Gadgetory

from pocketnow.com this is PocketNow weekly hello and welcome to episode 0 20 of the pocket now weekly the once-a-week podcast from pocketnow.com where we discuss what's hot and what's cool in the world of mobile technology Windows Android iPhone everything in between I'm your host Michael Fisher senior editor at pocket now and I'm joined by our managing editor and Tandy Naja good afternoon to you sir top of the morning to you guys and and by our editor-in-chief the man in charge Brandon minimun good morning to you yo yo yo what up different size then one feel left out no it's good i we got to bring some freshness here we just listened to or at least I just listened to jock jams to to fire up my morning because um you as the adult listeners in the crowd will know and the underage listeners should not know but maybe do you should not party really late after having eaten nothing and that's what I did last night so about 15 minutes ago I was feeling absolutely what very low I was feeling very very horrible about life and then I listened to this awful awful audio mix called jock jams and if you were not a teenager in the late 90s in America you probably don't know about it just you youtube it and you'll enjoy it it's great i want to kick off the podcast with it but we have the writing said we have some stuff to get through here we've got a special announcement i'm guessing we have at least one or two new listeners to this particular episode because it's the first time we've tied in the podcast our weekly podcast which we do every week called the pocket now weekly in with a giveaway contest and that is a giveaway for this sonos wireless hi-fi system so at some point listeners if you have not checked it out on our website you should just search for sonos s 0 n 0 s on pocketnow.com and it's it's a sweet wireless audio system I happened to listen to one at a winery over the Thanksgiving holiday and its really awesome it's constrained internet and you know it's it's very good quality sound you've got remote control and stuff we're giving one of these systems away so at some point you're into the episode today you will hear a hint word it is a single word hint and it is the only hint you need and all you need to do when you hear that hit word is to email it to contest good is to continue listening to the podcast who is gonna make ya that's right your first step is not to immediately tune out of the podcast and your second step is not to immediately go to the comments and tell everyone where what the time code is at the hint because I think we're going to disable comments to prevent that cuz there's always some tool out there but unfortunately our listenership is not comprised of tools mainly but there's always somebody who wants to ruin all the fun but go send the hint to contest at pocketnow.com follow so nose and pocket now on facebook and or Twitter and that's all you need to do to enter the giveaway it's a really cool giveaway so what what bread right you're like I can hear you laughing I don't know what your laughing about but i like it i'm smiling i was thinking of maybe we should get some of the these gears for us four eva and mwc just keep on rockin in the hotel room it's a really really good idea we men don't we do we gotta make sure and keep the door open as well go ahead just a yes some so nose is really really good stuff there's one there's one thing missing um I've got a sonos or two and and it's very enjoyable but the thing is you gotta plug in the sonos to the wall obviously to power it it would be so cool if there was a portable sonus that worked like over bluetooth or created somehow a Wi-Fi mesh network so you could take you could take your little sonos thing kind of like what is that the jawbone jambox right yeah it's like the size of the jawbone jambox you take a cheeks with you to the beach and you can control the sonos from your smartphone and and it would have to work differently because right now sonos works over your router there's like a wireless bridge and so it's really downloading content from the internet on its own so it would actually have to do like internet pass through through your phone if it's streaming from say Spotify you know duh I really hope they come out with a portable product mazing I was gonna say I would be very surprised to learn that they were not at least thinking of doing that I mean it sounds like a great idea to me it's it's it's a cool system you know you check it out I didn't give it much thought until like I say thanksgiving holiday I'm at a vineyard and they're playing this stuff and I'm like wow that's really amazing sound and then two days later Tony's like Michael we're going to do a giveaway it's gonna be the sonos thing like how awesome um it so anyway so that's that that's that's all you need to know so listeners if you don't know why later on there's a hint word coming on you you should have listened to this portion yeah and this is not that this is not the hint yet exactly the the second thing we want to kind of jump into this thought thread to kick off the show and this is something that Tony and I were talking about yesterday we got news recently just to kind of we're kicking the self with Windows Phone by the way we got news recently there's some rumors out that this Samsung at Eve s they're kind of blockbuster monstrosity of a windows phone is uh is delayed and I think we're pretty confident in this rumor there has there's no update update tag on this retracting it or anything like that but it might not be arriving until next year is the is the word I think for what yeah until 2013 stock market yet for some markets and Tony and I were talking about the absurdity of this because the deity vest was kind of if it wasn't the first windows phone 8 device officially announced it was one of the first right it was the first it was the personal every time I think about the OTS I just closed my eyes and remember you and me even in Berlin at the Samsung booth and we knew the press release was out and we were asking for deity best because we didn't see it on display and it wasn't on display but it was the first windows phone 8 device to be announced yeah we were playing with the smart PC and the the other the windows 8 tablets and it's like I wonder if they've got the achieve s out and we kind of expected to get a hands-on but yeah no dice and you know it's interesting that it was the first to be announced and it's going to be the last of the windows phone 8 devices to be released so I think uh what do we think of the reasons for this I mean do you think this is a tactical move do we think that you know this is a mechanical problem what's what's going on oh I I'll put forth a theory I think that over the last six months Samsung has been hyper-focused on galaxy s3 note 2 as so much so that they've probably allocated fewer engineers and and and product managers to the windows phone at T vests and so now they're they're dragging their feet a little bit and I think the carriers are pushing back and saying hey you know we've already got the 8x and the Lumia 920 and the 822 and all of these other windows phone they're already positioned that ready to go we can't release and yet another windows phone in December it would mess up our marketing message you guys are too late let's do it next year you think there's there's reverse there's like pressure from the carriers not to not to release it in the midst of all this I would think that they would want to push as many devices as they possibly could for the holidays yeah it's either the carriers are pushing back and Samsung is just ready now or Samsung's just not ready what if you know I I was wondering if maybe Samsung had some if there was some animosity there because Microsoft has really been showing a whole lot of I mean you know HTC has got there halo windows phone products Nokia's got there really intense stuff and they're getting a lot of kind of love from from Microsoft in that region I just wonder if you know I mean and then here's Samsung with this device that I'm looking at the leaked image right now and it's like wow this is kind of like what I mean it's kind of like a squared-off galaxy s3 for windows phone but I mean it's not terribly compelling so I don't know it doesn't seem like they have a lot invested in what's going on with the the windows phone 8 platform I don't know I mean maybe maybe they're they're trying to make a decision on whether windows phone is is worth their time and they and they kind of I mean it going with the theory that Samsung something ready maybe they want to wait and see here about some holiday sales numbers on Windows phones and if it's if it's if it's enough to get consumers attention they'll jump in and maybe even start working on another windows phone or if not they'll just you know launched this at Eve s and C and probably have at mediocre sales what if what if they're working on countering some of the some of the special features from like Nokia and some of the special stuff that HTC is doing what if they're what if they come out of the gate with this at Eva's way late but they follow the mantra of if we can't be first we're going to be better like what if Samsung just it takes a lot of their features from the galaxy s3 and adapt some you know to to Windows Phone 8 like remember when the galaxy s3 lot was announced and it was like here's 47 features you're not gonna use you know 32 of them but the rest are really really cool like I wonder if that's what the thinking is here you're creating a megaphone right yeah I just partially happen to agree with Brandon and I agree with him in regards of Samsung being to blame I don't blame the carriers I just think that I'm gonna put this out there samsung doesn't care about Windows Phone I think their experience with Windows Phone 7 7.5 made them learn or even more their experience with with Android made them learn that the the real money is where Android is for them so yeah I don't think they do care about it and I don't think they're ready they yeah that that's a good point i mean they're they're making a lot of money from their stamp their their android devices and their their number one and android right now they need to stay number one and it's not easy to do that whenever there's a lot of money up for the taking the competition gets better and better like this HTC DNA we're going to talk about later is is is awesome LG's got some good stuff and Motorola well I don't know that and so and so Samsung's like we and we gotta keep this momentum we gotta start you know we gotta get this galaxy s4 out in the next three or four months we you know this Windows Phone thing is just it's a hedge against Android we don't really need a hedge right now because it's clear that Android has a big future right yeah I'd I guess we'll see I mean I'm very much looking forward to seeing what what Samsung bring to the table I'm gonna be very disappointed if it's a situation like the focus what was that the focus