and we are live this week on the p-n
weekly a storm is brewing over at LG may
be a potential LG v40 codenamed the
storm which is where I got the pun about
a storm brewing at LG the United States
bans ZTE from sourcing parts after
violating sanctions we might see a
proper iPhone mid-range err sporting an
LCD and Intel kills the vaunt to the
wailing gnashing cries of my terrible
terrible sadness we've got a lot to talk
about so make sure you're charged and
ready for episode three zero one of the
PocketNow weekly recorded April 20th at
noon pacific time this day holding no
special significance for anyone in our
audience I'm sure this weekly podcast is
where we dissect and discuss gadgets the
gadgets that make our lives mobile
smartphones tablets and wearables it's
all the stuff you wished existed when
you were a kid and will someone please
hurry up and deliver some kind of
heads-up display
computing platform for consumers without
killing it in the early stages of face
computing tech because we need something
like that Intel Google Microsoft anybody
please I'm begging you I'm Juan Carlos
back now contributing editor at
pocketnow.com joined as always by my
plucky podcast producer mr. joules one
on the east coast how's it going sir
okay there one you sound like you're a
little bit desperate for something I
yeah i am i'm i'm significantly more
upset about intel vaunt than I think I
have any right to be but well we'll get
to that in the news block I'm sure
indeed and we'd also like to welcome our
guests here on the pocket net weekly
host of the mobile Tech Talk podcast it
is Domenico Lombardi hello to you sir
with the cheers for your red wine nice
to have you nice to be on hey guys it's
nice to speak to you guys again I
haven't spoken to you in a while yeah
it's been a minute now now Dom Dominique
Oh Dominique oh Lamberty I mean I don't
want to make sure I'm getting I'm
getting
right is that culturally insensitive is
what I'm is what I mean I couldn't be
culturally insensitive if I have if
three of my four names are Italian and I
have the most British accent possible
I'm not sure basically you're saying
your name is cultural culture
appropriation is way pretty much yeah
I like that rule I appreciate well you
know my first and last names and one the
English name is James and you can you
can kind of guess what the the third
very at some other time well we'll play
it some other time but I thank you for
joining us on the pocket and weekly this
week we've got a pretty decent news
block for us to chew through too so I'm
glad that you're gonna be here to help
us unravel it all of course as we're
jumping into this show we want to extend
that that shout out to the people
watching our livestream people who are
on Twitter you want to join the
conversation drop us some comments and
you can tweet at us with the p-n weekly
hash tag it's the easiest way for us to
catch your comments make sure they make
it into the show if you're listening to
the show after the live broadcast of
course you can always contribute to the
conversation via the emails podcast at
pocketnow.com or we'll pull some selects
the end of every month to do our
listener mailbag round up episode make
sure you want to join the discussion
there that's how you can also join the
discussion
Jools we've got like I said we've got a
crazy news block why don't we jump right
in see what's going on in the world of
news the top headlines from
pocketnow.com big news this week for the
week of April 16 2018 this is all the
mobile tech news that is fit to podcast
we start off with leaks reporter Kevin
Blas placing LG's v35 thin Q and V 40
thank you released online and they
happened about me and 2018 the v35 is
expected to launch around at the same
time as the g7 thank you would you will
likely be or haven't may
with minor hardware improvements from
the V 30s thing now now the v40
meanwhile is said to be scheduled for
late summer or early fall no hardware
details about that project which is
codenamed storm just yet the Department
of Commerce has issued a denial order to
ZTE placing it on a list of foreign
companies that cannot source items
hardware or software from the United
States
this comes with government claims that
ZTE admitted it had failed to discipline
senior staff after had been penalized
for violating trade sanctions in 2012
doing business with companies in Iran
Iran and North Korea in a full statement
the Chinese telecom firm says it wants
to resolve this situation but may resort
to a lawsuits will cover more of their
statements coming up in a few minutes
out of three new iPhones set to debut in
some tender it's now believed that the
least expensive one with an LCD screen
couldn't be not as pricy as we first
thought well known Apple analysts
maangchi quo of KGI securities has
suggested that this model could start
not at $800 as first suggested but
around $550 and for the first time we
could see a dual sim variant starting at
$650 this as we're learning about
Apple's CEO Tim Cook's comments made it
to the Sydney Morning Herald about a
rumored platform merger between iOS and
Mac OS during the private iPad launch
event in Chicago computer responds to
the fixation quote unquote this topic
Cook said that he would never consider
it quote trade-offs and compromises to
make apps work on both platforms Chinese
brand Nubia has launched its red magic
gaming smartphone with the Snapdragon
835 but it also has an RGB light strip
and costs $400 also this week a soos has
announced that it is developing a gaming
smartphone we may soon see the first
republican gamers are owed
he found at some point but there's no
firm timetable on this blackberry CEO
John Chen likes to talk about his
desires it seems one of his latest
fancies is a revival of the bold 9900
one of his favorite keyboard phones in
an interview he said that he wants it
very basic very secure and about the the
cost of about 150 to 200 dollars and it
seems like one of his off the off the
cuff ramblings there but it could have
si finally the Galaxy S ten is back in
discussion after a couple of design
patents popped up both of them show a
bezel s phone with the display taking it
pretty much the entire front surface but
there's a question as to what basis
Samsung is covering here because one
time features various designs in the
rear but all of them feature a knotch
a display knotch on while the other
again featuring multiple designs does
not have a notch so it could be just
patenting potential form factors here
we're not exactly sure what this has any
what relevance this has to anything
galaxy has ten irelia because these
patents they're effective for many years
so up until the time that samsung is
able to you know commit and execute
executed sign like this i mean it well
those things will not be actively did
those things will not be I guess covered
so um I don't know I want to head off to
u Dominical for a second here because um
we're talking about bezel as we're
talking about notches we're talking
about vitriol that has been thrown
around because of this horrible you know
the design decision I wonder what what
your take is on it as we head forward
2018-2019 what you think will happen
well is it's weird I was very anti not
before I used a phone with a not for
more than five minutes
specifically the
the p20 Pro which I've got here I've
just finished reviewing it and you can't
see that it's got a not because I had a
black background there we go
so it's got a little one right there but
it's it's in a part of the screen where
you're very rarely actually looking
intently at it and well one of the
things I mean to jump right in there on
on your experience is using that phone I
think we're also looking at a slightly
different design philosophy from what
Apple extends the display out to because
even when the notch is visible on on the
p20 they still cut off your screen as if
that were a notification bar right so I
mean like if you expand a video and you
pinch you know you zoom in to have it
occupy the fullscreen the knotch doesn't
cut into your content when you're
watching that video right
no and I believe that's the only app
that actually happens and I need to test
another video app so I can was on
premise of that but if an application
doesn't have any specific optimizations
for the dynamic status bar so in like
Gmail your sass file tone read in place
or it turns green if an app doesn't
specifically have that hard-coded in one
of which is the Amazon shopping app yeah
it just has a black bar straight across
the top right because that to me became
one of the biggest one of the biggest
sins of the iPhone 10 yeah utilizing a
phone which they are using the metrics
on that screen to advertise this really
tall display when a good chunk of the
top end of that display really isn't
usable space by the consumer and cuts
into content especially for apps that
weren't designed around the notch or for
video content as you're streaming it so
it seems like android at least has a
better take on the notification shade
yet for trying to arrive at this but I
still have to ask I mean you you we were
talking offline talking about the the
p20 and all the things you liked about
it but is it that you like the phone
despite the not
or you like what they've done with the
design to incorporate parts of the
screen and now you're learning to love
the knotch
it's leaning closer towards the second
but it's it's less about loving the
notch and more about not trampa valence
which sounds very strange but like I
said it's okay this is this is very
specific to the p20 Pro I haven't tried
the essential phone and which I think
has a similar take on it it's a very
minimal thing it's just only the camera
module and that's what I mean by that is
the the knotch only extends as far as
the status bar right but no further and
where is the zenfone 5 the the iPhone 10
they will have very very pronounced like
very wide and quite deep notches which
for stuff that that isn't optimized or
suffers optimized poorly like we were
saying the YouTube app or it does take a
big chunk out of the screen and what
ends up happening on the p20 Pro is it
pushes up to the edge of the
notification bar and then it'll Rand off
the corners the same as the bottom and
because the p20 Pro does have a pretty
pronounced chin I don't know if you can
if you consider what ends up happening
is when you're watching video and it
doesn't quite go to the naught J words
hard and ends up making the screen
symmetrical are you sure you're only on
your first red wine cuz I I have a lot
of catching up to do if we're and it's
it's been a super long day painting
really takes that are you because that
that wipes me out it's it's silly like
yeah so when we're decorating a kitchen
currently and yesterday I did the garden
so see in the UK it's only just started
to get some semblance of heat so it's
the first cut after winter so I spent
about two and a half three hours in the
garden yesterday streaming cutting
cleaning the dog mess up from six months
of super gross yeah III my body's just
like can you just sit down for five
minutes you know and you know what would
be great to sit down with for five
minutes is like a really awesome new
smartphone so hundred-percent right
excellent
soso so for for the I mean to kind of
rope this back into the into the
headline do we have anything to fear of
a Samsung knotch
I I kind of feel the second Samsung does
it then a good huge chunk of the Android
majority are just gonna go and then a
couple enthusiasts will go well
Samsung's doing it because they've got
good reasons and then a tiny tiny
minority of people will go I hate the
