Gadgetory

post is going live well it we're not live until people's netword of see us we're live in secret hi everyone hi Scott Wow terrible noise yeah yeah you guys literally no like I could die at any second like the Statue of Liberty could come flying through this way where exactly are you in New York right now because I could die too I may have to die first I'm in a hotel in Murray Hill so let's oh whatever my fiance people die together yeah I'm gonna tweak this slank and then we can start tweeting movements already not or the other one tweet the youtube link not their post not the bull don't get to eat the post don't tweet the special plus sign in link thing I don't see the post am I crazy is it it's up where's the post on the front page you're lying to me look for your face but count the number of times have been told that Mellie alright I join it okay i'm gonna start decimal up gentlemen froze yo people sat can we talk all right Mike this camera on me how do I make the camera go me all right keep talking okay here I am hello it's not switching to me what is happening I see you do you see me I just see Ross what I thought a brothel okay I'm just on we can trim this in the beginning hi everybody and welcome to a very special hurricane edition of The Verge cast our studio new york city is closed so we can't go to it I've actually been evacuated from my home which is cool so I'm at a hotel Ross as a mass we flooded at any moment and chris sigler is here hopefully a tornado will hit his home in Chicago well to be okay to be absolutely clear I'm like a few blocks down for me so if I go we're going together yeah and I was on literally the last flight out of New York from Newark last night before they shut down the airport so I'm feeling I should have come with you I don't know I don't know what I was like uh but so this is it this is the second time I've navin evacuated for her uh so i may just apologize to everyone i I'm sorry that I'm like a hotel room like weirdly lit but you can you can sense my panic and fear with me I hope that he do and I'm sitting in front of a window and watching the crazy sideways rain so if something basically if something comes flying through this window and murders me you'll be the first to know and I think that that is truly the verge chaste experience waiting for a murder and then knowing about it that's breaking news that's news as it happened absolutely tweet about that so the reason we wanted to to put on the show even under are constrained circumstances is that today was an absolutely bonkers day of news if you've been paying attention to anything but the hurricane you probably know everybody's going on we wanted to kind of unpack it all a little bit so this morning uh start out with Google when Google is actually going to have it's amazing how many events were cancelled in the city by the hurricane lot and so Google was supposed to have an event today that I was supposed to live blog and reporters are going to go to it may be hundreds of people there but they had to cancel it because the hurricane it was supposed to be held it I pier 38 so that's a terrible place to hold an event and they were scrambling they're trying to find an alternate way to do it and they slightly just couldn't there's no structural way unless they waited out the hurricane for them to make the announcement so they just decided to publish with the blog post so that that one up today it's the nexus 4 was announced running Android 4.2 the nexus 4 dozen of LTE which I have a lot of things to say about but in every other way it's a very high-end device there's a nexus 10 also running Android 4.2 it's a 10 inch tablet made by samsung ridiculous display 12 2560 by 1600 a 300 PPI the crazy display and then you Nexus 7 with 3G connectivity with Nexus 7th mobile right in calling so huge number of ounces there and then later in the day after couple hours after Google Microsoft held its windows from eight event and add some major new features here one is from a which I don't anything about because I was he talked about Google that's why chris is here Chris that's why you're here man what happened yesterday uh so we you know we kind of got a sneak preview of Windows Phone 8 back at that developer event a few months ago and then they went strangely silent for a very long time developers haven't had access to the SDK there have been some weird kind of nebulous PR releases that have come out saying you know these funds are going to be available in the coming weeks but they've been very vague about like what the exact date is going to be and what the prices are going to be what carriers in some cases so today was the day where they they kind of came clean with all that consumer facing information and that leads him to build which is their developer event where they're really going to get into the nitty-gritty details of what developers need to do to target this platform and presumably the SDK will be released there too okay wait wait a second so this is actually I don't think I realize so much so the SDK has been in the dark for a lot of people even up until this day yep yep which is very different than the way they handled both windows phone 7 + 7.5 launches this weekend yes it launches this weekend so so so so to hear Microsoft tell it um eight well if they don't have a story around that really but but what we've heard we've heard some people tell us that there that there really haven't been the metrics to prove that there are there is an advantage to releasing the SDK early in terms of app uptake app availability at product launch and I you know I don't think they're ready with sdk ahead of time I don't think it was in a state where they felt comfortable giving it to everybody and of course there's the concern I mean there's the iOS effect where that's DK comes out early and then everything that's under NDA is like immediately note right because you know right people are talking about it though there was a kinda like me is that is that a terrible trade off to having apps at launch like they was the window Sorna has 120,000 apps which is great they've got pandora they've got facebook twitter is also awesome I didn't want to get back with that later but is that really the best trade-off in May at what point are we going to seeing a huge delusion of apps that come from the SDK coming out now no I agree with you but um keep a couple things in mind for one thing there aren't that many app facing features in Windows Phone 8 that that major apps need to take advantage of in order to target the platform overall meaning like you know I'm trying to think of a good example like Pandora there isn't much in Windows Phone 8 that an app like pandora needs to be successful there's some cool new life ha I'll stuff there's VoIP integration simply which is called a VoIP boy but that's gonna that's going to common type which isn't out yet and then the you know they're able to do things like track location in the background now which they couldn't do before so that'll allow developers to push interesting stuff to your live tiles based on your current location so there are a few things but there's nothing preventing a 7.5 app from being compelling on a point 0 right now and a lot of the apps that i tested look great one notable exception was one password which looks really really terrible on Windows Phone 8 but I I think that might just have to do with the resolution of the screen and the aspect ratio but but by and large is not bad um so I mean they'd have some some big core apps though I feel like the Facebook app looks really nice it's tough to live app functionality right the geode iraq was really nice yeah you know I was um I was looking at Twitter last night I saw maybe a couple days ago i saw eric lin from HTC he switched back from Windows Phone device to an Android device and he was like oh my god I forgot there are apps for everything on Android which is uh yeah the OEM is like Kobe crap there's so much so many more apps for Android uh but you know they've got to make this push I mean this is this is there a moment I will say Microsoft did something really crazy and embarrassing when I had Jessica Alba up on stage I watched that part of the stream and it was so I'm like I'm one of these people but if I see something embarrassing on TV have to turn it off somebody have that you know talking about like something really bad is happening like I commonly cover my ears because I can't take it and Jessica on the mic up Microsoft stage is like it was it was that level of life you know actually terrible I hate to disagree with you know I agree I don't uh it was I mean at one point Joe Belfiore was like so tell us so much like Windows Phone and she was like uh I like Windows Phone I mean if she is it was it was ridiculous now remember you and I have gone to the Sony events where Will Smith has come on stage and shelled for now this is embarrassing too don't get me wrong I wanted total rain terribly embarrassed ranked this properly uh well so Sony is like Sony would have the celebrities come on with sir howard stringer who is like you that man doesn't know how to how to like operate to a script in his like he's constantly just saying whatever he wants so like the celebrities are come