Gadgetory

following up on a video I produced several months ago talking about technology addiction and my own attempts at adjusting my smartphone behavior by switching my phone screen over into a grayscale black and white mode we got a number of questions from people asking about the actual science behind making a move like that if removing color from a screen really would reduce those dopamine reward hits our brains get whenever we pick up our smartphones taking a look at the science digging deeper to see if there's any research to support this internet hypothesis I figured what better way to examine this question than to drive down to UCLA and have a sit-down conversation with dr. Timothy Fong a psychiatrist in the neurology department of UCLA and he was kind enough to spend some time explaining where we're at in terms of technology research were on the bleeding edge of digital mental health and he shared his thoughts on the effectiveness of my grayscale screen smartphone experiment dr. Baum um thank you so much for joining us this is a topic I've been really excited to follow up on just based on my own experiences tinkering with my own brain um would you do you mind briefly describing some of the research you've been doing here at UCLA absolutely thanks for having me let me turn my phone off notes up it's not that I'm checking Twitter or anything like that why I'm a diction psychiatrist here at UCLA I'm the co-director of our UC a gambling studies program as well as our addiction psychiatry fellowship and clinics at over the last 15 years as I've been seeing patients one of the new things that has evolved is people who call with questions about do I have an addiction to video games gambling and pornography and in the last couple years we've seen more and more people calling say I have trouble regulating my cell phone usage and with that it's things like news aggregation sites it's acting like social media opportunities so and then addiction psychiatrist we've been gathering more clinical information stories about men and women who develop pathological and unhealthy relationships with their phones I call it an addictive sorter we're not quite sure what exactly is going on with their brains and their minds but at the end of the day when they tell us their stories they're struggling with depression sleep deprivation anxiety low self-esteem and the cellphone are making their lives better so that's some of the work that we're doing this is so raw that we're still even trying to find the terminology absolutely absolutely very new leading-edge and if there's something even leading edge about a leading edge of wood would be it so if you have insurance agencies they have a patient with cellphone addiction will you reimburse me for service they'll say no such disease exists gotcha inside our handbook that we diagnose me and women with mental illnesses there is the term internet use disorder okay that's in the appendix it's really talking about using the Internet to play video games not talking about cell phone usage and social media and apps and things like that so much has to be score there are very few research centers I am aware of that are actually looking at the issue of digital health and digital mental health but there will be more and more folks looking at this this is as we see more and more interested in society where we need to figure out what exactly is going on and I think particularly as society says we need to disturb lished some basic guidelines and rules and etiquette or standards or prevention techniques I mean there's not a household in America that doesn't have this conversation turn that phone off okay they can get obvi back right now will you and what's happened in the last five years I notice is not just parents to children now its children saying that the parents children saying to grandparents it's cross generational I think that's a really important thing to talk about don't real quick just to kind of show you what I was working with this is what my phone screen looks like small online is Blaine onion and so um oh yeah he got it out bigger yeah bigger a super American few days but one of the most immediate things that took me by surprise wasn't at all my phone so much more boring yeah it was how little iconography meant to me mm-hmm like swirling circles didn't mean as much as yellow swatch red splotch blue swatch but this is this is how I normally use my phone throughout the day now unless I'm trying to show something off and how long have you done it this way about five months now and it has a cut down on the amount of time you use it down on the kind of wasted time where you start searching and messing around with so I so there's I mean obviously this looks a lot less interesting so if I pull up Instagram black and white is stunning for photography and then someone takes a good color in photo it's going to be a good looking photo in black and white yeah that's the thing where I used to reply to one notification on my phone and then an hour later I'd find myself like deep dive on Twitter right you know this is still in the realm of bro science ya internet song right and I'm not sure whether or not it's because I'm actually willing myself like I have a desire to change my behavior is this really contributing to that desire or is this more of a placebo and it's a reminder to me that I'm you know kind of like rubber bands you out of years alright well go back to the beginning when you did this what was the intent were you saying I need to cut down on like cell phone news or you saying I want a healthier relationship with my phone and it's out definitely the second one you know I'm recently the father of a young child my wife and I just had our first kid and I was looking for I want more meaningful interactions with my gadgets noticing where I'll be on the couch in two hours I've just evaporated right we're up sending on my laptop yeah I go to do one thing and then I have a black outfit right and kind of wake up later having exhausted right so I mean it's interesting because you know I have a similar one and obviously mine all in color what you're talking about is a brand new area of neuroscience psychology psychiatry it's an area that we call digital health or digital mental health if you will for thousands of years we as humans have had relationships with inanimate objects you know actual personal feelings to call it clothes we wear the story we play with everything from from the time we were cavemen no other time in human history I think we've created such a device that has such intense emotional feeling good bad ugly everything in between and I think about my own experiences growing up as a child in the 80s my generation addicts compared to Millennials it's totally different and so as we were reflecting before or you know some of the concerns of our parents growing up with your brains gonna turn to mush you're going to be wasting away your grades are going to go bad or even just like a let concern over using the brain I know you like it I was sitting too close to the