notch and everything that not represents
but I'm still gonna buy Samsung and then
we're just gonna get on with our lives
until we can put this stuff directly
under the display and have an all screen
front face that's my hypothesis I mean
how long does it take there because see
if this is gonna be a recurring solution
for years and years that's that doesn't
seem desirable at all I mean from what I
from what I understand and I have a
couple of friends that work in the
display manufacturing display
manufacturing businesses as it currently
stands the camera is the only thing
that's not easily hidden behind a
display you can hide them behind them to
display and especially in LED display
but it's it's the only thing that's not
easily hidden and the reason why I say
that is you can't just like turn the
display clear for that one little part
where you want the camera when you need
to use it and obviously because it's a
no LED display it's not backlit you
can't like the the camera from behind to
help it shine through so it currently is
the only thing we can't really hide but
I think going back to what you were
saying earlier one yeah I think we'll
still see people once samsung do it go I
still hate it but I'm still gonna buy a
Samsung pen yeah I think we thought we
saw that when they took removable
batteries away when the SD cards which
they later relented on but like people
still continue to buy Samsung phones
despite all the stuff they've done that
people said they'd never stop doing and
that always seems to turn out not
exactly true no I it's a it's an
interesting turn of affairs I think what
we'll probably see is something that's a
little bit more akin to essentials
widow's peak because it's not even not I
mean it's it's this it's literally just
the circular housing for the webcam but
we could build AMOLED on top of all of
the bezel space surrounding that webcam
where if we could get to a point where
instead of having this unibrow effect I
think this would probably be a little
bit less objectionable but wherever your
notification bar is instead of it being
completely behind the screen we only
have the two circular cutouts we might
need four sensors and for the camera and
then we could just get on with the rest
of the phone being all front face
fingerprint sensor somewhere on the
bottom third of the display we don't
have any bezels so now these things
become insanely more fragile than
they've ever been in the history of
mobile computing but people will unless
you own a key one unless you want to key
one there's gonna be a huge market I
feel for specialty devices that nerds
are gonna rail on like oh oh the pencils
just make me throw up in my mouth
because it's not as immersive but the
majority of consumers who want that
really pretty all screen look will be
well satisfied and there'll be fewer
distracting elements like selfie camera
unibrow censor bars obfuscating our
notification shades I think that's kind
of what we're gonna land on I'll be
curious to see if Samsung goes with a
traditional hard battier whole like
notch if or if they find some way of
minimizing the impact on the top of the
display that would make me really
excited but
I mean I haven't had any problems
looking at galaxy s 9s and seeing a
little bit of a forehead in a little bit
of a chin I think this is a perfectly
reasonable solution for minimizing the
impact on the display and minimizing the
amount of stuff that you have to have
bordering your screen the chin on the
p20 Pro annoys me far more than the
knotch does I'd really like to see that
phone with a rear fingerprint sensor
after using humates
because because it it's such a narrow or
short sensor that it's got such little
surface area it's so it is smaller than
the swipe sense on the galaxy s5 Wars
and their reason for that was like it's
not a surface area we have to swipe but
I do this because I haven't I haven't
held the the p20 pro yet but I have been
spending a lot of time and I really like
the phone but I do have this one major
gripe my games locking up on it right
now
on the view 10 where we've got a really
big screen tall skinny device that when
I've got the phone well seated in my
hand for daily use and navigating the UI
using apps there's no way I can reach
that that front-facing fingerprint
sensor I have to balance shift an ultra
tall skinny phone in my hand to unlock
which is like one of the most basic one
of the most important aspects of using
that phone and especially as compared to
the mate where the phone and the screen
are on even before the phone is
completely out of my pocket
yeah are you finding that that the p20
you you've got that similar like hand
choreography's at more of a dance to get
that up and working yes so I have the
the mate 10 Pro and the the p20 Pro here
I agree with you a hundred percent
now imagine that that terror of having
to shimmy down your phone except it's a
900 euro phone yeah yeah I've noticed a
weird thing with the the Pete when he
broke the center of gravity is like
kinda off so when like
so it kind of is more top-heavy than you
think it'd be
mm-hm so when I just like pick it up my
thumb rests about a quarter of the way
at the screen so I I do actually have to
intently look for the fingerprint
scanner but like the time by the time I
put my thumb and lifted the phone up the
phones really woken up and the face
unlocks already blocked me
oh nice so the the face of this thing
off there so I unless I purposely I
don't
oh I bought an app early to say that was
the last time I use the fingerprint
scanner okay like for authentic for
authentication stuff like otherwise that
the face of luck is that good I tried to
fool it with a photo unlike a glossy a4
sheet mm-hm
as well as a high quality selfie one out
of ten times on the selfie it was
tricked and I could not trick it with a
photo of a track record there to do with
the resolution but yeah look you can
tell you can tell by the pixels I'm sure
they're all the pixels little little
tiny pixels yeah yeah and I would my
argument in this would be that you
should just do a small phone thanks Sony
and that's it so we'll move on and we'll
see what happens as this topic evolves
when the next generation of phones comes
in let's talk about the LG v 35 v40 OPEX
going on here and we did have an idea
about what this was all about last night
in terms of the V Thor 40 because that
was what Evan blast tweeted out first we
didn't have any context on oh it's it's
just storm but what was the picture like
for the V 35 or the v40 or yeah what was
this gonna be and it turned out like I'd
like tweeted about it you know retweeted
Evan glasses comment and then afterwards
he retweeted me and then just spilled
all the details about the timeline so
apparently the v35 think you it's gonna
be more towards the g7 yep mm-hmm
g7 thank you uh launch welcome may 2nd
and the v40 thank you yes yes yeah you
know you're welcome yeah okay good thank
you it wouldn't be complete without that
it's gonna be that with another thank
you how terrible the brand name thank
you as we would say it makes no bad yeah
it sounds like a rushed boardroom idea
and LG is better than this LG is better
than this what do you think about the
v35 I mean we've been talking about our
LG has been talking about this new
regime and how I had to cancel the g7
and and restarted from new and say oh
we're not gonna build more smartphones
than we absolutely need and like where
was that where has that gone where has
that idea that mission that Drive gone
and now we're just back into like the
churning of the butter
I mean they've definitely slowed down
we've only seen 20 that could have been
the same device that are in the lower
end segment so only 20 of them I mean we
don't need but this does feel I mean
like you're you're making a joke but to
me this this absolutely and I agree that
was a funny joke but this absolutely to
me feels like a company that's
scrambling you know these feel like very
reactionary moves not necessarily a
corporate culture which is looking from
the top down on reorganization structure
efficiency and focus and that's a that's
that's a scary place to be especially
for as much of a fan as I've been of
phones like the V 30 yeah you you've had
a pretty good time with that the the V
30 V especially back to like the the v20
I remember that is very videographer and
audio focused phone serving them say you
know in your background is there
anything that a v35 Rho V 40 could like
seriously do
for those core things CEO certainly III
would definitely love to see LG start
stepping up into larger sensor sizes if
they're gonna make the argument that
this is a videographer phone I mean your
experiences with the p20 camera
I think highlight a conversation we've
been having since the Lumia 1020 more
surface area is better for your
photography yeah p20 is a what so one
over one point seven inch yeah I mean
it's it's pretty I think just slightly
behind where we were with the 1020 which
was a 2/3 inch sensor which was also
smaller than the Nokia 808 which I never
really got to use I did and it was I
mean like again I've spent minutes with
it it's also funnily enough near
impossible to find yeah I I keep kind of
scouting out it's funny like just what a
wasteland eBay has become but I keep
trying to scout out from time to time
and I just never seem to land on finding
when getting my hands on one but I would
love to have one in my collection it's
like the museum piece but getting back
to LG I think one of their their biggest
issues has been not properly
communicating with consumers what
they're differentiators are so I would
love to see a manufacturer continue to
focus on class-leading audio I mean no
joke the best headphone jack audio that
you can have that this is not an opinion
this is not you know like a guess or
just something that makes me feel good
from a marketing perspective or a
company that bought out an audio
manufacturer and just slaps that audio
label on their products with no real
influence over the production of that
product I like is salty about that I
well yes we could save that for a whole
other podcast things that one gets pissy
about when it comes to audio gear but
but LG has has a couple really special
things here that we probably wouldn't
see anything revolutionary but we would
want to see them continue to iterate to
improve and to refine those ideas and I
think that is around but but that's
that's what I think they could do really
well with if we they were focused on the
thing
that made the V 20 in the V 30 different
from the competition and maybe they that
B makes them more specialist phones but
you'd walk into a conversation saying oh
well if you don't need the best then
that's fine then this phone isn't for
you
and that seems to really rankle
consumers if you go to someone who spent
$800 on their phone and you go like oh
yeah that's a good headphone jack but I
wanted the best you can watch them get
really bristle e like well my phone's
the most popular and you're like that's
fine that's great your phone wins but
it's not the best has the best screen
literally like totally completely
objectively you have literally the best
screen any smartphone and I always I
have the best headphone jack yeah
totally and and that to me is what's so
frustrating here I would love to see LG
go tick-tock
don't don't mess with the design of the
V 30 unless you three months unless you
can give me a different back I would
love to not have a V 30 in glass I would
love to have a V 30 in ceramic leather
metal any from bring back let the phones
please
Gigi for but without the boot loops but
yeah without cheese fruity boot loops
um but actually I just fired up my g4