out he biked look at you I paid you a lot of money to stand here and that's like hilarious Microsoft does this thing if they do with whether that's like paid actors or not when they have this like hokey like real world it's like they don't know how to interact with each other like human beings would so they hired like a teenager to like write them like a script and they have to follow it like you know so last night i was talking to uh my friend right you were like to that right and i decided to use this app to do this totally normal thing i was gonna do and the other person's like yeah i do that totally normal thing all the time it's like just stop please God and anyway and so but the idea that they would loop jessica alba into that exact type of environment but her totally normal things are like normal things sir jessica alba like i was shooting a movie when my kids tweeted 24 million of my followers by accident and kids connect or whatever that could really help me with that problem it isn't that a totally normal problem that you have I'm like uh no it's not uh I mean no I don't know what you're talking about um I mean that the phone is good I'm sorry Chris substance in problems but I just watched that part and said why do you always do this ya know I I why I think that the notion in general the notion of paying a famous person to talk about your product is is I don't think that works in this business I think that works when you're talking about Gatorade I don't think it works when you're talking about Windows Phone and I think that that's that you know I I don't think they're going to get a return on their investment from that particular higher but I could be wrong um but no so you know I feel like going all the way back to like windows phone 7.5 Microsoft has had this thing we're like you know people complain about there being no apps and they're like what you talking about we have tons of apps what do you want you want to want a camera filter app you want you know and and and just yesterday I came up with three very specific examples which I talked about in the review of apps that I needed well not needed but very strongly desired that I didn't have access to on the 8x that I was testing with a United app because I was stuck in New York with no way to get out and I need to check flight statuses uber because I needed to get the hell out of lower Manhattan and and a real Starbucks app now there are a few like really shady like third-party starbucks apps where you can like enter your card number and then it creates the 2d barcode on the screen but it's not it's not the real deal and speaking of starbucks i want to talk about this because it cracked me up uh-uh so i was i was standing outside my hotel on Wall Street literally on Wall Street and no not on wall street around the corner from old street and i entered starbucks into the maps app it zoomed out to all of Manhattan Island and showed me aight starbucks none of which were within like a 16 block radius of where I was standing when in fact I was actually standing like within walking distance of three starbucks so I know that Microsoft has talked a lot about the fact that we've now using nokia napping technologies in Windows Phone 8 but I'm not seeing the benefits of that yet yeah I mean look we have the devices we're going to be reviewing a bunch then you know I think this is like we were it's same thing we've been saying I think with windows 8 itself it's microsoft is in this like perpetual transition period and if they've hit another end point you know with Windows Phone 8 but they're clearly not there yet and I don't they've got a I think they finally have these foundations to build on and they've got some really nice hardware to show off those foundations and now it's like okay you finally caught up in the way that you said you were going to uh you know you built you know I saying ideas they're five apps in the home screen art like cool uh they've got they've got a lot of work to do to build that platform with something viable against against iOS which now I i think has entered a period of iterative refinement not radical radical change in you know I think this is we can talk about Google a little bit against Google which is doing some crazy stuff danger at 4.2 it has in Google's challenge is filtering that stuff down into the mass market of Android devices and not limiting it to you know nice nice Nexus phones that don't have LTE right that's like I mean there's there's challenges at every part of market but you know Microsoft they brought themselves onto competitive level but they've they've got to work really fast on getting after dollar personally just witness Renee and you know adding some of the stuff to anticipated kind of desperately need yeah we were talking about this on the mobile show last week you know you compare the 920 or the 8x to the Lumia 900 from six months ago and and it's it's a compelling product and if you look at the specs line item by line item you can see that it's a great great product a much better product but convincing somebody that's walking into an AT&T store that this 149 99 Lumia 920 is worth fifty dollars more than the Lumia 900 that you didn't want to buy six months ago a lot of dieter are you in it are you in like a German disco right come what is where are you what is happening I'm here hanging out at the you know the microsoft event there's you know there's the stage that we just live blog from Wow you know I don't know I don't know who that is it's not dieter because he's not wearing deters glasses I yeah what do you guys you not bad huh that's good the hair dear you've got your doing this this floppy I mean you look more like a d like English major who try to steal my girlfriend at every party in college now I'm just I mean let's seal the deal dude are you wearing a cardigan or a sweater vest is myself wearing a cardigan oh nice nice it's good it's good you are you to me off your pants what are you know I was right ear we were just talking on Microsoft you were there what are you revived on the spot impressions what's happening I think that um this is it this feels like the fifteenth time that we've had windows phone 8 announced and I know that this is like the official official announcement and that general consumers you know this is what they're going to see apparently but it there wasn't any like big blow you away moments that the thing that really stood out to me is they showed off rooms and they showed off kids corner and then they brought out Jessica Alba on stage yeah and all three of those things are Microsoft saying look we can't get any of the traditional smartphone buyers we can but we do have a shot with families and it seems like families is dog whistling for like moms basically and we've seen other smartphone manufacturers try and market to moms and failed terribly but they're being much more subtle here and I think they might have you know a chance to maybe you know pick up some like you know real attention with that stuff but I mean it's a relatively small thing and so I don't really think that it's going to you know it's not going to blow anybody away the stuff they announced here they spend most the time we architecting the OS not adding new features right right you know I think that point about we've seen this presentation so many times I mean that's like Joe Belfiore Smoove now is to show up at events and give give the windows phone presentation which is like have you heard of live tiles and it's you gotta you gotta move beyond dan hesse dan seifert is join us I'm trying if you can hear me dad you're danza much more like hurricane you're an upstate New York right writer like your yeah as far as I know you live in like a like a farm you having a windmill that's like going crazy well you know what we're earning all of our electricity right now for the right yeah I like as soon as I connection there we go oh Jesus tom Wow hey are you why don't you just go stand next to dieter are you doing it's ridiculous we're invading zaneta turn more lights on mark out this uh this first pass is quickly gone to like an insane party with like two people at sums dan dan you're killing me man or whatever that noise is Tom are you typing my missus what happens when you try to podcast from hurricane well who's all control Tom do you want to tell us what your thoughts of this Microsoft events were since you're there well we really are there I'm its kind of similar to the how to give the surfaces windows later it's gonna like they they're really doing the whole like consumer marketing play and stuff it's not like new stuff for us and it's like I loved eating my URL right now yeah so yeah I mean if I would've liked to see more apps Instagram well I suppose done and yeah it's fun of so pretty anticlimactic I mean that's what I'm getting is that you guys were there and they showed you a bunch of stuff you've seen you know in so Tom we were discussing the fact that Microsoft has kept kept witness tripping a kind of a secret a long time and they've actually said I've heard yo belfiore I say many times you know we're not showing all of the OS yet we're going to show you all of us later and today they showed what presumably is the entire OS and they've got a