s that was like the galaxy s2 for windows phone yeah when was it means not a bad product i'm not saying that it was just like that but but just think about it for a second I mean windows phone has a two-point three percent market share do they care to be at the third or a second OEM in a three percent market share or do they care to be the first ones in a seventy two percent market share sure and I did see I find that argument more compelling for somebody like like LG right who doesn't have a lot of that they're they're a big company but they're not doing terribly well and they want to focus their efforts they really want to hone their efforts on one particular platform didn't do well there and I think we're seeing them do that with with the optimus G on Android but you know LG is not doing anything on Windows Phone and but for samsung with all of these resources that Samsung has a samsung is just so massive and and has so much you know spare capacity i think you know i feel like they can say they can be kind of like Microsoft they're like yeah you know we'll lose money on this to try and to try and play the long game here well I think it's a matter of will willing to do that because as you said it's the galaxy s3 the chassis is there the screen is the same the casing is almost the same the only thing which is different than this phone and I'm looking at the specs is probably the chipset which is a Qualcomm instead of the maxi nose processor so that shouldn't be a problem for a company like Samsung i think it's it's more of a matter of i don't want to do that I mean why should I do that I don't it yeah I guess we'll see um we're gonna uh I do want to jump into two windows phone 8 like first first I I understand that our editor in chief has something to say well I've got a thought third to you do yes this is a surprise folks this wasn't in the London in the rundown all right go go go I hope it's not role-playing I love it I hope it's not role-playing job uh so you guys might have noticed that in the google play store after you download an app there's a button now that says keep shopping have you noticed oh yeah it's awesome why's it awesome well because because i've been downloading apps non-stop on my lumia 920 recently and I've been just so tired of getting kicked back into the OS from the store and having to jump back into the store yeah yeah but wait so they keep shopping button go ahead continue to make your point the Android the Play Store never kicked you out so a turret didn't so they just made it they made a subtle change but I think it's actually a bigger change than that um I'm trying to hash out this thought it's rather complex I think that that keep shopping button along with several other things is a a new push from google it's very subtle to get p to buy more stuff in android because the vast majority of android users I'm like iOS users don't buy things they don't buy apps they look for free apps first most normal humans do and they really don't you know they're not spending you know five twenty thirty dollars on content so so you look at the nexus set then the nexus 10 which come pre-loaded with these big widgets that have like books and movies and TV shows and and then you look at the new slogan for the next family of devices which is the playground is open right and then you've got this button that says keep shopping and that word shopping when I when I download free apps I'm not shopping but when I shop i'm paying for stuff so i think they're kind of subtly putting a message in android users head that yeah this google play store now is so much more than four REE apps it's a place where you can buy stuff and in fact you should buy stuff so that developers can make more money so that we can fix this problem of not so good android tablet apps because if a developer wants to make a tablet app they make it for the ipad and they make more money because iOS users are so used to buying things you know right and not to mention users on other platforms like like windows from there's a lot more paid apps on windows phone there were a lot more expensive apps on webos when it was around yeah that's that's an interesting point i was just trying to download an app a couple apps while you were speaking on the Play Store and I actually couldn't get the keep shopping button to pop up but maybe that's because I was doing it on the note 2 or maybe you don't have the latest version of google play store right that's probably what it was yeah because i haven't used this thing in a couple weeks yeah we know that's that's it that's fascinating on a kind of a broad level and i wonder i often find myself wondering this about Google's business model right it's like their their whole thing is like get their content in front of more eyeballs so that adds can be served so that there's a bigger you know they get more ad revenue but it's interesting to see them like you know you find other ways or appear to try to find other ways of generating you know income and maybe it's a it's a move to keep the developers happier you know we've here heard from them time and time again like we got it we got to court these developers because we need apps particularly for the tablet right right yeah it's a it's a it's a subtle move towards towards that so that's uh that's my quick little thought I think I think that's that that that button changes a little more significant than just over there you know you're tweaking the UI they're taking the UI yeah yeah I agree speaking of updates and jumping back into two windows phone because it's our news leader for the day because there's so much windows from I'd love that there's so much windows phone news is I feel like we spent so long not talking about it and that was just this massive dump of information there's an OTA update coming in December to fix Windows Phone 8 reboot problems or that is the the rumor and Tony you wrote this story and I've experienced a random reboot on my lumia 920 the other day really yeah and because I know I I covered as I think it was one or two weeks ago and it was specific to a carrier in Germany and it was related to the radio acting as a 4g / LTE radio or a gsm radio and when I poked around in the States some of the users so that there weren't a problem in the US so you did have some problem I did indeed yeah and apparently so this is your story says that these are reports of not only Lumia 920's but also Windows Phone 8 x's from that is juice yes interesting so it's probably something in the in the in the firmware you know some somewhere deep down there it is it is very good that Microsoft is working on this i but i have a problem we always see that phones are a little bit late to the market and even if they are not specifically late to the market the period between announcing the phone and shelf availability or let me even go further back between the prototype and the availability is dedicated to feel testing to bug fixing it I'm sure they can miss a bug or two but with random reboots on several OEMs on several models it's just something Microsoft shouldn't have missed you know I and I feel like all of the carrot this this happens to all of them right I mean I I feel like even even the Apple has some their fair share of issues with with the iphone surely that's right we talked about the we've talked about that before and it is always annoying and it's kind of every single company has it has this habit now because it's the new reality or the not so new reality it's been the reality for a while of releasing products that aren't ready yet and saying we'll fix with an update especially with Microsoft who is always late to the market right yeah yeah and it's it's been interesting kind of getting to know Windows Phone over the course of the past couple weeks and just like getting into that kind of mindset and I've felt at times that Windows Phone 8 is a little undercooked and this is an example of it at the core level I'll look forward to getting that update but it's not the only update on the agenda because the there's this rumored additional like a major Windows Phone 8 Update you know not that this is huge news of its existence because of course updates are always coming but I like that they that the rumor is that it's called Apollo plus which is the node 0 of Windows 8 exactly report a mango windows 8 and the you know this comes from a Twitter leakster of football for PDA who's given good information in the past and it's it there's no details about what the update might contain its supposed to drop I think early next year and I think the big thing that everyone's waiting on is Notification Center right like I mean that's that's the big giant thing that Windows Phone 8 is lacking for free geeks for the people who follow the mobile space it's like we could really use a notification center and I wrote a story to the opposite effect a couple weeks ago but now having used Windows Phone 8 for for a couple weeks I'm like yeah I don't I no longer have that opinion and and as as you point out Michael they're sort of you can kind of configure your Start screen to be your own little mini Notification Center if you do it right absolutely right and that's why these new small tiles on the home screen are very very useful and you know me I'm so sick of talking about resizable home tiles I'm Windows Phone 8 but its its true like you me make a bunch of tiny little tiles you put them into a little corner your home screen boom there's your little notification center the problem is with apps like Twitter like the Twitter app that does not give you notification or it gives you toast notifications but if the tile doesn't support notifications in its small form so it's like well crap you know I can't if I miss a toast notification I should go in the Twitter app to see it and then you ask well why do you use the Twitter app Michael you should use the People Hub well I do but I have multiple Twitter accounts and the people of doesn't set horan multiple Twitter accounts which is is it isn't like a like a power user Twitter a client for windows phone that it has like a really advanced or really comprehensive live tile yeah I think row we are rally or whatever rrow I is the one I used last time around I just haven't had time I wonder if carbon there was a nap there's a twitter app for webos called carbon and it was beautiful and then they poured its windows phone and it was all so beautiful I'm gonna download that right after i get off the podcast I'm actually taking note on that well guys with the shared quarter with windows 8 I wouldn't be surprised to see I don't know tweetdeck or seized make or other huge Twitter applications for windows phone I well I would agree normally but isn't twitter itself kind of really not you know kind of trying to get third party twitter apps off the grid actually tweet back i think is owned now by it by twitter OSI yeah she's right yeah i was about to say that i bet at mwc in barcelona at the end of februari we'll see Steve