I'm so grateful my g4 is still kicking I
love that phone I have the the oxblood
leather back for it and it's flippin
awesome but but don't mess with trying
to radically change the design of the
phone every year instead just give us
that one year on we get a new design
next year on we get refinement for the
tech inside but this new focus like
their their notion that they're gonna
win the day with AI is is such such a
bad play and their recent advertisements
for the V 30 like they actually had some
some well produced ads during the
Olympics it just didn't really tell you
anything about the phone it was all of
these Millennials being really
aspirational and you're like that's cool
but you know nowhere in any of those
advertisements did you show that this is
an ear professional videographer phone
that this is the the absolute highest
quality media consumption device
you can own and that you know it beat
the iPhone to a better design than what
the iPhone has you know look at it
because qua way is number two in the
pile and Samsung Samsung is more you
know kind of the just the leader and you
don't want to be copying Samsung as the
number two in Korea - Samsung LG wants
to look for something new with some
fresh ideas and where does it turn - I
think we turned to quali or to honor and
to their kind of youthful targeting and
whatnot - very poor you like split off
like a whole separate youth brand oh no
no not that is just the targeting what
they're doing and you know so honor is
just doing more of the kind of general
oh you can't have a flagship without you
can't spell flagship without a I that's
one of their things I saw this morning
and just little things like that there
are youth branded thing but that's but
LG is trying to incorporate some of that
into their system there and I don't I
don't think it's a good decision I don't
think that's a good idea especially when
in like the Chinese have a different
composure to marketing and like you very
nuanced kind of thing going on there
it's it's different it's a little more
stilted it's a little more kind of
objectified whereas if you're trying to
personalize and you know go to the
consumer and these are consumers who
most of them actually are consumers that
want to just watch a good video instead
of making a good one you like tell them
about your HDR screen or something like
that like that should be more on top of
the pile instead of think you oh go
ahead done sorry I was just gonna say I
really wish while we would have use you
can't spell flagship without AI for the
p20 Pro instead of Seymour with three
o's like like one of one of the cool
things when I have my pre-brief and it
was in a museum they take in like
one of the small meeting rooms over and
they'd put up their own photos on the
wall and then right at the end of the
presentation one of the PR people's came
out and said all these photos were taken
on the p20 Pro and people well that's
actually pretty amazing and it's just
like yeah they were taken by my
three-year-old
you know and and then you're like I'm
sorry what like that's that's it yeah
well we figured out that the AI is the
important bit but it's not important to
the end-user right well I don't need to
interact with the npu on my p20 on my
may 10 but if i open up the camera it
sees that i'm taking a photo of my niece
it automatically switches it into
portrait mode and then applies just the
right amount of background blur and then
takes it before I even thought about
changing modes which did recently happen
mm-hmm that's it the phone is a better
photographer than than I am it knows
that and I know that and it's nice to I
mean I wrote a book on it so it makes me
sad but you're not wrong so so you know
I have you played with the recent update
on LG phones adding AI camera and stuff
where they're trying to do the same
thing you point your camera at something
you start getting there's what spaghetti
outs coming up do you think that with
that being the focus would it matter if
LG put out three devices this year like
if we got a job a g7 follow up a v35
refresh and then a v40 at the end of the
year isn't this just a terrible branding
exercise like I really feel LG should be
focusing on one good launch of a big
little combination of I think LG just
needs to figure out what it wants it
does it doesn't doesn't want to be a
heavy hitter in the flagship field does
it want to be a mass-market brand name
like Motorola is in South America what
what does it want I can't tell you what
LG has really wanted since like Optimus
I'll world you want what it really
really wants
oh no all right so I'm off thank you for
joining us and this is the giant red
eject button moment of our vodka
I think LG actually was traveling in the
right direction with the g4 I think the
g4 actually got a good toehold on the
consumer mind chair it introduced some
really interesting ideas for the camera
for customization having removable back
plates and different ways to tailor fit
the phone to your fashion and LG also
was one of the primary most visible
victims of the worst chipset that
Qualcomm chips had generation that
Qualcomm has ever has ever delivered
with their own QA issues that
combination was yeah so unfortunately I
want to be excited about a new LG
announcement we're seeing rumors that
we'll probably be getting some word soon
from what LG might be might be doing
maybe over the next week but this is
another company that is that is kind of
traveled into the same territory that I
would I would put Microsoft to when it
comes to consumer devices there's a ton
of potential but man do they get in
their way
well enough to grec potential at almost
every turn yeah yeah the LG gets in the
way if itself and well there's no
helping in if it can do that it can only
help themselves good thing the rest of
the LG is actually doing decently well
so let's move on from that and let's
talk about the big story of the week
from the US and that is with ZTE and the
order from the Department of Commerce
issuing a denial order to ZTE basically
banning it from sourcing any parts be it
you know the glass the smartphone glass
sauna from Corning or Qualcomm chip sets
because those are made in made from an
American company or even perhaps
software that was made in the US so one
of the things was the tabouleh recently
had like their kind of story sharing
like my
Jools there of course the big elephant
in the room that what I'm talking about
here it would be Android but that's
still kind of in negotiations right now
Google and their ZTE are trying to get
their game together and meanwhile just
today we actually had the full statement
from ZTE come out I'll try and get
through some of it this is just a as I
see it
but as et has been working diligently on
Export Control and has invested
tremendous resources in export
compliance made some significant
progress since 2016 it is unacceptable
that the Bureau of Industry and security
insists on unfairly imposing the most
severe penalty on ZTE even before the
completion of investigation of facts
ignoring the continuous diligent work of
ZTE and the progress we have made on
expert compliance and it goes on and on
and on about its reasons now the thing
is is that this was a as I mentioned the
headlines this was going against some of
the law apparently the misc statements
are the false statements that they made
while they were agreeing to the
settlement that would see them being
fined 1.2 billion dollars they would
also have to discipline or fire or take
away bonuses from executives that okayed
the decision to trade with those section
countries just a whole bunch of them
like that the list could go on what they
might be thinking of right now is do
going for legal action perhaps as I'm
setting this up in court the thing is
that they would want to get an
injunction on this order get a stay on
this if they can do that that would we
would see business continued as normal
for ZTE in the meantime you know now
what if they can't that's what the big
issues here I understand that ZTE is the
number seven manufacturer of Android
phones in the world and that they mostly
have their business and telecoms that
it's about 90 percent of their business
is in telecom equipment but even those
items
have many sources in America so what
happens here could be a game-changer for
my safety easy I'd like to jump in Dom
like the ZTE have any significant
presence where you're at like do you see
their products out and about in the the
ultra ultra budget segments a sub
hundred pounds and yeah so the the
mobile market here is is is really kind
of different to the US where is buying
sim-free phones is you can you can
literally buy a SIM free phone in the
supermarket here like a standard
supermarket you can buy prepaid SIM
cards everywhere and it like I haven't
been on a postpaid contract in almost
three years just because it doesn't I
don't need to I get everything I need on
the prepay but one of the the larger
distributors is coffin warehouse and the
only time you'll really see ZTE phones
are the ultra cheap like your phone just
fell down the toilet and you need a
phone to contact someone because it is
it's really cheap maybe you can't afford
to pay out the excess on your insurance
so you can't quite afford to get your s8
fixed just yet but you have enough to
buy this quick phone so you can whatsapp
Facebook emails but that that is
primarily where ZTE sounds we don't get
the axon 7s and stuff of that I think
Vodafone just announced they're going to
bring the axon em for whatever reason
they didn't our surprise and they didn't
announce a date
they just said hey we get in it and I'm
like full game soon
there's like we're getting it and I'm
like you're gonna be keeping it - oh you
cheeky bastard see now you just dropped
the the once we're in this podcast now I
can't do it no no not not the once we're
so pg-13 in the United States means we
can drop one f-bomb but if if you want
to throw out like you know pisser you
know maybe even a I don't know what
what you know freakin iTunes Store Apple
podcasts cuz we are flagged I think is
as a as an adult for a doctor I mean
well that's yeah but maybe it's a it's a
per podcast that we can set that as well
a little inside baseball you guys here
and it's hat it's so much fun trying to
explain it all right
um but yeah you're I don't remember what
the point was basically ZTE isn't a
major player here and even on our
network side Huawei is a much bigger
player in the infrastructure
infrastructure marquee in in the UK I'm
not sure about rest of Europe by
definitely no UK UK wives Huawei far
supersedes literally anyone else yeah
and I understand that Parliament has
some questions and concerns about even
hallways presence in the grid yeah they
have a lot of questions for another
company which is something that's gonna
stay stay quite a bit longer but
basically there is some fears about the
way Huawei was getting carriers to use
their networks missing almost like a buy
one get one free type deal on their
network infrastructure so basically like
flooding the market with free
infrastructure basically yeah but no
especially when with the recent switch
to LTE in subtle that and caracaras had
to upgrade the technology in their their
towers and there was there's kind of
like is this anti-competitive is this
legal
you kind of underhandedly just gave
stuff away but didn't really give it
away and yeah I like that underhandedly
under dope so I mean this is still a
developing story because we're gonna
have to see how this works out with law
enforcement agencies and the courts but
at the same time I use me I wanted to
just kind of get your thoughts on this -