handful of features that are new I I think again I think live apps in kids corner like the big ones as far as I data showed her that data data management something that's a carrier enabled so yeah yeah that's not even yeah that's not hitting right now that's hitting down the road private so we really need to know more about that data sense that it is built in but it's not the carriers control it also oh yeah kind of an interesting aspect that we were like that's something we weren't fully aware how they were in but so you put anything which anything else truly new today from Microsoft not really I mean cater to our economy oh you know is it whenever I see somebody with a Windows run from now on I'm taking their phone in a twin kids corner and not telling me that's like good sorry bro neighborhood this thing kills me here's what kills me about kids corner why is it not just a generic guest modes that you can hand your phone to anybody on the street and say you know if they need to make a call if they need to do anything so you don't need to give them access to all your email and your text messages right that inevitably has swear words that um because this is easier to market this is more interesting instead of guest mode it's kids corner and it appeals to families right i mean that's that's the whole bag uh do you know to say your line about a marketing to moms being a complete fail is like it is so true like it's not it's dead it's not a real segment of the market like late because like that's fifty percent of people you know like here's women is a thing like it has never worked for anyone like palm tried it they put the stupid mirror on the back of the pre and are like check it out babe it's a just do like it it's bad it's like there are no features on a smartphone that you can you can actually say to somebody men want this and write that you know you want them on a good fo yeah but so the thing is like Microsoft isn't being ham-fisted about it they're talking about families and you know kids corner and so I don't think it's going to hurt them I think it's just an interesting strategy that they're taking because you know what else can they do right after a trying to find all these different areas where they can try and sell win this one now families the latest over well I'm gonna be working i think that stuff to me that stuff plays better on tablets right because that's its you can give the kid a tab they play with this don't screw with anyhow like like I've handed my phone to my niece and nephew like all the time and they know they want to do one thing they want to play one game they don't wanna like it's like that works for like babies it doesn't work or I'm snapping that it doesn't work for kids are like I want to play like the game that I want I mean I want we'll see how many kids so and I hope I never do our species is due 11 kids blue I'm never I mean like I'm saying I'll use it's a trophy um ok looks actually I think this is really interesting transition to google which right we we read there's Microsoft did a lot of stuff today but a lot of stuff we've seen already and I think Google is the stuff is so new and so crazy even though we questioned it has been leaked but I mean that's you know for example that's one of the features of android 4.2 on tablets is multiple user accounts that you can let's share the tablet and it's like it's such a blindingly good idea to do that for real at the operating system level um you know I think that Google is making a play for like the tablet is a pure consumption device it's like very entertaining because they can't tell the story of the tablet is a laptop replacement which is the story that Microsoft is on the surface the story that Apple is increasingly telling with the ipad and they just can't do it so they're they're much more of the leave it lying around pick it up play with it at different apps and different games and like I think that's very smart um but at the same time you know there to the nexus 10 doesn't have it doesn't have any wireless capabilities doesn't have LTE doesn't even have 3g the nexus 7's 3g but i don't want to pay for 3g on a 7-inch tablet it just doesn't feel right and obviously the nexus 4 dozen LTE so dieter you and i wrote a long piece on the LTE situation when i def wanna do you want to go through it a little bit i think there was some perception that we were in some way trying to explain for google what the problems were uh but that's my intention was to actually point out how deeply fucked up the world is that a company of Google sighs can't make the right decision uh yeah so it's I think google made a huge mistake I want to be a clear that yes i would say they should not have done this and I think if if at the end of the day the only the other bad option for them was produced unlocked ATT LTE handsets and sell them at a loss uh they should have done it and just like lied and said we're out of stock or something rather than like produce like a thousand and like a lot of stock chipsets are too fancy instead of saying we can't do this to me that's where I'm at but the structural problems are are also really intense and really to me just as irritating in anger god yeah I mean basically Google you know they're like we want we want to have the nexus program be about shipping software updates without any carrier intervention period and therefore we can't be on cdma devices i mean this is this is basically the argument that we inferred from from talking to them and okay that's very morally pure stance that you've taken but you know get your hands dirty and talk to the carriers and do what you need to do to get your phone launched and frankly do what Apple has managed to do and get your software updates out there in a more timely fashion the the joke that I made earlier this morning is that it's not so much that it's the nexus 4 it's that it's the Nexus petulance like we basically took its ball and went home and and refuse to do the really dirty crappy scummy work of cutting deals with us wireless carriers to get the phone on the network with LTE instead they're taking the morally pure high ground which is great for people that don't care about LTE don't have LTE in their area or whatever but it makes the phone not feel like a true blanket or pump because it's not because it doesn't avail to eat right and all right I don't think go ahead then well I was just going to say because it's lacking LTE and you know it's being picked up by t-mobile as far as a sales success the thing is essentially dead on arrival because even though it's unlocked you know ATT is not going to sell this phone right I'm not going to sell this phone that's between the two of them in the US that's 200 million users that are going to be exposed to this phone at all oh so like does Google what the Nexus phones to be big sellers or not it seems like they can't decide they seem like they made a real go of it with the the Galaxy Nexus and now they're just like they clearly don't think that they're going to have this thing take over the planet and do they want to sell a ton of these or not I can't I think that they have a very high in mighty view both with the Nexus line and also with Chromebooks that they are you know they think that they are way out of the curve they are several years ahead of the curve in in this in this part of the market where they're not selling devices and maths they're selling devices the way they think that they're supposed to be I mean seriously I've never seen a Chromebook anywhere on the street Nexus is I do see but only because of the verizon galaxy nexus it's not like I see nexus ones every day or Nexus threat wow if you shot nexus ones every day as you like where are you the be fair but but dieter dieter back to your point about getting getting their hands dirty and talking to carriers I think that the answer is not to get their hands dirty and and talk to carriers it's to completely ignore the carrier's go straight to the source of the radios and straight to the sources of the chipsets and and just you know make the phone like yeah do it right well the ATT dieter ATT told you if you bring an LTE phone that supports our bands to us will sell you a sim it'll work maybe there'll be some problems with it all the features might not be enabled bubble hotspot video calling whatever whatever ATT crap we're gonna do we'll do it but at the end of the day you'll get data for you know ninety percent your phone build that phone you know what uh and the thing is LG has already built that up right no they do people yeah so I don't know oh I'm very confused as to why you gotta go dude actually murder you Gladys just came on that's over man seriously like a little British smear robot dropping out of the ceiling over there asking me to run away with him so I gotta go guys think you're the fun idea for that image so now I here's my question to that if your didn't have the LTA chips they did you know your dream scenario how much would it cost like that's a better Chris question i think but i would say it would be 650 700 whatever that's how much you don't mind icon is right right now it's right now it's three hundred dollars unlocked off contract you know you don't have to worry about the carrier stuff it