Gadgetory

from pocketnow.com this is PocketNow weekly hello and welcome to episode 005 of the pocket now weekly the once a week podcast from pocketnow.com where we discuss news and opinion from the world of mobile technology smartphones tablets phablets and everything in between I'm your host Michael Fisher contributing editor at pocket now Brandon minuman is off today so I'm joined by our managing editor Anton Dean Naja how are you sir I'm great excellent good afternoon to you guys I'm back to my normal schedule coffee at 11pm coffee at eleven at night I'm gonna print out on a t-shirt for you and this week we have a very special guest for today's podcast Joe Levi the Android guy Joe welcome to the show I'm glad to finally be here and not just be the sacrificial live tweeter you are the best live Twitter of any podcast I mean it's just so great at every time if for listeners who do not follow us on Twitter every time we do a podcast yo Levi is always there to listen to it the day it comes out and we get about what what is it about 50 or 60 tweets Joe within the span of about an hour and a half of Joe just picking out the most ridiculous out of context quotes from our show we'll see that's the best thing in context everything makes sense but out of context it's just whole layer out of context we're talking about honey on piles of excrement as I recall yeah best line ever before we get started and getting get into stuff here I just have a little state of the podcast update while we're talking about the show itself listeners we're still working on expanding the podcast to as many different distro channels as possible we've heard you on your requests for support for stitcher and tune in I've got requests submitted to both of those apps or companies or whatever you want to call them we're working on that but in the meantime we're still on the site and thanks to Joe actually we have a handy html5 player embedded in every post we are on YouTube as well on I tunes and zune and we announce new shows via twitter via facebook for you google plus so there's plenty of ways to grab the show while we continue to work out distribution yeah you have officially no reason not to listen exactly exactly so um there is google is no longer supporting their listen app I guess so that's weird but we're still on what's the story on that Tony we're still on there we still had the RSS feed iya it's live and if you have another podcast application a third party podcast application you can just subscribe to our RSS feed and you can listen just as with google play so it's not no biggie good all right well that's that's good because I saw that news story go up and it was like well crap we just we just got on there and we are finally there was a request by one or two users that we do time stamps which would be really really handy basically if you're not familiar we just you just click on a time stamp and you jump to a particular portion of the show so that I think in the Quinn the words of one commenter iOS fans don't have to listen to an hour's worth of Android news or something like that and it was like well come on it's uh we have fun doing Android news yeah that's why Joe's here today exactly it's not the easiest job we kind of have to work that out but we'll work out a way to make that happen that's a pretty simple thing to get done before we happen to the show proper any listeners who are not familiar with Joe himself he is there aren't many by the way we was specifically requested he is so far I think from the comments I've read the most requested presence on the podcast so I it's good to finally have him here he's our Android guy on the site in fact he hosts a recurring program on pocket now called the android guy weekly which is full of a ton of useful content I was just watching was today's episode Joe was it was it today or yesterday's episode the the early adopter curse oh they all run together I think that was today I don't think we said I can't tell the days apart anymore what day of the week is it today I don't know that was it that was today it's garbage day so it must be Tuesday well it's full it's a great show if you guys have not have not watched it you should definitely tune in to the android guy weekly i use it as a starting point I've used it a couple times for the NFC articles and I enjoyed the early adopter curse today because it spoke to a matter close to my heart but we're honored to have you Joe as far as our first guest on the podcast briefly if you wouldn't mind just tell us how you became not Pocket now as an android guy but maybe that too but how did you become an android guy how did you become a fanboy for lack of a better term of the platform well a long story made very very short I was a Newton guy in the beginning and went from there when Steve Jobs cut them off over to windows mobile more because the company was supporting that and I was windows mobile for many many iterations I even had the president of capacity o corporation send flowers to my wife he went well she was pregnant and went downtown Salt Lake to pick up a cassiopeia when they screwed up an order really fun story there we'll cover that a different time but after that I could see the writing on the wall when iOS came out in the iphone was ridiculously popular and really more intuitive than anything anyone had ever seen before and i was still a little bit upset with steve jobs so i decided to jump over to android started out with the t-mobile g1 and had it for about 10 minutes and flashed Jesus Freak on it that was back for cyanogenmod and I've just been there ever since wow wow what at what point in the in its development was the g1 when you picked it up like how late to the game did you come in I was about six to eight months in after the initial release of the the g1 which might sound like a lot in the the whole scheme of things you know technology moves really fast but remember that the g1 was not released into markets where t-mobile didn't have 3g established so it was very very difficult to come by eventually they changed that policy so I was able to pick one up at my local Walmart cost me a hundred dollars on a conf way way back in the day yeah I actually went from a non contract to a contract just so I could put it into the budget nice since have gone back to non-contract I understand I did that with the with the with the priests oh I get it I'm with the what did you have edge only in your in your market at that time edge when I was lucky uh GPRS oh GPRS was my standby Wow well well there you have it listeners Joe Levi's Android roots go all the way back to the g one that's awesome I my first android device was an EVO the original evo so he was years into it before I before I finally succumbed to the Android impulse it's great to talk to somebody who's been there from the start from the very beginning yes speaking of software Tony I understand you got a rather significant firmware upgrade recently okay the automotive variety you want to talk about that a little yeah i just want to mention it most probably many of our audience guys listening and girls to know about this money have a car and especially a car which is made two or three years ago a recent car they are operated by a computer and that computer behaves based on a software which is on a chip and lo and behold there are software updates and there are new firmwares so the interesting thing is that we only about this but i never thought of it in in the context in which i'm flashing my phones but i can flash my car so I was at the service today and I I was told that there is a new software update for my Chevy and I said okay what does it do any change lock bug bug fixes improvements performance and they said yeah we might give it a try and they flashed my computer and I have some nice performance improvement so I'm yet to find bugs but I'm gonna report them surely to Chevrolet that's really really amazing do you know what um I mean I know this is probably standard but it's just so strange to think about you know I got it I got an update for my for my car like i got a software update for my wheels what are you what is it running tony is it running like qnx or is I have absolutely no idea but it's most probably running some proprietary software which is belonging to either the chip maker or the car maker here in Europe and I'm sure in the u.s. you there are lots of tuning shops which offer custom firmware some chips can be flashed some chips need to be replaced by a new chip with a new software so I think these are most probably proprietary software I'll be interesting to hear i mean i remember rim making such a big deal about how Kennex was and was in everything it was in you know nuclear power plants and in in automobiles and so that if only my chevy had clockworkmod and of the dodge for ryan of course well now I've had a firmware upgrade on my car too um not to steal Tony's thunder but mine mine's a Toyota Prius it's fun oh you have the prius so so my my firmware update was to keep me from accelerating uncontrollably and smashing into things and so far it's worked it has ever had that problem so good yeah listen is right about 20 minutes before we started recording Joe asked us to to send him our our positive thoughts so that he did not run crash into anything on the drive to his recording site and I was not aware Joe that that was a because your your car may be running out of date software no I'm updated i'm good to go good you know Michael if I were you I'd be afraid you know I'm driving to Berlin and I'm picking you up at the airport so you're gonna experience firsthand this new software I am mildly terrified and also um i would like to and now i feel like after that berlin trip if i survive it I should go page 0 visit and see what it's like to ride in his prius and maybe like you know compare and contrast the experiences and then make a special edition podcast right ya know i think that's that's guaranteed brandon want to do a video we should do that um alright boys let's jump into this here we got a we got the android guy here let's not it's not waste as time let's let's jump right in android action here with the one of the more interesting stories