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US vs. ZTE: a fight for survival | #PNWeekly 301

2018-04-20
and we are live this week on the p-n weekly a storm is brewing over at LG may be a potential LG v40 codenamed the storm which is where I got the pun about a storm brewing at LG the United States bans ZTE from sourcing parts after violating sanctions we might see a proper iPhone mid-range err sporting an LCD and Intel kills the vaunt to the wailing gnashing cries of my terrible terrible sadness we've got a lot to talk about so make sure you're charged and ready for episode three zero one of the PocketNow weekly recorded April 20th at noon pacific time this day holding no special significance for anyone in our audience I'm sure this weekly podcast is where we dissect and discuss gadgets the gadgets that make our lives mobile smartphones tablets and wearables it's all the stuff you wished existed when you were a kid and will someone please hurry up and deliver some kind of heads-up display computing platform for consumers without killing it in the early stages of face computing tech because we need something like that Intel Google Microsoft anybody please I'm begging you I'm Juan Carlos back now contributing editor at pocketnow.com joined as always by my plucky podcast producer mr. joules one on the east coast how's it going sir okay there one you sound like you're a little bit desperate for something I yeah i am i'm i'm significantly more upset about intel vaunt than I think I have any right to be but well we'll get to that in the news block I'm sure indeed and we'd also like to welcome our guests here on the pocket net weekly host of the mobile Tech Talk podcast it is Domenico Lombardi hello to you sir with the cheers for your red wine nice to have you nice to be on hey guys it's nice to speak to you guys again I haven't spoken to you in a while yeah it's been a minute now now Dom Dominique Oh Dominique oh Lamberty I mean I don't want to make sure I'm getting I'm getting right is that culturally insensitive is what I'm is what I mean I couldn't be culturally insensitive if I have if three of my four names are Italian and I have the most British accent possible I'm not sure basically you're saying your name is cultural culture appropriation is way pretty much yeah I like that rule I appreciate well you know my first and last names and one the English name is James and you can you can kind of guess what the the third very at some other time well we'll play it some other time but I thank you for joining us on the pocket and weekly this week we've got a pretty decent news block for us to chew through too so I'm glad that you're gonna be here to help us unravel it all of course as we're jumping into this show we want to extend that that shout out to the people watching our livestream people who are on Twitter you want to join the conversation drop us some comments and you can tweet at us with the p-n weekly hash tag it's the easiest way for us to catch your comments make sure they make it into the show if you're listening to the show after the live broadcast of course you can always contribute to the conversation via the emails podcast at pocketnow.com or we'll pull some selects the end of every month to do our listener mailbag round up episode make sure you want to join the discussion there that's how you can also join the discussion Jools we've got like I said we've got a crazy news block why don't we jump right in see what's going on in the world of news the top headlines from pocketnow.com big news this week for the week of April 16 2018 this is all the mobile tech news that is fit to podcast we start off with leaks reporter Kevin Blas placing LG's v35 thin Q and V 40 thank you released online and they happened about me and 2018 the v35 is expected to launch around at the same time as the g7 thank you would you will likely be or haven't may with minor hardware improvements from the V 30s thing now now the v40 meanwhile is said to be scheduled for late summer or early fall no hardware details about that project which is codenamed storm just yet the Department of Commerce has issued a denial order to ZTE placing it on a list of foreign companies that cannot source items hardware or software from the United States this comes with government claims that ZTE admitted it had failed to discipline senior staff after had been penalized for violating trade sanctions in 2012 doing business with companies in Iran Iran and North Korea in a full statement the Chinese telecom firm says it wants to resolve this situation but may resort to a lawsuits will cover more of their statements coming up in a few minutes out of three new iPhones set to debut in some tender it's now believed that the least expensive one with an LCD screen couldn't be not as pricy as we first thought well known Apple analysts maangchi quo of KGI securities has suggested that this model could start not at $800 as first suggested but around $550 and for the first time we could see a dual sim variant starting at $650 this as we're learning about Apple's CEO Tim Cook's comments made it to the Sydney Morning Herald about a rumored platform merger between iOS and Mac OS during the private iPad launch event in Chicago computer responds to the fixation quote unquote this topic Cook said that he would never consider it quote trade-offs and compromises to make apps work on both platforms Chinese brand Nubia has launched its red magic gaming smartphone with the Snapdragon 835 but it also has an RGB light strip and costs $400 also this week a soos has announced that it is developing a gaming smartphone we may soon see the first republican gamers are owed he found at some point but there's no firm timetable on this blackberry CEO John Chen likes to talk about his desires it seems one of his latest fancies is a revival of the bold 9900 one of his favorite keyboard phones in an interview he said that he wants it very basic very secure and about the the cost of about 150 to 200 dollars and it seems like one of his off the off the cuff ramblings there but it could have si finally the Galaxy S ten is back in discussion after a couple of design patents popped up both of them show a bezel s phone with the display taking it pretty much the entire front surface but there's a question as to what basis Samsung is covering here because one time features various designs in the rear but all of them feature a knotch a display knotch on while the other again featuring multiple designs does not have a notch so it could be just patenting potential form factors here we're not exactly sure what this has any what relevance this has to anything galaxy has ten irelia because these patents they're effective for many years so up until the time that samsung is able to you know commit and execute executed sign like this i mean it well those things will not be actively did those things will not be I guess covered so um I don't know I want to head off to u Dominical for a second here because um we're talking about bezel as we're talking about notches we're talking about vitriol that has been thrown around because of this horrible you know the design decision I wonder what what your take is on it as we head forward 2018-2019 what you think will happen well is it's weird I was very anti not before I used a phone with a not for more than five minutes specifically the the p20 Pro which I've got here I've just finished reviewing it and you can't see that it's got a not because I had a black background there we go so it's got a little one right there but it's it's in a part of the screen where you're very rarely actually looking intently at it and well one of the things I mean to jump right in there on on your experience is using that phone I think we're also looking at a slightly different design philosophy from what Apple extends the display out to because even when the notch is visible on on the p20 they still cut off your screen as if that were a notification bar right so I mean like if you expand a video and you pinch you know you zoom in to have it occupy the fullscreen the knotch doesn't cut into your content when you're watching that video right no and I believe that's the only app that actually happens and I need to test another video app so I can was on premise of that but if an application doesn't have any specific optimizations for the dynamic status bar so in like Gmail your sass file tone read in place or it turns green if an app doesn't specifically have that hard-coded in one of which is the Amazon shopping app yeah it just has a black bar straight across the top right because that to me became one of the biggest one of the biggest sins of the iPhone 10 yeah utilizing a phone which they are using the metrics on that screen to advertise this really tall display when a good chunk of the top end of that display really isn't usable space by the consumer and cuts into content especially for apps that weren't designed around the notch or for video content as you're streaming it so it seems like android at least has a better take on the notification shade yet for trying to arrive at this but I still have to ask I mean you you we were talking offline talking about the the p20 and all the things you liked about it but is it that you like the phone despite the not or you like what they've done with the design to incorporate parts of the screen and now you're learning to love the knotch it's leaning closer towards the second but it's it's less about loving the notch and more about not trampa valence which sounds very strange but like I said it's okay this is this is very specific to the p20 Pro I haven't tried the essential phone and which I think has a similar take on it it's a very minimal thing it's just only the camera module and that's what I mean by that is the the knotch only extends as far as the status bar right but no further and where is the zenfone 5 the the iPhone 10 they will have very very pronounced like very wide and quite deep notches which for stuff that that isn't optimized or suffers optimized poorly like we were saying the YouTube app or it does take a big chunk out of the screen and what ends up happening on the p20 Pro is it pushes up to the edge of the notification bar and then it'll Rand off the corners the same as the bottom and because the p20 Pro does have a pretty pronounced chin I don't know if you can if you consider what ends up happening is when you're watching video and it doesn't quite go to the naught J words hard and ends up making the screen symmetrical are you sure you're only on your first red wine cuz I I have a lot of catching up to do if we're and it's it's been a super long day painting really takes that are you because that that wipes me out it's it's silly like yeah so when we're decorating a kitchen currently and yesterday I did the garden so see in the UK it's only just started to get some semblance of heat so it's the first cut after winter so I spent about two and a half three hours in the garden yesterday streaming cutting cleaning the dog mess up from six months of super gross yeah III my body's just like can you just sit down for five minutes you know and you know what would be great to sit down with for five minutes is like a really awesome new smartphone so hundred-percent right excellent soso so for for the I mean to kind of rope this back into the into the headline do we have anything to fear of a Samsung knotch I I kind of feel the second Samsung does it then a good huge chunk of the Android majority are just gonna go and then a couple enthusiasts will go well Samsung's doing it because they've got good reasons and then a tiny tiny minority of