would cost through here dollars more if you put LTE radio trips in there those chips are bonkers expensive Chris I mean you want to get to this a little bit yeah no I mean it's it's it's just a scale thing right and and amateur a chipset maturity thing like these HSP chipsets HSPA chipsets that they're working with now have literally been around for generations and generations of products and they I mean they're they're basically free uh you know the same thing is happening to them now that happened to the GSM edge chipsets five years ago uh and an LTE is not there yet so yeah it would be a big premium but I mean regardless that's a phone that I still think that they need if they if they really want to take the principled stance part of taking that principled stance is making going out on a limb and making that LTE product right now they're they're half-assing it they're they're not taking a principled stance on anything because anyone can make an unlocked HSPA device so what right kool Kris I think if we wanted to have an idea of the price difference between LTE and 9lt we could just take a look at devices on the market that already have like a wire or Wi-Fi only version and an LTE version yeah the iPad it's a hundred and thirty dollar difference on the kindle fire HD the difference between the LTE model the Wi-Fi model i think is over two hundred bucks um so it's it's it's a significant cost factor amazon sells its tablets at cost so if it was not a two-hundred-dollar cost increase it wouldn't be a two-hundred-dollar cost increase for the the kindle fire so it definitely would push the cost higher but like Chris said you know that's where the level of high-end phones are you know that the iphone is over six hundred dollars unlocked the the 920 and the other high ended windows phones are going to be you know in that neighborhood for an unlock device so if Google really wants to have a competing device it you know it's got to put the specs there and if it pushes the drive or pushes the price there so be it right so let's I mean I think we've let me just say this we when so Josh was in San Francisco we did a big feature on the Nexus program it's really great you should you should go see it I dieter to a big feature on google now which we should talk about because it's it's awesome it's really cool now um so you should go look at that stuff but i know that when Josh and dieter found out about no LTE in San Francisco they basically freaked out at Google like this eh to say and then when Google was in New York we were doing some other stuff here Josh and I were talking and we basically freaked out them again and we're like this is this is a huge step back like uh we did a speedtest I have my iphone 5 and LTE josh had his AT&T Galaxy Nexus and they had a nexus for those run a tmobile uh and you know just very informal like kind of you know take this for what it is but my my iphone got 15 megabits down on 18 tlte the tech jobs Galaxy Nexus got like point 02 we're just just sad and the tmobile phone the nexus 4 got four day so it's it's an improvement over what has been terrible Josh first I biology what's up buddy my god latasha hurricane just working yeah my uh mi on the internet you know this is publicly available to be able to put this is over this man the human beings are not shy tweet I should tweet to tell people eat it how's your concert hurricane man um you know I think that this hurricane is been wrongly accused of murder murder for murder that it I could prove it on the night of the that had happened that the this hurricane had it was nowhere near the event the entire east coast of the United States that's right they understand my reference I don't know if this may be a little bit too high level for some of the people in the Hangout chris ziegler I'm kidding you're a wonderful man ah but I was just telling the story of when we were with Google and we did some speed tests on the phones because they were like t-mobile's great yeah and I say my phone got 15 down I have fun with LTE your phone your Galaxy Nexus and 18t got like point O 2 or something really terrible yeah it's really bad and in there in the nexus 4 on tmobile got four down so there's a jump a little bit of a jump if you're on t-mobile but it's nowhere close to LTE and these again these are kind of like second-generation ltd products so the hope is that that network will get even faster where she Mobile's definitely maxed out I so so yeah um it was it's my i actually have just been sitting here on my phone trying to tweak I'm like maybe I'm doing something Robin tweaking my APN settings which by the way is like it's maybe second only to flashing the phone with a bomb in the list of things and I don't want to do with my phone ever like when people are like you were just flash like as soon as they say you can just flash like that like I punch them in the face and run out of the room screaming and care and at the curtain I'm crying and upset there of course injured uh no it's uh yeah i mean III um here's the thing like google has this this story about their here's what I think happened i think i think google is very hurt and mad and disappointed about their experience with the galaxy nexus i think it like they somehow saw this is like getting back at the carriers but the truth is it just makes it just makes them look like bad you know and and they don't really have a good i mean their reasons are like we want to make a phone that you know we have control over basically and the the the thing that isn't the thing that is the problem is that like how come google doesn't have any power yeah right this is in other sales that's why it's samsung has the power rent in the top right nobody buys flagship devices they're just on they just don't sell flagship devices you know right i think when we were reporting on the on one of these injunctions it was like they said what the sales of the galaxy nexus were you never like some infinitesimal number some tiny Samsung's Samsung's most popular handset in the US was the this prepaid phone on boost mobile yeah galaxy prevail they sold like two million of those and nothing else even came close not the galaxy s2 or anything like that yeah I mean I it's just the balance of power through the carrier's is who's going to make us the most money uh and the answer is Samsung it has been samsung and google it's great that Google provides us operating system but that doesn't actually generate any revenue for carriers so it seems like they're not willing to you know and Google with the flagship devices even with the Galaxy Nexus attitude Google Wallet off the phone for verizon they had a preload some other crappy thing for verizon if I remember correctly and Verizon held it back because they wanted to sell the droid razr instead and they held it back for months I you know that's a thing in one October and I the Galaxy Nexus didn't hit until December but I you know I just want to say like we we mentioned i mentioned this in the piece that i did the feature piece about the fact that like when you get right down to it for google it's an economics question they're not going to be able to sell enough of these phones on a carrier to convince a carrier to play ball with them and they can't just like make the phone with LT radios nobody can they can't that's because i'm making for AT&T that's what we're saying look no are you doing operating systems real i understand they can make it for AT&T but economically for them it doesn't make sense for them to make the more expensive LTE device and try to sell you know what a few hundred thousand because they're true yeah but they're trying to the whole thing about this this HSPA move is that they're trying to take a principled stance wait and and the only way they can take a principled stance is by taking that loss by making an HSPA phone nobody's impressed anybody can make an NHS be a phone at this point it's cheap it's easy well what I'm saying if they opt an LG makes the LTE phone the optimus G on ATT has LTE also part of that work has clearly been done right but but I but I think I mean there it is a different phone I mean they have to produce it right and google has to justify it economically they have to be able to say like we can sell enough of these that it makes sense for us to actually spend the money in the time and have our partner spend the money in the time to leave name but but but what I'm saying is they already they have made that justification for the whole of Android right wait either I have a yeah I mean this thing is it's a nightmare I mean look let's forget about let's freak let's not even talk about their reasoning let's talk about what you might I don't know okay go ahead I have a question okay weather so I mean we do we're all on the same page that and you know an off-contract phone in the US with no LTE makes no sense in a country where everyone just gets it on contract anyway what about international yeah I was going to say contractor national this this approach might be very successful in like Europe where like Chris was saying how Google is trying to be years ahead of where everyone else is as far as selling phones if you look at the structure of contracts and carriers in Europe they are already essential years