or one of the more boring stories of one of the more boring overall tales i think that is happening right now now i am in minority I said this on Twitter before and maybe it was a stupid thing to say but I'm kind of bored to death by Apple v Samsung largely because of stories like the one that came out earlier today where it's like apples accusing Samsung of copying icon designs or this was yesterday rather and I mean it's just you know the story is great it's stephen chang credit but it's it's just you know the the testimony or the core talk you mr. just page after page of of screenshots of icons and comparing and deciding which ones are more or less similar to their Apple counterparts and is this really copying and you know I know this trial is really really important but it's stuff like this that really just kind of shuts me down and I wonder if I wonder how much of an impact the patent systems of various countries have on innovation guys what are you what's your thoughts on this I mean house are you are you fascinated are you bored are you somewhere in between interesting i'm gonna jump in because i'm gonna finish quickly i'm gonna only refer to the legal side of things what I don't understand is really the following thing how on earth can you represent a phone if not with a phone or email if not put an envelope or contact if not with a person or a silhouette so i think i'm not entirely at home with the US patent system but i think that some parents are granted very easily that aside apple is capitalizing on this and we all know that apple has declared war on samsung just like the thermonuclear war on android and they're gonna do everything in their power to lay down speed bumps in samsung's way now samsung on the other hand is no longer defending themselves samsung is attacking back and they've taken it to the second level i think this thing will not stop at least not in the near future but i think this is bad for apple not that bad for samsung because Samsung is always the is regarded as the underdog as far as these lawsuits are concerned Apple has more to lose but if they win they have more to win on the short term so it's a pretty tricky situation Joe what about you I have to agree uh when you're looking at a notepad whether that's a legal pad sitting on your desk or whether that's an icon sitting on your phone or your tablet it looks pretty much the same it's representative of something that does the same thing so i really wonder why Apple didn't pull in the the legal pad manufacturers for violating their trademark because I've got that and it's on my death right now and I'm scribbling notes on it and it's ridiculous I bees are coming soon yeah what's up there ah this is going on the internet isn't it yeah whatever but there comes a point where you just have to say we've we've gone to every extent that we can to make these little pictures of things as self-explanatory as international as possible and really the icon speaks to what it is in the real world and the real world was around long before the icon the judge should look at this and just throw it out one other side note Tony you mentioned how can you represent a phone without a picture of a phone yeah stop for just a minute let's think how old are most people who use cell phones these days mmm have they even seen a hat and set like that do they even know what that is or are they used to these little bricks that we carry around in our pockets good point that is a really good point i read a story or a red an editorial maybe it was from us and about that very thing somewhat recently and it's like yeah that that telephone receiver that's on every dialer button almost ever is it's got to be just this abstract construct just to a lot of kids these days right I mean it exactly yeah I mean they've never held this like bakelite you know for pound receiver with a coiled cord in their hands as a matter of fact I would like to hear i would just like to say it right now because we get some listener mail but i want to get some more if you are you know if you're a young listener please write in and let us know if you've like never encountered an analog phone receiver and at some point your life wondered what that was on the phone button and somebody had to tell you let us know I pulls dialing before cause I'm like oh yes the rotary Dyke rotary dials that's what the day isn't there an apt wasn't there an app on some platform that let you do that like it was a real dial yes what it was iOS of course it was iOS quick question guys you know a few words it had one of those Stone Age phones in front of you and it was ringing what hand would you use to pick it up left or right right so then what and why is every icon represented as I was to pick it up with my left hand iOS Android and Windows Phone why just can't they invert it the mirror it you see I'm picking the phone up with my left hand family I have my right hand free to take notes ah very crafty Levi nice I I don't know yeah well you just make sure you take your notes on a on a pad that doesn't look anything like the 12 that are on my screen right now what let's yeah let's let's move on there's more samsung stuff to talk about this um we have a quad-core galaxy note 10.1 tablet coming out from Samsung this is a pretty new story we're kind of prepping for maybe what might be the launch event later this month not really sure maybe on August fifteenth way Joe please take it away I'm so yeah I'm so nexus 7 um I'm still kind of in the honeymoon phase with that tablet that i'm just so bored by this now don't get me wrong please i think this could be a really cool device it's just that i can't find a way to phrase it right now that'll be anything but a spec list so tell it what do you think about this gym well first and foremost it's getting headlines because its quad-core and what we learned from the the galaxy s3 is quad core really doesn't matter in practical use and the main game is sure exactly what really really helps is more RAM now this tablet is reportedly going to have two gig of ram so that should be good it'll be interesting to see if we get any kind of a performance increase by having quad core with the extra ram or if it's just essentially the same thing do we know what kind of processor is going to be in that is it probably an excellent access right yeah oh yeah Samsung combined that's the galaxy s3 it doesn't it's not called out in the in the story but yeah I would agree with Tony that's probably gonna be an X notes in there you know guys what's lame and I'm gonna be the black sheep again it's lame regardless if Samsung is the wicked or somebody else but in this current case we're looking at Samsung it is lame to announce and to show off the samsung galaxy note 10.1 in February at the mwc and in August to still not have it on the shelves but you have announcements regarding specifications which are changing now that is lame that is lame I agree what do you think is the source of that delay do you think it was a tactical maneuver or no I think they jumped in they were quick because there were absolutely no tablets from Samsung at mwc we had the galaxy tab 10.1 last year but of course there was the 7.7 which is lame too and I think they kind of jumped the gun a little bit they wanted to be out there together with the Acer and the sous and the the the PadFone and they wanted to show something off that Samsung is continuing to do tablets and they bring this S Pen to the tablet because it's a bigger screen it's normal for you to use it on a bigger screen than on your phablet but I think they realize that by the time this will get out it will become stale specs wise so they said let's just cancel this or postpone it put in some more specifications raw horsepower and the late little bit which is good but come on guys six months that's too much yeah and actually you bring up an interesting point from a from a branding perspective that's kind of one of the only things I I find interesting about this device so far because I don't know a lot about it because none of us do but I find it I head of hands-on with it you did I had a hands-on in February in horses around barcelona that's right yeah but it was with the initial specification right yes that's what I mean i canna new device we don't have yeah then you won no no but i think the branding is the most interesting part about it because here's what Samsung has come out been like here's the Galaxy Note boom this is a phablet that's a whole new category blah and then the note like for better or worse picks up a whole lot of press and people know what the galaxy note is because Samsung has been just pushing it down people's throats with advertising and so that Galaxy Note brand is pretty strong and then they just kind of append it to a tablet they were probably going to build anyway they're like here's the galaxy note 10.1 and so yes their brand message sort of goes out the window where's like is it a phone is it a tablet its galaxy note whereas this one is like no it's a tablet and it's also can't like see note but I find that interesting like I and and you know what it works on me too because I sit here and I kind of soul search for a second and I'm like yeah I'm more likely to buy this device because it has the galaxy note branding not because I like stylus is not because I really care about the initial note too much but because the galaxy note branding I find superior to the Galaxy Tab branding just in my head it's just it you know because the Galaxy Tabs have never been terribly impressive so I don't know does that am I alone in that am i weird mm-hmm Thanks you're absolutely weird thank you you know I'm reminded I'm reminded of the early days of Apple and going back to my Newton roots again Apple came out with their their laptop computer and they called it a notebook because it was analogous to a notebook that you towed around with you when when Newton came out it was a message pad it was essentially a flip notepad so they had some very strong branding around the sizes of screens Saturday Night Live picked up on and they did a chris farley skit with the Apple post it which was Newton powered and you wrote on it and converted