Gadgetory

we'll the iPhone 10 be delayed while project 5 finally get another compatible phone and how long should manufacturers support less expensive devices + TK BAE joins a show this week to help us unpack the Google and HTC partnership announcement we've got a lot to talk about so make sure you're charged and ready for episode 2 7 1 of the pocket noun weekly recorded September 21st at noon pacific time this weekly podcast is where we dissect and discuss those gadgets and make our lives mobile smartphones tablets and wearables I'm Quan Carlos back now senior editor pocket male comm joined as always by plucky podcast producer mr. Jules Wong how's it going out there on the East Coast buddy boy you've been mentioning November for the past couple of weeks well it's a good thing you got that name someone had said something because it was like someone on the show not like a comment all guys yeah we'll both apologize me for being wrong and you for not telling me what's wrong of course joining us live via hangouts it's la-based Agrotech reviewer mr. TK Bay welcome to the show my good friend thank you thank you very much and very happy to be back on the show misty guys you guys have having too much fun without me man got to be back that's true we needed you to come back and help reduce the amount of fun that we pleased I'm gonna try not to choke i'm still working off that stupid cough i'm still from pre Aoife that that congestion that I've been fighting is still going I also want you you know talk about how much I love this polar seltzer over here also social medias we got good discussion going on and on on today's topics so why don't you head on over to Twitter as we are alive and do that hashtag P and weekly and just ask a few questions well we are able to answer them live and if you can't make it if you aren't listening to this they're the post then you can just head on over to your email client and type in podcast at pocketnow.com along with your questions and thoughts and whatever you might have flotsam jetsam and all that hashtag pee and weekly podcast at pocketnow.com many ways to connect we're really good with the flotsam in the jetsam if you haven't noticed both literally and figuratively as I am about to clear my throat once again I'm so so glad that we actually have a bye week on having a sponsor this podcasting for audio strong stood well I want to kick right off I want to jump right in this is the biggest news story of the week the the teases have been coming like crazy a number of rumors speculation about the status of HTC one of our favorite but beleaguered brands and news finally dropped that HTC is partnering with Google we're not looking at an outright acquisition the details of the plan 1.1 billion dollars about half about half of HTC smartphone talent is just going to live over at Google now and this is also going to be a non-exclusive partnership for all of HTC's patent IP and licensing deals so you can still partner with other manufacturers Google can still work with other manufacturers but Google has got a pretty good stake in HTC's talent and IP @ek I just wanted to jump in immediately just your your first reactions when you heard this news like I we were all really confident this was going to be an outright acquisition but HTC is a brand lives on to fight another day they're flush with an extra billion in cash how did you feel what was your reaction when the news actually finally delivered last night I it was a little bit of a mix back for me but that the general feeling it overall was I think this is a natural transition I think they've been working with for a long time and we as a consumer or even reviewer we've seen how HCC's brand been doing and the way they've been performing for the last few years with you know since tea I mean even the ambien at the m10 last year they've they progressed as far as been making better hardware but they're having a hard time getting people to identify them and but their biggest performer has been the pixel from last year the pixel XL I still use it and you know as we know rumored to be the next manufacturer for the next one down the road I think it was a natural you know think of it flaky they've been playing with each other for a while it's finally you know official now they're dating well I mean they're I always want to say they're engaged you know it's like they've been a bit more official you're right they did present the ring that one billion dollar ring 1.1 billion dollar 1.1 billion carats no that's not that's not right no they they made a big they made a big spectacle in their press release out of talking about their continued partnership I you know this is a relationship that has been delivering products since the original t-mobile what was it the the g1 it was the first one with the query sliding keyboard everybody was on board it was an amazing device yeah I remember I had that with the first Nexus device and then obviously I think most recently people are pointing to the pixel as HTC's engineering talent digging into the to the details of this I have to say I was a little concerned when we finally got the numbers on how many people were actually going to be making this transition there's a workforce of what roughly 4,000 engineers and and half of them half of this team is just going to live over at Google now what do you think I mean cuz obviously I think this is a boon for Google I don't think any part of this deal looks bad from Google's perspective no I'm but what do you think this means for the next generation of HTC products like they're losing that team that also would have been communicating about what Google was doing with the pixel I think you lose some insight there don't you they're losing a big part of their the group well so the team that I've put together the pixel XL and if you've used a pixel Excel you'll notice some a lot of resemblance to some other devices that they released during the same year so we can definitely see that the core people that are making this high-end level of hardware is leaving so it's a very concerning position for HCC's mobile division in as you know we got a look at them in different divisions they're different parts of this company HTC as a whole is not just one company that produces you know mobile devices or you know and if you still have the HTC vive section that still has to thrive and move forward so it's concerning to the from that aspect how are they going to be able to basically now make it stand in the US market even in Europe outside of the mid Rangers which is what they've been running off for a while like the desire line which devices all the other ones that people may not be well aware of but you know the U 11 those are flagship devices but HTC makes a lot of other you know MIDI Rangers that may end up being their bread and butter for for some time especially since they're losing the those key people that are pitching all those high-end devices they don't like the pixel XL and we'll see how the new version of the hardware comes out of how it handles comparing at the last year everybody's excited about that but it is concerning that HTC may be where the mobile division may be on a maybe they need to you know invent something new maybe they need to try to really think outside of the box now and try to get back that confidence in the US so I mean you were very diplomatic in in how you were putting that and in obviously yeah I don't mind engaging in a little a little tiny bit of wild speculation um we do know that there that there are plans for obviously a next year of devices and anything that HTC is talking about today we know that they probably have a pipeline you know two to three years worth of course of hardware that's sort of being planned for the next generations of HTC products so on pocket now we did post a story talking about the ocean master the ocean like the ocean harmony but outside of what they might be able to do over the next year after I had a little time to kind of sit and chew through all of the information that Google and HTC delivered in their press releases this to me really started to feel like like this could be a good long acquisition move yeah yeah eventually HTC is carved up into like you were saying the various divisions that make other products you know entry-level and mid-range ER phones flash' premium devices and then vive is