Dom we've been talking a lot about
gaming phones ZTE with the the Nubia red
trying to take a stab at that I recently
played around with a few Asus zenfone 's
and just trying to trying to just see
what they're about but you know that's a
brand that has a really strong gaming
presence do you feel that this is gonna
be a market segment worth tapping or do
you think that this is gonna be a fad
that kind of dies away after a
generation or two of playing with this
because I mean even Nvidia tried to play
an Android land for a while and
eventually backed back out of it it's
weird because I was at the the UK launch
for the razor phone in December mm-hm
and what whilst I was there this entire
tuck the entire time I'm like this this
is just gonna flop so hard but having
spoken to the the the the people that
work at the retail stores they're the
carrier that sells over here three
they're having a hard time keeping them
in stock mmm-hmm and genuinely I was
surprised because let's be real the only
thing that phone really has going for it
is the name and the kind of whacky
design that I will give it you know
having used it for a little bit
screen tech is pretty nice yeah
the reef the adaptive refresh of kind of
cool that's cool
literally everything else about the
screen is I don't to say sub pod that
sounds really unfair but I'll accept
I have it I should have used that know
that the way the screen was laminated
wasn't very good the actual exam panel
itself has really bad quality control
issues it's not very bright it like that
there are so many like meth things about
like the fact that they can run at 120
Hertz at all is amazing and it is really
great but that that what does the razor
phone really have it's the razor name
the weird design and those crazy
speakers and also project Linda but I
don't think you can really count I want
that so hard the desktop mode on my
huawei phones a lot I definitely do
okay we'll see but that that that I feel
is a little bit different so you're
using the desktop mode on your hallway
now what if you could only use the
desktop mode with your hallway in a
proprietary housing that then wouldn't
wouldn't work with other monitors and
desktops and keyboards that I'd be
really shitty um so that's that's why
I'm kind of skeptical of Linda I think
it's the same issue that we ran into
with Motorola like if I get this thing
it's only gonna work like it's an
expensive laptop enclosure that's only
gonna work with this one phone maybe a
follow-up phone and then I'm gonna have
to rebuy everything when I want to go on
from there I I I get really nervous
about any type of system which isn't
built on like accepted standards so
Huawei I plug in a USB C to HDMI cable
and I'm done that's it
and then even just for Android being
able to recognize external displays like
I can make a laptop out of any phone if
I have a couple cables in a bluetooth
mouse and keyboard Linda yes and just
some piss and vinegar
you know like Linda it looks really cool
but I I would be very nervous about
being trapped in a proprietary one-off
ecosystem and then not knowing if future
investments were gonna play nice with
that I think the the way you get around
that would be the way HP did it remember
the at the NVE early x3 I think it was
the Windows Phone that had the had the
continued
laptop dock and it was this laptop
showing you you could either do it by a
white gig or you FBC there let that's
that's kind of a thing but then it's
like alright so I have to use this
laptop with a phone plugged in or do it
wirelessly and then destroy my phone's
battery life but then I can't also put
the phone in my pocket because why gig
doesn't work through closed and well and
I mean it was like one step improved
over Microsoft's continuum dock for the
Lumia which you know that that again
like let's take a chipset that runs
really high charge your phone make your
phone phone run a desktop style
interface and your screen can ever turn
off yeah that sounds like a great idea
like let's do on a phone that's
literally gonna nuke itself after about
45 minutes of using let's do that on a
phone we're one of the big selling
features was we put a vapor chamber to
help cool it now I don't even know did
that I don't think the the smaller one
had that they said the 808 they used was
good enough oh no it's not
[Laughter]
speaking of chipsets ah oh boy what's up
what's with the Galaxy S 9 cuz I've been
here about the problems at the x-centers
and the stats are getting 45 like the
Xmas is supposedly worse by like a good
factor yeah so as as a massive CPU and
process technology nerd this was
incredibly surprising yeah well it was
late because there was no oh no yeah but
but there wasn't a like there was no
space efficiency going from the what was
that the 88 90 like last generations or
whatever over to the 98 10 and these
stupid numbers that keep they have
little meaning but like there was like
it was bigger even though it was on the
same fabrication 10 animators like
what's the deal
so basically Samsung is what's known as
an ARM architecture licensee
but they also have a design license so
there is whereas MediaTek can just take
the a53 and stuff like that Qualcomm
Samsung NVIDIA Apple they have a full
architecture licenses so they can just
create one from the ground up so the N
degree cry over the a series and the
Exodus yes yes Samsung phones are called
Mongoose they're in the third generation
m3 core and Samsung's one goal for the
m3 was to go after Samsung so they built
a very wide core what that means is it
can basically it can hear and understand
and process a fair few more requests
concurrently the problem with going for
a very wide core is it takes up a lot of
die space which dies are not very large
in let the silicon wafers or cells
you can only roll up to six and those
things right something like that you're
not actually far off a silicon wafer
itself if you can get a single
monolithic die bigger than like 600
square millimeters so you won't actually
just a few
yep and but know that the actual die
space itself so the the m3 core is very
wide and to kind of make it as fast as
possible Samsung kind of said effort to
the power budget and the the way they
got around that by still making it be
able to be put into a phone without
melting itself they basically the the
schedule of the weight gets told it's
chores is conservative yeah it's really
conservative so if you if you if you're
a really big nerd like me I don't over
to an antic they they are yeah so Andre
over there is doing a fantastic job of
literally from screw
at writing his own custom kernels and
devfs schedulers to fix the galaxy s 9x
not 99-98 all just gonna pour it out to
a kernel and then everyone had command
have at it
yeah that's great seriously thank you
but so this is this is annoying to me as
someone who was so hyped to finally see
Samsung do a fully custom call or or or
as fully custom as they've or they've
ever been and especially so this is
built on the a 75 which is a brand new
set of ARM architecture basically it
rewrites the way you connect the cause
so before you could only have multiples
so you can have two cores or four calls
a cause you could have four little and
too big for and for whatever the new one
is called dynamic this like thank you
it's a dy yeah
dy n a.m. and then in capitals IQ yep so
the the dynamic architecture allows you
to have seven low-power cause and then
just one super high power I need to get
this job done and then it can just go
back put it but it's it's it's on-off
right it's just one or seven right and
it completely depends on the
interconnect used and also the company
okay alright so lots of components going
into that and it's just an it's always
been the the guiding hypothesis that the
Exynos versions of Samsung phones were
better you know that especially leading
through the only time we ever got a
flavor of it I just pulled out my galaxy
s6 I found it in a box was you know when
Qualcomm completely pooped the bed with
the the
ten and we we here in the United States
got an X and O's powered Samsung and it
was a much better generation like I
think that that is a huge contributing
factor to the overall goodwill on that
phone redesign not only did we get
Samsung away from using really weird
feeling plastics on the back of their
phone we also got the best-performing
phone of that generation so those two
things going together totally wrecked
HTC and LG like I really don't believe
those companies ever recovered from that
year but it's really interesting to see
in one processor generation that
narrative almost completely changing and
now it would seem to me that one of the
major competitors to Qualcomm in terms
of getting powerful chip sets out with
bleeding edge feature sets would be
Kirin would be wall ways and they should
have an i silicon do you think that this
is do you think that this is gonna be a
one-off misstep from Samsung and that
the follow ups are gonna be better
refined or do you think that this is
fabrication tech which might take a
couple generations for Samsung to
unravel personally again knowing what I
know which it is this is one of those
weird things where you think you know a
lot and then you read into something and
you realize a little you know everyday
it's like wow there's so much I don't
know about this Wow the ten nanometer
process that Samsung are using for the
9810 is is the second generation I think
it's LPP said low-power plus the
original was lpe low-power early so it's
it could still be a few issues with
getting the yields and leakage on the
transistors I think this is more just a
an issue with the design team kind of I
think there's a bit of an Icarus moment
for them flew too close or some and got
bad I mean we always want to celebrate
some ambition but again
we're also the enthusiasts sector those
of us who are fans of this stuff for our
always gonna be really quick to savage
any company that mistakes it's about the
beds that payoff to them not the beds
that down so yeah it's that they always
play that risk but I mean facts are
facts so we move on from that and let's
say well I want to try and see if we can
combine the Apple stories here now the
it's not we're not calling this the
budget iPhone because this is still
gonna be iPhone 10 like it's gonna have
that form factor it's gonna have face
idea what not it's just gonna have an
LCD screen maybe less premium materials
but like we've been talking about this
for a quite a while now at the eight
hundred seven hundred eight hundred
dollar price point and this with this
latest Intel from KGI we always talk
about maangchi quo being one of the best
and one of the most accurate scanned of
supply chain analysts but 550 that
that's a left field kind of number there
right and I'm not run for saying that
you know I mean $649 was the longtime
benchmark right well don t do you think
that we're gonna see the the sort of the
follow up so this is again this is what
gets me crazy about fans is that we're
gonna sit here in debate names is it
really an iPhone 10 - is it an iPhone 11
is it an iPhone 9 what iPhone is it and
it's like it's the next iPhone we're
just it's the next iPhone it's gonna be
one of three with like you know the more
premium stuff they're like two premium
one premium because it's confusing okay
right but I mean like if we're talking
about a five hundred and fifty dollar
iPhone do we think this might be the
iPhone se I don't think so the iPhone se
was was it 300 350 though I know I think
it was more close to the 400 Bay in any
case I mean we've been talking about
that there's been an on-and-off thing