ahead of what we have here in the US so this kind of thing might be very very successful in Europe where there's only you know a smattering of LTE networks in the hand football places so the vast majority of users don't care if it has LTE or not and they buy their phones unlocked anyways all right but if we're looking for a u.s. perspective it's hard to see that no I mean from the US perspective that I think that's the thing is they're just like we're not looking at this from us perspective i'm not i'm not defending them because because this is what I wanted to say next is what is my next phone going to be because I swore to to up so I you know I was juggling the the verizon galaxy nexus and the AT&T galaxy nexus and i wanna i want to have a single phone i do not want to be swapping two phones i do not want to be doing any sim swapping or anything else I want a single phone that will do everything that I wanted to do on LTE what am i buying what am i buying does anybody know my s3 got yes I that's right now you're gonna do it's all about seeing it i won't i won't i won't have another pentile display no no no no the galaxy s3 display is beautiful pen tiles are non issue on gs3 your brilliance as you're saying galaxy s3 yeah so the only thing about the gs3 for you is that it's not stock Android right we were talking about us right ok honest I think I think I'm just gonna get an iphone I mean it's it's you know it's the only it's the only device on the market that is not compromised and so let me know in 20 I mean I actually I mean in all honesty like watching the HTC stuff today in reading the review and reading the windows phone 8 review and just kind of thinking about it you know it is somewhat attractive but I don't know if I'm going to go for if I'm going to get away from the the Android ecosystem i'm going to not use like the best gmail experience and the best calendar experience and a google talk and whatever else like i'm not going to go further away like i'm gonna go to something that you know i feel like i'm gonna end up going to something that I'm more familiar with yeah that's Chris little fun yeah I want to ask you two something cuz like i I've been traffic off I want to stick with Android its 4.2 that much better than 4.1 or should i just go it with what chris says and just get a jellybean s3 um I think that some of the conveniences in in 4.2 are really great i think the new camera stuff is really cool i think the the widget stuff is obviously a really cool feature but i mean is it like deal breaker i mean Samsung's actually made a lot of changes to the software that are some of them are not completely terrible I'm just trying to imagine a world where that is the phone that I use yeah it's not bad uh no actually this actually got I know it seems like you know the defining feature of the nexus 4 is kind of what it doesn't have but what it does have as a phone is actually very impressive it isn't it is a surprisingly nice piece of hardware and I was very unimpressed by all the leaks that we saw all the dashers but having actually held it and play with a little bit the back is really cool it's kind of funny that they made out of glass which is like so cuz I actually you know the more I was thinking about it when we were working on that hands-on post last night Josh the more to me it feels it it has a 5 of a like it like an old high-end blackberry I used to give me yeah where's like very professional executive yeah it's cool and then you flip it over and I like sparkles at you yeah so it's it's that kind of like 1980s executive yeah there's only one not one problem which is it's a horrible lack of LTE yeah with other problems I'm gonna say that was kinda say one more thing and the screen is incredible um it's going from the Galaxy Nexus which is like the phone that I i was gonna switch Andhra that be the phone that I would have gotten and I hate I really really dislike that screen this screen is like it is on par with any other display industry iphone 1x whatever you like whatever whatever nokia is doing at the lumia a 320 dpi is using a new technology so the pixels are closer to the top of the screen it's a FM values in cell touch and this uses GT or so there they've gotten rid of the layer of the screen that were the touch sensor is an integrated it with the actual screen it looked mean it's a it is a very nice phone and it has a great CPU it's got the the Snapdragon s4 so what you're getting for three hundred dollars or whatever it is uh is great but it's missing the thing that you want I think if you live in i think if you live in europe or a place where lt's not deployed it's a it's a really awesome phone I mean I yeah you know I just think it's really hard to accept you know on the other hand uh Apple did this with 3g with the original iphone I'm not saying it's the same justification even though like you know Google is essentially saying sort of similar stuff like battery life and whatever with the iPhone 5 is LTE yeah you're sure about it in the same size batteries previous one like I'm not just answer there I'm not defending I'm just saying that there is some precedent for this stuff but like I mean let's put it this way okay I really would like this to have this phone be my next phone I I'm a you know obviously a big fan of the the newest versions of Android and my gut feeling is no matter how good the phone is no matter how good the software is it's going to be really hard for me to consider going another year with my main phone not having the fastest possible network in America yeah me too seems insane to me because the difference is not like oh I get five on this thing and eight on this thing it's like I get to on this thing and 15 on this thing you know like that's a huge huge difference and so you know they're played for Europe may be fine but it's really really difficult for me to imagine that this is the phone that I stick with for an entire year you know but there's no alternative i mean the alternatives suck like everything about everything i say this in my piece that there that the the double-edged sword of google's openness that you know they work with a lot of people they work they work with a lot of manufacturers they work with a lot of carriers and anybody can take their software make a phone but the double-edge of that is they don't really exert control over any of that stuff you know none of me insane to me that there's not a single device you can't buy a single device with stock Android and LTE except the Galaxy Nexus and that's like always a step behind the actual release it's like it's just crazy to me they can't do one phone that is on their release schedule I remember having a conversation with drew Bamford who is HTC's lead designer for on the software side he's sort of Scott Crayolas counterpart on the software side and and and I asked him why don't you release the stock android device and he said because we want to differentiate we want something that's different and I said well guess what if you release his stock Android device that would be different because nobody does stock Android right right I agree I mean I just think that um so here's the problem look even if HTC releases stock Android device they still aren't going to get updates on schedule I mean for some reason Apple is the only company that has found a way to bully carriers or the force carriers into letting them do what they want I mean and by the way they didn't start this way I mean the iphone the first iphone was not just a a runaway hit in everybody's mind I mean it was a runaway hit but before it was sold it wasn't like all the carriers were going oh yeah this is going to just be yeah yes I vision mission well has it rejected that's right verizon rejected a team's he picked up the scraps and you know of course it was obviously a huge hit and Apple was right what's weird is that nobody can repeat what they're doing you know it's very frustrating I think as an industry to see an industry that is that is hamstrung in this way so Microsoft Oh Microsoft's is their strategy is actually close it's not as good as apples but what they do is they say that carriers can reject individual updates for Windows Phone but if they do so the next time they do pick up an update it will include it will roll up everything in every previous release so ultimately at some point they need to pull the trigger and come up to speed well one thing one thing one thing I will say is that with Windows Phone I mean they've been pretty good about actually getting those updates to the devices I mean my I mean obviously I'm not using every device so i can't speak for every person's experience but i will say that it seems to me that they've they've actually gotten their act together on getting those update and they're not selling phones that are wildly them in their stock you know essentially their stock with like a couple of extra apps and correct me if i'm wrong chris and anybody else can correct me if I'm wrong but my memory is uh you can actually just delete any app you can uninstall any app you don't want it's not like disabling you can just straight-up take it off the phone right on Windows Phone devices yeah so like if you buy an eighteen t phone that's got a bunch of eighteen