another part of their hardware strategy as well but it's a completely different operating you know a team that's developing for that and so I kind of feel like if HTC and Google had just pulled the trigger day one HTC is gone these letters don't exist anymore we're scrambling to try and find a home for the vy for a buyout deal for the Vives technology and next year it's all gonna be the pixel I think there would have been a lot of negative sentiment or a lot of negative reaction to that deal but you start over with the flagship tier of engineers and developers you move them over to Google you sort out who might be redundant what divisions might not necessarily be needed anymore you keep a couple thousand people back at HTC just to see will they rise to the occasion without their premium flagship counterparts maybe the company struggles to execute at the high end after about three years and then you can kind of just fold that over while you've got plenty of time to figure out what you want to do with the vibe and how that's gonna exist on its own and that to me kind of felt like like at first the my reactions were overwhelmingly positive I love that HTC sticking around this is a company that I have I have a very long relationship with and I want to see them more competitive in the market they've got a billion dollars in cash they can definitely do something with that but the more I started to think about it the more I felt like this this feels like a lobster pot move to get people slowly acclimated to this change without rocking the boat and without Google taking on too much baggage they don't acquire any debt they don't have to instantly layoff a thousand people if they're redundant they've got a lot of time to kind of sort these things out as the next two generations of phone are are produced well and they also keep in mind this isn't Google's first attempt to working with an OEM so they've learned the LAT from Motorola / you know where do you know the Motorola is now and I I for one was sad when they let Motorola go and I really thought it was a as if it was a very good thing for the product for the brand but I think what they've learned from that is keep it under you know Google's name brand a pixel device no longer calling it an HTC and you know letting HTC still function at this this and this point in time makes it easier to yeah like you said accept it down the road if suddenly this entire team you know becomes they're all Google's staff at some point and HTC is like look we're just focusing on other devices or you know low range mid-range devices for you know other companies or other channels to be able to you know brand and get those out there it's something that we have to wait and see honestly at this point I think it's exciting because if anything it's gonna they're gonna definitely get their stocks should reflect the game they just got you know a bump a lot of years I have to be excited yeah so financially I think it's a win-win the reality is they've been working together for such a long time that it's a natural progression I'm just hoping at the end of the day that we don't get into that where Google controls both sides of the hardware and the software where we don't get that much innovation on the hardware the reason why the H the pixel XL was so great last year is because HTC developed the hardware and put it put that sensor in there and set up everything in Google built on that Google then control everything into that that sensor was there and other devices during that year so you got it you have to have some you know you have to have a talent that comes in a little bit from the outside bringing fresh ideas so we'll have to see next year's lineup you're right it's a little early to see where we are now you know III I mostly sorry I had three different sentences that I tried to get out all at the same time that happens to me a lot these days um no I agree with you that we don't want Google to start feeling too stagnant but I think this is also one of those things that Google is addressing in a way where they've had something of a branding problem where if you taught if you say Android most people are gonna think galaxy and that's not really Android it's this Android you know under the skin yeah yeah exactly says your version of Android and so you you have more opportunities to kind of peel consumers away from Google services and have them using Samsung services right so one thing I do want to circle back to is for all of the concerns that we've had people that have been shooting as comments and people that have been joining this conversation it really this really does to me seem like if eventually there is more of an acquisition you know we're of HTC folds that they're going about this in completely the anti motorola way you know that that whatever whatever mistakes were made almost beat for be this is the opposite way of how they handhold Motorola is exactly exactly they didn't take on the whole company they didn't decide to say hello everything comes in they're keeping it very strategic as you said they can still work with other companies HTC is not tied to Google but I think it's it's a win-win I think Google's definitely making the right move the smart move this year and I think as a consumer we we only have to basically get the best hardware and hopefully we'll be really pleased with the you know the hardware coming up in a couple of weeks I'm looking forward to it I mean I I know I'll be super sad if it's totally true I I think it's very likely to be true at this point especially if HTC's division has been more of a guiding force on the hardware that we'll be losing that headphone jack but otherwise it looks like yeah a pretty sweet device yes 2017 it'll be basically the last year we see headphone jacks sad I bet they're there they're probably gonna be some holdovers in 2018 I'm willing to bet that the first phone Huawei releases in 2018 will still have a headphone jack and maybe even Samsung and then by the end of 2018 the beginning of 2019 they'll all just be gone and we'll all be sad and everyone will grumble about it and complain but no one will really do anything to buy phones that still have headphone jacks there well yeah no it's it's it's a sad truth i I see them disappear you're not a daily basis but we'll have to species it truly is it's sad but you do get it on let's say no date right now it's refreshing they'd see that you know you get a high-end device note capabilities all those you know all those things they get and you still get the we got waterproofing with the three and half million we have the headphone jack and the s-pen you can take that thing and go in the water I went with my kid a couple weeks ago just to play in the pool I was using the s-pen underwater that's amazing there's space for all of this we got a stop I think there's a video I don't know if you've ever seen this there's a guy that installed a headphone jack we didn't iPhone said like apparently everything's still there is that Apple really saved any space no no I when I saw that I was like oh my god why this does not have more views and people need to know so yeah the need for it I think it's truly driven by Apple I think at this point in just more they think we don't need it and they're trying to sell us dongles yes I think I think that's actually kind of one of the most important aspects of of the mobile technology market is looking at can you also convince the consumer that they need to value add-on accessory purchase you know you know when you buy the phone it's not just enough to buy the phone can you also get that consumer to leave with a case it used to be can you leave with a case and a memory card and a screen protector and now it's also a nice pair of headphones but not just a nice pair of headphones but a pair of bluetooth headphones because those are more expensive and those also come with value add-ons like maybe you need an additional cable or a charger or something like that and so I think it's pretty clear why this has been such a because you know it's not necessarily about improving the consumer experience the the v-series of LG phones pretty much wrecks that hypothesis it's more you you get to create behavior that uh that benefits the bottom line when you're going in to buy that phone it's well so the the last thing I want to touch on that headphone and it's