Ballmer on stage getting excited about 500 features plus and a below plus I just hope the following think will not happen I just wrote a beast today the Samsung I don't know exactly let me just look it up real quick it should be on the front page it was the samsung focus to on AT&T getting its windows film tango updates today so come on guys I just hope this will not ever happen in the future regardless if it's a carrier phone an unlocked phone microsoft needs to amp their their game needs to have updates right now I mean if any update is announced for may deliver it in May yeah they need to be timely and they also need to be significant to the user what Microsoft likes to do is come out and say we've got these 500 new features 498 of which are under the hood things you'll never notice but 22 of which are slightly you know people want like that that's why that's why it's so fun and get a software update cuz it like changes sites almost like you have a new product yes and and so we need more of these features that are actually like you WI things that actually make your everyday experience better yes and actually I was thinking about the upgrade process to Windows Phone 8 and it's so it's got to be so frustrating to have worked on this thing because I think the analogy that somebody Microsoft used if Fred my apologies I forget who said it you know what we did when changing from seven to eight was was like changing the changing the engine on a on a race car in the middle of the race without slowing down you know and fire the pilot at the same time yeah but it's it's like and that's so true and it's such a huge accomplishment but as a result what happens is they've delivered an experience with Windows Phone 8 very much like Windows Phone 7 that is a massive awesome accomplishment but it is also not very impressive to the end user who's expecting you know from this full point upgrade this end user that you're expecting like oh wow would have they done to the UI Oh resizable live tiles yeah you know and of course there's more to it I'm overstating the case a little bit but I've just imagine it how frustrating it must be to be one of the people who worked on this and then to hear you know like if people complaining that there's not a lot different but anyway it's it that's one of these things that Windows Phone is one of these frustrations that that Michael phone users yeah yeah do you hear your Lumia 920 near you yeah you have your do you have your segway smashing hat on again yes yes I do I've got it right in my hand what can I do for you I'll make this relate and chip Joey do you guess what she said Jolie about to go ahead go ahead I I'm just curious what you have on your Start screen no i don't to hear everything just you know can can you summarize the top you know yeah the first screen there yeah totally actually if you look at my my story from yesterday five frustration or five solutions to Windows Phone frustrations listeners you can see a lot of screen grabs of my lumia 920 yeah I've got the people on me tiles are big so that I can see them you know rotating and doing fun stuff I've got a ton of tiny tiles off to the right for my notification center for phone and text and email and other email and so forth and then I've got Evernote and weather and a couple calendars that's what's living at the top and then as you go further down it just becomes this big array of stuff why do you have blank spots near OneNote now that is a great question because the like the impulse rightist is to say I want to fill every single square inch of usable space on this screen with stuff that is useful to me but you know what happens we need to do that like it's really ugly I think mmm I heightened it I think when you pack the screen full of stuff and there's no there's no negative space it is just this massive and remember half these live tiles are animating so it just becomes this massive sci-fi panel out of the future but normally I would be into your Lumia is missing a tooth man i think the missing teeth are are a lot of fun but brandon you you would arrange your your home screen differently I hate wasted space I'd have to fill every last pixel with usable of stuff foot of help between two towels yeah you're right put titles on top of tile hey you know Apollo plus they might do overlap overlapping times are they gonna do card stacks for tiles um ya know about they do some cubes I mean you can he can maybe touch the tile and it would rotate when it would spin hey we could have HTC Sense from like 2063 up the cube now I think you know I think one of my favorite things about windows phone is its beautiful design is the modern UI and i think that the modern UI looks really looks a lot better just just personal taste when you leave a couple of couple tiles unused or if you use the official weather channel app which you know times out from time to time and then you have a blank space there anyway so that is god I hate Weather Channel apps it doesn't matter what platform it is they're always they're beautiful but they're bloated and they bog down well anyway let's not talk about the android weather channel app is atrocious it is so bad yeah the iOS weather channel app is actually pretty good they and then the ipad whether China up is pretty good but everything else I gravy just it's like the bits the biggest weather organization I think and they just they need to hire more app developers guys can I go off topic for a second what we're already there so please off topic from the autopsy I just keep on thinking about this ever since weather widgets or something weather-related appeared on phones why would anyone use a weather widget a weather app I mean just look at the window and it's it's the current state of the weather the current temperature and it's the city or living in I look out the window and I see what I wanted to see well you can buy them to travel somewhere I look it up over the web right right well I mean it's for the forecast to but but it's also temperature right when I'm inside like I'm ins right now I'm inside a four by six padded booth that's inside another room with no windows i am absolutely cut off from nature and if i want to know if I want to go get some more coffee which I will do in about an hour you know it's like I want to know how cold it's gonna be out there so I like knowing the current conditions Tony I agree with you I I have windows in my life and I can I can look outside and you know you know the time of year you know it's probably cold or warm I think that one of the reasons people like having these uh these weather widgets is because a lot of companies have made them beautiful especially HTC like the full screen weather animations yeah I don't care if you you know if you spend all day outside it's just really pretty uh and and there's you know there's something about like clouds and sunshine on your digital device that's kind of satisfying personally I don't have them because like you Tony I just look out the window but I can see the draw they're beautiful they can be beautiful they're rid of what i really liked on the HTC hd2 sense always had some animations full screen animations when it was snowing outside it snowed on top of your icons yeah i was the remember that was awesome yeah i was really sir and then the windshield wiper would come down yes you still do that on i'm pretty sure the latest android on the lid on sun since four plus i think so i'm gonna actually test it i've got the DNA here while you guys are talking because there's an option to show full screen whether animation and I'm like I don't want to use cpu cycles for that crap but the case of a for the case of this this demo I'm a scientist thought that what it is for science is the first science I always thought that was really cool i mean you know for as much crap as we give HTC for like the bloat of sense and all that and for as tacky as it is i'd really like that windshield wiper animation when listeners if you're not familiar like there would be if it was rainy outside the forecast Holdren was rainy would give you little spots on your on your flesh like splashes right like you're driving along and you were getting drizzle on your screen and then every so often a windshield wiper would come down from the top and like no I mean it's tacky but I really liked it a lot well Brandon is looking that up on the on the DNA I want to stick with with Windows Phone until we jump into Android and the so anyway point is that there's a lot of adaptation that is required to go to windows phone from another platform and you know i I've been surprised in the past couple days just how much I've liked the Lumia 920 because I think last week did you guys ask me like so how do you actually like it and I'm like yeah you know and I'm still really annoyed that there's no frickin Spotify app but you know besides missing apps and finding other apps really lackluster from from major title you know coders I I'm really enjoying the experience now because I you know if I've gotten over the culture shock i've gotten over the transition i miss a lot from android still but and one would argue that you do not need Spotify since you have xbox music and I totally agree to that but since you have spotify as a cross-platform solution you expect it to be there on Windows Phone 8 that's the thing right now I'm not saying this is totally just me beefing right this isn't no i agree with you i see your point yeah and but but it's it's specific to me because of course we work in this field and we're changing phones all the time and the only way i can keep my music with me all the time is via Spotify the only are not the only way but the easiest way right so blah blah blah I'm just looking forward to some of these some more titles coming over but i'm also very pleased that um that windows phone feels like home again but it takes a while you know i think people i think in some kind in some cases it takes longer than a 14-day exchange period to get used to a new platform and that's you gotta put yourself in every scenario you travel a little bit you go concert you go out to do you know it's so many different life scenarios it takes more than often two weeks to experience that exactly and particularly with the use of the camera i had the opportunity to take a great shot i wrote a piece yesterday called three features than the Lumia 920's camera needs right now and I in it I posted this shot from the ferry boat that is of this beautiful sunset of another ferry crossing in front of the sunset it's it's an amazing photo not because I'm full of talent but because the Lumia 920's camera really is beautiful but both combined uh-huh well thank you but it's you know it's disappointing in that it doesn't have some basic stuff that other cameras have like HDR like burst shot and and stuff and that's kind of what I was complaining about yesterday and I'm looking forward to that update and you can go on forever about how it's not really a pure view and I've