people will go I hate the notch and everything that not represents but I'm still gonna buy Samsung and then we're just gonna get on with our lives until we can put this stuff directly under the display and have an all screen front face that's my hypothesis I mean how long does it take there because see if this is gonna be a recurring solution for years and years that's that doesn't seem desirable at all I mean from what I from what I understand and I have a couple of friends that work in the display manufacturing display manufacturing businesses as it currently stands the camera is the only thing that's not easily hidden behind a display you can hide them behind them to display and especially in LED display but it's it's the only thing that's not easily hidden and the reason why I say that is you can't just like turn the display clear for that one little part where you want the camera when you need to use it and obviously because it's a no LED display it's not backlit you can't like the the camera from behind to help it shine through so it currently is the only thing we can't really hide but I think going back to what you were saying earlier one yeah I think we'll still see people once samsung do it go I still hate it but I'm still gonna buy a Samsung pen yeah I think we thought we saw that when they took removable batteries away when the SD cards which they later relented on but like people still continue to buy Samsung phones despite all the stuff they've done that people said they'd never stop doing and that always seems to turn out not exactly true no I it's a it's an interesting turn of affairs I think what we'll probably see is something that's a little bit more akin to essentials widow's peak because it's not even not I mean it's it's this it's literally just the circular housing for the webcam but we could build AMOLED on top of all of the bezel space surrounding that webcam where if we could get to a point where instead of having this unibrow effect I think this would probably be a little bit less objectionable but wherever your notification bar is instead of it being completely behind the screen we only have the two circular cutouts we might need four sensors and for the camera and then we could just get on with the rest of the phone being all front face fingerprint sensor somewhere on the bottom third of the display we don't have any bezels so now these things become insanely more fragile than they've ever been in the history of mobile computing but people will unless you own a key one unless you want to key one there's gonna be a huge market I feel for specialty devices that nerds are gonna rail on like oh oh the pencils just make me throw up in my mouth because it's not as immersive but the majority of consumers who want that really pretty all screen look will be well satisfied and there'll be fewer distracting elements like selfie camera unibrow censor bars obfuscating our notification shades I think that's kind of what we're gonna land on I'll be curious to see if Samsung goes with a traditional hard battier whole like notch if or if they find some way of minimizing the impact on the top of the display that would make me really excited but I mean I haven't had any problems looking at galaxy s 9s and seeing a little bit of a forehead in a little bit of a chin I think this is a perfectly reasonable solution for minimizing the impact on the display and minimizing the amount of stuff that you have to have bordering your screen the chin on the p20 Pro annoys me far more than the knotch does I'd really like to see that phone with a rear fingerprint sensor after using humates because because it it's such a narrow or short sensor that it's got such little surface area it's so it is smaller than the swipe sense on the galaxy s5 Wars and their reason for that was like it's not a surface area we have to swipe but I do this because I haven't I haven't held the the p20 pro yet but I have been spending a lot of time and I really like the phone but I do have this one major gripe my games locking up on it right now on the view 10 where we've got a really big screen tall skinny device that when I've got the phone well seated in my hand for daily use and navigating the UI using apps there's no way I can reach that that front-facing fingerprint sensor I have to balance shift an ultra tall skinny phone in my hand to unlock which is like one of the most basic one of the most important aspects of using that phone and especially as compared to the mate where the phone and the screen are on even before the phone is completely out of my pocket yeah are you finding that that the p20 you you've got that similar like hand choreography's at more of a dance to get that up and working yes so I have the the mate 10 Pro and the the p20 Pro here I agree with you a hundred percent now imagine that that terror of having to shimmy down your phone except it's a 900 euro phone yeah yeah I've noticed a weird thing with the the Pete when he broke the center of gravity is like kinda off so when like so it kind of is more top-heavy than you think it'd be mm-hm so when I just like pick it up my thumb rests about a quarter of the way at the screen so I I do actually have to intently look for the fingerprint scanner but like the time by the time I put my thumb and lifted the phone up the phones really woken up and the face unlocks already blocked me oh nice so the the face of this thing off there so I unless I purposely I don't oh I bought an app early to say that was the last time I use the fingerprint scanner okay like for authentic for authentication stuff like otherwise that the face of luck is that good I tried to fool it with a photo unlike a glossy a4 sheet mm-hm as well as a high quality selfie one out of ten times on the selfie it was tricked and I could not trick it with a photo of a track record there to do with the resolution but yeah look you can tell you can tell by the pixels I'm sure they're all the pixels little little tiny pixels yeah yeah and I would my argument in this would be that you should just do a small phone thanks Sony and that's it so we'll move on and we'll see what happens as this topic evolves when the next generation of phones comes in let's talk about the LG v 35 v40 OPEX going on here and we did have an idea about what this was all about last night in terms of the V Thor 40 because that was what Evan blast tweeted out first we didn't have any context on oh it's it's just storm but what was the picture like for the V 35 or the v40 or yeah what was this gonna be and it turned out like I'd like tweeted about it you know retweeted Evan glasses comment and then afterwards he retweeted me and then just spilled all the details about the timeline so apparently the v35 think you it's gonna be more towards the g7 yep mm-hmm g7 thank you uh launch welcome may 2nd and the v40 thank you yes yes yeah you know you're welcome yeah okay good thank you it wouldn't be complete without that it's gonna be that with another thank you how terrible the brand name thank you as we would say it makes no bad yeah it sounds like a rushed boardroom idea and LG is better than this LG is better than this what do you think about the v35 I mean we've been talking about our LG has been talking about this new regime and how I had to cancel the g7 and and restarted from new and say oh we're not gonna build more smartphones than we absolutely need and like where was that where has that gone where has that idea that mission that Drive gone and now we're just back into like the churning of the butter I mean they've definitely slowed down we've only seen 20 that could have been the same device that are in the lower end segment so only 20 of them I mean we don't need but this does feel I mean like you're you're making a joke but to me this this absolutely and I agree that was a funny joke but this absolutely to me feels like a company that's scrambling you know these feel like very reactionary moves not necessarily a corporate culture which is looking from the top down on reorganization structure efficiency and focus and that's a that's that's a scary place to be especially for as much of a fan as I've been of phones like the V 30 yeah you you've had a pretty good time with that the the V 30 V especially back to like the the v20 I remember that is very videographer and audio focused phone serving them say you know in your background is there anything that a v35 Rho V 40 could like seriously do for those core things CEO certainly III would definitely love to see LG start stepping up into larger sensor sizes if they're gonna make the argument that this is a videographer phone I mean your experiences with the p20 camera I think highlight a conversation we've been having since the Lumia 1020 more surface area is better for your photography yeah p20 is a what so one over one point seven inch yeah I mean it's it's pretty I think just slightly behind where we were with the 1020 which was a 2/3 inch sensor which was also smaller than the Nokia 808 which I never really got to use I did and it was I mean like again I've spent minutes with it it's also funnily enough near impossible to find yeah I I keep kind of scouting out it's funny like just what a wasteland eBay has become but I keep trying to scout out from time to time and I just never seem to land on finding when getting my hands on one but I would love to have one in my collection it's like the museum piece but getting back to LG I think one of their their biggest issues has been not properly communicating with consumers what they're differentiators are so I would love to see a manufacturer continue to focus on class-leading audio I mean no joke the best headphone jack audio that you can have that this is not an opinion this is not you know like a guess or just something that makes me feel good from a marketing perspective or a company that bought out an audio manufacturer and just slaps that audio label on their products with no real influence over the production of that product I like is salty about that I well yes we could save that for a whole other podcast things that one gets pissy about when it comes to audio gear but but LG has has a couple really special things here that we probably wouldn't see anything revolutionary but we would want to see them continue to iterate to improve and to refine those ideas and I think that is around but but that's that's what I think they could do really well with if we they were focused on the thing that made the V 20 in the V 30 different from the competition and maybe they that B makes them more specialist phones but you'd walk into a conversation saying oh well if you don't need the best then that's fine then this phone isn't for you and that seems to really rankle consumers if you go to someone who spent $800 on their phone and you go like oh yeah that's a good headphone jack but I wanted the best you can watch them get really bristle e like well my phone's the most popular and you're like that's fine that's great your phone wins but it's not the best has the best screen literally like totally completely objectively you have literally the best screen any smartphone and I always I have the best headphone jack yeah totally and and that to me is what's so frustrating here I would love to see LG go tick-tock don't don't mess with the design of the V 30 unless you three months unless you can give me a different back I would love to not have a V 30 in glass I would love to have a V 30 in ceramic leather metal any from bring back let the phones please Gigi for but without the boot loops but yeah without cheese fruity boot loops um but actually I just fired up my g4 I'm so