Gadgetory

Danny it's Josh uh hi how are you oh hi and we have roughly I'm Joe who wrote the article we just sorry we just discovered i just i was in meetings all day and we heard that you were upset about the piece that we wrote and want to get your thoughts on it what you thinking um the main thing is I understand that there's this segment of scammers who calls this whole thing internet marketing and I loved the piece that you're serving it I think that stuff is terrible and just heartbreaking what people get involved with and how people get taken into that sort of tough but there is a much bigger much more long-standing segment called internet marketing that has made up of people who do everything from social media marketing in st owed a third to display advertising they they're all internet marketers they always just under this umbrella term just like you have television marketers of print marketers direct marketers right so i saw that and my you know my entire heart spunk i mean i have an entire site called marketing on this about internet marketing right but like who do use an internet marketer that I mean give me an example of somebody in that industry I don't know you know in on the up-and-up who's an internet marketer some of you described as an internet marketer who is like you know completely on the up-and-up I'm just trying to understand who you're specifically talking about your you've got people who do social media for you right looking media marketing no no we have a guy to have some time we have our editors like man the twitter at hand stuff okay but that's marketing you're running social media account or social media marketing and as part of internet marketing I mean we're we're trying to trying to get our I mean I don't wouldn't call that marketing exactly I mean I'm I see social media as an avenue to reach readers write like when I think of it I'm like if people are on Twitter and see that we have written a story they'll come and read the story and I want that cuz I want people to read the stuff i mean it is we're marketing our content I guess but we're not like we don't pay someone to to get the word out um you might not do that right now but as you grow there's an excellent chance you're going to be doing that or a thing we can do it and engadget I don't think yeah we didn't do it then gadget I mean we had a sales team that's all ads but well but that's advertising when you're selling it on your side and marketing is I'm trying to help people discover our content and sometimes marketing is underpaid which is you know often referred to as paid marketing or so on sometimes it's done through in the marketing world would be called earned marketing everything it sounds weird but it's the idea that you have somehow burned the idea that people were just really mention here so for example a PR firm that helps get an article to me favor I'm doing a really good pitch and you guys know this right you can give it the PR firm fugly marketing right now they can't they can't guarantee that anything to happen to can't force you to do anything but you know the difference between a good PR person who helps you get the information East versus you know some scumbag and comes along picking any cuz if I an ad and it'll go up on the site it doesn't work that way right no no and I sorry go ahead so so you have to discipline of marketing and where where is probably something strange to you is because you know you guys aren't coming at it as thinking about it is marketing but the people who perform these types of things they are marketers people over zag right you know they make the skins are going your phone sorta thing yeah they have people who do both social media marketing and do a search engine optimization yes that is their job they're they're hired to do that sort of stuff right and they think about themselves as marketers sure the ad tech the app that offers that happen is is filled with big companies and small companies of people who are the internet working you know so here's here's my question to you so these guys refer to themselves as internet marketers and yeah I don't see you know what they they what they call what they do they call it internet marketing and in video after video these guys are like become an internet marketer this is how we do internet marketing this is the world of internet marketing you know over and over again they use the phrase so so I guess like I think what you might have and I said this before I feel like what what what we could have done and you know maybe we'll add an addendum to this uh somewhere and I'm not saying I'm not putting words in Joe's mouth because it's his piece Jojo flatly who wrote it is on the line as well but you know I think you're looking you're looking for a paragraph somewhere that said now look there are on the up and up internet people call themselves internet marketers who do real internet marketing that are you know SEO people or marketers that are that are you have real products and get paid real money by real clients to do specific things that are totally on the up and up and repeat exactly and the and these guys call themselves internet marketers but what they really doing is it's a pyramid scheme essentially yeah I mean they're not you know if they're just trying to get rich fast no no more give you stop of people in it you know if I guess the the best equivalent that could say is it's as if somebody is doing a spam email sound right but they're going around saying that they're an email marketer you've got people who are actually doing actual email marketing maintaining email miss for their companies and sending out offers people that they're interacting with so on that that would think oh my god I'm not a spammer that's a completely different person right well but Joe you know but there is a fine line Joe made a good point here and I think that you'll have to agree that there are people who probably see themselves as legit I mean a lot of these guys seem to see themselves as legit and think that they're selling a service and