t carrier branded apps you can just go one by one and uninstalled and cook yeah so I'm actually about to uninstall HTC's included app right now you can see on it while you can see but once augen stall is not grayed out so yeah wow yeah you know I wrote a piece in July right arguing that it's it was like five years after the iphone was announced rk1 on sale uh I feel like that was a moment when it felt like there'd be this huge explosion of innovation in mobile uh it's it particularly with the transition LTE and I think this phone is kind of a breaking point for LTE yeah in terms of making it clear what's happening uh the transition LTE was was hard-fought right you know verizon bought this spectrum at auction from the FCC there were rules in place that required them to make it open the exact phrase was any app any device right think if not allowed to block anything from your 700 right here its LTE Google thought verizon they were in court against each other they're in court with the FCC google had to participate in the auction right because there was like if the price to go to a certain level the rules wouldn't kick in so google was actually bidding on the spectrum to make sure Verizon's price was high enough to trigger the rules well all of this stuff happened this is like a massive story enjoy a lot and it's been completely it's been completely co-opted by Verizon right yeah they have used hey Neil I dailies like funky yeah that just completely drop for a second whatever you want to say a backdrop special miss like what i'm using yeah i'm usually ever honest I find it connects I'm probably being we didn't hear anyone grace said the last ten set 15 12 seconds we're just was very dramatic we all just kind of cut out no I think we were all I think we were all under the impression that we were freezing yeah i thought i was super going oh this i saw a tree fly by my window so i figured i'm sure i was just ranting about verizon and open access and i'm convinced at my my they disclosed rises ye my phone they're pulling a huge switch somewhere that doesn t life it has nilay patel labeled on it they're like geo-targeting you for a shutdown um no but but you're right to your point uh what little is that we heard we know we really are like at this I do i do hope this draw some attention to the fact but like you know it's not just like hey the industry won't let Google do it I mean Google doesn't have the power to do some things they need to do but what is increasingly and constantly crazy to me is that we don't have I mean we just it's like you can't just buy a phone and put it on a network you know explained to me by the way I just want to be clear how many skews does Apple actually make like in terms of the the different rate other different radios in the verizon iphone 5 vs the AT&T iphone 5 what's the breakdown yeah there are so i think i wrote this piece up when the iphone 5 was announced and essentially there's three different model numbers for the iphone 5 there's an AT&T version that has ATT hspa+ support guys guys my back can you hear me yeah yeah uncle news is breaking all over the internet right now that scott forstall is leaving apple next year what what yeah very the chat room is like going insane right well what which is crazy you know what actually I'm not surprised after the maps thing after Cirie be kind of disappointment I'm not surprised as he and kind of yeah I'm reported by bloomberg Scott Forstall leaving Apple next year boy he he fell out in a hurry yeah well yeah Apple's I book above yeah that is crazy yeah once you start issuing a public apologies uh I think your time is up yes uh that's a big big deal Wow kid um that I wonder what those real wifes reactions ha yeah this is interesting we've been talking about this but but I wonder how much of this is um I mean maybe he just wants to retire or leave Apple but there's been a lot of I think heat on him for the map stuff for like the lack of iOS seeming lack of iOS innovation yeah I mean he's the software guy right no so I wonder how much of this is actually blowback I mean match has obviously been a huge embarrassment for apple and and I don't think that any of the other stuff helped I mean I think my biggest negative in the review is like you know I love the phone it's really really good but like software wise development seems to have stalled out yeah you love any lies writing the post right now yeah the sentences this is like we're live it's like live streaming a guy writing it up now just look at me don't forget the roaches who's crazy stair oh uh Neil Athena pretty use a swagger the swagger shot we took from we owe their it is yeah we have yeah we're doing that yeah goodness fire Sean this is good it was just like a live a live stream of something coming together and I just say this can I just point out apple announced this during a hurricane openam it is my view cycle is the day with Google were already announcing something and Mike this one the markets are closed the markets are closed there's a hurricane on is there actually is there actually news wedding they're actually a piece of PR from them or something and I it hit the Bloomberg terminal and then my Twitter explode mm-hmm so I think a press release probably coming forthcoming google google news nothing how does Michael Bloomberg have time to worry about Apple Mayor Bloomberg had to sit there and type this out he got the memo from apple and he's like all right I gotta go do it in the ticker tape and he had a minute I haven't achieved all right here I have an announcement apple today announced on executive management changes will encourage even more collaboration from the company's world cross hardware software and services team as far do these changes Johnny I Bob Mansfield Eddy Cue and Craig federighi will add more responsibility sir rols apple also announced that Scott Forstall be leaving Apple next year and serve as an advisor to so this is what Bob Mansfield did right I think we'd lost you again Jimmy that's okay his he what he had to say wasn't very interesting or important anyhow I'm here I'm do I can hear you I don't you know I guys guys are you like Neil I is gone and we just have to accept that he's not during this hangout all of you are fired and move on with our lives you know what kinda it was gonna say this press release wrong way it's written surprising who's a wonderful man but he just didn't have what it took to date for the hurricane Scott who Scott Forstall Ernie lie he also spiked it off work I don't want to tell you says he's missing due to the hurricane he's been blown away with a lot haha Jeremy uh Eddie will take on the additional responsibility of Syrian maps placing all of our online services in one group Johnny I will provide leadership in directions for human interface cued up they got this thing cued up it's a johnny is a software now yeah Johnny I is that its first software role Wow wait really where is this report Neil I the center because it's a PR it's where aspire yeah it is much I dropped the link in our chat oh I got it I got a kiss is uh there's the only way to this is a massive shake up this is a huge yeah this is this is crazy this is crazy we're uh it was that knee like inner was at me I don't know that was Neil I dropping out again damn it Neil I stopped dropping the mic Neil I I know you got a lot of coins to make but wait wait wait a second John John Browett is leaving Apple and he's only done there since retail so the head just got there he said he got oh shit the head of retail got can this is wait a second this is a vein head of retail have gone also Wow well that you know it wasn't this is like seriously and say are they bringing back the JCPenney guy oh I hope no he's busy or JC Penney dudes look I mean this is like they will pay money they'll throw money to bring him back no here's what it says as Apple's reto organization has an incredible strong network of leaders at the store and regional level who will continue the work that has been done over the past decade to revolutionize retailing with unique innovative strategies for customers uh this is blowing my mind right now like the the Johnny I've human interface stuff is crazy by the way this also puts Johnny I've much much closer to the position that Steve Jobs would have had in the sense that he's like it has an eye on software and hardware as a holistic thing like I think that is a I think that is a pretty monumental piece of news to their I mean to me this is this is this is actually like a much bigger piece of beautiful probably anything else that we reported on today which is ironic because there's a lot of big news what we talked about the fact that Tim Cook is numbers man he's like he's a great seat like a traditional CEO but he is not a visionary in the same sense that Steve Jobs was they've been lacking that and to unify that under Johnny I probably makes a lot of stuff here's a here's a preemption here's a prediction for you soon soon many many good designers and engineers from google will be leaving for new jobs elsewhere yeah that's that's a that's of my prediction cuz like I think that I mean I feel like I've sensibilities are actually a lot more in line with what they've been doing with Android like in terms of