grateful my g4 is still kicking I love that phone I have the the oxblood leather back for it and it's flippin awesome but but don't mess with trying to radically change the design of the phone every year instead just give us that one year on we get a new design next year on we get refinement for the tech inside but this new focus like their their notion that they're gonna win the day with AI is is such such a bad play and their recent advertisements for the V 30 like they actually had some some well produced ads during the Olympics it just didn't really tell you anything about the phone it was all of these Millennials being really aspirational and you're like that's cool but you know nowhere in any of those advertisements did you show that this is an ear professional videographer phone that this is the the absolute highest quality media consumption device you can own and that you know it beat the iPhone to a better design than what the iPhone has you know look at it because qua way is number two in the pile and Samsung Samsung is more you know kind of the just the leader and you don't want to be copying Samsung as the number two in Korea - Samsung LG wants to look for something new with some fresh ideas and where does it turn - I think we turned to quali or to honor and to their kind of youthful targeting and whatnot - very poor you like split off like a whole separate youth brand oh no no not that is just the targeting what they're doing and you know so honor is just doing more of the kind of general oh you can't have a flagship without you can't spell flagship without a I that's one of their things I saw this morning and just little things like that there are youth branded thing but that's but LG is trying to incorporate some of that into their system there and I don't I don't think it's a good decision I don't think that's a good idea especially when in like the Chinese have a different composure to marketing and like you very nuanced kind of thing going on there it's it's different it's a little more stilted it's a little more kind of objectified whereas if you're trying to personalize and you know go to the consumer and these are consumers who most of them actually are consumers that want to just watch a good video instead of making a good one you like tell them about your HDR screen or something like that like that should be more on top of the pile instead of think you oh go ahead done sorry I was just gonna say I really wish while we would have use you can't spell flagship without AI for the p20 Pro instead of Seymour with three o's like like one of one of the cool things when I have my pre-brief and it was in a museum they take in like one of the small meeting rooms over and they'd put up their own photos on the wall and then right at the end of the presentation one of the PR people's came out and said all these photos were taken on the p20 Pro and people well that's actually pretty amazing and it's just like yeah they were taken by my three-year-old you know and and then you're like I'm sorry what like that's that's it yeah well we figured out that the AI is the important bit but it's not important to the end-user right well I don't need to interact with the npu on my p20 on my may 10 but if i open up the camera it sees that i'm taking a photo of my niece it automatically switches it into portrait mode and then applies just the right amount of background blur and then takes it before I even thought about changing modes which did recently happen mm-hmm that's it the phone is a better photographer than than I am it knows that and I know that and it's nice to I mean I wrote a book on it so it makes me sad but you're not wrong so so you know I have you played with the recent update on LG phones adding AI camera and stuff where they're trying to do the same thing you point your camera at something you start getting there's what spaghetti outs coming up do you think that with that being the focus would it matter if LG put out three devices this year like if we got a job a g7 follow up a v35 refresh and then a v40 at the end of the year isn't this just a terrible branding exercise like I really feel LG should be focusing on one good launch of a big little combination of I think LG just needs to figure out what it wants it does it doesn't doesn't want to be a heavy hitter in the flagship field does it want to be a mass-market brand name like Motorola is in South America what what does it want I can't tell you what LG has really wanted since like Optimus I'll world you want what it really really wants oh no all right so I'm off thank you for joining us and this is the giant red eject button moment of our vodka I think LG actually was traveling in the right direction with the g4 I think the g4 actually got a good toehold on the consumer mind chair it introduced some really interesting ideas for the camera for customization having removable back plates and different ways to tailor fit the phone to your fashion and LG also was one of the primary most visible victims of the worst chipset that Qualcomm chips had generation that Qualcomm has ever has ever delivered with their own QA issues that combination was yeah so unfortunately I want to be excited about a new LG announcement we're seeing rumors that we'll probably be getting some word soon from what LG might be might be doing maybe over the next week but this is another company that is that is kind of traveled into the same territory that I would I would put Microsoft to when it comes to consumer devices there's a ton of potential but man do they get in their way well enough to grec potential at almost every turn yeah yeah the LG gets in the way if itself and well there's no helping in if it can do that it can only help themselves good thing the rest of the LG is actually doing decently well so let's move on from that and let's talk about the big story of the week from the US and that is with ZTE and the order from the Department of Commerce issuing a denial order to ZTE basically banning it from sourcing any parts be it you know the glass the smartphone glass sauna from Corning or Qualcomm chip sets because those are made in made from an American company or even perhaps software that was made in the US so one of the things was the tabouleh recently had like their kind of story sharing like my Jools there of course the big elephant in the room that what I'm talking about here it would be Android but that's still kind of in negotiations right now Google and their ZTE are trying to get their game together and meanwhile just today we actually had the full statement from ZTE come out I'll try and get through some of it this is just a as I see it but as et has been working diligently on Export Control and has invested tremendous resources in export compliance made some significant progress since 2016 it is unacceptable that the Bureau of Industry and security insists on unfairly imposing the most severe penalty on ZTE even before the completion of investigation of facts ignoring the continuous diligent work of ZTE and the progress we have made on expert compliance and it goes on and on and on about its reasons now the thing is is that this was a as I mentioned the headlines this was going against some of the law apparently the misc statements are the false statements that they made while they were agreeing to the settlement that would see them being fined 1.2 billion dollars they would also have to discipline or fire or take away bonuses from executives that okayed the decision to trade with those section countries just a whole bunch of them like that the list could go on what they might be thinking of right now is do going for legal action perhaps as I'm setting this up in court the thing is that they would want to get an injunction on this order get a stay on this if they can do that that would we would see business continued as normal for ZTE in the meantime you know now what if they can't that's what the big issues here I understand that ZTE is the number seven manufacturer of Android phones in the world and that they mostly have their business and telecoms that it's about 90 percent of their business is in telecom equipment but even those items have many sources in America so what happens here could be a game-changer for my safety easy I'd like to jump in Dom like the ZTE have any significant presence where you're at like do you see their products out and about in the the ultra ultra budget segments a sub hundred pounds and yeah so the the mobile market here is is is really kind of different to the US where is buying sim-free phones is you can you can literally buy a SIM free phone in the supermarket here like a standard supermarket you can buy prepaid SIM cards everywhere and it like I haven't been on a postpaid contract in almost three years just because it doesn't I don't need to I get everything I need on the prepay but one of the the larger distributors is coffin warehouse and the only time you'll really see ZTE phones are the ultra cheap like your phone just fell down the toilet and you need a phone to contact someone because it is it's really cheap maybe you can't afford to pay out the excess on your insurance so you can't quite afford to get your s8 fixed just yet but you have enough to buy this quick phone so you can whatsapp Facebook emails but that that is primarily where ZTE sounds we don't get the axon 7s and stuff of that I think Vodafone just announced they're going to bring the axon em for whatever reason they didn't our surprise and they didn't announce a date they just said hey we get in it and I'm like full game soon there's like we're getting it and I'm like you're gonna be keeping it - oh you cheeky bastard see now you just dropped the the once we're in this podcast now I can't do it no no not not the once we're so pg-13 in the United States means we can drop one f-bomb but if if you want to throw out like you know pisser you know maybe even a I don't know what what you know freakin iTunes Store Apple podcasts cuz we are flagged I think is as a as an adult for a doctor I mean well that's yeah but maybe it's a it's a per podcast that we can set that as well a little inside baseball you guys here and it's hat it's so much fun trying to explain it all right um but yeah you're I don't remember what the point was basically ZTE isn't a major player here and even on our network side Huawei is a much bigger player in the infrastructure infrastructure marquee in in the UK I'm not sure about rest of Europe by definitely no UK UK wives Huawei far supersedes literally anyone else yeah and I understand that Parliament has some questions and concerns about even hallways presence in the grid yeah they have a lot of questions for another company which is something that's gonna stay stay quite a bit longer but basically there is some fears about the way Huawei was getting carriers to use their networks missing almost like a buy one get one free type deal on their network infrastructure so basically like flooding the market with free infrastructure basically yeah but no especially when with the recent switch to LTE in subtle that and caracaras had to upgrade the technology in their their towers and there was there's kind of like is this anti-competitive is this legal you kind of underhandedly just gave stuff away but didn't really give it away and yeah I like that underhandedly under dope so I mean this is still a developing story because we're gonna have to see how this works out with law enforcement agencies and the courts but at the same time I use me I wanted to just kind of get your thoughts on this - Dom we've been talking a lot about gaming phones ZTE with the the