a flip android phone again because yeah I guess I guess my biggest problem is it's gonna be it's gonna be an entry-level phone and that's gonna be sad yeah cuz it's wvga and it's not too impressive it Taylor yeah it's okay i was going to say that I wish Samsung had come up with another brand instead of galaxies for this and maybe called it like vanilla or something oh that's a good idea that's a good idea sure it's nothing I dropped another link in the chat yeah yes forever at it but they grabbed your photo you guys if you guys remember the code name for HTC what which was it touch flow in the past before it became sense the code name was vanilla yeah yeah what manila folder is not a phone that I'm ever gonna carry well I would never carry a galaxy folder so well there you go the day but this is why you and I just just can never be friends in real life it's a shame look at look at our galaxy folder oh wow look at the shall we talk very briefly because we don't have much time left Taylor Martin wrote a great piece about the changing status of upgrades on American carriers and it was called our t-mobile's jump and eighties next worth the extra cash and of course now we can add verizon's what is it edge or something to that yeah peezy edge yeah so the real question I have Taylor is already stated by your headline are they these are the new early upgrade programs for those carriers by the way if you don't you're not familiar with them that allow you to upgrade your phone more than once every two years in exchange for some some green every month so what's the story Taylor well first I would like to be referred to as Taylor mathematician Martin firm for the next 10 minutes no icing all you have is two and a half minutes on this segment so move on I did I spent so much time tony was like you're you just moved you've got to get everything in order so just don't spend a lot of time on on this today and I started crunching lost 30 seconds go ahead like it's like impossible not to spend time on this yeah I started crunching numbers and it just it took longer and longer and in it I looked at the word count and I'm like 1500 words I'm like okay I've got to cut some words out of this and really just figure out what I'm talking about and after i started crunching numbers like I originally thought both of these are terrible I would never ever ever even consider doing one of these or using one of these programs and and now that I'd crunched numbers and looked through them and figured everything out I actually would AT&T next absolutely not I would not recommend it to anyone why is that and the the reason behind it is you're still contracted right so t-mobile this this concept only really works if you're not on a contract because with AT&T every phone they sell is subsidized even if you buy a phone with no contract you're still paying for the subsidized price of the phone in your monthly bill so all of their services calling your minutes text messages and data are all marked up for the loss to cover the loss that they have in subsidized phone so they sell you a phone or twenty dollars we were talking about this earlier you get a phone sign it to your agreement for two hundred dollars and AT&T eats four hundred five hundred dollars each time somebody buys a phone right and they make that up over the next two years so you know that you know the funniest thing is for example if you want if you want an earlier an early upgrade on an iphone i think the penalty is 200 bucks yeah so once you start crunching these numbers you figure out that the price you're paying for hardware and your monthly bill could be anywhere from maybe ten dollars to thirty dollars nobody really knows how much it is yeah per month you're paying for this phone even if you don't use 18x so say you buy a galaxy s4 you're paying anywhere from 10 to maybe thirty dollars per month for the hardware and if you look at and by the end of your 24 month contract you've paid them way more than what the phone is actually worth but if you look at AT&T next if you look at AT&T next the galaxy s4 is 32 dollars per month to finance it so no down payment note no interest nothing is 32 dollars a month and that sounds good because after a year when you can cut your eligible for another upgrade you've only paid is it 340 some dollars I've got it in here somewhere and I'll say you're talking you're talking about t-mobile's jump them now your time i do i'm talking about a teensy next yeah yeah i'll get to jump in a minute so yeah whatever it is it doesn't matter what the number is your your ping 184 okay yeah 384 over the course of 12 months for the galaxy s4 but you're also not including how much you're paying in your bill and that's only yeah that's only 12 months and you're eligible for another upgrade and you can change phones but say you don't you can keep paying those installments for eight more months and you can call the phone yours after you do that you've actually paid almost nine hundred dollars for the galaxy s4 what doesn't so damn sense at all it doesn't make any sense because you're actually paying yeah you're paying more in every way you look at it you're getting double charged for that phone except you're doing it over yet that but but the the thinking goes that people are not going to plan their budget two years in advance because really you know nobody outside of very very smart people do that yeah so so they were like oh well I can if I can avoid paying as much at the store if I can just push that cost further into the future that's fine if I can spread it out and then then that's valuable but of course they're getting screwed yeah yep and with tmobile next it's a lot more t-mobile next t-mobile jump whoo yeah it with tmobile jump it's a totally different story because you're not contracted t-mobile doesn't do contracts anymore and what happens is the price of the phone is not included in the price of your service so the most you're going to pay t-mobile for one line is seventy dollars a month because that's