your handwriting to text and when you were done with that note you just threw it away but I think that I you know you're right with the the concept that you need to brand something based on the size if you're gonna go that route and then stick with it and come up with another brand for something in a different size some of us out here are confused it is 10.1 the size of the screen or is that the version of the device yes man that means they're like seven ahead of the the ipad right well then it must be better 7.1 ahead well it'll be interesting to see I think that that if if August fifteenth is indeed the the launch or the excuse me the announcement date on that or the official unveiling or whatever you want to call it well there's some kind of event happening in New York City on that date and as it looks right now it looks like we're going to be there to cover it and it might be me I don't know by the way yeah samsung if everything goes according to plan and according to our speculation we'll have two notes on display in Berlin the note 2 and the note 10.1 how about that well that'll be a nice little duo will have will have samsung TouchWiz nature UX on maybe question sized screens question will these be the only two new devices at Samsung or will they be something else maybe a windows phone maybe a windows phone 8 and early announcement something a sneak peek that would be awesome I would love that because we heard we talked about that last week writer with a the rumored Samsung windows phone devices mmm yeah that would be I don't know selfishly I'm hoping for that because I would be much more interested not that I'm not interested in the note 2 i'm interested in the note 2 as well but i'd like to see some more from samsung but um we uh I want to keep moving here because Android is uh still has a little bit of news here i have this sad thing HTC hmm not doing well financially um I don't know much about finances we've established this on previous podcasts but HTC has really taken a beating in the in the in the marketplace as a result of some lower than projected earnings i think is the core of that and we had our own Jaime Rivera posted a really interesting editorial called HTC is sinking they need more than just innovation any kind of drew some parallels there be two between HTC and nokia and palm to a degree so I'm interested to see like I read this editorial about a half hour ago and I'm fascinated by it because I don't perceive HTC as being in in quite as hot water as some of the other beleaguered companies in the landscape but what do you guys think do you think HTC is is in serious trouble or is this just something that will blow over once as the one and it's follow-on products take get traction it's a stage I think it's a stage and it will pass and yeah we don't know about numbers but I can tell you this much stocks usually when it comes to huge companies like these tend to react to even the smallest rumor the smallest number which is officially published by the company and they are very sensitive now if you look at HTC's lineup for this year the one line up the S the V and the other one slip in my mind yeah I can never remember the other one either yeah it's it's a good lineup the phones are good the problem HTC has is called Samsung and this is their main problem because Samsung has managed not only to become the number one Android OEM but it's doing it with the great success the number one handset vendor in the world let alone Android yeah I agree with that I what I can go into a discussion about Samsung vs apple because Apple only has like three or four devices at any time on the market and Samsung has a truckload so let's not get into that but comparing Samsung to HTC they have managed to turn the situation in their favor and while the HTC One X was their flagship in Barcelona but in the backstage people were were just talking why Samsung missing mwc where is the galaxy s3 I mean they built up that anticipation and yeah hardcore fans bought the HTC One X which is a good phone except for its camera and I'm gonna say this until I dry i like that camera but i think that HTC is now in a lowest position and they will start climbing real fast because i'm expecting some follow-ups to the 1x at IFA with faster processor still Tegra free software updates jellybean if possible and they will get back on track i was hoping to see some more rumors on HTC's presents coming up at IFA but i only saw because kind of this one iteration the V in the news feed notice like well that that's really boring I hope we see we still have two weeks I know yeah that's true I just want more leaks but Joe what do you what do you think do you think the problem is also Samsung HTC has a really really firm foundation but they didn't come from the same the same fold that Samsung came from if you look back in in HTC's history even back before Android you had HTC making devices for for various OEMs which was kind of unusual you had stuff that was coming out from compaq and from HP that were designed and built by HTC true they had their own brand yeah exactly at XDA from XDA developers the the XDA is an HTC device the g one made by HTC the nexus one made by HTC the trio 8800 right as well yeah they make fabulous fabulous hardware where I think they're going through some growing pains right now is they've got to be innovative and keep that quality hardware and it's the innovation that is new to them we've seen some some huge leaps but Samsung was able to ramp up and come out with stuff a little bit faster than them that's because Samsung has been in everything they've been in consumer electronics across the board and can apply that that experience to their smartphones that are tablets to their in-betweens all along so don't dump count HTC out just yet they're not doing as well as I personally would like them to be I used to be an HTC guy exclusively I skipped the Nexus S because it wasn't HTC but you just wait give them some time there they're gonna come back and they're gonna they're gonna wow you and an important factor we have here and I'm gonna let now Brandon speak through my voice he's always about marketing and he's right Samsung burned a truckload of cash in marketing campaigns we let it be the note the s3 or any other product worldwide I think if HTC would be more attentive and paying attention to marketing when is the last time you guys saw an HTC One X ad and compare that to the last time you've seen on the galaxy s3 yet I've ever seen an HTC One 1x add except for on TV I've seen no print stuff yeah so I think marketing is also required for for your products to get a bush to get a recognition on the market and it's that competitive advantage which samsung currently has over HTC yeah just look at their tag line it says quietly innovative and they're right out there angel in it finally brilliant yeah I I agree no it's it is founded in marketing and I really hope it's interesting that it's interesting that HTC's big problem is Samsung because Samsung really did come in and just suck all the air out of the room after the 1x is after the 1-series landed but most notably the 1x and I'm with you Joe I mean emotionally speaking I want to make it clear that I've give all hardware of a fair shake and i'm pretty pretty good at being fair but emotionally I had a lot invested in HTC after my time with the 1x i did not i love that device a lot more than i thought i was going to and so when samsung dropped the galaxy has 3 News and I kind of saw the hardware wasn't as wasn't to my tastes quite as much I was like well this this isn't going to be too too big a deal and then I really got to thinking about I'm like no you're an idiot assassin it's gonna come a carpet bomb this place and they did and so I I agree with I agree with you guys it'll be really nice to see where HTC goes from here and I hope it is I hope they continue the trend of innovation they started we at the beginning of this year with the 1 series and I know they've learned their lesson and from 2011 making just 12 different iterations of the same boring concept over and over again I know they've said as much that they're not believe it or not believe it or not aside from the users needing HTC to succeed Samsung is also needing HTC to succeed because they are driving competition and nobody wants samsung or HTC for that matter to become sloppy so I think they need to be one step ahead with each other depending on what time of the year you look at the market yeah they'll leap frog absolutely yeah um moving ahead i I just published a piece yesterday called a week without a keyboard oh those emails yeah Tony and Joe and everybody on the team actually got to see the emails that resulted from this experiment of mine Oh for anybody who didn't read the the editorial you should do so i would i would appreciate it it's a longer one than usual but there's there's some funny screenshots of me cursing at the phone in there and basically what happened was I Brandon posed this idea which was a really cool idea it was like we was just very simple like what if all you had for input was voice input was speech dictation it was voice to text and you couldn't use your keyboard at all and I kind of instantly latched onto this idea and I was like I'll do it can I do it and so I did it I did it for about six days I wanted to do it for a full week and I frankly just could not last I had learned everything I thought I might learn by day six and I was like no you know what forget it I'm ending this early because I'm so frustrated this has made me hate text messaging and I love text messaging and it's made me hate composing emails on the fly and I and I love doing that too it made me hate everything about the phone which was a profound surprise to me because I have had before then I had nothing but great things to say about Michael did you limit yourself to Android only or yes I did platforms yeah only android does yeah I was just getting into that like I was only android as a matter of fact we have that on the on the headline here because I wanted to say I wanted to try all the platforms and then it was like no you know what I don't I don't use an iphone as my daily driver so