really the missing part I haven't seen really even manufacturers pick up on it it's decent headphones that are USB type-c compatible and the lack of standardization total oh you you don't get that anymore you're not getting you know you're you get HTC putting in their own little adapter proprietary or whatever all are doing the same thing and you get that one adapter you're stuck without headphones and you are gonna have to rely like you know on hopefully what Android Oreo is gonna be bringing in to the table better audio processing built into Android and having true aptX support natively support have you played with Android over there because I've tried a two different USB mics and a USB DAC and I had varying results on what worked and what didn't so my experience at play as far as just using the the actual built-in DAC and using the audio processing on it it's been very nice I have heard some people having some issues using the USB type-c connector to be able to play audio now it hasn't it hasn't been a hundred percent I remember Oreo just officially became an actual release a few weeks ago maybe a couple about a month or so ago but I enjoy using my pixel Excel it's a it's a secondary device I carry two phones and it's I'm very happy to see that Oreos addressing it finally addressing audio quality you go into developer option you can set a PTX support you can set the quality the audio the output levels you just didn't have these things before so we just need to see how the adoption of Oreo comes around and hopefully the v30 gets it first I don't know I'm crossing my fingers there I really want to see v30 with though with you know that kind of hard coded audio yeah built into it um it was one of the things I was I was having a conversation if the 3.5 millimeter headphone jack has to die the biggest stumbling block that we faced who you were mentioning is this terrible support for a true USB audio input output standard I mean baked into Linux sort of the kernel that drives Android and yet we've seen very little movement for people who care about a cabled connection to arrive at that kind of solution and one of the companies I was talking to uh Eva I had a conversation with one of the engineers that Sennheiser and I'm a I'm obscenities or or I love their gear if they're if you're going to remove audio a traditional audio hardware from a smartphone I'm actually not too angsty about that if I can invest in something that I know is gonna play universally across my various gadgets so you know I've got a us USB ports in a USBC port on my laptop be able to unplug from my phone and plug into my laptop and if Sennheiser is responsible for the DAC and the amp powering those headphones I'm gonna be a really happy camper cuz then it won't matter if I have like some $200 you know entry-level smartphone some you know thousand-dollar premium smartphone I know my headphone quality remains consistent across any device exactly - but I don't think we can get there until we know that these products have proper USB audio support and that to me seems like it's still a couple years away at the bare minimum yeah at the bare minimum from from a tipping point of Android manufacturers getting there you know Android Oh is out but I mean what's the market share on on nougat it's still crazy low it's extremely little up a1 percentage in that range and I think the ultimate solution would be to have a licensing program like made for iPhone instead of made for Android you know and have that as part of a you know licensed accessory bin so that's the only way that you can do it I think Android and HTC or Google and HTC working together in order to bring that about because HTC has been a clear offender on this with those bonus I think the danger of having that licensing though is is it probably stands just to create yet another division you know like this is compatible with HTC Google stuff doesn't necessarily mean that it's built on just the basic USB audio protocol which all phones should have access to but the way that Android layers on top of that audio stack creates additional latency so no one really bothers to try and implement it um if we could address that then it really wouldn't matter I mean you could you should be able to plug just like on the iPhone you should be able to plug any USB mic any USB audio interface I've got a portable recorder that plays great with my iPhone I've got a hike quality professional recording interface that plays great with my iPhone this shouldn't be a problem it should just work um we probably should wrap this up on the HTC I do want to chew through a couple of the tweets that we've been getting this is from right s he actually tweeted us 11 hours before we started broadcasting using the pn weekly hashtag with google acquiring HTC now we know that wasn't an actual acquisition do you think if the red HTC u 11 have been a pixel phone it would have been a super success he thinks so do you think having a pretty red option would have made the pixel a bigger deal TK or do you think that it still would have been just as constrained in terms of manufacturing and shipping I think you know actually I have to say yeah I mean if DSD you love them that tiny red phone and having just you know Google on the back of that I think that would be an amazing device getting it yeah and I think the design and we all love our Google devices or a pixel devices not necessary for the way they look it's because of what they can do to this day the camera on the pixel Excel or the pixel devices is I think in my opinion the number one of 2017 still and it came out last year so when you look at it in that sense it's hard to tell you know is it making sexier woodwork but I think it couldn't hurt I think Google would definitely would have been all over that horizon would have loved it can you try to say is Verizon you walk into a verizon carrier and you've got the big red checkmark with this so was it solar red was that the name of the the right exact solar flare going off there we've got a couple of their tweets here from renato Laporte PN weekly I think that in one year we won't be seeing relevant HTC devices anymore unless they partner with somebody else someone also kind of piggybacking on my hypothesis that that flagship grade stuff is probably gonna be living more and more at Google and then what's left is probably going to be servicing but you were saying the desire market in the mid ranger market do you think this is from Peter hatin do you think HTC will still try to make phones themselves or will they focus their efforts on their more profitable areas like vive and TK I mean if they just carve everything up then HTC is gone and it's just the vive company essentially yeah going on to live on after the the Phoenix out of the ashes of HTC exactly and then I mean there's been even rumors that the five division may be up for grabs at some point so it's it truly is looking like HTC is looking to divide and conquer basically we're not trying to be the Masters of all tricks we know we do really well on the vibe the pixel to pixel division at at Google works great let's just do what works for them and I think it's a good way to keep it but unfortunately could mean the end of the HTC brand as we we all remember it yeah from Juan Salazar are we going to see faster updates for HTC devices my feeling is probably no yeah not with more talent living at Google I wouldn't count on that being such an open line of communication you'll have to move over to a pixel yeah if you want to see its exactly you're getting HTC and you're getting and lastly and this is for both of you guys for both you jewels and for utk this is from the jieb I've got the pixel what's your recommendation on going with pixel two or should he wait for the pixel three I mean if we're talking about this didn't we have the pixel 2x now I believe was the leaked name of it which is gonna be LG and it's gonna have the screen that 2x1 to screen display hey I think that's worthy of looking at and we've also talked about pricing which has stayed the same relative to last generations pixels so if anything there is no guarantee that the pixel 3 will you know not cost 750 or 850 dollars that's what I take so from my from my approach to it I'm looking at it from a spec point of view the reality is I think year after year what we see from our from pixel devices or