been disappointed with it in in situations where there's too much light because it tends to overexpose but the quick question Michael yeah you be satisfied if the Lumia 920 sported the exact same imaging capabilities of the 808 PureView if that happened I would I would never carry another phone I don't even with the hump Oh especially with the hump I don't care about the hump I think the 808 PureView handling yours your 808 PureView Joe leave I don't do that what was your handling your 808 PureView was really very surprising because I did not expect to like that phone and I did like it a lot and the hump makes it users if you listen errs if you haven't used it it's it's a very thick phone it's a very beefy device feels like a bar of soap in the hand but God so beautiful with that polycarbonate in the eye no lectures it creates another I was hoping for some semblance of that picture quality on the Lumia 920 and it's not there but I think with a little bit of software tweaks it can get closer to that it's just that um you know with all this optical stabilization my primary beef has been if you use the shutter button to take a shot you know how that creates a momentary tremble in the camera this kind of happens with all count all phones which we have with shutter buttons well it does that on the 922 and I'm like why are you doing that if you have this like unique one-of-a-kind optical image stabilization why am i still getting the shutter but here's a question job related to this many many many phones and many cameras applied these types of effects or countermeasures when you press the shutter button halfway down and focus did you try it like that oh I always have press to focus first yeah and still and still yeah yeah and you know it's just like I say it's not unique to the 920 every every camera phone does this when you have to use the button but anyway you know I think I'm trying to use this as kind of a jump in to talk about very briefly how nokia has lost i'm gonna try and pronounce it properly Damien dinning is that correct he was the guy behind behind PureView or I guess he was the one who was that he was the company's lead program manager of imaging experience he's the brains behind period which and Enys he's leaving and I think the question is tenure at nokia is up at the end of november was the word from stevens story a couple days ago he's member the company for nine years and misty as Steven puts that there's definitely a bit of uncertainty in the air as a direct result of his forthcoming absence I am this this concerns me a little bit because one of the big things that nokia has going for it is is it's you know differentiating factor is its camera expertise you know and I don't think that they're gonna lose that overnight I mean certainly people leave companies all the time and it's fine but it just gives me a little bit of pause you know because I feel like pure view is going to be a crucial part of their efforts going forward and I hope that they I hope that he's not leaving because of some nefarious you know reason I don't know well yeah I totally respect Damien because of all the reasons we know about and I don't want to minimize his his knowledge impact or anything else but i think nokia has what is necessary to continue on on this road on which on this path in fact if I met Mei on which they started off with damien or without him I mean they know exactly where they want to be they have actually the spear of you which is in the 808 from what I've understood is a project which has been in development for like three or four years before it got to the market so i think they are covered for the next couple of years i hope so um I I want to jump to our final Windows Phone or Windows story because I know Brandon over there is just it's got to be like taking notes at this point about how he wants to dive into this DN a discussion do you have notes and I was taking them yeah camera handy I camo and just oh and oh and speaking of yeah we are our you know perennial reminder no we're not going to do a video podcast anytime soon sorry oh because guys uh I just I podcast naked eye and I know yeah weird but I feel more free that way I can express in the pocket now no pants our no pants I think in the next level though all right I'm a Microsoft has announced that they are gonna support the surface RT until from how long except in Nebraska Nebraska they're gonna support the surface RT officially until april eleventh 2017 Pete so people are at the store and they're like listen dude I'm only gonna buy this thing if I'm gonna have support until 2017 right but if you tell me it's gonna have support I will buy it I don't you know I'm like I'm fascinated by this right because we're not even talking about the surface pro we're not even talking about their like the thing that is a closer analog to up to a pc that might have you know usability beyond can you imagine using this product in four years yes but i think we are reading more into this than then it's necessary and i think this is a common thing with with people when they read this story yeah it's just like let me make a an analog example with windows XP I mean there were and I think they're know there were updates to windows XP up until a certain point but support for windows XP doesn't mean that you will get Windows Vista so supporting the surface RT until 2017 will mean that if there are problems along the way Microsoft will fix them but this doesn't mean that the surface RT will run Windows 9rt know and I think I think you're absolutely right and of course we've seen how Microsoft feels about supporting older products I mean you know with everyone who's about to get windows phone 7.8 on their Lumia 900 understands you know what what the deal is with that but it's like I just can't imagine using an eye a first-generation iPad in 2014 because that's that's the analog here right I mean that's four years after its launch can you imagine using a first-generation iPad now with its current software load I mean my mother uses it and she's like why are the apps just closing and I'm like well it's because it's it's it's crappily supported on the newest software so I don't you know I don't know it scares me to think that that a product like that any product in this field is going to be officially supported I'm making air quotes for four years yeah they'll probably release some internet explorer bug fixes security patches and stuff like that probably firmer updates for performance improvements battery life and blue improvements probably service backs to the office but that's as far as it can go and this is my prediction yeah and I feel like I'm my tone is crappy because I'm not I don't mean to say this is a bad thing I'm just saying it's it's it's rather unusual all right maybe it's not even unusual it's just strange it just hits the ear strange because the surface RT to me doesn't seem to be a product that that will have an endurance I don't see a lot of people having a surface RT in four years beginning with and Michael you're you're getting the surface RT did you are you getting it today or tomorrow I am Not sure it is coming to me Brandon and I traitor devices he got the DNA and I'm getting the surface RT so I'm looking forward to receiving it I think it'll probably be tomorrow if you sent it to the way I think you did okay and when you get it you'll notice that the Microsoft logo is almost entirely scratched off on the back that's not because I was very frustrated with it it's because there's a defect oh well why don't we exchange it we should I mean it should be covered it's wrong yes this problem popped up with anybody else or is this a defect in our unit I don't know if there's a microsoft store around here maybe i'll take it in and see if they can do something this one around me i covered the buffers ones opening a true for now i am very very curious and maybe this time next week you talk about your impressions and i'm curious leapster different of mine I just weren't very favorable yes I yes and Anna speaking of Brandon minima not being favorable on things and I don't I don't mean to say that that is an unjustified position then actually you were very fair with the nexus 4 let's jump into Android and because brandon has earned approximately six million talking credits as a result of being pretty silent for about 10 minutes i'm gonna say would you like to talk about the nexus 4 first or we should like to talk about the DNA first so i feel like you're amped on one of them uh well i don't think there's much to talk about the nexus for the reviews let last time I gave 10 reasons why I really am disappointed with the nexus 4 I mean it's a good phone and I in the final review is up on pocket now you can go and read all the impressions lots of comparison videos nah man and i give it a seven out of ten and a lot of people are upset with it and and some people were saying you know you know oh the build quality you know how can you say it's bad and then and I reply Oh have you held it and they're like no I proved it along I'm like hold it into the comeback and and and tell me what you think about the build quality on the on the the nexus 4 cuz it's not as it's it's it's not super great yeah you know and it does look beautiful on film I watched your review video this morning and that you do have a couple shots there where you managed to catch the light right with the back and all those that that stippled interesting blue sci-fi kind of paint job under the gorilla glass back there it's oh so cool I I had a fit the other day I almost ordered like I almost just had a pre-order explosion on Google I was like I did I almost went on google.com / nexus and just ordered my own Nexus 10 and Nexus 4 because I was i think is that was part of my transition of Windows Phone 8 I was having a an allergic reaction and it was like hell yeah I was having withdrawal symptoms from stock Android like get me back get me back to what I would I know and love and give me a wireless charging orb but speaking of the pre-order experience so the first round of pre-orders fix that first pre-order experience was terrible was abysmal where people would have a shopping cart and then items would disappear and then it would say no we have them and then yes we do and then some people got the orders through and some people got the late and then finally google said alright alright we're going to make it available again and this was a few days ago and so now the button from notify me changed to add to cart and and like normal human beings they changed it to say okay you can order it now but it's not gonna ship for two to three weeks or something but then people were still having problems they'd added to the car it would say this product is not available so they screwed up a second time I can I don't I cannot believe it yeah Stephen shank has an interesting story about an alternative viewpoint about the whole Nexus pre-order fiasco and actual ease got a couple in there you