if i wanted to try this i would have to carry or my iPad around everywhere and i didn't want to do that so there will be there may be future instalments of this experiment with different platforms i would like that so i guess my question in order to kind of translate this to you guys like what is your experience been with voice dictation on your daily drivers because before this experiment mine was so great when i used google google not to quit i can't want to call a google voice Google's speech-to-text engine as because it doesn't have a name right Joe it's it has no name the google's voice street is speech speech that's yeah they need to they need to name that thing major are you with me on that Joe specifically I I I have to agree with with homage to the the late Roddenberry's yes the first lady of Star Trek yes absolutely would be wonderful but I may be the rod Mary estate made a stink I don't know at any rate i loved google's voice tools before this experiment i am when i used them in a manner not intended i did not like them anymore and that shouldn't be a surprise but it was Joe what's your how do you feel about it what were you using an Ice Cream Sandwich you're using jelly bean i was using both i was using my Nexus 7 and my galaxy s3 so i was i was using both of them intermittently and i didn't notice too big a difference between them to be honest with you now the biggest difference that I've noticed accuracy is about the same which really is impressive the way things used to work on Ice Cream Sandwich essentially your Android would record your voice and it would stream it up to Google servers and then you would have the entire weight of the Google cloud behind you to recognize your voice and send back the the translation now on jellybean they've been able to compress that and do that on the device which is just a tremendously impressive the the main thing that that I noticed in using ice cream sandwich versus jellybean was there were times when I would speak whatever I wanted and all that was gone when oh sorry we couldn't get a reliable network connection try again oh oh no it has to talk him all over again so now with it being offline and jelly bean it works great now I don't use it for all my input but especially for voice commands to use the term from windows mobile use it all the time send a quick text message absolutely I will tell my android I want to send a text message to Michael Fisher I'm going to be home as soon as I can so you can start the podcast on time and great and one key press later and it sends it and it's almost perfect but that's me yeah no I these voice is different well it that's you know that's me too when I'm when I'm using it when I'm not using it 24 hours a day all right you know what I'm not using it for all my input every day I should say to what about you Tony I'm not a native speaker and everybody who has ears and who listens to this podcast immediately recognizes that I have a European accent some might say it's Russian radar is what are you talk I I don't have I don't have the pronunciation is not correct sometimes and the accents i'm using are not correct and still I managed to send emails using my voice at a fairly 95-97 success rate but of course i'm not using android as my daily driver i'm using iOS now this might be this might come down to Siri or it might come down to that stupid saying we have around here that you are speaking a to pure English for them to understand for the services to understand maybe who knows you think you're like you're being over overly your diction is overly good you sometimes i I'm I'm striving I'm striving to pronounce every word right even though it they don't come out right but somehow the system seems to understand yeah it may be because English is your main language you're speaking faster than I do at a faster pace and you sometimes tend to eat vowels and shorten words and maybe that's a problem well you know it's I I think I think it's the other way I think I've the same problem as you Tony to be honest with you because I speak when I speak to my phone I do change it up a little bit yeah I find that when I am this conversational when I'm speaking like I'm speaking to you right now it's better like it somehow they have they've tweaked it so that conversationally at least for me it picks up a lot better at this and just be keep it natural yeah and you it's it's hard to do I don't know I was there for six days I kind of fried my brain doing it I'm not going to do it anymore i'm done but i'm speaking to a computer is a very unnatural thing you don't know what to say you don't know how to say it because it's a computer for all these years we've just used either punch cards in the early days or keyboards and mice but now to use your voice how do I talk to this thing that I've used for so long right but carrying that over to mobile phones it's the same thing it's just awkward it is and it you know it's funny because these as i said in the editorial these things consistently fool us like a lot of people go through life thinking that that computers and mobile phones and and technology itself is it much more intelligent than it actually is because that's the impression they get right i mean this stuff looks tremendously advanced and it is but at its core it's just a decision machine right it's just making a hundred thousand decisions a second between yes and no and until actual artificial intelligence surfaces you know there are going to be real hard limits to things like voice interface and that's why in 10 years the voice interface while it has evolved a whole lot it would be my argument that if you ask me back in 2002 i would probably think that we would be further along by now is that's creepy I don't want a phone which would look like the PureView with a huge bump that it's back and inside there a small piece of brain inside of a fishbowl that driving my phone is just super super spooky haha that I just I didn't I've never envisioned a situation like that and that how you do and now i have nightmare fuel thank you exactly as long as we have as moms three rules of robotics built into our just fine a good point good point all right let's move on I'm really creeped out by that image Tony Thank You the brain tissue fueled PureView we are finally the last kind of Android topic Joe wrote an editorial with a wonderful header image that I liked a lot of two roads diverging in a wood about actually it's a symmetry what what they thank you Tony somebody saw it oh crap did i miss the point am I am I an idiot what I yeah it's regardless which way you go you die oh wow I've dead it that's not what I meant Tony okay that is Iran it looked at so many pictures what well on one side was the cemetery on the other side was kind of this nice little wooded area that you could walk down and have a nice day okay so we have officially a creepy podcast we do where we've moved it oh now is Halloween edition yeah well no they're both cemetery roads there's just one of them is in son and one is sort of not in son this is the way I envisioned it I mean regardless of which you choose you still gonna sink let that's to say guy again very very morbid there's listeners if you want to follow along with us follow the link in the podcast words should rim have gone with Android is the name of the editorial probably a lot less creepy than it has just become on the path but I choked you can fill us in here give us you know give us your stance and you know this is tell us what this is based on all right so spoiler alert yes rim should have gone with Android uh so now I guess you don't have to read the article but there's a lot of reasons behind that and the article was more open-ended than that it was where were they what were they doing and how did they get to where they are now and then we left the question open for for readers to decide you know should rim really have gone with Android and the reason being is just looking at making an operating system alone let alone hardware and an interface those are all very very large tasks and rim was not a really big company but they took the world by storm with push email primarily something that I kind of shook my head at because I had that with windows mobile but anyway push email with Windows Mobile eventually yes okay okay there's that qualifier we were looking for you below but you know I could get email every five minutes every ten minutes whenever it went to check but rim had to work on not only their operating system but they had their their communication layer which started out kind of just as email but then got into to some instant messaging with blackberry messenger or whatnot they had their OS that or the UI to the OS that they had to work on and they had the hardware as well and they did pretty good at all of that I think they did better at the hardware than anything else they got stuck in the mire with again trying to keep up trying to be relevant and their operating system was holding them back so should they have dumped their core OS and gone with Android and my argument is yes absolutely we look at everything right now that's running on Android and I'm not just talking smartphones it everybody has their vendor overlay their their skin HTC's got their Samsung's got theirs LG's got theirs I hate them but everybody's got them and they can customize as much as they want so you now we've got all this we also have eBook readers that are running on Android but you can't tell their Android the nook and the the kindle fire they don't look like androids but they are rim could have done that and made their own nice Hardware their own nice UI and just relied on Android as the underlying OS to power at all so that like you think rims should have gone with a custom fork of Android in it much earlier in the in the process at the very least they could also have just done what everybody else is doing and become essentially just a hardware manufacturer like Samsung like HTC the model works and we could have had an awful lot of cool things brought to the Android environment we're learned from from rim and rim could have learned from everyone else as well and because it's all based on the same platform