don't actually crap seem to recognize that there that they are spamming you know they are spammers right absolutely oh so i can say is this a much bigger group of people who are actually i think doing legitimate internet marketing that has nothing to do with this scam that has taken that name and what community well so here's my question for you and i think this is something that i'd really like to know and i would like to what is the legit internet marketing community doing if anything or what can they do about these guys co-opting this name the term and the idea of it and the success right because legit in our marketing can be me yes i think you do a search for internet marketing you're not gonna find it's not you're not the first guys you see aren't going to be the up and up the guys you're gonna see are going to be frank kern and he's like then we have better yeah anthony morrison and get rich quick scheme so what is the internet marketing community the legit marketing community doing or what do you think they should they do to combat this you know viola this is the first time I actually encountered them calling them so God this kind of a name I think they really surprised because the last time I was looking at the first two resources stuff on internet marketing probably about months ago and I don't remember running into me they suck at all so you know I don't know if it's just something shifted to this more or recently and or no that's been out there may just have their own but you know this is my first guy going when they're calling missiles internet marketing where does that come from yeah i mean i'm king other people treating an e going why I've never heard of this as well so you know I suppose in part internet marketers out there may not have been doing anything because these paths it's just not really called right right Joe do you do you have a sense of how long they've been actually I mean cuz obviously these businesses coming from sorry are you on a plane right now Danny yeah we're gonna get them like totally Baldwin it's very yet you're gonna get kicked off the play Joe Joe collagen Joe do you know how long they've been using internet marketing specifically or kind of trending towards this well I mean we turned Danny guys once again sorry now check out your good day what we'll do around there were six months ago but I a lot of this material because they keep reusing the same material you see youtube videos for two three four years ago its internet marketing right or and also the skype marketing's like an umbrella turn the stuff is not new honey brother Danny this is ross classy question me um you've read the piece is there anyone that any person or group that we called out that you thought was unfair like in particular people not the term itself but like people organizations we called out no I i just was what threw me off was coming in during the internet marketing was you know think oil because I just had not seemed that term being used at these kinds of scams and I've always seen that term used for legitimate stuff that I know what term is your word for these guys yeah what would you call these guys I mean because what's interesting is that they've definitely been around and doing this for years calling themselves internet make money work at home I mean you know I think I would have to go back I me or Joe right it's not like he knows you know the history of of how that first developed much better than I these kinds of scams hoping to be new maybe the names are changed right and to the degree that the degrees of the article raises awareness of our people who may be actually confusing that internet marketing with you know this broader discipline it with a net marketing that's great I I applaud that it's just that there's no acknowledgement that there's this other kind of internet marketing yeah I think I mean when I first got onto the internet in like nineteen ninety-five iris part of the inet marketing mailing list kriko which that was how we all talk to each other and we were all people who are trying to help everybody else understand how we're going to be getting onto the internet right and and how we were going to be you know marketing websites and how we will get a part of marketing was building why fight for people right you couldn't you know did it that's how far back i know of internet marketing going as a name as a pipe to the internet right that's interesting i mean i think that you know i think i get i get i get what you're saying and i think that there's probably some room for I mean this it feels like the thing is the problem is these guys call themselves internet marketers I think that the idea that it's a blanket that all internet marketers are like these guys is obviously a problem that wasn't the point I don't think that was the point of Joe's peace at all right we were kind of focusing on particular people and stories I can see how yeah we used like what 46 people to kind of as extreme cartoonish illustrations but like not every single person's story not every scammer that every con artists like operates the exact same way not every person that uses their tactics is strictly using their tactics a lot of them are legit what alleged companies buy into that well like part of the problems we have to define term because everybody describes themselves differently and really tries to obfuscate what they're doing so internet marketer was the most universal so that's what we pick I I compare them and you know when I talked to quite a few people in the SEO world in a legit world and they didn't identify themselves as internet marketers they all seem to shy away from that yeah I feel like it does seem like there's a difference between you talk about PR and advertising an SEO the term internet marketing is not a term I've ever associated with I even with your site internet marketing as a phrase is not something that like I think of at all I guess there's this weird disconnect between on your side there's this disconnect between what these guys are and being internet marketing