even update we see a small speck bump for one we had from last year on the pixel in the pixel I think realistically if you're happy with what you have with the pixel XL you're still gonna get those updates you're still going to be on the cutting edge getting those new versions of Android when they come out the betas and so on you know I would probably say stay with the pixel excel as you have and wait till the pixel three because that's probably where you're gonna start seeing some of the new things coming out is when you know HTC and Google have had about a year to sit together and work under the same umbrella and produced because that'll be the you know Gen 1 of this merger or not merger but this borrowing of staff partnership yeah yeah partnership I think that's what that would be my opinion I I agree and especially because I think last year's phones have aged far better than phones of previous generations exactly if you can hold it out I mean we're pretty confident we're gonna be getting the narrower aspect ratio the the Qualcomm 835 or some variants close enough in terms of Qualcomm 835 performance and you're losing the headphone jack I feel like you could probably look at the next year the pixel 3 as being you know more of like the Apple tick-tock you know that's where we'll probably see a more substantial improvement to the guts of the phone and from there moving forward exactly like you were saying TK I think well we'll see more the fruits of this team working with Google the first pixel it definitely shows it was very much a rushed product you know trying to fit a certain market demographic in under nine months I mean you know babies take longer to make then the person was created so pixel to I think is a better representation of what these teams can do working together but the true test will be generation three and that also goes back to my overall hypothesis that that's when I think consumers are really going to be taking Google seriously as a first party manufacturer so I think that's where we're apt to see something even more exciting coming out of this partnership for sure indeed indeed I cannot wait for that but in the meantime we have plenty of other and used to talk about so if you don't mind I'm just gonna jump right in here for the week September 18th 2017 this is all the news that's fit to podcast according to an analyst at Raymond James Apple has yet to begin true mass production on the iPhone 10 that's set the ship in November it's not clear how his claims are built but it goes against the high street grain that right around now mid September the huawei mate 10 is supposedly going to come in four flavors a main model a pro version a very capable light model and perhaps a Porsche Design Edition much like how we've seen the mate nine come out pricing for the main model and the pro is set to stretch between iPhone 8 and iphone 10 territory so between those two we're talking about 650 tailed $1,150 which is kind of an uncharted or rarely charted territory for this kind of caliber of phone in China at least t-mobile has raised its deprived de prioritization 32 gigabytes to 50 gigabytes that's the amount of data used in a month before the carrier decides to throttle customers speed in high-traffic situations it has gone up four times since the introduction of its t-mobile 1 and limited data offer and this most recent raising happened after it introduced its free Netflix on us deal and finally the Moto X 4 has been introduced the US as the us's first Android 1 phone and with it project fives first as well the Google + VN O's is taking a pre-orders for than $400 device through up to October 5th meantime the minimalist Android 1 program is set to expand in this country in the very new future so I've already placed my pre-order for one of those babies I feel like I'm gonna get a good workout it's gonna replace the Nexus 5x I've had that on a on a other account that I don't use that often now at all and I feel like it's just gonna be just much more of a fit I'm sad to see the moto assist sweet and all the other moto features go away but I mean it's it is what it is is I feel yeah this is actually one of the most exciting moves I think for project Phi is just getting another phone in the lineup and I really liked our first hands-on so if you if you catch our video of the Moto X for here on the pocket now YouTube channel it's terrible it's maybe one of the worst looking videos we've ever shot and it was because the the product revealed that we had in Berlin was like this like dark dance forever yeah it was I mean it was fun but it was terrible because in in the arena that we're in it was difficult to see the phone let alone to try and also shoot video of it and so that was a big bummer but actually having the phone in my hands I was very impressed with what moto moto was doing for the x4 so this is an excellent way to introduce a mid-range ur4 project by not just having people like well if you want a less expensive device you can maybe try and find a used Nexus and that's what you can use for project 5 this is so much better to have a legit first party offering a new product which will begin a lifecycle of support and updates current internals current chipset current cameras and now it's also more viable strategy for project 5 for those of us who are looking at an inexpensive way to provide service for a phone no definitely and in joules too even though it's sad to see some of these features go away it would make the ability to update that device a much easier process for Google or even for Motorola because there's less less work for them to do it's it's a kind of like a hey you have something new here you go it should be a much better experience all the features should be in the USP and that will be easier and you know I mean it's these should be its like stock these stock plus situations should just be an on stock and that could be said the same for oneplus in some situations personally I don't feel like my taste but hey I think it's a fair addition you know what be really exciting is motorola goes through all of this google licensing stuff to deliver this android one handset for North America and then like the next day on Google Play there's a Motorola accessory pack that you can not not crazy intrusive they should do that that I'm not sure why you haven't been you you're not applying for a job well but I mean it was a part of what HTC did I mean not not as directly or not as boldly but I mean like every individual component of HTC's Sense really was just a separate it was broken up and it was you you download directly through Google Play I don't see where Motorola couldn't do it couldn't replace this functionality just by leaving a couple software holes open that then just plug right in through stuff that you can download there are obvious advantages to kernel level stuff that's why I think that that could be a smart that could be a fun play I doubt they're gonna do it because they don't want to rock the boat Google but the additions that Motorola brings I mean what are the great things about having used the the z2 was there was just this one Motorola app where all of that stuff lived now it wasn't like you had a bunch of disparate separate services and apps that needed to be updated across the kernel it was just this one here's everything you can find it right here and I know the app doesn't really work that way I mean they're a bunch of individual components and need to be updated but if you could get to a point where it was just one accessory pack apk that would be super nice for people that wanted to replace that functionality no no I think it's Samsung's done it in the past to I don't know if you guys have heard it would be a seven and es6 they used to have a Productivity pack in an audio music playback pack they used to sell extra packages they used to download off of their Play Store or after the Samsung store apps yeah or specific made for Galaxy or so the reality is a lot of these modifications like Jules explains it's not that hard you're right there are some of them that do require criminal levels kernel level modification for it to even work specifically with the always-on display the tab will tap - wait there's gestures and so on those things are not as as simple as a simple apk but we've seen development done from from other companies that have introduced