design then then what Apple has been doing I mean if you look at Apple hardware like mommy tell me I mean you'd really like if you look at windows phone or android that seems like it's much better match to this like extremely streamline minimal sophisticated hardware then anything they've been doing on the software side I wouldn't be surprised like honestly if if like in some way jobs was a kind of a stickler for some of the some of the stuff that uh you know that I've probably wasn't that into I mean when you think about like the generational gap there because there is a gap and when you think about what Johnny I've brought hardware-wise seems like a different aesthetic in a lot of ways you know anyhow I'm specs Wow yeah i mean i'd say like there's there's the fact of the news and then there's the timing of when it's being delivered that is looking knew they knew we were hanging out and they were like exim off guard about the design of those morrow to right they have two days of market down time to let his news begin what's what's weird what's weird is that Eddy Cue I'm sorry Bob Mansfield left I mean he quit right he retired and it says he's gonna lead a new group called tech called what Neil I Eli's gone isn't it yeah he's just now never know the name of that group um this dramatic pause I can still see his like freeze frame like just looking dead in the camera with his mouth slightly a gape yeah these values about to tell us something quite incredible importance I think of a lot because the weather's still fine i'm actually facing the LA right now he's fine but uh technologies that's the new group technologies all I had to do is read this this newswire release right so what do you know um crazy crazy piece of news yeah just wild any Google Microsoft had a day in the news cycle Apple decides to kick it over for the next 2-3 days how many times is that going to happen this just fall because literally every single time microsoft announces something apple just comes in and like just like cuts them off at their knees when you can be sure that this was not an accident oh yeah and and by the way i if I'm not mistaken I think that's just popped on Apple's yet there we go oh hold on this is different um it's not a little thin no it's the same is it the same yeah yeah exactly same yeah okay so this is a big by the way um yeah this is a huge you this is just not I'm not almost speechless like I'm just trying to take in what this means uh I think this means big big changes for Apple next year in terms of what they're doing in software I mean yes I I just hope this means that we no longer see stitched leather and awful ski morphic ideas maybe there's no way that there's no way that there's no way that this is not going to i think the stitch leather is gonna go yeah it's that's been it's been another like The Trevor at Game Center just need to be like totally rebound if you're if you're a if you're a Johnny I've and you see that stitch leather on your device does it not make you cringe a little bit like you like I you're like I i created a whole new process for putting a screen under glass and you put stitched leather on that screen so i think i think the other thing I've got Williams I doubted me about this it's not only was it Siri in maps our kind of issues but apparently rumor has it Bob Mansfield I hated Scott Forstall so much this is kind of what the carrots the gave Bob to stay you know like Scott's on the way out you should definitely stay with us don't casually retire out yeah interesting well then that makes sense and Bob Mansfield is kind of back in right um but so so Forrestal is leaving immediately or basically like in January I mean there's only a couple of months here it says he's leaving next year and will serve as an adviser to CEO Tim Cook in the interim welcome back meat which means that he's already gone so so four stalls essentially gone according to this and he's serving right now as an advisor to Tim Cook and then he'll be officially gone next year yeah i doubt i doubt that he's actually going to my house nothing it's nothing okay I'll bet you I'll bet you the tip that uh that force call isn't actually doing anything it probably has something to do with like you know options maturity or something I doubt that he's you know he's probably on a beach somewhere who forced all oh you don't think he's actually advising right now he's not sitting next to Tim Cook telling you how to do so today he's probably just some margaritas on the beach with rivers night yeah everybody maybe for Stalin and Rubenstein will start a new phone company together call me rod spring guys guys RF there it is called lounge in the bar and oh yeah Margaritaville yeah it would be a bunch of poorly made devices with terrible ski morphic software I like it because like a device at Oreo it's like me to do an order and then like it Oreos like the pre did and then when you when you Oreo it open it has an Oreo like a premium on the screen which like that is very photorealistic at least get morphic I'm it's a little bit cartoony of course and then you Oreo the oreo and then that's where they are inside dog that's your unlock gestures on doing you get the oreo and something like the cute to have they turn off Wi-Fi you dip it in different oh like strawberry milk and chocolate milk that does different settings think about it just just contemplate that for a moment I want you to really get your head around that idea um I wonder if we need to be doing anything you know site wise while this huge news is breaking can you talk can anybody tell me uh yeah we uh we should we should have a discussion about that i'm not sure if we should be doing it live on the air though i don't think i don't think alive on the air is the way to do it I don't know whose idea this uh this idea this earth this hangout was anyhow I was like it was actually a Michael Shane's idea well Michael Shane is unfortunately now looking for a new job haha we wanted to do we want to do a live yeah we wanted to do a live broadcast for all these announcements like we did for Apple but uh you can't our studio is shut down because of the hurricane uh so this was that josh Josh I think what you meant to say is that Michael Shane is advising Joshua Topolsky until the end of the year yeah that sounds that sounds about right is that that means any hook that's interested yes apparently yeah that's what I'm getting at Rita that's yeah it took almost 39 million that doesn't seem like a lot though if I'm sure it's more than your Scott Forstall I don't know its teeth it is like 40 million dollars that not not for you I mean how much did Tim Cook get when he became CEO there's a there was a number there too um what's that how much it got some like huge stock uh when he became CEO what was that um all right now his Kurt his current total compensation package is 378 million it's not bad yeah that's all I'd say my Twitter stream right now is this insane combination of people freaking out about the hurricane and people freaking out about apple and like I can't tell who is more intensely worried about like the state of the world but it's like here's a picture of here's a picture of Hurricane sandy coming over the East Coast and then sounds like here's a picture of Scott Forstall looking sad so here's here's on the way i'ma talk too much is a Craig federighi my saying that name that name had he's that are doing I yeah he's not doing iOS and I was 10 like he's overseeing portions of both at this point trials for the proof that they're they're combining overtime yeah yeah I think I think we need to hang on one second sorry you guys could keep talking I need to type something into our team Josh needs to yellow words my way to worst worst fucking timing ever right or it's the best fucking timing people get to see behind the scenes of us freaked out hey maybe maybe um is even go ahead it's just funny because you know we there were so much other Google stuff to talk about uh now none of it actually seems very important it's like they put out in your tablet you know what happened Apple fired everyone sorry uh I mean I have to say this is a pretty astounding set of moves especially because the way Apple was set up the way it was telling the story about the company Coast jobs was that it had this deep deep bench of people who could absolutely rely on to carry forward the spirit of Apple like this leadership had been personally selected and trained by jobs to do this thing it's like they're they're carrying down that path but the products that we've seen thus far have been they were products in the pipeline yeah the reporting was the iphone 5s last phone Steve Jobs it like I mean this is a hand in what this is about the future like this is like and I want to put this in perspective there was an article in Bloomberg a couple months ago right after Jobs died and it was like four Sol's the heir apparent it was like four stalls the guy you know um this team was was touted there was this tight-knit team of people that were doing things you know everybody in their place and to have to have blown it apart this majorly is I think says like speaks volumes it either means like I mean it either means things are going to start working in a very different way and