unlimited everything so seventy dollars a month so that includes no price for hardware so you buy your phone either outright or you get it on an installment plan and those covers the exact mug yeah you put a down payment of maybe one hundred and fifty dollars down and you pay twenty dollars a month and the ends when you pay the phone off you don't keep paying and keep paying it it ends when the film is paid off and it's yours so that that's how t mobile works the only thing they've done with tmobile jump is at a ten dollar per month fee so you pay ten dollars a month and it covers insurance and allows you to upgrade every six months and that's so awesome yes you can upgrade twice per year and you pay an upfront costs and twenty dollars per month for the phone so you you're paying actually a total of thirty large per month bore so you'd be paying around a hundred dollars per month for your service the device and the ability to upgrade early which and that amounts to oh yeah it amounts to a hundred and twenty dollars per year to upgrade twice per year which is a great which is ideal yeah what is it's actually a very good deal you're not paying and you for anything plus you're getting an insurance bundled in with that as well exactly so they're real pretty much just financing the phone but it's really at a very low at a very low rate you know it's like if they're not really making money for the phone they're not they're not there they're making their their normal profit that they would make if they sold retail value yeah i know i'd retail yeah yeah they're making the same amount of money so say they buy the phone from sated by an iphone from apple for well there's no margin on my iphone SE dig by the galaxy s4 from samsung each unit is approximately like say five hundred and fifty dollars and they sell them for 650 or 630 yeah so they're making a few you know they're making about a hundred dollars on a phone so they're not making a much they're they're making all their money and services but that's awesome i mean that's really the way the business should be connect so the same concept from AT&T completely fails because they double charged you for everything basically right but but people are not going to be i mean i'm glad that you wrote this piece and I'm glad other people are writing similar pieces because maybe AT&T won't will tweak that and maybe VZ edge won't be as horrible a deal because people need to be informal but what I doubt it I doubt it too I did you mention VZ edge will be the exact same thing is next yeah I agree my principal take away from all this is that one Taylor I'm glad you did this piece because I never would have gotten through it I cannot handle that much numerical action and do I'm sad once again that that t-mobile and I are not a good fit for each other because that sounds great i think i would really enjoy jump and yeah i think i'm gonna sign up for yeah well it you know i wish good but uh you know 18 G's device election and you issued coverage just serve me better in my market so that's unfortunate but yeah I guess that's the unfortunate part of team over there services like well it depends on where you live though I mean it like with all its ok here in Charlotte yeah it depends on where you where you are that's that's great I thank you Taylor for informing me of yet something else I cannot take advantage of I'm going to be buying a phone for 650 bucks next week yeah yeah me too probably maybe yeah but yeah i will say i want to add one thing to that and that is that another part of this that i've included in that editorial is that you can sell your phones privately for you can actually turn a profit way to do it right right on ebay or something yeah yeah but you can also do it in a way that you come out even so you're not paying 120 dollars for jump so you buy every phone outright and you sell it and then you turn that money around and just keep buying phones perpetually and eventually you're gonna start losing money but yeah you know they're there are other ways to do it we have we generally wrap up the show on listener mail guys but we are wrapping up a pretty busy week here so i think we're just gonna call it early today because I'm has got to go and yeah Taylor you've gotta go and I've got to go i think i got a sandwich calling my name we gotta figure out how exactly i'm gonna get my hands on a lumia 1020 before anybody else how does that sandwich say he's like iron man oh yes on that note on that note listeners i have a story that i'm gonna be able to tell you in 2014 so you know get ready for that uh yeah anyway on edge of my seat for a year oh god well anyway gentlemen thank you thank you very much for joining me today on the weekly i do appreciate it and Jaime you're a trooper man for for sweating through a no power day on the podcast seriously thank you thank you and Taylor you know whatever I'm enjoying my executive office so you know I noticed you don't have a standing desk anymore we will talk about that maybe we can lead into the next show with you talking about a sitting desk and and thinking that nature because I'm back already hurts yeah mine does too I'm gonna go stand up walk around a little bit but before I do that I should wrap up this episode of the weekly find us on Twitter taylor is at casper tech hi mate is at hi mate underscore Rivera and as always you can find me at captain two phones you can also follow pocket now officially at pocket now on twitter as pocket now on facebook and google+ you can leave us a review on iTunes or xbox music if you're a nice person and if you have a topic question or suggestion for the podcast we just want to say hello we'll get your listener mail next week at podcast at pocketnow.com thanks for listening everyone will see you next week Fabio Google puss let's talk about my new hi mate at this point he only wants to move on because his norm is tired oh yeah yeah true and i'm trying i'm not i'm not as good as add myself with the left now you have to take that out thanks a lot