should read it's a pretty pretty cool piece and well-thought-out piece from Stephens like could some of this have been tactical could some of it I mean some of it was clearly is clearly going wrong but is it is it exactly the way we're seeing it and I can't encapsulate all of his his story but you should go read it listeners not you guys I assume you guys have read it but go on it so the nexus 4 review is up I watched it this morning and then there was also a comparison as you mentioned the nexus 4 versus the Troy DNA which I started watching and then we had to podcast so I didn't finish that video sorry darlin no let's let's quit I think I think the most interesting want to watch is the Galaxy Nexus versus the nexus 4 because yeah expect the expectation is that you know with the s4 pro stock Android in the latest and greatest that the nexus 4 would be significantly faster then then the Galaxy Nexus and while it is faster and while it probably is the fastest android device out there it's not faster by that much it opens apps about point five seconds faster and as we know faster is faster uh and and it boots up faster it's it's about on par in terms of web browsing speed which is just silly because it's got such a powerful processor the nexus 4 if it had the stock android browser there's no doubt in my mind that it would it would blow away the Galaxy Nexus but that chrome thing man I I just can't get over that and that Chrome browser I'm in mind already here I mean Brandon obviously doesn't necessarily like the nexus for Michaels indifferent towards it and I I think I'm the only one who likes the nexus 4 maybe that's because I have a sweet spot for for LG I've always had and I've always was the one giving them chances when everybody broke them off because of that build quality bad support and so on and so forth I'm just pretty pretty pretty upset that it's not yet available in my region and not even close to our region and this is something which which Google needs to address real quick i'm not saying open a google play store for Romania I'm saying find some partners deal with e Taylor's put the phones out in shops because I'm sure seventy two percent market share for android is good but I'm pretty also sure that they wouldn't mind at least a couple of percentages in addition yeah it'll happen I think they're having production issues which is why you know the the whole pre-order thing happened in the first place and by the way I don't dislike the nexus for Tony I just I'm disappointed with it and I think people's expectations expected more up to check I I expected more exactly hmm the hint word for the sonos giveaway is frequency well you have you've had the DNA now for a couple days how does it compare I mean how do you and we know how we can watch the video to see how it compares obviously but what's feel like you will have more favorable things to say about the DNA and I think I think that's gonna be display centric tell me if I'm wrong on either of those yeah you know I I kind of want to do a slow clap for HTC here for the lot for the last two years I've been pretty disappointed with eight what HTC has brought to the table but this is truly different and i should say i've been using it over AT&T actually for the last i got it on on monday and it's what is it today what's Wednesday I've been using it for about 48 hours and it works fine over 80 which is really funny yeah it's all you have to do is add an APN setting to make it work over hspa+ and it's just it's just fine and dandy over AT&T um awesome go ahead I'm sorry I'm just blown away I mean that's yeah it's really funny um HTC did some really crazy awesome things and it's really this one of the stories where it's it's a sum of its of its parts the hardware is beautiful its its salt it's like that is you pick it up and you're like this is an HTC this is what they do they make good hardware they did some amazing details on the sides in the top and it feels good in the hand and as you like to point out Michael it's not a phablet it's a phone and it feels like a tall phone you know I'm totally totally and and then you turn it on and you see sense and you roll your eyes for a second and then you notice that there's the screen there's something different up sweets it's it's more crisp and clear and it's not like a knock your socks off thing in fact i was talking to Tony about this and I compared it to going if you have a win a tense yeah one to ten scale going from wvga devices of like two years ago to 720p was going from like a three to a 6 like it was a pretty dramatic upgrade yeah going from 720p to 1080p is from is like going from a six to a 7.5 if that makes sense yeah I'd say like a six to eight but but yeah I think you're right it's not as dramatic it's not as notable and increase but it all depends on your expectations if you come to the device like i did with like this this attitude of like 1080p screens on a smartphone what are you trying to pull on us industry you know and then you look at it and it you actually lay eyes on it is actually beautiful it is notice noticeably better it well then your whole thing is like well this phone has changed my life you know for a minute right and so and so so i was i was looking for some ways that the 1080p would change the experience but before I get to that so so I turn it on I'm like this the screens pretty darn good and then I see HTC Sense and i moan a little bit inside because the last time I had an extended had an extended experience with sense was with the One X and the one x+ and both of those devices with that silly crappy slow Tegra 3 cpu is laggy and it makes it makes the perception of sense even worse because you're like opening one of those folders that sense has which don't look like stock Android they're kind of more rounded edges and they have like a visual style and it's choppy and you're like this sense thing it's it sucks but on the on the droid DNA with the s4 pro and the two gigs of ram sense is very responsive as you point out in your review Michael and I totally agree and interestingly you're talking about a comparison with the nexus 4 and the the DNA they both have very similar hardware they the s4 pro they have two gigs of ram but in true if you boot up both from from a dead from a cold state yeah from a cold state and then you run a certain amount of apps then you check the amount of available ram with them running the exact same apps in the background and I did this test on the video on the on the Nexus 4 you're using only twenty-five percent of your RAM which is one point five gigabytes usable on the DNA you're using fifty percent twice as much sense is using twice as much RAM as a device with no interface so sense is still heavy sense is still bloated but that's besides the point that the DNA can handle I think the blood of interface yeah and that's the question right like I mean if it does not noticeable to the end user does it really matter I don't I don't think it does but I think just for illustrative purposes it's interesting it is very interesting yes no I agree I agree I think it's an interesting piece of investigative work you did go ahead so so I set up the phone i had my contacts i had my email and i use it and i and and you know it's it's a it's a darn good experience it's all all through and through and in fact when this this device as the DLX or whatever is released on ATT which I know it will be it'll be different a little bit sure but the 1080p HTC thing with the s4 pro two gigabytes rim and it's got LTE on on my home carrier 8018 TI might use it as my daily driver I mean it's just such a it's just it's a good phone and so then there's this question of the 1080p screen and it the DNA undoubtedly has a really really good screen but where it shines is in three places that I found number one web browsing because you can if you have Superman vision a really good vision you can read tiny almost one point size text from the complete zoomed out view and those of you with like a galaxy s3 you'll say well I can do that too and you're right you can do that but I actually did this experiment I took the galaxy s3 and the droid DNA and loaded pocket now and tried to read the text from the zoomed out view and on the DNA it was just very precise the text you could read it on the galaxy s3 it was a little bit more of a struggle so so there's so there's that you can read really small text if you have to hit the eyesight number two interestingly and maybe you notice this Michael when you open the camera app and you've got the viewfinder thing going and you're kind of moving the camera around your environment the screen is so sharp and clear that for a second you almost think that you're looking through a piece of glass you know what I mean yes I do know what you mean absolutely and and part of that is an antonio you haven't seen this so I'm sorry that that you you can't have seen this yet but when it when it's next to a device with a different kind of display like like the AMOLED panels on the galaxy note 2 or the galaxy s3 the color the authentic color reproduction is amazing on the slc d3 panel of the DNA and I think that lens that that lends something to that camera experience you're talking about Brad's looks like you're holding this yeah because the code reproduction is amazing I I didn't I didn't think of that so yeah yeah when you're using galaxy s3 and you're using the view finder thing in the camera app you're like oh wow this this blue statue looks like fluorescent blue it's kind of fun right but it's not real life but on the on the slc d3 it's just so much more true to life yeah so so that's a second thing that's a really cool effect if you can go to a verizon store listeners check that out just like hold the camera up to something it's kind of fun the third thing that i noticed about the 1080p screen being different is that just looking at photos kind of like on the ipad 3 and 4 we're like the native view is almost the full resolution photo it's it's a similar kind of thing on the droid DNA and like the clarity you get without zooming in is just remarkable its beauty its beautiful mm-hmm um the my buddy of mine lost his droid bionic in a cab the other day and he's just hacked that thing to pieces and as he's always just going crazy on custom roms and I'll you know he's he loved that thing cuz it was a powerhouse that he could tweak but he lost it so he's asking me what what he's would he should buy and you know of course we who reads pocket now all the time and he's like how about that I'm torn between that DNA and the razr maxx buddy and I'm like well you know what do you need and you know this is a guy and I am going somewhere with this this is a guy who's doesn't use a lot of storage who doesn't need a lot of storage and who isn't frequently far away from a power outlet and you know likes likes good build quality and as long as the bootloader is unlockable he's okay so and they've done that for the day night so I'm like wow you are the