it's very easy to make those things work in some other architecture some other infrastructure it would have been very nice to see rim hardware paired with paired with an OS that turned out to have a lot more future than the OS that shipped on a lot of that RIM hardware I agree and actually that's something I want to come back to it to tour the end of the podcast here so I want to kind of kind of leave that there for now rim doesn't get a lot of exposure on pocket now and I think once it becomes well I mean in the news it does but I think once it becomes a lot more relevant or a lot less relevant suddenly it'll you know I would really like to to kind of delve into the story of RAM a little bit more and I really hope they last I don't think they're going to but let's let's let's kind of move on before we leap out of Android here Joe you're our you're our guest you're a special guest you have is there anything we missed before you hop over to windows phone the only thing that I have to bring up is a really neat patent application and yes I know patent is a four-letter word how about a good story about a bridge google google presented this patent application into to use what looks like they're glass platform to track I movements and let you do things with emotions and in the patent that was specifically called out to unlock it imagine slide to unlock with your eyeballs there you go Tony live tweet that was gotta be yeah but we saw that in the patent application I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but that's was something that's right in front of your eyeball you've got this little teeny screen looking at your eye all day long I can only imagine Samsung's looking at that and salivating because hey they've got that much stay awake feature smart yeah that would be that would be like smart stay on steroids I mean that would be amazing and you could solve here's the crap out of me you don't want you imagine unlocking your phone with an eye pattern so you don't have to touch the screen you don't have to worry about somebody fooling that you know the face recognition by putting a picture of you in front of it you can just do some funky dance with your eyeballs and then everyone who's next to you thinks you're having a seizure but your phone is unlocked just like that if we continue at this rate the phone's gonna unlock us ooh profundity yeah um well it did that patent get granted where was that just an application from what i read it was just an application okay well that's uh I'm a wrong you know in it's not surprising considering all the developments with google glasses or whatever the hell that what do they call that glass the the other stuff okay yep yeah I'm completely not not tuned in with that I really would like to see more about that but that's awesome i did not know about that i will have to look that up let's uh what's happened to windows phone real quick here the we have to news and articles out of Nokia which always makes me happy because we kind of always talk about nokia hardware on the podcast and we don't need to do it for too long this time around but nokia is set to announce is rumored to be set to announce their first windows phone 8 devices at nokia world this year Tony you wrote this story do you uh it's a short one but this is from Bloomberg yeah yeah indeed and i'm not sure if it will happen probably we will see something like here's an early prototype and from what I think Adam had a news post according to which Microsoft was going to allegedly show off some of Windows Phone aids consumer-oriented the features at that certain nakia developer event in September 35 if I'm recalling this right so I think we will not see a new Nokia consumer-oriented phone but we'll see some nakia prototype which is used to show off some windows phone aids however if I will be wrong and Nokia will indeed announce the Lumia call it whatever you want hopefully a peer review one then it will still I will still say it's lame when we will record a podcast in December that Stephen Elop will show off the device at the beginning of September on stage and it will only available in time for the holiday season mm-hmm so I really don't want there to be any misunderstanding Stephen Elop said it himself that they want to reduce the period of time between an official announcement and the official availability of hardware because it's good for the business right by the time you you release something to the market 6 4 3 months away it's no longer buzz-worthy so it makes thoughts here I don't know what to say yet and we've also got this this other rumor which goes hand in hand with this one about Nokia's first Windows Phone 8 phone this is a photo that that comes to us from BGR and who got it from WP dang I guess what's the story here I mean this looks like a Lumia 900 to me lumia 800 all day long yeah oh it's an eight how did you think yeah i think it's an 800 it's an 800 yeah it looks a little wide to be an eight an eight hundred to me but i guess you know it could be like it has the old i commented on the piece when it went up it has the old windows phone logo as a home screen yes cindy button and it's like well that's that's kind of a dead giveaway right there isn't it but i really hope it's not gonna be the official nokia windows phone 8 because people do love don't get me wrong do love the nokia n9 the lumia 800 and lumia 900 design but it's getting old and nobody wants now gets a bull an iphone 4s oh god no and nokia can't afford i think the only know that can afford to do that or apple and to a smaller extent Samsung I mean yeah you know what nobody wants to pull an iphone 4s but yeah I got excited when I first saw the story I hopped onto the post I saw the photos and I was like well that's exactly what we have now so I feel like that's probably a device running running seven eight but at any rate it'll be fun to see what Nokia brings I would like to see also by the time this becomes relevant maybe we'll have some more nokia sales numbers I maybe jump the gun on that a little bit but it's it'll be interesting to see what the Lumia sales have done this past quarter I hope I'm not right Italy new remember to podcasts away I said that they will somehow just a quick note I think you're right this is the Lumia 900 800 I'm looking at the picture right now yeah it just looks a little wide but anyway well we'll see there'll be plenty of time to discuss that it's just wanted to cover these because it's always exciting to hear windows phone 8 and Nokia in the same sentence or Windows Phone 8 and any hardware manufacturing the same sentence because it would be really nice to see that when it finally comes to pass so at any rate and and finally in another slow weekend Windows Phone news to the last piece is the Microsoft backing away from the metro name guys the only piece that I found is is a little bit older stated by a couple days what if we've gotten to the bottom of this is it who let me let me let me let me let me yeah i live in Europe I live in Europe you guys live in the States and you don't know this because that super popular chain is not in the States so here in Europe we have company which is called Metro AG agate it's from Germany and it's a discounter it has thousands of shops across Europe and they are using the Metro name as their shops you will see plenty of those in Berlin so I think they filed against the Metro UI because the Metro moniker is trademarked to them and I know this because I worked in the field six years ago in Poland for instance Metro goes by the name of macro exactly because of some intellectual property rights so to answer your question there's a retailer discounter chain here in Europe who is using the metro name not only to describe the shops but only also for the company and they filed against the Metro UI Wow but vigil did you hear the new name or the rumored new name windows 8 style you I yes that's ridiculous Microsoft looks like they're spinning this as as like well we use metros a code name during development and now we're switching to the brand name I don't buy that for a second really metro is first of all a cool brand name for a UI second of all is probably what they should have called Windows Phone 7 I didn't think Oh with metropolitan interface or something like that well because my show stands for that yeah because Metro is like shorter and it's cleaner and it's hipper like I like Metro I really think they should have named their their mobile platform Metro instead of windows because Windows carries a lot of baggage with it but wow wow I like a compass that Joe yeah so I was just thinking um I've heard the same thing about metro AG and as I understand it like Tony said they're they're kind of a discounter so I wonder if it's not so much that Metro was upset with Microsoft using part of their name which I do think was was just the codename that got carried over into the real world I'm wondering Microsoft wasn't thinking crap these are a discounter that means what we're running windows with a discounted cheap user interface and they wanted to distance themselves from from that type of thing I think it has more to do with where Tony was going especially because Microsoft is seeing what the the legal landscape is in Germany particularly they can get shut down over there in a heartbeat and probably would but I don't know if Microsoft might just have done that I still wonder why they did just didn't call it tiles or live tiles because that's what they are yeah I mean that's kind of on the nose for like a branding perspective right but i don't know i mean we could talk about that i find it if if that is the case if this discount chain as big as it is has actually kind of instituted this and and is that the core of this i find that incredibly infuriating because i don't know Tony you can stop me on this because you have more legal background than I do but I feel like the only basis for a copyright claim on this is like likelihood of confusion and I'm never likely to confuse a UI layer that's not ever been advertised with a you know a stop and shop well you are partially right but when you trademark something whether it's in I'm sorry whether it's in the