it to even low-end devices so it's not uncalled for and you mentioned one plus one plus is a perfect example they keep it very lean it's in there and it's baked in and there's also a big development support behind it and hopefully Motorola can can capitalize on that provide a vanilla device and you can add your toppings later now I wanna I wanna circle back to huawei just because I'm getting crazy anxious about the the may 10 reveal but this is making me a little nervous seeing so many different leaks about so many different product lines and so many different pieces and one of the things that was really nice about the may 9 was that it launched pretty simply I mean was the May 9 the main tonight Porsche design which eventually became the mate 9 Pro but at launch it was two major phones and then just two different flavors of phone per the launch do we think that Huawei might be biting off more than they can really chew or at least biting off more than they can properly communicate to consumers with their mouths full from biting off too much and especially at this threshold where they're transitioning to two by one and also they're adding on water resistance for the first time I think in yeah series history yeah that's that's a pretty crazy from what these leaks are telling us and they're all six inch devices and I mean suppose it is mate 10 light or the what was the mine on six so G 10 or whatever they vary you know they're all supposed to support the top-end 970 and these big batteries and like that there is a baseline experience and then there's like the rate rest of it which just adds on and adds on and adds on in terms of hardware and I don't know how much we're gonna get for that much more money is what I'm saying storage and if the trim the drab market is to be believed it is still definitely a hard time out there no and TK isn't there some some merit to the conversation about having like ten different SKUs as opposed to shipping one or two really well refined products instead like dividing up your manufacturing lines into all of these separate products some of them selling better than others some of them dedicated to certain regions most of them never coming here to the United States about to jump on that and and the reality is that the flavors that we're looking at could potentially be for different markets we're not looking for you know let's say there's four different versions of it you know the your of them regular the high-end and then the two mid rangers the reality is those probably in the bean in different markets you know there's the European market there's the Asian market they're going to be getting in there I think Huawei's approach in the US has changed slightly from last year what we've seen this year is very big approach into Europe we've had the mate nine in the US and we've had nothing else there you know and if we want to talk huawei we can talk about honor a little bit maybe an honor didn't bring you know the ad honor nine didn't come to the US the way they honor eight came last year well that I think that waited breath that for AT&T to do something early next year because we've been talking about those rumors as well yeah yeah and that's the the the approach I think they're focusing headstrong I think they have the the less participate they have the R&D department to be able to fit all of us into a handheld device that could perform well they need to market it at the right level and price it correctly I think we're going into this beginning of 2018 or end of seventeen of the $1,000 close to $1,000 phone and it's it's becoming when do we want to basically go over and I gotta turn off Google now behind me because she's answering the answer looking at and we're looking at some of these rumors though that the starting price for a May 10 you know we're talking about a 4 gigabyte 4 gigabytes of RAM and a 64 gigabyte storage Varian starting under $700 u.s. could be a compelling way to say yeah he do have the thousand-dollar option if want this May 10 Pro / Porsche design experiment thing if you want to show that off you can but I like this idea of a big bold powerful device that starts at what a flagship phone uses the cost and with an amazing amazing chipset we're talking at the SOC on this - 970 we've seen a lot of good stuff on it and the made nine I still love it I've had it since the beginning of January it's it's amazing audio playback amazing camera on the back there you have two dual sensor setup with like a branding okay you win and I don't mean to party poop here but you know we're talking about kwame and it's native country and you know we're going to expect a little bit more to go on in terms of oh bring it over us this this you know we're just doing the exchange rate so the rumor is that it would be what 4300 yeah and that you high for you know I mean if you're talking about a market that's saturated with show me and rain zoo and all that that's a you know that's still very big and you know the direct exchange rate is just six hundred and fifty dollars I wholly expect that let's say they managed to pull a worldwide launch that it would easily be what 749 device you could easily add a hundred dollars to that price tag and still have a device more than capable of competing against the flagship products that have been released this year let alone undercutting other large screen options like the galaxy s 8 plus the note 8 and easily undercutting those products I really hope that they take it you know it's gonna be a soft launch and before the whole AT&T thing I I hope that that's gonna be like when they really you mean by you hope it's a soft launch you mean ramping up like launching in just a couple countries and then bringing it to the US when they have a carrier strategy or yeah dude just China and or just like even giving out just a simple press release like the conversations we've been having with LG like hey brah LGBTQ when's it really gonna go yeah that's true but I mean you get you get my point and it's gonna happen I really believe it's gonna happen and if they can communicates all that to the proper audience I think I'm a good awesome big IFS because those are definitely criticisms we've had for a number of manufacturers and not the least of which LG and HTC and Motorola and how they communicate with their customers um real quick just want to wrap up sort of the news block with the iPhone 10 story how much how much faith do we want to put into this report it seems a little sketchy that Apple would have put such a hard deadline for the phone's release at their keynote and then someone else you know maybe with good credibility maybe not we don't know speaking to this point as you know the thing that bothers me is that is the line that they haven't started mass production that's imagine is worrying but shouldn't there be evidence of that like shouldn't we be able to look that up somehow in all we've had are just little paper trails from component manufacturers back and I think mid August or so that signaled that there's a big rise in activity and presumably I mean they're all Apple suppliers so that's gonna be the case here that you can attribute that to that but in terms of actual like Foxconn because it still all has to be assembled you can have all the parts but have to actually go through with the mixing of the ingredients if you will yeah I'm puzzled on that front especially if we're talking about making sure that everything fits together I mean it is challenging with the new like curved glass and the display part especially yeah I mean especially for fitting it all together I heard Tim Cook took the iPhone and threw it into a glass of water and when you saw air bubbles he was like there's more room in there you have more room I don't well I mean oh he could just go into you know Good Morning America and say is a value price or the right for the most forward-thinking just phone ever created TK do you think that this would harm Apple if there was a delay do you know no it's sadly I think if anything he would be feeding the beast it's only gonna make the demand even higher I mean we all live wooden house it once but until the supply actually catches them and that's the that's the inference here is that we should be taking out is that yeah just where it's all it's still gonna be weeks and weeks and months people are gonna be waiting for yet