perfect customer to consider the droid DNA because those are the shortcomings right storage and battery life right and they're kind of for me unless you really hate sense they're the only shortcomings because it's such an amazing piece of technology I love love that phone and and when you when you get when you unlock the bootloader and I can't do it on this tester unit because I've got to set a bit send it back I can't wait to load like cyanogenmod 10 on this puppy and go crazy with like the lightest version of Android possible on this crazy awesome screen it's gonna be it's gonna be the hot stuff that's just to conclude some thoughts about the DNA I'm trying to think of downsides and the main downside is that the screen is so tall and you point this out in your review Michael reaching for the power button is a two-hand affair getting this unless you're that you're willing to like shimmy it down a little bit um that said you typing with one hand is actually possible it's not that wide like a note to where you you know you're really strict although the note 2 has a keyboard that can kind of go to the side right umm so so one-handed usability isn't ideal here if you've got small chance you might not like the DNA but like that this I I I am really happy with what HTC is doing here and I think you know this is gonna be there thing for the next I think three four five months is 1080p s4 pro two gigabytes of RAM it's gonna come out in a variety of form factors I'm just I a slow slow clap all around and im so that's it completely agree yeah you know I'm glad that you got some time with it before we had to send it back and I'm actually thanks to a public thanks to our friends at verizon HTC and everyone who support them for forgiving it to us for a little bit longer so we could do that but it's not going to be the only one on the the only 1080p panel on the market for long obviously we're seeing a very very pronounced trend that that 1080p is going to be the new standard for flagship displays and since you have a soft spot in your heart for them Tony would you like to to talk a little bit about the rumored LG optimus g2 I think I think we'll probably see this not at CES but a 10 double see and you'd better bring a droid DNA yeah DNA with you so that we can make some comparisons yeah i'm not sure what to expect exactly from LG and that in terms of where they're headed the optimus G was a point where where HTC has shifted something within their design within their bill tuality and everything LJ you mean LG optimus G with with you I said I'm sorry so LG shifted with the optimus G if they keep on going with the same trend and deliver a phone which which would make us speak highly of it just like we do with the droid DNA I think they have a chance of getting back in the market but if the optimus G will be the only thing which will be buzz-worthy on the g2 orgy whatever G 1080p which will come out next year will not deliver I think that that's gonna be a chance blown you know and I think you're right and I but I have some strange faith in LG right now for some reason cuz I the optimus G really rattled my whole sense of how that company performs and how it does things and like it's like wow you you guys sent me an optimist g and I thought well alright i'll review it and we'll see how it goes and then it really blew me away and i think that's that's really heartening to to you know see and i think if they will bring the heat with did with the g2 and it's supposed to step up to a better processor they this for prime yes for the crime tell me about that please it's they just hit my desk it's a branded so did you drenna just flip the table it's the s4 prime i think is the notch above the s4 pro right Tony on this yeah it's two gigahertz processor probably yeah yeah oh my gosh this has got to enter our vocabulary now yeah I bet the galaxy s4 will have something like that in an axial form but just getting back a little bit to LG I think similarly to Samsung LG has everything they need to have in order to deliver I mean LG's screen technology is excellent they are suppliers for Apple em and we know that Apple is very picky when it comes to screens they have excellent divisions which are working on batteries and the optimus G is an example for that so they if they manage to collaborate all of their divisions to work together just like click with the optimus G on this new phone I think we'll have three big players next year and it will not be a samsung let's save dominated market there will be Samsung HTC and LG fighting for that spot yeah I should have I should follow up and say that the s4 prime is actually for devices like televisions they it doesn't have a modem maybe it's a different prime or something it's just rumors at the moment the key takeaway here I think is that they cannot out a product on the market next March with the same Snapdragon s4 bro like we see today so there's gotta be something after the s4 bro well if it's the prime or the optimist or other transformer it should be summer close to 2 gigahertz because that's where we're headed at well this this might be apples to oranges but you know they did we did see that the earlier this is a Qualcomm Snapdragon s4 not the pro we saw that that chip make the rounds for quite a long time I feel like I mean that was you know there were devices being announced for that with that powered by that chip firm well I bro that is true but right don't forget the the new XE notes inside the galaxy s4 will step up the game again Wilson they will just need to catch up to play catch up again its just oh deja vu all the way we had the galaxy s2 with the Tegra then we had the galaxy s3 with the Tegra 3 and yes for bro then there's gonna be two galaxy s4 and there's gonna be a response from Qualcomm and NVIDIA i love that we're talking about the galaxy s3 already with a guy feel for ya that one yeah it's going well it's not too far when was the the three announce third of me i was in london third or second favor yeah yeah right so so that means by februari we should have picture all specifications and so forth um but yeah I don't know you know I'm so it's so difficult for me to get excited about about new Samsung hardware but you know and that's funny because I'm I guess I'm the one who always gets accused in the comments of being the Samsung fanboy on the team but suit because I'm like buried and Samsung hardware over here but it's like I still I've never fallen in love with the galaxy s3's build I love a lot of things it does but I whatever what we'll see what the four brings I hope they don't I hope they don't do fake metal you know fake metallic plastic no cuz that wouldn't play well with bendable screens yeah the bendable string thing well speaking of will close out Android with with one more samsung bit it's samsung is is is is not just doing bendable screens they're doing weirdo form factors well I'm feeling 20 years old again I love this thing Samsung has revealed a dual screen quad-core android flip phone now these are not you know this is not unique I mean there are some Android flip phones out there and of course usually there for China or four markets who stare Japan or markets are really like flip phone still in a jam yeah in Asia yeah and this one is is one of them it is the schw 2013 which just rolls right off the tongue and it keeps the basic design of the w 999 Stephen shank says so it's basically listeners it's a flip phone that runs android and when it's closed i love this design when it's closed it has a big old screen on the outside and then under the screen of the home buttons like when it's closed it looks like a small android candy bar phone then you open it up and as a screen of exactly the same size on the inside and then it's kind of numeric keypad which you know I I would love to just send a couple texts on an Android device with the numeric I will trade my ass wait for this one what really actually I don't love this form factor me too i really miss flip phones we've actually written a piece i wrote a piece for pocket out called i really miss flip phone um we grew up on this we did I mean this is maybe the fusion style trip you know before I finished reading the story i was like i'm buying one and then i got to the bottom of the story whoa no we have yet to confirm the 2013's price it's expected to be somewhere around the three thousand dollar mark oh yeah get out of my face I mean like and then the stance nah this is very this is going to be carried by by a very special set of folks who have a lot of disposable income go ahead Brendan hey having a fun fact mmm-hmm fun fact / pro tip the so you just talked about this t nine pad Michael did you know that on all HTC Sense devices you can toggle between a regular full-size qwerty a t9 pad and a shirt tight blackberry style keyboard yes I did not know about the short type one but yes I knew you could toggle it to a numeric one that's thanks to sense right right yeah and who would use that I mean just tapping the the two key to get a see three times I'll tell you no no it's got t nine so you don't actually have yeah but I don't use that because I'm testing in three languages every day right what most most other people those people speak one language and like it's for example you take like a teen and you ever see a teenager or even one of us from your younger on a numeric keypad we get texts all day you know no thumb cramps really absolutely so so you get you get one of those guys you know to go to a smartphone you're like hey here's your thumb thingy back and I'll yes no what would also like practically it's a very good thing for one-handed use oh yeah one hero typing on a full qwerty is just the biggest pain in the butt in history but one handed typing on t nine is like out whatever you know I'm used to this yeah I when I used to judge phones back in the flip phone days I'm like how awesome physical key feedback on the keypad and because that was huge like if you were texting a lot you needed a keypad that was gonna give you solid feedback my favorite one was the 870 from Motorola which was on nextel which no none of you used so never mind just to wrap up some quick iOS stuff I feel like iOS has been we haven't been intentionally neglecting it on the podcast just there hasn't been a lot of news there's a lot of news about component apple chief fighting Samsung about components and Samsung's not gonna give them batteries anymore and it's like I can't nothing nothing would interest me that again on that exact note today there's another rumor I see another because there were like 375 in the past few weeks of Apple again allegedly ditching Samsung as their main primary chip provider so that's just another rumor to go into the ark category and into the drawer yeah which which should surprise precisely no one I mean these companies are in direct competition and and you know if you you can't compete effectively with somebody or you can try but you can't really compete effectively with somebody