about the I thought I might be the
higher story cuz it launched with 16
we're talkin I mean the iPhone se 2 has
been talked about for WDC again
it
DC again it could be happening it could
be not but I mean this this is just
another iPhone mainline I don't know
yeah I think this replaces the the eight
so the smaller mainstream iPhone I think
one of the reasons why is the the eight
hasn't sold as well as Apple was hoping
from what I've heard Oh basically yeah I
think I think they divided their market
in a way that made their numbers overall
look good if you combine iPhone eight
eight plus and iPhone 10 sales again
Apple's still a machine to print money
but I don't think they got the clear
winner I think Apple executives were
really hoping one phone would stand out
and all of them I think have sold fairly
well just sort of similarly from what I
was told they were really sorry sorry
Jules from what I was hoping the eight
like the standard eight would have had
enough change you said the newer camera
the better screen the waterproofing the
wireless charging they were hoping that
would have been enough of a change from
the seven but know it is yeah even
though it still looked different they
had the gold colour the hell all of that
it was still the I still had the the
reputation of the smallest newest iPhone
and no one really wants the smallest no
like people I don't the plus all the
expensive not true that's me I any I
mean like I I'm never far from my iphone
se one v30
and then I had to send the perfect 800 I
found already say anything I can't say
anything I've got a p20 pro-am 810 and
keep one emotion but that's their life
really the average consumer so I mean
like I'm walking around with the combo
right now I'm kinda
moving back and forth between the view
10 and the V 30 but when I want to you
know catch up on what's going on Apple
that's why I also turned to the SE I
still think it's the best premium small
form-factor experience the next closest
competitor which is still a ways off
would be an Xperia z1 compact the x/z
yes the too compact is really nice it's
bigger than I'd like it to be and like
it's it's 12 13 millimeters
oh not even thickness wise the screen
just got a bit of a I think it's like
5.5 a bit of experience by one screen
which I kind of gather that fudge is the
numbers a little bit but yeah they I
would have preferred them to put a
closer to five ish inch 720p screen and
the exit to so I did look it up and you
guys were right the the iPhone se
launched at 399 and I was thinking of
the $4.99 price point for the 64
gigabyte version which what is option so
if if we're looking at that we're still
assuming there are gonna be three
devices does that mean I mean are we
really expecting to see a nice iPhone
that's gonna have an a hundred dollar
price cut over where we normally see a
smaller iPhone launch well I'm not sure
about the price cut I mean they could do
what like the iPhone 8 the iPhone sevens
it's typically a 649 749 somewhere in
that ballpark you know exactly let's
talk about it like you know the the
Omega print is yeah but the premium
let's look like there's the premium a
there's the premium B and then there's
like the mid-range or thinning for the
iPhone se and this would be a premium B
as opposed to a premium a that we're
talking about here and like well well
let's trace it back to the this year now
because you know the iPhone 8 8 plus and
the 10 worry like though it drove
revenues up integer and then drew all
the freaking metrics that analysts want
to see like average sales price and
revenues and and rally and even with the
diversified strategy Apple still met its
targets its though met its revenue goals
and what and it showed that a lot of
people were really interested or at
least a fair amount of people were
interested in the iPhone 10 or at least
the more capacitive variance of the
standard iPhone 8 now if this carries
out to be you know if this keeps going a
lot of forecasters are saying that the
iPhone the LCD version the premium B
version is gonna be the main driver
sales for that coming fall whereas the
premium ones are going to take a
backseat and the supply it sounds like
the supply chains already going for that
now if does Apple have a good idea is
this is this a good idea at this point
because if they do go on with their
current strategy and decide any you know
it turns out that people are starting to
warm up to the iPhone 10 and start to
warm up that OLED screen and all the
premium features and maybe just maybe
are able to live with $1,000 paid over
two years like the is this is this the
best play for them I guess I'm trying to
UM go ahead and take it he's just trying
to think man I'm I'm trying to how do i
phrase this without seeming like a real
bad Apple hater like what what would the
selling point be it can't just be here's
a new iPhone there's four of them pick
one like there's gotta be like the
iPhone 10 sting was look at this cool
display we've got an emoji like it's
made of stainless steel it's like a
really nice premium phone what was I
can't even remember what the selling
point with the se was was it like for
all those people wasn't I feel they they
nailed the commentary on that they were
looking
the year before the Essie launched they
detailed 30 to 35 million unit sales on
iphone 5s --is yeah so it was a market
that was still worth supplying some new
product and not you really rocking the
boat on what to do and especially after
their their tragic failure with the
iPhone 5c like that was a huge misstep
no one wanted that phone and no one
wants to feel like they're getting the
cheap phone so making an iPhone out of
plastic and gaudy colors made people
feel like they were getting a lesser
product and still I saw I thought a ton
of them but it didn't play well with any
iPhone 5 accessories yes so it became a
product unto itself in a spectacularly
fail kind of way the iPhone se ii you
got the SE and you could use iPhone 5s
cases and mounts and cradles and screen
protectors everything just worked that
that was a that was a significant
improvement on that mentality so can
they make that nostalgia play again two
years later well but the thing is I
don't think it was nostalgia I think it
was we have an issue with developing
markets we have an issue with developing
LTE areas we are way expensive when you
start doing you know racking up import
costs on these products and we need some
solution that can that can play in that
space it's never gonna be a flagship or
a crown jewel revenue generator for them
but you've got all these leftover iPhone
6 6s pieces that you can cram in there
for cheap you can knock out the same
frame because you know they've been
making the iPhone this is the same frame
since the iPhone 5 and you know you can
still make a profit on it it's a Tim
Cook device you know it's not an
inspired play it's not an it's not even
a call to nostalgia because it never
ceased being sold the iPhone 5 to the
iPhone 5s was continuously sold all the
way up until the launch of the se so
this is where I'm kind of curious if we
launch we have a three device strategy
for Apple 2018
we've got an AMOLED which is going to be
a premium phone I think is still gonna
land at a $9.99 price tag if not higher
does that mean that maybe what we'll
look at is psychologically positioning
an iPhone
se2 as the smaller phone and then a
larger cheap phone at a 650 dollar price
tag using LCDs and so now we've got the
iPhone we're not messing around with
iPhone this and iPhone plus an iPhone 7s
and iPhone eights and all these other
iPhones here's here's the nice phone and
then for those of you in developing
markets or who want a mid-range or
something with a little bit lesser price
tag but still want more current
technology here's the iPhone 9 which
would have been an iPhone se and an
iPhone plus of some kind and then that
also drives is the psychological screw
point where you can say like oh well
we've got a lesser phone if you want to
buy it but you know this is the really
nice iPhone that's friends that you can
spend a lot of money on a phone that to
me I think makes a really smart
psychological play $550 is mid-range
territory for Apple that that is a
mid-range err growl well I mean for a
lot of companies to it be upper end for
Android but you're still in the premium
mid-range territory with phones like the
galaxy s s9 plus and the galaxy but
mid-range flex it's it's the galaxy a
series for Samsung and and what a lot of
consumers look at and up-to-date
what a twelve chipset iphone with a two
by one aspect ratio display even if it's
an LCD as being a much nicer product
than a Samsung a series or even last
year's chip which is what they updated
to on the new iPad nine point seven I
mean ten is a considerable improvement
from there I want to run down a few
hashtag P and weekly comment since we
have a daughter let's do it we get to so
David Bautista DaSilva I highly doubt
Samsung will do not CH consumers would
turn on them hard like they did with the
s6 and Apple will call the man for
making fun of notches on that's nine
presentation and then doing one the year
after it would be a PR nightmare going
on to or an auto Laporte or excuse me
goran petrovic
first of all LG in terms of the the V
Series is stuck between brilliance and
dilettantism how
we figure out completes a complete great
FIFO no more super line in audio with a
cheap speaker please and from Ramallah
port over here in terms of many European
ISPs use ZTE modems in the Netherlands
phones aren't really a thing for ZTE but
trade laws are there to be followed like
it or not if you want to be in the game
you either play by the rules or make
sure not to get caught
although I'm never happy to see you less
competition even though I just like some
of ZTE policies so it's just a whole
basket of a comments there and yeah very
valid points indeed definitely good chat
guys I know we've been seeing some of
those comments coming in so apologies
we've just been chatting with Don
because Dom's pretty cool guy so yeah
you know I wish I could be we don't need
to lie for me guy well let's move on to
a Tim Cook speaking of a phone made for
Tim Cook apparently doesn't you just
want a an iPhone that runs iOS no this
Mac apps bullcrap going on here let's
get to the whole meat of the quote here
he again talked with the Sydney Morning
Herald about the rumored making apps
work with both iOS Mac OS as a platform
paradigm merge he said we don't believe
in sort of watering down one for the
other both the Mac and the iPad are
incredible one of the reasons that both
of them are incredible is because we
pushed them to do what they do well and
if you begin to merge the two you begin
to make trade-offs and compromises so
maybe the company would be more
efficient at the end of the day but
that's not what it's about you know it's
about giving people things that they can
then use to help them change the world
or express their passion or a spread
express their creativity
so this merger thing that some folks are
fixated on I don't think that's what
users want well let's talk about
convertibles let's talk about tablet
like the
this you know can table --tz-- let's
talk about the value proposition of the
iPad as I mentioned in the my write-up
of the article because when you add on
an Apple pencil which is compatible with
the latest you know budget iPad at 3:29
or however much you want to pay for it
depending on wireless and storage like
the minimum set up for that and a
keyboard is less than $600 which is a
pretty good proposition especially when
you already have a very healthy iPad app
ecosystem a lot of productivity stuff
but not a heavy weight stuff though like