for orders and then try to buy it and it's it's just it's been this way the only thing I can say for sure is we're probably going to all be able to get iPhone eights by December if we want them and the reality is everybody's waiting for the X and that demands gonna be so high that even if this was not true and they did start ramping up they cannot stay ahead of the demand and there's always gonna end up being a shortage so it doesn't hurt them it just keeps people talking about them and I think it's a good thing I'm looking forward to seeing the iPhone 10 iPhone X the reality is probably won't probably won't be able to see it for quite some time you know because it is gonna sell out you know I think Apple has a way of approaching things it's supply and demand right they already knew that the iPhone eight was not gonna be the performer so you know we didn't hear one big issue from them saying oh my god the sales of the iPhone eight is not working because I think they realized this is where it's coming so I think there could they're ramping up they are gonna run out before the holiday and use before we know it we're all gonna be like where's my iPhone time and why is it in terms when you're comparing halves of business you know the first half for Apple start in the holidays goes into the Sprint and that's when they sell the most iPhones so they have that routine drilled into these customers you know every two years there's a game I phone it's that this time boom you have it and yet when you're stretching that efforts to more of the spring quarter instead of like the actual holidays when everyone has the bug set aside for gifts and all that I don't know I really don't know if it's you know it's a mission credit of coltan face of course but you're still when you need it you need it now when you're when you're broken on that one Jules is I think we've been in a holding a lot of I should say a lot of iPhone fans have been in a holding pattern so whatever funds they might have been dedicating towards you know an iPhone 7 or creeper a good actor and and that they're just sort of sitting on that I can tell you I have so many family members that are still rocking like iPhone 5s is kind of waiting to see what might come and the iPhone 6 to iPhone 7 transition didn't really seem to do it for them that's you know two years of not paying off a phone on a contract that they haven't had to spend on a device so this notion that they're gonna be spending 40 bucks a month when they finally do get it isn't quite so devastating once these these iPhone 10 start shipping exactly we're gonna see a lot of subsidy that's gonna bring down that thousand dollar price and I think that's what they're banking on a lot of Apple's processes look yeah we said it's a thousand dollars but the reality is a lot of people gonna be financing it either releasing it if you do a let's say t-mobile jump on demand its Apple directly yeah yeah or even yeah yeah so are you sorry with the iPhone 5s and I've even like the iPhone 4s as kind of the big fringe audience that we're trying to get with the supercycle that analysts have been talking about and training programs have only extended either towards the iPhone 6 or iPhone 5s so at this point why is it two people that's you're getting five or $10 a month off when you're your 5-year old iPhone doesn't even is not even worth anything anymore and unless there is like an actual upfront subsidy no strings attached I don't think it's it makes sense but that's why I think these leasing programs because instead of it being an upfront subsidy it's just you don't pay anything it's like literally zero and then it just shows up on your bill we've got a couple tweets here from Renato Laporte PN weekly remember the first global iPhone months of waiting well here we go again and and immediately after from David Baptista Silva Apple always does that by producing short supplies they assure that the market does not lower the price of the iPhone it prevents the iPhone from be immediately becoming a commodity like Android manufacturers can sometimes run into exactly maybe I design LS eBay's like never MSRP starting you know a well we um we had some Motorola news like I said I was really excited about project five there was another Motorola story that we want to unpack a little bit too and actually another reason why I'm really glad you're on this week's podcast tks because we're talking about software support Jules can you talk us just through the basics real quick on this renewed promise from Motorola on the g4 plus hold on I have to I have to simulate the whole button for right but it it it and that that would be our top spot sounder if I had the soundboard I'm really glad you don't have the soundboard more jewels like bebop sky okay know what we're talking about here is the Moto G for plus now originally there was marketing material for it on its website Motorola's website that said that it would be updated to both Android N and O and it goes against what Motorola has previously said or as previously put down as its policy moto G Series phones these mid Rangers will only get one year of OS updates which you know kind of surprises us but you know in the whole scheme of things when you're dealing with a portfolio of twelve phones and a lot more already top end devices you have these other mid-range and lower end devices that you have to deal with all right fine you can triage it's like that that's fine at least to me it is but so now that they've been caught like they've been caught with this material and they changed it postmortem mmm people are saying or have been complaining hey you should probably fix this or do this and Motorola came out and said you know what you're right we're gonna back up our promise and just even though it's gonna be on a indefinite basis on an untimed basis there's no strict guideline as to when we'll do it we'll do it so now that makes the Moto G 4 plus as the 13th phone that they'll have to update to Android Oreo in the near future everyone else is gonna be first I suppose because it'll be it'll take the least amount of time to do but I guess the first question and we'll go up and down with this one should the Moto G series get 2-year OS update supports and what I was gonna what I was gonna jump in with Jules is because I don't know that it's ever I don't know that I've ever paid attention enough to see where it was disclosed that the G was only supposed to get one major OS update yeah is that been something in your experience where like he disclosed that like this it hasn't checked yet yeah no no the DES general rule has always been two years of so s update that's the the unwritten rule by most providers and I think it was set by Google because Google is the one who started saying look we'll support these devices for a certain number of updates probably two revisions of I of Android and supporting mid Ranger's it's it shows dedication from the company if they want to be able to do it but as you said Jules the the requirements for so many as such a big portfolio of devices to get updated every year is going to be very taxing on the company and specially since I mean hello we have yeah A's eze and other letters that I don't even think exist anymore there's yeah then again they have so many flavors of their devices and so very few of those get updates and even when they do receive the updates you know is so so long you may have already gotten written the device you don't even have it anymore is it good PR yes is it should it be done definitely I think people would appreciate it they would feel like they have value in their device and it's gonna get the next Android version I mean because Apple still supports it even though it's an older device they have a set timeline and they support it is it functional from the manufacturing as far as from a company's point of view it's a little hard to justify it I think as you said they got caught with that statement it's something they have to stick to the g4 plus for me was a great device for what it did and the price point it did overheat for me I'm hoping software can fix that issue for us but you know at some point you have to kind of from a company Center we have to move on and people that have the g4 are not really looking for updates for Android they look for a budget device that had a big screen 1080p display a decent camera