Nubia red trying to take a stab at that I recently played around with a few Asus zenfone 's and just trying to trying to just see what they're about but you know that's a brand that has a really strong gaming presence do you feel that this is gonna be a market segment worth tapping or do you think that this is gonna be a fad that kind of dies away after a generation or two of playing with this because I mean even Nvidia tried to play an Android land for a while and eventually backed back out of it it's weird because I was at the the UK launch for the razor phone in December mm-hm and what whilst I was there this entire tuck the entire time I'm like this this is just gonna flop so hard but having spoken to the the the the people that work at the retail stores they're the carrier that sells over here three they're having a hard time keeping them in stock mmm-hmm and genuinely I was surprised because let's be real the only thing that phone really has going for it is the name and the kind of whacky design that I will give it you know having used it for a little bit screen tech is pretty nice yeah the reef the adaptive refresh of kind of cool that's cool literally everything else about the screen is I don't to say sub pod that sounds really unfair but I'll accept I have it I should have used that know that the way the screen was laminated wasn't very good the actual exam panel itself has really bad quality control issues it's not very bright it like that there are so many like meth things about like the fact that they can run at 120 Hertz at all is amazing and it is really great but that that what does the razor phone really have it's the razor name the weird design and those crazy speakers and also project Linda but I don't think you can really count I want that so hard the desktop mode on my huawei phones a lot I definitely do okay we'll see but that that that I feel is a little bit different so you're using the desktop mode on your hallway now what if you could only use the desktop mode with your hallway in a proprietary housing that then wouldn't wouldn't work with other monitors and desktops and keyboards that I'd be really shitty um so that's that's why I'm kind of skeptical of Linda I think it's the same issue that we ran into with Motorola like if I get this thing it's only gonna work like it's an expensive laptop enclosure that's only gonna work with this one phone maybe a follow-up phone and then I'm gonna have to rebuy everything when I want to go on from there I I I get really nervous about any type of system which isn't built on like accepted standards so Huawei I plug in a USB C to HDMI cable and I'm done that's it and then even just for Android being able to recognize external displays like I can make a laptop out of any phone if I have a couple cables in a bluetooth mouse and keyboard Linda yes and just some piss and vinegar you know like Linda it looks really cool but I I would be very nervous about being trapped in a proprietary one-off ecosystem and then not knowing if future investments were gonna play nice with that I think the the way you get around that would be the way HP did it remember the at the NVE early x3 I think it was the Windows Phone that had the had the continued laptop dock and it was this laptop showing you you could either do it by a white gig or you FBC there let that's that's kind of a thing but then it's like alright so I have to use this laptop with a phone plugged in or do it wirelessly and then destroy my phone's battery life but then I can't also put the phone in my pocket because why gig doesn't work through closed and well and I mean it was like one step improved over Microsoft's continuum dock for the Lumia which you know that that again like let's take a chipset that runs really high charge your phone make your phone phone run a desktop style interface and your screen can ever turn off yeah that sounds like a great idea like let's do on a phone that's literally gonna nuke itself after about 45 minutes of using let's do that on a phone we're one of the big selling features was we put a vapor chamber to help cool it now I don't even know did that I don't think the the smaller one had that they said the 808 they used was good enough oh no it's not [Laughter] speaking of chipsets ah oh boy what's up what's with the Galaxy S 9 cuz I've been here about the problems at the x-centers and the stats are getting 45 like the Xmas is supposedly worse by like a good factor yeah so as as a massive CPU and process technology nerd this was incredibly surprising yeah well it was late because there was no oh no yeah but but there wasn't a like there was no space efficiency going from the what was that the 88 90 like last generations or whatever over to the 98 10 and these stupid numbers that keep they have little meaning but like there was like it was bigger even though it was on the same fabrication 10 animators like what's the deal so basically Samsung is what's known as an ARM architecture licensee but they also have a design license so there is whereas MediaTek can just take the a53 and stuff like that Qualcomm Samsung NVIDIA Apple they have a full architecture licenses so they can just create one from the ground up so the N degree cry over the a series and the Exodus yes yes Samsung phones are called Mongoose they're in the third generation m3 core and Samsung's one goal for the m3 was to go after Samsung so they built a very wide core what that means is it can basically it can hear and understand and process a fair few more requests concurrently the problem with going for a very wide core is it takes up a lot of die space which dies are not very large in let the silicon wafers or cells you can only roll up to six and those things right something like that you're not actually far off a silicon wafer itself if you can get a single monolithic die bigger than like 600 square millimeters so you won't actually just a few yep and but know that the actual die space itself so the the m3 core is very wide and to kind of make it as fast as possible Samsung kind of said effort to the power budget and the the way they got around that by still making it be able to be put into a phone without melting itself they basically the the schedule of the weight gets told it's chores is conservative yeah it's really conservative so if you if you if you're a really big nerd like me I don't over to an antic they they are yeah so Andre over there is doing a fantastic job of literally from screw at writing his own custom kernels and devfs schedulers to fix the galaxy s 9x not 99-98 all just gonna pour it out to a kernel and then everyone had command have at it yeah that's great seriously thank you but so this is this is annoying to me as someone who was so hyped to finally see Samsung do a fully custom call or or or as fully custom as they've or they've ever been and especially so this is built on the a 75 which is a brand new set of ARM architecture basically it rewrites the way you connect the cause so before you could only have multiples so you can have two cores or four calls a cause you could have four little and too big for and for whatever the new one is called dynamic this like thank you it's a dy yeah dy n a.m. and then in capitals IQ yep so the the dynamic architecture allows you to have seven low-power cause and then just one super high power I need to get this job done and then it can just go back put it but it's it's it's on-off right it's just one or seven right and it completely depends on the interconnect used and also the company okay alright so lots of components going into that and it's just an it's always been the the guiding hypothesis that the Exynos versions of Samsung phones were better you know that especially leading through the only time we ever got a flavor of it I just pulled out my galaxy s6 I found it in a box was you know when Qualcomm completely pooped the bed with the the ten and we we here in the United States got an X and O's powered Samsung and it was a much better generation like I think that that is a huge contributing factor to the overall goodwill on that phone redesign not only did we get Samsung away from using really weird feeling plastics on the back of their phone we also got the best-performing phone of that generation so those two things going together totally wrecked HTC and LG like I really don't believe those companies ever recovered from that year but it's really interesting to see in one processor generation that narrative almost completely changing and now it would seem to me that one of the major competitors to Qualcomm in terms of getting powerful chip sets out with bleeding edge feature sets would be Kirin would be wall ways and they should have an i silicon do you think that this is do you think that this is gonna be a one-off misstep from Samsung and that the follow ups are gonna be better refined or do you think that this is fabrication tech which might take a couple generations for Samsung to unravel personally again knowing what I know which it is this is one of those weird things where you think you know a lot and then you read into something and you realize a little you know everyday it's like wow there's so much I don't know about this Wow the ten nanometer process that Samsung are using for the 9810 is is the second generation I think it's LPP said low-power plus the original was lpe low-power early so it's it could still be a few issues with getting the yields and leakage on the transistors I think this is more just a an issue with the design team kind of I think there's a bit of an Icarus moment for them flew too close or some and got bad I mean we always want to celebrate some ambition but again we're also the enthusiasts sector those of us who are fans of this stuff for our always gonna be really quick to savage any company that mistakes it's about the beds that payoff to them not the beds that down so yeah it's that they always play that risk but I mean facts are facts so we move on from that and let's say well I want to try and see if we can combine the Apple stories here now the it's not we're not calling this the budget iPhone because this is still gonna be iPhone 10 like it's gonna have that form factor it's gonna have face idea what not it's just gonna have an LCD screen maybe less premium materials but like we've been talking about this for a quite a while now at the eight hundred seven hundred eight hundred dollar price point and this with this latest Intel from KGI we always talk about maangchi quo being one of the best and one of the most accurate scanned of supply chain analysts but 550 that that's a left field kind of number there right and I'm not run for saying that you know I mean $649 was the longtime benchmark right well don t do you think that we're gonna see the the sort of the follow up so this is again this is what gets me crazy about fans is that we're gonna sit here in debate names is it really an iPhone 10 - is it an iPhone 11 is it an iPhone 9 what iPhone is it and it's like it's the next iPhone we're just it's the next iPhone it's gonna be one of three with like you know the more premium stuff they're like two premium one premium because it's confusing okay right but I mean like if we're talking about a five hundred and fifty dollar iPhone do we think this might be the iPhone se I don't think so the iPhone se was was it 300 350 though I know I think it was more close to the 400 Bay in any case I mean we've been talking about that there's been an on-and-off thing about the I thought I might be the higher story cuz it launched with 16 we're talkin I mean the iPhone se 2 has been talked about for WDC again it DC again it could be