TV you know you don't want you know why yeah but it was very concrete spheres what's different now I think is because these are indispensable tools in our lives never going away right and because how fast technology advances and we don't know how to brain respond to those advances in technology we don't know what the next 15 20 years when I look at it from my standpoint as an addiction psychiatrist pretty simple when people's relationship with objects or behaviors or activities goes into the zone of unhealthy harmful destructive that's an addiction when it makes their life better when they have a better quality of life when they do things quicker faster that's not an addiction that's a hobby that's a passion that's increased productivity right that's the difference between someone saying oMG I check my phone all the time I was addicted exactly versus someone who's displaying in your opinion self-destructive behavior exactly so giving example so we saw someone in our clinic last week a you see a student who chief complaint was that I'm on too many social media devices and I can't get anything done well his GPA had really sank his friendships human relationships were very very minimal a lot of time spent on the Internet and he basically said I couldn't stop looking I kept looking for the last page of the Internet right so not exercising Horsley console version craving in a negative way this is not healthy right they're not normative sign what you've done is an interesting tactic is modified behavior to you began to recognize something I don't really like I don't like my life being consumed by an activity right call it drugs alcohol gambling sex video games internet information I'm going to modify it in a way that's going to keep my relationship boundaries of day that hasn't been tested we don't know that words I wanted works for you right is for you for what reason it shuts off the noise I think it probably serves as a clear reminder very quickly this is just a phone right this is just a vessel for information what I'm reminded every interesting Leno is the Sunday newspaper so growing up I remember exactly the exciting thing about a Sunday newspaper was that it was in color and a comics were in color and you actually spent more time going through each thing right kind of what you've done is that you haven't changed the information available with speed of which you can get you change the formatting which not that has made it less interesting but it made it less automatic less reflexive like oh my gosh well what's this what seemingly big so but what you're getting through this is a larger discussion that we're not having as a society about digital etiquette digital health where does it end because what's different is the amount of information you can get on that phone the entire human experience right it's incredible compared to when I was a kid 64k computer nothing exactly we're married I grew up on an old Don backer and so the thing that people are addicted to information just like you think about what are people addicted to when it comes to alcohol or drugs or gambling they're addicted to the process they're addicted to how that behavior makes them feel and they're addicted to the access so it's less the delivery or is the delivery mechanism now why we're starting to see more discussion lab civilly the delivery how fast it is the innovations and novelties those are all what's compelling people would be constantly on the hunt so example you know I see my friends or when I go out with my family I watch people constantly checking and you ask them what's the reason you're checking it so often they can't articulate they say well I don't want to miss anything FOMO you know I don't I feel like you know I need to be part of it I feel like I need to be connected those are not signs of addiction those are signs of false idea what a relationship really is okay as I did I constantly have to be right there in the moment that I'm not part of the leading edge or the most relevant news at the time somehow I'm a and important or somehow I will miss out which means that my life was something I'll be no good right another fascinating story and there's a great story it's worth the time I was in the UCLA gym in a sauna a couple months ago and used to undergrad guys were there you're talking about how they're using Instagram and having that a woman class and he's like oh and she was really great and I got her I invited her on Instagram and she took so long to get back what's up with this girl what does it matter with you and the other guy said hey how long did she get back to you twelve hours so he said twelve hours was too long to run a twitch connection whereas you know when when I was going to college and be like swinger to be like I don't want to call her back for at least two days that's right exactly alright so the idea that we've also created these new rules right aren't written down that in some ways are absolutely not attainable well and you find that it's not even so much that we can create a rule because I know in our coverage recently it's been the rule is this behavior will change when the next hot new app or service comes out and then we kind of throw out you know what Twitter at it was so that we can now talk about snapchat exactly under people are starting to evade some of the communication aspects of Facebook writing to look at more short form and disposable right entertainment or communication my big concern as again as an addiction psychiatrist is that we know that there's going to be a significant number of people in the population we don't know what that number but Kali around 1 to 2 percent where there lies because of cell phone because of Technology will become very very much harm just like the folks when video games came out or when pornography turned into VCRs right anything that could be potentially highly rewarding and it's highly available highly accessible does have the potential to become addictive to some so the questions that we get a lot are from parents to say well how do I manage this for my kids or from kids umbilical how do I manage my parents so I think it goes back to the sim but difficult idea realize that this is still ultimately a utility tool like a screwdriver it's like a vacuum cleaner right it's like a foam it is a motor but we have part of it is been mostly in our lives easier better and more enjoyable and it does for the vast majority of time the battle comes in when you have such constant flow of information is that paradox of choice you have too much to look at and then you end up drifting into dissatisfaction I think that's why some of the academic studies that looked at Facebook users who use way more is they're depressed or anxious yeah they don't sleep well and that's true for in any social media app and that's also true for any video game so what's interesting is that with the bone we can access not just any addiction but the holidays right drugs alcohol gambling hyper sexual behavior all via the phone so the phone is both not only the thing that you become