international trade how should I say this administration something like that in in Paris or in Switzerland because we have two here in Europe or it is in the states you are trademarking a name which speaks for a brand but that name that mm arrangement of letters is what is trademark not the product which is behind that so it's the word metro which is trademarked well that's there you go over here in the States we have two different laws that apply one we have trademark infringement where you are using somebody elses trademarked name and usually that doesn't have to be a registered trademark but it carries more bearing if you have that's a little circle are that you see after names otherwise it's just a little TM that you see that's definitely a no-no but it's only when the mark that you're using is in the same industry and has a potential to cause confusion because of that some companies got together and said we don't like that we don't think it's strong enough and not long ago we passed what's called a trademark delusion law where your trademark might be diluted so far there's only been one case that that's ever been tried against it and it failed and I bring that up because it's close to home the local circus Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey has the the slogan of the greatest the greatest show on earth that's their their tagline well Utah where I am right now has a slogan the greatest snow on earth because we're in the desert and we have great nice powder and everyone comes from around the world to ski the slopes out here well they sued the state to try and get rid of it under the trademark delusion because that could cause confusion because it's show vs. snow and the judge looked at that and said no this isn't gonna cost confusion at all so it's the only case that's ever been tried against that law to the best of my knowledge and they didn't win it anyway Wow so in the state's metro vs. metro AG wouldn't have any ground I think I Microsoft is just being nice to their friends in Germany yeah I think I think my favorite part of all this is that I before I came to pocket now I spent four years doing books on tape for law students as a voiceover guy and you guys have completely schooled me thank you you're bringing back memories though all this trademark dilution stuff and you know likely have confusion and yeah yeah I'm asleep okay iOS I know I'm but thank you seriously for your insight that's that is interesting stuff next time I want to talk about the transformer the hasbro transformers stuff that's all ya thank ya anyway iOS we-we'd it's basically all but confirmed that this new iphone is going to have this taller display that we've been seeing right so we've got this new story that's at an iOS simulator I guess it's the emulator is it revealing UI changes for a new taller iphone 5 display is anybody surprised by this I mean like we're all kind of sold on this new new design leak right unless we're all getting the wool pulled over our eyes well I still think that what we seen the leaks the pictures the so-called devices captured on camera are far from the real deal I will eat my words live here on the podcast the five that it turned out if I turn out to be wrong but the wide screen is slowly but surely becoming a reality and there's really no other way of pulling this out for Apple but to increase only the height resolution so going from 962 11 how much is it 1136 because all iOS has the most applications in the app store so the iTunes wins hands down even though android is closed now imagine all of the developers having a need or being required to recode their applications in order to support a new resolution just a couple of months after the retina display came out and that was also a big speed bump because initially some of the applications were just blowing and inflating up graphics and text and they were blurry I think that this is the best solution Apple could come up with because all of those application will work the horizontal resolution remains the same and I touched on this on the last podcast even if there will be some black strips at the top or the bottom or both for the first week or two I think it will serve as a stable basis from which they could start building and adding to the code I agree I'm not rebuilding yeah no I think you're right and I may have mentioned this on the last podcast I don't remember but the droid incredible 4G LTE which i reviewed recently has a sort of a similar display shape as this kind of hypothesized one and that device felt great in my hand a tall narrow device I think will will probably resonate with it with a fair amount of people so it'll be sort of interesting to see how this takes takes hold if it does but I agree we're not going to see too much slow down on development there but I'm you know what I'm doing right now what I'm holding my iphone 4s in my right hand and I'm reaching with my thumb all the way to the top left corner and I can easily easily tap that it's so growl if it becomes taller and we'll have not a 3.5 inch diagonal screen but a 4.0 4.1 I will not be able to do that and Apple will kill one-handed usability but you know I mean I don't think they I don't think they have a choice right now I just finished a piece today about whether the new iphone mini is is going to be here and it's already here like the iPhone beautiful piece by the way thank you thank you everything the iphone 4 is the iphone mini I don't Apple can no longer stick around at this 3.5 inch display resolution that excuse me display size and they need to grow and they're going to grow and and I agree that and of course but they're gonna kill one-handed usability I hate that they don't have a choice there needs to be another revolution in form factor design that makes that brings that back and it's so I don't they just kill the home bottom but kill the home but oh yeah yeah agree i wrote a piece on that like months ago I I feel that oh man should go when the galaxy has three launch with it I was livid yeah it's not a home button that's an action button that looks like that's what it should do oh and can you define action button really quickly drew sure look at your old original androids you had a d-pad you know and up down left right and in the middle as an action button it let you essentially press enter or select ok look back to Windows Mobile you had the same thing you push down on that d-pad and that was okay that's what that button is that's what that button should do it shouldn't take you back home on samsung we're on Apple that should be whatever the default action of this page is that's the button that executes sit that's an interesting perspective have you written a piece on that yet I covered it somewhat in depth with my galaxy s3 verizon edition through you yeah I think that justifies having a nice little rant overall pocket now that button should just do with a page is supposed to do make it slow make it so well it's there are no buttons on the on the ipad mini from what we can see and with that incredibly smooth segue i will ask you guys briefly very briefly because this is not a new thing at all what do you think about about this that the there's there's always a new every week there's a new ipad 7 rumor and there's going to be one until it's either confirmed or completely shot down officially by Apple so we're kind of used to these rumors but the interesting part about the most recent rumor is that the ipad 7 back case if it is a real one Tony this was the one that this is the leak that's not that's not a fake right that we don't think we don't think but you cannot confirm it we can't confirm it but it doesn't have a camera hole from what we can see so there may not be a camera on the ipad mini if an ipad mini exists we have all sorts of opinion on our site about whether that is a good or a bad thing we've talked about it a lot on the podcast that's not the interesting part the interesting part is this information what is it an email Tony take it away what happened here with uh with Steve Jobs mm-hmm well there was a case the Samsung vs apple case and if I recall well mr. Eddy Cue was was showed an email and long story short the email chain which was presented in the trial made references to steve jobs in the end not being that much against of a 7-inch form factor which which really rattled my world because everything I've heard about Steve Jobs and I've read and I've seen him talk and think just implied the opposite he was determined and he was convinced that the only real form factor for a tablet is the 9.7 inch or let's round it up to 10 inch form factor four by three aspect ratio and there were also legends built on this that Steve Jobs will never allow Apple to go with an ipad mini and this was also one of my reasons on previous podcasts of thinking that this might not be true now hearing this in an official court presented as evidence that let me just try to see the quote here if I've got that if you okay please cue said having used a samsung galaxy tab I tend to agree with many of the comments below I believe there will be a 7-inch market and we do one i express this to Steve several times since Thanksgiving and he seemed very receptive the last time there you go yeah so that's it I'm shocked I'm still shocked i mean i i'm also happy because this way we will finally see somebody putting up some real competition for the nexus 7 aside from all the other android tablets which will come out with jelly bean in a 7-inch form factor and it's strange that we're putting it this way because we still don't have a real real iPad killer as in super buttery smooth super high resolution with the ecosystem to compete with the ipad but now we're seeing and hearing rumors that there might be an iPad competing with 7-inch Androids yeah I think that will be the most interesting development in the tablet space what do you think would be the price that seven what on our 7 inch iPad yeah what would it need to be in order for it to be a real competition on the market on the and the 7-inch market well apples 350 bucks freemium on it yeah so I would would you say 350 yeah 100 over here over the other one 350 yeah I'd be with you on