happening it could be not but I mean this this is just another iPhone mainline I don't know yeah I think this replaces the the eight so the smaller mainstream iPhone I think one of the reasons why is the the eight hasn't sold as well as Apple was hoping from what I've heard Oh basically yeah I think I think they divided their market in a way that made their numbers overall look good if you combine iPhone eight eight plus and iPhone 10 sales again Apple's still a machine to print money but I don't think they got the clear winner I think Apple executives were really hoping one phone would stand out and all of them I think have sold fairly well just sort of similarly from what I was told they were really sorry sorry Jules from what I was hoping the eight like the standard eight would have had enough change you said the newer camera the better screen the waterproofing the wireless charging they were hoping that would have been enough of a change from the seven but know it is yeah even though it still looked different they had the gold colour the hell all of that it was still the I still had the the reputation of the smallest newest iPhone and no one really wants the smallest no like people I don't the plus all the expensive not true that's me I any I mean like I I'm never far from my iphone se one v30 and then I had to send the perfect 800 I found already say anything I can't say anything I've got a p20 pro-am 810 and keep one emotion but that's their life really the average consumer so I mean like I'm walking around with the combo right now I'm kinda moving back and forth between the view 10 and the V 30 but when I want to you know catch up on what's going on Apple that's why I also turned to the SE I still think it's the best premium small form-factor experience the next closest competitor which is still a ways off would be an Xperia z1 compact the x/z yes the too compact is really nice it's bigger than I'd like it to be and like it's it's 12 13 millimeters oh not even thickness wise the screen just got a bit of a I think it's like 5.5 a bit of experience by one screen which I kind of gather that fudge is the numbers a little bit but yeah they I would have preferred them to put a closer to five ish inch 720p screen and the exit to so I did look it up and you guys were right the the iPhone se launched at 399 and I was thinking of the $4.99 price point for the 64 gigabyte version which what is option so if if we're looking at that we're still assuming there are gonna be three devices does that mean I mean are we really expecting to see a nice iPhone that's gonna have an a hundred dollar price cut over where we normally see a smaller iPhone launch well I'm not sure about the price cut I mean they could do what like the iPhone 8 the iPhone sevens it's typically a 649 749 somewhere in that ballpark you know exactly let's talk about it like you know the the Omega print is yeah but the premium let's look like there's the premium a there's the premium B and then there's like the mid-range or thinning for the iPhone se and this would be a premium B as opposed to a premium a that we're talking about here and like well well let's trace it back to the this year now because you know the iPhone 8 8 plus and the 10 worry like though it drove revenues up integer and then drew all the freaking metrics that analysts want to see like average sales price and revenues and and rally and even with the diversified strategy Apple still met its targets its though met its revenue goals and what and it showed that a lot of people were really interested or at least a fair amount of people were interested in the iPhone 10 or at least the more capacitive variance of the standard iPhone 8 now if this carries out to be you know if this keeps going a lot of forecasters are saying that the iPhone the LCD version the premium B version is gonna be the main driver sales for that coming fall whereas the premium ones are going to take a backseat and the supply it sounds like the supply chains already going for that now if does Apple have a good idea is this is this a good idea at this point because if they do go on with their current strategy and decide any you know it turns out that people are starting to warm up to the iPhone 10 and start to warm up that OLED screen and all the premium features and maybe just maybe are able to live with $1,000 paid over two years like the is this is this the best play for them I guess I'm trying to UM go ahead and take it he's just trying to think man I'm I'm trying to how do i phrase this without seeming like a real bad Apple hater like what what would the selling point be it can't just be here's a new iPhone there's four of them pick one like there's gotta be like the iPhone 10 sting was look at this cool display we've got an emoji like it's made of stainless steel it's like a really nice premium phone what was I can't even remember what the selling point with the se was was it like for all those people wasn't I feel they they nailed the commentary on that they were looking the year before the Essie launched they detailed 30 to 35 million unit sales on iphone 5s --is yeah so it was a market that was still worth supplying some new product and not you really rocking the boat on what to do and especially after their their tragic failure with the iPhone 5c like that was a huge misstep no one wanted that phone and no one wants to feel like they're getting the cheap phone so making an iPhone out of plastic and gaudy colors made people feel like they were getting a lesser product and still I saw I thought a ton of them but it didn't play well with any iPhone 5 accessories yes so it became a product unto itself in a spectacularly fail kind of way the iPhone se ii you got the SE and you could use iPhone 5s cases and mounts and cradles and screen protectors everything just worked that that was a that was a significant improvement on that mentality so can they make that nostalgia play again two years later well but the thing is I don't think it was nostalgia I think it was we have an issue with developing markets we have an issue with developing LTE areas we are way expensive when you start doing you know racking up import costs on these products and we need some solution that can that can play in that space it's never gonna be a flagship or a crown jewel revenue generator for them but you've got all these leftover iPhone 6 6s pieces that you can cram in there for cheap you can knock out the same frame because you know they've been making the iPhone this is the same frame since the iPhone 5 and you know you can still make a profit on it it's a Tim Cook device you know it's not an inspired play it's not an it's not even a call to nostalgia because it never ceased being sold the iPhone 5 to the iPhone 5s was continuously sold all the way up until the launch of the se so this is where I'm kind of curious if we launch we have a three device strategy for Apple 2018 we've got an AMOLED which is going to be a premium phone I think is still gonna land at a $9.99 price tag if not higher does that mean that maybe what we'll look at is psychologically positioning an iPhone se2 as the smaller phone and then a larger cheap phone at a 650 dollar price tag using LCDs and so now we've got the iPhone we're not messing around with iPhone this and iPhone plus an iPhone 7s and iPhone eights and all these other iPhones here's here's the nice phone and then for those of you in developing markets or who want a mid-range or something with a little bit lesser price tag but still want more current technology here's the iPhone 9 which would have been an iPhone se and an iPhone plus of some kind and then that also drives is the psychological screw point where you can say like oh well we've got a lesser phone if you want to buy it but you know this is the really nice iPhone that's friends that you can spend a lot of money on a phone that to me I think makes a really smart psychological play $550 is mid-range territory for Apple that that is a mid-range err growl well I mean for a lot of companies to it be upper end for Android but you're still in the premium mid-range territory with phones like the galaxy s s9 plus and the galaxy but mid-range flex it's it's the galaxy a series for Samsung and and what a lot of consumers look at and up-to-date what a twelve chipset iphone with a two by one aspect ratio display even if it's an LCD as being a much nicer product than a Samsung a series or even last year's chip which is what they updated to on the new iPad nine point seven I mean ten is a considerable improvement from there I want to run down a few hashtag P and weekly comment since we have a daughter let's do it we get to so David Bautista DaSilva I highly doubt Samsung will do not CH consumers would turn on them hard like they did with the s6 and Apple will call the man for making fun of notches on that's nine presentation and then doing one the year after it would be a PR nightmare going on to or an auto Laporte or excuse me goran petrovic first of all LG in terms of the the V Series is stuck between brilliance and dilettantism how we figure out completes a complete great FIFO no more super line in audio with a cheap speaker please and from Ramallah port over here in terms of many European ISPs use ZTE modems in the Netherlands phones aren't really a thing for ZTE but trade laws are there to be followed like it or not if you want to be in the game you either play by the rules or make sure not to get caught although I'm never happy to see you less competition even though I just like some of ZTE policies so it's just a whole basket of a comments there and yeah very valid points indeed definitely good chat guys I know we've been seeing some of those comments coming in so apologies we've just been chatting with Don because Dom's pretty cool guy so yeah you know I wish I could be we don't need to lie for me guy well let's move on to a Tim Cook speaking of a phone made for Tim Cook apparently doesn't you just want a an iPhone that runs iOS no this Mac apps bullcrap going on here let's get to the whole meat of the quote here he again talked with the Sydney Morning Herald about the rumored making apps work with both iOS Mac OS as a platform paradigm merge he said we don't believe in sort of watering down one for the other both the Mac and the iPad are incredible one of the reasons that both of them are incredible is because we pushed them to do what they do well and if you begin to merge the two you begin to make trade-offs and compromises so maybe the company would be more efficient at the end of the day but that's not what it's about you know it's about giving people things that they can then use to help them change the world or express their passion or a spread express their creativity so this merger thing that some folks are fixated on I don't think that's what users want well let's talk about convertibles let's talk about tablet like the this you know can table --tz-- let's talk about the value proposition of the iPad as I mentioned in the my write-up of the article because when you add on an Apple pencil which is compatible with the latest you know budget iPad at 3:29 or however much you want to pay for it depending on wireless and storage like the minimum set up for that and a keyboard is less than $600 which is a pretty good proposition especially when you already have a very healthy iPad app ecosystem a lot of productivity stuff but not a heavy weight stuff though like Final Cut Pro no like Adobe Cloud Creative Cloud apps so I mean when you're one you want to combine the like the horsepower apps with the form factor what do you do apparently if you're Apple you do nothing