Final Cut Pro no like Adobe Cloud
Creative Cloud apps so I mean when
you're one you want to combine the like
the horsepower apps with the form factor
what do you do apparently if you're
Apple you do nothing and you just make
sure that people are siloed and you're
able to you know extract most the most
out of each vertical that you are
working on
well Dom you love that's my there pretty
much your your favorite so man my wallet
is so thick full of Apple cash right now
exactly know what I'm what I think would
be kind of interesting where are you on
the spectrum of because you you really
like desktop mode on your wall way um
I've been a major proponent over the
last year maybe even two years of trying
to get people to do more stuff with
their phones you're gonna spend six
seven eight nine hundred thousand
dollars on a phone what are you doing
with it what can you do with it and you
know it's not acceptable to say like oh
well Facebook opens like a fraction of a
millisecond faster because I spent $800
on this phone as opposed to buying
something else like maybe a premium
mid-range err do you think apples
falling behind on this kind of
multi-user multi flexibility or more
services driven idea by trying to keep
these as two separate product lines
I think their hesitation makes sense but
them dragging this hills this long is
kind of maybe start becoming detrimental
Liza I understand their hesitation after
seeing what Microsoft did with Windows 8
they went all-in for a hybrid ecosystem
it backfired really badly and I get that
but Windows 10 like and with the
improvement in the surface pro like we
solve PC sales go up again yeah and
after five years of them tanking hard
yeah like hard and then app we use it as
an excuse to not put a touchscreen on
the MacBook there's that well fine we'll
we'll put a touch bar in middle way and
then it's actually when you think about
it how many developers have actually
specialized their programs or the touch
bar we saw a couple high-profile ones at
launch so we saw like Final Cut what's
the the music I think it's logic we saw
some good like Adobe traction on that I
think yeah but then like every day users
like what did what did chrome do better
with the touch bar like what what did
the Apple Mail app do better like oh you
can open up the emoji picker when you're
in iMessage on your MacBook now well and
especially because we're watching every
other ecosystem try and deliver I think
a services first idea Microsoft running
Windows 10 on arm Google looking at
where they can potentially and we're
gonna be talking about the pixel book
but also you know these little these
little tidbits of information between
Chrome OS and Android OS and a project
fuchsia which might blur the lines
between the two and then you know just
varying different ideas on unlike Linux
development to some really interesting
ideas coming out of there um with the
power that goes into an A Series chipset
I feel like apples
missing out on this tremendous
opportunity to further cannibalize sales
of products that are only doing middling
to well to really bolster the sales of
products that are already their bread
and butter I'm a husband really curious
like I have been really confused I
should say why they've taken such this
hard line divide between their Macs and
iOS
when max are woke performing woefully in
the overall PC market well it's it's one
of those things that I was looking the
other day what Apple's still sell but
for some reason the MacBook Air is still
sold and then we've got the 12-inch
MacBook and like further for the most
people that the MacBook Air is the
laptop they bikes it's the cheapest
whereas I think what most people should
end up getting is the 12-inch MacBook
and it's the better better overall
experience you get the nicer screen the
nicer Hardware quote unquote yes just
back there yeah I forgot this is not
always a video medium for everyone but I
think what Apple really dropped the ball
with is they were one of the first with
the the App Store the Mac App Store and
it kind of stagnated really early on and
now it's this wasteland of things and if
you think about it if they had properly
incentivized and gotten everything done
they would be able to put a system in
place so say they were planning to
refresh the 12-inch MacBook with an a 12
and it a custom a 12 call and they can
say fine you have an application in the
Mac App Store you cannot submit an
update or a new app until you have
recompiled and given support farm and
then then then you have every developer
in your store buy the bleep I don't want
to
and you have them by the van's
difference
yeah yeah and by the short and curlies
and you can you can basically just you
say oh do you want to play the game you
can you can play with we're not gonna
charge you to update we're not gonna do
anything that debt but you want to
submit an update you want to reach as
many users as possible do this one thing
for us you you recompile your app once
so it has the the right libraries and
everything and then that's it because
we're having a similar issue now with
all the old 32-bit apps in the iOS App
Store which are going to which are going
to be going away soon so it it feels
like if they hadn't dropped the ball on
on that the switchover would be a lot
easier but I also think it's something
Microsoft is gonna have an issue with
but they've they've approached it a
better way so you're speaking about
Windows 10 on arm only running on the
Windows Store apps but they've also
written in a win32 emulator which
support which performs surprisingly well
for actually it's not great but again
for what it's running on which is
essentially a a slightly overclocked
phone chip it want it runs
emulated code really well so I I don't I
I want Apple that I want Tim Cook to to
get it right because they do do things
really well there that the push to high
res displays to more color accurate
displays to these amazing trackpads that
we saw Microsoft step up with with the
windows precision drivers two cameras
which step which made Google step up on
the phones they do have this innate
ability to push other companies further
I don't think they have any reason to do
that on the iPad sides and like if the
Mac's will keep selling as they are
what what else are gonna people buy
besides an iPad which is now a lot
cheaper at 3:29 are you gonna you know
what you're gonna you gonna buy 7-inch
Windows tablet for $1.99 great
experience with that exact I have a few
like I got my yoga book which I use a
lot I have a galaxy book but those are
600 and 1200 pound devices Megan right
my and sharing some lenovo love no I I
just I'm I'm kind of nonplussed I really
felt like we were all marching towards
this direction and the overwhelming
financial success for Apple in the iOS
space would have prompted a move more
aggressively than this and this is
awesome to me I think one of the major
detriments of having Tim Cook at the
head of Apple is that he's not a bold
Big Idea design guy he's a you know make
all of the he's an amazing operations
guy you want him to walk into China and
get preferred manufacturing deals from
companies and to put out product lines
that are gonna be insanely profitable
he's your dude but I think this becomes
a massive blind spot in the organization
at the top of the company and and again
why we've seen over the last I don't say
the the last two years for Apple making
as much money as they do investors still
get really squirrelly about their Apple
portfolio the Apple stock in their port
portfolio because it's so heavily
dependent on a very narrow band of
products and we don't see Apple thrown a
lot of cash at skunk works at the future
really driving what the next phase of
consumer electronics is gonna be
they've been highly reactionary since
the iPad Mini
they've been playing catch-up on
products and they when they do enter the
market they do well Apple home pod
notwithstanding but that that also I
like home
I think is actually a perfect example
Apple doesn't get to just walk into
every market and declare themselves
victorious they take they're starting to
take a few losses on this really
conservative strategy of delivering
after the market has already been
established by other players so this to
me like would seem like a no-brainer
they've already been trying to
streamline OSX you know the whatever
trying to make max feel more like iPads
so why not just push over into running
iOS applications it more directly on OS
X gear and then starting to blur that
line on the iPad side to just seems like
that would be a really easy way to avoid
the trappings that Microsoft fell into
with Windows 8 I think of it I'm sorry
quick comment from the YouTube chat here
from christian dior devera any kind of
swift conversion the terrible tedious
process of compiling your code to
support any new features is a pain Apple
should really fix some of the issues on
the developer side go ahead I I think
one of the reasons they don't want to
pull iOS apps to Mac OS or whatever it's
called these days is they if if you
allow iOS apps to be downloaded run
everything on Mac OS devices you have
you open the possibility of them being
optimized for those devices so imagine
like having a game in the iOS App Store
that is they're supposed to be run on a
MacBook Pro that is something you open
yourself up to yeah but but then we've
also been hearing you know I'm you know
you're not wrong but I'm also a little
less concerned about that eventualities
like this
morning I pulled up my humble bundle
account and fired up a steam code that I
had forgotten to ever apply for
fieldrunners - and it's a game that runs
that I bet I got for Android but there
was a steam code attached to it there
was a separate sort of development port
offered for PC fired that up and like I
was playing one of my old school
favorite tower defense games in a couple
minutes I'm not too concerned about
there being a back and forth travel
between you know little phone apps and
then larger professional or more serious
desktop grade applications and I think
our portable devices have gotten
powerful enough to again MU optimizing
with Swift involved totally I'm grossly
oversimplifying the developer side of
the equation here but when it comes to
what the consumer interacts with and
what they hope to get out of that
equation or out of that relationship it
doesn't seem to me that it's an
insurmountable challenge to have more
carry over services that travel in both
directions from mobile more traditional
arm powered mobile devices to x86
powered hardware and especially since we
know Apple is going to be working on
their own chipsets they're gonna try and
walk away from the Intel ecosystem
that's the perfect opportunity to say
here's a unified base here's a unified
platform I can only think I can only
think of one thing
Apple would need Intel for these once
they was they ever switch because Apple
has custom cause they they have a GPU
design portion they have SSDs they have
SSD controllers they have the only thing
I can really think they'd need Intel for
would be a modem rode on a train in
Intel still have the best Wi-Fi stuff
but even further on in LTE modems I am
trying to capitalize a Qualcomm
especially if that legal dispute they
have with the ante could put
anti-competitive loyalties
blow up yeah and your face kind of thing
it's a similar thing to be on a much
smaller extent for Apple but it's it's
like Samsung Samsung makes screens they
make processes they physically design
and make the processes they also make
RAM they also make SSDs they also have a
metal fabrication that they have their