that I wouldn't disagree at all I think that's exactly what Apple would do they put a hundred-dollar premium on it they say they justified by saying yeah well it's an apple product it's gonna do the job better and look how many more apps we have and look it's aluminum and we or whatever it is in blah blah blah I what if it's plastic what if it's plastic no rear camera super cheap components 250 just like the Nexus 7 I think another company would do that I don't think Apple would I and if they did people would buy it but I don't think people would be happy with it well the initial iphone had a blasting backing know the initial iphone had an aluminum one it was the three joel two seconds long yeah the 3g right exactly yeah and you're right they took it down and but that was also in line with their design lineage of the time right where they had to the macbook and you did a lot of plastic products on there so true i think they've gone to metal I think metal they really identify with metal whatever it is it's brushed whatever magnesium we need to get Jaime on so you can talk about iOS another advantage to metal is it acts as a very very good heat sink to help dissipate the heat which makes things run cooler arguably run faster so I don't see him going away from from metal backing a tall glass isn't quite as good I think they learned their lesson there and I think we'll start seeing more metal stuff yeah is it isn't metal killing the strength of antenna power like we're sitting yeah the reception as in Wi-Fi Bluetooth GPS yeah that's def gsm not good for it i mean like manufacturers combat that by putting you know what little rubber windows in there and little plastic cutouts and stuff and being creative with that yeah it's it's a good point i would like to see apple do something with the Holy harbin harbin absolutely like a polycarbonate super fan over here but I yeah I think that gonna handle anything I not gonna happen to you say not gonna happen no how about Kevlar yeah maybe so anything ceramic even if it speaks premium apples all about premium so I wouldn't be surprised to see ceramic backings but what you don't think but polycarbonate you don't think now polycarbonate is still and this is my night voice it's past midnight here so I'm sorry I toned it down a little bit holy carpet is still plastic and plastic still screams cheap do you guys remember how we bash samsung for the cheap aspect go ahead i'll still bash them night and day yes plastic is cheap and making silver colored plastic is Jackie completely agree no completely agree but look at you can't equate samsung's galaxy s3 with the HTC One X and Andrew Lumias Yeah right right because like the One X in the Lumias are beautiful beautiful hardware to hold in the hand and they feel different they look different they sound different when you drop them in their unique and exciting off your wounds Michael don't problem drop test is part of the review man he's not the drop that is the sound of the drop test yeah no but I mean like so I think polycarbonate has you know the potential to be a very premium material and I think it's treated as such and I think people receive it as such so I don't know it's unless Samsung is there to coat it in a coating of hyper glaze in which case well canister and let's say that it's just slimy and greasy and it just and he slips away entirely right entirely correct absolutely right all right Jen we're running low on time so let's hop into our two-minute debate corner here I change this up listeners on the guys about halfway through the podcast because we got Joe talking a little bit about rim initially I wanted to ask it should rim have gone with Android but and Joe you can talk a little bit about Android in your response if you want but I'm interested in hearing about this not often discussed possibility should rim mmm or should they still go with Windows Phone go with a strategic Microsoft partnership or angle for another angle again for a buyout should rim try to get windows phone support this is a very unlikely scenario but it's one I'm interested in and what kind of success do you think they admit with who wants to go first I can go first because i have actually prepared my answer for your initial question whether rim should have gone android and my answer basically answers your actual current question so good to know I don't think rim should have gone into it I think they should have gone Windows Phone and I'm going to force a comparison here between research in motion and Nokia they are both excellent hardware manufacturers and they both had platforms which are dead symbian and blackberry OS well BlackBerry's not that data symbian but it's dying slowly so the reason nakia didn't go android is because they wanted to differentiate themselves rather than be just one OEM in the sea of other OEMs running android platforms and i think this would have happened with rim if they went with the android they would be probably how should I say the humiliated sales wise by Samsung and HTC and they will probably start competing with device manufacturers like LG huawei ZTE and the research in motion is much more than that so if there would be a decision if I would make the decision I would go windows phone because as with Nokia it would allow me to show off my hardware with my services on the platform which allows me to be recognized for what I am very nice uh thank you Tony Joe Jim Tony I like everything that you say but I am one ID from you I disagree entirely nokia isn't owned for hardware they've always always made good hardware i've owned nokia stuff and I loved it and I really didn't know or even care about the OS because it was nokia when they went windows mobile they were kind of co branding the nokia hardware name with the the Microsoft Windows Phone I'm sorry I said windows mobile and I'm still in that era not with the windows phone interface with that look and feel rim is not that RIM makes great hardware but rim also had a look and feel that was distinctive and that i think was even more important than the neural hardware experience that you had with the phone it did what it did and it did it well and that wasn't just hardware that was software so by by picking up android and even just using that as the background OS with with their own custom whatever on top of it where you couldn't even get to android you didn't have the same marketplace you didn't have the same anything it was just the guts of it i think they could have then not only kept the same look and feel that they'd already established their users were used to but they also could have appealed to the enterprise customer that's who I think really really is the core customer for rim is people who really don't have a choice because your company says here's your phone have a nice day because it talks so well to the enterprise to the security to administration to just deploying and having it work so rim I don't think they could have done windows mobile or Windows Phone rather it would have just been it would have been giving up 10 seconds trip that's it it would have been given up wow I'm a question for you Michael yeah I'm gonna hit me whatever great timing there Joe you man you know how to do that two men I think you guys a timer yeah I believe it or not I did that was just Joe the android guy at his finest Wow top notch it if what's your question Tony hit me so um I'm sure many will will agree with me when I'll say that some of blackberry devices resemble very much with the the palm HP devices Michael what would you think if rim would go open webOS oh wow wow that's that's a great question and it's it's one that I think was relevant a little while ago when when we HP put webos up for sale and I think rim was rumored is one of the potential suitors even back then it was probably a baseless but rim hardware is absolutely beautiful as has been mentioned or it was some of it was in its in its time its keyboards are unparalleled and palm has always been a huge keyboard of fanatic I think I think if you took only the best part of each of rim and what palm had with webos something compelling might have emerged but I just don't trust rim that much in its current state or in its past eight to handle it anything of course would have been better than HP but what I'd like to have seen devices like that yes I don't think rim would have built them I think they would have stripped web West for parts and and made it you know fail even harder than it did but if REM adopted open webOS I would I would I would love to see that and I would buy five such devices of course that answer is based on the fact that currently there's no guarantee that any hardware official hardware will be released running open webOS but no really I that's a very good question Tony and I maybe maybe we'll see that I hope who knows i think i think that'll make a viable third option for us mmm God think it would be beautiful yeah all that just feel worth option before let's just hope they won't go I don't know bada or something like that yeah let's just hope they start out um cool well I there was a miscellaneous peach which we're gonna skip this week we have one piece of listener mail before we wrap it up and i really love listener mail so listeners if you actually we all do please stick around till the end of the podcast so you can listen to how to send that in this comes from us it comes to us from McKinley AKA ubi 2447 if i recall well is a ghost not only a reader but also an avid commenter on our website i believe so as well it was i'm gonna refer to you as mckinley you will be because it's just easier in the in the podcast but it's really great hear from him he's got a great question so i just watched he says so i just watched number 004 noticed i headed the zeros and I want her to offer a question to you in regard to the motorola razr HD in the biscuit phone yeah the biscuit postage stamp phone my question is do you think that even with the formidable release of the s3 the galaxy s3 moto has done a disservice to the device by giving it a release date of even a month from now i asked this because i feel that it's been somewhat of a standard to see their top tier devices with 720p