on it a Dyson off battery because it was the high end of the g4 series right you had to play the g4 and the g4 plus and it's nice to see that one moving on and we could get people to you know think of maybe the next series of G 0 G devices will get it so I mean I've got a personal stake in this because I've got a couple family members who are on g4 s so g4 pluses specifically and so yeah motorola needs to give them like 10 years of software support is probably concern um but one of the things that I think III kind of wanna I kind of wanna fight you on TK o come someone who might be buying a budget device you're probably right that they're not looking for bells and whistles and you know they're trying to achieve something and they're trying to achieve it at a certain price point but one of the things increasingly as we come to depend on our portable electronics more so much of our lives personal data being lived out of these devices um more than any other tier I feel budget and mid rangers need to have multiple years of proper software support not just for bug fixes and patches but also for the operating system when I started doing this podcast it was almost two years ago we were talking about an army of Samsung Galaxy s3 that were still being used around the world and were these huge security a these huge security exploits because they were just off the reservation for any kind of of support from the manufacturer and from Google and if if a company is going to quietly disclose that oh no this is the line of phones that only gets one major operating system update I think that needs to be a bigger deal yeah that that erodes a lot of confidence in a brand that I trust for this sort of entry to mid-range product the Moto G series is something that I've always pointed family and friends to because it's a reputable brand it's a brand recognition everyone remembers Motorola they make great products and they should be well supported if I can take should be well supported off the list there's no incentive for me to recommend a Motorola over a flaw way over a budget LG over a desire over any other solution that might come at the same price tier and will probably also deliver more compelling hardware at that price here at the same time it's something that they they should have it like as you said they should be more forthcoming with the information you should see the ads basically at the same level as does they have a great camera does it get support does it have great audio does it have a good display it's something that you need to basically factor into when you're buying a device because you know when we say mid-range mid-range is such a big gap from very budget-friendly to you know a feature phone sorry over to a device that you know is capable like you said like the G Series and you should make a decision based on that and then think as we move forward in time support for devices doesn't end with the manufacturer and there is other options down on the market but from a standard as far as what you're saying if you say you're buying it for a family friend you know your mom your friend your brother your cousin you want to make sure that they're too well taken care of and you're not losing it on that because nine times out of ten we're a tech support for all of those people so we got to know what we're doing right because they're gonna come back to you and say hey one so you know what's up the security flaw is all over the news so my hope would be is that they're able to provide patches more periodically and more consistently to be able to teach the security patches but maybe Android OS updates I don't think it's a that bad to say look will allow will definitely upgrade you to the next version because within a year there's usually at least a version of Android but outside of that it's hard to justify because like I said it's a mid-range err you didn't you didn't buy into the the continued support the continuous update and so on and then you have to factor well and there is probably also some concern that that second year of updates if you're on a Qualcomm 615 you're exactly adding the best performance I totally appreciate that I think maybe that you nailed it for me is where's the disclosure yeah cuz a part of this press release too is you know we made a mistake with our marketing materials and really yeah I guess maybe sure but you there's a responsibility to the consumer that they know what information is at stake here what information possibly could have been a mistake because so many other players in the market you buy a phone and consumers aren't looking at this like I bought a mid-range err they they're looking at this like I bought a phone yeah Brendon look at their friends with an Apple phone and it gets four or five operating system updates by the end of the that chain of updates the iPhone is barely usable but it still got the OS update yeah and then they look at their own product and they hear you know there's that sort of osmosis like oh there was a security exploit there was a the broad broad pond there was another operating system exploit and then to know that oh well because I somehow buy a cheap phone for $300 now I have to take care of it all on my own is not really an acceptable solution for anyone these days no I think it's as long as they as long as they know what they're getting into you're right at least you know you know what you're doing and what your expectations should be I did want to turn this question rant to the future because as we're going along hopefully Android and its OAM partners and even though the carriers are going to start implementing project treble and they're gonna be able to make simpler lengths to code from mold ooh and you know you would hope that people start taking up this this whole scheme does this give them less enough excuse from that point to just start updating all of their devices at you know in the timely fashion what do you think so I'll start by saying it it's not gonna give him more it's not gonna be less of an excuse I think if anything they're they're probably going to stick to their own mechanism of saying look we're gonna support certain things to a certain way we're gonna keep producing it I think till we have full-on support for the way updates can be pushed out more incrementally as opposed to being this big overdo of the entire system because what we forget that I mean I know with Motorola and with the GG devices these are unlocked devices so you're not getting that much carrier stuff you know because Google can push an update Motorola can push an update but if Verizon doesn't update the z-force on Verizon with their version of Android which takes all more more time you're gonna get these little slowdowns and whatever hiccups they have t-mobile is the same thing so we always only keep in mind as yes it could help I think it's gonna definitely improve the experience they can definitely promise more if they are if they're willing to you know put the support behind it but we also need telcos we need you know oh yeah not OEM is what providers to start you know simplifying their codes simplifying their atoms so that it doesn't become this overhaul of an update that looks so different from one carrier to another to the same device essentially yeah when we were going through all of the project fuchsia rumors for example and what future operating system Google might be looking at for mobile devices and what that might resemble I hate to say it but I think this is this is a consumer argument in favor of maybe making the wide open nature of Android a little bit more restrictive and put in more of the onus and control under Google in a way that maybe Microsoft is responsible for updating their products more than the manufacturers of Microsoft products that means we lose a little flexibility and it upsets some of Google's manufacturing partners that their skins can't be quite so invasive so be it you know I think we're seeing a few steps in that direction with Android google mandating that partners have to use the power management settings of andhra to restrict background processes i think some of those a few more of those moves might actually empower google to take some of the heavy lifting off of manufacturers and carriers and support more directly with the consumers using their software and i think that would probably be the best i