own element called metal 17 well like
yeah like Samsung like they have a radio
business one of the few things Samsung
don't do is GPU and like yeah don't they
rely on the stalker arm thing yes
yeah the MAL equals bommali yeah which
would in Chinese means horsepower by the
way does it no yeah I think it's funny
what if you say the Mallee fast enough
it sounds like you're saying Tamale
and I haven't had lunch yet so I mean
it's 20 to 10:00 in the evening of the
yeah I think we should probably try in
the speed up the rest of this because
man I didn't expect that we'd be talking
for this long about yeah how dare you
your conversations on pod dare you have
listening content man let's quickly go a
speed round on the blackberry 9900 bold
9900 would you want to see that maybe
with Android I mean we're talking about
more of a squished key one screen and
more cubes already too long Dom 200
block there we go
yes or no wait I want one I think it'll
be I was gonna say especially with TCL's
expertise on idols and stuff I would
love to see a 200-dollar blackberry I'm
from from what I've heard four people
inside blackberry like inside the TCO
portion of blackberry they're they're
really trying not to hit the nostalgia
note for like
they have the key the key series is what
they call it internally the key series
um which is probably an indication to
something later on who knows but if you
as if you take the key one aside no
other blackberries look or feel like old
traditional blackberries no no the moat
the motion is a complete tank it is
impeccably crafted with absolute
piss-poor design like station of a bad
design is that what you're saying yeah
it's like it could have been so good
didn't make him how the like the put the
the Indonesian house or something no
that was no that was still teasing well
yeah so it is weird because like I
recently thought TCL were the only
licensee of the BlackBerry no but in
like Jakarta and stuff like that it is a
separate company internally in that
country that is basically buying the
tooling from another company and
recreating a key one inside that they do
have a few regional houses and even John
Chen mentioned maybe actually talked to
a another house and tell him to build
this so I mean it to be an Android phone
I like totally get that
but one of the things I saw MWC was
selfish healthy being there getting it
running on lower and lower and hardware
but also they're really pushing the
security aspect yeah and say you could
do a 9900 or a blackberry classic type
thing or if you wanna get rid of the
school belt and just do like a q10 type
thing yeah the slave because with the
the where's the button there was the
central button on the 900 II had the
older one that got yeah and God like
Pablo your finger junk yeah but I mean
as long as that doesn't happen and you
like you because it's it's a swipe it's
a
you have to pull down to get all to the
men get to ya of anywhere this is my
wife's old curve in the trackball on
this it's kind of a puke amber yeah my
my pearl a c100 I think it is the
original pearl of upstairs the the
chrome fascia ring is completely gone I
think the only thing holding the
trackball in is just like years of rot
but likely be poor doesn't work I ended
up charging it from one of those docks
because they had the contact pins on the
back and like III used an abused
BlackBerry's which is why I actually do
kind of want this 9900 refresh going but
I think if he was really didn't want to
like go Android route I could definitely
see a 9900 with selfish years of grub
either way my latest album on Bandcamp
please abort me you can go I was one did
you have your opinion on this
oh yeah I'm I'm I was I was done I'd
like okay if we can now seven at around
that $200 price point and make it as
nice as it is then I don't see any
reason why we couldn't have a focused
lean work communicator device that could
sell really well from BlackBerry's team
like an actual decent work burner phone
that like an employee like if
corporations weren't looking at key one
with interest and I think they missed
out on a pretty significant opportunity
to have a focused there's there's not
much that would prevent blackberry from
doing that at $2 yeah so good hopes
there let's talk about not phones for a
few minutes
well I'll just run down the stories here
on air apparently has a new laptop just
like Huawei is doing with its newfound
laptop initiative it's doing the magic
book latest Intel Core 8th generation ie
chips going over there and all the
little fancy stuffs thanking have gone
huh
$100 on her laptop thumbs-up thumbs-down
god I need to I need to break out my
inner white girl but I want this left
[Laughter]
like I know I shouldn't want it because
it's nothing about it is super
interesting that's kind of why I want it
yeah you probably don't have discrete
graphics I mean yeah but but it's like
so does the the Xiaomi laptop on that
price yeah that's right but I mean it's
like I'm probably I'm probably gonna
have an easier time important the Xiaomi
one than this on a book which is
probably not gonna be seen outside of
China well I mean in owner has makes
more of a case for its presence
elsewhere like in as you know Asia
Europe and all the rest and they want to
be in the US but I'm not sure if this is
like what cuz this is new for them and
you know who knows what the product
strategy is no I actually that I think I
agree with Dom I think because it's new
it's probably gonna be a very limited
release yeah okay sadface for that any
quick opinion on that - oh me i again
it's it's i would like to see just a
little bit more brand cohesion on where
honor does business what product lines
people have access to the view 10 is a
nice step in the right direction i don't
know that they've fully created like for
example you talk about honor and people
will still talk about huawei it's not
the same kind of separation for
Westerners at least it's not the same
kind of separation that we see from like
Oppo and other products that may or may
not be influenced or built alongside
Oppo products it it's gonna be a hard
conversation separating out why you want
an honor badge on something as opposed
to a huawei badge where there's a lot of
overlap between the two brands but
ultimately what I would like to see is
this company continuing to iterate and
delivering more competition for some of
these products sectors getting to spend
some time with the the mate book that
that's a really nice laptop I really
liked the what little time I got to
spend with it
so it would it would be nice to see
something that can get us really close
to a mate book and again offer some kind
of price performance benefit to
consumers who maybe don't need all the
bells and whistles that's that's a very
competitive space and I think it's
always good to approach that with some
healthy optimism go ahead sorry it's the
last little thing as much as I hate the
noir way like clamshell logo I
definitely prefer it to the honor logo
looks like it looks like that bubble
font you used to see in like comic sense
it's not Comic Sans
open source word clones I think I think
it should be pirates they could have a
tie-in with avatar it would be amazing
now they hope that no way that was
that's one plaster I was about to say
Avengers well they could have like
Prince Zuko on the back and he needs to
get his honor back so not that avatar
the real avatar not not the last
airbender will will forget that they
ever exist oh I'll bend your air ok
pixel book before this podcast rounds in
its own juices pixel book being used by
Google as a good testbed it's I mean
they were talking about USB drives full
fuchsia and whatnot and now they're
talking about making the pixel book
running in Windows 10 of course it has
Intel processors and all the whatnot for
for that but right now we're only
talking about the pixel book this is
specific to the pace book well in in
terms of the alts OS is what it's being
called OS UI where you could just shoot
or like turn it on and choose your thing
operating system from the BIOS so um
good bad should Google keep in this vein
like is this is this something good for
the system Dom town is something good
the pixel book has sold surprisingly
well from from retailers mine
yeah but for what when you think about
it what is it it's a Chromebook yeah
that that's it it's an expensive
Chromebook and it like it's not
something that you think you'd read apps
yeah but this is selling better than any
pixel before primitive pixel before it's
it'll be interesting to see certain
things like Windows running like you
could always do it before when you put
it into developer mode unlocked a
bootloader you can flash up into and
stuff but it would be interesting to see
like windows type stuff running not
through VMware or something I just don't
see where this is gonna be a killer app
I think we've long passed any consumer
benefit for dual booting devices I think
an enthusiast thing it's fun and I think
it's literally for internal development
and and like anyone who is gonna play
with this like another developer might
want to be able to switch back and forth
between operating system user systems
and UIs and stuff like that but if
Google is trying to make a good-faith
play that the pixel brand is consumer
facing then I don't I don't see where
this is this is kind of a non-story to a
degree it's not gonna change a lot of
consumer behavior it's not going to be
something that convinces people to pick
up inexpensive Chromebook they're gonna
pick up an expensive Chromebook because
it's priced competitively against a
MacBook which means it's good now and
that's why they'll buy it if when it was
cheap it was cheap and that's bad but
now that it's it's a MacBook it's a
Google MacBook now it's good and then
it's good and it's got the experience to
match in very limited minutes worth of
hands on I'm not faulting that it's
whether or not we're valuing a system
that used to make its case for like
education markets on $300 acer's now as
geeks and as enthusiasts
we're asking what do you bring to the
table at four times the price of an Acer
that really benefits the Chrome OS
ecosystem the thing that I would be
really interested to see though is if
the pixel book becomes the tip of the
spear on something like a next-gen
operating system where we really merge
the the the app ecosystem benefits of
Android with the proper desktop browser
grade experience of Chrome OS on
hardware that can really competently run
anything that you might want to throw at
it with that excite developers on taking
this more seriously and making fuschia
whatever next-gen Google operating
system a true Microsoft Windows
competitor because Microsoft's having to
work at it from the opposite perspective
they're trying to get back into mobility
any way they can and my Windows 10 on
arm is interesting we might we've been
hearing rumors about Windows going free
for a long time of it becoming a free
operating system that then Microsoft
makes their money through other types of
services and licensing so those types of
things like we're watching Microsoft and
Google meet in the middle while Apple is
like you know sucking a lollipop in a
sandbox like in the next neighborhood
over not really paying attention to
what's going on that to me would be the
biggest argument in favor of some kind
of alt o s would be your your pixel book
investment now comes with the the
next-generation platform for what we'll
all be running in five years that would
be I think an exciting turn of an
exciting development but again an
exciting development for enthusiasts
people who want to use the products they
want to use them they don't want to