displays specifically dual-core as for processors 1 gig of ram etc with not much variation on that model so i think the question here is is dewey that's the question do we do we think that motorola is is doing the device a disservice by holding it like should they push it out the door right now is how I'm reading this to you guys read it the same way well yeah from what I understood and I think this has been answered in this podcast and my previous ranch that it's lame regardless of who's doing it to announce something today and to push it on the market three or four months away or even two months away so um I don't I think whenever you are ready to show something off to the world better be ready to have it in less than 30 days on the shelves I'm not talking carriers here because even though it's it could be possible discussing it with carriers beforehand is possible but as far as global versions are concerned there are no carrier tie up so just have it ready to be on the market one month from the announcement and that should be a decent amount of time what do you think Joey you think what role should hold this for release it unfinished I'll take a little bit of a different stance and we just went through the whole Nexus Q I don't want to call that a debacle but it was interesting wasn't it we heard about a device and they released it a month from now from when they released it and people got it and you know it's not what they wanted it's it looked cool we we had a lot of buzz about it but it wasn't what they wanted so by motorola announcing this and kind of getting it out there I think they're gauging they're essentially their their market share their interest they're seeing if it's really a viable product if they really should do it before they go and and push it out on everybody because nobody wants something that's pushed out in half baked or know or won't compete so I think they're doing a service to everybody in the end users who really want it or gonna get a better device because of it but this begs a question if I may yo let's say you are an excellent cook chef would you put in front of me on the table a half-baked meal I mean and and you put it in the specific context why show something off if it's not finished if it's not ready for prime time other than just to gauge interest and see if it's what your your customers want on that's the only viable reason why I see your point I agree with it entirely but I still think that the analogy with with food may not be entirely true because yeah you know people people can change on a dime and release hardware with different specs right away it's getting the right specs that's that's what's more important not to mention i think the analogy is that like if there's food being advertised to you like your your promised food at one table in your dining room and you know whoever's cooking is like yeah just just few more minutes look here's a picture of what i'm making you you know that's fine but what if right out the window there's a fast-food restaurant whose chimney is just like blowin smoke right right through your kitchen is like god that smells amazing because that's what the market is you know it's not just stand alone manufacturers it's everyone else is being like hey I mean yeah you could buy you could buy what they've got right now but look what we've got coming in four months maybe you hold off for a second you know I think its consumer psychology I I want to keep this short because I know we're short on time but I personally as far as I'm concerned it always backfires on me I love the Nokia 808 PureView I held it in my hands in Barcelona in February can you believe it that only now it gets on the shelves here in Europe I mean come on and no longer interested in that phone because meanwhile we have the galaxy s3 we have some new products which will come up and you know what whatever you show me for months ago I'm no longer interested even if you put a quad-core processor yeah hypothetical fictitious Tony that me that may be true for but I mean you're in love with that peer review even though you had to wait six months for so you know I feel like I feel like Nokia it worked like they seduced you and they were like look what's gonna be ready look what's coming down the pipe and you're like whatever I'm tired of waiting and then it comes to your door and you're like yeah this is the phone i want not everybody had the opportunity to to hold it in their hands in barcelona so if i was to only judge it by by the ads and by the specs I would have probably said yeah you know what keep it true that's a good so can we agree that there's a there's a line there yeah between companies wanting to get out their information say here it is this is what's coming and being able to get that in our hands versus having just too much time pass and then it becomes more frustrating or irrelevant I can only say this and this is one of the reasons I respect Apple apples keywords at every keynote are quote available today yeah and and I've said everything yeah no it's very true we've actually stumbled into the second half of McKinley question you know do you feel like this is a he's just not sure that cool looks a large 2500 milliamp hour battery about and a high megapixel camera are enough to keep me from waiting the few more months for Google's new NEX I or one of those new super devices I like the word next I by the way we keep getting whispers about yeah you know there's always going to be something hot right around the corner you know there's always going to be something new coming down the pipe especially in mobile technology and honestly I think you have to jump on what looks compelling to you Nexus products are awesome in the Android world but honestly I haven't been recommending a nexus phone to people who ask me what Android they should get by and large because when I ask them questions it turns out that their needs are met by phone that's not a nexus phone like the galaxy s3 or like the 1x or whatever skin be damned so I think that you need to wait personally this is me McKinley Michael you need to wait until the device drops you need to hold it in your hand read a couple reviews get a feel for the software and then make the decision then because if you're constantly looking into the future and seeing what's coming next you're never going to be able to buy anything and if possible just go the European weight and don't buy on contract right if if you can afford it yeah no absolutely absolutely and honestly end of the day that's what pocket now is here for we're gonna tell you what's new and what's coming down the pike but we're all gonna tell you this is what is available now we're gonna let you know after the buzz if it's still worth it after it's not shiny and new anymore so that you know if this is something that you should put your money into her if you should wait for the next round to come around dad we agreed that is a solid button right there Joe thank you make a tshirt out of my way well with that guys I'm sure that it has been an excellent podcast I want kind of want to wrap it up here it it has been awesome having you on the show Joe thank you for joining us I'm glad I could make it thank you me too I'm glad we could fulfill the desires of some have some commenters and readers and probably a lot more than actually commented so we're looking forward to having you back again very soon since you have all me drake and you sound great it's brand new shiny today you should do an after the buzz yeah when it's not shiny on you and for exactly ah detection face Mike um now it pocket now Puckett this that would be a cool name for thing all right we got here Tony anything before we wrap up here I think we're already too long too many words today so I'm gonna skip this one and hand it over to Joe because he's a special guest sounds sounds good what are you what are you handing it over to Joe for whatever i'm closing thoughts Oh closing thoughts yes yes Joe do you haven't it is it is the wrap-up session uh you know I just wanted to say thanks for having me on I want to do this more often obviously it gets great especially meeting with you guys to our to our listeners and to our readers it you're gonna read something from us on pocket now and I want everybody to know that just because one editor says something doesn't mean that that's the only opinion that we have here and I think that's one of the great things about the podcast as we get so many different opinions in different perspectives I mean can you imagine you're hearing opinions about about blackberry from an Android guy or from you know I OS the cross over is what's there and that's what makes it great and that's where you know I like having everybody follow us on twitter and on on google+ so that you can get some of that participation because once the articles posted we don't leave it alone Tony's commented lots of times on my articles you have to Michael so we try and add that on the articles the podcast just makes it a lot easier yeah they're great what's that that is Sal and that that rat us out of the wrap up yep that's right that's that's it listeners thank you for listening this is this has been episode 005 of the pocket now weekly feel free to throw a tweet our way most of us are pretty active in the Twittersphere is Joe just mentioned when he's here Brandon minimum is at Brendan minimun Tony over there is at anton d Naja dance until death please go to our letters A and T 0 n D and a Gy and following that pattern Joe Levi the android guy is at Joe Levi I was late to the Twitter game so my handle is not my name you can find me at at captain two phones that's captain the number two phones you can follow pocket now official Twitter account at at pocket now tweets you can follow us on facebook at facebook.com slash pocket now on google+ at g + t 0 slash pocket now or just search for pocket ouch probably easier please leave us a review on iTunes or zune if you like the podcast and finally if you have a topic question suggestion for the podcast or you just want to say hi leave us an email at podcast at pocketnow.com thank you everyone for listening we'll see you next week nobody skill it