mean this is a long-term solution and it will probably mean a future operating system not necessarily android for it to be executed this way but i kind of think that's the best way to go about maintaining security actually delivering updates and again for all of our excitement over features in Android Oh who's gonna be using it in six months how many people will really have access to all of this cool new stuff and it's a shockingly tiny fraction exact enjoyed market as a whole this is not a good position for Google to be in if they're gonna keep pushing products and services no it definitely it's we're we're far away where we have years before we can see a true adoption of all these things that we're looking at right now pixel devices have that benefit but the reality is yeah Google needs to put more a better structure for updates and the fact that 90% of the skins that we see as you said at least from an enthusiast standpoint I replace the the the front-end launcher I'm not a big fan of most launchers Nova guess on my device and over time I have my setup correctly and I appreciate what they try to do but I do want to say one thing in Google's at defense at least or even as a as a nice little bonus they've been learning year after year all these nice features that we've seen the split-screen they better audio processing or even you know the the display just to be able to hold up your device and be able to see your notifications those things have been adopted and actually built into the OS now that we can truly appreciate it so it's taking some of these things back unfortunately manufacturers disable these you have to go in there and you know you lose some of these things that you you want this let's create the LG that it really nicely they stopped developing their split-screen functionality I think on the V 20 and it's look Google did it we don't need to do it let's just hate theirs move forward yeah it was actually rolled out as exactly yes yes I mean there was there was a weird little package and it was I think with the g5 they stopped implementing their own version of split screens didn't know the phone didn't have the update yet and and I and I looked for that I didn't understand it at the time but it makes perfect sense so I think it will help a lot of other manufacturers I don't know Samsung will be will be taking any pages from that book but at least for LG you know could be HTC down the road and also maybe with Huawei as well there is there's gonna be a much easier way of path for them to update and provide better support for their devices also I just feel like in terms of this whole climate of cybersecurity there's there's a morality argument at play that I think has largely been overlooked where the people who are most economically disadvantaged are also the people who are going to be the easiest targets it's argued yeah continuously moving forward and if a major company doesn't come out ahead of this it means huge swathes of the population of this planet are going to be increasingly left out in the cold when it comes to things like security and support but on that note on that happy happy note and whenever talking about phones and things are exciting I do want to move around the piano a hashtag here on Twitter Jules you got some good tweets for me yeah I got Renata report who mentions morality more of the day don't make software support promises as a selling point I think I've we've talked against that point I guess or or do but just live up to your promises I guess the moral of the story is if you're gonna sell something actually deliver what you're selling the David Baptista Silva leasing subsidies etc those only exist in the US around the world nobody else really does that hence Apple's low market share and I would argue that Apple has started to drive deals with regional banks in those countries to start providing those options those financing options anyways and even if they're not being taken up I mean they they've always sold so much definitely definitely gaining ground on that definitely indeed and Peter hatin I guess if anything mid-range is often more important for software support as many of these people benefit most from important updates and I think that we can all agree with that Android should be built in a way where security patches are pushed widely directly by googly yeah and then also from Peter hatin this is I think this is an interesting point too because I don't know if it works in the positive but I know it works in the negative his opinion that good software support for a mid-range shows real care and can help sell a flagship but I don't you know it's like one of those things when things go right people don't seem to notice or to care I mean it's just sort of a foregone conclusion if you have an iPhone that you're gonna be getting support and so it's NBD when these updates finally do arrive and a lot of people actually get annoyed like I got to update my phone again but you know when the negative happens again like we were talking about if Motorola is really making it one update one major update for a mid-range phone that actually gives me pause as to whether or not I would recommend other motorola products if it turns out in the negative like your phone got no support its way less likely that I'd recommend a more expensive product from that man messenger if that's actually that's how they treat their customers no I totally agree exactly it's the experience it's how you build your the loyalty from your customers you need to give them what they are looking for and make sure that you know it's working if you're not paying attention to it you know no news is good news kind of thing you want to be in that position most of us want to be there because the moment you hear about a thread or a leak or something that goes through says look there's a patch that needs to come through but oh my device isn't supported you're gonna feel short-changed and you're more than like you're not gonna go back to the same company when you upgrade you're gonna probably go somewhere else and try another manufacturer that has a better track so hopefully like Jules was saying is if or the I think was the other tweet I mentioned is that Google gets to a point where they're able to push security updates because at the end of the day they're the ones who are pushing it out anyways to the ballot to the - you know Verizon t-mobile and so on so if they can push it into to our devices and it just updates the system I think it's a much better experience and then if anything else it creates value I mean honestly I mean I understand why some of these things are you know Qualcomm has these issues with the vulnerabilities and some of those have to do with the radio through the carriers anyways but still it's just I don't know how kind of stuck in this dilemma but if you're able to see if you're able to feature proof in any way if you're able to you know take a chance on an Android one or pixel or whatever I think will be much more better setup if you're on the Android side fear less then we're already in that kind of mode but right and a lot of that is that that talking point vote with your wallet but it's guiding people out of the mentality of being on team manufacturer instead looking like what really is gonna be the best product for me and whenever that happens if you need to make a decision pocket nail will be there for you well Jules is there like some kind of resource where people could have read all of these news stories yeah you would go to pocketnow.com and at the podcast section to find as opposed for all the stories that we've talked about and you can also tune in to YouTube and the pocket now Daly with Jaime Rivera and that is every weekday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and and what if I want to read these stories but I also speak Spanish that interesting yes I would like to direct you to yes dot pocket wall dot-com you can find Marcos back now on Twitter at son gadget guy is axe TK DL eight six five five and I your producer and humbly at pocket now is available on the web socially and digitally pocket now and on YouTube as well and we wouldn't be here if it weren't for you the listeners and viewers that have made the show possible for five years the PocketNow weekly is back with more technology goodness next week so make sure you tune back in nicely done