who is in the consumer market who is giving you parts for your competing product like me you can do it it's complicated its wits whatever I don't know I don't run a corporation so what the hell do I know but the point is iOS is once again number one in the United States following I believe Tony a giant black friday push right no actually this thing this survey was a 12-week survey and it is up until October 28 so it doesn't even have to anything to do with November really yeah and i'm waiting for numbers after black friday but it's this is just normal Apple and Samsung are exchanging first spots depending on who releases the phone and when when the galaxy s3 has been released and he was carriers everybody went the android galaxy s freeway and Apple's iPhone just fell now with the apple iphone 5 everybody's buying the iphone 5 and i expect these two if you look at those two lines in the graph they're continuously intersecting and they will intersect again next year when the galaxy s4 will come and it will go on like that the interesting thing is that it's not only about the galaxy s free but it's Android so we're talking about one phone by one manufacturer against all other phones running android and this is something which is worth mentioning what what's interesting is is that i'm looking at the graph right now and the rim line is of course you know barreling into the basement but it has a very definite decline at the exact same time the iOS line sky rockets well that's six percent it's a six percent turned from blackberry to the iphone 5 and thirteen percent from from android to iphone 5 interesting early on and the windows phone has a little little bit better that worries me yeah that really worries very concerning yeah we'll have to see how there's all these things go go in the future it's interesting like I think that that's the most compelling thing and it's a shame because I think this is one of those things that were if we did have a video podcast we could throw this up or if we had more time to cut it together we could throw this up on the thing cuz you should check this out normally I'm not a stats man but you want to look at this story called Apple's iOS once again number one in the u.s. from from Tony from November 27th because if you just look at this graph it's if you're a visual person that's a really cool indicator of the health of these of all these platforms and when you actually look at Windows Phone down there like its mustard color down there between the 0 and the 10 it's really interesting compared to these big to the to the green and red iOS and Android fighting up top but there's also something i would like to just touch it bagus iOS related and it's not on the schedule it's about Apple and after the entire executive changes with which were at I think the end of last month we are now hearing some new reports that senior vice president Eddy Cue has fired Richard Williamson exactly because of the iOS 6 maps fiasco so the fiasco is is going on is continuing the in continuously going and increasing it just started off at the top of the mountain and it just became becoming something huge by the time it reaches the bottom I think when Tim Cook said that they are committed to working nonstop until they fix the maps and deliver on the experience I think this is part of it I mean either people who don't see eye to eye with the direction or with the experience or with anything all right either you do it this way and we fix it or you're fired and they just keep on firing executives regardless of how high they are their ranking within the company right this is simply a nurse and of course we're in the situation I think we mentioned last time where Apple's between a rock and a hard place there I OS maps is going to be released and if they don't approve it they're going to get really bad press and if they do accept it or let it into the store there's going to be huge migration away from Apple maps and so though either way they kind of lose right with the whole maps think so right yeah I don't know yeah and and Tony thank you for bring that i didn't put in the rundown because i figured that if if we were gonna have to talk about apple and maps again I was gonna like blow my head off but no it will keep on talking about it until they fix it it no it's no you're absolutely right and it's it's it's a shame I'm interested to see how Nokia here now that mapping software keeps keeps doing I'm I think at this point I'm just counting down the days until google gets a kid some maps app in the store because I think it I think it will be in there that'll be fun to use if that does become the case we are going to have not to over promise here but I think we are going to have another story on in our lost at home series right Tony are we gonna get somebody else out there with using using apple maps to compare against the other platforms hopefully yes yeah I have no idea what you're talking about it yes make it HAP awesome hey gentlemen I I had a hard stop at eleven-forty-five so I have to bounce off the good guys keep going and oh sounds good man well we will we will miss you in your absence we will try and keep the snarky remarks to a minimum but you can you can listen to the podcast anytime after and let's say two hours from now sounds good anyway our hit man we will like it we'll see you later Brandon right ciao so Michael just answer your question we were talking about nakia here and how well it was doing I wrote a piece that 24 hours before a 24 hours be after it's gotten released it was on the fifth spot well right now I cannot find it in the top five it's no longer in the top five no so I'm looking at the exact same link i used up free iPhone apps and I just keep looking at the list right now and i cannot find not here here anywhere wow wow i just keep on scrolling yeah we'll see how it we'll see how that pans out the there's going to be more more iphone users to take it because this is our does our final iOS story before we get to the mail call because we are going to do mail we've teases of cool listener mail today and that's that's fun but very briefly AT&T in the United States is one of these carriers that offers refurbs these refurbished phones which are not not brand new they've been factory refreshed and then they're repackaged and resold for for a for a discount and this was a story this was your story Tony from yeah November 23rd they're offering the iphone 5 as a refurb for 9999 on a contract for the 16 gig version of what is what is that a savings I was that a hundred dollars off that is indeed and it's not even that it's the fact that whenever you go and try to purchase an apple iphone 5 off of apples online store or anywhere else you will need to wait still for two weeks and with the refurbs the waiting time is lower so yeah and the price of course the iPhone 5 is the last generation iphone you can get the latest generation iphone for a great price and if i understood well there's also warranty so you're all set i I think you're I think you're right yeah which is crazy now I want to talk about this in detail on a future show because the whole refurb question is endlessly fascinating to me we never sold it when i was at sprint back in ages ago we never sold refurbs in the in the official retail stores but you know we could get them for we used them for service and repair replacements and you know I I hate to say it but the failure rate on those in my experience was was higher like it was supposed you know in the whole party line is that you know no it's a want to take refurbs so you just reassure them it's like no this is a it's better than brand new it's been sent back to the factory it's been real it has is this kind of like retail salesman BS but but it never turned out that way I saw more people come back with defective refurbs than I did with defective brand new hardware that is interesting yeah it also has probably something to do with the psychology of the consumer because some say I will probably not use a phone which was it's basically a second hand even if they so sold it like a new phone but there are those people just like like me for instance I would prefer a refurbished phone if of course the outer aspect would be exceptional I know that this was used this has been fixed and is covered by the same warranty as a brand new phone so I'm gonna buy it for probably fifty percent less sure and you get our money savings in it and if it's not you know if it's gonna be a device that you're gonna like beat around and like if it's going to be a kind of a toy a hobby device yeah I'm with you if I'm buying a daily driver and this is why I think unboxing videos are a thing this is why you know packaging video Rebecca Ching review videos or a thing because it's special it's a special experience to take your new device out of the box for the first time in to peel off that screen protector which I love doing on videos you know but you know I it is it's very very it's very special to do that with something that is presumably going to be with you for you know a year or two if you're if you have exceptional endurance yeah you know so anyway but that's if you're into iPhone refurbs get your butt over to AT&T if you're an American shall we shall we do the mail call Tony yes please awesome well we have two pieces of listener mail today both from listeners who have written in before thank you again thanks to all who wrote him this is from the whim in the Netherlands who says it used to be that Blackberry it was the platform of choice for corporate and governmental use because the secure messaging and IT management tooling now with the demise of the glory of blackberry people could move to Windows Phone 8 he suggests it offers exchange push mail and some IT management tooling as well as corporate marketplace how does this match to the other platforms our Android and iOS equal matches or maybe even better for corporate use regards and thanks for all the good work the wim wim thank you for the message ah we've we've heard some rumors over here in the states about Android being used kind of thinking the government agencies thinking about or actually implementing Android devices on a massive scale which is weird because I think the problem the problem with Android has always been presented as a security right because Cassandra is really is is the most open OS of it's not an open OS I'd like it proclaims itself to be but you know whatever so Android is not huge at least in America for corporate use and but iOS certainly is and I think the Tony talked to talk about this because this corporate stuff I'm not very good at first level I would like to hit make just a correction i'm just looking at a november 27 press release which happened to be just yesterday and it goes like this Apple's iPhone and smartphones running Google's Android will outgun research in motion's blackberry for the first time in twenty twelve in the enterprise device market according to IDC so they are still