on like the side of the main more mainstream I think there's a disconnect about the idea of internet marketing is a thing at all that this is something you're associated with I mean when you talk about look like somebody run what I'll say is she get over the tech mean you'll see matt has over google expressing the same kind of surprised that I'm having and he has lived in the dirtiest darkest trenches of the internet and if you know if there is nothing terrible he is not seeing about marketing having to run family for her google right and even you seem to be surprised you know what right so I I totally think it's fine that you use that term to apply it to the way that it's being used within those that kind of genre with what those people are saying I just think it would be really helpful to employing that there's this whole other discipline of internet marketing sometimes it's called digital marketing sometimes it's called internet marketing but there are people who do this range of activities and you forget the ways Wikipedia page and explain the sort of stuff know that are composing distinct from the hannan a look at people but actually they were that far off no I mean for all we know Frankie's guys right perfect record by the big hand out of the end of Wikipedia page uh yeah they're busy at it you know what Danny I hear I hear what you're saying I know you're plain and and it's it's you know you probably have to go soon but I'll I hear what you're saying and what you will discuss it i may be there some way you just give me a thousand dollars i can make sure that i'll consult with you gibble we got a package Danny who do you work better with Visa or MasterCard because we want to get you in on the right level American Express so you know in all serious is all joking aside I hear what you're saying I think that's totally legit like what you're saying is like there are there's a segment of people who have a real job and it's not ripping people off and they call they do some of them clearly referred themselves internet marketers or else you wouldn't be upset about this yeah so maybe there's some way that we can clarify that in the piece it may be wondered you know what I mean it may be as simple as saying now look there are there's our legitimate business called internet marketing these guys are not it and maybe we can point to your your post and say Danny Sullivan wrote something you know about the legit internet marketing but this is something else and you yeah go ahead if you want and I I I tone the post channel a little bit so a subset yeah what did you like you refer your dress is all things that project which is a smooth I better insult it's ever been delivered I will say Danny just just really on that one point I will say if you look at us from launch day we've been doing big pieces thought pieces like this that aren't just about like gadgets you know one of our earliest pieces was Joe did this thing on survival condos we've done those long form pieces on rim which is like much more about the business side we've done stuff on art and on music and on culture that are not so you know like this is not a new thing for us this is just an evolution of where I i think i think that features are all great and one of the things that I find interesting is that I think your announcement went out in the new name and everything in November and we launched our marketing hook we launched our marketing land site in the same kind of way that we have long run search engine land which is about search marketing though is that people who do things beyond search engines with internet marketing so we've launched an internet working right this really has nothing to do with this other kind of it right well well well we're gonna know dude I totally hear you on this and I think that we're going to talk about and figure out if there's a way to get that just that clarify that point because I think that the fact is these guys are calling themselves internet marketers and I think it almost helps to to point out that what they think is internet marketing or what they're trying to sell people as internet marketing is clearly not the real business event at marketing so I think that's you know it I think it's a good point and we'll talk about it we'll figure something out I appreciate the time and large things got heated a bit there no it's fine about one last week I was like what no no we're look we don't get we don't get riled up I i I'm actually glad to hear i'm glad we got a chance to talk to you things really interesting to hear the other side of this which is not evident that's the thing it's so crazy that other side is like the voice has been drowned out by these guys when you do a search for internet marketing you don't get Danny Sullivan you don't get that's not the first thing I mean maybe it is you know I don't know where where your site ranks but it really is these guys are drowning out what you know the industry you're talking about is so so maybe it's time I may be time to mount up against these dudes get lawyer up either bad or maybe that if it grows that degree you're gonna have been a larper say hey you know what weird is all workers or something else but they may very well do it this may have woken up a lot of people who have no idea that they were even calling themselves us right it was good be right the clarification be great if you guys decide you want to do it i think that would help and anyways it's good my keys i can't say enough that the piece was was great in exposing this kind of stuff and i think that you would find a ton of the legitimate internet marketers help if you will yeah i want to want to endorse that same sort of thing to say this is crap you know it's just don't let us be able to say it miss you're like oh but you're the same kind of crap III think that was definitely not our goal and and and we can draw a finer line i think pretty easily so Danny thanks so much and have a safe flight wherever you're going and I hope that we talk again soon sounds good okay Kara alright greymouth by