and you just make sure that people are siloed and you're able to you know extract most the most out of each vertical that you are working on well Dom you love that's my there pretty much your your favorite so man my wallet is so thick full of Apple cash right now exactly know what I'm what I think would be kind of interesting where are you on the spectrum of because you you really like desktop mode on your wall way um I've been a major proponent over the last year maybe even two years of trying to get people to do more stuff with their phones you're gonna spend six seven eight nine hundred thousand dollars on a phone what are you doing with it what can you do with it and you know it's not acceptable to say like oh well Facebook opens like a fraction of a millisecond faster because I spent $800 on this phone as opposed to buying something else like maybe a premium mid-range err do you think apples falling behind on this kind of multi-user multi flexibility or more services driven idea by trying to keep these as two separate product lines I think their hesitation makes sense but them dragging this hills this long is kind of maybe start becoming detrimental Liza I understand their hesitation after seeing what Microsoft did with Windows 8 they went all-in for a hybrid ecosystem it backfired really badly and I get that but Windows 10 like and with the improvement in the surface pro like we solve PC sales go up again yeah and after five years of them tanking hard yeah like hard and then app we use it as an excuse to not put a touchscreen on the MacBook there's that well fine we'll we'll put a touch bar in middle way and then it's actually when you think about it how many developers have actually specialized their programs or the touch bar we saw a couple high-profile ones at launch so we saw like Final Cut what's the the music I think it's logic we saw some good like Adobe traction on that I think yeah but then like every day users like what did what did chrome do better with the touch bar like what what did the Apple Mail app do better like oh you can open up the emoji picker when you're in iMessage on your MacBook now well and especially because we're watching every other ecosystem try and deliver I think a services first idea Microsoft running Windows 10 on arm Google looking at where they can potentially and we're gonna be talking about the pixel book but also you know these little these little tidbits of information between Chrome OS and Android OS and a project fuchsia which might blur the lines between the two and then you know just varying different ideas on unlike Linux development to some really interesting ideas coming out of there um with the power that goes into an A Series chipset I feel like apples missing out on this tremendous opportunity to further cannibalize sales of products that are only doing middling to well to really bolster the sales of products that are already their bread and butter I'm a husband really curious like I have been really confused I should say why they've taken such this hard line divide between their Macs and iOS when max are woke performing woefully in the overall PC market well it's it's one of those things that I was looking the other day what Apple's still sell but for some reason the MacBook Air is still sold and then we've got the 12-inch MacBook and like further for the most people that the MacBook Air is the laptop they bikes it's the cheapest whereas I think what most people should end up getting is the 12-inch MacBook and it's the better better overall experience you get the nicer screen the nicer Hardware quote unquote yes just back there yeah I forgot this is not always a video medium for everyone but I think what Apple really dropped the ball with is they were one of the first with the the App Store the Mac App Store and it kind of stagnated really early on and now it's this wasteland of things and if you think about it if they had properly incentivized and gotten everything done they would be able to put a system in place so say they were planning to refresh the 12-inch MacBook with an a 12 and it a custom a 12 call and they can say fine you have an application in the Mac App Store you cannot submit an update or a new app until you have recompiled and given support farm and then then then you have every developer in your store buy the bleep I don't want to and you have them by the van's difference yeah yeah and by the short and curlies and you can you can basically just you say oh do you want to play the game you can you can play with we're not gonna charge you to update we're not gonna do anything that debt but you want to submit an update you want to reach as many users as possible do this one thing for us you you recompile your app once so it has the the right libraries and everything and then that's it because we're having a similar issue now with all the old 32-bit apps in the iOS App Store which are going to which are going to be going away soon so it it feels like if they hadn't dropped the ball on on that the switchover would be a lot easier but I also think it's something Microsoft is gonna have an issue with but they've they've approached it a better way so you're speaking about Windows 10 on arm only running on the Windows Store apps but they've also written in a win32 emulator which support which performs surprisingly well for actually it's not great but again for what it's running on which is essentially a a slightly overclocked phone chip it want it runs emulated code really well so I I don't I I want Apple that I want Tim Cook to to get it right because they do do things really well there that the push to high res displays to more color accurate displays to these amazing trackpads that we saw Microsoft step up with with the windows precision drivers two cameras which step which made Google step up on the phones they do have this innate ability to push other companies further I don't think they have any reason to do that on the iPad sides and like if the Mac's will keep selling as they are what what else are gonna people buy besides an iPad which is now a lot cheaper at 3:29 are you gonna you know what you're gonna you gonna buy 7-inch Windows tablet for $1.99 great experience with that exact I have a few like I got my yoga book which I use a lot I have a galaxy book but those are 600 and 1200 pound devices Megan right my and sharing some lenovo love no I I just I'm I'm kind of nonplussed I really felt like we were all marching towards this direction and the overwhelming financial success for Apple in the iOS space would have prompted a move more aggressively than this and this is awesome to me I think one of the major detriments of having Tim Cook at the head of Apple is that he's not a bold Big Idea design guy he's a you know make all of the he's an amazing operations guy you want him to walk into China and get preferred manufacturing deals from companies and to put out product lines that are gonna be insanely profitable he's your dude but I think this becomes a massive blind spot in the organization at the top of the company and and again why we've seen over the last I don't say the the last two years for Apple making as much money as they do investors still get really squirrelly about their Apple portfolio the Apple stock in their port portfolio because it's so heavily dependent on a very narrow band of products and we don't see Apple thrown a lot of cash at skunk works at the future really driving what the next phase of consumer electronics is gonna be they've been highly reactionary since the iPad Mini they've been playing catch-up on products and they when they do enter the market they do well Apple home pod notwithstanding but that that also I like home I think is actually a perfect example Apple doesn't get to just walk into every market and declare themselves victorious they take they're starting to take a few losses on this really conservative strategy of delivering after the market has already been established by other players so this to me like would seem like a no-brainer they've already been trying to streamline OSX you know the whatever trying to make max feel more like iPads so why not just push over into running iOS applications it more directly on OS X gear and then starting to blur that line on the iPad side to just seems like that would be a really easy way to avoid the trappings that Microsoft fell into with Windows 8 I think of it I'm sorry quick comment from the YouTube chat here from christian dior devera any kind of swift conversion the terrible tedious process of compiling your code to support any new features is a pain Apple should really fix some of the issues on the developer side go ahead I I think one of the reasons they don't want to pull iOS apps to Mac OS or whatever it's called these days is they if if you allow iOS apps to be downloaded run everything on Mac OS devices you have you open the possibility of them being optimized for those devices so imagine like having a game in the iOS App Store that is they're supposed to be run on a MacBook Pro that is something you open yourself up to yeah but but then we've also been hearing you know I'm you know you're not wrong but I'm also a little less concerned about that eventualities like this morning I pulled up my humble bundle account and fired up a steam code that I had forgotten to ever apply for fieldrunners - and it's a game that runs that I bet I got for Android but there was a steam code attached to it there was a separate sort of development port offered for PC fired that up and like I was playing one of my old school favorite tower defense games in a couple minutes I'm not too concerned about there being a back and forth travel between you know little phone apps and then larger professional or more serious desktop grade applications and I think our portable devices have gotten powerful enough to again MU optimizing with Swift involved totally I'm grossly oversimplifying the developer side of the equation here but when it comes to what the consumer interacts with and what they hope to get out of that equation or out of that relationship it doesn't seem to me that it's an insurmountable challenge to have more carry over services that travel in both directions from mobile more traditional arm powered mobile devices to x86 powered hardware and especially since we know Apple is going to be working on their own chipsets they're gonna try and walk away from the Intel ecosystem that's the perfect opportunity to say here's a unified base here's a unified platform I can only think I can only think of one thing Apple would need Intel for these once they was they ever switch because Apple has custom cause they they have a GPU design portion they have SSDs they have SSD controllers they have the only thing I can really think they'd need Intel for would be a modem rode on a train in Intel still have the best Wi-Fi stuff but even further on in LTE modems I am trying to capitalize a Qualcomm especially if that legal dispute they have with the ante could put anti-competitive loyalties blow up yeah and your face kind of thing it's a similar thing to be on a much smaller extent for Apple but it's it's like Samsung Samsung makes screens they make processes they physically design and make the processes they also make RAM they also make SSDs they also have a metal fabrication that they have their own element called metal 17 well like yeah like Samsung like they have a radio business one of the few things Samsung don't do is GPU and like yeah don't they rely on the stalker arm thing yes yeah the MAL equals bommali yeah which would in Chinese means horsepower by the way does it no yeah I think