addicted to what's also a vessel that lead you to other addiction I'm glad you brought up just the notion of other addictions being sort of influenced by accessibility is there a component to some mobile addiction or Internet addiction which you know someone might be trying to treat something else going on in their life that may be the tether to their phone isn't necessarily the actual problem there from the self medicate up to it absolutely so again it's the vessels so imagine someone with a gambling problem you just use their phone to access casinos employee bets whereas the ten years ago get too dry for hours in casino now I can do a lot at work and gambled my entire life Satan so the technology is allowed access to that world of addiction so much quicker one of the real challenging parts is and how do you tell patients to get rid of their phones or to limit their access so that they can't have to live the rest of their natural lives so an example I have a patient who you know relies on her phone because she's a traveling salesperson right and she needs maps and calling people but she's also a pathological gambler and she's constantly on the phone placing bets and you know doing this online game so it's a real challenge but what's fascinating would be the way we have our phones right now is not only are they potentially an addictive source they're potentially also the treatment for addiction okay so we have actually several really interesting apps that are in development or things out there right now that brings treatment and recovery into the film so as an example I only do patience you know what's a way to go once a month but the fact that the phone could be your guide your ego if you will with your treatment source your sponsor in some ways to really help manage your your health and behavior that's an amazing thing that's why so many people are using fitness apps and I know things like that in the recovery world of addiction these are now apps are starting to come true so for instance if you go by a bar and the phone will notify you you're too close to alcohol or go today you're not traveling a new city here the meetings that are open available for you the way I think about it we really we haven't studied the untapped potential of cell phone technology and abilities that improve our lives and that is going to be just so quick every every week new thing to coming out right but at the same time we also haven't really studied very well what is doing the first physical nature of our brain and number two what is it doing to our psychological makeup to our minds and how we view people I have an 11 year old we have an 11 year old son and he's in 6th grade a big debate over the last year was shouldn't he get a phone right and my daughter just turned one we're having on the phone oh yeah and rounded my glowing rectangle with the other one wearing which I won all the time and I don't have a good explanation part some may say safety tracking you can participate in social experiences when you don't have a phone people kind of laugh at you yeah I have two phones this and I have an old flip phone every time I bring out the flip phone people laugh at me and they kind of say that's why you interview that and it doesn't feel good right on the flip side exposing a young brain is not fully developed it's just infinite information right stimulating that's confusing that's no idea where it's coming from what does that do to brain development right so think back to why when we were kids again there's a reason why we didn't watch r-rated movies there's a reason we were allowed into adult theaters because we knew information like that before you were mature really warp how you view the world it would warp your morality and your judgments that's what's really fascinating the idea that your daughter can now access really really unbelievable images that you never would ever want her to see in your entire lifetime right and get it pretty easily we love to have NIH or other folks provide funding to study this on a research and level it's just not there yet this is a brand new field inside mental health we're coining digital health digital mental health and I think very very very simply that cell phones offer both incredible promise to help improve our lives but there's also a small part of it I could for those who are genetically vulnerable and psychologically vulnerable really develop a this dark side of addiction behavior are there resources that people can have to start meeting up more if they were wanting to have a conversation with their physician or with their medical team not anything that I would call scientifically credible or scientifically validated I would fold all this under the rubric of just central mental health okay and so my general rule of thumb is if you are struggling with what you believe to do behavior or your loved one is and it's causing stress dismay harm arguments tension and that's worth an issue to talk to mental health professionals on any regardless of what's going on your stress you're not sleeping your mood is low if you're anxious you need to talk to somebody about that to figure out do I have an addiction to cellphone so I have depression during an ADHD do I have just a poor relationship with my family lots of possibilities there so my anecdotal experiences we can kind of firmly put into the bucket of Internet bro science for now there's nothing to really suggest that like it really did tinker with my brain chemistry more than just my own desire to change my behavior I think so as an example what they would be fascinating to image your brain both on cell phones and off cell phones or on certain apps when you're engaging with other apps as you're engaging or very simply in your case taking your phone first in color and contain what happens to your brain inside a brain scanner versus when you're using that stone in grayscale so then you not to be able to see how much damage I've done to my brain by doing if that brain is actually still inside thank you so much David same time I really appreciate you having the conversation with us appreciate it thank you once again I want to thank dr. Fong for taking the time to speak with us this is a topic I think is fascinating as technology rapidly outpaces our society's ability to come up with new etiquette to address these new methods of communication and it should be reiterated that if you feel you have any issues with any kind of addictive behavior that you seek out the advice of a trained medical professional this is absolutely a topic I'll be looking to revisit in the near future and if you've had any experiences that you'd like to share and managing your own internet consumption definitely drop us a comment down below this video as always thanks so much for watching be sure to subscribe to this channel for more informative conversations like these and help us out with some sharing on your favorite social networks for pocket now I'm Juan Carlos bag now so I'm gadget guy on Twitter and Instagram and I will catch you all on the next video