working well or they're gonna start working in a very different way and maybe not working that well like I don't know this is like I don't know this is house cleaning or if this is like chaos like that's the question that asked now let's what let's put things in perspective though because this has happened before with Rubinstein it's happened with Fidel uh you know i mean this this isn't without precedent it's without precedent in the post jobs era right right well yeah but the thing within it happened with paper master who came in right they they fought IBM to hire him to they did the antenna for the iphone 4 and they got rid of him that's fine uh and I know it's happened before but I think the level to which they are completely reorganizing their executive ranks has not happened before Jana and you know the thing with Ruby and the thing with uh with Fidel was that they were driven out by Scott Forstall right i mean yeah those are those of it that was the personality clash uh you know that with that with the phone with for Stalin Fidel it was you know they were gonna they were deciding whether to build the phone based on the ipod or yeah they decided one of the build off the ipod or bring down a mac and they went with four stalls let's bring down ls10 uh in that clash like drove Fidel out of the company with Rubinstein he was in charge of like everything for a minute and then iOS became more important and he left the company do you what build a competitor to iOS so that those changes happen but they happened in the sense that like Scott Forstall expanded to fill those voids and that was very clear that that was happening this is like he's leaving and to fill the void of Scott Forstall they have to expand eight people to like to take over all of his jobs up I will say this i'm just looking at this scene this release what's very interesting to me is that Eddy Cue is taking over syrian maps because those are the two I hesitate to call Syria failure uh but those are the tube trouble spots but not a runaway not a runaway success not around those are those are the two like those are big huge splashy launch features for two versions of the US and to think uh yeah so he was he was not loved by the people i mean he made some really boneheaded moves brow it we're talking about ya mates made some really boneheaded move so go ahead i want talk about two things up one to the point earlier you have the bloomberg piece I don't want to discount that this isn't just like a trend like this is just cheap people that quite frankly had it coming I'd to go back to a bloomberg businessweek article here's a quote from it quote some former associates of forestall none of whom would comment of course say he routinely takes credit for collateral successes and a flex blame for mistakes so even if he was on a winning streak he was just so dead so you're saying he did exactly what jobs did yeah exactly job state but he didn't waste like well well well documented well I mean everybody's jobs you know exactly this is look this is four stalls next period I man haha what is his easy if he's rattling its gattling gun apparent there is a you gotta hear because I've got stuff gotta gotta take care of so you guys carry on yeah I ended by the way my house is literally starting to shake with the way the winds getting really bad here so I'm gonna like I am gonna like split in a second but I do want to say I cannot III don't think that we should we should underestimate how big of a deal it is that Jony ive is taking this human what is the exact role the interface interface hmm an interface role I mean which which I I assume will have and I don't know the extent of that role or what it actually covers my guess is that it's going to touch on a bunch of software stuff it makes me frankly very very excited about what Apple may do in the future software wise I there there has not been a new hand on the wheel there for a while and I don't know how much this role is actually in the nuts and bolts of the software but if Johnny ive has a kind of girl that he has anything like what he has in hardware and software we could see a sea change in some of their software some of the other software functions which i think is how quickly do you think you'll take the faux leather out of the calendar app that's all I need to get six months do you think it's two years let me go do this liquid do this way if I were at at Apple right now um you know they very very clever gestures a very good user interface ideas but I would be looking at what people are dreaming I mean some of the stuff that that Google showed us with the camera with this one handed a circular menu that you can reach with just one thumb from anywhere on the screen I mean this stuff is like wild like futuristic new interface ideas and Apple is so far away from that right now they're so they're so locked into what they've created I think that they've got a gigantic opportunity to look around and to innovate on what other people are doing and I mean Johnny ive is a guy who can obviously take up something that is a familiar form and make it very new so uh I i I'm like I'm actually kind of like psyched about this I mean this is a cool weird move I think that it says a lot about what Apple wants to do I think it says that they are hearing I think they're hearing some of the criticisms are obviously not happy with the map situation and some of the other stuff they've gotten hell from the press for and from users and I think that putting Johnny I've in this role means they're taking a different look at it they're taking a different angle which is which is excited I mean I think it's really different I mean I think the interesting too is a any q's now taking maps in Syria he also did mobileme I mean those things are all argue be platform agnostic and Craig is now controlling iOS and i was 10 i mean it's clearly like there's a unification going on not just with the corporate you know personnel but also with the platforms itself yeah right i mean now here's my question Eddy Cue is responsible for itunes right yeah yeah what why is he not going out with forestall here Eddy Cue should have left Apple five years ago why uh because itunes is a flaming pile of garbage yeah it's kind of charge of the app you're not the app he's in charge of the store so basically anything with a server component you mean he used to Eddy Cue yeah yeah yeah I just the stores over which actually makes so that actually makes sense that he would take Syrian maps on the other both infrastructure problems exactly so he's responsible for the front end uh Rob or iTunes App team yeah 24 stores though I mean horse all must have some hand in it right if he's if he's leading the software design for iOS I mean he is right hey right uh and I have to say you know like Eddy Cue has a different vibe to him than any other Apple executive like he's the guy who makes the deals with other people and he's clearly very good at it so you know what Apple needs to improve Syrian maps is they gotta go make the deals right they gotta make deals for better map data or figure out how to hire people to build better map data and with Siri they got to make the deals for additional content sources I'll make the service actually useful on and like you know that's what Eddy Cue does and I've to say he's also my favorite apple presenter because he like what girl shit we did huh it's great he's late playback yeah that's what you're saying all right I guess dear point hey Laura I honestly I gotta go because I think we've there's some hatton that some some I need to batten some hatches here there's there this does seem to be a day that we will not likely forget anytime in the near future I wanna and I want to leave you with with well wishes yeah you guys don't make it it was great knowing you great working with you and I think actually I feel good forestall Josh yeah you wanna you wanna you wanna just take the sound Josh we can wrap this up i think we've exhausted everything how do you hey what would you open it with a song what do you say to that i see it's a verge cast say goodbye to the verge cast yeah okay well that's our verge cast for the week I guess I mean these are weeks is it because it's a special edition verge cast no one next week we'll do a real one next week if the studio is still there yes we do well next week we have our anniversary verge cast do we not yeah I think it's gonna be friday I know if you guys realize this if whoever is you guys not everybody here cuz you guys realize this but but but november first will be our one year a birthday of the verb just crazy so what a way to go out what a month to go out on right I'm so how this routine will kill like okay like you taken we're getting like you know completely destroyed by the hurricane and we had you know they've pretty much news is over now this is the end of technology news as we know yeah yeah I I do i need to do a proper wrap up here you don't have I think we're done we're done they're good it was great hanging out with you guys I really enjoyed i look forward to Arden it ah I hope I survive the night all right thank you everybody for tuning in I know this was a this was hacked together it was a lot of fun all right let's go retinues cry cool you