it's funny what if you say the Mallee fast enough it sounds like you're saying Tamale and I haven't had lunch yet so I mean it's 20 to 10:00 in the evening of the yeah I think we should probably try in the speed up the rest of this because man I didn't expect that we'd be talking for this long about yeah how dare you your conversations on pod dare you have listening content man let's quickly go a speed round on the blackberry 9900 bold 9900 would you want to see that maybe with Android I mean we're talking about more of a squished key one screen and more cubes already too long Dom 200 block there we go yes or no wait I want one I think it'll be I was gonna say especially with TCL's expertise on idols and stuff I would love to see a 200-dollar blackberry I'm from from what I've heard four people inside blackberry like inside the TCO portion of blackberry they're they're really trying not to hit the nostalgia note for like they have the key the key series is what they call it internally the key series um which is probably an indication to something later on who knows but if you as if you take the key one aside no other blackberries look or feel like old traditional blackberries no no the moat the motion is a complete tank it is impeccably crafted with absolute piss-poor design like station of a bad design is that what you're saying yeah it's like it could have been so good didn't make him how the like the put the the Indonesian house or something no that was no that was still teasing well yeah so it is weird because like I recently thought TCL were the only licensee of the BlackBerry no but in like Jakarta and stuff like that it is a separate company internally in that country that is basically buying the tooling from another company and recreating a key one inside that they do have a few regional houses and even John Chen mentioned maybe actually talked to a another house and tell him to build this so I mean it to be an Android phone I like totally get that but one of the things I saw MWC was selfish healthy being there getting it running on lower and lower and hardware but also they're really pushing the security aspect yeah and say you could do a 9900 or a blackberry classic type thing or if you wanna get rid of the school belt and just do like a q10 type thing yeah the slave because with the the where's the button there was the central button on the 900 II had the older one that got yeah and God like Pablo your finger junk yeah but I mean as long as that doesn't happen and you like you because it's it's a swipe it's a you have to pull down to get all to the men get to ya of anywhere this is my wife's old curve in the trackball on this it's kind of a puke amber yeah my my pearl a c100 I think it is the original pearl of upstairs the the chrome fascia ring is completely gone I think the only thing holding the trackball in is just like years of rot but likely be poor doesn't work I ended up charging it from one of those docks because they had the contact pins on the back and like III used an abused BlackBerry's which is why I actually do kind of want this 9900 refresh going but I think if he was really didn't want to like go Android route I could definitely see a 9900 with selfish years of grub either way my latest album on Bandcamp please abort me you can go I was one did you have your opinion on this oh yeah I'm I'm I was I was done I'd like okay if we can now seven at around that $200 price point and make it as nice as it is then I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a focused lean work communicator device that could sell really well from BlackBerry's team like an actual decent work burner phone that like an employee like if corporations weren't looking at key one with interest and I think they missed out on a pretty significant opportunity to have a focused there's there's not much that would prevent blackberry from doing that at $2 yeah so good hopes there let's talk about not phones for a few minutes well I'll just run down the stories here on air apparently has a new laptop just like Huawei is doing with its newfound laptop initiative it's doing the magic book latest Intel Core 8th generation ie chips going over there and all the little fancy stuffs thanking have gone huh $100 on her laptop thumbs-up thumbs-down god I need to I need to break out my inner white girl but I want this left [Laughter] like I know I shouldn't want it because it's nothing about it is super interesting that's kind of why I want it yeah you probably don't have discrete graphics I mean yeah but but it's like so does the the Xiaomi laptop on that price yeah that's right but I mean it's like I'm probably I'm probably gonna have an easier time important the Xiaomi one than this on a book which is probably not gonna be seen outside of China well I mean in owner has makes more of a case for its presence elsewhere like in as you know Asia Europe and all the rest and they want to be in the US but I'm not sure if this is like what cuz this is new for them and you know who knows what the product strategy is no I actually that I think I agree with Dom I think because it's new it's probably gonna be a very limited release yeah okay sadface for that any quick opinion on that - oh me i again it's it's i would like to see just a little bit more brand cohesion on where honor does business what product lines people have access to the view 10 is a nice step in the right direction i don't know that they've fully created like for example you talk about honor and people will still talk about huawei it's not the same kind of separation for Westerners at least it's not the same kind of separation that we see from like Oppo and other products that may or may not be influenced or built alongside Oppo products it it's gonna be a hard conversation separating out why you want an honor badge on something as opposed to a huawei badge where there's a lot of overlap between the two brands but ultimately what I would like to see is this company continuing to iterate and delivering more competition for some of these products sectors getting to spend some time with the the mate book that that's a really nice laptop I really liked the what little time I got to spend with it so it would it would be nice to see something that can get us really close to a mate book and again offer some kind of price performance benefit to consumers who maybe don't need all the bells and whistles that's that's a very competitive space and I think it's always good to approach that with some healthy optimism go ahead sorry it's the last little thing as much as I hate the noir way like clamshell logo I definitely prefer it to the honor logo looks like it looks like that bubble font you used to see in like comic sense it's not Comic Sans open source word clones I think I think it should be pirates they could have a tie-in with avatar it would be amazing now they hope that no way that was that's one plaster I was about to say Avengers well they could have like Prince Zuko on the back and he needs to get his honor back so not that avatar the real avatar not not the last airbender will will forget that they ever exist oh I'll bend your air ok pixel book before this podcast rounds in its own juices pixel book being used by Google as a good testbed it's I mean they were talking about USB drives full fuchsia and whatnot and now they're talking about making the pixel book running in Windows 10 of course it has Intel processors and all the whatnot for for that but right now we're only talking about the pixel book this is specific to the pace book well in in terms of the alts OS is what it's being called OS UI where you could just shoot or like turn it on and choose your thing operating system from the BIOS so um good bad should Google keep in this vein like is this is this something good for the system Dom town is something good the pixel book has sold surprisingly well from from retailers mine yeah but for what when you think about it what is it it's a Chromebook yeah that that's it it's an expensive Chromebook and it like it's not something that you think you'd read apps yeah but this is selling better than any pixel before primitive pixel before it's it'll be interesting to see certain things like Windows running like you could always do it before when you put it into developer mode unlocked a bootloader you can flash up into and stuff but it would be interesting to see like windows type stuff running not through VMware or something I just don't see where this is gonna be a killer app I think we've long passed any consumer benefit for dual booting devices I think an enthusiast thing it's fun and I think it's literally for internal development and and like anyone who is gonna play with this like another developer might want to be able to switch back and forth between operating system user systems and UIs and stuff like that but if Google is trying to make a good-faith play that the pixel brand is consumer facing then I don't I don't see where this is this is kind of a non-story to a degree it's not gonna change a lot of consumer behavior it's not going to be something that convinces people to pick up inexpensive Chromebook they're gonna pick up an expensive Chromebook because it's priced competitively against a MacBook which means it's good now and that's why they'll buy it if when it was cheap it was cheap and that's bad but now that it's it's a MacBook it's a Google MacBook now it's good and then it's good and it's got the experience to match in very limited minutes worth of hands on I'm not faulting that it's whether or not we're valuing a system that used to make its case for like education markets on $300 acer's now as geeks and as enthusiasts we're asking what do you bring to the table at four times the price of an Acer that really benefits the Chrome OS ecosystem the thing that I would be really interested to see though is if the pixel book becomes the tip of the spear on something like a next-gen operating system where we really merge the the the app ecosystem benefits of Android with the proper desktop browser grade experience of Chrome OS on hardware that can really competently run anything that you might want to throw at it with that excite developers on taking this more seriously and making fuschia whatever next-gen Google operating system a true Microsoft Windows competitor because Microsoft's having to work at it from the opposite perspective they're trying to get back into mobility any way they can and my Windows 10 on arm is interesting we might we've been hearing rumors about Windows going free for a long time of it becoming a free operating system that then Microsoft makes their money through other types of services and licensing so those types of things like we're watching Microsoft and Google meet in the middle while Apple is like you know sucking a lollipop in a sandbox like in the next neighborhood over not really paying attention to what's going on that to me would be the biggest argument in favor of some kind of alt o s would be your your pixel book investment now comes with the the next-generation platform for what we'll all be running in five years that would be I think an exciting turn of an exciting development but again an exciting development for enthusiasts people who want to use the products they want to use them they don't want to experiment with them you also get the best keyboard I've ever used my laptop oh it's really nice it's such a nice I do have to do with the coating on it like it's it's not like a soft touch rubber it's a weird coating on the keys but they are so nice but I will say I mean like it's really really nice I can't go with you with the best