there they are still number one second thing of note is that of course both Android and iOS support luckily exchange and all the tools necessary for a phone to be used as a corporate phone within an enterprise the question is and this is a great question with research emotions all the black barbie es and all other platforms we were used to having an IT department who would manage all devices within that network now since blackberry is falling and Microsoft is not really gaining momentum blackberry made a smart move they implemented and they released rims mobile fusion will this mobile fusion thing a lot is basically these IT departments to continue to manage enterprise phones and rims mobile fusion only works with Apple's iOS and Google's Android so windows phone is not even on the list aah and that's what brutal for them because Windows Phone wanted to steal market share from from rest it was their whole thing I'm not an analyst by any means but I know that there are two types of corporate phones usually those films which are handed out to two workers from the company and there are those phones which which they're called bring them in or something like that they are normal users let's say I have a phone I work for a company and bring in my phone to the company and that becomes a company phone so Windows Phone can become a company phone I'm not sure if they will because exactly this because of the tools which allow those IT departments to manage phones within the company right yeah you know I think that damn unless unless Windows Phone finds a way to do as you're suggesting and to kind of you know come at it from the bottom like that I I see Android and iOS kind of extending their dominance of their consumer space into the enterprise space which is which is strange because if you come to think of it microsoft owns exchange so the exchange is the go-to resource for enterprises it has shared contacts collaboration tools emails and everything and since it's a Microsoft product you would expect microsoft windows phones to be the go-to resource as far as hardware is concerned and of course Microsoft power tablets right but sadly sadly Microsoft would there to point something market share and trying to figure a board meeting where the IT department comes up to to the board members and suggests platforms for for future use within the company and I'm trying to think about the points he would make in favor of Windows Phone yeah i know i can't i can't envision it you know i will have to see how it actually plays out and this is so far afield from my area of expertise because like the last time I actually used exchange i think was speaking of my time it's brent was back then again this is like 2007 when i left surrender 2008 and since then in the intervening four years I mean we might use I don't know if we use exchange for anything if anybody on our team uses exchange but I do Brandon uses so we have exchanged on the team yeah i dont i I've been in Google Apps for 44 years I've been in you know my personal gmail anyway we're getting well don't forget that also offerings from google especially gmail and offerings the free offerings from microsoft the hotmail which is now outlook.com have a certain exchange to them I mean they support push notifications they act sim larly and you can set them up as an exchange account sure but it doesn't have all the collaboration tools the shearing tools which which exchange has exactly or yeah we have one more piece of from ryan field from California Ryan hello again hey guys huge fan of the show thank you I have a quick question and a comment directed at Anton Antonio popular am I the popular one yes Tony I'm actually that the comment for you is very long so I'm gonna leave that I'm just gonna let you read that yeah and actually Ryan says if you don't read this on the air at least let them see it it's about the samsung add push for the galaxy s3 ooh but it so my question that here's an instron question is should i buy a nexus 10 i'm currently using an HP TouchPad hopping back and forth between cm9 and webos way to go right android works at a media hooker level while webos is about as useful as Michaels webos toaster fantasy don't you see solve the toaster toaster is sacred dude as long as it was gonna say damn so I'm really curious washer just like the webos to refrigerator so I'm really curious about the nexus 10 and with Christmas right around the corner now is as good a time as any to shop Ryan that's a very good point and if you're looking for a 10 inch device it sounds like Ryan as you know is firmly decided on this kind of 10 inch thing I have my recommendation than a Tony I think you can give yours my thing is this if you need a 10 inch tablet and it sounds a little Brian like you like you want to stick with Android we don't have our full review of the nexus 10 up yet Joe Levi is well have it probably by the time this podcast goes light right it should be up very soon so you'll want to look at that everyone will want to look at that because Joe Levi makes very soothing videos that are awesome but the thing is I would buy it if I were you Ryan given your situation I only had a very brief hands-on time with it but the enduring my unboxing it felt great in the hand but more importantly it is a Nexus device which means not only that you know it's it's going to run much better than well it might run much better than your cm9 built on a touchpad just because it's more modern hardware and it's running officially supported google stuff but it is also probably going to be a target for eventual porting of open webOS as a nexus product so Ryan even though it's not very useful right now you know if you're able to run in the future if you're able to run open webOS on it it can only improve the it can only add to the value of the device whereas if you were to go for another 10 inch android tablet like something from you know a galaxy tab or a zoom it was ever that's what I was supposed to say I keep on thinking since I heard this question about an alternative android tablet to the google nexus 10 and the note 10.1 is as far as it goes i mean i know their suits acer everybody toshiba out there but i just don't have a feel for them and probably the google nexus 10 because it's a google device and it's made by samsung is the best combo you can get agreed yeah and it's you know and there's something to being part of the the Nexus family and not having it doesn't have it the nexus 10 doesn't have a carrier radio radio and it does it no yeah so there's not that's not gonna come in and mess you up you know it isn't get better from your nexus 4 exactly or you can tether from anything you know whatever i don't know what device you're carrying ryan there but you can probably tell from it if you want you know so yeah absolutely i would i would give the nexus 10 a big thumbs up there like I say watch the review first but it sounds like it's the right choice for somebody like you and that's the thing just to reiterate for everyone who follows us on Twitter and for the guys who kind of everyday send me things like should I buy this or this you know this is such a complicated scenario it is it all depends on your use case it depends on how you use advice what kind of person you are what you need from it you know um 140 characters of Twitter it's just not enough to make those recommendations so I'm sorry it's not it's not that we're ignoring you it's just that we can't make the recommendation we're too busy so um do you Tony do you um have any other thoughts on the Nexus 10 or anything anything we've spoken about before we wrap curious to read the nexus 10 reviews I'm waiting to see the black friday and cyber monday sales numbers just to see how the market share shifted if it shifted how many million units did this one OEM without naming one cell and how many millions did the other one me too yeah i'm looking forward to seeing that debtor did you did you end up getting anything on on black friday and you know my experience here in this part of the world was bad so let's stay with that remain with that and no I did not get anything this black friday because there was no internet in Romania on Black Friday everybody was trying to get something ah that's rough what about cyber monday does that exist over there the that does not and you know it strangely I always thought about black friday as being a day when you will get deals going to the shop physically and cyber monday being a day where you would get deals online yeah well it turns out that not even here not only here in Romania but still in the u.s. to these two things kind of mixed up and you can get deals online on black friday too yeah yeah you can yeah there are a lot of roundups I didn't find anything interesting out there so I didn't bother myself I just went to a to a winery and listen to a sonos sound system which which we're giving away by the way exactly and listeners by this point if you're still with us you have heard the hint word which I have composited in on a separate audio track with a little ding and hopefully you have stuck with us till the end and if you have and you can hear my voice then from Tony and Brandon and me thank you very much for listening to another episode of the the pocket now weekly podcast so let's go ahead and wrap it up shall we let's do it this feel free listeners to throw a tweet our way we've talked about Twitter we've talked about Twitter a lot this podcast actually we are all on Twitter from this show Brandon minimun is at Brandon minimum Tony over there is that Anton d Naja a NT o ND nhe why am i getting any closer to pronouncing your last name correctly no okay fair enough and you can I go I'm you see this is soon i will i will probably say my name to see way you did not yeah okay all right well you can find me michael fisher which is very easy for me to say okay let's cut the order if you were the value oh I knew I heard the fish been at captain two phones as my twitter handle it as Captain the number two phones follow pocket has official Twitter account as well pocketnow tweets is the name there you can also follow us on Facebook and Google Play us and please leave us a review on iTunes or zune if you like the podcast it helps us stay visible and it helps us get the podcast two more ears which makes the podcast last longer overall and thank you for sticking with us this long if you have a topic question suggestion for the podcast or you just want to say hi you can email us at podcast at pocketnow.com thank you everyone for listening good luck in our sonos giveaway and we'll see you next week thank you hi I'm always just petrified that one of these days I'm gonna forget to do to press record that's gonna be fun I know right all right 1321 rather 32 hello and welcome to episode 20 of no no no that's not right I ever supposed to say that these a 32 and then no one so this should be wrong I'm not gonna say one I one is retired one excusing 32 I'm so ruined today okay one more time 32