experiment with them you also get the
best keyboard I've ever used my laptop
oh it's really nice it's such a nice I
do have to do with the coating on it
like it's it's not like a soft touch
rubber it's a weird coating on the keys
but they are so nice but I will say I
mean like it's really really nice
I can't go with you with the best cuz I
miss the older
Keir keyboards we used to get on
ThinkPads I just got that chunky it's
like really big key cap feel again I'm
back on a mechanical keyboard semi
perfectly not typed anything this entire
time I mean I'm sure likes people has
driving people nuts whenever I do like
reply to a tweet or something in the
middle of the podcast but it's so nice
and I would love to have that kind of
feel even though I know it would cost me
a couple millimeters of thickness on my
on my laptop the Apple way of the
butterfly switch yeah okay lastly
because this is the one that that's
upsetting me the most I have been so
crazy excited for Intel vaunt this is a
pair of glasses that look like just
really chunky you know regular sunglass
or you know reading glasses frames had
these tiny little laser projection
systems built into the frame that could
project an image onto the back of your
eyeball this was gonna be for me like
that way that we get away from the
Google glass Borg implementation of face
computing and bring a are the real no
camera no no no that stuff and it was
very not intrusive no pan bear
completely pulled the plug and again
it's just resetting where I've been
incredibly frustrated with the state of
wearable technology bio-organic
implementation of user interfaces
smartwatches are not getting the job
done we needed to take that next
evolutionary step Dom well anyone give
us some type of eye level heads-up
display that doesn't make you look like
total dork no I'm sorry night I sold um
I believe in the cyborg future like get
rid of this useless flesh vessel like so
many of my body parts are broken I've
got bad eyes I wear glasses like I
literally have muscles missing in my arm
like so much of like me is broken let me
augmented that way I like thanks screw
it I'm gonna be able to get like contact
lens
that have the smart stuff in it like
maybe it doesn't even need to be a full
heads-up display but one of the things I
remember seeing that interested me so
much just because I have a family
diabetes if my family was verily the
health section of alphabet had something
in development which was contact lenses
for diabetics that had a little LED in
the corner and it measured your blood
glucose levels through your tears and
and the corner of the contact lens would
light up in your periphery if you went
too high or too low and stuff like that
so maybe maybe you could do a thing like
that like so first person shooter your
blood sugar starts too much and you'll
start to see a red rim like in a
consumer version of that you could have
like like the rim going around and you
could have it color coded for different
applications so maybe like maybe fitting
with those smart rings that the don't
had displays they just have different
color LEDs different patterns this is
why I wanted mine because then you could
also just project text directly into my
eyeball without having like Locutus
they're like stuff on my face it would
just be like a normal pair of sunglasses
and I wanted that so bad what's not even
know it's like why are we still on the
monitoring phase of like all this
indicate of tech like you know like
can't we find a way with you know just
implement something that I can just
automatically automates and not being
redundant they're automatically
regulates
that kind of thing like you know just a
maybe an implant or like a little
something I don't know no apparently no
apparently the answer from Intel is
we're killing the project and you you
don't get any any this is the first
thing that they killed and everyone
hated him for it well I mean Google read
[Laughter]
so much sadder and crankier than Google
Reader and Google Reader was was was a
pretty tough blow
I think I guess it's just how quickly
they killed this yeah wasn't it like
what four months three months there was
only a few marks and they got like a
pretty respectable amount of buzz like
people seemed tentatively very positive
on this any company that walks into the
space I'm sure is playing the we don't
want to be the next Google glass game we
don't want to be the you know Scoble in
his shower with our product problem that
is I searing that is and you know Google
put this into the hands of bored geeks
with more money than sense and those are
the worst evangelists to try and launch
a new product so I know anyone who's
looking at doing something in the space
is desperately trying to avoid that but
that's also what I think was so sad
what's so sad about this is Intel had a
conversation going that was far more
positive for how conservative people are
with this type of face computing it got
us over so many of these hurdles and I
know it was super early and it probably
wasn't as high-techy cool as we were all
hoping it would be but it was a huge
step in the right direction and now it's
gone and that sucks so bad because it's
gonna also reinforce why another
manufacturer shouldn't even try you know
like they're all gonna slow play it when
no one's really working on it in any
kind of earnest and at the same time
it's like it's not like my Android wear
watch experience has gotten any better
well I could tell that this was coming
with the whole that way that they
treated the basis peak but yeah it's
it's sad I think what makes me more
upset is when I when I heard about this
news I instantly like you I went and
thought back about Google glass and I
went on YouTube and I found the original
advert for Google glass from the they
showed that eioped remember when you guy
wet the guy went to the book shop found
a way to learn ukulele went to a coffee
shop went to the rooftop and liked video
called his girlfriend and that played a
song ukulele like that's still getting
anxiety
or something yes I'll send it's either
you or Jules nigga put it in the show
notes or something like that but it it
like it still makes me excited that we
could see something like that because
that still seems so cool like see like
if you did have a minute I said I wear
glasses already if I could have an
invisible like out like monochrome LED
display like laminate between these
glasses and then like I could oh you're
getting a someone's calling you you get
like a phone icon that like vibrates and
it says like Jessica I don't know
whoever's calling in or like if you're
doing that 10 by 10 navigation it's just
got like the arrow feet turn left it
doesn't need to be full-color like
really rich brick track yeah yeah but
this is even more excited about vine is
that you didn't even need the lamination
process of having a display it was it
was like if they were just gonna beam
this information into your eyeball which
is such a novel solution to the problems
that these companies have faced in
trying to build some type of prism or
you know really making a glass or a
built-in solution that that needed to be
battery-powered
you know and again those those like
little laser projectors taking up less
energy so you'd probably be able to get
away with smaller batteries on these
products and it's just so frustrating
that that that didn't seem to garner
more buzz you're showing me something
here and it looks super cool this is a
product called the evident glyph now oh
this does exactly what you're saying it
doesn't have displays it has two micro
projectors that beam directly onto your
eyes and it's a pair of headphones so
I'll put them on a set this off very
huge pair yeah that's what he said
really cool Geordi LaForge that's $1,000
gone plus like eight 50s I know that
what I got these um
but it's basically just an HDMI display
yeah so anything that's HDMI you can
plug into it so I have it plugged into
one of my raspberry PI's which is
attached to mine s so if I just want to
watch your film I could just what's that
and it's way more immersive and unlike
VR it doesn't take up your entire field
of view you can still see above and
below but it's not distracting at all
because you're not looking at a screen
it's being projected onto your eyes and
even for someone who wears glasses the
lenses are adjustable you can change the
the interpupillary distance and all
those weird things to make it look any
its own only 720p but dislike with
actual projectors and pointing to
attribution and resolution doesn't
actually matter as much as it does on
TVs you know in a weird way one of the
things I I've done a lot of recently is
starting to review projectors whether it
be home theater projectors or mobile
ones and I've noticed that the newer
mobile projectors that use laser LED
diodes LEDs is a bit of a just whatever
and they led him to a Lea machine later
yeah like that only 720p resolution and
it's only 700 lumens but I had it
projecting an 80 inch image with the
curtains open and I could still sit and
watch TV nice like the conventional ways
of thinking about brightness resolution
field of view don't they really the
rules don't actually apply in the same
way right on all right um I think any
pieces yeah a healthy amount of
discussion that we've just had there I
think everyone will you know you should
try and consume or imbibe some type of
specialty mind-altering substance
to to toast the end of vaunt as we're
all very sad about that many people even
more sad than I am sadder than I am
because it's just a tragic loss for our
ecosystem and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be
really cranky about that for a while yet
I think we're getting to the time we got
to wrap up this podcast
Dom thank you so much for for joining on
this week's show where can people find
you around the internets where do you
produce and what do you have coming up
for for the for your channel so you can
find me at mobile underscore Tom on
pretty much all important social media
Twitter Instagram all that lot you can
find my my written works over at mobile
Tech Talk code UK where I've just
published my p20 Pro review and in the
post in there in the pipeline I have my
review video for the p20 Pro being
edited on the p20 Pro in desktop mode
which is one of the things I really
wanted to do so when I started getting
these phones that could do desktop modes
I pledge to write the reviews on the
devices themselves and if I can't with a
phone that does such good photos and
videos at the p20 I wanted to try and up
the ante even my wholeheartedly agree
that was my Vegas challenge for CES was
doing everything from the phone so I'm
happy to see more people taking up that
challenge and lastly I'm revisiting the
BlackBerry motion it's recently gotten a
few software updates that have taken
this device that was a I mean if you
really don't want a keyboard it
blackberry by this I guess - a phone
that is actually really fast
Stella battery life it's totally turned
advice around so I think it's only fair
that I give that another look so yeah
gorgeous alright folks um I want to
thank everyone who was watching
especially all the people sending us
comments shout outs on the the YouTube
live stream and the p-n weekly hashtag
but
we gotta bounce so this episode of the
PocketNow weekly has come and gone the
show is ending but the conversation
continues on Twitter where DOM is at
mobile underscore DOM and also check out
mobile tech talks and really cool stuff
coming your way there Jules is at point
Jules and I'm humbly at some gadget guy
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