cuz I miss the older Keir keyboards we used to get on ThinkPads I just got that chunky it's like really big key cap feel again I'm back on a mechanical keyboard semi perfectly not typed anything this entire time I mean I'm sure likes people has driving people nuts whenever I do like reply to a tweet or something in the middle of the podcast but it's so nice and I would love to have that kind of feel even though I know it would cost me a couple millimeters of thickness on my on my laptop the Apple way of the butterfly switch yeah okay lastly because this is the one that that's upsetting me the most I have been so crazy excited for Intel vaunt this is a pair of glasses that look like just really chunky you know regular sunglass or you know reading glasses frames had these tiny little laser projection systems built into the frame that could project an image onto the back of your eyeball this was gonna be for me like that way that we get away from the Google glass Borg implementation of face computing and bring a are the real no camera no no no that stuff and it was very not intrusive no pan bear completely pulled the plug and again it's just resetting where I've been incredibly frustrated with the state of wearable technology bio-organic implementation of user interfaces smartwatches are not getting the job done we needed to take that next evolutionary step Dom well anyone give us some type of eye level heads-up display that doesn't make you look like total dork no I'm sorry night I sold um I believe in the cyborg future like get rid of this useless flesh vessel like so many of my body parts are broken I've got bad eyes I wear glasses like I literally have muscles missing in my arm like so much of like me is broken let me augmented that way I like thanks screw it I'm gonna be able to get like contact lens that have the smart stuff in it like maybe it doesn't even need to be a full heads-up display but one of the things I remember seeing that interested me so much just because I have a family diabetes if my family was verily the health section of alphabet had something in development which was contact lenses for diabetics that had a little LED in the corner and it measured your blood glucose levels through your tears and and the corner of the contact lens would light up in your periphery if you went too high or too low and stuff like that so maybe maybe you could do a thing like that like so first person shooter your blood sugar starts too much and you'll start to see a red rim like in a consumer version of that you could have like like the rim going around and you could have it color coded for different applications so maybe like maybe fitting with those smart rings that the don't had displays they just have different color LEDs different patterns this is why I wanted mine because then you could also just project text directly into my eyeball without having like Locutus they're like stuff on my face it would just be like a normal pair of sunglasses and I wanted that so bad what's not even know it's like why are we still on the monitoring phase of like all this indicate of tech like you know like can't we find a way with you know just implement something that I can just automatically automates and not being redundant they're automatically regulates that kind of thing like you know just a maybe an implant or like a little something I don't know no apparently no apparently the answer from Intel is we're killing the project and you you don't get any any this is the first thing that they killed and everyone hated him for it well I mean Google read [Laughter] so much sadder and crankier than Google Reader and Google Reader was was was a pretty tough blow I think I guess it's just how quickly they killed this yeah wasn't it like what four months three months there was only a few marks and they got like a pretty respectable amount of buzz like people seemed tentatively very positive on this any company that walks into the space I'm sure is playing the we don't want to be the next Google glass game we don't want to be the you know Scoble in his shower with our product problem that is I searing that is and you know Google put this into the hands of bored geeks with more money than sense and those are the worst evangelists to try and launch a new product so I know anyone who's looking at doing something in the space is desperately trying to avoid that but that's also what I think was so sad what's so sad about this is Intel had a conversation going that was far more positive for how conservative people are with this type of face computing it got us over so many of these hurdles and I know it was super early and it probably wasn't as high-techy cool as we were all hoping it would be but it was a huge step in the right direction and now it's gone and that sucks so bad because it's gonna also reinforce why another manufacturer shouldn't even try you know like they're all gonna slow play it when no one's really working on it in any kind of earnest and at the same time it's like it's not like my Android wear watch experience has gotten any better well I could tell that this was coming with the whole that way that they treated the basis peak but yeah it's it's sad I think what makes me more upset is when I when I heard about this news I instantly like you I went and thought back about Google glass and I went on YouTube and I found the original advert for Google glass from the they showed that eioped remember when you guy wet the guy went to the book shop found a way to learn ukulele went to a coffee shop went to the rooftop and liked video called his girlfriend and that played a song ukulele like that's still getting anxiety or something yes I'll send it's either you or Jules nigga put it in the show notes or something like that but it it like it still makes me excited that we could see something like that because that still seems so cool like see like if you did have a minute I said I wear glasses already if I could have an invisible like out like monochrome LED display like laminate between these glasses and then like I could oh you're getting a someone's calling you you get like a phone icon that like vibrates and it says like Jessica I don't know whoever's calling in or like if you're doing that 10 by 10 navigation it's just got like the arrow feet turn left it doesn't need to be full-color like really rich brick track yeah yeah but this is even more excited about vine is that you didn't even need the lamination process of having a display it was it was like if they were just gonna beam this information into your eyeball which is such a novel solution to the problems that these companies have faced in trying to build some type of prism or you know really making a glass or a built-in solution that that needed to be battery-powered you know and again those those like little laser projectors taking up less energy so you'd probably be able to get away with smaller batteries on these products and it's just so frustrating that that that didn't seem to garner more buzz you're showing me something here and it looks super cool this is a product called the evident glyph now oh this does exactly what you're saying it doesn't have displays it has two micro projectors that beam directly onto your eyes and it's a pair of headphones so I'll put them on a set this off very huge pair yeah that's what he said really cool Geordi LaForge that's $1,000 gone plus like eight 50s I know that what I got these um but it's basically just an HDMI display yeah so anything that's HDMI you can plug into it so I have it plugged into one of my raspberry PI's which is attached to mine s so if I just want to watch your film I could just what's that and it's way more immersive and unlike VR it doesn't take up your entire field of view you can still see above and below but it's not distracting at all because you're not looking at a screen it's being projected onto your eyes and even for someone who wears glasses the lenses are adjustable you can change the the interpupillary distance and all those weird things to make it look any its own only 720p but dislike with actual projectors and pointing to attribution and resolution doesn't actually matter as much as it does on TVs you know in a weird way one of the things I I've done a lot of recently is starting to review projectors whether it be home theater projectors or mobile ones and I've noticed that the newer mobile projectors that use laser LED diodes LEDs is a bit of a just whatever and they led him to a Lea machine later yeah like that only 720p resolution and it's only 700 lumens but I had it projecting an 80 inch image with the curtains open and I could still sit and watch TV nice like the conventional ways of thinking about brightness resolution field of view don't they really the rules don't actually apply in the same way right on all right um I think any pieces yeah a healthy amount of discussion that we've just had there I think everyone will you know you should try and consume or imbibe some type of specialty mind-altering substance to to toast the end of vaunt as we're all very sad about that many people even more sad than I am sadder than I am because it's just a tragic loss for our ecosystem and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be really cranky about that for a while yet I think we're getting to the time we got to wrap up this podcast Dom thank you so much for for joining on this week's show where can people find you around the internets where do you produce and what do you have coming up for for the for your channel so you can find me at mobile underscore Tom on pretty much all important social media Twitter Instagram all that lot you can find my my written works over at mobile Tech Talk code UK where I've just published my p20 Pro review and in the post in there in the pipeline I have my review video for the p20 Pro being edited on the p20 Pro in desktop mode which is one of the things I really wanted to do so when I started getting these phones that could do desktop modes I pledge to write the reviews on the devices themselves and if I can't with a phone that does such good photos and videos at the p20 I wanted to try and up the ante even my wholeheartedly agree that was my Vegas challenge for CES was doing everything from the phone so I'm happy to see more people taking up that challenge and lastly I'm revisiting the BlackBerry motion it's recently gotten a few software updates that have taken this device that was a I mean if you really don't want a keyboard it blackberry by this I guess - a phone that is actually really fast Stella battery life it's totally turned advice around so I think it's only fair that I give that another look so yeah gorgeous alright folks um I want to thank everyone who was watching especially all the people sending us comments shout outs on the the YouTube live stream and the p-n weekly hashtag but we gotta bounce so this episode of the PocketNow weekly has come and gone the show is ending but the conversation continues on Twitter where DOM is at mobile underscore DOM and also check out mobile tech talks and really cool stuff coming your way there Jules is at point Jules and I'm humbly at some gadget guy a pocket now is around the web Twitter Instagram Facebook Google+ YouTube and our home site pocketnow.com were basically everywhere now shows like this cannot exist without your support sharing the weekly with your friends who love mobile technology and dropping reviews anywhere you can review a podcast help us get some new eyeballs on the show because ultimately there wouldn't be a podcast if it weren't for our 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